Every China national day parade in Tiananmen, you see a huge portrait of Sun Yat Sen, the leader who overthrew the Qing empire and later form the KMT . It is not entirely right to say the CCP refuses to recognize KMT role. To them, whether the Mongols, the Manchus or ROC, they are part of Chinese legacy and history . In the past, the CCP is not confident enough to show film that glorify the KMT because of the reality. The reality is they have to face the powerful US during the Cold War which represents another political ideology. Thus any story that do not glorify the opponent is normal. Have u seen US movies glorying the communist in the movie? As China became more confident, it is more relaxed to tell a more accurate side of the role of KMT and if KMT did good for the nation, no problem, make a movie out of it. They are part of the legacies of China too.
At 12:00 the critic on the bottom starts the review saying "The Eight Hundred fetishizes martyrdom" like dude, how can you watch the scene of the soldiers jumping off the building with grenades screaming their names, and say it's glorification?
Vietnamese here. Much the conflict that china and vietnam has been through. I roll my hat salute to the people who made this movie. A great war movie i have seen for a while.
One of the few people on RUclips I've seen to actually give Chiang's strategy credit. Most people like to portray Chiang and the KMT as incompetent and corrupt. And while elements of that certainly did exist, Chiang wasn't just some random politician getting in the way of the war strategy like Hitler did. Chiang led the KMT's war efforts to reunify China and was the head of the Whampoa Military Academy. He certainly knew his stuff. And he made an incredibly smart gamble at Shanghai to divert Japanese forces, bog them down, and garner western support. Despite that, it was still a GAMBLE nonetheless and one that didn't pay off as much or as fast as Chiang needed it to.
Chiang was a truly briliant politician and strategist, one of the best of the time. However when compared to Mao, Chiang often looks like a total idiot, which is too bad because Mao is his equivalent in terms of rank and significance in the civil war.
@@崔莱 Mao simply allowed the nationalists to wear themselves out, kill themselves and destroy themselves out against the Japanese while doing nothing, Mao was not a good strategist but he was in the right place and time basicly when the soviet unión became a massive superpower and helped them to crush the tired and worn out army of the nationalist China, with modern equipment and tanks while the usa was doing nothing to help Chiang kai shek's china until 1949 when it was too late to do nothing
@@soropintoresco9030 That is just so blatantly untrue omg. Where do you even get these ideas from?? I can't even begin to tell you how wrong you are. But for starters. What makes you think that the army of the Nationalists were any different from that of the Communists? THEY ARE ALL CHINESE PEOPLE! It doesn't make sense to say that the Nationalists' army was depleted and battle worn while the Communists have fresh troop, because they all draw from the same population and recruit from the same recruitment pool! You know what, you sound like you lack the most basic understanding of that history. Please read a book (or if you're super lazy, at least read a few articles?)
@@崔莱 the communists never took the war seriously and intentionally placed poorly trained guerilla units to fight while the nationalists and warlords placed millions of men, You can see it in the number of casualties that there were in comparison and in the number of units with the Nationalists having 120 to 122 divisions in 1939 while the Communists hardly contributed with 10
Watched this twice in the cinemas!!! One of my favourite war films and probably the best Chinese film depicting the Sino-Japanese war in recent years. The only other war film on the era that comes to mind in terms of cinematic quality, grittiness and attention to detail is probably the City of Life and Death
Yeah, I feel that for the average western audience, they will just feel that the Chinese generals were inhumanly cruel and didn't value their troops lives, because they won't understand that point.
It sure was a sensitive time period to depict. WWII was the time of the second truce between the KMT and CPC parties, during which people were even allowed to have membership in BOTH parties, some of which rising to high ranks too. There was no civil war during that time for the most part, and the two parties don't see each other as enemies.
It was truly an ambitious movie. Nice to see Westerners reviewing and watching this forgotten history. I'm currently listening to your Pacific War podcasts too. I'm hoping you do a review for more war movies in try future, also curious if what you thought of The Flowers of War (also a great war movie but more focused on civilians and particularly women).
Thank you very much, I am going to be doing a lot more war movie reviews, trying to tie them to the time period that my channel is at. The Flowers of War will be coming up pretty soon ;).
Hi creator, this was a great review, thank you for giving another insight on the movie, for me the eight hundred war movie right now is on the top of the list of Chinese made war movie, have you watch Zhang YiMou Flowers of War? Hopefully you can do a review too, so i can know your opinion, thanks, and keep up the good work!
Heading to Sihang next weekend to check out the memorial. Thanks for the thoughtful review and you’re understanding of the politics of Chinese filmmaking on topics such as these.
I have a lot to learn about modern China, but I am trying to tackle it as I go. Lot of films from China I would like to review like "The Battle at Lake Changjin"
@@ThePacificWarChannel Been living here in Shanghai for 13 years and it’s still a conundrum to me. Regarding Battle of Lake Changjin, I personally was really anticipating it but was very disappointed ultimately. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on it.
At 10:44 those aren't Mitsubishi A6M Zero fighters. The open canopy, fixed landing gear, elliptical wings and twin nose mounted machine guns probably makes them Mitsubishi A5M "Claudes". Also, since this battle occurs in 1937, historically it couldn't have been A6M Zeroes since the Zero's first flight was on April 1, 1940.
Those elite forces were sold out at the really end. What I mean is the 800 was livestreamed by the europeans and americans, when the chinese soliders got in to the settlement, the international settlement sold them to japan for bits of of money. The real thing is worse
2:55 Some people argue that the 88th should not have been annihilated in Shang Hai and that letting the best troops of China be vanquished so early is a strategic mistake, but then again the 88th is not the only German division of China, there is like 5-6 divisions...?
There were indeed a few German trained divisions. What you are saying IS true, but one has to remember Chiang Kai-Shek was risking this in order to win western sympathy. If western powers came to China's side before 1941 it would have drastically changed things. Also losing the divisions was accompanied by losing almost ALL mechanized equipment (tanks/vehicles etc), it was a absolute disaster losing everything they did. Took a long time for China to regain its strength. I really like what you bring up because a lot of my professors at University would make this a classroom discussion ;)
@@ThePacificWarChannel one can say that allowing the 88th to be crushed to such a state where their original 14000 to 800 people is the true mistake in the first place. The 800 man (actually less than 420) division is pretty much destroyed so mind as well fight to the bitter end like the fallen 13200~ish comrades.
Japan was not allied with Germany yet in 1937 as they where not allied until the tripartite pact nor was the Zero in service at the time. Just wanted to let you know about the small error in your review.
@@442dudeathefront hmmm, tricky to say (I myself live in Canada). To my knowledge its not on any official streaming service =/. It is uploaded regularly on RUclips though. I figure since its a box office hit it will make its way to s major streaming service soon.
@@442dudeathefront Hey if you go on youtube, and search up 八佰 copy paste you can find the film. You can also probably find one of lower quality by searching "The Eight Hundred". I also have a google drive link but youtube is prob better.
comment for you. also great battlefield shoot (through battlefield i learnt that i know next to nothing about the backround of the Pacific war so i found your chanel and i am happy of learning more about this terrible yet interesting part of history)
Correction: That is NOT a KMT flag but the flag of the Republic of China (which is Taiwan today). The KMT flag is only the “blue sky & white sun” on the top-left corner without the red background, whereas the ROC flag is with the red background. This is very important because KMT is a political party who overthrew the monarchy and founded the Republic, which is a country. Though they held power for a long time due to wars it had always been KMT’s goal to establish China as a fully-functioning constitutional republic like America. So the distinction between the party and the country is viral. The CCP today has sought to blur the distinction between KMT the party and ROC the country, so that the “civil war” that took place after WWII would appear as a war between two political parties, where in reality it was a coup attempt to overthrow the Republic and establish a new communist totalitarian Soviet state and end the constitution. Of course, they didn’t quite succeed 100% which is why they’re still threatening to attack Taiwan today. The CCP will call the ROC flag “KMT flag” to erase the reality that there was once a republic on Chinese soil and that republic still exists today in Taiwan. Communist China is the one who doesn’t differentiate between the communist party and the country they govern. To them, the party IS the country IS the people. So if you oppose the CCP, you’re anti-China and anti-Chinese. Not true in ROC, where the country is the country, the political party is the political party.
Its a groundbreaking film in a lot of ways for Chinese Cinema. I hope to showcase some more of the history involved with it, there is a lot of interesting stuff!
The Soviet Union sent a General to observe the conflict. It is rumored that the commander of The Battle of Stalingrad used the observation from this conflict to train their troops and strategies to get the upper edge.
Love the review. I appreciate the non-biased “western” approach you have given into reviewing this film. I look forward to seeing more of your videos:)
I really enjoyed it. Many parts were questionable but what movie isn’t? Get beyond the politics and delve into the personal thoughts of these doomed soldiers. What’s it like to know you are facing certain death but you face it with dignity and courage.
Not to sure if the scenes of people on the concession living their day to day lives was suppose to be a Dig at capitalism. I think its more to do with the lack of Unity of the Chinese people during those years. The war was none of their concern cause they resided in the foreign controlled concession. They felt safe and didn't think that the battle across the river concerned them. Reason why we saw the gambling. Also the barring of Chinese Soldiers from entering. Towards the end the mind of the audience watching the battle and struggle of the 88th was won over. The film also did show some of the atrocities committed by the Imperial army, during the Reporter/Informant who visited the Japanese general, we see the Japanese army training and enjoying their down time, in one of the scenes they showed the bayonet practice, where Chinese Prisoners were used as the practice dummy's and in contrast we see a squad playing volleyball on the other side. It also showed how disunited the Chinese forces were and how unprofessional it was compared the Japanese. the 88th being the exception the rest were peasant conscripts gather from all over the place, the dialect spoken is not mandarin but Shanghainese, Fujianese and other dialects. I loved how it portrayed the fact alot just wanted to go home and even the unwillingness to kill, we can see the fanatics of the Imperial army and those less fanatical in the prisoners of war.
John Rabe is very much underrated. His efforts alone saved hundreds of thousands from becoming more victims to the barbaric Nanjing Massacre. After the war, he was cleared of war crime charges but he and his family were reduced to a state of extreme poverty. When survivors of Nanjing learned of his circumstances, on a monthly basis, they would send him and his family food packages, clothes, money, even toys for his children.
I wouldn't imagine the US making a movie about the Soviet Union contribution towards the defeat of the Nazis . Also it's not that surprising to see China glorifying some aspect of the nationalist since many Nationalist soldier actually defected to the Communist side during the civil war. Only the high ranking KMT managed to escape to Taiwan.
Also a thing I just noticed is that at 10:33 the subs says 中華民國 but the English says Chinese Nation. Truth is, 中華民國 means Republic of China. Not sure because of internal censorship that they hope non Chinese audience will not catch it or whatever it is. To let them shout Republic of China in a patriotic way is very sensitive in its own
In the movie they didn’t say 中华民国 but 中华民族, if you pay close attention to the subtitle shown in this video the font of 中华民国 is different. I think the subtitle shown in this video was doctored
Commented for your rating pleasure. :) One note I did not hear here...how were the various sides visually depicted for accuracy? for comparison, Thin Red Line has been described as depicting Japanese Pacific army most accurately up til then; in terms of uniforms, construction styles, signs & calls etc.
In Chinese Cinema to be pretty blunt, the depiction of Imperial Japanese is...pretty hilarious, like subhuman stuff for many years, but in this film they were "guys just doing their job" so to speak, so I find as far as Chinese Cinema goes it was pretty good. For the KMT, I found they accurately portrayed them, uniforms were exact, weapons, everything looked the way it should.
@@Peoples_Republic_of_Cotati Well cause this film is about the defense of the Sihang Warehouse they get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to equipment. The defenders had the best equipment the 88th frontliners had: Chian Kai-Shek Rifle, Hanyang 88's, the Stahlhelm's, even Gas masks and gas canisters. When one of KMT shoots at the Japanese A5M's hes using a Czech ZB vz.26 which is also accurate. The Imperial Japanese are shown with pretty standard equipment, like Arisaka rifles. Its hard to confirm sometimes, but by eye ball I think they did a pretty good job. I did a little digging and found an interesting article that specifically looks into this: daydaynews.cc/en/entertainment/775090.html
This is the review I was looking for. Didn’t want to waste my money a purely inaccurate Chinese propaganda. Thanks for the honest review I’ll go watch it now 👍🏽
Lately in mainland China ironically unlike in Taiwan they have been glorifying and cleaning the names of many members of the Kuomintang and the Kuomintang itself, including Chiang Kai Shek, shown today in the Chinese media more as a person confused and manipulated by his advisers in instead of an enemy of the Chinese homeland, and even the communists have in some ways appropriated the history of the kuomintang by putting statues of them and saying that they were from the kuomintang and descended from them, basically a cultural appropriation in addition to appealing to nationalism Chinese, ironically different from what happens in Taiwan today where the kuomintang and its figures are demonized curious XD
This movie confused me so much. I would say I have a good knowledge of history. But it confused me why China would make movie about the KMT while they are kind of their archenemies. I didn't understood why the KMT were swinging red flags instead of the KMT ones since the red flag would be the flag of the communists. And I do not understand why todays government of china would kind of glorify their enemies. but at the same time censor the flags in the movie? I really like this movie and your video helped me to understand it better but I can't see what really is behind the politics of this movie.
Mainland China wants to takeover Taiwan via politics. Making lukewarm films showing "good aspects" of their enemy helps ease Taiwenese population into possibly going along with it. Just an opinion.
Compared to other Sino-Japanese Conflict war movies out of China its definitely better quality but the historical accuracy is absolutely pitiful. Obviously no research was done to show things like IJA assaulting the warehouse when it was a 100% IJN operation. The grenadiers jumping to their death from the warehouse is also a postwar fabrication. Its not present in period news reports or memoirs and the Japanese didnt sustain enough casualties to support it.
Yet, in the actual battle, only 10 Chinese soldiers died and 37 were wounded, but in the film you can count many more than those numbers. And at the end, it gives the feeling that all of them died, when it wasn't the case...
Same like in other base on true events war movies. Movie shows hundreds or even thousands killed. Real event, not even a dozen. Just look at the movie Lone Survivor. Lol
I condemn those historians whom have the stupidity to posit that the extraordinary courage of the 452 defenders "enraged the Japanese, thus leading to the Rape of Nanking". What about the Rape of Manila, Starvation of 2 Million Vietnamese, the Japanese sadistic human experimentation, + even cannibalism during WW II? Japanese aggression in Asia began long before the Marco Polo Bridge Incident, + probably even before the 1895 Japanese assassination of Empress Myeongseong. There is no explanation, let along rationalization, for the depraved, worst than animal behavior, of the Japanese officers + soldiers during their ravage of Asia. Unfortunately, the Truman Administration protected the war criminal Hirohito + thousand more other Japanese war criminals from prosecution. Millions of Asians today, are still waiting for justice to be served.
@@pevlez but this is through a historical perspective. Accepting the ROC as historical fact shouldn’t surprise anyone. It’s still a movie that’s heavy with Chinese nationalism. You should not be surprised it got by censors.
Times of change, mate. You should wonder how this film didn't get past the censorship in Taiwan. Lately the DPP government has really been trying to cut the people off their Chinese identity and paint the Japanese as the good guys in WWII...
An important part of Chinese resistance to Japan from 1937 to 1942 was mostly by KMT. In comparison to CCP, the KMT suffered 9-10x more casualties and were instrumental in stopping the major Japanese offensive campaigns throughout the era. It was true they had to suffer large numbers of casualties in order to do so, but that was the price to pay and they paid.
Wikipedia says de defence of the Warehouse cost the Chinese defenders 10 killed and 37 wounded .... This film seems to me slightly exaggerated. City of Life and Death 2009 is better and more honest Chinese film.
It is indeed a complete fabrication with no basis on the real events. In fact only one Japanese sailor (not soldier as the IJA wasn't involved) died in the effort to take the warehouse.
The movie couldn't even get uniforms right. only officers wore olive drab (Different shade than the one in the movie) , enlisted men wore a khaki-ish uniform during the summer and blue-gray in winter. Yang Huiming didn't swim across the river to deliver the flag, she just walked there. The only thing good is the Japanese infantry tactics and military terms spoken by both sides are accurate. The plot is way off from the actual historical events. The historical accuracy of that movie is a crime, uniforms, equipment, tactics, layout and timeline as well as Japanese attack waves were wrong. The telephone was delivered to the warehouse by a distant cousin of Mao Zedong, an operative for BIS , Wen Qiang and not some random Sichuan gangsta. The bridge was under English jurisdiction, IJA weren't shooting at the bridge during the retreat of NRA troops, north, south were all under the jurisdiction of International Concessions so it was impossible for Japanese to set up machineguns from Xizang North Road east of the warehouse, they were shot at when exiting the warehouse, and battalion commander Yang Ruifu had to order a suppressing fire. which knocked out one of the Japanese spotlights , Xie Jinyuan wasn't the actual commander either, it's mainly Yang Ruifu the battalion commander, Xie was there to supervise the action. 3/10. If you are not treating it as a history themed movie it's "OK" quality.
It does raise the question if China wouldn't be better off accepting Taiwanese independence. That way they could turn Taiwan into an independent ally, similar to pre-2019 Hong Kong. They can still invade it in the future if the opportunity presents itself, but until then the siege mentality wouldn't offer many gains.
I can't pretend to know enough as a westerner to really say anything, but it is hard for me to imagine Taiwan not remaining independent. The PRC and Taiwan are both very distinct nations now =/.
@@ThePacificWarChannel The KMT nowadays is in favor of reunification with the mainland. In Beijing I've met many people from Taipei working and studying there and in their opinion, Beijing is their second home after Taipei. It is the same country but for the geopolitical manipulation of the US and it's allies and its attempts at social engineering a " different people" on the island. One has just to wait for this "new" puppet pro-independant party to be voted out, and once KMT is back in power in the Island of Taiwan, reunification will seem closer than now. FYI, in the mid 2010's the CPC and the KMT held a number of important meetings of recognition and respect and both have the consensus that they must unify the land. This, of course, you will only find out once you are in China or you meet young members of the KMT. They will most definitely talk about the eventual reunification with the mainland. The global media downplays this information because they need to create consensus in western countries to keep China divided and thereby guarantee fat military contracts with the islanders. Try talking negative things about the KMT in Beijing, and you will immediately be interrupted and silenced by those hearing you, after all KMT is now the ally of the mainlanders in the ongoing process of reunification.
The problem is, the CCP is in a very precarious situation. Political stability in a nation of 1.4 billion is a very difficult process, and the official admittance that the CCP failed to unify China and accepts that parts of China aren't under it's rule, it would only further democratize China and lead to further independence efforts in places like Xinjiang and Tibet
A government that actively abandons its territory and promise to the people? Nah, that would only set off a revolution within China, with the Communists being kicked out and the new government back to where the CPC is right now.
@@dvf1736 I would suggest you to take a trip to China and especially Xinjiang and Tibet, talk to the locals, observe surroundings, then make the judgement yourself.
What did you think of this gritty and heroic war movie review? Let us know in the comments down below!
Great review dudes
@@shinsenshogun900 danke schön
I thought it was typical of CCP war movies. Unrealistic, inaccurate, racists and stupid. It is cheap propaganda wrap in ultra-nationalism.
@@andrewphillips8341 You must lack self awareness of war films made in the west who are guilty of all the above.
What's the name of other movie.
Every China national day parade in Tiananmen, you see a huge portrait of Sun Yat Sen, the leader who overthrew the Qing empire and later form the KMT . It is not entirely right to say the CCP refuses to recognize KMT role. To them, whether the Mongols, the Manchus or ROC, they are part of Chinese legacy and history . In the past, the CCP is not confident enough to show film that glorify the KMT because of the reality. The reality is they have to face the powerful US during the Cold War which represents another political ideology. Thus any story that do not glorify the opponent is normal. Have u seen US movies glorying the communist in the movie? As China became more confident, it is more relaxed to tell a more accurate side of the role of KMT and if KMT did good for the nation, no problem, make a movie out of it. They are part of the legacies of China too.
@USERZ123 Never heard of the Red Scare movies did ya?
@@d3vilmaycry25
Yea, they pretty suck and does nothing good beside creating McCarthy Schizophrenia.
@USERZ123 that is also a relatively more modern movie and wasn't that british? American cinema and culture still has a a lot of red scare elements
孙中山先生是现代中国国父
At 12:00 the critic on the bottom starts the review saying "The Eight Hundred fetishizes martyrdom" like dude, how can you watch the scene of the soldiers jumping off the building with grenades screaming their names, and say it's glorification?
Vietnamese here. Much the conflict that china and vietnam has been through. I roll my hat salute to the people who made this movie. A great war movie i have seen for a while.
1:42. I'm the person who made that digitalized artwork for the 88D, nice to see that in the videe.
Awesome job on it!
@@ThePacificWarChannel Thank you so much!
One of the few people on RUclips I've seen to actually give Chiang's strategy credit. Most people like to portray Chiang and the KMT as incompetent and corrupt. And while elements of that certainly did exist, Chiang wasn't just some random politician getting in the way of the war strategy like Hitler did. Chiang led the KMT's war efforts to reunify China and was the head of the Whampoa Military Academy. He certainly knew his stuff. And he made an incredibly smart gamble at Shanghai to divert Japanese forces, bog them down, and garner western support. Despite that, it was still a GAMBLE nonetheless and one that didn't pay off as much or as fast as Chiang needed it to.
Its actually alexander von faulkenhausen’s strategy, not chiang’s. Faulkenhausen laid out the entire war plan for china
Chiang was a truly briliant politician and strategist, one of the best of the time. However when compared to Mao, Chiang often looks like a total idiot, which is too bad because Mao is his equivalent in terms of rank and significance in the civil war.
@@崔莱 Mao simply allowed the nationalists to wear themselves out, kill themselves and destroy themselves out against the Japanese while doing nothing, Mao was not a good strategist but he was in the right place and time basicly when the soviet unión became a massive superpower and helped them to crush the tired and worn out army of the nationalist China, with modern equipment and tanks while the usa was doing nothing to help Chiang kai shek's china until 1949 when it was too late to do nothing
@@soropintoresco9030 That is just so blatantly untrue omg. Where do you even get these ideas from?? I can't even begin to tell you how wrong you are. But for starters. What makes you think that the army of the Nationalists were any different from that of the Communists? THEY ARE ALL CHINESE PEOPLE! It doesn't make sense to say that the Nationalists' army was depleted and battle worn while the Communists have fresh troop, because they all draw from the same population and recruit from the same recruitment pool!
You know what, you sound like you lack the most basic understanding of that history. Please read a book (or if you're super lazy, at least read a few articles?)
@@崔莱 the communists never took the war seriously and intentionally placed poorly trained guerilla units to fight while the nationalists and warlords placed millions of men, You can see it in the number of casualties that there were in comparison and in the number of units with the Nationalists having 120 to 122 divisions in 1939 while the Communists hardly contributed with 10
He had to record the audio for this video in our closet because our two parrots would not stop screaming XD!
What parrots do you have?
Lmao, my cockatoo likes to scream when I'm on the phone.
Watched this twice in the cinemas!!! One of my favourite war films and probably the best Chinese film depicting the Sino-Japanese war in recent years. The only other war film on the era that comes to mind in terms of cinematic quality, grittiness and attention to detail is probably the City of Life and Death
I totally agree! I was really surprised by the quality of the film and how they portrayed the KMT forces!
Same! I watched it twice too. It’s such a great film, the sound effects and all in the IMAX cinema is awesome.
Yes I agree, both “Nanking! City of life and death” and “the 800” are incredibly good chinese war Films
They’re one of my top films of all time
Very good note of how China glorifies the group over the individual.
I found it was lost on a lot of critics
Yeah, I feel that for the average western audience, they will just feel that the Chinese generals were inhumanly cruel and didn't value their troops lives, because they won't understand that point.
People misunderstand what the CHinese people want and the communist party want.
@@ThePacificWarChannel I think a lot of critics and average movie watchers don't understand war movie style changes from country to country.
7:23 Uh, the Japanese and Germans were not allies yet in 1937, because the Germans still supplied and trained the Chinese Narionalists
ur videos ar actually amazing u a great ytber with great audio quali can't belive u only have 4600 subs...
Thank you! It means a lot to me =)!
It sure was a sensitive time period to depict. WWII was the time of the second truce between the KMT and CPC parties, during which people were even allowed to have membership in BOTH parties, some of which rising to high ranks too. There was no civil war during that time for the most part, and the two parties don't see each other as enemies.
Really nice review, great job!
Thanks a ton!
Fantastic video! This is certainly a bold step forward for Chinese cinema. Can’t wait to see the film myself!
It is worth it, really interesting film and a ton of war action
It was truly an ambitious movie. Nice to see Westerners reviewing and watching this forgotten history. I'm currently listening to your Pacific War podcasts too. I'm hoping you do a review for more war movies in try future, also curious if what you thought of The Flowers of War (also a great war movie but more focused on civilians and particularly women).
Thank you very much, I am going to be doing a lot more war movie reviews, trying to tie them to the time period that my channel is at. The Flowers of War will be coming up pretty soon ;).
This movie is so bloody great - I'm not the biggest fan of the KMT but none the less it is good to see multiple perspectives.
Hi creator, this was a great review, thank you for giving another insight on the movie, for me the eight hundred war movie right now is on the top of the list of Chinese made war movie, have you watch Zhang YiMou Flowers of War? Hopefully you can do a review too, so i can know your opinion, thanks, and keep up the good work!
Thank you so much, I have seen Zhang YiMou Flowers of War! It will definitely be reviewed!
Great video. I stayed for the whole thing! Thanks for sharing. Subscribed too! I’m looking forward to checking out more of your stuff!
Thank you so much means a lot!
Heading to Sihang next weekend to check out the memorial. Thanks for the thoughtful review and you’re understanding of the politics of Chinese filmmaking on topics such as these.
I have a lot to learn about modern China, but I am trying to tackle it as I go. Lot of films from China I would like to review like "The Battle at Lake Changjin"
@@ThePacificWarChannel Been living here in Shanghai for 13 years and it’s still a conundrum to me. Regarding Battle of Lake Changjin, I personally was really anticipating it but was very disappointed ultimately. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on it.
Great review
Watching this before i watch the movie for the added historical context. Thanks for the vid and being respectful when talking about this.
I just watched this film, thank you so much for explaining the history. #Subscribed
Thanks means a lot!
i thought a lot of these scenes were made up, thanks for letting me know that many of them were actually based on facts.
At 10:44 those aren't Mitsubishi A6M Zero fighters. The open canopy, fixed landing gear, elliptical wings and twin nose mounted machine guns probably makes them Mitsubishi A5M "Claudes".
Also, since this battle occurs in 1937, historically it couldn't have been A6M Zeroes since the Zero's first flight was on April 1, 1940.
Correct, I made a foolish mistake on that one!
Well, the subtitles stated “A5M” too
interesting thanks for the video!
Those elite forces were sold out at the really end. What I mean is the 800 was livestreamed by the europeans and americans, when the chinese soliders got in to the settlement, the international settlement sold them to japan for bits of of money. The real thing is worse
yup
The KMT flag was never shown. It is the flag of China under KMT control. Although I think that makes it even more impressive.
It’s the ROC/Taiwan flag I’m pretty sure
2:55 Some people argue that the 88th should not have been annihilated in Shang Hai and that letting the best troops of China be vanquished so early is a strategic mistake, but then again the 88th is not the only German division of China, there is like 5-6 divisions...?
There were indeed a few German trained divisions. What you are saying IS true, but one has to remember Chiang Kai-Shek was risking this in order to win western sympathy. If western powers came to China's side before 1941 it would have drastically changed things. Also losing the divisions was accompanied by losing almost ALL mechanized equipment (tanks/vehicles etc), it was a absolute disaster losing everything they did. Took a long time for China to regain its strength. I really like what you bring up because a lot of my professors at University would make this a classroom discussion ;)
@@ThePacificWarChannel one can say that allowing the 88th to be crushed to such a state where their original 14000 to 800 people is the true mistake in the first place. The 800 man (actually less than 420) division is pretty much destroyed so mind as well fight to the bitter end like the fallen 13200~ish comrades.
In lower profile TV series, the protagonist frequently happens to be a NRA soldier if the setting is in a battle where only the NRA participated.
Japan was not allied with Germany yet in 1937 as they where not allied until the tripartite pact nor was the Zero in service at the time. Just wanted to let you know about the small error in your review.
You are absolutely right Germany and Japan officially allied in 1940, but there was a quasi relationship during this time
@@ThePacificWarChannel if I may ask where can I find a legal way to watch this film?
@@442dudeathefront hmmm, tricky to say (I myself live in Canada). To my knowledge its not on any official streaming service =/. It is uploaded regularly on RUclips though. I figure since its a box office hit it will make its way to s major streaming service soon.
@@442dudeathefront Hey if you go on youtube, and search up 八佰 copy paste you can find the film. You can also probably find one of lower quality by searching "The Eight Hundred". I also have a google drive link but youtube is prob better.
@@442dudeathefront I just searched for it (the eight hundred) on youtube and found it
comment for you. also great battlefield shoot (through battlefield i learnt that i know next to nothing about the backround of the Pacific war so i found your chanel and i am happy of learning more about this terrible yet interesting part of history)
Correction: That is NOT a KMT flag but the flag of the Republic of China (which is Taiwan today). The KMT flag is only the “blue sky & white sun” on the top-left corner without the red background, whereas the ROC flag is with the red background. This is very important because KMT is a political party who overthrew the monarchy and founded the Republic, which is a country. Though they held power for a long time due to wars it had always been KMT’s goal to establish China as a fully-functioning constitutional republic like America. So the distinction between the party and the country is viral. The CCP today has sought to blur the distinction between KMT the party and ROC the country, so that the “civil war” that took place after WWII would appear as a war between two political parties, where in reality it was a coup attempt to overthrow the Republic and establish a new communist totalitarian Soviet state and end the constitution. Of course, they didn’t quite succeed 100% which is why they’re still threatening to attack Taiwan today. The CCP will call the ROC flag “KMT flag” to erase the reality that there was once a republic on Chinese soil and that republic still exists today in Taiwan. Communist China is the one who doesn’t differentiate between the communist party and the country they govern. To them, the party IS the country IS the people. So if you oppose the CCP, you’re anti-China and anti-Chinese. Not true in ROC, where the country is the country, the political party is the political party.
Watched the film in preparation for this show...Looking forward to your insights.
Its a groundbreaking film in a lot of ways for Chinese Cinema. I hope to showcase some more of the history involved with it, there is a lot of interesting stuff!
The Soviet Union sent a General to observe the conflict. It is rumored that the commander of The Battle of Stalingrad used the observation from this conflict to train their troops and strategies to get the upper edge.
Love the review. I appreciate the non-biased “western” approach you have given into reviewing this film. I look forward to seeing more of your videos:)
Another fact about the flag raising scene: You can hear the Kuomintangs anthem during the scene. Granted its changed a bit to avoid censorship
The point of not having a main character, tell me who is the main character in a war? Any war?
Nice podcast hope this helps
I really enjoyed it. Many parts were questionable but what movie isn’t?
Get beyond the politics and delve into the personal thoughts of these doomed soldiers. What’s it like to know you are facing certain death but you face it with dignity and courage.
Not to sure if the scenes of people on the concession living their day to day lives was suppose to be a Dig at capitalism.
I think its more to do with the lack of Unity of the Chinese people during those years. The war was none of their concern cause they resided in the foreign controlled concession. They felt safe and didn't think that the battle across the river concerned them. Reason why we saw the gambling. Also the barring of Chinese Soldiers from entering.
Towards the end the mind of the audience watching the battle and struggle of the 88th was won over.
The film also did show some of the atrocities committed by the Imperial army, during the Reporter/Informant who visited the Japanese general, we see the Japanese army training and enjoying their down time, in one of the scenes they showed the bayonet practice, where Chinese Prisoners were used as the practice dummy's and in contrast we see a squad playing volleyball on the other side.
It also showed how disunited the Chinese forces were and how unprofessional it was compared the Japanese. the 88th being the exception the rest were peasant conscripts gather from all over the place, the dialect spoken is not mandarin but Shanghainese, Fujianese and other dialects.
I loved how it portrayed the fact alot just wanted to go home and even the unwillingness to kill, we can see the fanatics of the Imperial army and those less fanatical in the prisoners of war.
John Rabe is very much underrated. His efforts alone saved hundreds of thousands from becoming more victims to the barbaric Nanjing Massacre. After the war, he was cleared of war crime charges but he and his family were reduced to a state of extreme poverty. When survivors of Nanjing learned of his circumstances, on a monthly basis, they would send him and his family food packages, clothes, money, even toys for his children.
Yes bless John Rabe for saving my people he is a true hero✊
All are hero's never be forget,the history are reminding us,and the history will also not forgot the hero's ❤️
I wouldn't imagine the US making a movie about the Soviet Union contribution towards the defeat of the Nazis . Also it's not that surprising to see China glorifying some aspect of the nationalist since many Nationalist soldier actually defected to the Communist side during the civil war. Only the high ranking KMT managed to escape to Taiwan.
Enemy At The Gates was literally Soviet propaganda made into a Hollywood movie.
I will definitely watch this movie. It sounds very worthwhile.
3:45 I think you meant to say the 88th division?
Yes haha, just checked. Wow not sure why I said regiment there
Here to comment. 5 months late. :)
Good movie though. Nice to see Chinese cinema moving in this direction.
I can watch this movie over and over .....
Also a thing I just noticed is that at 10:33 the subs says 中華民國 but the English says Chinese Nation. Truth is, 中華民國 means Republic of China. Not sure because of internal censorship that they hope non Chinese audience will not catch it or whatever it is. To let them shout Republic of China in a patriotic way is very sensitive in its own
In the movie they didn’t say 中华民国 but 中华民族, if you pay close attention to the subtitle shown in this video the font of 中华民国 is different. I think the subtitle shown in this video was doctored
loved this movie
I like this.
Nicely done
The german inspired troops in this movie was very interesting... great review
This is a fair review
Thank you,
Could you cover the Japanese invasion of South East Asia? The worst British disaster of ww2 occurred on the island of Singapore
I will be covering the entire asia-pacific war 1931-1945 ;).
wheres the movie link???
I am surprised most westerners cannot differentiate ROC and PRC. Even their own history, sometimes they have no idea as well. Tragic.
Commented for your rating pleasure. :)
One note I did not hear here...how were the various sides visually depicted for accuracy? for comparison, Thin Red Line has been described as depicting Japanese Pacific army most accurately up til then; in terms of uniforms, construction styles, signs & calls etc.
In Chinese Cinema to be pretty blunt, the depiction of Imperial Japanese is...pretty hilarious, like subhuman stuff for many years, but in this film they were "guys just doing their job" so to speak, so I find as far as Chinese Cinema goes it was pretty good. For the KMT, I found they accurately portrayed them, uniforms were exact, weapons, everything looked the way it should.
@@ThePacificWarChannel I got that in your video, so this is more of a technical representation question than an inspirational one.
@@Peoples_Republic_of_Cotati Well cause this film is about the defense of the Sihang Warehouse they get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to equipment. The defenders had the best equipment the 88th frontliners had: Chian Kai-Shek Rifle, Hanyang 88's, the Stahlhelm's, even Gas masks and gas canisters. When one of KMT shoots at the Japanese A5M's hes using a Czech ZB vz.26 which is also accurate. The Imperial Japanese are shown with pretty standard equipment, like Arisaka rifles. Its hard to confirm sometimes, but by eye ball I think they did a pretty good job.
I did a little digging and found an interesting article that specifically looks into this:
daydaynews.cc/en/entertainment/775090.html
This is the review I was looking for. Didn’t want to waste my money a purely inaccurate Chinese propaganda. Thanks for the honest review I’ll go watch it now 👍🏽
no link in description....
this film has a best war scene ım ever watch ( japan raid in nıght and lıghts up scene so intense fıght )
I think that battle is not Chinese Stalingrad, I think China is the Eastern Stalingrad
Lately in mainland China ironically unlike in Taiwan they have been glorifying and cleaning the names of many members of the Kuomintang and the Kuomintang itself, including Chiang Kai Shek, shown today in the Chinese media more as a person confused and manipulated by his advisers in instead of an enemy of the Chinese homeland, and even the communists have in some ways appropriated the history of the kuomintang by putting statues of them and saying that they were from the kuomintang and descended from them, basically a cultural appropriation in addition to appealing to nationalism Chinese, ironically different from what happens in Taiwan today where the kuomintang and its figures are demonized curious XD
The Suicide scene cried me🥺
This movie confused me so much. I would say I have a good knowledge of history. But it confused me why China would make movie about the KMT while they are kind of their archenemies. I didn't understood why the KMT were swinging red flags instead of the KMT ones since the red flag would be the flag of the communists. And I do not understand why todays government of china would kind of glorify their enemies. but at the same time censor the flags in the movie?
I really like this movie and your video helped me to understand it better but I can't see what really is behind the politics of this movie.
Mainland China wants to takeover Taiwan via politics. Making lukewarm films showing "good aspects" of their enemy helps ease Taiwenese population into possibly going along with it. Just an opinion.
Compared to other Sino-Japanese Conflict war movies out of China its definitely better quality but the historical accuracy is absolutely pitiful. Obviously no research was done to show things like IJA assaulting the warehouse when it was a 100% IJN operation. The grenadiers jumping to their death from the warehouse is also a postwar fabrication. Its not present in period news reports or memoirs and the Japanese didnt sustain enough casualties to support it.
Cool
True but notice they never fully, prominently displayed the flag.
Its crazy how deep it goes with this stuff. I try to imagine the censorship guys on set whose job is solely to hunt out these details lol
WHERE DO YOU FIND THE FUCKING MOVIE
Yet, in the actual battle, only 10 Chinese soldiers died and 37 were wounded, but in the film you can count many more than those numbers. And at the end, it gives the feeling that all of them died, when it wasn't the case...
Same like in other base on true events war movies. Movie shows hundreds or even thousands killed. Real event, not even a dozen.
Just look at the movie Lone Survivor.
Lol
Lol I know right🤣
I condemn those historians whom have the stupidity to posit that the extraordinary courage of the 452 defenders
"enraged the Japanese, thus leading to the Rape of Nanking". What about the Rape of Manila, Starvation of 2
Million Vietnamese, the Japanese sadistic human experimentation, + even cannibalism during WW II?
Japanese aggression in Asia began long before the Marco Polo Bridge Incident, + probably even before the 1895
Japanese assassination of Empress Myeongseong.
There is no explanation, let along rationalization, for the depraved, worst than animal behavior, of the Japanese
officers + soldiers during their ravage of Asia.
Unfortunately, the Truman Administration protected the war criminal Hirohito + thousand more other Japanese
war criminals from prosecution. Millions of Asians today, are still waiting for justice to be served.
Ahuh
Inshallah the 800 will all go to valhalla
I still wonder how this film got past the CCP censors
Because it’s a propaganda piece promoting Chinese nationalism.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 yeah except for the fact that is nationalism for the ROC which the current goverment censores heavily
@@pevlez but this is through a historical perspective. Accepting the ROC as historical fact shouldn’t surprise anyone. It’s still a movie that’s heavy with Chinese nationalism. You should not be surprised it got by censors.
Times of change, mate. You should wonder how this film didn't get past the censorship in Taiwan. Lately the DPP government has really been trying to cut the people off their Chinese identity and paint the Japanese as the good guys in WWII...
@@byhyew yeah it may be because most Taiwanese no longer see themselves as Chinesd
An important part of Chinese resistance to Japan from 1937 to 1942 was mostly by KMT. In comparison to CCP, the KMT suffered 9-10x more casualties and were instrumental in stopping the major Japanese offensive campaigns throughout the era.
It was true they had to suffer large numbers of casualties in order to do so, but that was the price to pay and they paid.
Wikipedia says de defence of the Warehouse cost the Chinese defenders 10 killed and 37 wounded .... This film seems to me slightly exaggerated. City of Life and Death 2009 is better and more honest Chinese film.
It is indeed a complete fabrication with no basis on the real events. In fact only one Japanese sailor (not soldier as the IJA wasn't involved) died in the effort to take the warehouse.
@@austin9988wow I didn’t know sailors had guns, tanks and wore the same uniforms as soldiers!
meoow
Felt like it was tailored more to the taiwanese
Actually no, tailored to realist and overall Chinese.
The movie couldn't even get uniforms right. only officers wore olive drab (Different shade than the one in the movie)
, enlisted men wore a khaki-ish uniform during the summer and blue-gray in winter. Yang Huiming didn't swim across the river to deliver the flag, she just walked there. The only thing good is the Japanese infantry tactics
and military terms spoken by both sides are accurate. The plot is way off from the actual historical events. The historical accuracy of that movie is a crime, uniforms, equipment, tactics, layout and timeline as well as Japanese attack waves were wrong. The telephone was delivered to the warehouse by a distant cousin of Mao Zedong, an operative for BIS
, Wen Qiang and not some random Sichuan gangsta. The bridge was under English jurisdiction, IJA weren't shooting at the bridge during the retreat of NRA troops, north, south were all under the jurisdiction of International Concessions so it was impossible for Japanese to set up machineguns from Xizang North Road east of the warehouse, they were shot at when exiting the warehouse, and battalion commander Yang Ruifu had to order a suppressing fire. which knocked out one of the Japanese spotlights
, Xie Jinyuan wasn't the actual commander either, it's mainly Yang Ruifu the battalion commander, Xie was there to supervise the action. 3/10. If you are not treating it as a history themed movie it's "OK" quality.
It’s almost like this is a nationalist propaganda movie not an accurate retelling of history. Who knew?
13:12 the chiese govermnet disagrees
every depiction of Americans is ridiculous. The blimp is laughably too much!
lol
It does raise the question if China wouldn't be better off accepting Taiwanese independence. That way they could turn Taiwan into an independent ally, similar to pre-2019 Hong Kong. They can still invade it in the future if the opportunity presents itself, but until then the siege mentality wouldn't offer many gains.
I can't pretend to know enough as a westerner to really say anything, but it is hard for me to imagine Taiwan not remaining independent. The PRC and Taiwan are both very distinct nations now =/.
@@ThePacificWarChannel The KMT nowadays is in favor of reunification with the mainland. In Beijing I've met many people from Taipei working and studying there and in their opinion, Beijing is their second home after Taipei. It is the same country but for the geopolitical manipulation of the US and it's allies and its attempts at social engineering a " different people" on the island. One has just to wait for this "new" puppet pro-independant party to be voted out, and once KMT is back in power in the Island of Taiwan, reunification will seem closer than now. FYI, in the mid 2010's the CPC and the KMT held a number of important meetings of recognition and respect and both have the consensus that they must unify the land. This, of course, you will only find out once you are in China or you meet young members of the KMT. They will most definitely talk about the eventual reunification with the mainland. The global media downplays this information because they need to create consensus in western countries to keep China divided and thereby guarantee fat military contracts with the islanders. Try talking negative things about the KMT in Beijing, and you will immediately be interrupted and silenced by those hearing you, after all KMT is now the ally of the mainlanders in the ongoing process of reunification.
The problem is, the CCP is in a very precarious situation. Political stability in a nation of 1.4 billion is a very difficult process, and the official admittance that the CCP failed to unify China and accepts that parts of China aren't under it's rule, it would only further democratize China and lead to further independence efforts in places like Xinjiang and Tibet
A government that actively abandons its territory and promise to the people? Nah, that would only set off a revolution within China, with the Communists being kicked out and the new government back to where the CPC is right now.
@@dvf1736
I would suggest you to take a trip to China and especially Xinjiang and Tibet, talk to the locals, observe surroundings, then make the judgement yourself.