Mr. Thompson and the Vicar Invent Children's Church
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- Опубликовано: 24 июн 2015
- Fussy little children in the sanctuary are causing quite the consternation at the local parish. Fortunately, Mr. Thompson and the Vicar have an ingenious solution to the problem.
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"...the horrific sound of children learning to be Christians"
I’m so glad the church I grew up in had Sunday School BEFORE Divine service so I could go to both!
As my pastor says “a quiet church is a dying church”.
We want to hear little voices!
Yes! As a kid, I loved having both.
Hey!!! Just wanted to let you guys know that I shared this video with someone at my church, who ended up sharing it with others at church and it reached my youth pastor--a lot of changes have been made to youth ministry because your satire for them to think--what you!
"Make a macaroni cross and we all will be redeemed!"
"If the parish ain't cryin', it's dying!"
This is so accurate. I'm an Anglican Sunday school teacher and I see this every week. They don't want to learn but just arts and crafts. They forget lessons easily and can't sit still in the few times when they have to go to church. I have nothing against something like Sunday School but it shouldn't be at the same time as the service
Nogals at our church in ss the children are on a rotation by age group. The art week ties directly to what they are learning that month. It is more than just a craft.
Ouch, that struck home. I admit I hate having children around, but you're right, kicking them out is the exact opposite of what Jesus commanded.
James Walker They aren’t being kicked out in children’s church. They are being raised up and taught the scriptures in ways that actually connect with them.
Luke Ricker It’s obviously worked quite well....
Jesse Campbell When people who “hate having children around” are the ones who decide what to do it doesn’t.
@@lukericker8325 Nonsense. Jesus never sent the children away because they couldn't understand his sermons, so we've clearly failed to follow him in this clearly antiChrist regard, which is sin, no matter how we try to dress it up and excuse it, which is also sin. Also in days gone by when we still had a civilization, unlike today, it was a given for adults to discipline their children properly whereas today undisciplined, ungodly children never disciplined in the fear and admonition of the Lord rule the roost and get so-called "adults," many of whom were sadly themselves never disciplined in the fear and admonition of the Lord, to do their bidding, children who never grew up raising children to never grow up as our illiterate, bigoted civilization fails from abandoning the very Word of God that gave it rise. Christ's church was once the beacon light of the world, now it often prefers to follow the darkness, far more common in the pagan West than the East often far more godly, e.g. Anglicanism. See Children Desiring God for the godly way to teach children to worship, unlike corrupt "children's church" apostasy excused by the ungodly and their fools to lead children away from Jesus, pleasing satan.
Russ Davis They aren’t sent away. They get sermons too.
Profoundly stupid idea indeed! One of my fondest memories of my old parish was children getting loose and going past the altar rail. My first thought was "what a beautiful healthy thing!" The only way theyll learn to worship like adults is being around adults who worship.
My faithful wife takes out children to Mass every day. They are 3.5 and 1.3 years old, and behave better than a lot of children much older than them. Our oldest already pointa out who is who in depictions of about half of Gospel scenes without prompting, and can tell you at least half of the events of probably half the stories of the Gospel. At his age, I was making macaroni crosses and feeling rejected by my parents every Sunday morning and didn't know there was Mass on any other day of the week.
Dismissing children = dismissing doctrine 🤯😭👏🏻👏🏻 👍🏻👍🏻❤️
When I occasionally got to go to church, the adults went to Sunday school when the kids did. The kids attended the church service, too. Fidgeting a little, and maybe asking for chewing gum, was the extent of the disruption we caused.
I've worked in Children's Church and Sunday School for years. I was baffled when a mom once actually said "if there is now where for my kids to go so that I can have a break, then I'm not coming to church." I respect when parents have their children stay with them in service and then I do my best to teach the kids whose parents "need a break."
The church where I grew up only had Sunday School, followed by regular worship service, attended by everyone. The concept of Children's Church wasn't even a thing, until we began attending a sister church some years later. I found it slightly odd, but accepted it at the time.
I always knew there was something wrong with Children's church. I just couldn't place it.
I am so glad that I attend a church that knows the difference between Sunday School Children's Church and Full Services. I have had a well-rounded mix of all of them and they have encouraged me in my walk with Christ. We have adult Sunday School classes that encourage Discipleship and additional learning during the Children's Sunday School Hour.
Hey it's a random viewer, just wanted to thank you for making this videos and share a story: I go to a Christian school and am taking apologetics. We watch a few of your videos. So the story goes that a student was doing an essay on Arianism when our religion teacher walked in. When the essay was over our English teacher asked him what he thought. His response was, "Oh Patrick." Keep up the good work :)
😅😅😅
😆🤣😆🤣😆 That's epic!!
In our church, kids go to Sunday school and the regular service. They're at different times.
Is that a giraffe standing on the roof of the church?
Yes
WHY?!
I never noticed that
He wandered off during the Christmas pageant and no one's been able to catch him.
as a new believer at my first church (read: former church), they insisted my 7 year old son go to the children's bit, and after a few weeks of that he insisted to be in the main event with dad and never wanted to go back. so proud he figured that nonsense out before I did.
Very funny video. Though it’s tough to laugh when it’s so tragic to see children removed from the services even in my own church.
God bless brother.
Children belong in the worship service. Keep the families together. The kids may squirm and holler at times, but that is fine. They eventually are taught to control themselves even though it is not perfectly. It is also a good for the adults and older siblings to help teach them how to follow along in the hymnal, learn the responses, creeds, and to see what is going on at the altar. We try to encourage the small ones to be near the front because they LOVE to see what is going on instead of staring at a wall of backs.
As to Sunday schools, we only separate them from the adults until after catechism and confirmation. After that, they join the "adult" Sunday school sessions. After all, they are communing members of the church. After spending a couple of years as acolytes during their catechism period and confirmation, they are then encouraged to participate in other ways. The boys may help the elders with the offering. The older kids may teach the younger acolytes how to properly do their duties. They help out the Altar Guild.
These are effective ways of letting them know that they are truly part of the church in practice as well as in God's name.
I...
I've got some thinking to do...
You brought them back! Praise the Lord!
Glad to see this pair again; thanks, Hans!
Magnificent tongue-in-cheek comedy. YAY!
Best one I've seen for quite a while, thank you!
This might be your best video yet. Great work on a very important topic.
There may very well be a case that could made against children's church that would convince me to change my mind and be against it, but it wasn't made in this video. If this is the strongest argument against children's church I guess I'll go on supporting it. Funny video though!
Glad to see a new one, I enjoy each and every one.
I like Sunday school aka first hour lessons for us adults. more than church because we discuss and read the Bible. It gets us set to be preached to.
Lol. There are good/bad children's churches. When I was old enough like 3 or 4 to go to "big" I slept or colored my paper from Sunday school. I was allowed to play with 1 collection envelope too. I probably didn't really start paying attention & listening till I was 10 or so.
Exactly.
Me too. There were times I'd pick up on stuff and ask my dad, an elder or our preacher things later. I'm glad we had that sort of environment. I think it's how it ought always to be.
sunday school, if done properly, is beneficial. i went to sunday school until probably about 10, at which point i started staying in the actual service. and sunday school was decent at my church, we covered properly important topics and bible readings and talked about it and went through it properly. i remember one time this one kid who used to come with his mum to church like once every 2 months (when his mum came) asked "who created god?" and the sunday school teacher gave a decent in-depth answer. and the person doing sunday school also changed each week, going on a rota so that people had a chance to go to the regular service. this was useful, because it allowed me to develop in my faith as my mind and maturity developed, without being thrown straight into the deep end with a regular church sermon which a child will be unable to understand, and will most likely talk or sleep through. but i can see how, if sunday school is done badly, it can be negative rather than positive. i remember when i was about 12-14 i started going to a different baptist church, largely because it had more modern songs (compared to the old hymns of my childhood anglican church), but we were always sent straight to sunday school (despite having been staying in the service at my old church for quite a while) without choice, and it was done so bad that i ended up just alternating between my old church with the decent theological teaching and this other church with the modern songs, until i just moved back to going to my childhood anglican church full time.
It really depends on how you teach and do sunday school. For example, at my childhood church (an anglican church) you would start in the church until the around about the sermon. Then you would go out for Sunday school at which point you'd learn and after that you'd go back into the service for the rest of it. Ans then as you get older (it's dependant on the child some start staying in the service earlier, others later; i personally started staying in at about the age of 11) you start to stay in the service. We were still able to sing the hymns and go up to communion (at which point you'd just get a blessing, which i never really understood) and pray and all of that stuff, it's just that the teaching part of it (for which most, maybe 95%, of the time was teaching) is more fitted for children. The stuff taught in the sermon in the main church would go completely over the heads of children because they do not have the basic understanding of certain key theological things. It depends on how Sunday school is done. Sunday school if done badly can be a bad thing. For example, around about the age of 13 i started going to another church nearby aswell as my childhood church that my older brothers went to. I liked this church (largely because they had modern songs) and started going there alot. But one problem had been that whenever i was there i always went to Sunday school, even till the age of 17, and the Sunday school was simply not helpful for me. Quite often it was this one guy who had a bit of a habit to ramble on, often to the point that he would talk about the choices of some of the church and how he disagreed with them. This was not helpful at all, and from the age of 15 i started going to my parents church again because at least i was able to gain from it spiritually. It mightn't have had the modern songs, but i was able to stay in for the sermon and actually develop my faith. I dunno what the sunday school for younger children at that other church was like and for all i know it could've been great. But the Sunday school for teenagers certainly wasn't. And what i had never understood was that the other church always had so many more children than my childhood church, even to the point that my childhood church often never had anyone going out for sunday school because there weren't any kids.
Look my point is that sunday school can still be a positive thing if done well. But it's got to be done well, similar to that of my childhood church
Best is have age-segregated Sunday School for those below 12 or Grade 6 and Bible Study for adults and teenagers in Junior High+. The key thing is that after this the proper sunday service for all. That is how I became a Minister and my sisters are still faithful.
@@hesedagape6122 i was in the normal service by 11, but in my church we generally base it on person to person. infact, when i was 14, i started going to a different church, because i liked the church and my youth club was there, but eventually went back to my childhood church because i didn't like be whisked away to some less than amazing bible college/Sunday school thing on the side (even tho that was segregated from 12 up)
Just an interesting discovery. My Lutheran friend and I watched this video together and discussed it. It turns out that we had a pretty key confusion of terms. His idea of Children's Church and the idea addressed in this video seems to be a function for children of more advanced age, possibly up to high school. My idea of Children's Church and what I have experienced growing up in various non-denomination, Baptist, and Christian Denomination churches is that Children's Church is only for those children who are around the ages of two- five, those beyond nursing but not yet school age. I think the reasoning behind this is if the children are old enough to pay attention in school, they are plenty old enough to sit through, and receive some benefit from a sermon. My Lutheran friend said that what I was describing his church just called "Nursery", and that he was totally fine with it.
Some Baptist churches I've attended have children's church through about 5th grade. Ugh.
Where I'm from Nursery is for very small children. I've seen Children's Church all the way up to high school and I've seen it destroy families.
First, lets distinguish children's church from the nursery, there are some children much too young to listen in on a sermon or study.
Secondly, in addition to a good foundational Sunday school before the church service, and getting rid of the label or assumption of "half-trained layman", children's church can be a fulfilling part of a young Christian's growth.
Thirdly, I have heard pastors say "There's no children's church today, I'd like the children to stay because this message is for everybody". (I was kept from some controversial subjects when I was young, but now I know to "chew the meat and spit out the bones".
That being said, I do remember sitting in, playing in the corner, while adults spoke about things I didn't entirely understand, but which became fortifying truths to guide me later.
Peter England the lady who teaches our children’s church is highly trained and has a degree in Bible.
Holding a 'children's church' demonstrates a failure to trust in the Holy Spirit.
Found the Sunday School teacher
It’s funny, Sunday school is always before church at the baptist place I went to as a kid. Thing is adults had there own Sunday school too, a little bible class divided by age. However whenever one thought of Sunday schools one associated them with kids. I completely agree that children in cases like churches should be in the same place as adults, it’s the same in my baptist church. I’m not even Christian and I agree we should do things involving kids instead of distracting them with poor substitutes.
I think a large part of this is trying to make up for poorly catechised parents by implementing a 'program' for children. What we need is Sunday School for parents, I really like the idea of what some people have suggested here that before the service _everyone_ has a time to read through and discuss the readings for that Sunday (of course its perfectly possible to do the readings on your own but the discussion would be valuable) before Mass actually starts. I generally try to do something like that for my son (wherever possible I find a kids bible version of at least one of the readings) but Sunday mornings can be rushed and we don't always get time. If you can get the adults to actually think about their faith and discuss it with other people you'd hope they would be better at infusing faith into their life the other 6 days a week.
Oh that’s so sad! I adored running children’s church services. I took it quite seriously and saw it as a church service tailored to the developmental needs and abilities. I saw the work of the Holy Spirit just as powerfully if not more, through the little ones than when with the adults. All craft activities were with purpose and useful in helping the children tell their parents. in their own words, what they discovered from the Bible during church time.
You had me at "Constable Fishbottom"
Personally, I know that if I did not go to Sunday school as a kid I would have thought that Christianity was boring and not cared at all about the faith. A lot of that came from the way the pastor taught but it was something that helped me learn to love the church and made me a stronger Christian as a result. However, after watching this video I am under the impression that a nondenominational Sunday school and a Lutheran children's church are two different things entirely.
Lol as a person from the Tribe of Nazarene (yes one of those protestant groups) I laughed so hard my eyes cried. Brillant good sirs brillant and oh so true. And for that half trained layperson that was the Fault of the church Leaders not them.
Great video! I've missed you!
This is great. You're a genius.
I cannot stop laughing!!! Actually, Dr. Lee Robertson had the largest church in America, refused to have children's church for all these exact reasons!!
I went to Sunday School much of my childhood and turned out just fine. My Sunday School was run by the pastor’s wife, and she emphasized Bible verse memorization. Her teaching and lessons were geared toward us, and she taught the gospel too. And sometimes we would be invited to stay in adult church. We would participate in communion, as well as worship and hymn singing. Trust me though, at least in our church, the adult services were no place for kids under 10. The messages were geared towards the older crowd, speaking to things related to them using words and concepts that children many times can’t understand. Children need their own special lessons, if you ask me. My
sunday school experience wasn’t perfect, but I don’t regret it either. It got a lot
Of things right.
Ok, just don’t come crying to me when toddlers come crying to you.
Absolutely awesome!!!
How ghastly I had to sit on hard pews and recite the same 1928 book of common prayer as a kid with my parents in the 1960's-1970's. Children's church is one problem I have with my current church.
I attended a Baptist Church for a while. At the Baptist Church, they had worship service for adults and, at the same time, a separate place for kids to stay. Become Catholic. :DDD
i agree with the points you make overall, but the 1 major concern i have is with children not understanding the poetic, advanced grammar of the scriptures, we don't want to dumb it down so the children can understand whilst ruining the experience for the adults
I believe that, as a sardius is a gem, so the sardisean age was both elegant, as well as rigid on the doctrine. A virtue to come out of this church was the standard of the gentleman, which Mr Thompson and the vicar so pleasantly set.
If I had to put a founder of a church age (along with a denomination)...
Ephesus - The Apostle Peter (Apostolic)
Smyrna - A scattered church - The Apostle Paul would be the closest (Martyr)
Pergamos - Constantine (Orthodox)
Thyatira - Charlemange (Catholic)
Sardis - Martin Luther (Protestant)
Philadelphia -John Wesley (Methodist)
Laodicea - DL Moody - As he was the first to buy a mansion with his missionary proceeds. (Charismatic / Word of Faith)... Mr Thompson and the Vicar would be dumbfounded!
Family-Integrated church FTW!
That's not quite the way it works at my church. The kids service has more or less the same components as the one in the main sanctuary, but with "milk" instead of "meat." There's about ten minutes at the end where they get to do crafts and stuff, but they also spend the first ten minutes upstairs singing with the grownups, so it kind of balances out. AND we cancel children's church periodically, either because the volunteers leading it are unavailable, or because an important milestone (such as Christmas or Easter) rolls around.
Not saying that my church's method is the ideal method (the "children never get to see their parents worship" point is one worth chewing on), just that - in my experience, as someone who was raised evangelical and who volunteers at children's church - evangelicals tend to view the practice less as a way of getting noisy kids out of the sanctuary than as a method of giving milk and meat to the appropriate audiences.
"...from those whose youth has rendered then incapable of worshipping our Lord as He commanded: like proper Englishmen!"
All too true, good clip, thanks!
Well done, well done!
well, we went to lutheran church a little when I was young, but the church had no children's church. I think its different for every child, but without the children's church I had no idea that Christ had died for our sins. When I got older, around 14, I finally understood, but I think thats a little late. However, I love the Lutheran Sattire videos!! great job!! :-)
Don't worry around 14 is when we all understood. I attended both because they were not at the same time. It helps to teach age appropriate stuff and then adult stuff. I grew into it very well.
Probably the best Lutheran Satire video!
And this is why one of a children's pastors most important jobs is teaching parents how to teach their kids about God.
Another good video! This also applies to the less fortunate who visit our church - even when sometimes they are obnoxious.
I do wonder who actually invented "Sunday School". It does not sound like something High Christians invented. It sounds rather like the Baptists, Presbyterians, or others who don't believe Jesus is Really Present in the Sacraments.
Anglicans. It was originally created during the industrial revolution to teach reading, writing, and arithmetic to kids who couldn't go to school during the week due to having to work.
Nolan McBride It's true. It was actually the Baptists who stood on the roof tops against it. Now they rule it.
ChesterKhan Presbyterians do not that reject the real presence of Christ in the sacraments, they reject philosophical realism errors that were incorporated into the Roman Mass and the corresponding tyrannical powers that it conferred to the Roman clergy. My church considers Sunday School an abomination and requires all baptized children to be present at worship as a term of communion.
hellsunicorn
Well, good for you. For the record, the only church I have ever seen that has a Sunday school is the Anglican Use Catholic church - as well as the signs in front of a lot of Baptist and low Protestant congregations, but I don't typically arse myself with their congregations. No Catholic church, except the one aforementioned, that I know of has a "Sunday school".
And Aristotelian realism is implicit not only in common sense but also in our faith. What greater sacrament is there than the Incarnation? What greater universal is there than Being?
hellsunicorn At least in every church I've attended or visited, Sunday School is not at the same time as the Sunday Service. Usually it is after the service, but some have it before. Some have had Children's Church during the service, but as the congregation I grew up in did not I don't have much experience with it. I know the one I attend now does, but it is only for kids who haven't started elementary school yet and it is during the sermon, so the kids are there for most of the service. Of course, I'm Anabaptist, so we never have communion as part of our Sunday Service.
I say! Extra brilliant! Age segregation in church comes directly from Darwinian evolutionary ideas foisted on us by an atheistic school system that doesn't want "Neandrathal corrupting Homo Sapien". Ironically, this very day I myself taught Children's Church. However, there was no craft time, no play time and no snack time. Instead I buried them in the implications of Luke 18 regarding the "rich young ruler" and how it pertains to false conversion and what the true gospel actually requires. Happily the parents were all for it. That's step one. Next will be forwarding the idea to my elders that we must end this worldly practice, thus putting myself out of an illegitimate job.Lol. I love teaching them but not at the expense of Biblical patterns. In the mean time I'll lay on the gospel and hopefully shame some parents into actually catacizing their OWN CHILDREN. Any prayers for wisdom in this pursuit would be appreciated. What a great opportunity to separate from the world!
How about this?
One church group I was part of had Sunday schools FIRST (one for kids and one for adults). Then we ALL went in for the big service. Plus...let's discipline our kids! Let's teach them how to behave properly during church services.
Good points to consider. The truth is that Christianity is not an easy religion to grasp in its fullness...especially for the young. However, there are certain fundamentals that can help a young person begin to understand. Those fundamentals are best communicated and taught in an environment designed for that instruction. Maybe this is Sunday School or Catechism, but it is certainly essential and not the Sunday sermon or homily. Bottom line, our worship services need to be more welcoming and accommodating for EVERYONE...especially you g families.
This makes me wonder if Pastor Fiene's church has Children's Church 😜
This is great!
There are less separative solutions for this "problem" that work quite well in some congregations IF it is architectonic possible: A separate room (ideally integrated in the main room separated by sound sealed glass) with sound transmission from the main room, but with some toys inside, into which parents can go when their children go so loud it disturbs the service until they quieted down a bit again.
Delightful! On Point!
You really are too funny, I can see where Garrison Keiller gets his humor.
Hadn't thought about it that way before. On a different note, what denomination/sect is this vicar from, and what time period is this supposed to be set in? God bless.
"...Kicking annoying doctrine out of the church when ever we find them uncomfortable" Cough book of James cough
As someone who has spent the last 30 years teaching children, I just don't even know where to begin with this... Really. But thank you for your endearing trivialization of the ministry of so many people.
BMBirdsong chill it's a satire not complete in critique or fairness but just for ponderance
I wonder how many of those children you taught are still in the faith today? I don't mean to be rude, just a thought.
Loved it.
Hey! In england we call it Sunday school
I'm not sure Children's church is completely a bad idea. Mainly since some forms of church can be a little over younger kid's heads. Having a class that teaches the Bible to kids in a way they can understand can work.
Huh a Thomas reference didn't expected that
This is so true.
Bravo!
OK, I know I am three years late, but Children's Church is as good as the people who provide it. Growing up as a PK in the US, I saw a number of excellent Children's church programs which included age appropriate, memorable bible story music, scripture reading and memorization (which you NEVER see in regular church), as well as craft time that reinforces the message of the hour and gives them something to take home to REMEMBER what they learned. There are NO children asleep in Children's church...can you say the same for the formal service? We have made our typical low church services too informal, performance-heavy, and kitschy. Our high church services are fully costumed Monty Python-worthy liturgy sing and speak-alongs that give people the idea they have been doused and dosed for another week of living like the world. Children's Church is in fact closer to the way Jesus ran a service during his ministry.
So children's church is catechism class before the service starts. So no issue over here thanks.
Would that similar logic be applied to the Lord's Supper....
No, because Paul directly warns about the consequences of taking the Lord Supper as an unbeliever or in any other unworthy manner (some people actually died).
Yes.
Give them wine.
@@a-s-greig Just like the apostles did.
Well, when you put it that way...
I do not like letting kids out for service. My church does it...and as the Christian Ed Director you'd think I could change it but *sigh*. Something about letting sleeping dragons lie...
You can have Sunday School before or after service not during. It is more effective combined with regular church than as a separate thing
So sadly accurate 🤦🏼♀️😂
Funny. But children’s church can be useful. When I was a kid, our church only had children’s church Sunday mornings. On Sunday evenings and Wednesdays kids went to the regular service with the adults. One reason this was good was that on Sunday mornings, the church vans would pick up people who wanted to come to church but had no ride. This was almost entirely kids who wanted to go to church whose parents didn’t go. 3 van loads of kids with their parents would cause endless disruptions in a church service. And before anyone says school teachers deal with that everyday, it’s works for teachers to call out, discipline, and send unruly kids to the principle during a lecture. That doesn’t work during a church service. There’s no principle to send a kid to who’s throwing paper airplanes during communion, and there’s only so many times someone can interrupt a sermon, or make fart sounds during a hymn. And church folk have to be especially sensitive to kids from unchurched families.
I know children’s church can be done poorly, but it can also be done well. Ours was basically the same format as the adult service. We sang simpler songs and hymns, read bible passages aloud responsively, and one of the teachers would give a lesson with some sort of application for young lives. (Yes, sometimes we enjoyed the wonders of the flannel board...this was the 90s.) The only part significantly different from the adult church is that we had Bible verses we were given to memorize every week, which we would have to recite individually at the end of the service.
I think I was about 8 when I started attending adult morning service. A lot of those kids from unchurched families stopped going to church altogether when became teenagers, so those few years in children’s church was the only church they really got.
Also, parents really do need to teach their kids to be reverent during a service. I’ve worked at serveral churches since going to college and after, and you’d think nothing would embarrass some of those parents they way they let their kids carry on. If a kid is old enough to talk (s)he is old enough to know when to be quiet. A good thump on the head or a trip out to the narthex needs to happen more often.
Did they say macaroni purse? I couldn't understand that last word.
2:57 for the win.
Sunday School (as we call it) has indeed created many atheists and agnostics, as it's the watered down, simplified version of theology that they're denying.
Yes, we ought to worship God like proper Englishmen.
I'm not sure the church ever kept in hordes of screaming infants, babes in arms, when nobody could hear anything else.
Difference between Sunday School and Nursery.
Vivian Jambutter.....XD...lost it.
"Good giblet gravy" got me. 😂
Hi!
Right ... His church's average attendance is 84. His denomination's membership has declined by half a million people in the last 50 years. During the same period, child baptisms have declined 70 percent. Adult converts have declined by 47 percent. Ministry methodology is extremely important. It matters. A huge reason why Northern Africa became Muslim was because the Roman Catholic Church continued using Latin at church and the populace no longer understood the Faith. There is a reason why Luther translated the Bible into German. The reason church's use Children's Church and Vacation Bible School is because it educates kids in the Faith. There is a reason why the LCMS is declining.
FIRST OF ALL, we need to learn from the examples given in scripture:
Deut 31:12-13
Ezra 10:1
Matt 18:1-5; 19:13-15
Eph 6:1-4
Col 3:20
SECONDLY, who are you to determine the age of ability of any child when it comes hearing and believing the Gospel? Is the Gospel not the power of God unto Salvation? Is faith itself not a gift? This type of pragmatic reasoning is not consistent with sound Biblical theology.
THIRDLY, what is the point of corporate worship? Is it primarily for you or it is to the glory of God? Either way, Ephesians 4:16 says "from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love." Are children excluded? Can you not be blessed, encouraged and even convicted through the example and testimony of little children?
AND FINALLY, I'm sure no one on here agrees with the seeker friendly movement in America. (Take the sting out of the Gospel, give the unregenerate what they already want in order to lure them in and hope you, in your own power can make them believe...) My wife and I were saved from the seeker-friendly movement, why would I want to turn my kids over to that mindset and further confuse them through pragmatic means and other vain, manipulative methodologies?
The men need to step up as family shepherds. This comes from the leadership of one's church. Invest in the fathers and mothers so they can properly disciple their children throughout the week. Then during the one (or two) times they get to come together as a body and worship corporately, have them sit next to you and learn by example. Discipling our children properly throughout the week, and then giving them a chance to see us worshiping God out of delight rather than duty goes way farther in reaching and shaping that child than any "children's church" ever could.
Perfectly said
Luther is the upkit. Say no Sanjaway. To the life and to the love. I wont save Yah as love, Ill just save you. So be it. Chris says we leave. Jump today. I love you Dina and Sayga, I will save you from Ga. Return to your God.
If you enjoy church, you're not doing it right. Suffer with the children I say.
I don't agree with this. I think that the separate service benefits children just as much as it benefits the adults. If they're bored and being quieted constantly, they're really not going to like being there. They will start to for a dislike of church and may even reject the teachings, as a result.
When I was a kid, we would sit with the adults for a while, go and have some fun while learning scripture, etc. They would give us snacks and there was a reward system (I can't remember the basis now). Afterwards, we would head back in and join the main church for worship music, followed by drinks and socialising.
We all liked being there. I've never been to such a well functioning church since.
Have you heard of youth choir and altar boys?
I think that children's church can be done correctly if you make it a requirement that those teach have to have been to seminary.
In an ideal circumstance, that would be the case but how many churches could actually fund that?
Lily Dalbkce yes I think parents just need to raise their kids rightly. Relying on kids church when other kids are not being loud is detrimental for the good kids
gunstar168 nothing is fool proof, that is why you don't let just anyone teach. and I don't mean just seminary as really it's not as needed as many believe. I am a youth Leader, I help to relate but children's church can help them to be introduced to truths of the Bible in a way that they can actually understand.
gunstar168 you might have seen division but my church has handled it all well. children at very young ages don't and can't understand the sermon. children's church is also only available until about the fourth or fifth grade. the age groups don't mix even when they are in church because they don't sit with each other. but the high school and middle school help with awana groups that the much younger kids are involved in
We excuse the kids age 3 to 8 to children’s church only during the sermon
A couple years ago we had a lot of babies in the service because they were too young for the nursery
But now it’s quiet again
It’s a stretch to say that removing annoying children from the service then leads to annoying doctrine being removed
Annoying children??? Wow, glad I don't go to your church! Imagine a child needing to hear the word of God preached to him~ unless of course you don't believe the Holy Spirit can work in the hearts of 3-8 year olds who are little sinners who need forgiveness as well.
Well this is hilarious I'll simply say when I was a youth pastor my teenagers 13 to 20 learned more doctrine and theology and more about the true heart of our faith then their parents did in fact the parents started coming to the teen ministry ..... Presentation may change but the word does not need to be sacrificed it can be delivered raw and In living color..
Once again, painting with a broad brush my dear Watson!
"What ho", hey?