Manual vs Automatic | Debate Over?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 май 2024
- In this fine print video we discuss how and why the manual transmission has fallen out of favor for the automatic counterparts. Driving a stick in fun sports car is often a special experience for many, and the debate about which is better continues. In affordable cars, automatics have gotten so good the argument to get rid of manuals all together has progressed. Whether you drive a Miata, Ford Mustang, Porsche 911, Toyota Toyota Supra, Corvette, or Civic Type R we want to hear from you.
#manuals #automatics #cars
Index:
00:00 - 00:26 Intro
00:26 - 00:51 Times Are Changing
00:51 - 3:39 Driving an Automatic LC500
3:39 - 4:38 Understanding the Hatred for Automatics
4:38 - 7:50 Driving the Legacy Manual Transmission
7:50 Final Thoughts 
Авто/Мото
Upcoming SG video: “How the gloss black industry has turned me into a raging psychopath”
😆
not even joking. it has to be to induce rage. every single car reporter says how he hates it. why doesnt the industry care? and they dont install it on the upper dashboard or the door panels, no. they put that shit on the steering wheels and the climate units where you constantly have to touch it. someone really hates people who want clean looking cars.
@@Mr.Marbles 4 months with this new car and in the first week of driving I was already thinking how much of it and how hard it will be to replace. If at all possible.
@@mcrowl2823 Vinyl wrap it. Much cheaper than replacing it, and if you do it right, it will last a long time.
@@quarthmeat1884 good idea.
It might be slower, but getting that single shift right gives me more pleasure than 1000 auto paddle presses
I own a 6 speed RSX type S and TL type S , manual is just so engaging
Same here. Also, when I can sometimes I take cars from my parrents and enjoy a little different shifting expirience other than the one on my car. It's always fun.
The DCT is faster and getting that perfect shift 999 out of 1,000 times with both hands on the wheel gives me a big grin 999 times. Also, the fully automatic operation has taught me I tend to over rev the engine in everyday driving in manual mode.
@@machtschnell7452 so your driver skills are are top notch? Cause you don’t have to rev match or calculate your shifts and pedal dance? All I need is a gas, brake and pedals to be the ultimate driver like takumi??
no hate towards auto but i’m used to daily manual. yeah autos are great and fast but they’re boring. even my father despite how old he is still drives a manual. even despite traffic jams even my friends who can’t drive manual asked me to switch to auto but i refused. i literally enjoy driving manual it’s fun all the time! (maybe excluding traffic jam which isn’t that big of a deal for me anyways haha)
I would like to see more sequential manual transmissions on sport cars. It's fast and easy like automatic but you still feel connected like on the manual, and the quickshifter with ignition cut makes cool sound :D Also at least on motorcycles quickshifters are now days so well dialed in that they work really well up and down even on everyday riding when you are not really going fast.
I had to read your comment, in your voice. :) so here we go!
Vw dsg is fun, cant beat golf r dsg farts, ps: keep doing what you are doing man its like garage 54 for everything that isnt a car and i love it
Yeah, no. Those were terrible autos and sloppy manuals
Those last like, 30,000 miles before rebuilds at best. Not worth it in a street car with a warranty over a DCT, ever.
Motorcycle quick shifters have come a long way. The only time I'm using the clutch on my ZX-6R is the occasional stop and go traffic. Other than that, Kawasaki's quick shifter and programming surrounding it make riding that much more effortless, plus being able to snap off shifts at dual clutch speed without touching a clutch is amazing.
i literally get bored and sleepy when driving a comfortable automatic. I get too distracted more too. Dont get me wrong, I love the ease and comfort of an automatic but man the fun and engagement you get in a standard transmission is unmatched.
This! I text and shit when I’m in an automatic. It’s so effing dangerous.
don't even mention the subconscious desire to speed when driving an automatic as well. with a standard gearbox i literally have a feeling of how fast i'm going at all times based on the rpm & gear i'm in. with an auto it's just way too easy to want to press the gas a little farther and farther until you're 20 over
I used to think this as well, then I started working in LA area. California traffic will change your opinion very quickly when your having to shift gears 500 times on a normal commute home. An automatic isn’t so bad sometimes lol
@@chuckthetrooperglad you said that because I’m in the sf bay area and traffic is horrendous
As an older guy my daily will always be an automatic, my track day car will always be a manual. I'm on track to have fun and it may be old thinking but having that direct engagement is just so much fun and a part of the experience for me.
For my dailies I only want EVs, but what I really want is an ATV with a proper stick and three pedals.
My thinking is the opposite. I like MT engagement for daily driving. If I was racing, i'd take the advantage of AT and less chance I screw up under pressure.
Really, you do know 99% automatic cars are faster on track then the manual version right?
Daily and track car 6 speed
@@Tomoyo0827 yeah but my track car is also manual just because it's significantly more fun for me. Yes autos are faster but if my lap time is only a couple seconds off and I had more fun, that's still a win for me.
I love your car reviews 100% but I would so appreciate you guys switching it up with content like this more often . It's still relevant to cars but almost a small history lesson
Seriously, that dealership experience video he did a while back still sticks with me. I even brought that story about his parents being locked up at the dealership to sign papers in a conversation I had recently.
SG in the LC500: Stern, informative, reserved.
SG in the S2000: joyous, happy, relaxed. Just seeing the 2 different SG's is all that is needed to put the Manual vs Automatic debate to rest.
Astute observation! To me, the biggest difference between driving an MT vs AT car is that in the MT car, the body is being symmetrically used, with both left- and right-sides handling delicate tasks requiring sensitivity. Moving from an MT to an AT is like listening to a song with just one earphone instead of two - one misses the symmetry even if the recording is monaural.
So, you think he likes the S2 more?
well he did sell the LC500 and keep the s2000, though LC was worth more $
I drive a 2019 WRX 6MT. I don't even care if the manual doesn't feel as good as other cars used to. The fact that I can downshift from 4th to 2nd, mash the accelerator, and slam shift to 80 mph brings me all the joy in the world.
My 2019 WRX 6MT does this, word-for-word....this clutch better be as strong as I think it is.
Manuals are for the true enthusiasts
I can do the same thing with my automatic. The trick is to keep your foot on the gas pedal until you hit 80mph
@@cowboyga1 😂😂
As you get walked on by an auto lol. I’m a manual dude too but even I have gone to the dark side. It’s way better now. Lexus RCF has an incredible auto. It’s faster in every aspect and I can control the gear I am in.
As much as “enthusiasts” rant and rave about how manuals are dying, many don’t go out and buy a manual car; whether it’s due to a lack of availability or just actual preference behind the lip service. Automatics have come a long way, but manual will always hold a special place for me.
Agreed
True. I have a Focus ST, but most don't have a manual
Counterpoint: as an enthusiast, I am very particular about what I want in a car and can't just put it all on a transmission. Most of the manual-quipped cars fail most of the criteria. For me, I want AWD, stick, luxury features, a strong powerplant, and it has to be visually attractive. The last car to ever meet that criteria was the previous generation BMW 440i xDrive, and I couldn't afford a new one at the time I was last in the market. I have a preference for Audi over BMW or MB, so if they decided to offer an S5 with a manual, I would be at the dealership making my deposit yesterday.
But no. All the manuals are economy penalty boxes, American pony cars, hot hatches, or the slow Miata/BR-Z. I don't want any of these. How can I support the manual when they aren't on the cars I want? Even if I did buy one of these, I'm sending the message that these are what manual buyers want, and I don't want to do that, either.
To be fair i think a lot of the enthusiast people who watch these vids are jerking each other off and buying each others used manual cars, which doesn’t help the market for making new ones at all
They didn't buy them new when they were available widely... hence the shift to automatics.
SG's now has a make-up department? Top notch job making Mark look like he has aged 15 years guys! Really incredible production quality.
Thanks!
-His mom
Your rounded willingness to look into all angles is really refreshing compared to a lot of people who dont dig down from the surface. I notice it in most things you say!
Sad but true SG. Still, a bad manual these days is more fun than any CVT.
What about dct's? Those shift crazy fast and hard. Its boils your blood pressure
@@blackice7408 I have a dry DCT, I'd take that over cheaper autos but more expensive autos like the ZF-8 are probably just as fast and much smoother. a wet DCT I'd take over any other transmission of any kind. but I didn't grow up driving manuals.
@@blackice7408 Wet DCT's are pretty insane, just went to compare my Manual Veloster N with the DCT N and it's crazy just how good that transmission is.
@@anengineerandacat yeah I was curious to see someone's thoughts on a direct comparison with the DCT N. sounds like you enjoyed the test drive. I wanted to test drive one as well.
currently I'm on a Mazda craze (and rightly so just really surprised at their superb handling) having another manual 3 this time the Speed3 already enjoying. but I have yet to try a DCT.
@@SpartanArmy117 yea the zf has a strong rep, and the 10 speed on the camaro shifts very quick
Living in the countryside, where it's just long roads and a lot of exiting back roads, manual transmission is a no-brainer for me. My daily and my summer car are both manuals with really short gearing that I love. I'm actually saving money to buy the next Nissan Z, just because it's manual.
Smart man, that new Z is gonna be dope
Buy what you want, it's your car. That new Z looks sweet. I live in a city with atrocious traffic so I have two options, buy an automatic or be annoyed all the time. Everyone has different circumstances.
@@quixomega I live in Miami and daily drive a stick
@@Joey856721 same here in the streets of LA, it’s really about how well you can drive a stick, if you can’t handle then yeah gas go and brake stop
The Z has a great manual once it is upgraded with a kit such as the ZSpeed Performance upgraded clutch, and clutch slave cylinder bypass. It can handle high power, and the sticky first to second gear shift is much better. It can handle gobs of power as well. I understand the manual for the new Z will be basically the same as the existing.
I drive a 2016 Camaro SS with a manual as my daily and I love it. I drove a ZL1 with the 10 speed automatic and was genuinely shocked with how fast and smooth it shifted. I know eventually the manual is going to be a thing of the past but I'm going my manual until the wheels fall off.
That TR-6060 is definitely on the short list of good manuals.
The modern day automatic transmissions are smooth and quick. However, I'd still prefer manuals because it provides a more engaging drive. The way I see it autos are people who can't drive manuals or for the speed queens who cares only about time slips. Manuals are for drivers who likes control.
@@mrjjthor agree completely. A bonus nowadays with is a manual is they're a built in theft deterrent.
A big part of the reason people aren't buying manual transmissions is that companies who still offer them often only offer them on lower spec trims. This forces their customers to choose between a manual transmission and things like LED headlights, upgraded interiors, premium audio systems, and advanced driving and safety aids (I'm looking at you Subaru Crosstrek). When you have to give up so much, a lot of people choose to settle for the automatic, even if they would've preferred a manual.
In Subarus case, it makes NO sense to choose the auto. Those CVTs are straight dog shit, just buy the manual and upstage everything else aftermarket
@@Augie- I agree about the CVT, but the manual isn't an option on most of their vehicles anymore. You pretty much have to choose the vehicle/trim with all of the options you want, then void your warranty by swapping in the manual transmission, which can also be quite expensive.
This is just simply not true
@@wildmikefilms I'm not sure if you are delusional, or maybe in a market outside the USA, but in most of the cars I have looked at getting, having a manual transmission means getting a lower trim model and giving up a bunch of features that simply aren't available with the manual transmission. This is true with the Ford Bronco, the Toyota Tacoma, and nearly every Subaru that is still offered with a manual transmission. When the Subaru Crosstrek still came with a manual transmission last year, it was only available on the bottom two trim levels (Base and Premium). If you wanted to add any of the options that were available on the Premium you could only get them in a package with the CVT. Even the Subaru WRX, which the company's own data shows has a 90% take rate for manual transmissions, now has a top level trim that is only available with their CVT automatic, which means if you want the new active suspension system that is only available on that trim level you have to give up having a manual transmission. So yeah, what I said was and is completely true.
@@Augie- the bad thing is that they don't even offer it anymore.. at least not for crosstreks and up, i mean forester, outbacks, ascents...
if you buy the WRX or BRZ, then you are safe, and even so, I think it was just recent that the WRX was given the TS version which is comparable to the highest CVT trim... I forgot the specifics but the manual version didn't have recaro seats on the highest trim, but the CVT did...
Impreza also has manual trans still I think....
I really liked this video! Simple, straight to the point, and above all HONEST. Sometimes to have a discussion on a topic like this, you have to admit bias. Hard for many people to do, but you're spot on 👍🏻
That LC500 is always first on my wish list 🙂
Most def
I just hope people buy them, the fewer that sell, the less likely it is that I'll be able to afford them
@@WeAreChecking I see even the second hand prices are Ouch
overhyped car
@@kristians2704 Hold this L.
Turbowski lives!
They're teasing his spinoff series. The Book of Turbo Fett. Coming soon to Disney+. AND YOU'RE NOT 100% SURE I'M KIDDING.
That’s an old clip
Yeah I noticed that too! Lol so he is alive....unless that's an old clip and he's really in SavageGeese's freezer in the basement.
Legend says, Turbowskis body is in Marks garden.
Under the roses.
@@PianoBlackTrimRep. it’s an old clip from a past video
I think I am part of a dying breed, I have owned a manual since I was 16 and even at 43, daily drive a manual and don’t plan on changing. Fortunately, I started with Miatas and graduated to 911s over the decades. Great commentary, glad to still be part of the small 7 percent.
Same here. A few years ago I bought an automatic car and for a brief moment enjoyed the point-and-shoot feel, but after 9 months I was over it and went back to a manual. It's not a performance thing, it's a driver involvement thing. I like to shift. I like to work the clutch. I like to get deeply familiar with the car so I can drive it really well, minimize roll-back on steep hill starts, shift smoothly, be in the right gear for each situation. Even though automatics have improved so much, and even if they are technically superior to manuals in performance and economy, they take away that day-to-day involvement in driving.
You nailed it! I'm another hardcore manual enthusiast, but one that sees it from all angles like you do.. here's hoping the good ones keep coming..
Its not our fault manual cars are terrible and useless nobody wants them automatic is just better its an unchangeable fact
my first car was the ford focus with the recalled transmission and it sounded like it had rocks in the gears from day one. now i have a manual abarth and every ride is fun, even just a trip to the grocery store puts a smile on my face
This. Even a manual shit box is engaging and fun. What we're talking about really is two different types of people. Unfortunately lazy fucks, the same ones who embraced digital distribution because they can't get up to change a disk have fucked over everything.
@@mayamanign there’s more to driving and fun than shifting gears.
lol i was in the same situation, you start from a stop in a way the car didnt like and it'd shutter like hell. now onto a honda civic si and learning manual on it and having so much fun
@@mayamanign It has nothing to do with laziness.
@@JoJoJoker yeah everyone understands that. The point is that an auto will not give you the same level of engagement as a manual
Great stuff and excellent thoughts guys. Bravo!
You guys are great
hey you. I like you
everyday commenter
You guys aren't verified? Yikes
Nice to see you guys here!
Great video thanks. I would also add, in my opinion, that generally the manufacturers are going auto so they can control the power delivery and therefore not have to spend money on stronger driveshafts and differentials. An example of this is the current line of Mustang GT's.. the Manual has a cast steel diff casing, the auto has Aluminum. The Manual NEEDS to be stronger because the manufacturer cannot stop you revving to the red line and side stepping the clutch, whereas in the auto the electronics can simultaneously control the torque delivery and gear changes to "protect" the drivetrain.
Well thought out and I've felt this way for a while. I own the Miata and love that "feel" but when driving my BMW it can be just as much fun and the options and modes available on the BMW are smooth and fit most driving desires. I use the manual mode on that car from time to time and have learned to love it, while not the connected feeling of the Miata gearbox, still fun. Nice video!
The end goal is EVs where you will likely not even have a transmission to shift gears. But I'll always have space for my manual Miata.
Have fun with Miata, until gas is still legal.
@@jareknowak8712 Sale of new gas cars will be banned, but I don't expect gas itself to be banned anytime soon in the U.S. By the time it does, I expect the car to be falling apart from all the track days and spirited driving it goes through.
@@kamilb8232 haha really? I still see beat up, absolutely trashed out NA and NB Miatas still going
@@kamilb8232 mazdas are strong from the b engine of the first gen to the Skyactiv-G
Most EVs dont have transmissions today
My wife’s boyfriend can’t drive stick so it’s not really my choice
Underrated
*can't drive stick? he isn't her boyfriend, it's her girlfriend meme
Needs more likes.
Tell her to get a new boyfriend...sometimes wife’s can be so selfish
I feel you.
You guys are criminally underrated. With this kind of stuff, you deserved 1m subs or more.
I remember getting in my friends M3 a couple years ago after having not driven a manual for over 10 years. It was like riding a bike! OMG, so fun, the adrenaline, everything. Made me opine for my old Legacy GT Turbo with it's 6 speed.
Nothing beats that perfect buttery smooth shift into 2nd gear and 3rd gear. That feeling is so unique. How do you replicate it....
Also the feeling when you rev-match downshift so perfectly you have to look down to make sure you're not actually in neutral.
Unless you drive a 2015-21 wrx. The first to second gear shift is the most horrible thing ever.
@@markbacani3762 hahaha yes! So true.
@@ianholmquist8492 I drive a 19 BRZ, haha. The 1 to 2nd is also the hardest. But when it's done right, you hear the fat lady sing alright! Sing to 8k rpm babyyy
My car has a slightly worn 2 to 3 synchro so the only way to get a silky smooth third to second downshift is by double declutching. If I'm not driving hard and want to change gear slower I'll add a second throttle blip at the end. Same process for 2nd to 1st except double declutching is mandatory (avoid wrecking synchros big time).
And yes, 1st to 2nd gearshifts are always annoying
The fine print series has been revived and so has my soul
Your enthusiasm for the S2000 got me into one myself. A true gem in the automotive scene
You hit the nail on the head about a lot of new manual transmission vehicles @10:05. They feel like flimsy plastic toys in comparison to older manual transmissions. I traded in my last manual transmission 2017 Civic EX because the stick felt like I could have broken it in half if I wanted to. That, combined with horrible rev hang, and the fun is totally gone.
When i bought the savagegesse t-shirt, i got vaccinated thrice with the JD Power™ Best In Class Vaccine and now my life has meaning
Did they do it with a lobotomy thrown in?
@@DonnieDarko727 yep, using piano black medical equipment with optional android auto and apple carplay
@@bluengold3443 very interesting
That savagegeese I hate him but that JD Power Best in class vaccine really does give my life meaning.
I heard that that vaccine was ranked #1 in Initial Quality
I love my 86 manual for the reasons mentioned. All the inputs make you feel connected to the car. Manual trans is pretty damn good, especially for "modern" cars.
Same with my nd Miata, I’d be curious to see what percentage of sales are manuals for these driver focused cars
I went from an FR-S with a standard to a Mazda 3 with an auto, and at first I was sticking to the 'uggggh it's gotta be an auto' but after driving it and living with it, I really don't feel like I'm missing out.
Yep I can 2nd that. I found it a little clunky around town, but pegging the car to redline? Amazing. Definitely one of the best out there.
Last year (newer automatic technology), I test drove the automatic version of the hakone 86, and the manual version of the brz. And the manual brz was much more fun and actually seemed faster. One from Toyota and one from Subaru, but they are basically the same car.
@@judethree4405 That's because the AT in the 86/BRZ is trash.
simplicity, no expensive repairs or maintenance, longevity are still some of the pros of manuals.
Ehm, it seems as though automatic transmissions are cheaper to maintain, and last much longer now. The new automatic transmissions (in bigger more expensive cars) are almost perfected in terms of maintanance and life expectancy. They are cheaper in maintance because they don't brake down like automatic transmissions do.
every 100k typically you need a clutch/flywheel depending on how you drive...auto's can go 200k plus without needing anything but then yeah they die their more expensive then just a clutch/flywheel
Exactly. I'd still much rather do a clutch than an automatic repair/swap.
@@tone3560 The exact opposite of my experience. I sold a Civic Si with original clutch with 200k+ miles. My Z3 Coupe just passed 190k. And so on. 90k on a Mazda auto, less than that on others. I won't be buying another auto anytime soon.
@@tone3560 That's the biggest batch of bs I've ever heard in my life... who needs to replace their clutch and flywheel every 100k miles, stop riding the clutch dude.
Excellent video , you got it 100%
This is why I have 718 Spyder manual for pleasure driving and getting GT3 with PDK transmission for my crazy side!!!
Glad to see you own a LC 500
Nothing can replace that satisfying mechanical process of shifting a manual. Doesn't matter how good or fast autos are.
That's the beginning and end of the debate, really. Doesn't matter if the auto is faster, cheaper, more efficient, or even more reliable. Women, the elderly, and young people without good parents to teach them financial sense may be the one leasing all the new vehicles in automatic, but anyone who learned stick at a young age never goes back, not unless they subject themselves to a bumper to bumper to commute day in and day out, or they get too old.
@@12ealDealOfficial Autos are all of those things except more reliable! Manuals are notoriously more reliable compared to autos.
Let's hear you you again after a 1.5h commute through a crowded metropolitan area with stop-and-go traffic at every other traffic light and cramps in your left leg.
@@stefanguels If that's the situation then of course you would have an auto.
@@stefanguels I don't see how that relates to reliability, and you clearly have never driven stick because your left leg doesn't cramp anymore than you're right leg for being on the brake for 1.5 hours.
Great minds think alike. I could not agree with you more! BTW, I have an 07 S2K, a Cayman and Q5 both with DCTs and a MB C450 with a rather good slush box. None the less the S2K is without a doubt the most engaging and fun car to drive around town. Keep up the good work!
Another great video Mark! This new generation doesn't know the thrill of driving a vehicle that is completely at the control of your hands and feet. It takes skill, coordination, hearing, anticipation, timing and patience to drive these types of vehicles. You get a better understanding of how cars work in general and appreciate them more.
What I think has discouraged many drivers to forego owning such a beautiful machine is the inconveniences of driving one as a commuter and being stuck in traffic- the shifting, clutching, rinse and repeat but ever since the pandemic, guess what? For the past year since shelter in place and folks remotely working from home, the traffic is virtually dead here in the Bay Area. It's great to drive manual without having to worry about being stuck in traffic- it's like driving Saturdays everyday of the week.
After watching your awesome review I pulled the trigger despite some pushback from the wife and bought myself a 2020 Type R last Sept. This could be one of the last times I could finally own a manual transmission and I haven't looked back with my decision. My humble beginnings driving manual cars in Grand Turismo on my original PlayStation finally came to fruition some 25 years later. I plan to own this car forever and I hope you do the same with that beautiful S2000 of yours as well. 😁
I’m an old buzzard and have been driving manuals all my life. Driving a stick becomes so engrained that even in traffic, it’s no hassle.
As far as skill and coordination, walking takes more, and it took longer to learn than does learning a manual transmission. It’s just that today’s Americans are too lazy and lack the motivation to learn.
Ironically, the domination of automatic transmission is going to be short lived, because EV’s are going to make the overly-complicated gear-changers obsolete.
I’m hysterically sad your Wayfarers don’t have some Piano Gloss Plastic ™
I tend to keep my cars longer now versus when I was younger. Still, at 71 I've (only) owned 12 cars. 3 were automatics, and the last of those I owned in the mid-70s. I find it difficult to get enthused about an automatic, though I know they are more highly capable than I. So comparatively speaking I have come to terms with "driving a slow car fast". I just love the feeling of mechanically bonding with a car. Even in stop and go, I don't mind. It's just another opportunity to practice the Holy grail of shifting gears; smoothness.
Well said.
Funny, it's the exact opposite here in the Netherlands; most people buy manuals. Autos are few and far between and always considerably more expensive. I'd never exchange the feeling you get with a manual - especially in a rear wheel drive car - with any auto, regardless of how smooth, hi tech etc. it is. When I'm driving a car, well. I wanna feel like I'm driving a car! Thanks for another great video. You Patagonia Boys are golden.
Aren't manuals much more of a thing in Europe in general? I'm from Canada and I don't think manuals are very popular here either, at least for normal vehicles.
@@fatsharks Okay, fair point.
Nice video! I'm really enjoying my 2021 Veloster with the DCT. Only 170 miles on it so far. It shifts fast! I've had many manual transmission in the past, going way back to 1971.
A brave and exceedingly well put commentary, Mark. Over many, many years of driving I always had at least one MT in my garage. In 2012 I replaced my Mazda RX8 (a manual, of course) with a GTI. My wife who occasionally drove "my" car to commute in the nightmare of Seattle traffic asked how I'd feel about choosing an automatic. It was a timid questions but I could tell it meant a lot to her. OK. I'd heard good things about the GTI's DSG (dual clutch) and I agreed to give it a chance. If it didn't work out, I thought, I could always give her the GTI and go back to an MT.
When I bought a new GTI in 2018 (in large part so my teenage daughter could benefit from additional safety and driver assistance features when she drove it) I didn't even consider a choosing an MT version as good as VW's manual is. The DSG provided quicker shifting and better performance. The option of treating the dual clutch transmission in manual mode that held a selected gear all the way to redline made the DSG a no brainer. Nearly as "engaging" as an MT with the added benefit that I could leave it in auto mode when I creeped along at five to twenty-five mph stuck in near gridlock freeway traffic and "engagement" wasn't an especially pleasant experience.
There are a few vehicles that I'd still choose with a manual transmission, the most obvious of which is a Miata. But that's because as the last true British sports car (built in Japan, of course with an electrical system that works) its heritage demands it. Otherwise, however, the obsession with manual transmissions among a tiny group of self-styled "enthusiasts" strikes me more as an affirmation of gender identity than a rational choice. I'm old enough to remember when "real" men sneered at power steering and brakes as suitable only for wimps and women. Somehow masculinity survived technological advances.
My first three cars were manual from 1993 to 2014. I’ve been in Grand Cherokee SRT and then a Trackhawk since 2014, and the ZF auto really erased all the bad memories of old automatics. It’s still fun to get to row the box and heel/toe when I get a chance to drive a manual, but in daily driving the ZF is a nice balance.
So being incedibly privlaged makes you forget what its like to to drive a manual?
@@alexduey7868 This comment is making a bigger reach than me rowing gears in my 87 Volvo LMAO
That's kind of part of the issue, though. Sure there are plenty of good automatics, but generally you gotta pony up a good amount of cash to get them. Otherwise it's sluggish penalty boxes with god-forbid CVTs. To each their own of course. I actively seek out only manuals, I know I'm missing out on cars, but oh well
Best car channel on RUclips! Has been for a long time now.
Thank you for making this video. Such a good discussion. Looks like my mk7 GTI is my last manual!!
Some of the best car content on RUclips. Hands down.
It's a crime you guys aren't at a mil subs yet.
I got my first manual car a couple years ago. a Civic Type R. I love it. I wouldn't have it any other way. Its such an engaging and exciting experience. But I'm under no illusion that a modern automatic or dual-clutch is going to be faster every time.
True but unless you’re a professional race car driver, does faster shifts really matter?
@@matts6551 I do participate in autocross. So its only a hobby and an automatic would be an advantage maybe.
@@matts6551 sort of can. If you really want to push urself to the max you will need an auto. Keeping both hands on the wheel will let you push harder. But yeah, in cars under 270ish hp you'll be better off in manual. Just comes down to personal preferance and what you find more fun. A bit like grip vs drift when it comes to driving fun.
Did you mean that a modern auto or dual-clutch wouldn't be faster than a manual or would? There really is no denying the automatics are faster, in the past it was the other way around due to how they responded. I had a 2013 Mustang GT with the auto and I hated it. That 6 speed auto just annoyed me to no end as it never did what I wanted it to. I had a Golf R later with the DSG, I loved that car. Shifts did exactly as I wanted 90% of the time, keyly when I really needed it to.
Manuals are still fun, but as someone into German cars I don't know of many besides Porsche that offer them. I love the sound of a fast shifting auto when it makes a little crack between gear changes. It hurts to hear a manual where it's so much slower between gear changes, to the point that I can't even watch videos of like a Golf R with a manual. In cases like that, you clearly can tell they put a manual in to appease those who whined because the 2015 only had the DSG.
Just another vid that shows why SG is such brilliant viewing. I really like watching reviewers/commentators who actually know what they're talking about.
good video - keep up these discussion videos - they are really interesting and different
4 out of my 5 cars are manual. My only automatic is in a Jeep Wrangler. I taught my wife how to drive manual so she would know how to get me to the hospital before we had the Jeep. I know automatic transmissions and electric cars will win the future but I'm not looking forward to it. I'm going to hold on to my manual vehicles as long as I can. Great video Mark.
Same. It'll be lame when they'll start pushing us toward buying an auto electric car.
I am too going to hold onto my car for as long as possible. I’m nervous about the future of cars especially being in the states...
Fine print is back! What a great surprise for a Friday!
Nice one. Although I also like the cruisy feel of a torque converter in non sporting daily drivers....so comfortable. Had a Ford Mondeo (european Fusion) with a sixspeed TC-box and it was perfect. I am back to manual now and regret it deeply. In my daily, as said.... Keep up the good work.
My first "nice" car had a CVT and I thought after a little while of owning it "Aww... its just better" and knew I wouldn't have too many more manuals.
Good news: bikes will be (sequential) manual until they're electric, and they're much more fun to shift
Mark this is the best discussion on this subject I have ever heard. I’m an older guy and have a love for loud, naturally aspirated, manual cars. I’ve been blessed to have owned a lot of them over the years. I currently own five modern Porsches including GT3 and a 718 Spyder. However, sometimes my left knee is happy I’m in my Targa with a PDK. It will be a sad day when my body won’t let me work a manual box anymore, but I know it’s coming. Love your channel.
When that happens a little OxyContin will fix that knee in a jiffy.
Watching the S2000 part reminds me of this exchange from Gears & Gasoline's video last Saturday:
"Is your car broken?"
"It's got racing pads."
so true- I love it when passengers think my car is busted- they never ask me for a ride again. Try running your car to redline with passengers with you...oh, its priceless!
Tbh I love hearing the brake squeal
Great episode! Love the sound of that lexus!
I dont even have to watch a second to say the answer is simple. Use whichever one suits your needs better. If you like the convenience and performance of automatic use that. If you think manual is more fun and you like the extra control then use that.
There's a lot to say about the choices of others around you affecting both the availability of quality of your preferred transmission.
In Europe, the manual transmission is so widely adopted that drivers benefit from having them available on almost every vehicle. In the US, many vehicles just aren't available with a manual gearbox and where they are, they may not be a good a European variants.
I like old school! But I am over 60 so there's that. I don't race anyone now days so I don't need the fastest shifting transmission. I just enjoy the engagement of shifting my own gears, even in my 2006 Mazda3 5 speed sedan. I am shopping for a new car and whatever car I buy, will be with a manual transmission!!
Same story with me too. I still do little stop light races. I keep my skills honed, and I still tear up the roads when it's safe. I refuse to turn into one of those old people that drives all pokey.
And I did myself a great service by intentionally buying a MINI Cooper S-series w/6 speed manual. I can confirm that you'll really "enjoy the engagement of shifting my own gears" as you stated. Consider buying one of these next time, and don't pay any mind to getting in and out of it. It's tight, but once seated the feeling isn't like much else (that's affordable) and the shifter feels the same as BMW's--I'm told.
I had an 06 S2000, and that manual was the best I've ever driven. Will always love a great manual, but the new automatics are hard to find fault with.
Fault?
- no clutch under the foot.
S2k 1-2 shift were terrible with the later ap2s. Clutch delay valve sucked so bad but it prevented a blown engine lol
I love the bark on the fast downshifts in the LC
Well done. Great way of explaining things. I love manuals, but there just aren’t many cars available in the categories I search for a car. Explaining the money factor is a great way to keep this discussion simple. It’s just not worth it for car companies to make them. They still get people, like myself, that want a manual, but I’m still buying the automatic because that’s all they made. The company made so much more profit not having to R&D the manual, plus the manufacturing costs it would take to make a second trans.
Plus the companies build their autos to keep stress on the drivetrain minimal. Whereas for a manual car they need to build in a stronger drivetrain cause no driver can change the gears as optimally for the drive train as autos can.
I drive manuals because they literally won’t exist soon, and I want the engagement with the car while I still can.
Is Thanos going to snap his fingers and disappear the millions of manual transmission cars on the roads?
Yup! I will be playing with my stick until the day i give in and go electric.
@@JoJoJoker No, but emissions standards will soon force everything to be at least hybrid. I’m not going to pay collector prices for a beat up 2020 6 speed Corolla in 15 years.
Legendary manuals will have great resale value in the future. See: S2000, manual Porsche's, FD RX-7, Mk4 Supra, etc.
@@Fed.Smoker You're assuming we'll even need cars in 15 years.
I couldn't find a car I wanted with a manual and settled on the auto. After years of growing up with terrible automatics, I was really surprised by how good they can be. It's still maybe 3/10 as fun as a manual but it's better at shifting than I am, and top gear is much taller vs. the manual making it a dream on the freeway. But I still sourced my next car with a manual. There's just something about them.
It doesn't matter if an automatic is better. Manuals are amazing to me because they add a level of challenge and complexity to your drive. Giving you a sense of satisfaction when you shift perfectly and smoothly.
Well the big problem with automatics is if you actually run the living snot out of your vehicle. Then it comes down to the design. Most of them don't have transmission coolers and simply cannot take the abuse. Then you have the dealerships that don't know how to do a basic fluid change without costing $6800 and 6 weeks of your time (I didn't have to pay but had it failed 9 days later, then it would have been out of warranty). So my thing is that I don't "hate" automatics, I just think if the manufacture is going to offer one, then they need to execute properly when it comes to cooling, reliability, service, and education of the low IQ individuals the dealerships seem to hire. Telling customers "oh it's a SEALED transmission" and other various forms of avoidance techniques to get out of changing the fluid hoping that customers will just trade in the vehicle before the 60k/5year mark is a stupid business model that only works in a good economy, high resale value, and obviously making much better replacements.
And see i just cant fathom why anyone wants added complexity to operating heavy machinery in an environment full of distracted stupid apes also driving heavy machinery. And yes I drive a manual but I hate it.
@@danr154 Tho I can see how fun can sometimes be confused with complexity. But just sell it then.
@@HARaZAC
Yea I want to, only 3500 left to pay off, Id sell it now but Dodge Darts arent worth shit so then Id have to come up with another down payment and all tbat and for what? For anotber shitty car cause I cant afford too much if I still want to build wealth or save for a house. I just want teleporters lol. The used car market is dumb. Im not paying 7500 for a fucking 12 year old Corolla with 175k miles on it just cause people keep parroting how reliable they are and driving the damn price up. Fuck cars lol.
I drive a 2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ, 4.0 straight 6 with the 5 speed manual. I LOVE it, and I’m only 22. My previous experience with dirt bikes and motorcycles in combo with a car enthusiast family put me into manual cars and trucks, I’ve been driving that Jeep for 4 years and I ADORE the feeling of having full control over the trans compared to the car doing everything for me. It’s also a talking point and I’ve definitely spread the manual trans to more people my age who never knew about them!
I daily a manual. It has incredible road engagement, rear wheel drive, a full carbon fiber body, 33 speeds, and is a bicycle.
33 speeds???
That’s a sequential manual BTW. Those are the best of the best.
A DCT feels more like a sequential manual than a typical automatic.
It's your life. You can choose to end it when a 30 something on their phone runs you over. Roads are not safe.
Mazda manual trans are good and affordable
A used one yes, now they charge you extra for manual
They've dropped manuals on all but the low-end trims now, at least in my market.
Not in the Miata. Automatic costs extra in the Miata, manual is standard.
For a cable shifting FWD car, Mazda makes some pretty good shifters... and the ND is a totally different thing but 💕
2015 mazda 3 S touring with 6MT and short shifter is a thing of beauty. Totally underrated transmission.
Excellent and insightful overview of a topic near and dear to me. I love having a manual transmission in my '18 Type R. That said, good as it is, it is not nearly as engaging or visceral as manuals in even the MGB I drove in the '70's, or the Camaro I learned to drive a stick on in 1975, or even the '83 280ZX or '85 Saab 900T I used to happily row. Let alone the AO1, AP2, or S2KCR I have test driven.
I still say the answer as you pointed out is not to give up on manuals but to make them better.
I have often missed a manual when in an automatic. Never once missed an automatic when driving a manual. On paper, today's automatics rule. On paper, a 4,000 lb plus 'sports' car with enough power to run a city is better than my 3,100 lb 306 hp Honda, let alone that 2,195 lb 138 hp MR2-S I had. But you can keep it. I know what true driving joy is. And it starts with the basics. Modern manuals are not all they could be. But they are the best hope we have. F1? Sure, when I am actually driving a formula car. Taking your hand off the wheel at over 200 mph to shift is suicide. But for the speeds we actually drive off track, manuals work just fine.
great treatment of a very polarized subject matter. Well done!
I love my '10 GTI m/t. I have driven the DSG but I can't beat the engagement of the manual.
When i subscribed to savagegeese, Jessica finally let me keep all my child support money. I now have the permission to see my kids again too! Much love.
For me, a small car with a tiny engine just feels better as a manual like my Suzuki Jimny (Samurai) where the revvy little engine just likes to sing alongside the very precise manual gearbox. Anything medium to large though and give me the automatic any day. You're so right where a lot of the 8-10 speed auto boxes are just so good now and even the consumer DSGs in GTI's are just something I never thought I'd see at that price point since they perform so well. What can go die in a fire though are CVTs.
I absolutely love the S2000 that transmission has one of the shortest throws from gear to gear the only thing that moves is your wrist it's amazing!! I wished I never watched this video I've been online looking up S2000's to buy now I miss my old one they are really special cars. Well done sir always putting out great content 👏
One thing Savage didn't bring up is that historically manual transmissions were considered a the budget friendly option as they were usually cheaper than early gen automatics. This was a double whammy for driving enthusiasts who got both superior driving dynamics and better prices (with a healthy dash of smugness vs. 'lazy' auto drivers 'wasting' their money). This makes it even harder to invest in modern manuals because there is an expectation still that manuals demand a lower price inherently.
The CVT would have been a $1350 option on my 2023 Crosstrek.
No point paying extra for something I prefer to do for myself.
MANUAL TILL I DIEEEEEE!
Yeah keep driving your 90s honda
@@frontspring1 You'll get sent to Gapplebees 😭
@@frontspring1it'll probably be a lot more fun to drive at "normal" speeds than any EV in the future will be.
@@frontspring1 my car is 2019. It has 3 pedals
@@frontspring1 fuckin right I will
Thanks for this in-depth critique.
Awesome Mark! It’s really sad that’s it come to this but like you said, not many companies want to put in the effort and dedication to make an excellent manual transmission. Sure you can still get quite a few manuals today but a lot of them suck! I’m putting that mildly. I own a Miata 30th Anniversary RF and it’s got one of the best manuals you can buy at any price. My whole arm and hand feel every shift and you get that visceral feeling. Great video and love the LC500 btw 👍🏾
Had a DSG MK5 GTI, and got a six-speed 2007 model to replace it. Older manuals were just more analog- and while the stick isn't the greatest it's an engaging and fun car to drive. The rev-hang of modern ECUs makes driving a new manual weird for me.
Yeah, I hate that electronic nannying.
In my 2000 Corolla 1.6 I even had some weird stuff never heard of before that the dealership couldn't make sense of either. When driving high-speed and high-rev on the autobahn and then pressing the clutch, the engine would sometimes, and too rarely to reproduce, keep the revs at that high level, for seconds, and then veeeery slowly start decreasing it and eventually, after maybe 20 seconds, drop to idle. - I assumed it's some modern VVT-i engine shit about combustion chamber temperature or such.
In the future, SavageGosling will present "Auto-Pilot vs Human Driver - Fine Print" .
And the same points will be advocated: "But Daddy Goose, my auto-pilot lap-times were much faster and Auto-pilots are so much safer, my insurance is cheaper".
I call bullshit on all the automation. And that goes for you too, infotainment!
It´s not even funny. Thinking about this near future makes me sad.
Laziness. It's an instant gratification society where you get pissed if your drive thru experience took more than 5 minutes. Everyone seems to blame poor work ethic on the millennials, but in reality we are the ones that created phone it in ambitions for them. I will take solace in knowing that my manual transmission is an excellent theft deterrent though.
I read that last line in a Jimmy Stewart voice as when he says that "that goes for you too" to Potters assistant.
I love the manual in my car - its one of the good ones you mentioned. My previous daily driver was an automatic and I just didn't like it. I hated the way the paddles worked with the transmission and I just didn't feel engaged with the driving experience. I guess I really like driving and want to feel like I'm doing more than holding the steering wheel. Even on my daily driving running errands and stuff I have a great time shifting gears.
"I guess I really like driving and want to feel like I'm doing more than holding the steering wheel. Even on my daily driving running errands and stuff I have a great time shifting gears." This comment exactly!
@@crosstolerance I test-drove a Subaru Crosstrek with CVT (no manual available for test-drive).
The CVT felt like rubber bands, even worse than the six-speed torque converter trans in my company vehicle.
I ordered a manual six-speed Crosstrek.
It was a three-month wait between order and delivery, but it was worth it.
It shifts a bit clunky compared with my 2013 Frontier, but it feels connected instead of like a bowl of oatmeal.
My highway mileage after 1500 miles is 35 mpg (US) and around 28 city.
I own an Mt82 trans, and still happy with that. Dying to drive Gt350/Mach 1 Tremec
Best Auto Trans I have driven is the ZF in a M240i, and still is more enjoyable my Mt82.
But great thoughts and analysis, great content in general
Worst thing about modern manuals is rev hang it literally ruins the whole experience
Yeah, it's the low-cost reason for manual, because it takes away what makes manual interesting.
And these days Hyundai has some shitty granny-assisted manual they of course call 'intelligent' which operates the clutch for you.
Worried about rev hang? You should try a B5 S4 lol it NEEDS more rev hang.
@@jaypers232 i said modern like 2010 or newer lol
Fully agree. I have a 2010 Matrix XRS that I drive as a daily and it makes me miss my 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT that I have sitting in a garage, mainly because of the annoying rev hang. I felt much more connected to the throttle with my 3000GT. The 2006 Mazdaspeed 6 that I use to have also felt pretty good for a modern car though, surprisingly.
@@isabelle.c011 you think I can read?
Up next week: "Why I love modern SUV's so much"
No one can deny the brilliance of the ZF 8-speed
To have a torque-converted auto that has now replaced some DCT vehicles, truly incredible. ZF's 8 Speed is just something else.
I love manuals but the ZF 8 speed is the best automatic on the market. I have a BMW and a Ram truck both with the ZF 8 speed.
I have the zf6 combined with a v8 and it's still pretty decent. I don't race it or anything but rather using it to control shift pointss. No where near as fun as a third pedal
I can. I have one in my BMW F30 3 series, and it shifts like a dog until it warms up. I have to build in a half second for the clutches to grab when turning from my residential street to a higher speed arterial. The delay routinely causes me to scream at the transmission, when a clutch disc would have been glued to the flywheel almost instantly when I released the left pedal.
It also has a nasty tendency to lie about which gear it's in when in manual mode. Example: I perform a California stop at an intersection in my neighborhood with high visibility. I shift the transmission down to M2 and intend to take off in that gear with diesel torque. But despite showing M2, the gears are back in 1 and the transmission does an off the books shift from 1 to 2 before I start accelerating again. Little lying sack of shit.
Had this car been offered with a stick in the US the way it was in Germany, I would have gotten it from the start. Since it wasn't, I'm stuck with the unappealing prospect of performing the sex change myself with an imported English transmission.
@@herrbrahms Have you had the software updated? My F10 shifts were terrible until I updated the software
I think most manual diehards forget that clutch engagement/feedback and shifter feel also matters as well.
You’ve got a point. I kept reading about the new Corolla because most reviews seemed positive. I drove it, and I was disappointed. Clutch was so light and numb, and the gears were super tall. Then drove the new Mazda 3 with a manual, and it was a night and day difference. I think I’d still take a bad manual over an average automatic, though. In the Corolla’s case, definitely the manual over the CVT. But there are much better manuals in that class.
@@pascutia yeah I drove one myself at a Toyotafest meet when they first came out the clutch has absolutely zero engagement feedback, throws felt long. Honda/Mazda are the ones that really know how to make MT.
@@pascutia Wow, it's strange for me to read that! I bought a new 6-speed 2020 Corolla hatchback SE last year, as my first manual car. I wasn't able to drive it, but I read in reviews that the car is the easiest to drive for new learners, so I took a chance. Dealership drove it to my home after I wrote the check, in case you were wondering. Anyway, I can say all the reviews were right. It was super easy to learn to drive it. Finding the bite point wasn't too hard, once I finally learned where it was. I much appreciate the auto rev match and brake hold as well. You wrote that the clutch was numb and the gears were tall, and I have no clue what you mean. This the only manual car I've ever driven, I have nothing to compare against it, and I know no different. But speaking from the perspective of someone who wanted to learn to drive stick, I would highly recommend the new Corolla to anyone else who wants to learn to drive a manual, no matter who they are or their age. I'm 36 years old, by the way.
@@hamsterama Props to you for buying a manual without knowing how to drive stick!! Yeah, I agree. It’s a great car to learn on because of all the features it has added to make shifting smoother. Basically, I was referring to it being somewhat difficult to gauge the bite point easily. Other manuals you can pretty easily feel in the clutch pedal when it picks up. It was hard to be smooth with it because I found the pedal to be super light compared to other manuals. Too heavy of a clutch isn’t good, but the two cars that I regularly get to drive that are manuals have a much more obvious bite point. With regards to gearing, the engine in the Corolla makes most of its power up top (which is cool), but the long gearing makes it feel slower than it should be. The Mazda 3 I brought up has shorter gearing, and the engine starts to make peak torque earlier in the rev-range. This leads to getting in the power band quicker therefore acceleration feels more effortless. Either way, the Corolla with a stick is way more fun than the CVT.
@@pascutia Thanks for your reply! I should probably mention that I wear shoes with thin soles whenever I drive the Corolla. If I wear "regular" shoes, like sneakers, I tend to stall because I can't feel where the clutch bites. So, come to think of it, you're right about the bite point not being obvious. But wearing shoes with thin soles is an easy workaround. And you're definitely correct about the long gearing. For example, shifting to third gear is a slow process. Mostly because second gear is really slow and makes a lot of noise, but not a lot of speed. It feels like there's a huge difference between second and third gear. Definitely my automatic 2009 Yaris accelerates faster from a stop than I can with my Corolla. But the Corolla is a very pleasant highway cruiser. I mostly drive it on the highway, so having the power up top is better suited for my driving anyway. In any case, I'm happy to join the exclusive stick shift club! In the days after I bought the Corolla, I wondered if I made a mistake, buying a brand new car I didn't know how to drive. But I'm glad I took the risk, because it's just so much fun!
I have never purchased an automatic. My next new car will be a manual. It is simply more fun. Great video!
As someone who doesn't own a manual and never will, I say go for it. It's all about what makes you happy.
@@carena8478 agreed.
I went from a 2013 ralliart with the SST to a 2014 Evo X GSR, to a 2015 STI, which I still currently own and love. Loved the auto as well as my manuals.
Bought my new Impreza MT last April and love it......
My first car was a 2000 Toyota Celica GT-S and I loved that car to death-it was painfully underpowered but it was a 6-speed manual and it looked fast. I drove it from 2000 to 2013 but moving forward, I switched to an automatic and I have never looked back.
It’s a drivers preference and as I get older, it’s no longer a priority and a “must” on my list of things I have to have when buying a new vehicle. There will always be those who firmly believe that in order to be connected to the vehicle, it must be a manual.
People can agree to disagree.
With EVs and other alternative vehicles coming online, the ICEs will fade away and some day we can all sit around in retirement homes and reminisce about how “back in my day, I drove a stick”.
Stay safe everyone and have a nice day.
Yep.
I subscribed to SavageGeese and I immediately got a robo call asking me if I was interested in extending my car warranty on my '13 Buick Verano that has only 58,000 miles on it! SavageGeese really does care about his subscribers!
Thank you for making this video. Very important topic and there's still too many car enthusiasts out there being snobs about new cars with automatic transmissions
I agree but I've driven cvt/auto and manual versions of civics, 86s/brz, ecoboost & mustangs, bmws etc. and I can see why people are snobs. Some companies don't put much effort in their some of their auto gearboxes (Mustang gt 10 spd in an exception). The ecoboost mustang auto is completely outshined by its manual counterpart. Same with the 86. It's just better with a manual. And the reason is because manufacturers want to attract everyone to their brand at the cost of building a dull, lifeless laggy auto gearbox.
Awesome video I own a 2018 m550 8 spd auto and 2020 m4 Heritage edition 6 spd. I love them both. Thanks for for sharing very interesting.
Great video!! My last manual car was a 99 Civic Si, it wasn't a fast or expensive car, but so engaging to shift through the gears.
Around that same time, turn-of-the-century, I was telling people “I’ll never own a manual transmission again”. Too painful for city driving. So far I’ve completely lived up to that. If there’s a car I would have considered, like the civic si, that it is only available with a manual, it’s off my list.
I've been driving for more years than I care to admit, and have never bought an automatic (though I owned a couple through inheritance, didn't drive them much before selling them, and I'm saddled with an automatic company-issue vehicle).
I have even driven manuals daily while recovering from leg fractures (hip in 2001, knee in 2005, ankle in 2008-2009)
I found myself in gridlock traffic three times in the past week two to three hours at a time, driving a six-speed Subaru Crosstrek.
I've found that what makes city driving painful is not the manual, it's the traffic.
Yeah, the clutch in my '74 Coronet felt like a leg-press machine and the shifter hung up going from first to second, ditto the '70 Buick Estate Wagon, but shifting has always been part of driving, and the imitation-manual automatics I have driven are worst-of-both-worlds.
@@5610winston wow, i’m amazed you know how to post a comment on RUclips with your reactionary attitude towards automatics!Congrats!
This video comes off so saddd. But u can tell you really care about this topic and it's emotional for you. It's really cool to see a genuine and real perspective on the car transmission market today. Good stuff :)
Love your thoughts and opinions and arguments! I want to learn manual transmission, it’s nice to learn, but also, I do want to drive those vintage cars. I always tell my friend, why open a business to be charity.
So I've been noodling on this a lot recently, because I actually wanted to manual swap my A90 Supra as a channel project. I actually figured out every part I needed, did all the research necessary to figure out what modifications needed to be made, and even found a source for every single part. But before I pulled the trigger on a fairly costly niche project, I wanted to get an estimation of what the car would drive like. So I calculated out the gear ratios based off of the two transmission options I had, and then decided to drive the two cars that it would be closest to, which were the M240i and M340i.
I must have forgotten what BMW manuals felt like though, because once I drove it I realized that it was far from what I was expecting. The shifter legitimately feels like a plastic toy, like I'm racing on a Logitech G27 in Gran Turismo. That potentially could be fixed with bushings and a shifter kit, but then the biggest trouble was the gear ratios. With the combination of the swapped manual and the A90 Supra's final drive, the gearing would have been so horribly long, that I would have barely had the opportunity to shift the damn thing.
That's when I realized that the ZF8's short and snappy gearing might actually amount to a more fun overall experience than a manual would have, allowing the engine to go through the rev range more rapidly and create a more exciting and involving experience, as opposed to shifting into second and leaving it there on the manual.
If Toyota spent the money to develop a gearset/final drive that worked well on the street/highway and on track, then perhaps a manual A90 Supra would be a viable option. But as Mark said, spending potentially millions of dollars to sell a handful of cars just doesn't fly with running a profitable business, no matter how much we like to moan and complain about manufacturers not making enthusiast products. And me spending 8-10k to make my car worse to drive certainly doesn't fly with me being able to pay my bills at the end of the month, no matter how much the RUclips comments yells at me to swap the car.
So my Supra, along with everyone else's Supra, stays automatic for now. And I have a feeling it'll stay that way forever....
There's a company in Texas that is doing manual swaps on the new Supra, with a warranty. But they charge $30k (not counting the cost of the car). Forget their name