Thom Browne’s Entire Design Process, From Sketch to Dress | Vogue

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  • Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024

Комментарии • 424

  • @Vogue
    @Vogue  4 года назад +126

    A Common Thread is a storytelling initiative spearheaded by Vogue and in collaboration with the CFDA, to raise both awareness and needed funds for those in the American fashion community who have been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. Follow this link to donate: bit.ly/2JiGs6V

    • @yobroc6616
      @yobroc6616 2 года назад

      You guys suck. Why would you expose us to this lame topic BLM for life

  • @coolkid90xx
    @coolkid90xx 4 года назад +1033

    I think it was so important for him to say “I can’t illustrate” because that could stop a lot of designers

    • @lefat4697
      @lefat4697 4 года назад +25

      ...its to be relateable to equally talentless people that call themselves "designers

    • @pablogonzalez9842
      @pablogonzalez9842 4 года назад +32

      Jeff Newtown well, thats the difference between designers and creative directors

    • @DnGHo3
      @DnGHo3 4 года назад +62

      Jeff Newtown not necessarily. I’m not the best at drawing fashion figures and beautiful illustrations. What I can do it’s draw accurate technical drawings of what I want my garment to look like. What matters is the finished product. I know so many designers who created beautiful drawings, but a lot of them have poor sewing talent and no pattern making skills, it doesn’t make them any less of a designer. That’s not how it works in the real world industry.

    • @pablogonzalez9842
      @pablogonzalez9842 4 года назад +5

      DnGHo3 yeah, each house is a different story. I’m just glad when the directors even show up for fittings lol

    • @pablogonzalez9842
      @pablogonzalez9842 4 года назад +17

      Jeff Newtown I’ve been told McQueen mostly draped. Too bad he wasn’t a designer most times then :c

  • @lilykleiger8239
    @lilykleiger8239 4 года назад +399

    looking at his sketches is like reading another language. how beautiful

  • @jsgracepark
    @jsgracepark 4 года назад +836

    I guess if you’re a designer you’ll probably try and wear the clothes that you’ve designed but there’s something very satisfying about seeing how everyone at Thom Browne is wearing Thom Browne - including Thom himself lol

    • @fionafenty5960
      @fionafenty5960 4 года назад +22

      He needs to go a size up, lmao

    • @indirasharma8750
      @indirasharma8750 4 года назад +37

      @@fionafenty5960 no he doesn't. He's doing his vision. Everything is supposed to be too small.

    • @pablogonzalez9842
      @pablogonzalez9842 4 года назад +12

      Most uncomfortable workwear ever. I ran into a friend who worked there in his "uniform". He looked like a lost child in those clothes.

    • @Sanpedranoazul
      @Sanpedranoazul 4 года назад +1

      @@pablogonzalez9842 I believe so

    • @Alansubocz
      @Alansubocz 4 года назад +2

      indira sharma as in length and being “fitted”. What’s he’s wearing is pulling because
      it’s too tight

  • @tunaaydn2998
    @tunaaydn2998 4 года назад +437

    I was a dresser there! It was the best experience for me! I had goosebumps during the show, thanks Vogue to share his collection vision deeply!

    • @komalkas4512
      @komalkas4512 4 года назад +4

      oh wow id love to be a dresser for the show soon

    • @palindrome02
      @palindrome02 4 года назад +1

      that’s a really interesting job title.

    • @ej7104
      @ej7104 4 года назад +3

      Are runway shows occult rituals for the elite?

    • @temikabutts79
      @temikabutts79 4 года назад +1

      @@ej7104 jinky!!

    • @Null-941
      @Null-941 4 года назад +2

      @@ej7104 Well partially correct. But runway shows ultimately serves to showcase designer's talent and offering opportunities for generating profit.

  • @albertoalonso5796
    @albertoalonso5796 4 года назад +171

    More of these please and thank you

  • @stoneuniko3057
    @stoneuniko3057 4 года назад +75

    The bags. OMG the bags. I want all of them. And his sketch is so funny, but if it works, then it works.

  • @carlyuks
    @carlyuks 4 года назад +239

    He truly is something else. His vision is captivating.

    • @wolfgangk1
      @wolfgangk1 4 года назад +4

      What's in that Kool-Adi you guys are drinking

    • @cliffdariff74
      @cliffdariff74 4 года назад +5

      I can hope you are joking, dear god please be joking.

    • @jackh.3052
      @jackh.3052 4 года назад +1

      @@cliffdariff74 your fricking god joking to u lol

    • @gdubbs680
      @gdubbs680 2 года назад +3

      Delightfully weird with a twist of fall business and a bit of artsyness.
      Kool show.
      I have no idea how some of those pieces would translate into real world. I want a few of those coats though.

  • @honil.
    @honil. 4 года назад +1268

    This is the most crachead sketching idea ive seen

    • @ladybirdronan9924
      @ladybirdronan9924 4 года назад +77

      Ikr. But it all comes down to the actual clothes and garments. I just love his thought process and passion to details.

    • @makylacastellanos5484
      @makylacastellanos5484 4 года назад +3

      Yeezus Season hg h

    • @jamestateIII
      @jamestateIII 3 года назад +37

      Crackhead? How? Everyone has a process. There is no rule that says you must do full renderings. I dont even do that...i do rough sketches in pencil. The idea is that its JUST the idea...NOT the actual product. Ideas are never polished.

    • @justinbodden2682
      @justinbodden2682 2 года назад +4

      lol u bring them sketches to a sample maker you absolutely will go bankrupt

    • @monsieurgolem3392
      @monsieurgolem3392 2 года назад +1

      😅

  • @dominicvanwyck8135
    @dominicvanwyck8135 4 года назад +67

    The grays and reds and blues bring a more serious aspect to the clothes and then the animal bags make it fun and whimsical! Absolutely love this collection

  • @MeganMoon777
    @MeganMoon777 4 года назад +61

    I love this! I love Thom Browne! I studied fine arts and fashion design in college and I did a summer internship at teen vogue. So this so interesting. And to all the people who are judging his sketches no designer in Major house sketches. no one. It’s actually rare to see actual fine art drawings and painting skills in fashion. Not that it’s doesn’t exist but it’s rare

    • @gregdahlen4375
      @gregdahlen4375 4 года назад +1

      if they don't sketch what do they do?

    • @sexaul
      @sexaul 2 года назад

      Did you pretend to have something to say in these comments to simply backdoor brag....lol tragic

    • @orangefruit12
      @orangefruit12 2 года назад +5

      @@sexaul she's just sharing an experience that was meaningful to her. and atleast she's sharing a knowledge that most people outside of fashion dont know of. stay salty kid.

    • @orangefruit12
      @orangefruit12 2 года назад +5

      @@gregdahlen4375 lead the planning/decision making/marketing strategy/organize the finance and marketing department or they could be the visualizer/firector of the collections. We don't really know about fashion since its not just designing and runway its really more than that. The fashion industry is so big that people don't realize that it actually has a lot of job options.

  • @julialowe283
    @julialowe283 Год назад +4

    the conceptualism in his sketches and how he transforms them into his designs is incredible

  • @froggy6595
    @froggy6595 3 года назад +52

    *Sketching* : 0:25
    *Development* : 1:36
    *Fabrication* : 2:52
    *Production* : 3:44
    *Casting* : 4:35
    *Finishing* : 5:18
    *The Show* : 6:15

  • @the_bowiekid
    @the_bowiekid 4 года назад +91

    This proves you don't have to be a perfect illustrator to be a designer. Most designers don't sketch, they have ppl do it for them. #FashionBabe
    Love Thome Brown ! ❤

    • @ladybirdronan9924
      @ladybirdronan9924 4 года назад +8

      Yeah. Because it's always about the idea, vision and the consciousness behind it.

    • @bobbyangelov645
      @bobbyangelov645 4 года назад +1

      Couldn't Agree more with you!

  • @k.ldraws4931
    @k.ldraws4931 4 года назад +15

    I can’t wait graduating this year for getting my BFA in fashion . I love his inspiration and his development process.

  • @jlouutube65
    @jlouutube65 4 года назад +55

    I hope the sketch artist gets as much recognition. Thom Browne is only the conceptual artist. Without the sketch artist there would be no end product.

    • @nub5515
      @nub5515 2 месяца назад

      The pattern maker or the person to sew it all together

  • @incyphe
    @incyphe 4 года назад +5

    This is so inspirational. What a genius. How can something so over the top be also wearable?

  • @arlene7643
    @arlene7643 4 года назад +7

    At first I didn't really understand his sketch, but after seeing the fininal results I do actually! What a great designer! And I love love love those animal bags!

  • @thelasonj
    @thelasonj 2 года назад +3

    🖤🖤🖤 I love to know the thought process of the Designer, start to finish. This is FASCINATING! Wow. This really made my morning. Thank you! 🖤🖤🖤

  • @noeljordanracca723
    @noeljordanracca723 Год назад +2

    You have to credit your pattern cutter/modeliste and seamstress. They’re the one who construct your ideas into final garments.

  •  4 года назад +4

    those bags can STAND ON THEIR OWN LEGS OMGGG

  • @simeonzanechambers2430
    @simeonzanechambers2430 4 года назад +9

    His blazers are beautiful, I could just wear those everyday and nothing else. Thank you Vogue

  • @Tarikkb
    @Tarikkb 4 года назад +36

    I love his designs

  • @annakubiak2302
    @annakubiak2302 9 месяцев назад

    Amazing designer among so many pretenders of one minute fame. His collections are spectacular, artful, innovative and always captivating. His appreciation for beautiful natural fibers and workmanship is so rare among neoprene and pleather. If these types of clothes were more popular, we would not produce so many one season useless clothes that end up in landfills. Total respect !

  • @noaht.994
    @noaht.994 4 года назад +7

    I cannot stress enough how much I love thom Browne red carpet. Thank u

  • @simonespeed7
    @simonespeed7 4 года назад +1

    I would love to attend many of his shows and even be styled by him, Thom Browne is a very unique designer, just incredible

  • @fitznfritz6796
    @fitznfritz6796 4 года назад +15

    Idk who approved this at Vogue but I'm telling you approve more of this content! I thought I was creative this was genius on display, great team, great visual, great production, and yes great design. pure ART

  • @sml945
    @sml945 4 года назад +6

    Hector is just adorable

  • @roospooscreate
    @roospooscreate 2 года назад

    You can feel his gratitude,modesty and humbleness. So evolved.

  • @sanriio9344
    @sanriio9344 4 года назад +77

    I have no idea what to say, have no reason to be here, and don’t care that I’m early, but I’m here. 😂🤷🏾‍♀️

  • @bsusak09
    @bsusak09 2 года назад +2

    This man is a freakin genius

  • @muzica6154
    @muzica6154 4 года назад +137

    Those shorts, tho... he kinda looks like a grown-up in toddler clothes.

    • @alexuemura2353
      @alexuemura2353 4 года назад +14

      Muzica but it’s his signature aesthetic

    • @PHlophe
      @PHlophe 4 года назад +13

      his legs are pretty tho.

    •  4 года назад +5

      He just wants to show of his legs XD

    • @malirabbit6228
      @malirabbit6228 4 года назад +2

      The guy in the band AC/DC !

    • @Len2108
      @Len2108 4 года назад +3

      Getting just a bit long in the tooth for these kiddy costumes.

  • @nfhstudios
    @nfhstudios 4 года назад +113

    ngl those sketches while maybe a nice as a modernistic art piece, are completely unnecessary and don't convey any information whatsoever, AMAZING end product tho hats of to this magician

    • @MP-dy3xd
      @MP-dy3xd 4 года назад +17

      NLD Really? He even explained it lol

    • @jared9727
      @jared9727 4 года назад +32

      They're completely necessary if they consistently lead him to such stellar outcomes.

    • @fionafenty5960
      @fionafenty5960 4 года назад +4

      ah yes ... 8:15 is such a "stellar outfit" Much wow ..

    • @nfhstudios
      @nfhstudios 4 года назад +3

      Jared yes I agree but that’s not what I meant, I meant that if people are coming on this video for tips on how to improve their design process, as I was, this method is very unique to him, It may be necessary for him but unnecessary for literally anyone else in the world doing fashion or design. My first comment was just a harshly worded way of saying that I don’t think this way of sketching a very efficient way of working for most people that’s all. Just my personal opinion 🤷🏽‍♂️

    • @jared9727
      @jared9727 4 года назад +12

      @@nfhstudios Then I'm glad this isn't a tutorial, it's literally titled, "Thom Browne's Entire Design Process."

  • @blakegreene6913
    @blakegreene6913 4 года назад +5

    Those bags are magnificent 😍

  • @sml945
    @sml945 4 года назад +6

    Time flys .... didn’t know TB was doing Ladieswear . Such a genius 😍

  • @theModelpreneur
    @theModelpreneur 4 года назад +4

    I love this!! I feel so inspired to show the world everything in my head!

  • @nub5515
    @nub5515 2 месяца назад

    I find it so intriguing when Famous Designers clearly admit to not knowing how to Sketch, Sew or Create original Patterns and somehow they always relay on the team while becoming a big name Designer that the team creates it all. Its liberating to know you don’t even have to create to be considered a big name fashion designer. Who knew

  • @yaldaboth1889
    @yaldaboth1889 4 года назад +3

    When he said "I can't illustrate" I felt a weight lift off my shoulders

  • @soltySol
    @soltySol 2 года назад +1

    Absolutely mind blowing you're process in design is really awesome. 💯💯

  • @d.w.1986
    @d.w.1986 2 года назад +2

    love, love, love! The attention to the small details is everything. Love seeing Browne's process, thank you!

  • @tinniefresheats888
    @tinniefresheats888 4 года назад +1

    We love and support all that you do for the Fashion Industry.

  • @rayna463
    @rayna463 4 года назад +6

    vogue make more videos like this! love it

  • @MeeDeeMoa23
    @MeeDeeMoa23 4 года назад +1

    Hi, I am a new fan, I love your teaching, in my world isn’t easy to find free education to know or learn, so I am so deeply thanks to you. Cheers!

  • @felipewiedmer1343
    @felipewiedmer1343 4 года назад +4

    As a fashion design student that can't draw very well i love his technique of sketching...
    but as a fashion design student who is *harshly* critiqued by my lack of technique in drawing this is a nightmare.

  • @diannahaskell226
    @diannahaskell226 2 года назад

    I adored the collection and the concept. Thank you for sharing your process. We take advantage of the end result.

  • @kahlevmusic
    @kahlevmusic 2 года назад

    This dude is like right out of a Wes Anderson film. Really living his vision

  • @sjc94941
    @sjc94941 4 года назад

    Thanks Vogue for this great feature..plus the shout out to the fundraiser ...appreciate you’re promoting

  • @mcavery9076
    @mcavery9076 4 года назад +1

    This is such a good series - more designers more more more

  • @Hallelujur
    @Hallelujur 4 года назад +1

    Thank you so much for sharing this beautiful process!

  • @faafafineartist
    @faafafineartist 4 года назад +1

    those bags are awesome

  • @cindyhuang7099
    @cindyhuang7099 4 года назад +2

    Those animals bags are so cute... I'm in love with it 😍

  • @yolodojo
    @yolodojo Месяц назад

    some designs are diabolical but talented

  • @Kiro6666
    @Kiro6666 4 года назад

    I love the skirt w the pleads that look like ties stunning beautiful

  • @katdobay
    @katdobay 2 года назад

    the sketch of the initial concept is so interesting.

  • @chrisosborn7136
    @chrisosborn7136 4 года назад +3

    I love the animal bags!

  • @LaLabutterfly
    @LaLabutterfly 4 года назад +1

    I love it. One of my favourite collections!

  • @michaelofparadise
    @michaelofparadise Год назад

    i love thom browne

  • @kallusedokc646
    @kallusedokc646 4 года назад

    At first I was like wtf , but I came here to get educated. Opening up your mind to different peoples ideas. I can appreciate the time and effort that goes into the end product

  • @haileyfarmer6375
    @haileyfarmer6375 Год назад +2

    “Stay in art school, kids”

  • @bubblebutt4919
    @bubblebutt4919 4 года назад +2

    thank you, NEXT!

  • @TheBrunoJ
    @TheBrunoJ 4 года назад +1

    i love his clothes

  • @TNMUSlC
    @TNMUSlC 3 года назад +2

    His sketch looks like the Pokemon Reggie ruin that you have to read the symbol to unlock them.

  • @Sweetthang9
    @Sweetthang9 Год назад

    More Sketch to Dress! Loved this!

  • @MrSincerity88
    @MrSincerity88 4 года назад +3

    I really hope to be able to afford a suit by him one day.

  • @shaneho4262
    @shaneho4262 2 года назад +2

    Ive always thought that thom brownes clothes are ugly . I still do 😅

  • @fionafenty5960
    @fionafenty5960 4 года назад +47

    If anyone says they understand his sketches you're delusional

  • @cheshirecat7819
    @cheshirecat7819 4 года назад +3

    They walk so smooth... I couldn't even walk in a straight line lol

  • @1amazingj
    @1amazingj 4 года назад +7

    .💛🧡❤💜💚💙
    Love, Love, Love!
    Absolutely Amazing! Love how Thom's mind works. Hector is Absolutely Adorable!

  • @soumyaayaa
    @soumyaayaa 4 года назад +3

    He's a genius ❤

  • @kmm2442
    @kmm2442 2 года назад

    Gets better w time. Uh heaven.

  • @luizfloripa222
    @luizfloripa222 2 года назад

    That black ornament on their heads is clearly a reference to Fellini's runway scene in the film Rome.
    I am just wondering how many people noticed that?

  • @mercedesgarcia5808
    @mercedesgarcia5808 3 месяца назад

    Precioso, un gran diseñador

  • @alayealleyne2162
    @alayealleyne2162 3 года назад

    he is so unique, I love!

  • @thefemmefatale9634
    @thefemmefatale9634 4 года назад +6

    When I was a child I wanted to be a fashion designer but sadly I’m bad at sketching and drawings and I got a lot of ideas running in my head 🤣

    • @gregdahlen4375
      @gregdahlen4375 4 года назад +1

      someone in another comment said the designers at major houses *_don't_* sketch, so maybe you could do it. On my RUclips the comment is a few above yours. Here's what the comment said "I love this! I love Thom Browne! I studied fine arts and fashion design in college and I did a summer internship at teen vogue. So this so interesting. And to all the people who are judging his sketches no designer in Major house sketches. no one. It’s actually rare to see actual fine art drawings and painting skills in fashion. Not that it’s doesn’t exist but it’s rare"
      also, practice makes perfect, so with more practice you would probably get better at sketching and drawing. but that comment is saying a designer doesn't necessarily have to be good at it.

  • @carlontherun
    @carlontherun Год назад

    This video was so instructive

  • @LadyCypher54
    @LadyCypher54 2 года назад

    Just one jacket! That's all I ask for. 😍

  • @therealmvpee
    @therealmvpee 2 года назад

    Cant wait to start my fashion line

  • @Bee-nw6df
    @Bee-nw6df 4 года назад +2

    I love the giraffe!!

  • @rubaidaallen2764
    @rubaidaallen2764 Год назад

    This is so fascinating

  • @Playeszz
    @Playeszz 4 года назад +1

    Loved your designs at Bottega Vennetta!

  • @botanicallyaberry6406
    @botanicallyaberry6406 4 года назад +4

    don't get annoyed at me but I think google's been watching me too much since I'm not even interested in fashion but one of the kpop idols i like is obsessed with this brand and this vid got recommended to me lol
    Anyway, it's fascinating to see his process, he seems to radiate a calm and effortlessly chic vibe that spills into his clothing

  • @murielbelmondo7074
    @murielbelmondo7074 4 года назад +2

    Je me demande qui achète ce genre de vêtements

  • @billierose2005
    @billierose2005 2 года назад

    the animal bags are so cool! I want the bunny and the monkey and honestly all of them 😌

  • @Kiro6666
    @Kiro6666 4 года назад

    I like Tom B. I love the skirts for men and some of the shoes as well

  • @kendelacruz1344
    @kendelacruz1344 4 года назад

    A full of new learning video. Belleza Thom Browne.

  • @goodboybuddy1
    @goodboybuddy1 4 года назад

    Totally interesting and a breath of fresh air

  • @Kiro6666
    @Kiro6666 4 года назад

    The clothes are very expensive expensive but the Fabrics are very defined

  • @belhabelha4819
    @belhabelha4819 4 года назад

    That’s so creative! I love it.

  • @bulanratuparamitha2941
    @bulanratuparamitha2941 4 года назад +2

    Calling Moonbyul, the human thom browne. 😌

  • @jeremiahmason4593
    @jeremiahmason4593 2 года назад

    LOVE LOVE LOVE!!!!

  • @Morli34
    @Morli34 4 года назад

    Yes!!! I LOVE him!

  • @jeromelj1010
    @jeromelj1010 4 года назад

    I enjoyed this immensely

  • @hithere1382
    @hithere1382 4 года назад +2

    He’s a genius. I love him!

  • @nichelledemille2856
    @nichelledemille2856 4 года назад +20

    That looks like something I designed already.
    I always pull my skirt over my breast and wear it as a dress
    Lol...:)))
    😂

    • @lefat4697
      @lefat4697 4 года назад

      "groundbreaking"

  • @Tabascoisamazing
    @Tabascoisamazing 2 года назад

    That’s so cool it’s like a language translation

  • @i1woo
    @i1woo 4 года назад +4

    who would've thought that Noah's ark could actually be a solid concept for a collection and a fashion show, this is brilliant

  • @linneakarlstedt4727
    @linneakarlstedt4727 4 года назад +55

    Okey this is prob the most random comment ever, but becoming a fashion stylist/designer has always been my dream for me, i cant even imagne becoming one WOW. But here i am going to drum roll pleaseee...........................................:.................PHARMACY school literally regretting my whole life. Yup that is true even tho it does not make any sense. But also fashion is my passion and Will always be but iam to scared that iam not good enough:(

    • @grey.j
      @grey.j 4 года назад +11

      Hello random hooman bean, just know that you are enough and will always be enough, no one can say otherwise. Always follow what your heart wants. Never give up even though life seems like it's giving up on you. You can do this 🌹

    • @linneakarlstedt4727
      @linneakarlstedt4727 4 года назад +1

      Faith Jauregui That is so sweet of you. Took every single word that u wrote right to my heart! Hoppfullt i Will be working this out. Thank you🥺

    • @deepraj4620
      @deepraj4620 4 года назад +5

      Aww I feel so bad for you because I went through the same thing. I mean it’s not like I’ve done any majors or stuff but like I’m 17 and just finished junior college and those two years were so depressing coz I was forced into the science stream. But at the end of the day I make myself remember that I’m gonna show em that I can do something w my passion, never loose hope honey. You’re gonna make it, all this social media and unrealistic standards as in teenagers are becoming so famous and rich at such young age really puts a lot of stress on our mental health but you gotta be for yourself. I believe you’ll achieve your dreams one day, don’t let anyone tear you apart. Sending lots of love ❤️

    • @rayna463
      @rayna463 4 года назад +7

      its never too late to change your life- we were blessed with a new day everyday. and definitely don't worry about not being good enough, because not only is passion the key ingredient to success that CAN’T be taught, but every other aspect is a craft that can be learned and developed over time. fashion is no different than any other skill in that sense. passion- thats the hardest part and you got it! go for it. life is too short.

    • @linneakarlstedt4727
      @linneakarlstedt4727 4 года назад +1

      U guys are so sweet omg, literally. Iam mind blown. Just by reading your comments, and u guys are literally strangers to me and you still took the effort to write these swweeet sweet comments. It means a lot to me. You guys are the best thank u.❤️🙏🏽

  • @rikebw
    @rikebw 3 года назад

    I love the cute bag

  • @MassimilianoDeliso
    @MassimilianoDeliso 4 года назад +16

    I think he should definitely learn how to sketch properly, gosh, he has time, he has money, and plus it won’t hurt him better himself!

    • @sammykeogh8318
      @sammykeogh8318 4 года назад +2

      Massimiliano Deliso totally

    • @milosjovic4402
      @milosjovic4402 4 года назад +2

      so true

    • @rikicc7004
      @rikicc7004 4 года назад +2

      Yeah you are right BUT he doesn’t have to if he wanted too he would’ve done it lol that’s how he is and that’s why he’s successful.

    • @claudetalks8708
      @claudetalks8708 4 года назад +3

      He has at least 20 other people hired to do sketches, i think he doesn't need to learn how to sketch "properly"

    • @MassimilianoDeliso
      @MassimilianoDeliso 4 года назад +2

      Forrest Claude to have 20 people to do the job you are paid millions for it is not a good image for a professional and for a brand!

  • @brittanybelo1361
    @brittanybelo1361 4 года назад +1

    You know what would be interesting! If Wes Anderson made a movie about/inspired by Thom Browne🤔

    • @gregdahlen4375
      @gregdahlen4375 4 года назад

      what would be the content or story of the movie?