Jeigan & Oifaye Tier List
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- Опубликовано: 31 дек 2019
- Ranking all of them EXP thieves according to how broken they are. Haven't seen anything this top heavy since Camilla.
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Игры
Doing me proud my boy, putting me above that old poser fart Marcus
By the Gods, he's not dead! :O
Hope you're doing well these days, DonDon.
Oh hi DonDon
The pupil has become the sage
Holy shite the legend
omg part of my thumbnail has come to life
"Havent seen anything this top heavy since Camilla"
lmao
I'm a fan of her, and I can laugh at that kind of joke.
Yes, I love this vid description so much lol
I love this joke
You mean heavy her battleax falls? ???
The physics
I dunno, Sigurd falls off real hard around the end of ch 5.
I know, right? He just becomes completely unusable past Ch. 5 smh. Bad unit.
You're joking, but the weapon inheritance system is one of the reasons why Sigurd is so good even after he, ahem, falls off after chapter 5. Slim Sword, Hero Sword, and Silver Sword with 50+ kills is one of the best things you can give your Ch. 6 army and guess who's the best candidate for training those weapons?
@@maltheopia It's a joke
@@Emiturbina I know it's a joke, but Sigurd is so good that he benefits your army even after he's dead.
@@maltheopia spoilers
"Not literally, that's what Gunter does." DEAD
i'd love a "shitty early game archer" tier list
F tiers and D tiers
Finalboss711 we can factor in meme potency to get potential higher tier units
*obligatory joke about benching rebecca*
Ronan S++ Tier
I think Ignatz is the strongest horrible archer to have ever lived.
D+ tier at least.
"Sigurd he never falls off" The Jugdral family barbecue would like to prove you wrong.
nah, he just demoted and got a weird haircut
plus it looks like he aged backwards, maybe that's just me
"Stat backpack" is the best phrase I've heard in a while
Can’t like cause number is at 69
It's got 70 likes so I had to dislike
I love how the Jeralt rating is just "I just want him around more." Yeah, daddy come home.
But he is right though. Same about Rodrigue... Or freaking Judith. Those characters could have been playable at least for a little bit of time. Three Houses is very slow at the beginning and a character who could do at least something good at the beginning is essential for harder difficulties.
Thank God jertitza is added since he saves my ass in my NG Maddening at lvl 35 with 60 hp
@@vbnm7309 They could've included him at the release day though. And Ladislava and the other guy as well. And maybe Fleche. Would be four exclusive BE characters to replace Seteth, Flayn, Cyril and Catherine. BE may be shorter but maddening is still hard.
Titania is genderbent parallel universe Seth you can't change my mind.
Very Seth
Seth can't use axes.
Checkmate
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Yeah... But you see... Parallel Universes...
@@goncalocarneiro3043 I've watched enough Getter Robo to know that no number of parallel universes can keep an axe out of the hands of someone who lives by them.
I've also watched enough Getter Robo to know that Fire Emblem's 1-2 axes are basically just Getter Robo axes, especially the Tomahawk, so it's safe to assume the same universal laws about axes apply.
So Eirika is genderbent Ike? :o
Est tier when?
on April's fools prolly
But I need my Nino fix now!
Only our Lord and Savior, Jerome, deserves anything higher than a C tier in this ranking. FE1 Est and FE8 Ross can sit on those tiers by themselves.
maltheopia I wouldn’t consider Ross an est because he joins so early, Amelia and especially Ewan on the other hand definitely are est units!
@@UrinalPissbert I can respect that definition of Est, if only because without Ross and Jerome it makes the archetype look even shittier than it already is.
Mekkah: "I know there's some odd picks in here"
Siegfried: *whistles innocently*
I wondered about this guy as well. =D
Go Home, Siegfried! You're drunk!
Doesn't Siegfried fulfill the criteria of a Jagen? I mean I heard he falls off really hard after Chapter 24
"None of them are bad"
I would argue that Gunther is pretty shit, especially non Revelation routes.
Also, make a mage killer tier list
If using him like a standard combat unit in Conquest, then yea, when compared alongside juggernauts like Camilla and Xander or your trained growth units at that point, he's underwhelming, but Gunter actually makes for great utility. His low internal level means he gains experience quickly and can nab skills from the Wyvern line before his stats start to fall off. Shelter, Rally Defense and Lunge are all solid, he flies so he doesn't get left behind, has the weapon ranks to use effective weaponry like Beast Killer and Hammer, and he gives great pair-up bonuses to Corrin with the Wyvern reclass and his personal skill, Forceful Partner. Gunter makes a good support unit at the cost of a heart seal and feeding him some kills in his re-join chapter, especially if your Corrin is male so you didn't have early Jakob around to carry you, who also falls off around this time.
I would say he is way better in conquest than rev tho
The S-tier of mage killing? FE10. Nothing killed mages harder than that game.
SSSSSS = Ronan
F = Everyone else
Ronan would top that list for sure
Jagen tier list... doesn’t start with Jagen
Literally unwatchable
Inb4 Mangs steals this idea and makes a mini Jagen tier list
Doctor Anime i mean the shitposting wars have become who can steal the other persons content better so wouldn’t be suprised
Ill be honest what is a mini Jagen
@@boldknock7436 It's an early-game unpromoted unit that starts around level 10, I think. I can't name one for the life of me, though.
@@ChoiceSnarf That probably be Finn if I'd have to bet, although he starts like level 7 I think.
@@boldknock7436
FE5 Finn yes. Also Oswin in FE7.
First you had the christmas cavs, but you didn’t expect the new year’s paladins!
Can't wait for Valentines Pairing Tier List
April Fool's Est Tier List.
Merric tiers? Camus tiers?
@@joshuagabrielcatindig7607 Merric Tiers would be Cool. Merric, Linde, Azel, Asbel, Lugh, Erk, Lute, Soren, Ricken.
All of these are you First Mages that can easily One round/ Deal heavy damage in their join time but are very squishy.
"Marth" / Lord Tier list would be pretty fun i'd assume, if only for Roy in Roy tier.
I think Erika might be worse.
Comparable, if not worse statline, being accurate matters less in FE8 anyways, promotes very late, personal weapon is bleh, gains mounted utility to be fair, but basically nothing else.
The only reason people don't tend to notice is because you can switch to Ephraim, or just use her as Seth's power limiter so other people can actually get exp.
Idk I personally think Lyn is worse
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Both of them are so bad that if I was given the option to bench them at the cost of no longer getting to field Seth/Marcus and eventually Zealot and Percival, I would gleefully take that deal. Therefore Eirika is better than Roy just because I get to bench Eirika much earlier.
Eirika is basically Lyn but with higher growths. I argue she's marginally better.
sigurd is s+
Love how Sothe, a 17 yr-old is in the “I’M OLD!” tier at the start.
Agree with pretty much every pick, only thing I’d question is why Quan/Maybe Zealot isn’t on here. Quan is arguably more of a Jagen than Sigurd, seeing as he “drops off” after chapter 3, and he is a more stagnant character, compared to Sigurd and how he keeps getting better. Zealot is kinda questionable (is there an archetype for slightly late pre promotes like Zealot/Sirius/etc?) though.
Glad you’ve decided to make this a kind of series, really enjoy these.
Backup Jaegan?
Mini Jaegan?
Some new name derived from Mekkah, Waifu, Isadora, or something, meaning an underwhelming prepromote that is still a free stack of great atributes?
5:48 I dunno Mekkah, he completely fell off for me come the end of chapter 5. It was upsetting tbh.
Sup
@@ryankeenan4425 Nice seeing you around.
M i n i
J a g e n
Where's the lightning sword from Echoes?
Okay there is literally no reason to not use that the whole game. Even growths>bases people can't argue with that.
I was thinking Clive, I mean, he doesn't come promoted but he works the same pretty much. I'll just be sure to start benching him when his lover comes around.
Lightning Sword best Jagen. I had Kliff use it like the entire game, hardly even fell off since it got to the point where it just left something as ez pickings for another, and it can't even die smh
@@kaelanmcalpine2011 Clive isn't a Jagen at all. He's just a "normal" unit who's notorious for being "5/10 not good not bad" unit. He's not dead weight but he's not doing much. Clive is just really weird.
#gaidendiditfirst
You forgot about the mini jagens!!!!!
I'm pretty sure he is just saving those for a separate mini/semi - jeigan tier list.
Remind me, what exactly is a mini-Jagen?
KamikonoHakai no he’s not. to mekkah the concept of a mini jagen is heresy
@@misterbadguy7325
Mini-Jagen is an archetype that Mangs created referring to the units that join early that are unpromoted, but have better stats/starting level
Example of those kind of units: FE5 Finn, FE6 Dieck, FE 10 Nolan
(It's not really an archetype, it's kind of a joke to trigger Mekkah)
Nah, that’s gonna be Mang’s shitpost response to these tier lists.
Mekkkah already starting off strong by uploading a tier list as his first vid in the new year. Please continue to do more of these tier lists Mekkkah.
Jeralt really should've been Three Houses' Jagen considering how tough Maddening's early game can be...
That's Dedue's job. The man is basically invincible in the early maps, even on Maddening.
Aquilenne Yeah but there’s 2 routes without Dedue.
@@Aquilenne Eh. It's true that he takes only about 2 to 3 dmg times 2,but archers and mages can really mess him up
How stupid of an idea would it be for Byleth to start off as a level 10 Mercenary and be a Sigurd type character? I always thought it was weird how the game treats her as this hardened veteran when she starts off as a level 1 commoner like everyone else.
Arachnofiend I feel like Byleth should’ve been a bit higher level, like maybe a level 5 would do, but it makes no sense that they’re lvl 1. Being a lvl 10 might be a bit overkill, but I’d see why they’d do that considering their past
Adding Jeralt to this list makes me wonder: what FE8 would be like if Orson stayed with you for the whole game? Seeing as how his stats are very similar to Seth's, imagine having two jeigans at your disposal. it would probably be completely busted.
Personally Mekkah I’d put Frederick in S tier just for how vital he is in lunatic and lunatic +
Gunter can go into F tier for being generally useless aside from avatar pair up bonus
Frederick is essential in order to carry the run until Robin goes beastmode.
Literally essential it's actually almost (if everyone misses maybe) impossible to beat lunatic+ without him. you all the other games without jagens even if it would be more difficult. Not so with frederick.
@@appelofdoom8211 Fred is amazing in part1, but kindof sucks for the rest of the game.
Others on this list don't drop off so hard. You do need him to survive the first 4 or 5 chapters.
YOSHIERIDER but he’s still there until robin can hold their own as the support bonus so I’d say bottom of S is fair personally
Agreed. Until the rest of the group can catch up, Frederick is mandatory to use.
“i won't be considering bonuses they get just because of the mechanics of the game; I'll be comparing them against their performance against their peers”
“Well Titania gets access to super-Canto and the Knight Seal which weren't available in FE7, so that makes her better than Marcus”
°_°
I’d love to see the “Bases over Growths” Champion rate the Est Archetypes...particularly Miranda from Fe5.
Kane Layng Everyone goes into F/E tier
Carrion is the only Est archetype that's worth a damn. Miranda would barely squeak by into B-Tier because the bonus she gives to Accost-user Conomoor is just that damn strong, but it requires you to go through B-route, so, nice try Miranda but no thanks.
Honestly who doesnt get schroff
FE5 Sara is considered an Est by many people, and she’s pretty much the best staff user in the game if you disregard availability.
the highest person on the est tierlist will be shadow dragon wolf. he breaks all the rules of the archetype aside from "lowish bases,good growths" and is better for it
In FE1, funnily, I would say the actual king of prepromotes is Wendell, even though he only shows up in Chapter 5 instead of Chapter 1. The thing about FE1 is that the magic stat doesn't exist; mages rely solely on the base Mt of their tomes, but in exchange, Resistance isn't really a thing either. So really, the only stats that matter for a mage are Speed (to double more often) and Weapon Level (to use strong tomes). And Wendell's Speed is 14, in a game where the cap is 20, and his Weapon Level is 10, with a 70% growth. So he can use all the strongest tomes at base, double basically everything, and because Weapon Level was one stat and Wendell's a Bishop, he can use the best staves, too, which includes FE1 Warp. He can actually kill friggin' Gharnef with just his bases, Starlight, and a vulnerary. Think if Pent showed up at the same time as Lyn, and you've got an idea of how strong FE1 Wendell is.
Jagen, on the other hand... yeah, you did a pretty good job of summing him up. FE1 is mostly a game where once your units hit a certain threshold, they can basically handle anything. Jagen is, like... not far away from that point, and feeding him a statbooster or two can push him over the edge into ORKOing the rest of the game (though he needs it, because his highest growths are 10%). But he's also a little like Arran in that the starting squad of FE1 is really strong: you have Marth, who does effective damage to 80% of the enemy roster, Caeda, who can fly and wield a silver lance at base, and Cain and Abel, who snowball ridiculously easily and start with stats only separated from Jagen by one or two points, so he doesn't really stand out much in that early stage and gets lapped pretty quickly. I would say he fits into very low A, bordering on B.
Jagen has a slightly higher amount of movement than Cain and Abel. This is pretty big as Promotion items are pretty scarce and are hard to obtain without going out of your way to getting them. I would say that Jagen really only falls off by Chapter 18 where the game gives you more prepromotes to work with.
Frederick in A tier seems pretty fine to me. Fred's stats are, a lot like other Jagens, actually very bad for his level (IIRC he's got the average stats of a unit promoted at like level 6 or something). The difference is, Awakening is a fast level up, high growths games, and that means he ends up very average or below average quickly. Really, you end up with two choices for using him: Second Seal early or not.
If you early Second Seal him, he loses his promoted class stats and so basically ends up on par with everyone else, just with some extra skills and good weapon levels. His extra internal level means he'll have the stats of like a level 10-15 unit, with the internal level of a level 10-15 unit. That's not great after a Second Seal when you can use them to quickly make anyone else become pretty OP.
Alternatively, you don't second seal him, and he ends up falling off fast due to his stat lead diminishing quickly as he levels so much more slowly. By about chapter 7 or 8, most characters you care about using have caught up statistically, and the one(s) who have gotten Second Seals will have probably more than overtaken Frederick's stat lead. By about chapter 10 or 11, Frederick is kind of underwhelming, and ends up being nothing but a pair up bot or mediocre unit.
Basically, he's got a great early game, but he falls off quickly, far more quickly than most other Jeigans on this list, either becoming basically average at the cost of a valuable resource, or a pair up bot. Or benched, possibly. I'd say in that regard, FE6 Marcus is the closest comparison, great units who make the early game manageable, but mediocre to bad by the midgame and beyond.
Yep
I would add that Frederick is the only character that can naturally learn both "Pavise" and "Aegis" so you can help patch up his potential weaknesses with second sealing. Although his growths lead much to be desired, and that second seal would be more useful for characters like Donnell or Stahl (from my experience, Stahl is OP as a Swordmaster while being overall tanky). But unlike those characters, you do not have to grind Frederick to level 10 (Donnell's case is 15). He is also essential for Lunatic and Lunatic+. Really useful if you second seal him into at least a Knight to get more defense and natural defense. A tier is good for him. Not an "S" unless you bought DLC to grind EXP, but an A tier means he did his job. The greatest part for me, after he goes into his "Paladin" and "General" class, I usually make him a Great Knight again for Luna.
@@GreyWandererXD Pavise and Aegis are pretty mediocre skills though, so I wouldn't say having access to both is any kind of relevant. Donnel and Stahl are both pretty low tier characters as well and don't even have good Second Seal options either, better Second Seal candidates are people like Robin, Miriel, Sully, Virion, Lon'qu, Panne etc. who have a very strong class they can change into and the stats to run it well. But regardless the point is that there are generally better options than reclassing Frederick, even though Fred does have Wyvern as an option.
@@ieattables If you play Lunatic+, it is a relevant feat to the character because no matter what some enemies will have Luna+. Having Pavise or Aegis proc could make it so that you take the least amount of damage possible. Which is extremely valuable if you are playing Classic Lunatic+, keeping everyone alive requires less dodge tanking like all the characters you just mentioned except Robin. Some chapters force you to tank damage, it is inevitable unless you abuse DLC to grind EXP. You are going to have to rely on Frederick pairing up with whoever you are trying to train for an arduous grind session of Frederick tanking random encounters or you summoning past heroes to fight. In theory, yes Lon'qu, Virion, and Miriel would be apt choices within being candidates of a second seal. But having Frederick second sealed allows him to keep up with everybody while getting desirable stats for the rest of the run. Although the characters you mentioned except Miriel have the Wyvern Rider class. But the problem is that some of the characters are outclassed by others. Sully is a charging frontline fighter without the most OP skill Galeforce, she gets -1 to STR and DEF while getting nice SPD and SKL. Problem is, her better secondary classes either reduce her capability of surviving a hit (but in turn more Avoid and killing Capabilities) or introduce new weaknesses. Because this game does not have Canto, Galeforce has to act as Canto for most units that are frail. Virion is actually the one I agree the most with that, any class but Archer is best for him; however, he does not compare to the Armsthrift Regnell Throwing Donnell that procs Sol every time nor the absolute tank Frederick can be in Lunatic+. Then there is Lon'qu, I do not believe Thief is the better class for him unless you just want traversal skills from both Assassin and Trickster (but Assassin is already an option in base class). Which means you are referring to the Wyvern Class as the better one. But Lon'qu does not benefit from the Wyvern Class long term beyond the breaker skill that is received, it would be best to go Swordmaster ASAP to get Astra to help him guarantee kills especially with enemies having Pavise+ sometimes. Miriel, all I remember is she had a Dark Mage class which is great for Nosferatu tanking and helps give her useful skills. I never use her, so I do not necessarily know what would be better than Tharja or Henry for that. I would say in Normal or Hard I would agree with you because you can dodge tank throughout the game without repercussions. Lunatic you can even do so, but one bad roll could be the death of the dodge tank you raised. But Lunatic+ needs units that can tank more than dodge because of the randomized skills within enemy units. That is where the combo of Pavise and Aegis shine. It helps with halving the double damage you are going to receive. Frederick is a valuable unit throughout all of Lunatic+.
31:42 good guy mekkah doesn't spoil the story.
*wheeze*
“Gunter takes the fall off later literally” I actually lol’ed omg mekkah
I am not surprised Mycen was not on the list, though good list Mekkah, love the work.
Wait
Why is jeralt here
He litteraly got OHKO'D by a boss in the first half of the game
You could also put Orson in that tier list considering how useful he can be in speedrunning/clearing the chapter fast
Orson is A tier in speedrunning, and meat shield tier in a normal run
I think Rodrigue should count as Jeigan
@@kellyjohana516
He died against a girl that looks like she has 1 strength while facing ten ennemies in the felix paralogue
Hyperius : tactician,marksman and man of culture Jeralt fits the mold of a Jagen archetype pretty well in everything except being recruitable, he's got great stats in the first map, and then decent in the next few, honestly I'd more say Byleth is more the Jagen since in higher difficulties you use them to weaken the enemies for the others to get kills but like Titania and Seth they're great units too. I wouldn't count story events since Sigurd is always scripted to die as well even with his beastly stats, Eyvel is always out of action despite hers, etc.
Orson.
Godly for speedrunninb.
Meat shield + free Silver Sword for everything else.
Ahh Frederick, the lifesaver on early-game Awakening ESPECIALLY on Lunatic+. Without him that mode is basically unbeatable at the beginning.:P
no mini jagens?
If he waited a lil bit longer he could have added Zayid from Vestaria Saga, he's on the same lvl as Dagdar and stays good through the entire game
Loving these tier list videos, Mekkah!
I really like these. You should definitely do one on earlygame archers, because that sounds like it's be hilarious.
Gunter honestly barely functions as a Jagen. Camilla would have suited the role far better, since you get her super quickly into Conquest.
Actually, Jakob would have been far better suited to this as well, since he joins at the same time as Gunter.
jakob and felicia are better jagens than gunter,yes(jakob more than felicia because she hits like a little girl)
I think he used him because he is a Jagen is the Revelation route. He’s more of a regular unit in Conquest.
I’d think Jakub would be the Jagen. Camilla joins too late and doesn’t really fit the story requirements of a Jagen. She’d be instant S tier though, she’s busted(y) as fuck.
Jakub is pretty good all game, he’s never op like some of the Jagens are. He kind of reminds me of a nerfed Oifey, early game he’s one of your best units but later on falls down the ranks. He’s never bad but he’s no longer one of your go-to units
Putting Gunter in B tier is generous. He has some utility due to the pair up mechanics, but once you have literally anyone else it's bench time. I think Camilla is more of the Jeigan of Conquest, and she'd be solidly in A tier at least.
I really want an Oifaye Avatar.
Like they could do a game with a second generation and you're not actually a playable unit until the second and in the first you're more like a child version of Mark.
Avatars are a mistake
@@eliwoodmorelikeeligood5485 I beg to differ. I just think they need to be handled better. I think Robin was a great base but just needed to be less powerful and not a secret god dragon and not the main character.
But then I'm sure you don't give a damn you just wanna complain about the new games. *How's Mark doing by the way Eliwood?*
Personally I would put Book 2 Arran below Gunter. In both CQ and Rev Gunter has flying reclass and all the pros that come with it along with easy shelter dancing strats which can help in maps in low turning maps like rev C8 or cq C24.
The issue with Book 2 Arran, and FE3 cavs in general, is the amount of obstructive terrain that screws them over. Early on this isn't much of an issue but it really starts to bite from C9-16 and towards the lategame he's not really doing anything as most maps are both indoors and warpskips anyways.
Arran is pretty decent early on because he is one of the few units that can reasonably take on the Draco Knights in Chapters 2 and 3. He also gets you the secret shop in Chapter 5. He obviously gets overshadowed by Sirius (who himself isn't exactly that great either) but is still fine early on.
“... and Ronan, who is not very strong...”
Mekkah makes tier list, Mekkah makes chart, but at the end of the day, he be breakin my heart!
Well there is the Original Jeigan, his demigod version Marcus from FE 6&7, more proeminently on 7, and the god of Jeigans Seth, to which no one really compares.
As always impressive work there Mekkkkkah.
Edit: After watching, saw i forgot the jesus on wheels while aflame tier Jeigan/Main Lord Sigurd haha,he honestly is so good he didnt feel like a jeigan.
Sigurd isn't really the Jaigen in FE4 gen 1, it's Quan. Quan fits all of the hallmarks of a Jaigen, from being prepromoted and joining in the first chapter, to limited usefulness in the long run, as he leaves after Chapter 3.
I'd argue that Catherine is the Jagen of Three Houses. Joins the earliest out of all the teachers (chapter 4). With a B support, you can get her by the Miklan difficulty spike
Except if you play the Black Eagles route, she doesn't join until the end of White Clouds if you do the Silver Snow route, or she just doesn't join at all if you do Crimson Flower, probably why she isn't on this list.
I already love this format and can't wait to see a tier list about the Est-Characters :P
About the Frederick I agree 100% with you but I want to add a few things about him.
Frederick is definitely the MVP in the early game of Awakening, until Robin get's overpowered. And he is still very useful before the timeskip in his Main Class. He can however change into a wyvern knight. And thanks to possible infinite level 1 resets through second seals no one can say that he is an exp stealer... Okay, yes you can still do that. But a lot of people instantly reclass him once they find a second seal to give him more Exp through kills. And yes he will get more but he should stay as Great Knight for a while. Idk when the perfect time for the class change is. But a little bit before the timeskip or after that should be fine. Stahl can also replace him after he is promoted to do Freddys Jobs while he is demoted. If you do that he won't have his promotion bonuses so he loses a bunch of defense. Hovwever he has good growth rates (50% Def and Spd as Wyvern Knight, so he will be able to get up to 5 points in those stats before he can promote again which gives him his lost Def bonus as Great Knight back and helps him with his speed problem a little bit) and because he is in a base tier class he will gain a good amount of Exp as well. Also he should definitly gain enough exp to get Luna before you want to change his class. The Wyvern makes him to a way more mobile unit after the Timeskip. But you could also use him as a simple pair up character to boost the defense of a weaker unit. If you pair him up with characters like Cordelia or Sumia he will be very mobile during the first chapters and gains a lot of speed. And if one of those potential wifes get's stronger they can sometimes switch roles a little bit. They wont be nearly as tanky as Freddy (less HP!) but his bonus makes their defense actually higher then his own, they're fast they can double and they can learn galeforce. I would put Cordelia a bit higher then Sumia since her slightly better physical combat. The Tank-Role will be taken by darkmages like Tharja, Henry and probably Robin during the endgame and in the endgame you probably wont him on his horse again since there are a lot of scary archers. But after the timeskip there are still a lot of situations where you want a physiscal tank. And if you do it right Frederick stays a solid unit for the entire game.
And Gunther... IMO he is a very difficult character to rank. He is around when you need him during the prologue and in this one conquest chapter. But in revelations, the only game where he could shine as a Jagen (he even has Fredericks reclass options), he falls of VERY quickly due to horrible growth rates and the existence of Oboro, Xander and all the other Prepromote-Royals. And in conquest you never use him after said chapter... So he is useful in the chapters he joins... but not really after those. Except for Pair Up Bonus... I order a new archetype called "One-Chap-Wonder!"
I would also that Frederick is the only unit that can naturally learn both "Pavise" and "Aegis" to cover up weaknesses and potential growing pains he may have when you reclass him. If you second seal him (into a Knight) he could be an amazing tank that does better than Kellam in the early game, and if you keep defeating enemies, maybe even late game. The problem will Frederick is that people rather use the second seal on Donnell, Robin, or even other units that could potentially have their weaknesses patched by a side class (or for Virion to become a Wyvern Rider). Point is, his main problem is gone after second sealing and will be about getting EXP when possible. Wyvern Rider would be good though as Speed and Defense is nice.
I’ve stopped benching the jaegens but Marcus is still permenantly my Merlinus guard in FE7 because that support dialogue is just too precious
Agree with what you said about Jeralt, Golden Deer and Black Eagles really need someone to tank some hits, luckily Blue Lions have Dedue for that, but those other houses really lack a lot of tankiness
Do an Est tier list so I can watch you get an aneurism.
Est's that can use staves = D, all others = F. Is what I assume it will look like.
@@DrewPicklesTheDark
Sophia tho
The Last Promise character tier list has to come soon right? You're onto something great with these tier lists. love hearing your input!
I recently beat Thracia 776 with the new translation and I can say for damn sure that Dagdar will last all the way through the endgame. He is only slowed down by siege tomes and ballistaes, but with how many there can be on certain maps, who the hell isn't.
Agreed. His ability of "I have more health so I will keep smacking you until you keel over" pairs too well with his stats for him to fall off.
If you consider scroll abuse or stuffing someone full of stat-boosters a viable way of playing Thracia (I normally wouldn't, but c'mon, it's Thracia), he's easily S-tier. Accost is just so damn good of an ability AND he has great movement.
Hey, question
I started Hector Normal (will do Hec Hard, but this is my first replay of 7 & my first playthrough since Fates came out) and i've been trying to dig myself out of pitfalls since my recent FE8 replays (which were fun c:)
I'm using Marcus and getting a lot out of him, doing things like Rescue Dorcas + Iron Sword to weaken enemies & taking out problematic enemies in 17x that choked my options
but I haven't been giving him boss kills like I would to Seth in the early game of fe8, and his speed is still 11.
How long will the 11 base speed carry him? Iirc his growths aren't nearly as good as Seth's (and Seth had similar bases) so while i'll still use him, I dunno how long he'll last before others surpass him
i'm currently at the Pirate Ship mission
Hearing Footsteps of Fate in a video is so good! Love it!
Also no Jakob/Felicia? They're pretty unusual as far as the archetype goes, but Jakob 1 given a heart seal is super good, and there isn't anyone that can use it better than him early game.
Agreed. Jakob becomes as good as anyone on this list if you reclass him
Nowhere near Jeigans lmao
^Has probably never played Paladin=>Wyvern lord Jakob
@@sorenfan1964 Yeah still not a Jeigan. The bases are nowhere near high enough.
Plus, at least in Jakob's case, he can share the same job as his son. Granted I would imagine having a fuckton of strategists would be overkill, but still.
Timestamps:
Sigurd: 3:04
Oifey: 6:05
Eyvel: 9:00
Dagdar: 11:24
Marcus (FE6): 12:53
Marcus (FE7): 14:17
Seth: 16:18
Titania: 18:14
Sothe: 20:14
Jagen: 22:20
Arran (both): 26:01
Frederick: 28:23
Gunter: 30:20
Jeralt: 31:05
Siegfried: 33:09
Maybe im falling into a pitfall here but i feel dagdar has it really easy in terns of fixing the "dip" you mention as the crusader scrolls growth bonuses and low caps can really help offset his weaknesses
I mean you are probably not gonna make him a magic tank but if you feel like for example you'll like him to have a little more speed then some sety scroll probably will help with that(i used the sety scroll as an exampke as you get it fairly quickly and is your primary source of speed influencing for a while
You can even give him a speed ring if you are feeling daring and completely skip what i just said
Fe5 is special in that case as it lets you customize are unit fairly easily with a little favouritism
You said that Sigurd may no longer be the second best unit in the series after Three Houses. I’m curious as to who eclipse s him because i can’t really think of any TH units on par.
The tier list we've been waiting for
Do the Main Lords!
Theory Squad damn i would love to see that with 3h out because i haven‘t seen an opinion on which lords are the best
Peter Enis Edelgard is the best
Peter Enis all the 3h lords are busted as fuck, they would all be S
@@falconstriker87 yeah ik but who is the most bustest lol I'm for Dimitri as well (may be baised)
Portal Guy nah claude has the best unique class
Is Finn not a Jeigan/Oifaye? I haven't gotten to FE5 yet so. Also Navarre archetype next?
FE7 Marcus is just amazing!
I think it'd be pretty interesting seeing an Est tier list, given how odd the archetype itself tends to be.
Thanks for the video Mekkkah
Can you do a tier list for infantry mages (Including those who can promote into a mounted class, but not begin as one)?
I don't care if you only do unpromoted ones or inlcude pre-promotes, since availability and join time are factors.
Personally I wouldn't include main characters like Celica, Robin, or Micaiah, or villagers like Kilff.
Aight, so Mekkah has done these two tier lists of mostly cavalier class lines. Furthermore, he has done mostly good units thus far. So to mess with the order of things, let's give him something weird. The Gordin Archetype tier liest.
But Maaaaaaaaaars!
Younger and Older Wyvern Bros.
The second pegasus.
The disposable early game priest.
Non-first thieves.
Manaketes
Old men and furries who join for the last chapter.
Fighter Bros
Your spoiling us with these tier lists.
Where would you put quan?
21:00 Are you saying that Brolan is kind of like a Mini-Jeigan?
We all know who's at the top. Seth.
After watching: or second.
To be fair, who could guess that Sigurd would be on the list?
I think you are underselling the fact that FE12 has reclassing while FE3 doesn't. Arran is much better in FE12 because he is your only unit with access to promoted reclassing options early, similar to Jagen in Shadow Dragon. He is worse than his FE11 counterpart because effective weapons are not as broken, but still highly useful. FE3 Arran gets outclassed rather quickly. The early cavaliers are only a couple of points behind him in all stats, and Catria even has a high enough weaponrank to use his Silver Lance right when she joins, making his one advantage obsolete. Palla has better stats than Arran despite being unpromoted and joins as early as chapter 3. This is not to say he is bad, but FE3 Arran shouldn't be in A tier.
Fe3 Arryn has chapter 1 and 2 utility going for him, the former where can help weaken enemy bandits before your cavs, who seem to have trouble doubling if their name isn't Cecil, can KO them. Also, getting the Lady Sword in Chapter 2 is only remotely possible because of Arryn.
Hid bases, while good, also seem a bit low for a Jaigen, I vaguely remember his highest stat being 10 speed, not including weapon level, and his growths are non existent, so he cant be used later on too well (if starsphere shards are brought up, then you can argue for literally any character in the roster, and FE3 has a lot). I think B or C is fair for him tbh.
Cavaliers in FE3 tend to suck anyway because the terrain is pretty hostile towards them. At least Arran is useful for Chapters 1-3 since he is one of the only units that can reasonably take on the Wyvern Riders in Chapters 2 and 3. He is even pretty decent in Chapter 5 for the Secret Shop.
Mekkah pls do a lord tier list I’ve been wanting to hear your opinion for ages
Who are the characters in Three houses that could take the new top characters spots that mekkkah keeps referencing?
Great video man. If you're looking for more archetype tierlist ideas, maybe an est tier list lol
There should be a 'Knoll' archetype for characters who are/can get ridiculously screwed at their primary role but are useful because of a secondary function. Examples would include Salem, Canas, Leif, Knoll, Anakin, and Cecilia. EDIT: Also, surprisingly, Gunter.
Anakin?
Also, for members of this archetype: Fae. Her divinestone being so non-durable means she can't kill too much, but she's _amazing_ at tanking mages and drawing ranged staves.
@@red5t653 Anakin is one of the Lords in The Last Promise, he can use Light Magic, but why would he when he can just Dance instead.
@@zander3312 Because if his shaky Magic Growth actually turns out, Anakin can make an incredibly good tank with his native regeneration and 1-2 range. But even if he got literally zero growths he'd still be a dancer that regens and has decent bulk.
Where would you rank FE6's Zelots if you were to include him on this list? Since he's basically like a back-up Marcus.
I hate that you gave me so much hope putting Jeralt in the list, I'm far into my first path in 3 houses and was thinking about how someone would go about maddening difficulty. I also wanted him to live :'(
Gunter can be deceptively useful in Conquest, Lunatic even. When you recruit him, right off the bat he can put that B rank Axes and high skill and decent def stats to chip enemy ninjas very reliably. Be it steel axes or hand axes or whatever, it's useful to have him around for the imminent ninja hell that happens right after his recruitment.
I sort of wish they made his base level something like 14 so with a single level up he'd get Armored Blow for that +10 def on player phase, he'd be useful even beyond that lol.
But even then, when he starts falling off, he isn't just a good stat backpack, he's one of THE best stat backpacks for Corrin, with his base class granting Strength, Defense AND Movement, on top of his personal skill further granting Might and Hit Rate. _THEN_ if Corrin is a Nohr Noble they'll get Nohrian Thrust at Level 15, which means they can proc Gunter's Luna. But maybe one of the best parts is that this requires zero investment. Just stick that old geezer to Corrin's ass and watch them go.
So yeah, if you don't have any specific S rank you want to stick to Corrin on Conquest, Gunter is a very good and very fun choice. The extra movement, strength and defense, on top of Luna, basically make Corrin a GK themselves, minus the penalties.
Would you say Quan is a jeigan? He's prepromoted and he leaves in chapter 4 which makes the game a bit more difficult especially if you benched Midir and the Christmas cavs.
The next sorta obvious ones would be like "Lords/Avatars" and then an "Est/Trainee" tier list. I'd like the Est tier list just to see you talking about growth units.
Would Quan be qualified for the fe4 1st gen Jeigan? He joins as a pre promote in the first chapter with pretty good stats
A Minerva archetype tier list would be cool to see.
Yeah, but I feel like you could do a Christmas cavalier thing there, and do the younger and older wyvern bros.
Honestly Hard Mode Conquest Gunter is so good and it's weird because that specific mode and route combination gives him a good enough stat buff when he rejoins to stay viable as a halfway decent tank unit, though he is slow. His personal skill is also great for your Corrin since he can buff them up and the chapter where he joins is the best demonstration of it. If nothing else he helps make Corrin damned good and if you're just doing Conquest Hard he can be nice to have especially if one or two of your other units weren't doing as well. He's not great in Revelation or in any of the Lunatic modes but for Hard Conquest he really stands out in that route specifically as subverting what you came to expect of him from his mediocre performance in the first handful of prologue chapter pre-route choice. He's not godly but he honestly has a niche in one specific are that makes him alright to use
Your indecision regarding Frederick is pretty much a great summary of his role in the game. In Hard mode he's handy but drops off during the midgame where he's run his course and Awakening has done its thing and made everyone else catch up to him or even overtake him. In Lunatic you can't do anything without him and even when you reach mid and late game you are still arguably using him because his sheer reliability gives him staying power and once you know how spotpass teams work you can get spears and tomahawks for him really easily. While Robin outshines him entirely that's sort of a necessity to survive in Lunatic otherwise you will not be getting far. Frederick is perfectly stuck between being S tier for being necessary on Awakening's at its' hardest starting out but A tier because Awakening on its much more forgiving regular Hard mode for more relaxed play he kind of drops off compared to everyone else and isn't able to go full Seth. I still keep him around sometimes personally because Great Knight is an underrated class in Awakening, having full triangle control when you can buy whatever regular weapons you want off of spotpass and starting with high lance rank and an ability that makes weapon rank leveling faster for him that he starts with means he can flexibly handle most melee situations and won't really break like some other units. Honestly I like Jagens alot too and I'm baffled as to why they didn't give you Jeralt as one for Three Houses. Honestly since Byleth is talked up as having combat experience I almost wish they were the prepromote and started in the mercenary class since they are in fact a mercenary by profession.
Was fun seeing you on Shane's premiere. Can you do a tier list of early Pegasus Knights?
Yesss Seth highest tier is my guess! And what about a Lord tier list?
Who is the best unit now? Lysithea? Or am I missing something?
Could you do the main lords tier list ?
I'm only part way through it, is The Last Promise's story really that bad?
I'm not completely sure about this, but I think Jeritza from Three Houses could be considered a Jagen in some aspects: he starts as a slightly stronger unit at the beginning of the post timeskip, his exclusive class is better than some of the master ones, making him something like a prepromote, and the Sariel Scythe is like the stronger weapons that other Jagens had.
My Frederick always turns out with great speed for some reason and I usually pair him up with Sumia because she doesn't have a lot of supports and frederick is the best option because chrom and sumia don't work good and robin has much better supports so they usually end up where frederick gives her good strength and defense while frederick gets a lot of speed and some skill. It's worked really well in my past 3 playthroughs
It's hilarious that after I watch this video I found out you be the jagen of blinding bald
Sothe is 15 and hes in the "Im Old" slot lmao
He is 17 in radiant dawn
Kent, knight of Caelin wait really?? I was told he was 12 in PoR
I never get far in Awakening's Lunatic, despite it being my favorite FE game, and I tend to try to use everyone, so I haven't used Fred enough to be helpful on him.
Also, I vote for Est tier list next. It would be fun seeing them compared to this tier list as well.
in your opinion, would lukas be the jagen of gaiden/echoes
Obviously not, otherwise he would have been on the tier list.
Freddy is basically the only thing that makes awakenings lunatic difficulty doable. early game his job is to protect the team by tanking hits and then in the midgame he switches to being a pair up unit for stat boost and dual guards.
Gunter is trash. his growth are just terrible and his stats are low for his class. when he joined in conquest my silas was around 5 points above him in each stat. In revelations he's ok as he's one of the few units that can actually do damage or take a hit early game. most of early revelations is using kaze/jacob to debuf enemies and then positioning gunter so that weak units like hana can use his follow up attack to get kills.
which is the music at the start of the video?
It's the FE11 Prologue music
Main lord is next, right?
A Jeigan is less useful the more you want to use a bad unit. "God dammit, I'm bringing Rebecca to end game if it kills me" is where the myth of Jeigans being bad comes from
That's definitely a factor, but I think the common misconception "they'll fall off" and "exp thief" is more often the main cause.
I actually wonder where the myth of rebecca being good come from tho. her growths are not really impressive aside from speed, bows are shit in fe7, enemies are positioned in a way with AI that only attacks stuff in range that she is even fucked in jp(where effectiveness is stronger) against flying enemies and her bases are kinda crap too. everything is terrible about her
@@korinoriz It's the motivation behind the "exp thief" argument. Like, the most efficient way to play FE7 is basically to just pick up every overpowered prepromote and simply drop them when they fall off - Marcus can't steal xp if none of the units you're using particularly care about being fed xp. On the other hand, bad units require babysitting to be useful, which happens to be most of your non-Jeigans in the first several chapters of most games. For a lot of new/middling experience level players, giving all of that experience to Marcus means that the rest of your army is going to suck. It just doesn't occur to them that that isn't a bad thing because you were going to bench these characters anyways... assuming you're trying to be efficient, and frankly if you insist on using Seth in FE8 I don't respect you as a person.
@@lpfan4491 Normal mode.
Normal mode is where legends of dodgetanks and awful units facerolling the game come from. A legendary land where even the standard fighter bros can see 50% evasion rates.
I had to play through FE7 normal mode on a rom to get hard mode recently. Decided I'd use Karla, so used Bartre.
Bartre was nigh unstoppable. If Bartre can dominate a normal run, Rebecca being a run hero isn't that outlandish either.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 the joke is, normal mode literally gives units more HP if they are overleveled compared to the enemy. so just because rebecca is more usable in normal mode, she is still a bad unit compared to others. because people like oswin and marcus who have an statistical edge(and in oswins case the advantage of being fairly high level unpromoted), the game just snowballs out of control and she is still one of the weker units. in fact, wil completely overshadows her by default if we want to talk about comparable peers because he can start out on a higher level.
cool vid and mad respect for Eyvel.
Sothe is an interesting Jagen because he absolutely carries the dawn brigade but then falls off hard. In a way I think he's one of the best designed Jagen because he exemplifies the power disparity in the two teams, but by the time he joins the Ike squad, his power feels normalized and meh compared to the rest.
It really shows how much raw experience and genuine power the Ike team has in comparison to the dawn brigade. It's awesome.
Dont have a switch so never played 3 houses
What is the best unit ever above sigurd?
Robin
Why are there multiple tiers if you just stuck most of them into 2?