ISB vs Imperial Intelligence What's the Difference?
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
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We take a look at the difference between the Galactic Empire's two main intelligence agencies, the ISB and the Imperial Military Intelligence.
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And now you're channel has been put under investigation by Xi's CCP.
So this is unrelated to the video but I had a wild Idea for a what if scenario and would love to see generation tech's take on it. What if the Rebel Alliance captured the first Death Star Instead of destroying it.
7:12 So you're saying China doesn't see the US, Japan, India, etc etc as external threats????
Random, but I just love the fact that Admiral Yularen as an ISB officer was technically in ANH; since, in Rebels, they designed him to look exactly like that Imperial ISB officer that was sitting with the other Imperial officials and Vader in that meeting held on the Death Star.
If I remember correctly, Yularen was always meant to be the ISB commander in A New Hope.
That's my guy ever since the Failed Republic
It was more the other way around, the background character in ANH was named Admiral Yularen years before the Prequels where a thing, then when The Clone Wars came around, they repurposed him as a recurring character. When they had him appear in Rebels, they of course used his established design at that point in the timeline
Hes designed after him because thats literally him. The only reason he looks different in clone wars is because those wars turned his hair white.
Sorry i didnt realize someone else said it already.
Easy
Imperial Intelligence is a apolitical, professional organization
ISB, the Imperial Security Bureau, is a political organization that also dabbles in intelligence gathering, etc… as well as focusing politics, culture, youth organizing, and ‘Party’ politics
Not how Imperial Intelligence has been portrayed in new canon or Legends, in a dictatorship every part of the government is political.
Imagine today the difference between FSB and GRU in today Russia or the intelligence community in the US
The difference was similar to the difference between Wehrmacht intelligence service; the Abwehr, and the Waffen SS. One was the intelligence branch for the main military command structure, while the other worked at the behest of the Nazi Party and answered only to Hitler, while being composed of people super loyal to the regime.
Great example and analogy
Overall good analogy but a more accurate analogy would be the SS(and its subdivisions like Sicherheitsdienst, Gestapo, Sicherheitspolizei & Waffen SS) & Abwehr. The Waffen SS was a combat branch of the SS while the others handled internal security or intelligence(just proof of how paranoid & wasteful Nazi leaderahip was). The Abwehr on the other hand was hang over from Imperial Germany that predates the Franco-Prussian war by 4-5 years. Sadly it was dissolved after Wilhelm Canaris was suspected of supporting the July plot and others were exposed for leaking information. Never heard someone being hung by Piano Wire til I learned about Canaris.
Not to mention the the SS had it's own rival intelligence services with the Geheimnestaatspolizei (Gestapo) being quasi-integrated into the Allgemeine-SS, and the SS's own intelligence service the SicherheitsDienst (SD).
Needless to say, having a ton of bureaucratic organs compete with eachother in what can be called "bloodsports" was one of the many incompetent failings of the Nazis.
@@KardasheviteUltravisionary incompetent failings of the Nazis but essential for Hitler to be the only one who could act with confidence while every other power hungry nazi having to constantly look over their shoulders
The OG imperials set up their government this way
This was before Lucas decided to redo the lore in episodes 1-3
@@KardasheviteUltravisionary Please don't remind me, the German names and Acronyms are headaches enough without trying have to figure out what each did.😫🤕
The fact the empire had restrictions on the core worlds with who could own weapons implies the existence of an imperial version of the ATF which implies the existence of the Star Wars prohibition era
I think that's the Rousan reformation
@@johnburrill2625
Rusaan*, and not really. The reformation was about preventing militaries from being established. It…failed, by a lot, but it wasn’t about blaster control.
My dog isn't safe anywhere. Not even on Fondor
ASB: Alcohol, Spice, Blasters, & Explosives
@@LaneCorbett Huehuehuehuehuehuehue!
I know this is a Star Wars video but given the opening part just thought it’s important to note the US/CIA/FBI/other intelligence agencies are also politically driven especially ones like the CIA that work internationally. There’s that old cliche of it being “Capitalism’s Invisible Army” for precisely those ideological reasons.
Thank you that was a glaring omission, as i think the CIA has been horrible to people with all kinds of declassified experiment, ya everyone is evil but them. Okay.
It's Anglo-American (in service to) "neo-con bolshevism" Mercantilsim to be specific.
@@Veldtian1 no, those are kinda a bunch of words thrown together with loose connections to the history. It’s not Bolshevism whatsoever, nor is it merchatilism. It is derived from Anglo-American imperialism and neoliberal economics with the neoconservative movement spawning out of. But the full history goes back to things built over more than a century, neocons are only from like the last 40 years given neoliberalism was born in Chile via the coup and dictatorship in the 1970s.
i prefer "Clowns in America" or "Coup Intelligence Agency" but "Captialisms Invisible Army" is also a nice one.
@Philipp3022 the US is the Empire. Vietnam, Iraq, South America, and etc.
And this STILL doesn’t scratch the surface of Imperial Intelligence. All those divisions have subdivisions under them (this is probably why some think there are smaller agencies in the Empire). Though in practice, the only one who aren’t office workers are the Operations agents. If you meet someone from II, they are almost certainly in Operations. If they kill you, they are a part of the Assassination office. If he’s a double agent, that’s Infiltration. And if, suddenly, the commander of a Rebel garrison suddenly turns on the government of the Rebel colony and begins rounding up people for a purge, congratulations! You’ve just been visited by Destabilization (Destab), the department that makes even Assassination queasy.
Did anybody else notice how Allen said Purpose, seems pretty dolphin to me.
Youre a dolphin
@@GenerationTech 🧐
Kind of sus
Sounded like porpoises 🐋, or was it some sort of New York accent 🤔
@@GenerationTech ur such a troll😂😂
Another important distinction is the general attitude toward the Rebellion. To the II and Imperial Military generally, the rebels were enemies. Yes, you fight your enemies, but you can respect, and even in some ways admire them. To the ISB, the rebels were effectively heretics. They had seen the "truth" according to Compnor and rejected it. You don't respect heretics; you most certainly don't admire them. You simply destest them, as they are no more worthy of respect or mercy than a bug or a discarded food wrapper. You either dispose of it or recycle it into something useful via the Reeducation Corps.
0:34 _"what their Porpoise's were" …_
The mask is slipping.
I for one welcome our oceanic mammalian overlords.
@@notaspy1227 but who runs the dolphins?
Ever notice that orcas never sing? Tight lipped sadistic bastards...
This
If anyone's interested in the 'original' establishment of the lore for these grous in the EU, look up the old West End Games Imperial Sourcebooks. They came out in the 80's and 90's and helped developed a lot of the things in the EU for how the Imperial military worked. A very fun read and extremely well written and they set a lot of the foundational blocks for how things worked.
TK-532, “Do you care if it falls?”
TK-226, “What?”
TK-532, “The Galactic Empire?”
TK-226 reveals as ISB, “Gotcha you traitor!”
If TK-532 was also ISB and testing 226, that would be hysterical. It would be like that "Police undercover as drug buyers get into a fight with police undercover as drug sellers" incident LMAO
TK-226: "You rebel scum."
Shouldn't that be only two KNOWN intelligence services? I'd imagine something the size of this empire would have quite a few nefarious sercret organisations.
Given the galactic scale and the 2 known intelligence agencies, it could argued there would be hundreds of smaller group of agencies that operate per planet or system. Each of the 20 Moffs, for example, could each have their own little dark corner of the ISB or Imperial Intelligence that are secret sections that they have for their own agendas, politically or militarily. It reminds me of stories about Germany after WWII when German spies working for the US Government were captured by Soviet spies and forced to defect and spy for the Soviet Union while still on the US payroll.
Palpatine's secret sith cults and inquisitors were probably involved in some intelligence activities of their own, if you want to be broad about what counts as an 'agency'.
In Legends there is the Emperor’s Inner Circle. I wonder what that would be classified as?
Emperor's Hand, private spy networks, among others.
@@dhwwiiexpert The Imperial Ruling Council or Emperor's Inner Circle was the clandestine advisory/ executive ruling body that acted as Palpatine's proxy's and many members of the Inner Circle where aware of his identity as Darth Sidious, Dark Lord of the Sith.
The ISB sounds like the Romulan Tal Shiar from Star Trek. “Face of the Enemy” (TNG Season 6, Episode 14) clearly portrays the hatred that the Romulan military feels toward the Tal Shiar.
2:14 bruh ussr got Batman working for them
The GRU/KGB comparison is a very good one.
Thank you for being one of my few regular rotation SW creators that loves Andor! I love it too and can’t get enough of it.
I like how you make real word connections in your videos. It provides comparisons and further depth into the subject. Great work!
Why the switch in allegiance, Alan? Next thing you know, you'll be friends with a dolphin.
Long live the Empire!
So say we all ! ...... oops wrong franchise
I like how you drew the comparisons of the Empire’s Intelligence agencies with real world ones like the KGB, GRU, SS, CIA and others. The history nerd in me enjoyed this. 👏🏽
I’m subscribing to you
The SS was more akin to a paramilitary organization that wasn't officially part of the army but had equally good equipment. An exmaple is found in Iran. The Sepah is para military while the Artesh is the official army
"and explain what their porpoises"
Naval Intelligence also exists within the Empire. “Tarkin” book covers that, iirc.
There was a third, COMPNOR, but it was kinda rough
What does that stand for, again?
@@an-animal-lover Committee for the Preservation of the New Order
@@haroldcarfrey4206 thank you
0:34 "....explain what their porpoises were..."
Alan would never make a flub like that... (gasp) The dolphins must have him!
Suppression of internal descent is ideal for any apex empire. Russia, China, the increasingly the USA...
Because Russia and China infiltrate the USA .......
I think of it like the FBI vs the CIA.
Odd question. Fewer intelligence agencies often have advantages in terms of coordination and analysis. Multiple agencies often lead to siloing and institutional group think as well as resistance to cooperation and sharing. And sometimes it leads to outright rivalry that can be counter-productive, not unlike the relationship between the Abwehr and SD during WWII. There should only be three types of intelligence agencies, or subagencies: Domestic intelligence, foreign and military specific. More than this and there begs dysfunction. The Pre-9/11 US intelligence system is a prime example of how multiple, overlapping agencies often refused to work with another, and how analysis tended toward toeing an institutional line rather than providing a clear picture for decision makers.
That's not a bug, it's a feature when you don't want to give to much power in one hand e.g. Beria and the NKWD in the Stalin era
This is my favorite channel for SW info because you don't needlessly repeat things just to pad your video length like some others do. Thank you for that.
It seems that calling palpatine paranoid would be an understatement.
Would’ve been cool if you touched up on Sith Intelligence/TOR era Imperial Intelligence. There’s SO much lore there and it’s all so neat
TOR?
@@an-animal-lover The Old Republic
@@qr-code6334 oh, right
Heh, makes me think of one of my favorite lines from TOR:
_”They’re scared of you here, aren’t they? You come, you go. You’re the freaking secret police…”_
@Richard Roe possibly
The Old Republic, i was wondering too.
@Richard Roe Usually it's abbreviated as SWTOR, for Star Wars The Old Republic. The line is from Kaliyo, one of the characters in the Agent class storyline.
Real World
Number of intelligence agencies for 4 european countries
France: 10
UK : 10
Germany: 10 Federal +16 (one per Land (state))
Italy : 4
Germany has 3. Not 10.
France only has 5 agency in the intel community...
DGSE=>it's job is to gather intelligence on foreign soil and manage clandestine action
DGSI=>mostly police intelligence, but also counter espionnage on the civilian level
DRSD=>the counter espionnage for the military and everything surrounding military affair
DRM=>intelligence processing for the military HQ
TRACFIN=>tax fraud specialist
Anything else are joint entity or subordinated services.
Germany has just 3 federal...BfVS (Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz) - internal, BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst) - external , MAD (Militärischer Abschirmdienst) - military
you said porpoises instead of purpose
Only two that you know of, there is actually [redacted] and [redacted] who formed after [redacted].
Love you bro
Unfortunately, no matter what intelligence agency you are a part of, and how competent your agency is, the current politics will always trump actually facts.
Live action Action Agent Kallus would be so rad. ISB = SS
Hey Generation Tech, I don't know if you will see this, but can you make a video on how the ranking system works in the empire. thx :)
I think there's already some videos out there about it....
The real world comparisons are handy. From elsewhere in fiction, one could see the II and ISB having parallels to regular military intelligence versus the more cloak and dagger organizations in Star Trek. Starfleet Intelligence vs. Section 31, or the standard intel officers as opposed to the Cardassian Union's Obsidian Order or the Romulan Tal Shiar. The latter two had similar operational authority over regular assets while 31 was meant to operate purely by subterfuge but also "recruit" regular officers and/or manipulate them into completing dangerous assignments or sniff out internal dangers to the UFP.
In andor we hear that there is also army intelligence which would be regular military intelligence
I wonfer is this come in play in Andor more. Rivalry, infiltrators, informants, etc. Endless possibilities.
Read about this online trying to find the difference not 2 months ago. THANK YOU, ALLEN!
If the Commonwealth is proclaimed in place of the Republic, will that make any difference?
@trueblueprussian 23 I think he means the United States Commonwealth of Fallout?
i appreciate you man, these are the details of the universe we need :]
Thanks for this video comparing the ISB and Imperial Intelligence with various real-world spy agencies. Like the comparison with Soviet and Chinese intelligence agencies in particular.
Thanks for all your hard work 👍🇬🇧
Imperial Intelligence:It's a contradiction in terms!
I was suprised Disney didnt include COMPNOR
Technically ISB is part of COMPNOR.
Because even in a fictional totalitarian superstate, writers couldn't fathom the Empire having more intel agencies than the US
".... explain what their porpoises were" .... lmfao
they also had naval intelligence
Army Intelligence existed too
@@DarkPuppy9 he mentioned that to.
@@DarkPuppy9 he didn’t mention naval intelligence. And inquisitors was an “technically” an intelligence organization
@@mattheweaton9111 i can see leaving out the Inquisition since it predominantly dealt with force users.
@@DarkPuppy9 yeah but they did other things. Seek out rebel cells and assassinate as well as spy on people for palpatine. At least in legends. In canon all they do is fail to take out padwans and betray Vader.
Haven’t watched the video, but, stab in the dark is the difference similar to how the FBI and CIA are different?
4:24 Forgot this was a Star Wars video for a second....
Did he say "porpoise" instead of purpose at the beginning????
They need to be strong enough to do their job, but not strong enough to overthrow the Emperor.
Can you please continue the separatist alliance vs earth series please
love ur videos plaz do a video were look at real planes or concept planes and starwars ships that look similar
Simple, both serve the same job but in different area.
Imperial Security Bureau gather intel from internal sources ,counter and deter threat from within their borders such as resistances, terrorists and rebels (which include sympathizers from civilians to political figures.)
imperial Intelligence a seperated branch of the imperial navy that cooperate by rather intel from external sources.
Hey, there also was this "Secret Order" from the Tie Fighter game!
0:35 porpoise
Actually there are at least 3 main divisions of intelligence, in the Thrawn novels it is revealed that the 2 prominent ones are Naval Intelligence and the ISB, but they have a similar relationship to the CIA and FBI (or at least how they are portrayed and sometimes act), so are often at each other's throats when interests and missions collide
I think the difference is that the ISB were super loyal to Palptine
Palpatine literally had his Simp running intelligence, Ysanne Isard. They were also dead loyal to the emperor in legends anyways. ISB however always struck me as law enforcement like the Gestapo specializing in criminal investigations, surveillance, policing, and removing internal threats. Yes they also have spies but espionage isn’t the reason they exist it’s just something they need to do. Where as Military intelligence specialized in foriegn intelligence on enemy’s as well as covert operations directed at destabilizing the enemy. But mainly gathering intel to hand to the military to uttilize. So it’s more like the CIA or the Abwehr. It can over throw governments and assassinate people and does do that more then it really should. But it’s primary purpose is the collection of intelligence on foriegn threats and influence operations.
@@theempiredidnothingwrong3227 that is true and love your profile name.
Yeah anything under compnor is usually run by Palpatine fanatics
@@user-Jay178 I’ll admit it brings a smile to my face when I see a notification on my phone that begins with, The Empire did nothing wrong.
@@theempiredidnothingwrong3227 nice
I liked the sith empires model from the old republic
Two main agencies military intelligence and imperial intelligence within imperial intelligence you have the general organization dealing with policing ,surveillance data gathering internal security and field operations/military support.
Then you have the operations division answering directly to the minister of intelligence a flexible quick response unit of the empires most highly trained operatives able to work independently in the field. Dealing with high level threats anti espionage and counter terrorism.
Nice use of the "Alienated" music from ELFL, also known as the unofficial Popcorn in Bed theme.
The empire is very similarly real and could work in real life like the first order the reason why snoke was the call Supreme leader was because palpatine was the real one in charge its just like in north korea how kim Jong un is the Supreme leader not president thats because his grand father is the eternal president even in death they see him as the eternal president just like palpatine in death he is still in charge he is still the eternal emperor of the galaxy empire firstorder sith eternal
Put this guy in charge of the new Star Wars
Well ISB is internal security and Imperial intelligence would be Military intelligence. Since the military doesn't have separate branches as we would know them it makes sense they wouldn't have more than one military intel service. I mean everything from ground forces to storm troopers seem to operate as subsidiaries of the Imperial Navy.
IIRC there were also others such as the Ubiqtorate?
The Ubiqtorate IS Imperial Intelligence. That is just another name for it. They are one in the same.
How should the New Republic be organized structurally?
The Lusankya called and wants to break free...
"and explain what their porpoises were" 🤣🤣🤣
8:29
Allen gets censored by a dolphin?
Coincidence? I think NOT!
Heresy!!!!
The Holy inquisition has redacted this video……..
☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
They should implement an Imperial Social Credit and an Imperial Bureau of Disinformation Governance
Actually the USA has over a thousand intelligence agencies.
Great video, enjoyed this.
It is a well known practice to have two different intel groups to observe and report on the same target. If their reports don't match then one of them is lying.
Imperial Intelligence was the sister organization of the ISB, meaning II was entirely reliant on ISB to exist
Hi Generation Tech, can you folks do a similar video about the Republic Intelligence Services? Love your vids btw
Takeaway from the video: Batman is a GRU agent.
So did clone intelligence during the clone wars just become imperial intelligence?
Yes
1:43 are you are the Alphabet agencies are decentralized?
anyone else recognize the Klingon bat'leth here 11:43
Yup! And not any Bat'leth. It's Kahless' bat'leth. Wich means when Worf and Kor beamed it into space, it somehow ended up in the Star Wars' universe. Good luck for any klingon to ever find that sacred relic now.
@@maaderllin I wasn't sure everyone would know it's the sword of Kahless' so that's why I didn't go into specifics by I wonder how it traveld back in time (unless a long time ago is only afrw centuries ago)
THANK-YOU! I was looking for this comment SPECIFICALLY. I KNEW that I wasn't going mad. 🤪 I was like, "What the F... ?!! WHAT?!!"
Wouldn't the Inquisitors be a third branch?
11:44 Klingon Bat'leth
Love your cap. Pura vida!
He said purposes like the animal lol
There needs be two Intelligence Agencies.
The first Agency exists solely to gather and verify information from all over the Galaxy, that the Empire might have accurate and timely knowledge of all things.
The second Agency exists solely to keep an eye on the inner workings of the Empire itself, and reports their findings directly to the Emperor.
That's not how it works, because the competition between this two intelligence organisations is organized on purpose by the Emperor
17 agencies. Q = 17th letter. 17 planets in Solar System (8 planets, 9 dwarf planets) ;)
Internal Security and Military Intelligence I guess, like Russian/Soviet Union KGB/GRU, UK, MI5/Mi6, US FBI and Homeland/CIA.
only questions who is the imperial version of the soviet/russian mvd then?
Can I just say Kallus's sideburns are awesome
Also, did not know ONI was a real thing, thought that was just a Halo thing 😂
I was playing Warhammer and missed parts so had to watch twice
nice now can we get a video like this but about the republic?....im sure they had intelligence agencies as well
"What were there porpoises were".... Dolphin joke???
The dolphins censored this.
Porposes??
🙋🏻♂️ Does anybody know if the I.S.B. had ranks outside the standard ranking system of the Imperial military just like the ... people under Himmler had their own names for ranks? Major versus Sturmbannführer?
Current official ones are Special Agent (Kallus), Lieutenant (Deedra from Andor), Major (Peetraz I think is his name from Andor) and Colonel (Yularen, Rebels and Andor) outside that there is at least likely a Director and Deputy Director
Thanks👍🏻
Karen: "They're the same picture."
I look quite handsome on that poster
oh