@@bagfaceman1656 She's not an Est at all. Her bases are ok and she's a Manakete. Est's always start pretty bad but have growths to make them better. She starts decent and will always be decent.
I used Athos and Canas because although Athos has 30 Magic, my Canas actually had enough speed to double. 20 Magic though. So together, Athos did 30, Canas did 40
Not like Ena and Nasir and Naesala and Tibarn have been around all game in FE9, am I right? Oh they are around as early as chapter 11 and 12 cutscenes? Nah, that can't be it.
I'd argue Yodel shluld also qualify. But best Gotoh is Cath when recruited in Zephiel's chapter. Also, in my CFplaythrough, I got to the final chapter, and then the Jeritza update came out. So he served as my Gotoh.
Same, I was on Tailtean plains chapter in crimson flower and Jeritza was in my monastery exploration that month. Completely forgot that he would be added via free update so I didn't wait to start CF and got him so late into the run. And he joined with insane base stats.
Commenting to flesh out details on games that Mekkah is less familiar with and to provide opinions / insight on a few things: 1. FE12 Nagi is pretty okay on H2 if you don't use Warp; she needs +3 str on base to OHKO everything in chapter 23 which you can achieve with an Energy Drop or Drill Grounds (which manaketes break pretty hard). But if you Warp then she's obviously useless. On H3 and above she can't enemy phase and she needs +5 str on base to OHKO dragons, which is pretty unreasonable. But she can get player phase kills with Longbow chip or enemy phase chip. 6 mov is bad too. You can make her work though, and she can take a hit on H4. 2. FE11 Gotoh is really bad on H5 if you don't cheese it. There's a bunch of things that one round him. In terms of his role in cheesing endgame, he's like one of the FE12 clerics but with some flexibility. I think he and FE11 Nagi belong in C tier; Nagi is really similar to Ena if you think about it. 3. FE9 endgame royals are so, so bad. They start far away from Ashnard. Giffca does 15 per round, Tibarn does 10, and Naesala does 4x2. Naesala is so garbage because he gets 2HKO'd and doesn't outdamage Ashnard's healing. You can't put any skills on them or invest stat boosters beforehand so they would be useless in 0% growths. They are E tier but Naesala is especially bad. 4. I think it would be justifiable to drop Galzus to A; he has pretty similar availability to the lions and overall does kind of the same things.
@@emmetth3726 Early bosses are bullshit, I've come to appreciate the maps more though. They should've been more ambitious about a few map and item changes like FE12 did and it would've been a great mode.
@@lordtullus9942 0% growths is a hypothetical scenario where the Player has the worst luck in the world and their units never gain stats upon gaining levels.
8:19 It's an interesting theory, but it's wrong. In FE1, dragonstones will simply never run out, in FE3, you use it to transform on the map for a certain amount of turns, so wether your manakete double or not won't affect your dragonstones (and if I remember correctly, Tiki and Bantu never double in FE3 anyway). So you should think that in FE11 and 12, double would affect your dragonstones uses since it's pretty much like a weapon, right ? But no, you only use a dragonstone when your manakete is transforming in battle, so if you double, you will only consume one use (even if you don't retaliate, so if Tiki or Nagi are getting hit by a sniper or any other not 1 range ennemy, you will lose 1 use of your stone)
@@vanjagalovic3621 Sheeda / Shiida is an older, more literal translation while Caeda is the official translation, so yes it probably should be Caeda now
Saias deserves so much better from the series honestly. He's the only playable major holy blood character to never get their holy weapon and we never truly get to learn about him despite him being part of the Grannvale royal family (illegitimately), Mareeta's savior, and considered the best tactician in Jurgdral
@@nojo7564 I wasn't counting them because they don't canonically have major holy blood unlike Saias and even if they did they can still get Balmung through the glitch though it is a good point
Swarm or 'Worm' wasn't even a siege tome in FE1. It's merely a really powerful tome (second strongest after Aura). Just wanted to point that out. Gotoh also says that's he no match for Medeus but can make short work his minions so the game's even telling you about him being not good against Medeus.
in fe1, he actually can beat medeus fairly easily (though not in fe11). he can double medeus with both thoron and swarm, and will kill medeus in four hits of thoron (or one hit and one crit) or with three hits of swarm. unfortunately, since medeus's earthstone blocks all 2-range attacks, gotoh does have to risk being counterattacked; thankfully, he has the defence to take two hits from medeus without dying.
@ryangallagher9723 i thought Medius in FE 1 was immune to magic? 2 range, yes. But I don't know. I've only beaten FE 1 a single time and I killed medeus with Roshea.
Athos is god tier. Every 8 year old playing FE for the first time with all trash lords + Hawkeye + Pent + maxed out Marcus + level 2 Nils needed that Athos carry so hard
@@NoclafPain lmao Karel* Although I'm pretty sure she could kick butt in fe6 RR since she can demand to speak to Zephiel's manager, forcing him to realize that destroying humanity is terrible customer service, getting him fired, and preventing the rise of Iduun
Except in Three Houses. Anyone with a bow can be good in that game. You can even use a magic bow plus Hunters Volley for magic units. Not that you should. You just can.
GMPH There are a few exceptions like Gaiden/Echoes (seriously bow users are pretty op in that game), Shinon (PoR), Takumi and 3Houses. Outside of those few though it’s pretty clear archers are BAD.
no, he's a gotoh pretending to be a jagen. the only reason people think he's a jagen is because shadows of valentia added a prologue where he's controllable and kills every enemy on the map effortlessly (except maybe slayde, but that's just because he's standing on a grave that gives him a stupid amount of avoid). in gaiden, he was a straightforward gotoh: a high-level unit with awesome bases who doesn't show up until right at the end of act 4, so you only have duma temple and the final map left to use him. that's the key difference between gotohs and jagens: availability. jagens are gotohs that join you near the beginning of the game, which makes them far more useful. mycen can't really be considered a jagen because he's absent for over 90% of the game and isn't there to help you during the difficult early parts. gaiden and echoes actually don't have a jagen. alm and lukas are the closest things you have to jagens, since they have good bases, near-perfect availability due to being available in every act except act 2 because of its celica-focused nature, and growths that are terrible by the standards of any fire emblem game that isn't gaiden or echoes, because in the context of gaiden, alm's mediocre growth rates are actually some of the best in the game. (seriously, gaiden growth rates are so egregiously awful that they don't even make sense, considering the whole point of the game was to give fire emblem players the chance to watch their units grow. they make thracia 776's growth rates look like awakening. even est, the character known for her high growth rates, doesn't have a single stat with a growth rate more reliable than a coin flip.)
@@ryangallagher9723Est is somewhat useful in gaiden, but yes. It's funny that the highest growth in gaiden isn't est's defense, but Zeke's 60% speed growth. XD
I know Karel isn't all that useful, but daym. Putting him below a little girl with 5 magic and C staves that can easily be wrecked by the dragon reinforcements spam seems a bit overkill.
In FE3 Book 2, I found it almost impossible to keep Maria and Ellis alive. Maria because of her awful hp (FE3 dragons ignore defenses, so hp is the only relevant stat to tanking a hit, though their accuracy is kinda meh too), causing the earth dragons to aim at her, and Ellis because of the location she's in being prone to dragon attacks. Also, the again staff in that game requires 20 weapon level (max), and rescue is Yumina only (and that's assuming you haven't used it up by then), so none of the staff users have all that much ultilty. At best, I can only see them potentially healing units attacking Medeus once before you finish the game. This mostly applies to FE3 specifically though, iirc, FE12 doesn't have character locked weapons, and uses weapon ranks instead of a weapon level stat
yeah, the endgame bishops (elice, nyna, maria, and lena) are almost completely useless. they're basically non-units who are only there for story purposes. at best, they just spam fortify for a few turns to help you stay alive while you kill medeus. at least karel can destroy the endgame manaketes with durandal if you don't have anyone else with S rank in swords for some reason, like if rutger is dead or untrained (but why would that ever happen?). oh yeah, and he also has the minor perk of being useful for more than a third of a chapter.
only if you're bad Recently managed to beat FE12 Lunatic without Again, though it took copious amount of forged weapon use. On the lower difficulties you don't need forges at all and can just destroy them with strong weaponry on Enemy Phase - you need forges on Lunatic because of the 2 range dragonbreath ruining your day.
@@skull7641 1. his bases aren't that good, worse than Oliver's and Bastian's 2. he comes underleveled (mid 2nd promotion when your team should be third) at the very end of.part 3 He's an est
@@troybaker3556 idk man, i've seen some people claim zeiss of all people is an est. at least in hard mode, his bases are fantastic (except maybe his mediocre speed) and can easily hold his own. he does need a bit of favouritism to start fighting well, but if you can get him to level 10 and promote him with an elysian whip, he becomes a respectable combat unit, and even without favouritism, being a wyvern rider gives him fantastic utility, so he doesn't need babying to be useful at all. he's not as good as melady, but no one is as good as her. really, the est archetype is so broad and poorly defined that you could claim FE6 karel is a fucking est if you wanted to.
Why is this the last one? You haven’t even made a tier list for micro-Jagens, units that join early and unpromoted and about on-par with your lord but at level 2 or 3 instead of level 1.
8:18 But in this case, DSFE dragonstones don't work like that. They spend 1 use PER ROUND OF COMBAT, even if they double or don't even attack (get a javelin thrown at them). If they transform in battle, they spend one use of the stone
One thing I want to point out: In PoR maniac mode, Nasir is very pivotal in the final map not only just for Ashnard. That whole map is really challenging no matter how strong Ike is because there are actually several choke points to keep in order to not let your units accidentally die. Nasir can be a great tank there.
Kind of weird that you didn't mention that FE11 Gotoh is essentially a magic ballistician with better move since he comes with the only obtainable Swarm tome in that game too, and ballisticians are automatic 5-star units in that game even in spite of their low stats and movement simply because of their ability to hit from 10 range. It's also worth noting that both versions DO come with an extra fortify staff, which is something. I don't know how to tell you this, but the four healers from the final chapter of FE3 are not Gotohs. They're obstacles that you have two options for how to move out of the way, and one of those options just happens to turn them blue, at least in FE3. In FE12 they are completely invaluable because since the rescue staff is no longer Yumina's prf, you can give one to, say, Sirius, have him rush up and recruit Nyna, then have her take the staff, bring up Merric, recruit Elice, rinse, lather, and repeat, and finish by summoning in Marth to hit the big scary dragon with his sword, get danced by the again staff to try again, then reset if he didn't crit one of those times. I don't think it's super fair to judge any FE1 or 3 characters for being unable to kill Medeus (either incarnation) since Kaga very clearly intended for it to only be realistically possible for Marth, what with the Falchion being the only weapon in the game that could do effective damage against his 35 (!) defence (in a game where defence normally caps at 20).
You don't seem to be judging the FE9 characters properly. Or at least, not looking at them more openly, I should say. Nasir has better stats than Ena except if you fiddle with Ena's stats using BEXP or just get severely lucky; I'd rather throw stat boosters on him than Ena because I usually don't have BEXP to spare to level Ena all the way up. Even if I did have BEXP, usually I find better targets than Ena. Your logic was "If you beat the Black Knight, your Ike is probably stronger so then you probably need Ena more." But that doesn't make sense; that has no bearing on how you can really cheese Ashnard because you get Resolve during Chapter 27 and can't equip it until after the Black Knight fight. Furthermore, the Black Knight fight, from what I recall, is mostly dictated by RNG either by using Aether or just perhaps giving Ike Wrath early and hoping he crits. Also, the Black Knight can just cheese you by procing Luna - not a terrible spot but you might run out of turns due to unlucky Luna proc. Nasir is a strictly better unit than Ena in pretty much every sense of the word as far as I can tell so why is he not better? If your Ike is worse, Ena can be more useful relative to the party's implied weakness. But Ena really can't fight Ashnard at base level afaik; Nasir can tank two hits and can avoid being doubled so he's a good use of Laguz Stones in the final chapter. Even if you give him the Demi Band, if you give him one speed wing he should be fine and not get doubled by Ashnard after his two levels (or if you want to chance it, 45% speed growth is just shy of +1 average speed but you can rely on it well enough; I can't recall his -speed amount though). Can't say the same about Ena's capabilities without massive effort. She might seem more useful to a weaker overall team or perhaps maybe to complement a weaker Ike but that just seems absolutely wrong. Where does she fit that Nasir wouldn't? Is she supposed to soak up all the EXP and BEXP? How will you get her to remain transformed; use of Laguz Stones or use of Demi Band? Why grind a unit when you have one that's already better. I'm not saying that you don't know this, but the point you used just seems lackluster. Also, contrary to what you're saying, the map is pretty big and I don't believe that all the enemy units should be dead by the time you draw Ashnard's aggro, due to the largeness of the map, unless you play extremely slow. (If we count Maniac mode, there is absolutely no way lol; but let's assume Hard mode). You will probably wipe out the remaining stragglers soon (most likely within a turn, two maybe?) after Ashnard moves. As for the Royals, your logic semi-holds up. They definitely aren't really "fail-safes" in the same way Nasir and Ena are, where you can train them up a bit before hand, but they are definitely the "Oh crap!" buttons, especially on a first playthrough where someone might not know Ashnard revives and starts to move. But even if they're just "Oh crap!" buttons, they're good buttons to press. You are given the option to decline any help; but why would you? It's a free unit who can do damage to an enemy that can go rampant around the map. It just seems weird to hear you talk like this because you're usually an advocate of more overkill being the correct amount of kill, particularly when you talk about Paladins and Draco Knights/ Wyvern Knights. *Wouldn't call Royals the best class in the game due to lack of 1-2 range and only niche, small timeframe on the team, but they come in to do one thing only and they 2/3 of them do it with ease which makes them one of the three characters that can fight the Mad King, ergo one of "the best" to deal with him. To go on with that, though, I wouldn't consider them the "best" Gotohs but definitely serviceable. And this isn't to say I would change their placement on their tierlist but I feel that your arguments weren't as on point with these characters as they could have been. Final comments: In regards to the Royals' combat, Giffca does not double Ashnard unless you give him three speedwings. There are exactly three in the entire game and there is one in the last chapter on Bryce. That would be saccing three turns against Mad Ashnard just so Giffca could double; at that point, just use him to maul the guy. From what I recall of my last playthrough, Giffca does 15 damage. Tibarn cannot double unless given two speed wings; Naesala can double naturally but his damage is pitiful. In theory, Giffca can do insane damage if he can double but it would require too many turns to ramp up. Naesala, could, in theory, also ramp up. But, saving buffs til the endgame seems like a straight up waste so I usually pick Giffca. If I'm not mistaken, even though Tibarn only hits once his base STR is +6 compared to Naesala's (including transformation bonuses; their weapons are same might) so he basically does the same, if not a little more, damage. 15 damage is significant to a boss with 80 HP, as that's 3/16 (18.75% dmg) in one hit and thus, I'd actually call that huge damage. Again, I'd like to stress that they aren't really top tier Gotohs or anything like that, I don't think any of them are as good as Nasir. But Giffca really does contribute a lot to the part he comes in for, relative to his two other Royal peers and Nasir can't fight Ashnard as well as him without some Skill changes, so it seems odd when you spent time talking about the purpose of these characters being to fight Ashnard that you put them much lower than Ena. Edit: One argument I hadn't thought about is where they spawn as well; forgot that all three Royals spawn near the bottom of the map, if I'm not mistaken. They might not save any of your other units from Ashnard so I can definitely see that as a point against them. Ena can be more useful overall to the run, the more I thought about it, but definitely not against Ashnard, which seemed to be your focus in this video. I do think that Ena, however, has extremely lackluster stats for her join-time (namely her speed being a ludicrous 15 or so; can't recall exactly). She is a serviceable meat-shield in some respects but I fail to imagine her being more useful than Nasir in any situation.
Fun fact if Vannesa is the wyvern lord class and has enough strenght (this can be achieved with support and statboosters if you got RNG screwed), she can OHKO the final boss with triangle attack
@@vanjagalovic3621 I think someone made a video with Wyvern Knight Vanessa in 0% growths killing the final boss with a triangle attack pierce Vidofnir hit
Forget warp in Tiki/Nagi. I warped in Marth and got crits with Falchion. After the Hell that was playing Shadow Dragon DS as my introduction to the series doing that to the titular shadow dragon was the most epic yet anticlimactic thing I've probably ever seen in a video game. Although Medeus didn't live up to the hype Marth most certainly did for me. Granted I wasn't playing on the hardest difficulty because it was my first time playing a Fire Emblem game (And pretty much my first time playing a strategy game in general. Didn't really get any experience with the genre until much later in life.), but that memory will stick with me for the rest of my life and definitely has given me a pretty high opinion of Marth.
Can you do a tier list for the lord/main characters of every Fire Emblem game? However you analyze them as characters and not as units, so you can stretch your creative legs. You can rate them on how they would fit in the game's narrative, what you like in a main character, and stuff like that.
I have a theory that either gotoh (gato) gets to do another aum stave or ritual for nagi using a lot of his energy or even sacrifices himself to get tiki sister or adult tiki if go go for that theory.
I'm sure someone's said this already, but I'd say there's more to the Gotoh archetype than late jointime. The FE3 Bishops and Ena join late, but they're all pretty subpar and weren't put in the game for the sake of saving your playthrough
19:03 which chapter does Galzus appear on turn 69 (unless you're joking) I know he appears in chapter 5 if you kill too many enemies in the arena, and he appears in chapter 6 after 15 turns. Kinda surprised you didn't put Lehran, but since he's a secret character I understand.
35:10 They do? I’ve always just rushed Tibarn to Izuka and killed him turn 2. Why the fuck would I want to route again after 5 route chapters in a row?
Man threw this on to listen to while driving home from work, and spent the first 40 minutes or so just wondering how tf Athos wasn't a Gotoh archtype character XD
I remember I would always hand Tiki the Falchion in the chapter just before this and get her killed to satisfy the condition for the map. Then Aum staff her during the Gaiden chapter.
@@thetr1noob783 Thing is, doing it this way will let you play 24x, while still having the regular version of the Falchion (since the one holding it dying causes the items were holding to be sent to the convoy at the end of the chapter, and apparently the condition for the gaiden chapter is checked before that), as opposed to the nerfed one this gaiden chapter gives you to replace it.
FE12, 11, 2, 8, 7, and 6 are all fantastic. 2 and 11 are the best, with notable mentions to FE 12 since the game is harder. Not having to train est or even catria to get palla to 1 shot anything in the game is nuts
You could have also added Michalis based on his join time. I would rank him low C. He can fight with good physical stats, but he has low luck and res against a roster filled with sorcerers, swordmasters, and berserkers. At least, he can use brave weapons if you want to avoid counter attacks
Neither Ryoma nor Xander are usually considered Gotohs. They join pretty much midway through, and there are still a few recruitable characters on each side after them, not to mention the kid units, some of whom are likely to be recruited after they join. I’d compare them more to Pent, Percival, Ced (FE4), Tanith (FE9), Dean (FE5), Harken, and Ilios as crazy strong midgame combat filler prepromotes.
Honestly I prefer Cyas over Ced solely due to the fact that by the point you can make the choice, a lot of what Ced can do other units can (like orkoing dreadlords, wrath + nos linoan for EP, Asvel for blizzard). My rng is hilariously bad and considering how volatile lategame thracia hitrates get, i'll take literally any hitrate boost I can get. Tho without growths Ced all the way
I don't really agree that Saias's leadership stars do much. In chapter 24, just about every enemy that Galzus doesn't fight is a dark mage with 0 AS. Same with 24x unless you play it straight. And in endgame it matters for a couple of deadlords, but most of them should be cheesed with status.
I think it's goddamn hilarious that you rate Karel mostly by how he exists adjacent to boots. Not that it's wrong or anything. Also, Yodel is a Gotoh. You saw Mangs's ironman, he joined capped with two maps left lol.
Just want to mention in regards to the fe9 laguz royals: my Ike was very bad and barely escaped doubles from first form ashnard, but got demolished by second form since he got doubled. Giffca helped immensely because he could do damage without dying. Just a situation where even though getting through form 1 was doable, form 2 was impossible without their help.
bexp is so silly in radiant dawn with the forced boost in normal (because you have so much) yeah I had fun using Bexp to up skrimmir from 25 to 40 (before reloading I was just curious) he capped EVERYTHING except luck, yes 80 capped hp. So if you drop a seraph robe he caps every single stat (if you care about luck max ofc which seems not very worth it but eh kinda funny)
Mycen is really good because in gaiden he kills most mooks and can help in stalling the mini-bosses in the final chapter at the far left corner with a self-healing item like a holy ring
What are you talking about? Mycen is pretty decent against the final boss. Also warp is pretty much unlimited in that game, you can just warp him into there and he can handle all enemies for a few enemy phases.
Meqqah. Why RD laguz royals are Gotohs? I think the units that should be considered Gotohs in RD are: Black Knight for Part 1, Gareth, Nasir and Sephiran for Endgame. On the contrary, you can still train the Laguz Royals outside of the tower, giving them another Edge over Gotohs.
@@marcodimartino2810 the laguz royals contribute way more in endgame than gareth or nasir could ever dream of. gareth and nasir are basically only good for support due to their poor stats compared to the enemies (gareth can power up your units with blood tide, while nasir can be a decent tank against the enemy spirits with his massive resistance and can contribute chip damage with his breath). the laguz royals play a role much more akin to a traditional gotoh: kicking ass and taking names in the tower of guidance if your units are too pathetic to get the job done (though even if you have a good team, there's no harm in making it even better by deploying the royals). plus, their availability is pretty bad even by radiant dawn standards, most of them not joining you until part 4 (nailah is briefly available in part 1, though you could consider her the gotoh of the dawn brigade arc because of that) and caineghis only becoming available in the first chapter of part 4's endgame. i say they fit the gotoh archetype like a glove.
@@ryangallagher9723 yes, very true. I was just pointing out to the fact that technically Laguz Royals on RD aren’t Gotohs. For royal laguzes i’m superconflicted. Don’t get me wrong, they are Formshifters and superpowerful. But lack of 2 range from E-3 is really felt. I always prefer to bring in normal Laguz when i’m in mood for a challenge, while if I want to rush the Tower i bring it Archsages and a Marskmam to trivialize E-2 and E-3
@marcodimartino2810 the only Ghoto I would count apart from dragon bros and Lerahn, would be Chainegis... lion king, and maybe Renning. They don't join until endgame.
I feel like there's an argument to be made that basilio and flavia are gotohs in awakening. But also I absolutely don't expect anybody to actually have experience using them lmao (also maybe yodel from FE6? idk)
Can you do a best single chapter performances list (and maybe except the first 5 chapters of every game - otherwise it would just be seth chapter 1 markus chapter 1) it would still be seth chapter 6 but maybe that would make the list better
Even with a bad Ike, Ena is STILL worse than Nasir. Not only does she get one rounded, she also is unable to even deal damage to him due to her low strength. You need to either level her up (in the final chapter btw) or save statboosters for her. FE9 is totally balanced! If you have a screwed Ike you’re unable to finish the game. Amazing. She should be E tier for sure.
You have two chapters to level her up, and she should be given Wrath and Resolve if Ike can't fight Ashnard. This is basically necessary for girls only playthroughs.
She joins earlier than in the final chapter, and yes as I said, you need to put resources into her to fight the final boss. But if your Ike sucks the option of doing that is worth a lot more than if your Ike managed to beat the BK.
Where is Lehran he literally join the final chapter of fe 10, yeah he might be awful because he's only available under specific conditions but I still think he counts
The difference is Gary invalidates all your other axe users not named Liquid, while Frederick's only competition is Kevin who might either equal or surpass him by that point.
I always thought of basilio and flavio were kind of an athos type character especially whem units die off in lunatic and you need someone just to fill in idk tho
Neasala is the weakest but he has that wind move but i needed grifca and i dont remember that being a thing i had the kings for the whole fight on hard mode im pretty sure
The FE8 Gotoh was meant to be Seth but they screwed up and made him join in the prologue
it's so true that it's unfunny
So Seth he broke the recruitment order
I guess it's technically Myrrh but she's also an Est.
Tbh Syrene would be a balanced Jagen
@@bagfaceman1656 She's not an Est at all. Her bases are ok and she's a Manakete. Est's always start pretty bad but have growths to make them better. She starts decent and will always be decent.
I guess Athos was the Gotoh of this video.
I was literally scanning the comments to see if he forgot him half ways through watching
Everybody gangsta till athos gets a Luna tome.
I mean if u give him 2 body rings and 2 speedwings he can double the fire dragon.
@@aburriiiiiiiiiiido IIRC he only needs one or two total, even on HHM
@@aburriiiiiiiiiiido Just give him that Angel Robe first.
@@davidwhidden9337 Fire Dragon doesn't have stat variance does he?
I used Athos and Canas because although Athos has 30 Magic, my Canas actually had enough speed to double. 20 Magic though. So together, Athos did 30, Canas did 40
When the gotoh tier list doesn't have the most well known character from it's archetype, Athos, at the beginning
Mekkah put him in the thumbnail though which is weird
He comes in at the end
@@RainM8 like a true gotoh
"You don't need anything in Fire Emblem"
--Mekkah 2020
No-unit LTC run when?
So Athos was around. But he never actually joined you until the very end of this video?
So, basically exactly like the Gotoh archetype?
Not like Ena and Nasir and Naesala and Tibarn have been around all game in FE9, am I right? Oh they are around as early as chapter 11 and 12 cutscenes? Nah, that can't be it.
I'd argue Yodel shluld also qualify. But best Gotoh is Cath when recruited in Zephiel's chapter.
Also, in my CFplaythrough, I got to the final chapter, and then the Jeritza update came out. So he served as my Gotoh.
Same, I was on Tailtean plains chapter in crimson flower and Jeritza was in my monastery exploration that month. Completely forgot that he would be added via free update so I didn't wait to start CF and got him so late into the run. And he joined with insane base stats.
doesn't he join in the beginning of Part 2? if so, he doesn't count
Yodel and also Renault are basically equivalent in terms of usage (and Mekkah forgot both of them)
You can get Cath there too ?
@@227someguy he's talking about his own personal experience where he was already at the end of the game when the Jeritza update came out.
Commenting to flesh out details on games that Mekkah is less familiar with and to provide opinions / insight on a few things:
1. FE12 Nagi is pretty okay on H2 if you don't use Warp; she needs +3 str on base to OHKO everything in chapter 23 which you can achieve with an Energy Drop or Drill Grounds (which manaketes break pretty hard). But if you Warp then she's obviously useless. On H3 and above she can't enemy phase and she needs +5 str on base to OHKO dragons, which is pretty unreasonable. But she can get player phase kills with Longbow chip or enemy phase chip. 6 mov is bad too. You can make her work though, and she can take a hit on H4.
2. FE11 Gotoh is really bad on H5 if you don't cheese it. There's a bunch of things that one round him. In terms of his role in cheesing endgame, he's like one of the FE12 clerics but with some flexibility. I think he and FE11 Nagi belong in C tier; Nagi is really similar to Ena if you think about it.
3. FE9 endgame royals are so, so bad. They start far away from Ashnard. Giffca does 15 per round, Tibarn does 10, and Naesala does 4x2. Naesala is so garbage because he gets 2HKO'd and doesn't outdamage Ashnard's healing. You can't put any skills on them or invest stat boosters beforehand so they would be useless in 0% growths. They are E tier but Naesala is especially bad.
4. I think it would be justifiable to drop Galzus to A; he has pretty similar availability to the lions and overall does kind of the same things.
dondon151 I know you did H5 0% so obviously you must enjoy it somewhat, but what are your thoughts on H5 as a difficulty in Shadow Dragon?
@@emmetth3726 Early bosses are bullshit, I've come to appreciate the maps more though. They should've been more ambitious about a few map and item changes like FE12 did and it would've been a great mode.
0% growths isn't possible without hacking. That argument is invalid.
@@lordtullus9942 0% growths is a hypothetical scenario where the Player has the worst luck in the world and their units never gain stats upon gaining levels.
@@lordtullus9942 wat
8:19 It's an interesting theory, but it's wrong. In FE1, dragonstones will simply never run out, in FE3, you use it to transform on the map for a certain amount of turns, so wether your manakete double or not won't affect your dragonstones (and if I remember correctly, Tiki and Bantu never double in FE3 anyway). So you should think that in FE11 and 12, double would affect your dragonstones uses since it's pretty much like a weapon, right ? But no, you only use a dragonstone when your manakete is transforming in battle, so if you double, you will only consume one use (even if you don't retaliate, so if Tiki or Nagi are getting hit by a sniper or any other not 1 range ennemy, you will lose 1 use of your stone)
When a guy hates FE7 so much he straight up forgets Athos exists.
Also, an interesting tier list would be the "Shiidas" or earlygame pegasus knights (ex: Clair, Shanna, Florina, Karin, etc)
birthright subaki would be dead last in that list
Isn't it written Caeda instead of Shiida?
Vanessa, Sumia, Marcia
@@vanjagalovic3621
Sheeda / Shiida is an older, more literal translation while Caeda is the official translation, so yes it probably should be Caeda now
@@blunderbus2695 She's still called Shiida in some languages, so both work I guess
Saias deserves so much better from the series honestly. He's the only playable major holy blood character to never get their holy weapon and we never truly get to learn about him despite him being part of the Grannvale royal family (illegitimately), Mareeta's savior, and considered the best tactician in Jurgdral
Deirdre doesn’t get Naga, but yeah, it would’ve been nice to see a little more from him
@@RockstarEddie-rk1rm Completely forgot that Deirdre didnt get Naga and i blame Heroes for giving it to her lol thanks for the correction!
Ulster and larcei only get balmung in a glitch
Still ended up in heroes before Ced
@@nojo7564 I wasn't counting them because they don't canonically have major holy blood unlike Saias and even if they did they can still get Balmung through the glitch though it is a good point
Imagine doing a Mangs’pitfalls and miserable fails tier list (like forgot to heal Marcus, yolo with Isadora, Eliwood missing a 92%
Crib your enthusiasm
trying to rescue elincia would be up there
Using the Arena at any point
Moving Jill back to get healing instead of arriving.
@@Shredkowski who even wants to sit through his fails more than once
Swarm or 'Worm' wasn't even a siege tome in FE1. It's merely a really powerful tome (second strongest after Aura). Just wanted to point that out. Gotoh also says that's he no match for Medeus but can make short work his minions so the game's even telling you about him being not good against Medeus.
in fe1, he actually can beat medeus fairly easily (though not in fe11). he can double medeus with both thoron and swarm, and will kill medeus in four hits of thoron (or one hit and one crit) or with three hits of swarm. unfortunately, since medeus's earthstone blocks all 2-range attacks, gotoh does have to risk being counterattacked; thankfully, he has the defence to take two hits from medeus without dying.
@ryangallagher9723 i thought Medius in FE 1 was immune to magic? 2 range, yes. But I don't know. I've only beaten FE 1 a single time and I killed medeus with Roshea.
Athos is god tier. Every 8 year old playing FE for the first time with all trash lords + Hawkeye + Pent + maxed out Marcus + level 2 Nils needed that Athos carry so hard
Reverse recruitment all-star tier list
Karen wins
Graeme Tang Athos is terrible in reverse recruitment
@@venixilinehasfailed8001 the one I've been playing just gave him growths that give him is vanilla stats on average and it's a blast
Novae she took the kids
@@NoclafPain lmao Karel*
Although I'm pretty sure she could kick butt in fe6 RR since she can demand to speak to Zephiel's manager, forcing him to realize that destroying humanity is terrible customer service, getting him fired, and preventing the rise of Iduun
The least loved units list : an Archer tierlist
Except in Three Houses. Anyone with a bow can be good in that game. You can even use a magic bow plus Hunters Volley for magic units. Not that you should. You just can.
Excluding Takumi and RD Shinon
i thhink a lot of ppl like archers, but well...
they are archers.
I would love to see this list, because I'm an unapologetic archer fanboy.
GMPH There are a few exceptions like Gaiden/Echoes (seriously bow users are pretty op in that game), Shinon (PoR), Takumi and 3Houses.
Outside of those few though it’s pretty clear archers are BAD.
Mycen is just a Jagen pretending to be Gotoh.
Reverse Seth, where Seth is a Gotoh pretending to be a Jagen
mycen was great against the final boss for me since he was bulky enough to tank some duma shit
@@theogilbert38 But then he sucks for after game in echoes cause his growths are shit
no, he's a gotoh pretending to be a jagen. the only reason people think he's a jagen is because shadows of valentia added a prologue where he's controllable and kills every enemy on the map effortlessly (except maybe slayde, but that's just because he's standing on a grave that gives him a stupid amount of avoid). in gaiden, he was a straightforward gotoh: a high-level unit with awesome bases who doesn't show up until right at the end of act 4, so you only have duma temple and the final map left to use him. that's the key difference between gotohs and jagens: availability. jagens are gotohs that join you near the beginning of the game, which makes them far more useful. mycen can't really be considered a jagen because he's absent for over 90% of the game and isn't there to help you during the difficult early parts. gaiden and echoes actually don't have a jagen. alm and lukas are the closest things you have to jagens, since they have good bases, near-perfect availability due to being available in every act except act 2 because of its celica-focused nature, and growths that are terrible by the standards of any fire emblem game that isn't gaiden or echoes, because in the context of gaiden, alm's mediocre growth rates are actually some of the best in the game. (seriously, gaiden growth rates are so egregiously awful that they don't even make sense, considering the whole point of the game was to give fire emblem players the chance to watch their units grow. they make thracia 776's growth rates look like awakening. even est, the character known for her high growth rates, doesn't have a single stat with a growth rate more reliable than a coin flip.)
@@ryangallagher9723Est is somewhat useful in gaiden, but yes. It's funny that the highest growth in gaiden isn't est's defense, but Zeke's 60% speed growth. XD
A villains tier list would be fun to watch. Your opinions on them and maybe how difficult you'd consider them without a form of cheese.
I know Karel isn't all that useful, but daym. Putting him below a little girl with 5 magic and C staves that can easily be wrecked by the dragon reinforcements spam seems a bit overkill.
In FE3 Book 2, I found it almost impossible to keep Maria and Ellis alive. Maria because of her awful hp (FE3 dragons ignore defenses, so hp is the only relevant stat to tanking a hit, though their accuracy is kinda meh too), causing the earth dragons to aim at her, and Ellis because of the location she's in being prone to dragon attacks. Also, the again staff in that game requires 20 weapon level (max), and rescue is Yumina only (and that's assuming you haven't used it up by then), so none of the staff users have all that much ultilty. At best, I can only see them potentially healing units attacking Medeus once before you finish the game.
This mostly applies to FE3 specifically though, iirc, FE12 doesn't have character locked weapons, and uses weapon ranks instead of a weapon level stat
@@AceDefective3 Use Dancer or kill the final boss the same turn you recruited the sisters. I know because I have beaten FE3 a week ago.
yeah, the endgame bishops (elice, nyna, maria, and lena) are almost completely useless. they're basically non-units who are only there for story purposes. at best, they just spam fortify for a few turns to help you stay alive while you kill medeus. at least karel can destroy the endgame manaketes with durandal if you don't have anyone else with S rank in swords for some reason, like if rutger is dead or untrained (but why would that ever happen?). oh yeah, and he also has the minor perk of being useful for more than a third of a chapter.
@@AceDefective3 You need to preserve the Again Staff for the last chapter to get all the Bishops to survive.
only if you're bad
Recently managed to beat FE12 Lunatic without Again, though it took copious amount of forged weapon use. On the lower difficulties you don't need forges at all and can just destroy them with strong weaponry on Enemy Phase - you need forges on Lunatic because of the 2 range dragonbreath ruining your day.
I remember as a kid I was so blown away by Athos. Thank God for him too. All my lords sucked and I had a maxed Marcus. Good times haha
I haven't finished the video yet but wouldn't sephiran be considered a gotoh as well? I don't see him on the list
Secret characters don't count? He left Pelleas off the Est tier list too
@@troybaker3556 I guess that works I never thought of pelleas as an est honestly lol
Troy Baker his bases are too good lol
@@skull7641 1. his bases aren't that good, worse than Oliver's and Bastian's
2. he comes underleveled (mid 2nd promotion when your team should be third) at the very end of.part 3
He's an est
@@troybaker3556 idk man, i've seen some people claim zeiss of all people is an est. at least in hard mode, his bases are fantastic (except maybe his mediocre speed) and can easily hold his own. he does need a bit of favouritism to start fighting well, but if you can get him to level 10 and promote him with an elysian whip, he becomes a respectable combat unit, and even without favouritism, being a wyvern rider gives him fantastic utility, so he doesn't need babying to be useful at all. he's not as good as melady, but no one is as good as her. really, the est archetype is so broad and poorly defined that you could claim FE6 karel is a fucking est if you wanted to.
Why is this the last one? You haven’t even made a tier list for micro-Jagens, units that join early and unpromoted and about on-par with your lord but at level 2 or 3 instead of level 1.
And what about Nega-Jeigans who join late and unpromoted
Strawberry Juice? Wait why does that one sound familiar?
I think he used that title to describe the Gotoh archetype. It’s a really good unit at the final stretch of the game
Don't consider Basilio & Flavia gotoh's?
8:18 But in this case, DSFE dragonstones don't work like that. They spend 1 use PER ROUND OF COMBAT, even if they double or don't even attack (get a javelin thrown at them).
If they transform in battle, they spend one use of the stone
It’s interesting that FE8, Awakening, and 3H don’t really have Ghotos. Maybe it’s because those are games you can grind in, so you shouldn’t need one.
Seth is both your Marcus and Gotoh in FE8. That's how good he is
The Potato True
I'd say Flavia and Basilio count as Gotohs, considering their late join time and impressive stats.
3h have duedue in a routes as gotoh, in Other emile and in other seiros.
Alejandro Rodolfo Mendez desure in that route joins early for a gotoh imo and in general doesnt feel like a gotoh imo
ah yes cat my favorite archetype
One thing I want to point out: In PoR maniac mode, Nasir is very pivotal in the final map not only just for Ashnard. That whole map is really challenging no matter how strong Ike is because there are actually several choke points to keep in order to not let your units accidentally die. Nasir can be a great tank there.
Ah, some of my favorite characters
Amazing video as always! Could you do a vid like this with the Main Lords of the series? I'd love to hear your opinion on them!
Kind of weird that you didn't mention that FE11 Gotoh is essentially a magic ballistician with better move since he comes with the only obtainable Swarm tome in that game too, and ballisticians are automatic 5-star units in that game even in spite of their low stats and movement simply because of their ability to hit from 10 range. It's also worth noting that both versions DO come with an extra fortify staff, which is something.
I don't know how to tell you this, but the four healers from the final chapter of FE3 are not Gotohs. They're obstacles that you have two options for how to move out of the way, and one of those options just happens to turn them blue, at least in FE3. In FE12 they are completely invaluable because since the rescue staff is no longer Yumina's prf, you can give one to, say, Sirius, have him rush up and recruit Nyna, then have her take the staff, bring up Merric, recruit Elice, rinse, lather, and repeat, and finish by summoning in Marth to hit the big scary dragon with his sword, get danced by the again staff to try again, then reset if he didn't crit one of those times.
I don't think it's super fair to judge any FE1 or 3 characters for being unable to kill Medeus (either incarnation) since Kaga very clearly intended for it to only be realistically possible for Marth, what with the Falchion being the only weapon in the game that could do effective damage against his 35 (!) defence (in a game where defence normally caps at 20).
meme tier list
How actually good are Dorcas, Radd, Ronan, Gordin and all the others
Roger Roger
Gordin gets FIVE POINTS
Duothimir On a scale of 1-100 Gordon would be FFFF tier loool
Ronan is good because he can sleep with all the devs wives
You don't seem to be judging the FE9 characters properly. Or at least, not looking at them more openly, I should say.
Nasir has better stats than Ena except if you fiddle with Ena's stats using BEXP or just get severely lucky; I'd rather throw stat boosters on him than Ena because I usually don't have BEXP to spare to level Ena all the way up. Even if I did have BEXP, usually I find better targets than Ena.
Your logic was "If you beat the Black Knight, your Ike is probably stronger so then you probably need Ena more." But that doesn't make sense; that has no bearing on how you can really cheese Ashnard because you get Resolve during Chapter 27 and can't equip it until after the Black Knight fight. Furthermore, the Black Knight fight, from what I recall, is mostly dictated by RNG either by using Aether or just perhaps giving Ike Wrath early and hoping he crits. Also, the Black Knight can just cheese you by procing Luna - not a terrible spot but you might run out of turns due to unlucky Luna proc.
Nasir is a strictly better unit than Ena in pretty much every sense of the word as far as I can tell so why is he not better? If your Ike is worse, Ena can be more useful relative to the party's implied weakness. But Ena really can't fight Ashnard at base level afaik; Nasir can tank two hits and can avoid being doubled so he's a good use of Laguz Stones in the final chapter. Even if you give him the Demi Band, if you give him one speed wing he should be fine and not get doubled by Ashnard after his two levels (or if you want to chance it, 45% speed growth is just shy of +1 average speed but you can rely on it well enough; I can't recall his -speed amount though).
Can't say the same about Ena's capabilities without massive effort. She might seem more useful to a weaker overall team or perhaps maybe to complement a weaker Ike but that just seems absolutely wrong. Where does she fit that Nasir wouldn't? Is she supposed to soak up all the EXP and BEXP? How will you get her to remain transformed; use of Laguz Stones or use of Demi Band? Why grind a unit when you have one that's already better.
I'm not saying that you don't know this, but the point you used just seems lackluster.
Also, contrary to what you're saying, the map is pretty big and I don't believe that all the enemy units should be dead by the time you draw Ashnard's aggro, due to the largeness of the map, unless you play extremely slow. (If we count Maniac mode, there is absolutely no way lol; but let's assume Hard mode). You will probably wipe out the remaining stragglers soon (most likely within a turn, two maybe?) after Ashnard moves.
As for the Royals, your logic semi-holds up. They definitely aren't really "fail-safes" in the same way Nasir and Ena are, where you can train them up a bit before hand, but they are definitely the "Oh crap!" buttons, especially on a first playthrough where someone might not know Ashnard revives and starts to move. But even if they're just "Oh crap!" buttons, they're good buttons to press. You are given the option to decline any help; but why would you? It's a free unit who can do damage to an enemy that can go rampant around the map.
It just seems weird to hear you talk like this because you're usually an advocate of more overkill being the correct amount of kill, particularly when you talk about Paladins and Draco Knights/ Wyvern Knights. *Wouldn't call Royals the best class in the game due to lack of 1-2 range and only niche, small timeframe on the team, but they come in to do one thing only and they 2/3 of them do it with ease which makes them one of the three characters that can fight the Mad King, ergo one of "the best" to deal with him.
To go on with that, though, I wouldn't consider them the "best" Gotohs but definitely serviceable. And this isn't to say I would change their placement on their tierlist but I feel that your arguments weren't as on point with these characters as they could have been.
Final comments: In regards to the Royals' combat, Giffca does not double Ashnard unless you give him three speedwings. There are exactly three in the entire game and there is one in the last chapter on Bryce. That would be saccing three turns against Mad Ashnard just so Giffca could double; at that point, just use him to maul the guy. From what I recall of my last playthrough, Giffca does 15 damage. Tibarn cannot double unless given two speed wings; Naesala can double naturally but his damage is pitiful.
In theory, Giffca can do insane damage if he can double but it would require too many turns to ramp up. Naesala, could, in theory, also ramp up. But, saving buffs til the endgame seems like a straight up waste so I usually pick Giffca. If I'm not mistaken, even though Tibarn only hits once his base STR is +6 compared to Naesala's (including transformation bonuses; their weapons are same might) so he basically does the same, if not a little more, damage.
15 damage is significant to a boss with 80 HP, as that's 3/16 (18.75% dmg) in one hit and thus, I'd actually call that huge damage.
Again, I'd like to stress that they aren't really top tier Gotohs or anything like that, I don't think any of them are as good as Nasir. But Giffca really does contribute a lot to the part he comes in for, relative to his two other Royal peers and Nasir can't fight Ashnard as well as him without some Skill changes, so it seems odd when you spent time talking about the purpose of these characters being to fight Ashnard that you put them much lower than Ena.
Edit: One argument I hadn't thought about is where they spawn as well; forgot that all three Royals spawn near the bottom of the map, if I'm not mistaken. They might not save any of your other units from Ashnard so I can definitely see that as a point against them. Ena can be more useful overall to the run, the more I thought about it, but definitely not against Ashnard, which seemed to be your focus in this video.
I do think that Ena, however, has extremely lackluster stats for her join-time (namely her speed being a ludicrous 15 or so; can't recall exactly). She is a serviceable meat-shield in some respects but I fail to imagine her being more useful than Nasir in any situation.
Checks description and sees "(sorry Athos)." Basilio, Flavia, Gunther, and Shiro in the corner going "SORRY ATHOS!!! WHAT ABOUT US?!?!"
Gunther is trash and doesn't help sooooo
What about Renning?
Joseph Broering I was just thinking the same!! Like seriously where is he? Lol
Zepherdun in the trash where he belongs
Heh gotteem
Renning, just as the laguz royals, is not a Gotoh. I do not understand why the royals are here, not asking myself why Duke Renning isn’t.
what ABOUT renning? he doesn't do shit besides replace someone who might have died.
Remember the last playable character you recruit in Sacred Stones that helps you clean the path and beat the demon king? Yeah, Syrene.
Triangle Attack is all we need.
Syrene, the unkillable god, slayer of the demon king, and rumoured daughter of Loptous himself
Fun fact if Vannesa is the wyvern lord class and has enough strenght (this can be achieved with support and statboosters if you got RNG screwed), she can OHKO the final boss with triangle attack
@@vanjagalovic3621
I think someone made a video with Wyvern Knight Vanessa in 0% growths killing the final boss with a triangle attack pierce Vidofnir hit
Forget warp in Tiki/Nagi. I warped in Marth and got crits with Falchion. After the Hell that was playing Shadow Dragon DS as my introduction to the series doing that to the titular shadow dragon was the most epic yet anticlimactic thing I've probably ever seen in a video game. Although Medeus didn't live up to the hype Marth most certainly did for me. Granted I wasn't playing on the hardest difficulty because it was my first time playing a Fire Emblem game (And pretty much my first time playing a strategy game in general. Didn't really get any experience with the genre until much later in life.), but that memory will stick with me for the rest of my life and definitely has given me a pretty high opinion of Marth.
Can you do a tier list for the lord/main characters of every Fire Emblem game? However you analyze them as characters and not as units, so you can stretch your creative legs. You can rate them on how they would fit in the game's narrative, what you like in a main character, and stuff like that.
On the lords tier list, will you include Kelik, Shon, and Anakin
Athos: A similar unit that Out-Gotoh's Gotoh and easily takes on the Next-To-Last Boss with his personal Starlight-throwback tome.
36:13 ish aw hell yeah, that good ole Caneighis Music
Early game myrmidon/mean sword boy tier list next, perhaps?
He did a navarre tier list
I have a theory that either gotoh (gato) gets to do another aum stave or ritual for nagi using a lot of his energy or even sacrifices himself to get tiki sister or adult tiki if go go for that theory.
I'm sure someone's said this already, but I'd say there's more to the Gotoh archetype than late jointime. The FE3 Bishops and Ena join late, but they're all pretty subpar and weren't put in the game for the sake of saving your playthrough
19:03 which chapter does Galzus appear on turn 69 (unless you're joking) I know he appears in chapter 5 if you kill too many enemies in the arena, and he appears in chapter 6 after 15 turns.
Kinda surprised you didn't put Lehran, but since he's a secret character I understand.
35:10 They do? I’ve always just rushed Tibarn to Izuka and killed him turn 2. Why the fuck would I want to route again after 5 route chapters in a row?
Man threw this on to listen to while driving home from work, and spent the first 40 minutes or so just wondering how tf Athos wasn't a Gotoh archtype character XD
Fun fact: You actually can get 24x of Shadow Dragon if you do have Falchion but not Tiki.
I remember I would always hand Tiki the Falchion in the chapter just before this and get her killed to satisfy the condition for the map. Then Aum staff her during the Gaiden chapter.
Laggalot101 wow. I need to do that just for memes
@@thetr1noob783 Thing is, doing it this way will let you play 24x, while still having the regular version of the Falchion (since the one holding it dying causes the items were holding to be sent to the convoy at the end of the chapter, and apparently the condition for the gaiden chapter is checked before that), as opposed to the nerfed one this gaiden chapter gives you to replace it.
@@laggalot1012
So you can get TWO falchions
@@chrisf.9595 Yes, though since Marth is the only one who can use them, the second one isn't really good for anything at that point.
Smh so sad to see the ✨best✨unit of fe1 not here; the staff locked user that doesn’t even spawn with an actual healing staff
I want to see a triangle attack tier list Bonus points if you want to go the extra mile class them by initiators.
FE12, 11, 2, 8, 7, and 6 are all fantastic. 2 and 11 are the best, with notable mentions to FE 12 since the game is harder. Not having to train est or even catria to get palla to 1 shot anything in the game is nuts
>Puts all 4 Hostages from Fire Emblem New Mystery as Gotah's ...
> Does not put Athos.
GG Mekkah.
Why wasnt Athos rated at all?
Edit: Got to the end of the video.
You could have also added Michalis based on his join time. I would rank him low C. He can fight with good physical stats, but he has low luck and res against a roster filled with sorcerers, swordmasters, and berserkers. At least, he can use brave weapons if you want to avoid counter attacks
Huh. Michalis being a ghoto makes sense. Like 22 in all stats except res and magic, lol
Mekkah, where is Sephiran......
Next I would like to see a tier list for Pegasi!
Nailah being around for 9 damn chapters is just insane. It's so nice that she joins that early.
it's not as nice considering she goes away for 90% of the game.
@ryangallagher9723 but if she were around it would take away the challenge. And the game
Where TF is Ryoma and Xander for that S++ Tier ?
Also you forgot Nomah from Celica's Route.
They aren’t THAT late game, more like midway through
ryoma comes around before the halfway point of birthright
Neither Ryoma nor Xander are usually considered Gotohs. They join pretty much midway through, and there are still a few recruitable characters on each side after them, not to mention the kid units, some of whom are likely to be recruited after they join.
I’d compare them more to Pent, Percival, Ced (FE4), Tanith (FE9), Dean (FE5), Harken, and Ilios as crazy strong midgame combat filler prepromotes.
Isana joins later than them
Nomah joins before zeke and Tatiana join Alm's route so he wouldn't count as a Gotoh
Where's my boy Renault?
Honestly I prefer Cyas over Ced solely due to the fact that by the point you can make the choice, a lot of what Ced can do other units can (like orkoing dreadlords, wrath + nos linoan for EP, Asvel for blizzard). My rng is hilariously bad and considering how volatile lategame thracia hitrates get, i'll take literally any hitrate boost I can get. Tho without growths Ced all the way
I don't really agree that Saias's leadership stars do much. In chapter 24, just about every enemy that Galzus doesn't fight is a dark mage with 0 AS. Same with 24x unless you play it straight. And in endgame it matters for a couple of deadlords, but most of them should be cheesed with status.
all the thracia characters...are top tier..i see you mekkah, i see what youre trying to do
I think it's goddamn hilarious that you rate Karel mostly by how he exists adjacent to boots. Not that it's wrong or anything.
Also, Yodel is a Gotoh. You saw Mangs's ironman, he joined capped with two maps left lol.
Serious question why are Basilio and Flavia not considered gotohs?
Just want to mention in regards to the fe9 laguz royals: my Ike was very bad and barely escaped doubles from first form ashnard, but got demolished by second form since he got doubled. Giffca helped immensely because he could do damage without dying. Just a situation where even though getting through form 1 was doable, form 2 was impossible without their help.
Wait the laguz royals can hurt ashnard?
Um excuse me where is mangs on this list?!?!?
Tier list for midgame prepromotes? Like Pent, FE4 Ced, Saleh, Perceval, Duessel, Jeritza, Seteth, etc.
Is this the mega jeigan tier list?
Or maybe ests who are also old
That Tear joke always makes me laugh
I managed to make Ced bad at combat
I'm playing FE4 Randomized and something went wrong with Ced and he crashes the game when he enters combat
Weeping Dalek This happens to me too so Imma just drop this comment in case someone can answer it
@@LMANPAD I'm not sure what causes this, I honestly just leave him in the castle because I don't wanna risk having Enemy Phase crash the game
bexp is so silly in radiant dawn with the forced boost in normal (because you have so much) yeah
I had fun using Bexp to up skrimmir from 25 to 40 (before reloading I was just curious) he capped EVERYTHING except luck, yes 80 capped hp. So if you drop a seraph robe he caps every single stat (if you care about luck max ofc which seems not very worth it but eh kinda funny)
Why you gotta do my boy Mycen dirthy like this.
Mycen is really good because in gaiden he kills most mooks and can help in stalling the mini-bosses in the final chapter at the far left corner with a self-healing item like a holy ring
What are you talking about? Mycen is pretty decent against the final boss. Also warp is pretty much unlimited in that game, you can just warp him into there and he can handle all enemies for a few enemy phases.
Meqqah. Why RD laguz royals are Gotohs? I think the units that should be considered Gotohs in RD are: Black Knight for Part 1, Gareth, Nasir and Sephiran for Endgame. On the contrary, you can still train the Laguz Royals outside of the tower, giving them another Edge over Gotohs.
No Lehran? He's the most straight-forward Gotoh of FE10
Hes a secret character, he didnt put Pellius in the Est list for that reason
He’s a Gotoh indeed. And we should have Gareth and Nasir for RD, not the laguz royals
@@marcodimartino2810 the laguz royals contribute way more in endgame than gareth or nasir could ever dream of. gareth and nasir are basically only good for support due to their poor stats compared to the enemies (gareth can power up your units with blood tide, while nasir can be a decent tank against the enemy spirits with his massive resistance and can contribute chip damage with his breath). the laguz royals play a role much more akin to a traditional gotoh: kicking ass and taking names in the tower of guidance if your units are too pathetic to get the job done (though even if you have a good team, there's no harm in making it even better by deploying the royals). plus, their availability is pretty bad even by radiant dawn standards, most of them not joining you until part 4 (nailah is briefly available in part 1, though you could consider her the gotoh of the dawn brigade arc because of that) and caineghis only becoming available in the first chapter of part 4's endgame. i say they fit the gotoh archetype like a glove.
@@ryangallagher9723 yes, very true. I was just pointing out to the fact that technically Laguz Royals on RD aren’t Gotohs. For royal laguzes i’m superconflicted. Don’t get me wrong, they are Formshifters and superpowerful. But lack of 2 range from E-3 is really felt. I always prefer to bring in normal Laguz when i’m in mood for a challenge, while if I want to rush the Tower i bring it Archsages and a Marskmam to trivialize E-2 and E-3
@marcodimartino2810 the only Ghoto I would count apart from dragon bros and Lerahn, would be Chainegis... lion king, and maybe Renning. They don't join until endgame.
I feel like there's an argument to be made that basilio and flavia are gotohs in awakening. But also I absolutely don't expect anybody to actually have experience using them lmao (also maybe yodel from FE6? idk)
What about Renault in FE7?
Can you do a best single chapter performances list (and maybe except the first 5 chapters of every game - otherwise it would just be seth chapter 1 markus chapter 1)
it would still be seth chapter 6 but maybe that would make the list better
got an idea for a really long tier list, the arran and samson tier list
Even with a bad Ike, Ena is STILL worse than Nasir. Not only does she get one rounded, she also is unable to even deal damage to him due to her low strength. You need to either level her up (in the final chapter btw) or save statboosters for her. FE9 is totally balanced! If you have a screwed Ike you’re unable to finish the game. Amazing.
She should be E tier for sure.
You have two chapters to level her up, and she should be given Wrath and Resolve if Ike can't fight Ashnard. This is basically necessary for girls only playthroughs.
She joins earlier than in the final chapter, and yes as I said, you need to put resources into her to fight the final boss. But if your Ike sucks the option of doing that is worth a lot more than if your Ike managed to beat the BK.
@42:57 Mekkah says you shouldn't use something? I woulda thought that was a pitfall for sure...
Ranked runs encourage pitfall play
What are the background songs?
What about Athos, Karla, Renault, and Rhea as well as Nomah from Echoes?
Karla and Renault are most certainly not Gotohs
@@NickKrishnan how come?
@@thegreatfirebolt1815
They aren't good
@@eevee1583 so? The whole point of this video is to say that
Yeah the way these archetypes work are pretty dumb. There’s a list of them on the wiki if you want to see which units qualify for what archetype.
I mean tbf the 4 sisters from fe1/3 are good for the final boss
*literally*
Where is Lehran he literally join the final chapter of fe 10, yeah he might be awful because he's only available under specific conditions but I still think he counts
Song at 2:27?
Oh my Duma, Nomah got lost again on his way to this tier list.
His availability is too high.
He is also garbage in echoes
You put in fe10 tibarn who’s available in part 4 but not sephiran who’s more like gotoh than tibarn
In SoV I never use the Gradivus on anyone but zeke
It just feels wrong to give it to anyone else, he even wields it in his official art
But... Great Knight Tobin with 5 res......
I'd like to see you and mangs do a top 10 units in FE ever.
Is there a Lord Tier list yet?
You should do a manakete teir list
You should do a tier list for all the lords (but still include some of the other duotagonist characters like Robin/Kris.
That's a bit unfair since avatars like Byleth or Robin are gonna be better than most since they have more customization
Would Nomah count as the Gotoh of Celica's side?
If Gary's here, doesn't Frederick from TLP also qualify as a Gotoh? He's capable of doing fairly okay again Siegfried, iirc.
The difference is Gary invalidates all your other axe users not named Liquid, while Frederick's only competition is Kevin who might either equal or surpass him by that point.
(Notices Gary at the bottom) Ah, a man of culture I see.
0:49 i wouldn't mind that!
Radiant Dawn Sephiran?
wouldn’t Basilio & Flavia count?
I always thought of basilio and flavio were kind of an athos type character especially whem units die off in lunatic and you need someone just to fill in idk tho
Im going to throw this out here but could Arion be considered a gotoh?
Joseph Pavlack green unit
Neasala is the weakest but he has that wind move but i needed grifca and i dont remember that being a thing i had the kings for the whole fight on hard mode im pretty sure
He forgot Renault with his M A S S I V E 12 magic