Now, first off, Marciano beat several quality young up-and-coming contenders-- see Rex Layne, Roland LaStarza, and Harry "Kid" Matthews. Second, Marciano's win over Louis was *not* comparable to Holmes' win over Ali-- Ali was coming directly out of retirement and was no longer fighting at even a top 10 level. Louis' abilities had signficantly deteriorated since hsi prime days when he fought Marciano, but he had won eight consecutive fights in the last year and was still an excellent fighter.
Even by 1948, when he fought Walcott, Louis was no longer anywhere near his his best: good, but not devastating, by which I mean having the power to knock down fighters who had previously never been off their feet -- Galento, Godoy, & Uzcudun for a start -- and to destroy big hard-punching fighters like Max & Buddy Baer. Over 3 years later he fought Marciano, and even as a "shadow" he lasted 8 rounds. Of couse no one is unbeatable, but at his best, Joe was superior to Rocky.
though Veteran fighters here, it is plain to see how poised, skilful and controlled these old day fighters really were... well past their best they are still fighters, worthy contenders, and a banner for a bygone past whose dedication and legitimacy of a more honest sport where Top Fighters (for the most part), were still happy and EXPECTED to fight one another... think about that the next time people spew - RJJ, LL, Bhop, PBF, GGG and many, many more who's road(s) to success was a lot less 'Rocky!'
One final post, and then I'm back to normal life. George Foreman's view: “There’s never been a boxer better than Joe Louis.... Certainly Muhammad Ali was the greatest man ever to fight, but not the greatest boxer.” Joe Frazier's view: “Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. Rocky Marciano is second only to Louis. Ali's view: “I just give lip service to being the greatest,” he stated. “He [Louis] was the greatest.” That's all, folks. Keep speculating.
Joe Louis had all the tools of a great Heavyweight-speed, boxing ability and power. This old footage doesn't really capture just how fast his punches were, they were blazing fast. And he had the full repertoire-devastating right cross, stinging jab, powerful hook and fearful uppercuts. His defensive skills were underappreciated, he was rarely hit with damaging punches-the first fight with Schmelling being a rare exception and Joe wasn't at this peak when that happened. Arguably, along with Muhammad Ali, Rocky Marciano and possibly Mike Tyson one of the very best Heavyweight Champions.
Of course being an American, Lee Savold was not eligible to win the British Empire title. He did win BBBC recognition as heavyweight champion of the world.
Louis in his prime was, indeed, about as good as they get, but let us not imagine he was a demi-god, nor was he invulnerable to a fighter of Marciano's variety; for example, Arturo Godoy, who was stylistically similar to Marciano, but was not a puncher, took Louis the full 15 rounds and made it very close the first time, so I hardly think it is reasonable to say that it is "too ridiculous to even contemplate" Marciano competing with a prime Louis.
Lee Savold was the EBU World Heavyweight champion .The EBU did not reconize Charles as Champion .So as far as the EBU was concern Louis was the first 2 time worpd champion .Defended it againest Jimmy Bivins and lost it to Marciano .
@mattman747 Absolutely true. Marciano was great for his own time, a time when there were few good young fighters (he beat a lot of very mediocre fighters and old, ex-champions -- his beating Louis was like Holmes beating Ali), but anyone who believes prime Marciano could have even lasted more than a few rounds with -- let alone beaten -- prime Louis...well, it's too ridiculous to even contemplate. Just watch the clips showing Louis at his best. He was as good as they get.
i wonder what fighter has the highest percentage of knockouts on the first knockdown, i'm guessing it's either joe louis, george foreman, or tommy hearns.
Interesting, from the book “Sugar Ray” “He (Ali) was the fastest heavyweight I’ve ever seen and his speed would have enabled him to conquer most of the slower moving heavyweight champions , Like Rocky Marciano. He would have been too fast and too fancy for Rocky, but his speed would not have helped him against Joe Louis.... Before he was Champion Ali was knocked down by Henry Cooper and Sonny Banks, If they could knock him down Joe Louis would have knocked him out cold”. _ Sugar Ray Robinson
I hadn't thought of it like that but the heavyweight division has been infected with that kind of thinking, but if I was an Italian and wanted a fighter that did my group proud its willie pep-his career is excellent like his talents and he fought everyone-rocky's career is a bit shameful to have 49 chances to fight a guy YOUNG and Big and Powerful as a "heavyweight" and never do it! Willie on the other hand is not just an Italian great-he unlike rocky-is a legitimate all time great in little men
Arguments all around for all the "serious" heavyweights and we can make hypotheticals-what I like about a good champ is this question-how often did he win fights he wasn't suppose to win-for that my list puts Ali ahead (not by much) of Louis and Foreman winning at 45 incredible. Larry won against Norton in a war and fought a lot of YOUNG and Big and high KO% men. Even Demsey who only faced whites faced guys in a better state than what Marciano fought-49 times and not one Young+Big+HighKO%!
Now, first off, Marciano beat several quality young up-and-coming contenders-- see Rex Layne, Roland LaStarza, and Harry "Kid" Matthews.
Second, Marciano's win over Louis was *not* comparable to Holmes' win over Ali-- Ali was coming directly out of retirement and was no longer fighting at even a top 10 level. Louis' abilities had signficantly deteriorated since hsi prime days when he fought Marciano, but he had won eight consecutive fights in the last year and was still an excellent fighter.
Even by 1948, when he fought Walcott, Louis was no longer anywhere near his his best: good, but not devastating, by which I mean having the power to knock down fighters who had previously never been off their feet -- Galento, Godoy, & Uzcudun for a start -- and to destroy big hard-punching fighters like Max & Buddy Baer. Over 3 years later he fought Marciano, and even as a "shadow" he lasted 8 rounds. Of couse no one is unbeatable, but at his best, Joe was superior to Rocky.
though Veteran fighters here, it is plain to see how poised, skilful and controlled these old day fighters really were... well past their best they are still fighters, worthy contenders, and a banner for a bygone past whose dedication and legitimacy of a more honest sport where Top Fighters (for the most part), were still happy and EXPECTED to fight one another... think about that the next time people spew - RJJ, LL, Bhop, PBF, GGG and many, many more who's road(s) to success was a lot less 'Rocky!'
One final post, and then I'm back to normal life.
George Foreman's view:
“There’s never been a boxer better than Joe Louis.... Certainly Muhammad Ali was the greatest man ever to fight, but not the greatest boxer.”
Joe Frazier's view:
“Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. Rocky Marciano is second only to Louis.
Ali's view:
“I just give lip service to being the greatest,” he stated. “He [Louis] was the greatest.”
That's all, folks. Keep speculating.
Joe Louis had all the tools of a great Heavyweight-speed, boxing ability and power. This old footage doesn't really capture just how fast his punches were, they were blazing fast. And he had the full repertoire-devastating right cross, stinging jab, powerful hook and fearful uppercuts. His defensive skills were underappreciated, he was rarely hit with damaging punches-the first fight with Schmelling being a rare exception and Joe wasn't at this peak when that happened. Arguably, along with Muhammad Ali, Rocky Marciano and possibly Mike Tyson one of the very best Heavyweight Champions.
Joe Louis forever !
A pretty good match between 2 old veterans. Maybe Louis wasn't what he once was, but Savold knew his way around the ring...an old pro
3:42
Of course being an American, Lee Savold was not eligible to win the British Empire title. He did win BBBC recognition as heavyweight champion of the world.
Louis in his prime was, indeed, about as good as they get, but let us not imagine he was a demi-god, nor was he invulnerable to a fighter of Marciano's variety; for example, Arturo Godoy, who was stylistically similar to Marciano, but was not a puncher, took Louis the full 15 rounds and made it very close the first time, so I hardly think it is reasonable to say that it is "too ridiculous to even contemplate" Marciano competing with a prime Louis.
Not bad at all for a 37-year-old ex-champ with as much wear as Joe had.
Lee Savold was the EBU World Heavyweight champion .The EBU did not reconize Charles as Champion .So as far as the EBU was concern Louis was the first 2 time worpd champion .Defended it againest Jimmy Bivins and lost it to Marciano .
@mattman747 Absolutely true. Marciano was great for his own time, a time when there were few good young fighters (he beat a lot of very mediocre fighters and old, ex-champions -- his beating Louis was like Holmes beating Ali), but anyone who believes prime Marciano could have even lasted more than a few rounds with -- let alone beaten -- prime Louis...well, it's too ridiculous to even contemplate. Just watch the clips showing Louis at his best. He was as good as they get.
i wonder what fighter has the highest percentage of knockouts on the first knockdown, i'm guessing it's either joe louis, george foreman, or tommy hearns.
Interesting, from the book “Sugar Ray”
“He (Ali) was the fastest heavyweight I’ve ever seen and his speed would have enabled him to conquer most of the slower moving heavyweight champions , Like Rocky Marciano. He would have been too fast and too fancy for Rocky, but his speed would not have helped him against Joe Louis.... Before he was Champion Ali was knocked down by Henry Cooper and Sonny Banks, If they could knock him down Joe Louis would have knocked him out cold”. _ Sugar Ray Robinson
an old Louis ko Savold. Marciano could not even score a knockdown against Savold winning by tko when savold retired after 6 rounds on his stool
Maybe if this nights fight was with Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano Louis would of beaten him and we wouldn't know about Marciano.
I hadn't thought of it like that but the heavyweight division has been infected with that kind of thinking, but if I was an Italian and wanted a fighter that did my group proud its willie pep-his career is excellent like his talents and he fought everyone-rocky's career is a bit shameful to have 49 chances to fight a guy YOUNG and Big and Powerful as a "heavyweight" and never do it! Willie on the other hand is not just an Italian great-he unlike rocky-is a legitimate all time great in little men
@ngwrestler
he wasn't very good against savold...
Arguments all around for all the "serious" heavyweights and we can make hypotheticals-what I like about a good champ is this question-how often did he win fights he wasn't suppose to win-for that my list puts Ali ahead (not by much) of Louis and Foreman winning at 45 incredible. Larry won against Norton in a war and fought a lot of YOUNG and Big and high KO% men. Even Demsey who only faced whites faced guys in a better state than what Marciano fought-49 times and not one Young+Big+HighKO%!