Building A 409 From The Block Up - HorsePower S12, E10
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Since the early days of the Beach Boys, the fabled 409 has been considered a mysterious, landmark motor. For the first time ever, HorsePower builds one from the block up, revealing some of the fascinating features of this powerplant along the way.
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PARTS USED IN THIS EPISODE:
Air-Ride Technologies: Front Strong Arm system with Shockwave tubular upper and lower control arms, lower crosshafts, bushings, ball joints, Shockwave airbags, and all necessary fasteners and bracketry, rear Strong Arm system with tubular upper arm, lower control arms, adjustable panhard bar, Airsprings, shocks and all necessary fasteners and bracketry.
ARP: Rod bolts, main bolts, accessory kit.
Comp Cams: Roller camshaft and roller lifter set, 1.7 ratio rocker arms.
Denso: Iridium Tip performance spark plugs.
Doug's Headers: Chevy passenger car header '58-'64 full size Chevy ceramic coated.
Eagle Specialty Products: Chevy 409 crank 4340 steel, 6.135 rods with ESP armor coating.
Edelbrock: 348/409 W-Series Chevy street high-performance aluminum cylinder heads, cylinder head bolts.
Edelbrock: 600cfm manual choke carbs, fuel pressure regulator, electric fuel pump 160 gph, 2x4 linkage, dual quad fuel lines, polished filter.
Edelbrock: Chevrolet 348/409 W-series V8 Performer RPM dual-quad aluminum intake manifold.
Edelbrock: Classic aluminum valve covers with black finish.
Edelbrock: Edelbrock high performance aluminum water pump standard rotation.
Edelbrock: Large Oval Cast Air Cleaner for Dual-Quads with 2.4" element, black finish.
Edelbrock: Oil filler tube.
Federal-Mogul Corporation: Intake Manifold set, exhaust manifold set, full set, head gaskets, valve cover gaskets.
Federal-Mogul Corporation: Rod and Cam bearings.
Federal-Mogul Corporation: Sealed Power piston rings.
Holley: Hooker Super Comp headers.
Lamar Walden Automotive Inc.: Engine block prep, custom machining of pistons, fitting and assembly of all parts supplied.
MAHLE Aftermarket: Main bearings.
Mallory Performance: Unilite "37" series distributor, bronze gear, chrome coil, coil bracket, Active Power Filter.
Stage 8 Locking Fasteners: Stage 8 locking header bolts.
Taylor Cable Products: Spark plug wire set.
Trans-Dapt: Spin-on oil filter adapter. 
Авто/Мото
I remember in high school one of the guys had a black on black, shaved, electric door handle, '58 Impala with a W-motor 348 and 3 dueces. He was kind of a tough kid with very few words for anybody and handy with his fists. When he found out I could set up his 3 carbs correctly, I had a friend for life (and a pretty good back-up when I got in a fight!). In college I ran into several guys with the 409's......the W motors had a very distinctive sound to them like 426 Hemis, flathead Fords, solid lifter SBC's, etc. Pretty good motor for the day and the combustion chambers always intrigued me.....very different.
we drag race with the FORD FE check out our videos
1q
Rest in peace Lamar. You are sorely missed.
Man I remember waking up early on the weekend to watch the OG Power Nation episodes on TV and was always in awe of the power they made with the motors, all of the custom work needed to make it happen, everything about it. Now with modern manufacturing you can buy all of these parts off the shelf any day of the week, and 500hp is just standard now. Back then having a 500hp street motor was just crazy.
It would be nice if they included the date the episodes actually aired on TV just for nostalgia, and also because it's confusing to so many people in the comments why the engines are only making 500hp, or why the engine builder isn't in business anymore, etc.
Wrong the first Chevrolet engine to make a horsepower per cubic inch was the 1957 fuel injected 283 the first carbureted engine to make a horse power per cubic inch was the Chrysler Hemi in 1957
i caught that also guys
Brett, The 1955 Mercedes 300SL had more than 1HP/Cu. in, and in more than one configuration. 3 liters was 180 cu. in., and HP was over 200. This was a FI engine. In 1956 the 354 CU In Chrysler in the 300B was optional with 355 HP. This was a carb engine. The 283 Chevy FI engine in 1957 actually made less HP than a well tuned 1957 Chevy engine of 270 HP with 2 4-barrels. (It was virtually identical to the FI engine in all respects except the induction system). Chevy knew this, but want the prestiege of advertising FI, and 1 HP/Cu. in.. Pontiac also offered FI in 1957, but dropped it in 1958 as too unreliable, and championed 3-2 barrel "Tripower" for years to come. A very few 1958 Pontiac Bonnevilles had fuel injection, but most were converted to tripower by the dealers due to consumer complaints.
I caught that crapola to. LOL
I swear I heard long ago that carol Carol Shelby was the 1st to get 1hp per ci with a 302 ford...
409 wasnt the first hp to cube... it was a 283
I thought the 1957 Corvette FI 283 was the first engine to match horsepower to cubic inches.(1:15)
I literally stopped the video to go to the comments about this... beat me to it
no, the chrysler 300 engine was the first.
Thank you. Glad someone else called out the 283. Not only in the vette though. Black widow 150 anyone?
AEarlier '54 Chrysler 354" Hemi had 355 HP...
Isn't that the truth @ 17:20 🤣🤣🤣
Did you guys here that thing rattling at the beginning of the last pull? Better recurve that distributor!
I heard what almost sounded like a rod as well. Wondering what that was.
I was reading down through the comments waiting to see if anyone else noticed lol
Yes, it was detonating like balls.
I heard it
I heard a rattle the whole time
All is good except the carbs. Don’t hit the road without your phone and AAA card. Those Edelbrock carbs should be repurposed as wheel chocks.
Ok boomer we have RUclips to debunk mythological out the bum assumptions like the one you and your drunk friend have manifested from a previous hearing.
@@daddyschainsjewelry Please don’t be an idiot. The world is over run with them.
i wanted to see the combustion chamber on the heads but no , these j-offs are more concerned about the fkn paint
There isn't one, it's flat.
@@matthenderson1658 @ 3:55 Lamar said ""the quench of the head has to be perfect"" . as you may or may not know , every engine known to man , piston to head clearance is your combustion chamber
@@deletethis5489 then why are you wanting to see the head? It's hard to see piston to head clearance, it's just air. 🤣 As you may or may not know...
@@matthenderson1658 i know you are but what am i ?
Edelbrock doesn't want you to see that until you paid for it and have it at your shop.
Says "air gap" 3 times, does NOT have an air gap intake manifold.
I said the same thing, that is NOT an Air-gap intake.
@@slyane7320 I saw that! I quoted that it WAS NOT AN AIR GAP MANIFOLD! Good JOB!
It was on the cue card so they read it spoke it.
I think you should have shown the flat head and the block with the piston up so people could have seen how the combustion works with that engine.
@Slingblade 61 Not the cylinder it's in the block. Thats why it's shaped like a W.
Awesome I miss my old 409 Chevy! Those guides he mentioned are everything when 4000 rpm and above.
1:20 - No... the 283 was the first to meet--and exceed--the HP/CI ratio N/A. But then, it had Rochester Fuel Injection on it vs. dual quads. However, the dual-quad version (IIRC) did meet it, and they both did it in the '57-m/y.
I said the same thing.
I came here to say that but I had a feeling it had already been said.
I have to agree with you when it comes to Chevrolet. The 283 WAS first to make 1 hp per cubic inch in 1957 ahead of the 409. These guys blew it there. When it comes to Chrysler in 1957, the 300B had an optional 354 hemi that made 355 hp. To be fair though, both of these engines were pretty hopped up from the factory. Typically they went out the door at less than 250 hp. Makes for great bar room trivia though! What are your thoughts?
I was going to say that as well.
I ain't from 57, but...........according to my 57 motors manual the 283 horse 283 w/fuel injection was 10.5-1compression and 2 fours was 9.5-1compression. Would that make the difference? Idk, but fuel injection was like electronics of today and b4 nobody could keep them tuned properly. Interesting that my Motors manual from 57 does not list a 354 as one cube/inch, but close idk maybe I don't doubt it, but 392 was @a high of 375hp
I just realized these videos were filmed maybe decades ago but just recently posted. How does one find out the original air date?
Google it. Should come up on imdb
I liked the 409's. We had a '62 Bel Aire with a 409/425hp engine. Probably not original in the car, but it ran a 12.27 on a 12.40 national stock record. Then came the 428CJ mustangs and the national record dropped quickly. Overall, you have to respect the 409's. It was a truck motor, that became something very special. It is now a big part of history. Now-a-days, when I see one, it brings back great memories, plus the knowledge that I am looking at Chevrolet history. How cool is that?
Correct me if I am wrong....but wasn't the '57 Chev w/ 283 with the Fuel Injection rated at 283 HP. The FIRST engine to have 1 HP to 1 CI ??? Joe is a younger guy and may not remember 1957. lol
Bone stock with a factory cam makes 420 HP with dyno headers, Not a good value proposition here. Way too much carb, also. Bet she'd be happier with two 2bb or with a single 4 bbl. No talk about jetting with dual quads. The Motor sounds soft. Big miss there. I guess its just a long Edlebrock ad. Still nice seeing that motor. TY!
My grandfather drag raced for gm in the 60s (somewhere around 1964) and he had a 409 in a 1958 chevy highway patrol car
LoL that 409 on the dyno scared my cat outta the room
Nice Theater System lol
12:56 Valve covers that were made for a specific engine.... get outta here!
348 & 409 is specific to the rocker covers. Nothing else fits 'em.
@@rogermarshall8991 True but the W engines were Chevy's take on the Chrysler polyspherical small blocks which also used a scallop valve.
A boring bar. Sad. The deck is not at a right angle to the bore. I watched a few get bored off angle. - total loss. A honing machine would be the best way to increase the bore on these blocks. Once we had the Sunnen CK10, the boring bar collected a lot of dust. Another issue is a truck block. Depending on how it was flogged, the web did crack. Anchor Motor Freight used 409's and when they went to the junk yard, most of the time you would have to go through 5 engines to find one without web problems. Anchor Motor Freight delivered new cars from GM plants, not sure how much of the country they covered but every car built in the Baltimore Chevrolet plant was hauled out by Anchor unless loaded on a train. All you need to redo one of these is very deep pockets. The aftermarket is in business to make money. Shame on the dyno test. They did not dyno the engine with the air cleaner in place which would have shown a loss in power.
My first car, at 17, was a 4-speed, dual-quad, posi traction 409 in a ‘64 SS. With a 300+ degree duration solid-lifter cam from the factory, it could pass anything except a gas station! LOL
All kidding aside, it was way too much car for a 1st car and mom and step-dad made me sell it. Would love to have it back...
Thanks a ton for telling us the cam profile…
I'm sitting here watching this and as they're about to dyno it I thought I wonder what power it'll make? Initially I thought 480 but then I thought nah it has dual quads so downgrade to 465. So it's 464 initially then 475 after a timing adjustment (before the long tube header swap). Funny thing about this is, after watching literally (not figuratively) hundreds of engine builds that have dyno tests on RUclips, about 80% of the time you can guess the power within a few HP. Go figure!
Sometimes I'm way off though. On Nicks Garage they had a 505 Hemi (so a stroked 426) with OEM iron heads and a single 4bbl on a dual plane intake and I guessed maybe 530 (due mostly to the dual plane intake corking the stroker combo). It made 632hp. It isn't that surprising since after watching the 505 Nick's Garage dynoed as stock as is possible 426 Hemi with points, OEM carbs and all and it made IIRC 492hp, so nothing like the factory rating of 425. With such a high starting point for a stock Hemi I suppose a 505 should go into the 600s. Goes to show the Hemi head port airflow potential is far greater than a 7 liter engine turning only 6000rpm needs.
Scott Shaffiroff just posted a single 4bbl 409 with 625 hp. I don't remember the cubes but it's nasty and it didn't come from Lamar.
@@warrenstephens3705 There's a few good articles on the W engines.
I haven't read any for ages but iirc they have a finite comp ratio that limits them to 11:1 range due to the combustion chamber arrangement so for racing they were at a disadvantage. Still makes them an ideal street motor and I bet the design is naturally detonation resistant too.
Warren Stephens it’s a 509 cid motor not 409. Lamar is the expert on those 409 motors he will be missed RIP.
@@ThePaulv12 - Actually the W motor design was detonation prone and hard to make big power with so they tossed it, compare to: www.dailymotion.com/video/x3rfhrk
@@BuzzLOLOL nonsense!
The 409 was the best thing GM made, my brother had one in a 56 chevy and he was blowing the new 340 and 440 off the road with it and all he done was put a they cam in it and two four barrels
I don't see an air gap in that intake.
It's a phantom gap.
This is what I was thinking
Look closer. and keep looking.
You have to drill the hole under it yourself...
Script writer was prolly thinking of the 1916 - 1918 Chevy V8s with air gap intake manifold...
Considering that motor has been bored out and you said it now has a 4 inch stroke it would now have a displacement of more than 466 cubic inches.
not the first 1hp/in3 engine. chysler 300s in 1956
, a couple mercedes engine before that. And of course the 1957 fuel injected Chevy 283
Just an awesome engine. Always one of my favorites.
Ok, that 409 is NOT a motor, it is an engine! Motors run on electricity and engines run on some type of fuel like gas or diesel. Is a Rocket shot into space powered by a rocket motor? No, of course not. It is a rocket engine. Passenger jets powered by jet motors? No! Jet engines.
I love chevy but smash the timing cover to lower end play on the cam? 🤦♂️
Our family's 1962 Belair Bubble Top 409 was stolen last year out of SoCal. If anyone runs across the car or the motor there is a reward. 425 horse dual quad motor. was in the family for 40 years. we think they may have taken the motor out to make it harder to track down.
Who else didn't know that the combustion chamber was actually in the block. Interesting design.
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
@@collinwood6496 lol
Oxymoron
Similar to a Ford M.E.L
Primitive Flat headed design, remember, JFK wasn’t even president when they we’re designing it.
I really appreciate learning from you guys. Some things get repeated over and over and I have to hear it more than once to get it to sink in. I'm subbed and notified and watch everything y'all put out.
this is anything but educational,they repeat misinformation over and over again
@@trillrifaxegrindor4411 Examples?
That was one strange engine. Unique & an eye catcher but it had problems w/ durability. Back in the day machinists hated the deck cut at an angle to the bore center line. Had to have a special deck plate to bore them & many a ring was broken during installation. Back in the day I witnessed many trying, in vain, to keep up with a max wedge Dodge or Plymouth which had a much better engineered powerplant.
409 design was copied from Ford... and abandoned fairly quickly... for more conventional design combustion chambers...
That endplay adjustment is scientific AF.
Check this out. 327ci fuel injection 375 hp how about that for a small block Chevy!
By '63 Ferrari was already making 1 HP per liter with their V12's 300hp from a 3L or 180ci in freedom units.
Actually in 1957 the Chrysler 300B came with an optional 354 hemi that made 355 horsepower.
LIAR
That was 1954...
@@dvjracing5947 - It was 1954...
@krvnjrcbs - Yes... look it up...
1957 Chrysler 392" hemi came with 375 and 390 HP...
@krvnjrcbs - Yes...
Hey, your block is no good! Tell ya what... I will trade you straight across for this one I have had on the shelf for years! LOL can't believe he fell for it.
Lamar Walden isn't like that. I know him, and he's a very honest, straight up person.
I built a 488 cubic inch 409 back in the 70's. Crane cams made a roller cam so 07 wasn't the first roller. I had the same valve covers and same intake. I put it in my 67 SS Chevelle for awhile just to play with it but eventually it went into my 63 SS Impala. Awesome engine!!!
Hydraulic roller. They had the solid roller cams for them already.
I am a big fan of the '67 Chevelle. Has to be my favorite year.
These guys think this is an "air gap" intake...
No point to this anymore too much time and money I get it it’s a cool but nobody in the right mind would do this much work for this
Wow I love this engine you can adjust it with a hammer lol ima Ford guy I'm jealous
Lol that area you hit with a hammer won't that flex back out when engine is fully warmed up. That sheet metal bolt for the oil filter lol
YOU HAVE A STICKER IN THE OIL FILLTER ADAPTER !
not sure why the pistons are rounded on the edges that seems like it would increase blowby and side loading
LAMAR WALDEN HAS EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO BUILD ANY 409 FOR ANY APPLICATION. THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND EDELBROCK HAS PERFORMANCE PARTS AS WELL.
It was not called a W motor because of the heads, but because of Chevy’s big block development project designation of W. Yeesh you guys.
That was my first eye roll too! The history I've read said they had 3 designs: W,Y, & Z. They went with W.
I wonder how many times Joe can say "Fine 409".
Notwithstanding GM's influence over PowerNations content, I'll point out that the "409 was the first motor ever to match HP to cubic inches" is patently false. In 1961 Ford offered the 352 hipo FE engine that made 360hp...
That X motor also had screw in casting plugs, do freeze plugs. And I love Tri y headers! They are the best type for low rpm engines like 4x4’s, towing and mild performance engines!
Hey bro that's not an Edelbrock Air Gap intake. That's a Edelbrock Performer dual plane.
These actors don't know the difference... or why...
Chevy's first big block I believe.
I think Red Sled and the 409 is possibly my favorite build on powernation!! Cant wait to see it on the road.
You can see it at their web site. It's been done for years.
Terrible carbs.......
I'm surprised to see original used main bolts being reused.
Thats a good looking engine. Sounds great. Good job fellas.
Nice build my brother had a 409 it was one powerful motor only one thing two things silicone on gaskets turns the gaskets to mush and I like sticking with the canister filter canister filter oil filters much oil to two qt spin on filter by the way the old 409 for known for breaking frames
I have an old car, I would like to strengthen the engine in it, what parts should I replace?
Please help, I need your information
large piston, thick piston rods, large crankshaft
is it enough to power the engine
Please
What kind of engine... each engine design has specific needs...
You may be able to rebuild a 409, but you’ll never be able to rebuild Buddy’s soul...
I miss Joe.
Long time rumor was that it was actually a Ford engine that made the engine noise in the song. However, I think it's been determined that it was actually a 348 which is just a smaller version of w-block engine.
Ford people are retarded... You just have to nod your head, and give them your sympathy. It's all we can do.
Joe "cam bearings" Elmore everyone *clap clap clap*
That's not a airgap intake lol
That's what their script had written on it... they don't know the difference...
10:13 that was the most awkward thing I’ve ever seen😂
Would nice to see these engines run with and without the air cleaners to see how much restriction they give!
I can't believe no four bolt mains
They never made them. 2 bolts handle plenty of power
I'm sorry. I cringe every time I see a fresh build camshaft installed without block standing on back end. Camshaft is the FIRST thing you install REGARDLESS of block orientation. Old school thinking. Edit. And paint it FIRST!! Lol. Edit #2. After watching him install oil filler tube with block of wood and a hammer when manifold is already installed, cringe level tripled. Wood chips in the valley. I can't watch anymore
Do not ever double click while tourquing.....
Its a bad habit, but It shouldn't hurt.
Can u guys do a 400 sbc AFR heads solid roller cam build? I can't find one on your channel.
I thought the small block 283CID 283HP in 1957 chevys was the first motor to make 1 HP per cubic inch.
Wow! I think the way that the cam thrust is taken up is terrible. You mean they couldn't have came up with something different by now?
Most important item in any engine is looking at the inside of the cylinder head which you did not do!!!!!! Bad very bad.
Find looking engine runs very nice awesome build back in the day we used to call the 409 anchors we didn’t have the funds to make them awesome Way to go fellas!
:) there is no replacement for displacement
You said it absolutely right!
17:06 was that a rod knock or detonation?
@krvnjrcbs Yes
I remember watching this episode on tv many years ago
really? I don't remember this one..
So what would it cost to build this motor if all the parts and machining weren't given to you?
RIP Elmore
So you bumped up timing.. Great.. what did you end with?? details matter.
the 283 was the first engine to espouse one hp to one cubic inch displacement.
Dam im glad he didnt hammer the oil pan too....lmao
She's so fine, my 409! Woo!!! Hoo!!!
one of the best motors gm made back in the day...
We all know the reason 409 aren't legendary except when they first came..then the 283 design brought the holly grail 350 4 bolt main for 45 years everything before and after was junk...lol
I lived in a 63 blue Chevy impala in the summer of 1970, It was dirty, rough, and nothing special. It had a plant growing up in the rear floorboard. If I could have that car now, I'd like it better than this Frankenstein monster vehicle you have made here. Why don't you get some neck bolt electrodes and put them on either side of the frame. I know you guys think you're making something cool, and I'm sure you're all talented welders, and erectors, and artists, but to me it's just redundant. Have fun, at least the end product looks cool. Just sayin' Mike
When installing the cam, you didn't say what the cams axial clearance was suppose to be???? Mine is .020 play without doing any grinding for clearances on the button. Sounds like enough, to me???
Never put a Chevy in a Ford...morfadikes not aloud.
Mike is less Amish looking than usual..
Cam end play take up is ah, crude. And those pistons must be heavy with that bevel. Strange engine and expensive to build no doubt. But perfect for the classic car it came in.
I'd love to see this done with dual quad efi setup to see how much it makes.
Probably not much more, unless it was port injection EFI, then maybe. You’d see an MPG increase that’s for sure!
I think I that's way to much carb it sounds rich
Agreed. soft and not angry, and likely needed more tuning. They should have used a smaller AFB, or like I mentioned above in another comment, instead use two 350CFM 2bbls on adapters. But they are selling to "the buy it online and bolt it on" crowd . I though Edlebrock had an AFB below 500CFM but I cant find the part number. That motor doesn't need over 750 CFM total for sure. - Happy trails! - Sandy
Like the song said “she’s real fine my 409”….👍
Didn't they give it a 4" stroke making it a 480 something.
..WHY does Everybody feel they HAVE to put air suspension and giant rims on EVERYTHING?.. :(
I would warmed up the clean engine block, then given a coat of rust oleum rusty metal primer. Then I would have finish painted it with engine paint.
The Chrysler 354 was the first engine to make 1 horsepower per cubic inch in 1956, well gross horsepower that is.
If it weren't for a 409, the Ls would not have been built 409 greatest motor ever.... Poneys per cubes.....
The icture of the car is a bubbletops, not the actual car....
Can't believe we used to watch these with 5 minutes of commercials between each segment. RUclips is awesome.
Alittle bit of red finger nail polish on the longer push rods helps identify the length.