Why doesn't my rifle group?

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  • Опубликовано: 15 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 148

  • @daveb8457
    @daveb8457 Месяц назад +9

    Mark your discussion on paralax adjustment is so important. In my shooting career I've witnessed many, many rifle owners who plainly do not understand what paralax in a rifle scope is. Almost to a man they refer to the paralax adjustment as the focus. Again, great presentation here.

  • @tjfishing2714
    @tjfishing2714 Месяц назад +21

    I restore and fix a lot of Rifles. Had a new 270 that average group was 5 inch ! I tried everything was returned and response was the barrel was the problem. I inspected the barrel and it looked perfect . SO much really great information . Majority of Rifles i get that dont shoot is loose Action screws especially at the front ,the second is the nut behind the but as a wise man once said.😊👍

  • @joshjackson8266
    @joshjackson8266 Месяц назад +9

    Great info Mark. Easy to go down the rabbit hole and make assumptions without checking the basics first. Thanks.

  • @slatsgrobneck7515
    @slatsgrobneck7515 28 дней назад +1

    I recently ran a bore scope through a couple of my rifles and was dismayed at their poor condition. One even has a gouge about a third of the way towards the muzzle. Yet they both shot nice groups. So, I have experienced it when Mark says some barrels in poor condition can still shoot.
    Mark's breadth of knowledge on rifles and shooting is amazing - here he covered ground from the 22LR up to the 30 cal mags, with practical pointers. Thanks for what you do Mark!

  • @georgedreisch2662
    @georgedreisch2662 Месяц назад +10

    Have seen many mil surplus guns with damaged rifling at the muzzle. I’ve attributed it to careless / indifferent cleaning from the muzzle, while in service. Have found cutting the muzzle back approximately 1/4” - 6 mm, and recrowning, improves things…
    Thanks for sharing.
    Cheers

  • @mimikeification
    @mimikeification Месяц назад +1

    I have experienced many "salesman " errors as a range officer of 40+ years. Most of those could be avoided by the shooter being informed. I've shared this video to numerous shooters. Thanks for putting into an easily understood format.

  • @JustplainPete
    @JustplainPete Месяц назад +5

    Great video, as always, Mark.
    From personal experience ( myself and helping others at the range) i have found that the specific part of the target that someone is aiming at can play a large part in group sizes. I tend to use targets with a right angle on them so that i can line the vertical and horizontal lines of the reticle up perfectly for each shot, whereas if shooting at circular targets your point of aim is rarely as "exact".. hope this helps someone
    Cheers 👍

  • @garybalasa3158
    @garybalasa3158 Месяц назад +2

    Working in the trade I have seen them all, you were correct more prevalent in packages, loose action screws, loose mounts, wrong mounts, poorly assembled units especially on Howa packages. Only recently a young guy came to see me saying he just started deer hunting and the rifle couldn't hit a jerry can sized box at 50, when I asked if he sighted it in and with what, he replied the shop at pick up time said all good to go, which he took literally as ready to hunt, so yes there are many reasons and some are poor salesmen who are only there to sell rather than spend an extra 10 minutes to broadly outline what needs to occur prior to going into the field. Not every new shooter has it covered.

  • @briancunningham3283
    @briancunningham3283 Месяц назад +5

    I had a scope mount come loose once due to no locktite. I take all those things with me now in my range bag just in case. Good lesson learned.

  • @paulsimmons5726
    @paulsimmons5726 Месяц назад +4

    Another video filled with great ideas for improving one’s shot groups! I’m glad you mentioned that it could be the shooter; if you’ve checked all the boxes in the gear column, then have a qualified shooter observe your technique while you dry fire and live fire. What feels perfect for practice may not work consistently during live fire.
    When the problem is solved, it’s often something that the shooter rushed through when he/she was checking the details in his kit.
    And above all, patience is a gotta-have item, frustration seldom helps!

  • @billywalker9223
    @billywalker9223 Месяц назад +3

    Excellent coverage of the variables that affect consistency. I'd add that when reassembling a rifle, always torque the bolts to the same number. I've seen rifles that grouped differently after a thorough takedown.

  • @tarmaque
    @tarmaque Месяц назад +5

    Good points. Like we used to say when I used to drag race motorcycles: "Upgrade the operator first!" Often it isn't the rifle. When it is, it's likely something small you didn't think of. Some shooters think that upgrading to a larger caliber will make them a marksman. Unlikely. Magnum shooters often aren't good rimfire shooters, and viceversa. Me, I'm a mediocre marksman with anything. That's on me and my failing body.

  • @chipsterb4946
    @chipsterb4946 Месяц назад +2

    Thank you for the straightforward, common sense approach. I only have one scope with adjustable parallax and honestly didn’t know how to adjust it properly.

  • @davidhandyman7571
    @davidhandyman7571 Месяц назад +5

    As a benchrest shooter, I know that one of the things that messes up my groupings is cant. If the centre of the scope is not exactly over the centre of the bore because I have tilted the rifle, the point of impact will not be the point of aim. A small cant can move the point of impact as much as a couple of inches. It sure wrecks a great day at the range.

  • @Ktjernberg11
    @Ktjernberg11 Месяц назад +2

    Just got another LMT, this one i chambered for 556. Had my expectations in check. They are built for more than just accuracy. Have had very good luck my 762 large frame version, shooting 168gr Norma Diamond line it performs sub centimeter groups at 100 meters. The 556 however would not shoot anything other than 77gr, tried 55-69gr ammo but was literally all over the place. I know I can shoot and had done all my checks and inspections but it really got to me after a few trips to the range. Bullet weight, shape and velocity is one way to find accuracy if everything else is in check. Very happy the 77gr performed well. Thanks for a nice video man!

  • @leonardopertoldi
    @leonardopertoldi Месяц назад +1

    since I saw the video on parallax I have always followed you, greetings from Italy 👏👏👏👏👋👋👋, you are really clear and precise!

  • @randyhavard6084
    @randyhavard6084 Месяц назад +4

    Great information, for me I started having more fun shooting when I quit shooting at a dot on a piece of paper and started shooting steel. Easier not to get caught up on group size shooting steel targets.

    • @markandsamafterwork
      @markandsamafterwork  Месяц назад

      Cheers Randy

    • @snookmeister55
      @snookmeister55 Месяц назад

      I get it, and I intend to start shooting steel too. Paper for precision and steel for fun shooting sounds good to me.

  • @johnmcneil9518
    @johnmcneil9518 Месяц назад +2

    Thanks Mark, great explanation of all the factors that effect accuracy of a rifle much appreciated.

  • @richardofsylmar
    @richardofsylmar Месяц назад +2

    Thank you, Mark. I appreciate all this information.👍

  • @cooeeycobber
    @cooeeycobber Месяц назад +1

    as always...thanks for your great advice. Considered and informative. always learn something from watching your content. cheers

  • @davidhandyman7571
    @davidhandyman7571 Месяц назад +1

    Once again, your wisdom and knowledge is greatly appreciated. Blessings from Th Central West of NSW.

  • @johnknouse8846
    @johnknouse8846 Месяц назад +2

    Going through this now. Took it all down, loc-tited all scope base screws and torqued to spec, torqued scope rings to base and to scope. Took action out of the chassis and torqued it back down. It will shoot the factory match ammo somewhat ok, sub 1” at 100, but I’m so picky that I really would like better! It’s a small step up in recoil, so I’ll be working on better form next.

  • @ghostshadow9046
    @ghostshadow9046 Месяц назад +4

    one week went through 7 scopes, rifle was shooting shotgun pattern owner brought it to mee, fired it and crosshairs moved, returned it exchanged it for another same issue with 4 Leopold's must have had a bad batch, then went through 3 redfields and 80 rounds of 375 ammo to finally get a good scope and get rifle zeroed.

  • @billhendon1017
    @billhendon1017 Месяц назад +3

    Well said! Thanks man !

  • @paulsouth4794
    @paulsouth4794 Месяц назад

    Thanks Mark ,
    Im played with variouse 100gr 6.5SE with a 1:220 twist ( metric) . After a 200 reloads and 3 types of powder I have finally found one recipe that is accurate for one particular bullet type .. ELD-M. With same same same .. the next is the 100gr nosler the same group size yet high to the left .. 103gr OEP shotgun .. Barns 100gr 50mm group ... ELD- VT 30mm group . I find it amazing how different the same bullet weights group .

  • @iancarter1917
    @iancarter1917 Месяц назад

    Thanks Mark, I need to remember this so many times I think wtf I’m doing 😂 and then so often the bipod on the arc rail comes loose, always forget

  • @JohnWilliamsFromBluff
    @JohnWilliamsFromBluff Месяц назад +1

    A friend (not me, honest) was experiencing random flyers in his 22LR. He took it to the gun shop, and found the supressor wasn't screwed on tightly, and was moving slightly every time the rifle was fired! Since then, I always check that on my suppressor!

  • @HammerliFanBoy
    @HammerliFanBoy Месяц назад +3

    I have a Remington 700 in .308 I bought years and years ago. It has never grouped well with any bullet weight, so i just put it at the back of the safe and never shoot it because i have a lot of other rifles that shoot very well. I think the best I have ever gotten out of it was maybe a minute and a half to two minutes. I should probably try to figure it out one of these days...

  • @johnbyrne8024
    @johnbyrne8024 Месяц назад +1

    Your a book of knowledge buddy.. quick one for you,tikka action in .223 24” proof research barrel.. what’s the best weight round for a 1:8 twist at the 600 - 800 yard mark? thanks mark

  • @warbirdflyerF4U
    @warbirdflyerF4U Месяц назад +1

    As a competition bench rust shooterAs a competition bench rest shooter I see many guys not using proper parallax Adjustment and complaining about their groups during matches I use your techniqueand try to teach others and it oftentimes helps them very much thank you for all your information mark 😊

  • @vincentaxm8322
    @vincentaxm8322 Месяц назад +2

    thanks so much for all the great contents!

  • @jonhewitt3
    @jonhewitt3 Месяц назад

    My full power FX Dreamline .22 air rifle, grouping was everywhere! The FX muzzle brake I noticed a small slight silver smudge on the end of the brake. Removed the muzzle brake solved the problem

  • @milboltnut
    @milboltnut Месяц назад

    After you get over the basics from this video, what's acceptable groups? Bedding , (neck tension bolt actions. single shots, etc... no semi auto's only) , COAL and the right powder/bullet, weight combinations. Fliers are part of pressure spikes.

  • @BenchrestMarksman
    @BenchrestMarksman Месяц назад +1

    Great information Mark

  • @peteengard9966
    @peteengard9966 Месяц назад +2

    In 1976 my uncle gave me his 30-06 that he brought back from the second WW. The first shots at the range for me was not too good. I was expecting it to knock me on my butt. It must have taken at least 2 boxes to be comfortable with it enough to group good.

  • @Planeiron
    @Planeiron Месяц назад

    My movements are about .125 to .190 that is my controlled flinch u may say.... some days it's lower lots of people can't see them because they don't have a scope that will tell them your moving, I run most of my scopes at 42x to 48x that's my happy place and I run 1 to 7 oz triggers...Great Vid 👍👍👍👍

  • @mickreading4692
    @mickreading4692 Месяц назад

    Hi Mark thanks for this video it was great and very interesting and informative I've now understand things better so cheers mick

  • @earlunderwoodjr.6766
    @earlunderwoodjr.6766 Месяц назад

    I find that Loctite 222ms is a better choice to use on small screws. It prevents a torqued screw from coming loose, and is recommended for use on fasteners of this size.

  • @webanon
    @webanon Месяц назад

    Thanks Mark. I think my gas gun should be capable of more than I'm getting out of it. I'm going to spend considerable time working with parallax next time I'm at the range. I have trouble adjusting parallax and keeping the rifle steady and on target with a rear squeeze bag.

  • @DanielReyes-hz1qk
    @DanielReyes-hz1qk Месяц назад

    My main struggles grouping wise have been with semi auto rifles, usually coming down to fit between certain pieces and timing of the operating system. For bolt guns quality parts and a good once over with proper torque specs and setup usually does the job for me. I came across one rifle that I ended up swapping barrels on which solved the problem, but I honestly don't know why it wouldn't shoot well with the original barrel. It looked good on the borescope and had a properly sized chamber and a clean looking crown.

  • @CarolusR3x
    @CarolusR3x Месяц назад

    Got myself a swedish m38.
    I noticed that my grouping on opens has taken a nose-dive in the recent weeks simply because I discovered there was something wrong with the cocking piece.
    Basically, I found out that the previous owner had filed down the edges of the cocking-piece block, probably to try and make the trigger a single stage with a lot of pull.
    There's no wall in the trigger pull which I rely on heavily for good grouping at distance.
    The trigger-block and cocking-piece block both just slip off eachother and its unsafe.
    I did a pedersoli drop test (rubber butt pad on the butt stock and drop from a certain height), my rifle went off (dry-fired) from ankle height.
    A bit of a oddball example for the topic at hand, I know.
    But in the end,I guess it pays to know what you're looking at and what things *should* look like in a rifle before you buy it and should help you troubleshoot why your firearm isn't grouping or behaving as it should/how you'd like it to.

  • @scottrobinson7490
    @scottrobinson7490 Месяц назад

    Thanks

  • @ricketywisely7926
    @ricketywisely7926 Месяц назад

    Great Video Mark, I’m having a similar problem with grouping with my Tikka tac A1 .223, Ive been through the process of all the things you described in the video, have only found 1 factory load that works! I reload and can’t get any success yet, just curious what projectiles and powder you used when Sam had the factory barrel on hers a few years back?

    • @markandsamafterwork
      @markandsamafterwork  Месяц назад +1

      Sounds like you have missed something there, we used several loads, no issues, Cheers

  • @elkhuntr2816
    @elkhuntr2816 Месяц назад

    I've had a 90's era browning a-bolt in 7mm rem mag for 20+ years. It has never shot great, probably in the 1.5"-2.0" range shooting factory ammo. Its not a cheap gun, but should I expect to be able to get it down to 1 MOA with factory ammo? I have noticed that nosler partitions with a flat base seem to shoot the best. I am now interested in extending my hunting range out to 500-600 yards. I am debating whether or not I need a new rifle. I would love to keep it, but if it can't shoot 1 MOA, accuracy will be the limiting factor in how far I can ethically shoot. Should I keep working on it or is 1.5" the best I should expect with the older cartridges and rifles? I could get into reloading, but for the same price, I could buy a new rifle.

    • @markandsamafterwork
      @markandsamafterwork  Месяц назад +2

      With a descent scope all rifles (100 year old also) if not worn shoot well, beyond that all the things including (as mentioned) action to stock and rifle set up are relevant, you have to make the fix or new rifle call, or get it to someone who can check for you, Cheers FYI some of the new design chassis' and stocks are simply easier to shoot well...

  • @andreytodorov843
    @andreytodorov843 Месяц назад +1

    Great video again.

  • @howarddittrich157
    @howarddittrich157 Месяц назад

    Great video!

  • @advmotorrad
    @advmotorrad 16 дней назад

    Normaly what is the main parts after cheking stock screws and scope n mounts cheking ...ammo testing after that what do you think we need to chack after that thanks

    • @markandsamafterwork
      @markandsamafterwork  16 дней назад +1

      The nut behind the butt, lol, Cheers

    • @advmotorrad
      @advmotorrad 16 дней назад +1

      @markandsamafterwork lol... 😁 it means i could not understand your video yet let me watch it again sorry my english not that much good ... thnks for your responce

  • @MrAvant123
    @MrAvant123 Месяц назад

    There is a bit of confusion here between grouping and zeroing. An un-zero'd scope should still give you a group. On a brand new barrel I would look at the barrel muzzle crown as soon as I could, as a bad crown can 'flick' rounds as they exit.

  • @daveleigh4359
    @daveleigh4359 Месяц назад

    Don’t forget to check that the telescope is actually good. I once rebarrelled a rifle only to find out the scope was junk. Ouch!

  • @OldBiscuit54
    @OldBiscuit54 Месяц назад +2

    Maybe the block is not tight in the stock....yup...seen it happen....now you have to bed it

  • @earlyriser8998
    @earlyriser8998 Месяц назад +1

    i have had my sights come loose during shoot. Now loctite on everything. I use match grade ammo for zero and stunned by how bad other ammo can be.

  • @darrenkingston9912
    @darrenkingston9912 Месяц назад +1

    I had the wrong barrel twist 222rem 1.14 with
    75g pills wrong went to 40g bt and its happy days

  • @batmantiss
    @batmantiss Месяц назад

    I spent a lot of money chasing a loose scope base

  • @stevepenno6369
    @stevepenno6369 Месяц назад

    Thanks for the info Mark. I wonder have you ever put a Ruger 308 Scout rifle through its paces, do you have an opinion of these rifles ? Kind regards Steve.

    • @markandsamafterwork
      @markandsamafterwork  Месяц назад

      Thanks Steve and no, Cheers

    • @JustplainPete
      @JustplainPete Месяц назад +1

      Hi Steve, I have a ruger scout, but in 556, but have also used a mates in 308 a bunch ( they are the exact same rifle physically, just the 556/223 has a polymer sleeve in the magazine and obviously a different barrel). Great little rifle for all sorts of hunting situations and fun to shoot fast with open sights. Have shot mine out to 700m on steel and around 400m on foxes.
      ***Be aware that they are quite loud due to the short barrel though***

    • @stevepenno6369
      @stevepenno6369 Месяц назад +1

      @@JustplainPete Thanks for your reply Pete, hope all is well in your life. They are an intriging rifle.

  • @lja4429
    @lja4429 Месяц назад

    A retired Oriental action pistol shooter once told me that a gun will shoot anything, but what's it like to eat?

  • @MrHf4l
    @MrHf4l Месяц назад

    Are you saying “fliers” are 100% shooter induced?

    • @markandsamafterwork
      @markandsamafterwork  Месяц назад

      I'm saying the "fliers" is commonly an excuse to explain a miss that may well have been just a bad shot...Cheers

    • @MrHf4l
      @MrHf4l Месяц назад +1

      @@markandsamafterwork I agree. I would argue that a proficient shooter and hand loader knows when a flier is load and/or gun related.
      Good video.

  • @OldBiscuit54
    @OldBiscuit54 Месяц назад +1

    DIAMETER OF BULLET.....yup....seen people load WRONG bullets

  • @rayjames9835
    @rayjames9835 Месяц назад

    🙏

  • @lmbear
    @lmbear Месяц назад

    All my rifles shoot great. The guys that say their rifles shoot like crap, need to look at themselves.... Truth..

  • @heathharry8424
    @heathharry8424 Месяц назад

    action screw torque and barrel free floating, hmm, let's talk about those issues, why Mark should these be new rifle owner issues to solve? New owner didn't cause either of those issues, and w.r.t barrel not free floating, if the rifle is advertised as free floated barrel, it's not a simple fix for the owner, so again, owner should indeed take it back to place of purchase for rectification...

    • @markandsamafterwork
      @markandsamafterwork  Месяц назад

      Rifle requires general maintenance, bolts loosen, things settle and as shooters we need to not only clean but it is our job to keep on top of all this...as for free floating barrel, did I say it was a rifle that had that advertised? Cheers

  • @OldBiscuit54
    @OldBiscuit54 Месяц назад

    Maybe somebody dropped it on the END of the barrel....yup...crown

  • @jeffdege4786
    @jeffdege4786 Месяц назад

    My rifle simply refuses to group, about 70% of the time. But 30% of the time I'm getting single hole groups.
    I'm certain there's something wrong with the rifle...

    • @markandsamafterwork
      @markandsamafterwork  Месяц назад

      Cheers

    • @snookmeister55
      @snookmeister55 Месяц назад

      That's a new one for me, a rifle that sometimes shoots a group. Weird stuff.

    • @jeffdege4786
      @jeffdege4786 Месяц назад

      @@snookmeister55 It has to be the rifle, it couldn't possibly be me...

    • @snookmeister55
      @snookmeister55 Месяц назад

      @jeffdege4786 Dry fire practice might help

  • @KenWhitaker-gj2ox
    @KenWhitaker-gj2ox Месяц назад

    The problem is you can't shoot

  • @LEXxTALIONS
    @LEXxTALIONS Месяц назад

    Hi🫡

  • @Thepigfromthepot
    @Thepigfromthepot Месяц назад

    Again great common sense advice

  • @davidderby436
    @davidderby436 Месяц назад

    Good common sense info, cheers Mark. I'm interested to know if you take copper equilibrium into account, in your cleaning regime?