Amy Cooper committed a misdemeanor in addition to her appalling bias and lies. And she clearly had no care for the dog; many shelters screen for care, so they can make that judgment. That seems a little different than having an opinion that others don't agree with, yet that deserves to be heard in our global conversation.
I think that internet "trolling" is part of the nature of the beast. Plus, everyone seems so pleased nowadays to be offended about very nearly everything as a badge of honor of their identity. Employment contracts could be updated to reflect that. Using the cops to bully Black men is way beyond anything in which any reasonable person would engage.
A person has a right to decide how to spend their money. If a person professes blatantly racist attitudes, I don't want to spend my money on their product or at their establishment and reward them.
I agree she shouldn't have lost her job. That took it too far. Her actions were wrong but taking away a paycheck can have a horrible consequence. What if she had committed suicide? It feels, to me, like social media bullying.
Yes. But also, what if the police had showed up and shot Christian Cooper dead. He too could have been killed just as easily. Amy Cooper knew that by calling the cops on him, Mr.Coopers race would put him at a disadvantage.
@@rachelmaechel he wasn't shot and people do stupid things. Look at the woman in Florida making videos about police brutality only to find out her friend stole the car they were in. People do stupid things should their lives be totally ruined?
@@joyrobin947 I'm not arguing with you Joy. I know he wasn't shot. And Karen did not commit suicide either. She will be okay. Lesson learned. Think about how many people are sitting in Jail (or dead) because they did "stupid things". Karen still has her freedom. And she is alive. So let's move on.
I'm not mad that she lost her job, her actions were reprehensible, but I think she should have lost her job because the employer didn't want that kind of person working for them, rather then the public calling for her to be fired.
I disagree, Amy Cooper, call the cop knowing she calling be causing the death of a human begin. Saying he was attacking her. I would have placed her in jail as attempted murder. If you have a child of color to get some false charged of a crime. That not under free speech that is false imprisonment to inflict harm. I believe she deserves to be in jail and anyone who makes a false charge which can cause harm.
I don't know who that black man is you are interviewing is, and just for the record I am white, but i was stunned when he said that the company who fired the woman in the park who called the police on the black man bird watching was over the top! SHE WAS LOOKING TO GET THAT MAN KILLED! What is wrong with you? Her firing was over the top!!! wow. I think it was more than approprate and sent a strong message---WHICH IS WHAT IS NEEDED TO STOP SOME OF THIS G*D D*MN RACIST HATE! I had to stop in the middle of making a salad for my dinner to send this message i was so appalled at what your interviewee said!!!
I will preface what I am going to say here is that I am a white female: I totally disagree with Mr. Williams stance that the repercussions to the woman who called the police on the birdwatcher went too far. Mr. Williams states that she should not have "lost her livelihood." I find this statement astounding, considering the fact that the woman called the police in the hopes that the birdwacther would "lose his life"!
Powersettings M Year. Back in year 0 when people had to be responsible for what they did and said cause you know..... humans are known to have problems with what other people do and say.
This whole discussion is based on the misguided premise that free speech is transparently available to everyone in the same form. It's not. Like everything, it's subject to class, race and gender disparities. The essential question is "how is free speech instrumentalized by the dominant norms of our time (ie whiteness)?"
I completely disagree on the Cooper case--really lost credibility with his response. She was not engaging in public discourse, but she was being openly racist and she made a threat against that man.
Obviously she wasn't engaging in any kind of constructive discourse, but Williams' thoughts about not wanting to end up in a place where every transgression is punitively punished are valid. That Cooper was effectively made the poster-person for bad behavior perhaps is the wake up call many people need to improve their ways ... and I hope they do.
What?!!!👀👀👀... so what Karen lost her livelihood! She didn’t lose her life-or even come close...Black people have lost their lives for much less...That man was in serious danger of losing his life for what she did. She SHOULD be in jail for attempting to shut him up, forever.😳
@ThePacopet I dont actually care. We are the civilized ones and we dont make laws for the sake of revenge or malice. A big fine would have been enough with all the other stuff she got
@ThePacopet She does need to grow up but then she is still part of the same community we are. Her quality of life affects us and if she ceases to be such an asshole because she fears big fines and feels she has been fairly dealt with at the same time we may even manage to walk our dogs in the same places without resentment. We can hope
I cannot bring myself to do business with companies that fund hate and suffering. I simply cannot do that, and money is the only thing that these revolting people understand. They will not spread their evil with profits they make off of me.
Social media is not the voice of the people, it's a garbage dump and playground for some professional, but mostly amateur agitators . It's not even possible to meassure, even guess, the actual impact any given issue hyped on those platforms has, how many actual supporters or detractors there are, or how serious any poster, re-poster or likers are being . It's just a random noice generator that has become a measurement tool for no clear reason, and without merit . Ignoring it altogether would be the responsible thing to do, and not a shred of knowledge would be lost . The court of public opinion, when not guided by proper procedures like voting etc. , is just an unruly mob out for a lynching (!) .
It is still the voice of the people. When social media arrived we hadnt realized most of the world lived in a shadowy half world where they boiled in resentment and outrage at all the things they didnt agree with. Social media lanced a big boil. Then the politicians saw it had power and their trolls moved in. Just like everywhere else. It is truly the voice of the people.
She got her dog back after 10 days. I'll bet she got another job, too, or she will be offered one by a racist. Remember that story about bad luck/good luck/'maybe.'
There is such a fine line there, and he doesn't seem to see it. Overreactions to faschist/sexist/hateful behavior is not good. But there has to be a reaction nonetheless.
40 hrs x $15.00 = $600 WOW -------I challenge Congress to live on that budget of $600 a week while they on are a month paid vacation, compliments of wage earners/tax payers!
I agree Amy Cooper shouldn't have lost her job and dog before she could face charges, but Amy Cooper willingly put people's well-being at risk. She told the police Christian Cooper was threatening her life. If the cops had shown up, they easily could have shot first and asked questions later. She needs to at least be charged with misdemeanor for filing a false report. In all likelihood, the jury would convict her because of overwhelming evidence (even if they might have other motives as well). If she had been convicted before being fired, I believe she would've lost her job anyway. It's not that her punishment has been too harsh; the problem is that her punishment was extrajudicial.
She got what she deserved, she was more than willing to Put someone else's Freedom at Risk which surely would have cost the Man his job and possibly a permanent record which would ruin his life let alone Substantial financial loss litigating false charges.
I understand that Amy Cooper was charged for that misdemeanor . But even though I strongly disagree with her behaviour, it is beyond me how this is any business of her employer's, and how they could legally fire her . Especially since her employer is a US investment firm, the kind of company that isn't known for integrity and social responsibilty .
horsterer77 Employers have a moral clause in their contracts.. She violated that clause.. Also, the investment bank wants to save face & appear like they upstanding..
@CosmicDamian Her lie could easily have resulted in his death. Her life was not canceled. She can get another job and in this country, where people have such short attention spans, her period of extreme humiliation will pass. She even got her dog back. Lesson learned for her, and perhaps for others who act or would act in such a way without thinking first about possible consequences not only for themselves, but for others.
I sensed that Walter thought that he might get cancelled if he didn't ask skeptical or adversarial questions. It was very impressive to see TCW answer them so well.
There ya go. People who lived in a different time need to be cut some slack for god sake. I grew up in a very non racist family but what was ok then would never fly today and my parents would be enlightened for sure. I totally support my black brothers and sisters but wearing black face 20 years ago was acceptable. Was it wrong? sure it was but that was then and those people would never do that now. I'm italian american and the names we were called in good humor never upset me then. It was funny then but now, not so much.
If the Public Shaming effect worked, then the number of "Karens" would diminish. They haven't. They seem immune to Shaming. That doesn't and shouldn't mean that the Shaming should stop.
The problem is that when one has been shamed constantly they lose all sense of shame. All systemic shaming does is create more people where shaming doesnt work.
I applaud this guy and his other 3 friends! IMHO, PC culture started this and then it was incorporated by the right and no one can speak anymore otherwise the masses go after that person like bees ... (Black Mirror reference).
4 года назад+1
Yeah....thing is people deride PC culture, UNTIL someone criticizes their ass, then they are ready to fight!
She could have gotten him killed. I don't think the reaction to what she did was too much. She not only called the police, but she lied about him threatening her life. Had the police shown up, guns blazing before even finding out what was happening as happens way too often in these situations, her exercise of her white privilege could easily have resulted in a life lost...his life lost...because of her actions. She can get another job and she got her dog back. Sometimes the lesson for racists is costly.
Exactly! Amy Cooper did not get beaten bloody and unconscious, or shot dead, as so many people of color have! She did not get cancelled at all. She still has all her limbs and good health. She did not sustain any injury!!!
@ Yes Gay people are people. Well see the issues are deep. Many people don't agree with Gay marriage, and transgender people who deny their biological sex and want others to go along with that. Ignoring the fact of gender dysphoria.
@@annr3800 How exactly does it affect you or is it any of your business? BTW 30% of trans people end up committing suicide so I hope you're proud of yourself for contributing to that.
@@annr3800 HOW? Who are we? I'm part of society and it doesn't affect me in the least. I don't care who people marry. I don't care what they wear. They aren't hurting anyone. But YOU are hurting them. 1 in 3 commit suicide because of people like you. I would say that makes YOU the problem.
Cancel culture...Do you mean like firing a football player for speaking up against police brutality? Do you mean like firing people for being lgbtq? Do you mean like not giving women loans? Do you mean like keeping people out of certain neighborhoods because of their race? Do you mean like dismissing women by calling them crazy? Do you mean like calling Trump voters deplorable? Do you mean like calling Bernie supporters Bernie Bros? Interesting.
I like how this brother thinks progressive. Freedom of thought, speech, and moral behaviour should never be suppressed or repressed. The inalienable rights of every human being should be respected and protected.
No one has the right to use their power to put someone else's life at risk, especially by telling a lie to the police. Absolute freedom of speech does not exist...and should not. There are times when exercising that freedom can result in harm to another. Lying to the police and saying that a black man is threatening your life can and does often result in summary execution for that black man in this country. She can get another job and she got her dog back. Lesson learned about miss-using her power and fortunately nobody had to die for her to learn the lesson.
that is what has happened to many people who are considered inferior such as people who have been sent to prison or to someone who wants to live a ,,other life,,,off grid is not allowed ,,you must contribute to the commercialism and pay tribute or you are not allowed to live. It has been people who are considered non white lately in the news but this happens to many who are in the middle of a class war or a militant war. If you are not wealthy you lose. If you are not shining the right buttons in the government you lose. Also those bigots canceled the culture of the native tribes. wholesale,,,murdered them when they did not comply and move onto confinement.
After hearing what she said, why would Amy Cooper’s co workers feel comfortable with her at the workplace, especially the non-white ones? Also, morality clauses are a thing in contracts. Also, right to work. Also, public racism is a serious liability to a company’s financial stability. She can find another job- faster than Chris Cooper would after an arrest if her plan prevailed. What she was setting up over the phone was a situation where a man wouldn’t be able to find another life at worst or live beyond bars at best. In NY of all places she pulled this stunt. Chris Cooper was lucky. Infantilizing malicious actors is a psychological issue many victims and a sect of oppressed minorities have to deal with. It’s weird to me because it seems to them and others to be a form of grace. Though to me, it seems like denial and a way for malicious actors to continue feeling justified in their unchanged behavior. Amy Cooper was a poor example to use in my opinion because she got what she deserved. Unless the man was actually aggressive and guilty of something, she got what she deserved. I do find it questionable for him to have sympathy considering what she did, so it does make me question his innocence. It’s possible his sympathy is rooted in incidental guilt. Nonetheless a better example was the museum curator. Nothing he did was unlawful or malignant. Those are where the real cancel culture conversations need to occur. Sympathizing with actual racists and bigots over Twitter inconveniencing them after they publicize their bigotry and racism however, is soooooooo tired and dry. I recommend checking out this dude’s recent conversation on Bad Faith Podcast though. There he is more philosophical about race and it aligns with my personal views on race. I think it would align with many who are watching this video or interested in what he has to sayz
3340steve So, people can say hateful things but other people shouldn‘t be allowed to react to it? Whose free speech do you want to protect? Everyone‘s, I hope...
@@annaturba that's not what I said...i believe all people should be able to speak freely and that we as a society should engage in meaningful communication, not to encourage hate speech.
As a brown man ... thanks for this open letter ..... we want all to behave as fellow kind human beings.... but theres nothing more horrible than feeling imprisoned in your own mind by less speech or expression from fear of punishment. Its the long slow death of a soul.
Cancel culture is just another form of political oppression, such as arises in fascism, communism, dictatorship, or any other system that sets itself up to say that there is only one acceptable point of view, one official meaning, one right rule for humans. There is really not much difference in the long term between oppression that begins within a political system and one that begins in a society, as political systems do not last forever without sufficient social acceptance (or against sufficient resistance). Both the right and left in this nation have been cancelling each other, effectively, for some time now, and we are seeing calls from both sides for asserting power in order to gain control enough to demand compliance from everyone. It's a process, growing rather fast today, and "cancel culture" is simply the left-wing version. And yes, of course it denies being what it is. So does the other side. What's new in that?
I think people should censor themselves before they push the button send! All to often people are voicing an opinion without thinking twice. Educate yourself before you decide to voice an opinion or ask questions first. And with regards to the Amy case , I have no sympathy for girls like her who for 100s of years have gotten away with murder. Yes murder! Many black men have had the police called on them for no reason and have been arrested and shot for no reason because some white chic felt it was ok to point the finger at the nearest black man. We can no longer have sympathy for white supremacy.
Jezus, young people nowadays are so fucked up. In the olden days, when people lived in little villages and everyone knew everything about everyone, anyone who breached the norms of that village would be ostacized by the villagers, until he or she crept back on their knees asking for forgiveness, and if they didn't, they would become outsiders. Can't we get beyond that, here in 2020, when we should all have more savvy and understanding of each other? Some people are truly assholes, and will always be assholes. So can't you just avoid those assholes and help anyone who they hurt, without tweeting about it to the whole fucking world? And give up racism and sexism - it's stupid and pointless. Just try to be a good person, and grow a thicker skin. People say and do stupid things all the fucking time, especially young people and right wing idiots. Cut them some slack, and if they are still assholes just avoid them whenever possible. You don't have to broadcast someone's stupidity to the whole fucking world. Just deal with it. There will always be disgusting jerks in this world, so just fucking deal with it.
As a white liberal, I fully agree with what was said. I also believe cancel culture today would not be as sharp if the political right had not jumped into a cess pool of racism and stupidity.
I never wrote racism or stupidity only exists on the right, it’s everywhere. But the aberration occupying the WH and his party are embracing it as his only path to reelection.
getting a job is part of the privilege that another might have lost exactly because of their skin colour. getting downgraded financially might be a more effective way of bringing some accountability. losing one's public persona... absolutely.
Wow Defund PBS... Problem facts versus narrative.... Facts versus Content... Amy Cooper, PLEASE WATCH ON RUclips “Let’s Give The “Karen” Central Park Dog Video Some Context” By Antony Brian Leonard How egotistical and arrogant journalism has become. SAD
Shawna Weesner Your so-called hero who killed George is as crooked as they come. He & his wife cheated in their taxes. Trump & family cheated in his taxes. Wall Street billionaires are not outstanding citizens.. So, please stop...
people who do and say bad things should be fined and should be suspended for a year, and free speech should be curtailed- don't say anything bad about religion unless and until it harms our society.
You are being canceled for being HOSTILE to certain groups of people, gay, colored, religious groups, YOU do not HAVE the FREEDOM to be HOSTILE to others. We don't cancel you for wanting less/more tax on the rich or more government vs less government, we want you CANCELED when you harm others. Like R.K. Rowlings did.
Yea I TOTALLY disagree with him. He’s definitely not for his people. All folk ain’t kinfolk.. dude is straight wack. It’s not extreme when you lose your job because your a racist. Gtfoh..
A very timely, humane and compassionate discussion of a very painful subject for our country in light of our ongoing human rights abuses.
Amy Cooper committed a misdemeanor in addition to her appalling bias and lies. And she clearly had no care for the dog; many shelters screen for care, so they can make that judgment. That seems a little different than having an opinion that others don't agree with, yet that deserves to be heard in our global conversation.
Why do so many people care about the dog more than the person?
fraslex I don't know thay they care more about the dog, but you can use her treatment of her own pet as a proxy for how she treats other humans.
I think that internet "trolling" is part of the nature of the beast. Plus, everyone seems so pleased nowadays to be offended about very nearly everything as a badge of honor of their identity. Employment contracts could be updated to reflect that. Using the cops to bully Black men is way beyond anything in which any reasonable person would engage.
A person has a right to decide how to spend their money. If a person professes blatantly racist attitudes, I don't want to spend my money on their product or at their establishment and reward them.
I agree she shouldn't have lost her job. That took it too far. Her actions were wrong but taking away a paycheck can have a horrible consequence. What if she had committed suicide? It feels, to me, like social media bullying.
Yes. But also, what if the police had showed up and shot Christian Cooper dead. He too could have been killed just as easily. Amy Cooper knew that by calling the cops on him, Mr.Coopers race would put him at a disadvantage.
It is.
@@rachelmaechel he wasn't shot and people do stupid things. Look at the woman in Florida making videos about police brutality only to find out her friend stole the car they were in. People do stupid things should their lives be totally ruined?
@@joyrobin947 I'm not arguing with you Joy. I know he wasn't shot. And Karen did not commit suicide either. She will be okay. Lesson learned. Think about how many people are sitting in Jail (or dead) because they did "stupid things". Karen still has her freedom. And she is alive. So let's move on.
I'm not mad that she lost her job, her actions were reprehensible, but I think she should have lost her job because the employer didn't want that kind of person working for them, rather then the public calling for her to be fired.
Cancel Culture is somewhat similar to the Salem Witch Trials. We need to be careful about this aberrant behavior
I disagree, Amy Cooper, call the cop knowing she calling be causing the death of a human begin. Saying he was attacking her. I would have placed her in jail as attempted murder. If you have a child of color to get some false charged of a crime. That not under free speech that is false imprisonment to inflict harm. I believe she deserves to be in jail and anyone who makes a false charge which can cause harm.
@Mr Yo Good way to catch a bullet.
@Mr Yo pretty sure they wouldn't send you to prison and the morgue.........
Exactly, I was thinking the same thing, like what is this guy talking about??
gotta agree with you there
Being offended is the new Self-Help Movement.
@Jessica Hicking I agree. the ego gets offended not the heart. Put that ego away and evolve!
I don't know who that black man is you are interviewing is, and just for the record I am white, but i was stunned when he said that the company who fired the woman in the park who called the police on the black man bird watching was over the top! SHE WAS LOOKING TO GET THAT MAN KILLED! What is wrong with you? Her firing was over the top!!! wow. I think it was more than approprate and sent a strong message---WHICH IS WHAT IS NEEDED TO STOP SOME OF THIS G*D D*MN RACIST HATE! I had to stop in the middle of making a salad for my dinner to send this message i was so appalled at what your interviewee said!!!
I will preface what I am going to say here is that I am a white female: I totally disagree with Mr. Williams stance that the repercussions to the woman who called the police on the birdwatcher went too far. Mr. Williams states that she should not have "lost her livelihood." I find this statement astounding, considering the fact that the woman called the police in the hopes that the birdwacther would "lose his life"!
Cancel culture went too far as soon as it came into existence
Powersettings M
Year. Back in year 0 when people had to be responsible for what they did and said cause you know..... humans are known to have problems with what other people do and say.
This whole discussion is based on the misguided premise that free speech is transparently available to everyone in the same form. It's not. Like everything, it's subject to class, race and gender disparities. The essential question is "how is free speech instrumentalized by the dominant norms of our time (ie whiteness)?"
Bingo!
Yes!
I completely disagree on the Cooper case--really lost credibility with his response. She was not engaging in public discourse, but she was being openly racist and she made a threat against that man.
Obviously she wasn't engaging in any kind of constructive discourse, but Williams' thoughts about not wanting to end up in a place where every transgression is punitively punished are valid. That Cooper was effectively made the poster-person for bad behavior perhaps is the wake up call many people need to improve their ways ... and I hope they do.
What?!!!👀👀👀... so what Karen lost her livelihood! She didn’t lose her life-or even come close...Black people have lost their lives for much less...That man was in serious danger of losing his life for what she did. She SHOULD be in jail for attempting to shut him up, forever.😳
Their malicious behavior doesn't justify ours. She should have been charged with malicious prosecution but a big fine would have covered it
@ThePacopet I dont actually care. We are the civilized ones and we dont make laws for the sake of revenge or malice. A big fine would have been enough with all the other stuff she got
@ThePacopet She does need to grow up but then she is still part of the same community we are. Her quality of life affects us and if she ceases to be such an asshole because she fears big fines and feels she has been fairly dealt with at the same time we may even manage to walk our dogs in the same places without resentment. We can hope
@ThePacopet Ha ha, That's alright. I enjoyed hearing your opinion. Thanks :-)
I think this is the best interview I’ve seen in long time!! Excellent
I cannot bring myself to do business with companies that fund hate and suffering. I simply cannot do that, and money is the only thing that these revolting people understand. They will not spread their evil with profits they make off of me.
This Thomas Chatterton Williams is simply BRILLIANT 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
One person’s brilliant is another person’s....
He made good points but I wouldn’t call it brilliant. Cancel me now if you Want
Social media is not the voice of the people, it's a garbage dump and playground for some professional, but mostly amateur agitators .
It's not even possible to meassure, even guess, the actual impact any given issue hyped on those platforms has, how many actual supporters or detractors there are, or how serious any poster, re-poster or likers are being . It's just a random noice generator that has become a measurement tool for no clear reason, and without merit .
Ignoring it altogether would be the responsible thing to do, and not a shred of knowledge would be lost .
The court of public opinion, when not guided by proper procedures like voting etc. , is just an unruly mob out for a lynching (!) .
Yep. I quit FB months ago. garbage!
It is still the voice of the people. When social media arrived we hadnt realized most of the world lived in a shadowy half world where they boiled in resentment and outrage at all the things they didnt agree with. Social media lanced a big boil. Then the politicians saw it had power and their trolls moved in. Just like everywhere else. It is truly the voice of the people.
She got her dog back after 10 days. I'll bet she got another job, too, or she will be offered one by a racist. Remember that story about bad luck/good luck/'maybe.'
There is such a fine line there, and he doesn't seem to see it. Overreactions to faschist/sexist/hateful behavior is not good. But there has to be a reaction nonetheless.
40 hrs x $15.00 = $600 WOW -------I challenge Congress to live on that budget of $600 a week while they on are a month paid vacation, compliments of wage earners/tax payers!
I agree Amy Cooper shouldn't have lost her job and dog before she could face charges, but Amy Cooper willingly put people's well-being at risk. She told the police Christian Cooper was threatening her life. If the cops had shown up, they easily could have shot first and asked questions later. She needs to at least be charged with misdemeanor for filing a false report. In all likelihood, the jury would convict her because of overwhelming evidence (even if they might have other motives as well). If she had been convicted before being fired, I believe she would've lost her job anyway. It's not that her punishment has been too harsh; the problem is that her punishment was extrajudicial.
She got what she deserved, she was more than willing to Put someone else's Freedom at Risk which surely would have cost the Man his job and possibly a permanent record which would ruin his life let alone Substantial financial loss litigating false charges.
She knew better. She got what she deserved.
@@Gcanno She actually could have gotten him killed.
I understand that Amy Cooper was charged for that misdemeanor .
But even though I strongly disagree with her behaviour, it is beyond me how this is any business of her employer's, and how they could legally fire her .
Especially since her employer is a US investment firm, the kind of company that isn't known for integrity and social responsibilty .
horsterer77 Employers have a moral clause in their contracts.. She violated that clause.. Also, the investment bank wants to save face & appear like they upstanding..
She was trying to take away his life. Life has a way of balancing things out.
@CosmicDamian Her lie could easily have resulted in his death. Her life was not canceled. She can get another job and in this country, where people have such short attention spans, her period of extreme humiliation will pass. She even got her dog back. Lesson learned for her, and perhaps for others who act or would act in such a way without thinking first about possible consequences not only for themselves, but for others.
Agreed!
@CosmicDamian Her life did NOT get cancelled! She is alive!!!
Really? You know her psyche that well? I don't know yours from that comment.
I sensed that Walter thought that he might get cancelled if he didn't ask skeptical or adversarial questions. It was very impressive to see TCW answer them so well.
Wish police brutality could be cancelled. Wish people attacking us because they can would cancel. Until those two are cancelled......
There ya go. People who lived in a different time need to be cut some slack for god sake. I grew up in a very non racist family but what was ok then would never fly today and my parents would be enlightened for sure. I totally support my black brothers and sisters but wearing black face 20 years ago was acceptable. Was it wrong? sure it was but that was then and those people would never do that now. I'm italian american and the names we were called in good humor never upset me then. It was funny then but now, not so much.
If the Public Shaming effect worked, then the number of "Karens" would diminish. They haven't. They seem immune to Shaming. That doesn't and shouldn't mean that the Shaming should stop.
The problem is that when one has been shamed constantly they lose all sense of shame. All systemic shaming does is create more people where shaming doesnt work.
Its no new norm. Its either your racist or your not.
WHY are we adopting the language of the right wing? Please answer me that.
That Bayard Rustin quote is devastating!! Great conversation...enter Voltaire.
I applaud this guy and his other 3 friends! IMHO, PC culture started this and then it was incorporated by the right and no one can speak anymore otherwise the masses go after that person like bees ... (Black Mirror reference).
Yeah....thing is people deride PC culture, UNTIL someone criticizes their ass, then they are ready to fight!
She could have gotten him killed. I don't think the reaction to what she did was too much. She not only called the police, but she lied about him threatening her life. Had the police shown up, guns blazing before even finding out what was happening as happens way too often in these situations, her exercise of her white privilege could easily have resulted in a life lost...his life lost...because of her actions.
She can get another job and she got her dog back. Sometimes the lesson for racists is costly.
Exactly! Amy Cooper did not get beaten bloody and unconscious, or shot dead, as so many people of color have! She did not get cancelled at all. She still has all her limbs and good health. She did not sustain any injury!!!
So if I don't agree with the LGB community can I still be heard?
@ Yes Gay people are people. Well see the issues are deep. Many people don't agree with Gay marriage, and transgender people who deny their biological sex and want others to go along with that. Ignoring the fact of gender dysphoria.
@@annr3800 How exactly does it affect you or is it any of your business? BTW 30% of trans people end up committing suicide so I hope you're proud of yourself for contributing to that.
@@cyrene7784 It affects all of us. And is definitely my business. It affects all of society. Basic principles of who we are.
@@annr3800 HOW? Who are we? I'm part of society and it doesn't affect me in the least. I don't care who people marry. I don't care what they wear. They aren't hurting anyone. But YOU are hurting them. 1 in 3 commit suicide because of people like you. I would say that makes YOU the problem.
@ There doesn't have to be as long as everyone doesn't have to agree
That's true. I rather be right, than popular.
It went too far 10 years ago. Its been off the rails for years. Ask any comedian
Cancel culture...Do you mean like firing a football player for speaking up against police brutality? Do you mean like firing people for being lgbtq? Do you mean like not giving women loans? Do you mean like keeping people out of certain neighborhoods because of their race? Do you mean like dismissing women by calling them crazy? Do you mean like calling Trump voters deplorable? Do you mean like calling Bernie supporters Bernie Bros?
Interesting.
YES! Thank you!
I like how this brother thinks progressive. Freedom of thought, speech, and moral behaviour should never be suppressed or repressed. The inalienable rights of every human being should be respected and protected.
No one has the right to use their power to put someone else's life at risk, especially by telling a lie to the police. Absolute freedom of speech does not exist...and should not. There are times when exercising that freedom can result in harm to another. Lying to the police and saying that a black man is threatening your life can and does often result in summary execution for that black man in this country. She can get another job and she got her dog back. Lesson learned about miss-using her power and fortunately nobody had to die for her to learn the lesson.
shesaknitter ...yeah it SHOULD be respected but isn’t for Black people👀... you can even ask someone to obey the law without them calling the police😳
that is what has happened to many people who are considered inferior such as people who have been sent to prison or to someone who wants to live a ,,other life,,,off grid is not allowed ,,you must contribute to the commercialism and pay tribute or you are not allowed to live. It has been people who are considered non white lately in the news but this happens to many who are in the middle of a class war or a militant war. If you are not wealthy you lose. If you are not shining the right buttons in the government you lose. Also those bigots canceled the culture of the native tribes. wholesale,,,murdered them when they did not comply and move onto confinement.
After hearing what she said, why would Amy Cooper’s co workers feel comfortable with her at the workplace, especially the non-white ones?
Also, morality clauses are a thing in contracts. Also, right to work. Also, public racism is a serious liability to a company’s financial stability.
She can find another job- faster than Chris Cooper would after an arrest if her plan prevailed.
What she was setting up over the phone was a situation where a man wouldn’t be able to find another life at worst or live beyond bars at best. In NY of all places she pulled this stunt. Chris Cooper was lucky.
Infantilizing malicious actors is a psychological issue many victims and a sect of oppressed minorities have to deal with. It’s weird to me because it seems to them and others to be a form of grace. Though to me, it seems like denial and a way for malicious actors to continue feeling justified in their unchanged behavior.
Amy Cooper was a poor example to use in my opinion because she got what she deserved. Unless the man was actually aggressive and guilty of something, she got what she deserved. I do find it questionable for him to have sympathy considering what she did, so it does make me question his innocence. It’s possible his sympathy is rooted in incidental guilt.
Nonetheless a better example was the museum curator. Nothing he did was unlawful or malignant. Those are where the real cancel culture conversations need to occur.
Sympathizing with actual racists and bigots over Twitter inconveniencing them after they publicize their bigotry and racism however, is soooooooo tired and dry.
I recommend checking out this dude’s recent conversation on Bad Faith Podcast though. There he is more philosophical about race and it aligns with my personal views on race. I think it would align with many who are watching this video or interested in what he has to sayz
Please fight as vociferously against mass incarceration.
Good interview but guest has bad audio
Thank you for posting this important video. We must protect free speech in this time.
3340steve So, people can say hateful things but other people shouldn‘t be allowed to react to it? Whose free speech do you want to protect? Everyone‘s, I hope...
@@annaturba that's not what I said...i believe all people should be able to speak freely and that we as a society should engage in meaningful communication, not to encourage hate speech.
Amy Cooper got the dog back.
And she will get another job, if she has not already.
As a brown man ... thanks for this open letter ..... we want all to behave as fellow kind human beings.... but theres nothing more horrible than feeling imprisoned in your own mind by less speech or expression from fear of punishment. Its the long slow death of a soul.
Excellent clip. Many salient view points. Thank you.
What's gone too far is whyte people naming things as if they're new when black people do it.
Cancel culture is just another form of political oppression, such as arises in fascism, communism, dictatorship, or any other system that sets itself up to say that there is only one acceptable point of view, one official meaning, one right rule for humans. There is really not much difference in the long term between oppression that begins within a political system and one that begins in a society, as political systems do not last forever without sufficient social acceptance (or against sufficient resistance). Both the right and left in this nation have been cancelling each other, effectively, for some time now, and we are seeing calls from both sides for asserting power in order to gain control enough to demand compliance from everyone. It's a process, growing rather fast today, and "cancel culture" is simply the left-wing version. And yes, of course it denies being what it is. So does the other side. What's new in that?
beautiful!
Why does he seem to be against JK Rowling??
Damn wat happen to Keegan Michael Key!?!
This is what brought about Fox news I understand his point but he should think about what evil people will do with his form of generosity
Exactly!
Such a wonderful discussion! Much needed. Thank you!
I think people should censor themselves before they push the button send! All to often people are voicing an opinion without thinking twice. Educate yourself before you decide to voice an opinion or ask questions first. And with regards to the Amy case , I have no sympathy for girls like her who for 100s of years have gotten away with murder. Yes murder! Many black men have had the police called on them for no reason and have been arrested and shot for no reason because some white chic felt it was ok to point the finger at the nearest black man. We can no longer have sympathy for white supremacy.
This guy is comparing what Amy Cooper went through to what black people go through 😂. We won't become a world of free if we don't call out evil.
“Evil”? A bit of an overreaction and exaggeration don’t you think?
Jezus, young people nowadays are so fucked up. In the olden days, when people lived in little villages and everyone knew everything about everyone, anyone who breached the norms of that village would be ostacized by the villagers, until he or she crept back on their knees asking for forgiveness, and if they didn't, they would become outsiders.
Can't we get beyond that, here in 2020, when we should all have more savvy and understanding of each other? Some people are truly assholes, and will always be assholes. So can't you just avoid those assholes and help anyone who they hurt, without tweeting about it to the whole fucking world? And give up racism and sexism - it's stupid and pointless. Just try to be a good person, and grow a thicker skin. People say and do stupid things all the fucking time, especially young people and right wing idiots. Cut them some slack, and if they are still assholes just avoid them whenever possible. You don't have to broadcast someone's stupidity to the whole fucking world. Just deal with it. There will always be disgusting jerks in this world, so just fucking deal with it.
Gloria Steinem endorsement is like Hilary Clintons 0
Amy Cooper to me seemed honestly afraid. Why was she afraid?
I think this started with Rosanne , Metoo, etc. In highschool, a guy???? He'll lose his livelihood 40 yrs later?
As a white liberal, I fully agree with what was said. I also believe cancel culture today would not be as sharp if the political right had not jumped into a cess pool of racism and stupidity.
I never wrote racism or stupidity only exists on the right, it’s everywhere. But the aberration occupying the WH and his party are embracing it as his only path to reelection.
Writing letters is racist.
Great interview, thank you
getting a job is part of the privilege that another might have lost exactly because of their skin colour. getting downgraded financially might be a more effective way of bringing some accountability. losing one's public persona... absolutely.
And you have the right to decide that? No you dont
@@JaneA544 Moitreyee Mitra has the right to have an opinion, as does anyone else.
Say what you want about his views - he's handsome AF :X
Wow Defund PBS... Problem facts versus narrative.... Facts versus Content... Amy Cooper, PLEASE WATCH ON RUclips
“Let’s Give The “Karen” Central Park Dog Video Some Context” By Antony Brian Leonard
How egotistical and arrogant journalism has become. SAD
Christian cried wolf. If he didn't want Amy to get in trouble, he should've kept his mouth shut. She tried to make him next George Floyd!
Shawna Weesner Your so-called hero who killed George is as crooked as they come. He & his wife cheated in their taxes. Trump & family cheated in his taxes. Wall Street billionaires are not outstanding citizens.. So, please stop...
At 6:31: "enough of a quantitative change becomes a qualitative difference."
people who do and say bad things should be fined and should be suspended for a year, and free speech should be curtailed- don't say anything bad about religion unless and until it harms our society.
Here
Or asked another way, has the healthier eating culture gone too far?...hmmmm
Cancel Amanpour!!
You are being canceled for being HOSTILE to certain groups of people, gay, colored, religious groups, YOU do not HAVE the FREEDOM to be HOSTILE to others. We don't cancel you for wanting less/more tax on the rich or more government vs less government, we want you CANCELED when you harm others. Like R.K. Rowlings did.
Long version: When you are accustomed to supremacy, equality feels like oppression.
Short version: OK, boomer.
Saying "I wouldn't allow someone to sign that is a bigot" makes you a bigot.
Yea I TOTALLY disagree with him. He’s definitely not for his people. All folk ain’t kinfolk.. dude is straight wack. It’s not extreme when you lose your job because your a racist. Gtfoh..