Fantastic stuff. You've opened up a whole new rabbit hole or can of worms for me to explore. I used to have use of the prototype Elka Synthex which was very different internally to the production models and it had certain sounds that were very different. This may allow me to get closer to what I remember.
I've never had the chance to experiment with Synthex... but from what I've read, they used DCOs (digitally controlled analog oscillators), so I would recommend keeping per-voice variance to oscillators at a minimum (or more likely, don't add any per voice variance to osc pitch)... and just target filter and envelope characteristics for per-voice variance. This will probably get closest to Synthex character. Not sure about the Voice Allocation mode, but I would probably go with Cycle/Round Robin mode. Maybe Reassign if playing pads / longer release sounds, to avoid voice stealing with the PB's six voices.
@@CreativeSpiral Thank you for the prompt reply, I will have a play around based on what you've said. The prototype was full of stack voice cards and apparently different from the final production model. We took it to Elka to retrofit midi, but it couldn't be done as it was so different. It originally went to Keith Emerson, but ended up in my friend's hands. It was eventually swapped for a new, midi model with an Irish producer called Basil Hendricks. I have a few examples of it on 2" multitrack and in mixes and I can hear that it was definitely different to the production models. It's strings we're unbelievably good (that was why Basil wanted it) but it also produced a sort of frosty high pass sound that was so fragile and detailed. I haven't heard it since and have never been able to recreate it. Unfortunately it's from memory because I haven't got an audio example. It was used on a track that was never released and was wiped after a legal dispute (over payment as usual) . It was a preset on the prototype, but not on any other. It's haunted me since the mid eighties and I'm hoping the PB can get me close. Your investigations will prove invaluable in trying to get there. Thank you.
Awesome! I like the polybrute, but I was slightly tired to hear only these pads / organic sounds. I'm so glad to hear more vintages sounds. Thanks for the great work!
Doood. Awesome stuff. I have an OB-6 and the recently released vintage mode for it has made a huge difference in much the same way that you've done this for the Polybrute. Bravo!
Thanks @Robert! Yeah, the vintage mode on Seq instruments is very good... they are using the same general methodology as this. I did a video a while back documenting the Seq Vintage Mode, if you're interested in more info on the specifics. Cheers, Jason ruclips.net/video/G7tdp5tvopU/видео.html
Jason, thank you very much for sharing these tutorials, much appreciated! Just got a Polybrute for Christmas and ran into your videos days back., and, these will certainly come in handy. Steep learning curve for me of course. Already got your Fundamentals Sound Set and must say these sound amazing. My keyboard skills do not make them justice, yet, hoping to improve such as I also learn this incredible device. Thank you very much for sharing your talents & knowledge with all of us.
This was great! Not seen anything that covers this before. I hope you are going to make up some libraries. I just bought a Polybrute and this has is the best overview I’ve seen. I had a sense that the synth might be a bit harsh sounding but you’ve removed that concern. 👍
Glad you found it useful! Yeah, the Polybrute is capable of very warm/organic sounds, especially with voice modeling. I do have a library / soundset here: sounddesign.sellfy.store/p/polybrute-fundamentals-sound-set/
Purchased and downloaded the Sound Set. Amazing value at $35. I would have paid more. Everyone get this. You already paid a million dollars for the PolyBrute so yeah. Thank you!
When you played your Tom Sawyer patch, I'm like "yeah, this guy knows what's up". LOL Thanks for sharing your research on vintage voice modeling, it makes such a positive difference.
You can definitely get in the ball park of vintage Prophet 5 sounds... if you set the Polybrute Voice allocation to Reassign, that will mimic a similar voice allocation / voice stealing behavior. Add per voice variance like as described in this video. The filter sound of the 4-Pole Ladder is a bit different at medium to high resonance settings, but with low resonance, you can mimic that classic sounds very closely. There's some P5 inspired patches (and additional templates) provided in my sound set that I did too, if you're interested: ruclips.net/video/GtO_21mPs_s/видео.html
Tasty! Although I'm still playing catch-up with analog terms coming from digital FM and romplers (well, quasi romplers since the keyboards I've used 'can' import samples, it's still mostly a rompler) feel free to bore me with expository like the links you provided on VCM.
Thanks! Yes, it works on PB12 as well... I made a sound set of 120+ patches for PB called "Fundamentals", and have been playing them on PB12 this past week... they sound great, and benefit from Poly AT as well! sounddesign.sellfy.store/p/polybrute-fundamentals-sound-set/
Thanks for the reply! This is awesome! I was actually going to go for the OBX8 but this will allow me to have more polyphony along with vintage vibes when I want.
Brilliant! I already used VCM on the Rev2, but on the PolyBrute it‘s wayyy less tedious. A new inspiration to me is the pitch scaling. Do you scale also other parameters than pitch? And what about the Pitch Accuracy menu item? I find it very useful, subtler than the oscillator slop on the Rev2. Do you know what exactly it does?
Thanks bud! Yeah, definitely more straightforward on the PolyBrute... and because of the way the mod matrix is set up, you can target large amounts of parameters without giving up any sound design real estate you might want for sound design purposes. (the Rev 2 still does offer a bit more granularity in voice-by-voice modeling, but Polybrute is definitely well suited for this type of modulation) The Pitch Accuracy seems to have a similar behavior to routing voice number to Pitch VCO1, VCO1, like I do in the voice modeling setup. It appears to be stable offsets, so better than slop which causes constant artificial drifting. You could probably use that pitch accuracy setting instead of the two Osc voice routings... seems very similar. I will probably just continue to do it through the mod matrix, for fine tune control over each oscillator per voice... also, as mentioned in the video, I'm using intonation/osc scaling methods as well on many patches. The pitch accuracy just targets osc pitches though, so definitely hit the other big targets (cutoff, ADR timings, etc) if you want to capture vintage vibe. Cheers!
Yeah, tested out all my PB6 patches on the new PB12 (this VCM template and my PB Fundamentals soundset)... they all work/sound great! I've started to work on a new soundset as well, using the new keybed modes and some more layered patches now that there's 12 voices.
I've never had the chance to experiment with Synthex... but from what I've read, they used DCOs (digitally controlled analog oscillators), so I would recommend keeping per-voice variance to oscillators at a minimum (or more likely, don't add any per voice variance to osc pitch)... and just target filter and envelope characteristics for per-voice variance. This will probably get closest to Synthex character. Not sure about the Voice Allocation mode, but I would probably go with Cycle/Round Robin mode. Maybe Reassign if playing pads / longer release sounds, to avoid voice stealing with the PB's six voices.
you sir are my favorite synthfluencer. the work you are doing is important!
Thanks Ben! Glad you have found it useful.
My friend, you are clearly a genius!
Fantastic stuff. You've opened up a whole new rabbit hole or can of worms for me to explore. I used to have use of the prototype Elka Synthex which was very different internally to the production models and it had certain sounds that were very different. This may allow me to get closer to what I remember.
I've never had the chance to experiment with Synthex... but from what I've read, they used DCOs (digitally controlled analog oscillators), so I would recommend keeping per-voice variance to oscillators at a minimum (or more likely, don't add any per voice variance to osc pitch)... and just target filter and envelope characteristics for per-voice variance. This will probably get closest to Synthex character. Not sure about the Voice Allocation mode, but I would probably go with Cycle/Round Robin mode. Maybe Reassign if playing pads / longer release sounds, to avoid voice stealing with the PB's six voices.
@@CreativeSpiral Thank you for the prompt reply, I will have a play around based on what you've said. The prototype was full of stack voice cards and apparently different from the final production model. We took it to Elka to retrofit midi, but it couldn't be done as it was so different. It originally went to Keith Emerson, but ended up in my friend's hands. It was eventually swapped for a new, midi model with an Irish producer called Basil Hendricks. I have a few examples of it on 2" multitrack and in mixes and I can hear that it was definitely different to the production models. It's strings we're unbelievably good (that was why Basil wanted it) but it also produced a sort of frosty high pass sound that was so fragile and detailed. I haven't heard it since and have never been able to recreate it. Unfortunately it's from memory because I haven't got an audio example. It was used on a track that was never released and was wiped after a legal dispute (over payment as usual) . It was a preset on the prototype, but not on any other. It's haunted me since the mid eighties and I'm hoping the PB can get me close. Your investigations will prove invaluable in trying to get there. Thank you.
Your patches sound great! Modulating the envelope timings with Voices leads to some magical results, esp. with the envelopes set to loop.
Awesome! I like the polybrute, but I was slightly tired to hear only these pads / organic sounds. I'm so glad to hear more vintages sounds. Thanks for the great work!
Doood. Awesome stuff. I have an OB-6 and the recently released vintage mode for it has made a huge difference in much the same way that you've done this for the Polybrute. Bravo!
Thanks @Robert! Yeah, the vintage mode on Seq instruments is very good... they are using the same general methodology as this. I did a video a while back documenting the Seq Vintage Mode, if you're interested in more info on the specifics. Cheers, Jason ruclips.net/video/G7tdp5tvopU/видео.html
I purchased the patch pack and they are amazing! Its nice to see how these amazing sounds were achieved. Thanks for the video!
excellent video and info, I'll check out those free patches
Excellent work!
Thank you for sharing the knowledge!!
Thank you for this!
Jason, thank you very much for sharing these tutorials, much appreciated! Just got a Polybrute for Christmas and ran into your videos days back., and, these will certainly come in handy. Steep learning curve for me of course. Already got your Fundamentals Sound Set and must say these sound amazing. My keyboard skills do not make them justice, yet, hoping to improve such as I also learn this incredible device. Thank you very much for sharing your talents & knowledge with all of us.
Glad you're enjoying the sound set! Congrats on the PB - its a really amazing synth! Cheers, Jason
Fantastic work, thanks :)
Saw your link on the gearspace Oberheim thread. Very informative video thanks for sharing
Awesome! I was hoping someone would start this type of stuff
Great video sir
Glad you enjoyed. Cheers, Jason
amazing job on this one! thanx!
This was great! Not seen anything that covers this before. I hope you are going to make up some libraries. I just bought a Polybrute and this has is the best overview I’ve seen. I had a sense that the synth might be a bit harsh sounding but you’ve removed that concern. 👍
Glad you found it useful! Yeah, the Polybrute is capable of very warm/organic sounds, especially with voice modeling. I do have a library / soundset here: sounddesign.sellfy.store/p/polybrute-fundamentals-sound-set/
Amazing how many hours of time and work you put into this. Thank you so much! So eye-opening! Ok, ear opening.
Purchased and downloaded the Sound Set. Amazing value at $35. I would have paid more. Everyone get this. You already paid a million dollars for the PolyBrute so yeah. Thank you!
Thanks Mark! Glad you're enjoying the sounds! Cheers.
Thanks for good explanation. I don't have a PolyBrute yet but it's on my list .
When you played your Tom Sawyer patch, I'm like "yeah, this guy knows what's up". LOL Thanks for sharing your research on vintage voice modeling, it makes such a positive difference.
Thank you so much for the tips, it's inspiring !
Superb.
Sounds great. How do you rate the Polybrute against the DSI Rev2?
Awesome! Speaking of Prophet. Is it possible to reproduce Prophet 5 patch 1.1.1 on PB? Very informative vid! tweaking PB thru. learning. TNX!
You can definitely get in the ball park of vintage Prophet 5 sounds... if you set the Polybrute Voice allocation to Reassign, that will mimic a similar voice allocation / voice stealing behavior. Add per voice variance like as described in this video. The filter sound of the 4-Pole Ladder is a bit different at medium to high resonance settings, but with low resonance, you can mimic that classic sounds very closely. There's some P5 inspired patches (and additional templates) provided in my sound set that I did too, if you're interested: ruclips.net/video/GtO_21mPs_s/видео.html
@@CreativeSpiral Thanks so much to reply and pointer, CS! will be smthg to watch and tweak on wknds!
Tasty! Although I'm still playing catch-up with analog terms coming from digital FM and romplers (well, quasi romplers since the keyboards I've used 'can' import samples, it's still mostly a rompler) feel free to bore me with expository like the links you provided on VCM.
Unreal!
This is awesome! Thanks for sharing. Does this also work for the Polybrute 12?
Thanks! Yes, it works on PB12 as well... I made a sound set of 120+ patches for PB called "Fundamentals", and have been playing them on PB12 this past week... they sound great, and benefit from Poly AT as well! sounddesign.sellfy.store/p/polybrute-fundamentals-sound-set/
Thanks for the reply! This is awesome! I was actually going to go for the OBX8 but this will allow me to have more polyphony along with vintage vibes when I want.
Brilliant! I already used VCM on the Rev2, but on the PolyBrute it‘s wayyy less tedious.
A new inspiration to me is the pitch scaling. Do you scale also other parameters than pitch?
And what about the Pitch Accuracy menu item? I find it very useful, subtler than the oscillator slop on the Rev2. Do you know what exactly it does?
Thanks bud! Yeah, definitely more straightforward on the PolyBrute... and because of the way the mod matrix is set up, you can target large amounts of parameters without giving up any sound design real estate you might want for sound design purposes. (the Rev 2 still does offer a bit more granularity in voice-by-voice modeling, but Polybrute is definitely well suited for this type of modulation) The Pitch Accuracy seems to have a similar behavior to routing voice number to Pitch VCO1, VCO1, like I do in the voice modeling setup. It appears to be stable offsets, so better than slop which causes constant artificial drifting. You could probably use that pitch accuracy setting instead of the two Osc voice routings... seems very similar. I will probably just continue to do it through the mod matrix, for fine tune control over each oscillator per voice... also, as mentioned in the video, I'm using intonation/osc scaling methods as well on many patches. The pitch accuracy just targets osc pitches though, so definitely hit the other big targets (cutoff, ADR timings, etc) if you want to capture vintage vibe. Cheers!
So, will these patches work in the new PolyBrute 12, or will it require some adaptation?
Yeah, tested out all my PB6 patches on the new PB12 (this VCM template and my PB Fundamentals soundset)... they all work/sound great! I've started to work on a new soundset as well, using the new keybed modes and some more layered patches now that there's 12 voices.
Incidentally, do you have any data/suggestions or sound analysis of the Synthex?
I've never had the chance to experiment with Synthex... but from what I've read, they used DCOs (digitally controlled analog oscillators), so I would recommend keeping per-voice variance to oscillators at a minimum (or more likely, don't add any per voice variance to osc pitch)... and just target filter and envelope characteristics for per-voice variance. This will probably get closest to Synthex character. Not sure about the Voice Allocation mode, but I would probably go with Cycle/Round Robin mode. Maybe Reassign if playing pads / longer release sounds, to avoid voice stealing with the PB's six voices.
Do you have that document with values to download?
www.presetpatch.com/articles/PolyBrute-Vintage-Voice-Modeling-and-Free-Patches