The Watch: First impressions - You might not want to watch
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
- The Watch is a new BBC America production that sources its material from beloved Sir Terry Pratchett. It goes out of its way to veer so far from the source material that is most certainly will alienate fans of the books and might confuse new viewers because it has so many winks to the source content.
I believe they should re-name the series as The Don't Watch
Or, What the heck am I watching, let's read the book and use our imagination to fill it out. Exactly as Sir Terry intended.
If you want movies/TV shows without having to read, watch harry potter. Its for children anyway. Discworld isn't for children, never was, never will be. He does children's stuff but its not Discworld as I know/imagine it.
!!!!nice one
it suffers the two problems as it wouldn't work as a standalone as they never spend enough time with the characters to let you know who they are, it moves at break neck speed from scene to disjointed scene. and it doesn't work as pratchett because...well it aint pratchett.
What a mess and begs the question...Who is this for...i didnt realise it was from the guy that did the war of the worlds mini series...that series was odd, left a weird taste in my mouth, while i loved the setting and the quality of the screenwork the way the story was presented and the change of the characters left me wondering Why? and what happened here??
The sad part about this rendition of pratchetts watch is that in that series he encompasses all sorts of things about patriarchy, feminism, gender roles in society and many of the things the 'woke crowd' are looking for.
Cheery's story for example is all about challenging gender expectations in society and eventually leads to a womens lib movent and progressivism throughout dwarf society (at least in ankh morpork) yet in the watch that whole story arc is reduced to:
ANGUA: Cheery’s our forensic officer. Nothing she doesn’t know about potions and powders.
CARROT: She?
ANGUA: She.
CHERRY: Me.
Utterly destroying the whole point of the character and the ultimate revelation of the facts, this is thrown out so they could have a non binary actor in makeup and a flouncy shirt but not give it any substance to make you think why this is a positive thing...just accept it and move on....surely the idea is to challenge the intellect not to shock you into obedience.
anguas story aswell is there to cover polymorphism and ultimately body confidence but is distilled into detritus saying 'not monster' and that's it.
This retelling has lost all the complexity that makes these characters great and taken away all the parts of the story that actually make you THINK and challenge your perceptions and morality.
Having dibbler as a wheelchair bound slab dealer aswell was an incredibly poor choice...Dibbler was an embodiment of the struggle to rise in society and while his merchandise was notoriously questionable he was never a 'criminal' never into gangs or drugs....depending on how you define his sausages.
It seems that SLAB is also now a drug for all not just something that does horrible things to trolls which doesn't make alot of sense
Carrot, has lost any sense of presence, his charisma was enough to talk a bar fight in the drum into stagnation without throwing a punch. now he is just someone keen on stopping crime, he has no charisma to pass across, he is bland and gets into fights. People dont stand there in awe questioning themselves as to why they stopped murdering each other to listen to this guy?!?!
a final thing i find hard to understand is that Lady sibyl is now batman and vimes is her robin?!?!? the character of vimes is no longer an intelligent morally strong man that has been beaten down but steadfastly continuing while holding down a successful drinking habit into a bungling buffoon that is constantly legless and as much of a thug as the people on the streets that he is protecting. Vimes was always the symbol of whats right, even when it wasn't the time to be right
This is a superb take on what i was also trying to say! You comments: 'ANGUA: Cheery’s our forensic officer. Nothing she doesn’t know about potions and powders.
CARROT: She?
ANGUA: She.
CHERRY: Me.'
Are PERFECT mate. I thank you!
havent red the book,how is cherry different in the books?
@@raymondmagtanong like apples and oranges, i would suggest reading the books, cheery story starts in the book feet of clay...its a good one
@@raymondmagtanong I mean kind of the same as in the show, but it took time and progress for her to reach the point she is at in the show and it doesn't really give that in the show. Plus, in the show she's called a dwarf, but she's normal height. When we're clearly shown Carrot's adoptive parents to be dwarfish height.
I agree...the breakneck pace and the whiplash editing doesn't make any space for emotional connection or character development. I'm not asking for a linger pause on a traffic light ala David Lynch...but please give me a little space to get to feel tension or pathos. I miss the real Sam Vimes, Patrician and all the rest. I think the show is fine for people who don't love the books.
They've ruined Angua. She's not supposed to be afraid of becoming a wolf! And she can do it whenever she likes, not only at full moon as they have her doing.
Absolutely. She is supposed to be a proud character, and the turned her into someone who is ashamed of who they are!
Thanks mate. Like yourself I'm a huge Terry Pratchett fan, and the trailers alone had left me scratching my head in slack-jawed bafflement. There's no resemblance. Thanks to your review I won't be wasting my time watching it.
If it didn't have pratchetts name to it, the series would get an extremely low rotten tomatoes rating I'd bet as It is absolutly awful and Somehow they've made a cyberpunk gothic feel added to a london Cape town drama series full of absolutly poo negative drama, shit character build ups and a seriously disappointing story to add aswell as real time transgender funny pokes about identifying as whatever. Without adding much detail to it, the first episode is about a stolen book and the watchers must investigate 🤦♂️🤦♂️ it seems pratchett enough but the way it's done is horrifying - it's like someones work that's never read, cared or loved the series but is now bloody directing it!!
See, for me it's a shame you feel this way. I love the Pratchett books and have listened to all of them multiple times on audible. "The watch" is inspired by Pratchett, I dont think this was ever supposed to be faithful to the books.
I would say you can only enjoy this show if you never read a Pratchett book.
What I was trying to get across! If you've read a Pratchett book... I am not so sure.
@@NicholasReay I watched it, and there are parts where i can sort of blend out it's supposed to be Ankh-Morpork and the watch, but then a name comes up, or a character, and i'm like "WTF??!"
I had to pause it numerous times and write long rants to a friend on fb XD
And i was just as shocked as you when they killed Detritus with some regular crossbow bolts!
Or when Cheery said "Dwarfs come in all sorts and shapes" NO THEY DON'T! That's the whole point of cheeries character arc!
I dunno, I've read them and I'm enjoying the show just fine. It's not hard to think of it as a derivative work. It leaves out a lot, but it's not telling a specific Discworld story. It's not trying in the least to recreate one of the books, it is it's own story.
@@NecrochildK ...and its own characters, and its own sets. In ther worlds, it has zero to do with the novels. Which would be fine, had they just named it and the characters differently.
@@Dave1507 No, same characters, just at different points in their own backstory than in the books. And for the most part the city still seems very like Ankh-Morpork, just some areas seem a little too modern, like the Mended Drum for example. I mean the books themselves, as it got more into the stories of the Watch, the world seemed to be advancing closer to the modern age as it was, but kind of got into the age of steam at latest.
Adaptations making changes is fine. That's why it's an adaptation, you adapt it to a new medium with different strengths and challenges. But this changed things either for no reason, or specifically to take meanspirited jabs at Pratchett's writing. It's like someone read the back cover of a few Discworld books, snorted pretentiously, and then decided they were going to put down people who enjoyed Discworld. The fact they actually shit on Vimes' boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness, is just unforgivable. Someone chose to write it that way.
Absolutely!
Im willing to bet that the majority of folks who watch this won't be familiar with the original books. Gotta say, the Night watch is one of my favourite disc world books and this looks nothing like how I see it... I prefer my version.
Absolutely! I was on a Pratchett/Adams panel at a CON a few years ago, and everyone unilaterally said City Watch was their favorite series, Vimes their favorite character, and Night Watch the best book. Sight unseen, I prefer your version.
Yeah, if this wasn't being marketed as a Discworld series, and they just completely rebranded it, I might be somewhat interested. As is, I have no desire to see it. My only hope is that this will get more people to read the books.
Very good point, and one I share too. I hope this will kindle some desire to read the superb books. I know it has made me want to again! (Not that there was ever much of a push to make me want to anyway!)
@@NicholasReay Did it get better?
It's free on sky, dont rush to buy it though. The series may have pratchetts name tonight but it isnt pratchett enough.
This was heartbreaking. One of my favourite Discworld groups totally destroyed.
How many episodes did you last?
@@NicholasReay i watched around 10 minutes of three episodes, to give it a chance.
2 episodes in and I'm like..Where the fk is NOBBY!!?
I know, right!? They left him out!
I thoroughly enjoyed the series and now I will be reading the books. Dr. Cruces' stellar karaoke performance of paranoid is reason enough to watch it lol
You are in for a TREAT my man. The books will change the way you look at the world, they did for me :)
You don't become a skinny little man when you push minecarts up and out of a mountain every day of your life.
I watched the first two episodes in mounting horror. I've been reading Pratchett since the Colour of Magic came out and my local book shop owner told me I'd love this as he knew I was a scifi and fantasy reader and got hooked, so like yourself I was intensely disappointed especially after Sky got it right with Going Postal. After I had watched it my first thought was if you changed the name of the characters you'd be hard-pressed to pick up the tidbits of real Pratchett that were buried in the script because they had ripped out the whimsical humour and clever gags that litter the watch books. I have a feeling that like the current version of Dr Who this will go down with the fans like a lead ballon, and although I think non-fans might enjoy it, to succeed it needs the Pratchett fandom to get behind it and I think most of us won't. 3.5/10 from a lenient judge is how I scored it.
The fact that they were able to kill a rock troll with normal ARROWS had me screaming at the screen. How the hell could they kill him with arrows? He's made of rock ffs!
@@NicholasReay I had given up hope of something worthy of the name Pratchett after the first episode, and don't get me started on the third. One of the biggest travesties is how they've turned Carcer, from a cheerful chappy psychopath into a snivelling whiner.
He's the classic, overly done English villain, all he needs is a moustache to twirl!
@@NicholasReay I wondered that myself. I thought, well maybe its just his skin but underneath is flesh, then I though, they were probably tired of doing the guy in the suit and wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible.
The review is spot on. Oh btw, Charles Dance would have been the perfect Lord Vetinari.
OMG, you are SPOT on! If I could give you a high five I would! He would be perfect! That stare of his!
The thing is he already showed he could do a spot on vetanari in going postal. They literally had no reason to not try and get him
@@ElvenPrince well... They wanted him to be a her.... Which I have no clue why.
Charles dance did a good job as Vetinari.
But Jeremy Irons was way better.
Thanks - looks like you just saved me a few hours. I guess I’ll just read the books again and hope someone has another go one day.
any excuse to read the books is a good excuse!
The Watch were my favourite part of the Discworld series, Sir Terry Pratchett my favourite author. The sound of this series terrifies me. I think I will hate it and do not want to tarnish the way I picture the characters. Anyone a massive fan and like it?
I haven't seen too many massive fans who enjoyed this. I mean it's sitting on like 50% or something on RT, and that's just for the actual production and story telling of the show, which is not well done. Might want to skip it least you scream at the screen ;)
I enjoyed the City watch books immensely. I am probably not going to watch this series, the trailers were enough to raise my hackles. It reeks of disrespect to the author and the material.
This is kindda what I am feeling too. I am just about to finish a reread of Guards Guards! and then I'll watch this... I don't have much hope through, not from what I've heard from friends. Also, the show runner congratulated a bunch of people after filming, failing to mention Terry... Which to me is pretty damn inexcusable.
@@NicholasReay Don't do that to yourself! Times are tough enough.
im digging it...& i had no idea of the source material.
I think that is WHY you are :)
@@NicholasReay
ur probly correct
My library finally got the dvd and after 2 minutes of watching, I worried it had the wrong disk.
So, this is inspired by the books, or by reading the wiki of the books, then making the movie they wanted to make anyway, just using a loose understanding of the Disk as the setting? Okay, I'll change my expectations and enjoy this as a comedy.
Am I assuming right that the redhaired girl with two axes is actualy Carrot ? :D
Honestly I have the desire to see it myself just to see if it is as bad as I think it is. I never thought that any movie or tv adaptation will be able to reflect inner dialogues or the thinking of all those beloved characters. Or that such an adaptation could take up any of the hints and winks TP gives in his texts or compare to the fun TP's style of writing gives to the reader. For that I will probably always be disappointed. And there will be always a thing missing that a reader of all his books will expect and know: A story acts almost as a living thing in the disc world realm - it will try to satisfy what ppl expect of it, but then there happen to be not so pleasant things - not so pleasant to the story and not so pleasant for the eye (like a Nobby), while there is the constant work of the author to not give the story it's way and to end the story or the character's decision and developments as not obvious, somehow unexpected and strikingly simple. How should a movie that has only dialogues and pictures, funny faces' mimics and weird gestures be able to portrait a Vimes, who is doing the tradition of the watch of hiding in some dark cornor in the street smoking a cigarette at 3 am - trying to get not in the way of crime. How to portrait this VERY REASONABLE man seemingly broken by being powerless but who is still a caring watchman at the bottom of his heart - caring for justice and ppl. A man thinking reasonable that caring for ppl and getting in the way of crime might involve being rather sooner then later not able to care for ppl and justice because mentioned crime nailed your head to your shoes. How to portrait a city where ppl won't miss a chance to see something for their amusement ( a detritus aiming at them with a siege bow or something else very VERY interesting.) Sry for my English probably not reflecting to well what I am trying to say: Get ppl to read the books because the movies are lacking the written language of TP. Movies/Series can not transport the years of work TP did with so much humour and woven-in humanism reflecting on what is going on in our society. I guess you need to be a huge fan to do an tv or movie adaption the proper way.
I read Terry's book every year but i think may be the watch will be 1 to 2 series
It's OK. If I had never read any of Sir Terry's books, I could probably be a fan. But having read all of them, something is always jumping out and grating against your every other moment.
I'm also a huge fan of the book and I had similar initial reactions after seeing episode 1, but at episode 6 I'm now enjoying it a lot and I look forward to seeing how the series(season 1) ends. That being said, I really hope they tie it off and don't try to make a second series(season 2).
Glad you hear you are enjoying it! I will watch it when it ends. I do worry about the actual structure of the show. There were already huge continuity issues in ep 2, and a friend says ep 4 has them all over the place (in particular where Vimes has prison keys that assassins are after, then suddenly they have them).
I'm mixed about this. I've never read the Discworld books, so I don't have the rage of those fans. I enjoyed the first 2 episodes. But as someone who watched Dr Who for 45 years I can understand your disappointment. With the lack of much decent content on TV I'll watch it and see how it goes. But as a long time Dr Who fan I'm sorry for the fans.
Yeah, I will continue to watch this too (pun intended). I just feel that if you are going to make a show like this, using the DNA from another set of books, and change it so much, why not create something new instead?
Never read the books and i loved the show. very monty pythonesque. Hoping there will be a season 2.
Glad to hear you did! Not sure there will be a season 2 as it wasn't particularly well received.
I'm loving the series. I loved the books. Perhaps it's been long enough since I read them that the differences don't bother me that much. Like anything that's "based on" something else is best watched as its own, separate thing.
Glad you are loving it! I need to sit down and watch the entire thing now. I am going to review it based on the show as its own thing, and as a Diskworld show. I have just heard so many bad things about the actual structure and characters I am worried!
Have not read the books. Saw a bit of "Hogfather" presentation and felt like there was nothing to grasp so I gave up on it. Watching this was a lot better presentation for first timers. I like it.
I gave up when carrot said he was dropped down a mine shaft.
Glad you are enjoying it! Give the books a try, start with the first. I promise it will change your life!
That was BAD. It ruins the character's backstory too. Makes it cheap.
@@NicholasReay Nooo! Don't start with Colour of Magic! It's nothing like the rest of the books and almost put me off reading any more of them!
Tragedy or travesty? A little bit of both. I was so excited when I
learned the City Watch sub-series was being adapted because the movies
like Going Postal that have been done have been pretty good. And, heck,
for a TV series, you don't have to edit the story because you have to
get a whole novel into 2 hours. I even held out hope when I learned of
the changes to the characters. I could probably deal with Angua training
Carrot rather than the reverse. And we tried, we really tried, to get
through the first episode. My big issue, as I have with parts of Peter
Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies, is that the BBC (and Jackson) had
the resources TO DO IT RIGHT! The City Watch sub-series is the best
sub-series, and Vimes is Pratchett's best character, although part of
that is the way he's supported by the Watch members and, of course,
Sybil. If they were going to depart for new vistas, why couldn't they
have trashed maybe the Witches, Tiffany Aching, or Rincewind? In a
series that should have brought in Pratchett's huge fan base, why did
they go so far afield? Next time, just give me the money and let me
write the scripts. I will do a better job. (You've never heard of me,
right? That's my point.)
hahaha so damn true!
I'm interested in what parts you felt Jackson's LOTR fell short? 🤔
Too me at least he struck a great balance between loyalty to the text and adapting it to the screen. Even some of the more egregious changes like the elves coming to helms deep at least didn't feel at odds with the world
@@wraithship I thought his world-building was brilliant, and the pacing in FotR was so good I found most of his deletions OK. Then came TTT. He'd already started to tell Aragorn's story very differently and now totally ran away with his and Arwen's story. I just wondered if Liv Tyler's contract said she had to be given a certain number of lines per movie. Then he completely destroyed Faramir and, to some extent, Theoden. I know PJ said he'd be contracted to deliver three PG-13 movies, so I understand the action sequences but all along feared that people new to Tolkien would go into the books thinking they were more of a Dragonlance Chronicles-type adventure and put them down in disgust when they're a masterpiece. I admit his choices in TTT made more sense when you saw them in the context of the deleted footage---most of the deleted scenes, I noticed, included Tolkien's actual dialogue, so I felt cutting JRRT's words was swapping gold for tripe. I would have traded lots of snippets of the battle scenes for just a small nod to the Scouring of the Shire, which for me is something that sets the book apart from other great fantasies. I don't disagree with what you're saying about how he balanced action and world exploration/plot. I just wish I'd had a shot at writing the script! Oh, well, there's always Netflix's reboot of Narnia...
@@minissa2009 ah yeah, I always watch the extended edition and yeah the theatrical edition does fall much shorter. Especially around what they did to Saruman which I always forget thanks to the slightly better treatment in EE.
I see what you mean about the Liv Tyler parts.
I think you might be being a bit hyperbolic with the Faramir comment haha. He's still noble and wise, just not so infallible, but he still does the right thing in the end. I feel if he was more like in the book and able to just resist the ring it would devalue the threat of the ring the film had built up and the important (for the film) exceptionalism of Aragon. Book Faramir's strength also comes from knowing his own weakness which perhaps wouldn't translate well to film.
If we're talking about character assassinations though.... What they did to my poor boy Gimli 😭
@@wraithship They made him into Treebeard? I remember learning that John Rhys-Davies reacted badly to the glue for his prosthetics and could only film something like every 4th day. But because it's Rhys-Davies, of the 10 or so lines Gimli did get, you remember *all* of them!
I was very disappointed... then I realized that it wasn’t even claiming to be an adaptation. “Based on characters created by”. I don’t know how you can get away with that when you are also taking most of your plots right out of the book...(except backwards, upside down, sideways). What a waste of potential!
That is why I am so confused. If they want to pretend to be something totally different, then why are they lifting content?
Honestly if you haven't read the books and you enjoyed this show I feel sorry for you. This may be the most shameless bastardisation of source material ever made. Diverse and complex characters so beautifully written just ripped off and rewritten for absolutely no reason other than to look like living buzzwords.
Dibbler wouldn't even try punt this drivel.
I'd be cutting my own throat if I disagreed with you!
When I first saw the teaser, I was confused, till I realized it was The Night Watch. Several things are different from what I remember in the books like Lady Sybil had nothing to do with The Watch except being married to Captain Vimes.
Wasn't Cherry in the book described as 6 foot dwarf. He identifies as a dwarf and his adoptive dwarven parents think of him as a dwarf. All of Dwarven Society thinks of him as a Dwarf.
I think you mean Carrot? He's human, but was raised by dwarves. He is literally sent to Ankha in the books because his parents (adopted, they are genetically dwarves) want him to spend time with his own kind (as in, humans). He's also 6'5 and is one of the most muscular characters in the books, hence why he's called carrot, his shoulders are that wide haha!
@@NicholasReay Yes, I thought about the characters and realized the mistake, but didn't go back and correct it.
This youtuber is twitching more than Sam Vines when he talks about Sam Vines twitching :D The series is awesome! At least it's one of my favorites this year.
LOL, yeah, I am twitching because of my reaction to it! I am glad you are enjoying it though :)
Alan Ritchson would have been an impressive Carrot.
Thank you for your review I look forward to your review of the whole season.
I will defo have one :)
Yes it was disappointing, too many chances were dreadful.
I'm a fan of Terry Pratchet and of Disc world, read most of the Disc world books and was horrified when I starting watching this! They got so much wrong! Carrot looks nothing like he should, Anqua is....it's just all wrong. They've mutilated the story, yes the names are correct but everything else is just...you get the picture. Now if you'll excuse me I've got to have a drink at the Mended Drum.
I'm going to attempt to watch all of it when it's finished. But a mate of mine who is watching them weekly says it gets worse and worse. Forget about the actual Diskworld characters. The continuity is apparently just awful. For eg, did you notice Vimes refer to the Patrician as HE in episode 2!?
In the pilot... I had no idea that the woman in the wheelchair Vimes was bribing was supposed to be C.M.O.T. Dibbler until the goblins mentioned the last name when they showed up to collect the slag...
Ive known the Disc World setting for more than 30+ years, but never once have I read the books, ive seen all the TV mini series Adaptions (I enjoyed the Hog Father the most out of those), I know a decent amount of the surface level of the setting and world (but dont make me test that lol), ive played the old PC game way back when and see the huge inspiration Pratchetts works have had on Fantasy and the world in general over the decades (I used to play and still love the D&D Planescape campaign setting which takes a big chunk of inspiration from the city of Anhk Morpork with the city of Sigil and its Factions).
But I honestly cant but also can, for the life of me understand why the books fans tore this adaption to pieces so vehemently, to me I rather enjoyed it and thought it was pretty decent, the odd issues aside I hope it gets a second season. Sure I could and did sit there going, im sure that aint right, wait isnt that supposed to be? etc etc with alot of things but as it went on I simple said to my self... its inspired by, not based on The Watch, and to be honest I think in that light they made a decent go of it.
I think the fans might be just a little to precious over this... I understand how they can be, but just dont think its justified.
You lost me at "never once have I read the books...."
Good on you for having no trouble swallowing whatever you're served regardless of quality.
It is indeed possible to take a classic piece of literature and re-imagine it and put it in a new context, take the many different versions of Sherlock Holmes for instance, but you need to have a clear idea for where you want to take it. This show lacked any clear direction and the writers apparently figured that if they just threw everything in, at least some things would work. But they didn't.
In the end the show commits the cardinal sin of just being boring.
@@nacmegfeegle2310same, you really need to have read the books to really understand how much they massacred the source material, I’ve read every diskworld book multiple times and the show made me feel genuinely sad
I've watched the first three episodes, and frankly it's like watching a dumpster fire. The Watch books are some of my favorite Discworld stories, so seeing the show's treatment of these characters that I hold in high regard makes me sick with anger. Not only did they make Death look like a blue eyed Jawa, but they got Vimes' walk all wrong. Sam Vimes does NOT walk on the outsides of his feet - there's no way he could walk that way at a slow steady pace and feel the cobblestones of Ankh-Morpork beneath his feet. I'll agree about the sets - they're very good; but if I wanted to just see footage of Cape Town, I'd make that a search parameter and watch some RUclips footage unless there's a documentary available through another source. That being said, I'll probably watch the rest of it; we'll see how I feel about it next Sunday night.
I haven't made it to ep 3 yet, after watching a stone troll die from wooden arrows I was close to tearing my eyes out. Also, did you notice in ep 2, Vimes refers to the Patrician as HE, not her, HE. I assume it was because they decided later to change the gender. Which is worth a video in itself.
@@NicholasReay If you look closely, you will see that posters in the background scenery of Lord Vetinari portray him as a bearded man, as described in the books. I think that Vimes constantly refers to Vetinari and he and Sir, even to his/her face and nobody corrects him is an acknowledgement to the fans that something is a little off with the portrayal on screen. I think it's hilarious.
Been reading Sir Pratchett for well over 35 years, was hooked by The Color Of Magic and been enjoying the ride ever since.. this adaptation has been shocking, to say the least. But other than the overly twitchy Vimes, I have found the show entertaining if not faithful Sir Pratchett's original writing No Nobby, No Fred Colon..FOR SHAME!
Working class characters are problematic.
I've been meaning to look up some reviews, and yours sounds like a fairly objective take. I'm so disappointed to hear what this show has become. I'd been looking forward to it for years, back when it was still being developed by Narrativia. I'm sad to hear about the weird choices they made, and I'm sad to hear how this show doesn't really work for people who aren't familiar with Pratchett, and it doesn't really work for people who are. You articulated that feeling very well (although you could maybe talked a little more calmly).
I was a little afraid to just get videos of people raging that it's "too woke". But I saw you also liked The Dragon Prince, which is definitely the type of show that triggers those people, so I figured, "let's give him a shot". Another thing to be sad about, that nowadays a lot of reviews are just people raging about "wokeness" while ignoring the actual problems with something. But at any rate, I wished Narrativia could have produced this show, which did not happen in the end. The show would have been faithful, had that been the case.
Anyway, have a thumbs-up for the algorithm from me. Your presentation could be better, maybe talk a little more calmly, but you know how to find and point out the problems and how to articulate it, and your channel deserves to grow for that reason.
Thanks for the comment. I was attempting to not rage hence the not speaking calmly! I was worried about this show the moment Rhianna Pratchett removed herself from it and said it had no DNA (which I don't think is at all true) from her father's books.
I liked it....never read the books. I thought the twitching was him coming off whiskey
Guess I'm part of the few who have read the books and so far have liked it despite some of the changes.
Hey if you are enjoying it, that's great! I am going into a binge this coming weekend and I am not sure I will come out with as positive an outlook ;)
It can't be worse than the Netflix adaptation of Persuasion, that's all I'll say. Why do studios want to adapt things fans love for many reasons, then take out all the reasons? I assume because of money but it's still hard to follow the logic. Just write your own story if you despise your source material that much
Did you ate blueberry before the shot? Just curious.
No. It's medicine. And by medicine, I mean red wine. I needed it after watching this crap!
@@NicholasReay well, i understand that, i dropped "The Watch" after second episode. This show felt disjointed and as if the show runners didn't knew what they are doing.
the actors are doing the best with what they have, this is down to the script writers and show runner i made it through two episodes before walking away
I feel sorry for them too. I have also only watched 2, will watch the rest in one sitting with a bottle of red and tissues.
Considering how good and how true to the book "Going Postal" was, this is worse than a disappointment.
Preach it brother.
Well Said
Wait! What? They let the guy who made a complete (but politically correct) mess of The War of the Worlds direct this?!?
Well, that explains a lot :-/
That blew me away too. That was an abomination!
@@NicholasReay The 2019 "adaptation" of The War of the Worlds is not completely useless. It can always be used as a bad example.
Review Troll bridge!
I see you are a person of great taste! And that is a damn fine idea. I am going to this weekend. I'll quote you too as the source of inspiration! Thanks :)
@@NicholasReay Don't forget the song during aftertext/credits...
Horrible mess. I think the BBC is on a mission to push away any SF/fantasy fans over 30.
The saddest thing though it s one of the comments below mine defending this series by writing: « who reads books anymore ? »
Lol, yeah. I fear that many are missing out big time!
I watched one episode now, and the only thing I truly regret is that I'll never get that time of my life back. I cannot truly believe someone who apparently only read the wiki page about the Discworld Watch got to make an entire series about it.
Hahaha! That made me laugh :)
I'm one of those fans myself... I've only seen clips and extracts from the show but *immediately* knew that I wouldn't be able to enjoy it because of how the characters and setting have been put through the wringer.
I do, however, have ONE counter-criticism against you (and I hope it's a constuctive one): your argument with Cheery doesn't stand up in my mind, at least not the way you put it. The Discworld DOES allow for tall Dwarfs! Carrot himself is the given example, "technically a Dwarf but six feet tall", so there are people who are biologically human but raised in the Dwarven culture. I still have a pretty major problem with Cheery as portrayed though, since her whole deal is about the challenging of established gender roles (or lack thereof, in the case of Dwarfs) so her entire underlying character conflict appears to have been flipped on its head... and if they DID want a "actually I'm a dwarf" thread going through the series then once again Carrot is right there.
Seriously, they should have cast a guy tall enough to have to stoop to get through low doors, and then probably direct him crouch half the time out of sheer habit. Lance-Constable Ironfoundersson is a *big strapping boy* by human standards, it's a wonder he managed to get around the family mine at all.
I guess this turned out to be more of a discussion than a criticism, but I'll leave it unedited to show my train of thought. What little I've seen of "The Watch" just leaves me angrily scratching my head and wondering what in all collective Hells they thought they were doing.
I was going more for the genetic side of things. Carrot's own adopted parents say he is not a dwarf (I am currently rereading Guard Guards, bought the special edition book with new art by Kidby, very cool). Carrot identifies as one, but there are no 'tall' dwarfs outside of the 'I identify as one'. And I always appreciate criticism and appreciate your discussion!
@@NicholasReay Ah, see I was confusing your position there, thought you meant that Cheery has been presented as a "Human Dwarf" as well.
If that's the case, does the show even offer an excuse for why she's a solid five feet if she's an inch?
It makes no sense why they even made this a disc world based series. The book series has decades of world and character building to draw from. But its like they just went to the online discworld wiki and just used introduction paragraphs for everything as source. So they squander the source material for a very very surface level adaptation. Who is it for? Pratchet fans will hate it, and new people won't understand any of the references. What a waste of time and money.
agreed!
I watched about 10 mins and could not continue. One good thing though; It PROVES that there is no afterlife. No ghosts. If there was Sir Pterry would have gone all poltergeist and stopped it from ever being made O_o
HAHAHA! I loved this comment!
😂
I'm in a weird spot that the show is so bad at being "the watch" that all the changes stopped bothering me. I'd love to get a faithful adaptation one day but for now I'm enjoying this new IP in this unique cyberpunk fantasy with unique original characters(because they are certainly not the ones pratchett wrote).
Yeah, that's what I was hoping for. It does irk me that they do really stupid stuff... Like killing a ROCK troll with... Arrows...
Alice Band only looks about twelve or thirteen and dresses to match. In the books she is late twenties and an expy/parody of Lara Croft - clearly late twenties/early thirties. Having a Miss Alice Band - schoolteacher, remember? - looks like a second-form student at the AG School - doesn't work.
Everything about this show was a train wreck!
Never read the books, completely new to the knowledge of something like this existing
Binged the shit out of the show, watched it in one night. Love the concept and the acting, very much reminded me on The Doom patrol.
I first watched the reviews and just saw the fans of the books raging so I almost didn't watch the show, so I'm very very glad for your professional and non bias review. Gave me a reason to watch the show and it pulled me in into that awesome world. Honestly made me interested in how do the books look and I'm prlly gnna read them soon (start reading them)
All in all, thank you.
Most excellent my man. Glad you enjoyed the show. Now get reading those books! I can honestly say they made my life a happier place ;)
Holy crap this was bad. And I’m someone who scoffed at the random for foaming at the mouth prematurely. But I just saw it and I’m outraged, it actually made me angry. Godawful.
Did you manage to finish it? I still need to try...
This is how I felt about the Amazon "Boys" adaptation. I just took this as a silly show. I figured it was like Killjoys. SOm action with some humor. I wondered at times, which was from the original book and what was "modern sensibility aka woke" as you put it.
It’s great! It’s just not Discworld. Weird one. But I did find it entertaining.
glad you enjoyed it man! I just couldn't get past how it wasn't Diskworld, so why base it in that world!?
@@NicholasReay it is weird. I kept yelling at the screen “WHAT ARE YOU?!” I couldn’t blame a Disc fan for not liking it though.
Thank you for an honest and even review.
I love this show as someone who loves sci-fi but feels so-so about fantasy - so is (yes, shame) unfamiliar with the source material.
What I (shame in English i is already a capital) saw was Terry Gilliam style surrealism. A nice middle between fair Dr. Who and Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy with some Python added.
Sure, WOKE, but so surrealistic that it becomes a parody.
I am glad you are enjoying it bud! As I mentioned, I hope this will give you a reason to try out the books! I promise you, you will not be disappointed. It will change your life!
You need only watch the official trailer for this series to realize it is utter crap. There is no place in the multiverse where this show is good. The really weird part is that it could have been done well, even in a non-Discworld setting.
As you alluded to, this show delicately walks the fine line between being for those who know the Pratchett books, and those who don't. Thereby ensuring that BOTH sides detest it completely.
I found it unwatchable simply for that reason. I'm not one of those mouth-breathing neanderthals that object to every gender, race, or species-swap when adapting works. I thought the Katee Sackoff version of Starbuck on the remade Battlestar Galactica was a fantastic character and WORLDS better than the overused "cocky-scoundrel-pilot-with-a-heart-of-gold" trope from the original series. You want to change to make it better, then do it! But if you want to change something like that just because you want to change something like that, you are setting yourself up for failure.
This show looks like something that someone had written that couldn't stand own its own, and to recoup the losses, the BBC bought the rights to Pratchett's Discworld so they can wallpaper over the cracks with beloved characters in the vain hope of having rabid Pratchett fans swallow the shit they are shoveling and thinking they will thank them and beg for more.
The worst part is this will fail miserably, thus ruining any chance of seeing a more truthful adaptation anytime in the future.
I love terry . This show remend me of the dark tower movie adaptation
Yeah, that one didn't work for me either.
As a die hard Discworld fan myself, I am rather enjoying this series. I don't agree with all of their casting choices and genderbending of characters and it is easy to pick it apart for faults and mismatching between the screen and the page, however I appreciate the effort, easter eggs and Pratchett-esque humor that they have managed to put into it. I'll admit that my initial reaction to casting announcements and trailers was "Nopenopenopenopenope!", but it has grown on me. Give it a chance. It might not end up being so bad, after all.
I will definitely be watching (ha) the season and doing a review! Also, you can help me out here in ep2m, Vimes refers to the Patrician as a HE. Did you spot that too?
@@NicholasReay and all the posters around the city say "one man one vote" with a picture of a male patricion, like it's a secret that she's not a man?
Yup. Made a list of all the "creatives" involved in this pish so I can avoid them in the future
Frankly if I had written the books and saw someone do this to my world and stories I would be incredibly annoyed and probably pretty offended. If I'd done this to someone's world and stories and tried to pass it off as the same I'd be embarrassed and would find a new job.
No need to modernise or suit the snowflakes because the original story addressed every socio-economic issue we have better than this did and let's face it, the books fan base is more than big enough to make it worth it, so sod the people that a true adaptation isn't good enough for
the episodes keep geting better and funny. I like it
There are few stuff going on in my head right now, consider the show and what was delivered. I have many ... many ... many TP fans in my fb and only one is talking about the show. I literally forgot about the show (after I watch the trailer) and 5 days ago I read that single post about it and I was "yea ... I remember this was a thing". So I watch the first episode and honesty it was painful for sole reason I am Partchett fan and I read and re-read all his books. Its huge mistake to call this show based on Discworld series. In that regard is the damn worst book adaptation I can remember. That aside "inspire by Discworld" suit the show better. Or make it "alternative Discworld", this could do some justice to the show. Because its not a crime for tv show to be far away from source. Why people are not honest for such stuff? Why director can't stand up and say "listen folks, I am making my version, hope you will enjoy it". Its so logical and normal, you take the source, its book, you make tv series ... do the changes where you think its needed ... profit.
What we are watching is not Guards!Guards!, those are not Terry Pratchett characters. Its not Discworld, its something ... damn if I know what it is. Semi-original, semi-loose adaptation, mix of culture stuff, some old, some new. From my pov the show is scared to be what it can be. The director lack the ability to tell a story without relaying on someone else work, plain and simple. I think the biggest problem is that Pratchett is smart man, who write smart books. Its not easy to fit in his shoes (if you are not going for word to word adaptation, which is also plain stupid).
I am not 2nd ep and I turn off my brain just to see where this train will lead me. For those who write they liked the show ... I hope (for me) there is a reason for it. If its smart reason, even better.
You nailed it. That is the major issue I have with it. It's attempt to BE from Diskworld. Just BE something else, ffs! Why would you want to rip off characters, and then change them, and then also try and merge 2 books of his into 1, while making it different? You know what this series is to me? It's FAN FICTION gone wild.
@@NicholasReay at episode 4 I start to see cool stuff in the show. Not every scene is smart and interesting, but its not that bad either. Its just not Pratchett Watch. Its huge misunderstanding making this show like that, based on Pratchett ideas. It was going to be far superior (I start to believe) if was original idea, inspire - yes, but not "based on" Discworld series. Its really that simple, change the names of characters and add 2-3 episodes of world building and voila - brand new show, way way better than this mess with Pratchett lore.
I was annoyed when they destroyed Ghostbusters, alien and Predator, i was pissed when they destroyed star wars and indiana jones, but this is a sacrilege. I can not describe how full of anger i am. Even if this ...whateveritis happened three years ago
to be fair. Predator was destroyed when 'they' made the 2nd
@@NicholasReay yes IT was weird, but it did not destroy the franchise. 6/10
I actually enjoyed it very much, as a person who read a lot of the books. and my partner enjoyed it too, without reading any of the books.
I think its good entertainment' and as far as the adaptation goes - I feel they consistent with the "prattchet spirit" of taking the world and then bending it to tell the story they wanted too tell.
pratchett him self changed many characters traits in different books to suit the story he wanted to tell.
I am glad you enjoyed it! But I don't think I agree with Pratchett changing his character's traits just to tell a story. Each character well very carefully crafted and didn't just do things as a story or plot device. They acted like they would act, not how the story wanted them to (unless, of course, they were developing/learning from their experiences).
Tried to watch the first episode
For some reason, I lost conciousness 5 minutes in, and when I came to, I was lying in a pool of my own blood, tears, piss and feces.
Would not reccomend this show to anyone.
Quite a so-so expirience.
HAHAHA!
5:24 Warcraft the movie moment there
Tbf, female vetinari didn't bother me, at least in principle (though the execution wasn't great).
Vetinari is defined by his intelligence, cunning and deep understanding of human nature. There's nothing in his character that couldn't be applicable to a woman.
Oh, I agree. I just question why they made the swap, and why it looks like they made the decision into production too.
@@NicholasReay I think your reason of increasing representation is the likely answer 😝
Totally ruined show. How can show be good when it brokes his own rules in first ten minutes? Horrible storywriting, horrible characters representation, horrible props and decorations-horrible litreally everything. This show is a insult not just to all fans of Terry Pratchett books, but just to the peoples who wathing it.
Even on its own I thought it was horrible, not something I would ever enjoy watching. I disliked all of the characters except Detritus, and they killed him. I disliked the illogical plot and the unlikely relationships. I disliked the humor and the rudeness.
I think that dwarfs are problem for modern fantasy sieries. In "Witcher" they were played by "little persons" - imagine them stopping a charge of heavy cavalry, as was mentioned in original (on which games was based) books. In Polish low-budget version we had better dwarfs... And maybe better golden dragon, because he was a dragon, not a wivern. Making person small, but hard is making it more wider, more sturdy. It is like creating a figure 3:3 with common people 4x2. it is hard, need bigger budget and... skilled actors. Skilled actors with pretty faces are rariety and they are treasure.
Watching this show I realized that HBO made screenshots from their shows unable. I used them to promote my favourite shows but now... it is my browser bar, desktop bar and dialogue and scren is all black. Do they not that they made sh*t and won't allow anyone to show their opinion?
HBO America... That expains a lot. Big budget, but focused on LGBT reasons. F*cking source material... Gosh, I thought that I will eat a monitor when Angua openly said to Carrot that she is a werewolf. Great moment when awaken after first night with girl Carrot sees a wolf in his room and drags a sword... WASTED. And no, street smart-ass can't be named in Italian. It would be a national stereotype.
And streets of Ankh-Morpork looked cheap, like effect of edvertisement: "People with cosplay costumes needed urgently, we will not pay you, but you'll have "Pratchett" in dossieur". And no Ankh River... When you can show a dead body contour moved on inches by days...
And Cheerie who is just trans-man, or trans-woman but it makes her/him save in mines and in face of dragonbreath.
Sadly, if not located in Discworld and not being so "LGBT-focused" and creating characters with good universe just "inspired by Pratchett" it would be quite interesting show. But it is "based on characters made by Pratchett and is using them to show some story born in the minds of scenarist. It is high-budget fan-fiction and I even don't know if one fan of Discworld liked this something. Ok, Pratchett-like series wouldn't sell as well as serialisation of his books, but this is horrible mistake.
Death, The Death, who was an interesting character now is overused just because he was used. Corporal Nobbs is absent. Male dwarves in night Watch - absent, because racial conflicts in the group of heros would be very hard to bite. You know - everybody in modern society likes everybody.Hey, there is no Night Watch.
there is too litlle Discworld in this series for fans and it is too litlle for non-fans to be interesed in it. It is no-name-pulp with stamp [PRATCHETT] on top.
And HBO in Polish version TOTALLY f*cked the Vimes boot theory of socioeconomical inequality. They forgot to mention the boots, or shoes in the name. Bo widz nie czytał książek!!! A czytelnik jebał HBO.
For long time, I think I could took place of one of they translators and earn their money.
I really thought the one saving grace of the show was the casting of vimes and the acting done for him it really does capture the feeling of him in the book he is introduced in guards guards. But it lacks the character development thereafter very disappointed
I think he did a good job at the beginning yeah. But he doesn't evolve, and he is made out to be an utterly incompetent cop, which he isn't.
@@NicholasReay Well I must admit I'm only making this statement based on the 1st episode( the only one I've seen so far as i refuse to put money twords it) and Had I not re read guards guards to my girlfriend recently I would be inclined to agree that their depiction was poor, but it does a good job of depicting him in the first book before he really shacked up with lady sybil, he WAS a drunken mess, the actor really captured that, I think as veterans of the series our mental image of him kind of comes with all the character development Already complete and ironclad. And once I find a way to watch the rest of it without giving them my money I'll get to see firsthand whether or not they do give him any meaningful development or just jumble up the plot and the time frame to the point where it's impossible to do so and the baffoonish drunkard with a good heart is all we get, not the consummate baddass we have grown to expect from book two in the watch ark.
No fun dwarf was badly done lord veterinary very very bad ,😢,Angue good actress but too small the rest good .A dessert really! 😢
Why is lady sybil a 25 year old black chick? Very different in the books.
A bloody good question... And why is she harder than Vimes?
Wait, Vetinari's a woman? Why?! They wanted a strong female character? But this is Pratchett innit? The man only writes strong female characters! Didactylos said it best: "Things just happen, what the hell."
And the crazy thing is Vime's refers to the Patrician in ep 2 as 'he'...
I got the feeling who ever was directing had no respect for the source material. It felt sabotaged.
I first saw the actress who I thought was playing Cheery and I first thought "Wow, that is a pretty awesome looking Cheery Littlebottom! Maybe she'll grow a beard in the show.
Then I found out it was supposed to be Angua and the 6'2 person was supposed to be Cheery and I was like, wow they completely missed the look, the feel, and message of the original characters and material.
Agreed!
Bro they made dibler a girl, the archchanslor a girl, the made a musicans guild they had detritous die by a fuckin arrow, the werewolf girl can't control how she turns and has to lock herself away when it's only supposed to be in direct moonlight and she can stop it if she wants and they made her a dwarf outta everyone smh this whole thing was a shit show they beat the dragon with music 🤦♂️🤦♂️
And death wasn't bad but the costume was horrible he suppose to be bone not just an empty Hood
And... And... Let's not even get started on the Librarian! OOK?!
Cheers their Carrot
After watching Sandman Neil needs to hush!!!
Well Carrot was 6’2 and identified as a dwarf BUT that’s not the point. This adaptation of f**king awful!!!
Well, 6'5 but I get your point haha! The point I was making is that cherry is a genetically short dwarf in the books, and not just a dwarf because she identifies as one. And you are totally right, this adaptation is something horrific!
Just didn't capture the spirit of the books. Characterisation was really off.
Also the acting is terrible. It's a pain to watch. I remember the previous series and it was brilliant. Who are these people? From a high-school theatre?
Agreed, they are NOT good. Carrot... Damn!
Attention! Attention! Negative Vibes have been detected! The Displacement Spell has been Atitivated! The Displacement Spell has been Ativated!
*activated :P
STOP! Please STOP!
Terry would never, ever, ever have approved this drivel!
If you aren't going to retain any of the characters traits when moving from book to live (well adapted for TV) characters, don't call it what it isn't. Call it "The Watch", but leave my favourite author out of it! Calk it An Original or something mundane, please don't mix it up with what you derive it from. Sam Vines is MY personal favourite character, his growth in the Discworld Universe was a beautiful thing. Better than Rincewind. Though The Librarian is my Second Favourite, then Gaspode (The Wonder Dog). This will not attract many fans or even gain any fans to the books. I haven't seen any episodes as getting angry isn't worth my while. I'm just saddened by this garbage. They made Harry Potter to the Books (which bored me) without changing the characters much, so why change something so straightforward?
When Sir Terry died, I cried! I broke down and cried. Same with Ben Bova. I didn't cry at my parents funerals! I listen to the audio books (Tony Robinson for preference) all the time. I usually listen to The Watch Series as its a complete universe within the Discworld Universe. Its a beautiful mix and character growth you can really grasp.
I hope that when I die, I will go there or Middle Earth. Don't mind which.
you hit the nail on the head! If you are going change to much, call it something else!
Sam Vimes is also my favorite character, possibly in any fiction, rivaled only by Granny Weatherwax and maybe Moist von Lipwig.
I think when making a Discworld adaptation, priority number one should be getting the characters right. I can sit through subpar plots if they come with interesting characters. I can’t enjoy a story if they butcher characters I otherwise love.
@@MildWilliam Yes! The amount of growth put into every character from Gaspode to Detritus is beautiful. Lord Vetinari also comes complete. Terry only got to Steam. I want more! I have lived my life from 1987 too today with these books and characters in my imagination. I can fill in blanks using my own concept of Discworld. I even have deeds to a unit in Ankh Morpork. My wife collects Swamp Dragons and desires a Swamp Dragon for her shoulder. I've seen The Gonne. I know Mr Shine IS Diamond. I know it all and I've lived it through a medium that allows my mind to derive pleasure and solidity to these characters.
Damn, I'm going to gave to listen to the audio books again now. Thank you. I gave been meaning to gut have been sidetracked for a year and more.
Sorry , I like it
Absolutely no reason to be sorry! I am glad you are enjoying it! :)
The books were the best ever. The TV show was just okay.
Watched it for the first time yesterday, god what a badly acted disjointed piece of ***"""""", not surprised that it was produced by the same idiots who gave us the train crash that was the BBC's War of The World's!!!.
I gave myself concussion face palming to the War of the World's, oh so bad
But I want to watch you watch The Watch.
no!
I'm enjoying the hell out of the series, and I'm also re-listening to the Watch series of discworld books.
You need to stop expecting a 1:1 recreation of the books. Not only would that be boring, it also wouldn't translate well.
Terry Pratchett actually described the universe of the discworld as a multiverse, so there's all the justification you need to not compare this series to the books. It's the same characters in a different universe.
All of the actors are very good at their roles, even though the episodic format seems to rush the pacing a bit.
Vimes's alcoholic twitching is pretty spot on for a high functioning drunk in a stressful situation. The new take on Death is pretty interesting also. And though it's kinda hard to admit it, Nobby and Colon aren't really necessary, as primarily they're comic relief.
Glad you are enjoying it. But there is very good reason why Pratchett's own daughter, as well as his mate Neil Gaiman, dislike it. Call it something else if you are going to change the source material so much.
Got virtually every Discworld novel here.
I’m kinda enjoying this series for what it is - Discworld in name only. As a show in its own right it’s perfectly fine. Mind you I’m not a fan of the scattergun approach to the use of character names and places on the disc. Since when
The lack of RUclips reviews about beyond the “SJW LEFTIST WOKE RUINED FOREVER” fake outrage channels that did vids on this when previews came out is telling - it’s not good enough or bad enough to bother covering. Maybe that it’s going under the radar is a good thing.
This is one of my favorite novels of all time. The series strip mined some elements of the book than made it into a completely different and much worst thing.
Yeah.... Just looking for something entertaining to escape the reality of reality.
Totally get that, and I hope you enjoy it!