That was a wonderful and insightful review Miss J. My dad and I watched both of these mini-series when they were first broadcast. Dad was a fan of Wouk's books. I had just finished reading Toltoy's gigantic novel War and Peace in college and so I had a good idea of what Wouk was doing. I was also studying film making at that time and was mesmerized by Dan Curtis' achievement as producer-director. It is one of the greatest WWII television depictions (along with Band of Brothers and The Pacific).
WHY is this not on tv with some regularity?! There are a ton of old-movie channels; the History Channel and its variants/competitors are comfortable with historical fiction. AND YET, the last 3 decades, I have never seen this on TV until laying my hands on the DVDs. I have never seen this as a repeat on network TV or syndication. I was a teenager when this came out the first time, too young to really get it in Winds of War, and blown away by War and Remembrance. Some bigshot producer PLEASE PLEASE put this on tv instead of your next pawn-shop truck driver reality tv series. ALSO, we are releasing entire series of other things all at once on Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.. Why not do the same with this? Do it. DO IT.
People had time to watch because there was no social media and there were no cell phones so you didn't have cable taking over the world as it is now. Plus you didn't have 24 hour news broadcasts like we do now with CNN and others so you had people tuning in because they wanted to get rid of their mundane life and delve into a juicy series just like North and South and Shogun and so many amazing series that came on back then The Thornbirds was very long as well and it was very successful so it was a different time and I thank God that I was part of that time. I myself was a teenager at the time and with my family watched all these great mini series. They aired them usually on Sunday nights for two hours so they didn't overwhelm you. It was usually weekly for so many weeks. The work that the directors and writers did on the series to me was incredible in scope and beautifully portrayed on screen.
I was a senior in college with 3 roommates, one white, two black, when "Roots" premiered in 1976/7. That was not to be missed TV for our household. School work, tests, nothing got in the way of watching that series, no matter how hard it was to watch some scenes. At least I knew none of my ancestors had owned slaves, being New England Puritan abolitionists on both sides of my family and one ancestor died fighting for the Union under Grant. But still....
I was 23 when the Winds of War came out and 28 for War and Remembrance Robert Mitchum is the coolest guy ever on the screen and I actually preferred Steven berkoff as Hitler. Natalie and Aaron were both stubborn!
I thought the Hitler actors each worked perfectly in the production they were in. Taken together, it created an overall effect of a dictator completely losing whatever grip he once had.
"Winds of War" Natalie was irritating beyond description. "War and Remembrance" Natalie was well played. Her stupidity was toned way down. WOW and WAR are back on RUclips which is great, allowed me to skip Natalie scenes (and others) with ease.
@@illogicerr3769 you have to admit natalie is rapidly mugged by a horrible reality in war. In wow, there is still some hope pretty much through the the end.
CW -Thank you again for a great essay on a pair of fine mini-series. When you mentioned how great the main theme was, i instantly began humming it tho' i haven't heard it in decades. But...I haven't seen WaR because... In the early 70's I became a serious student of history and *The Winds of War* scratched all the proper places, plus it was a superb family drama in the greatest setting of the 20th century. The Henry family together was the "Forrest Gump" of WWII. I absolutely gobbled the book [it's one of my two fav' novels] and was thrilled to learn that Wouk was in the process of a sequel. I had to wait a couple of years and when it was published, i borrowed *War and Remembrance* and began gobbling it up. But... ...there's a scene with Natalie that emotionally scarred me. I closed the book, put it down and had an internal debate on whether to go on. It was a close call but i finished the novel. Years later when ABC broadcast the first mini-series I watched it with my father. While it had some casting flaws [Mitchum too old, McGraw can't act] I was happy with the adaptation. The actress playing Pamela was ideal. Then 4 years later ABC broadcast WaR. It's been 35 years and i've *NEVER* considered watching it. Your emotional section on the Nazi atrocities have validated the concern for my emotional health. Great writing and film can make characters seem like real relatives and friends. And it hurts to read/see them suffer. Some day i hope to gather up the courage to view the 2nd series. Like you state in the review, if we can be traumatized by reading/watching, how much worse is it for the victims or their families. Good review. Now i'll watch your review of the novels...
Brilliant soundtrack to this series as well. Whole series is a massive tribute to The Greatest Generation. Watch out for a young Sharon Stone playing the wife of Warren Henry ie daughter in law of Pug and Roda
I was 36 when I saw the first of them on ABC and nearly 43 when the second one concluded. I honestly can't remember if I read them during the 70's, probably did read both before the portrayals aired, or at least between the two airings and loved both books. Astonishing similarity between the historical narration sections and TV documentaries like "Victory at Sea." Great, tremendously well-cast, marvelously filmed and magnificently well-acted war-time saga of an amazingly well-wrought family! Very glad to have just finished binge viewing of "War and Remembrance" the last two days! Glad to have the time free for that...
I finally got my lady involved in WW2. War& Remembrance was epic & she was glued! She’s hooked! I’m a WW2 buff in case you hadn’t realized. Anyway it’s great to see a young lady talking about this subject. I’m a Vietnam Veteran but have always respected the Greatest Generation. 😎
I was 6 when "Winds of War" came out in '83 and about 11 when "War and Remembrance" came out in "88-89, but I knew nothing about these two series when they came out at the time. I was surfing RUclips last week when the series popped after watching "The Bunker" with Sir Anthony Hopkins. I was hooked immediately. Winds of War was very good and War an Remembrance was great. It took me a minute to get used to the cast changes but the new cast as you said owned the roles for themselves, especially the actors who played Natalie and Aaron. Great review.
Herman Wouk is a terrific writer, and I've just finished reading the two books for the fourth or fifth time. Incidentally, if you enjoy audiobooks, they are both excellent adn available on Audible. The two miniseries are faithful to their source material (in fact Dan Curtis' creed was when in doubt turn to the book). I love this series, and it's easy to get lost in both the television interpretations and novels. At the time of its production, War and Remembrance was the most expensive television production ever, and later Stephen King complained that the series was the ruin of the miniseries as ABC forced him to keep a few of his productions (The Stand, The Shining and Storm of the Century) to within reason. The ACTUAL ruin of the miniseries was that by 1990 people had a hell of a lot more choice when it came to television and the advertising dollars just weren't there. Now the miniseries has returned with a force on streaming services (although they aren't referred to as the miniseries). Also, it would be nice to see a high definition restoration of the pair.
I watched this about 7 years ago with my mother who is sadly no longer with us and we adored it. Just the theme song alone is awesome. I'm watching it over and it's just as good now as it was then
I just came across this video since I am (almost!) done reading "Winds of War' and only recently became aware that there was an 'event length' miniseries made from these books. I loved you review! You are so charming and humble, but your commentary is so well thought out. Thank you. Please keep up the good work! I am a happy new subscriber!
I've been watching various RUclips reactors take on movies and TV shows for years now and this is the first time I have ever felt moved to give one a hug. I never saw this when it first came out and I had no inkling of what all was in it. Back in the 80s, not only did people go to theaters, but they treated miniseries like these as major theatrical events. Shogun is a bit clunky but overall, I definitely recommend it, it was made with the novelist James Clavell heavily involved, and I find him to be one of the more addictive authors of gigantic stories. I asked one man about whether he liked this and all he did was reel off statistics about how expensive it was and how much it involved. It sounded to me like he felt somehow OBLIGED to like it, because it was so big and serious, plus everyone else was watching it. There was a lot less variety back in the 80s -- less technology too, back then one had a sense of "appointment television" -- but having just three broadcast networks also lent America an odd sense of community. Nowadays it's tough to tell what's "big" anymore, and I live with an endless terror of "What's out there which may be really great but I'm missing out on it!?" One reason you are such a prize -- truly, you are -- is that you afford us a chance to take a break from today's madcap hustle-bustle of zillion dollar corporations competing for our eyeballs, to newly appreciate good work from generations past. Thank you very much, Rome, and owl be seeing you.
I read the War and Rememberance book back in 1990. It seemed to follow the miniseries prity close but I remember the one and only fictional German General shareing his thoughts in his diery in the book and that wasn't in the miniseries, he even talked about the Battle of Midway
Jerome Weiselberry. I enjoyed your review. I agree with your sentiment for Leslie Slote. He an Pug Henry run neck and neck for my favorite character. 100% concur on Pamela Tudsberry being the prima for the female actresses. Concur also on Natalie Jastrow being annoying and idiotic. Her Uncle Aaron didn't help at all. The handwriting was on the wall and was plain to see. GET THE HELL OUT OF EUROPE. The scenes of the "processing" people for extermination was indeed tough to watch. Curtis was adamant with the studios that it needed to be scene as shot and not censored. A big THANK YOU to all of the extras that dug deep and stepped up to be filmed. As for there not being a whole lot of scenes from the Pacific I think that can be explained. FDR, Churchill and Stalin all agreed that Hitler needed to be defeated first. The "Silent Service," the U.S. Navy submarines, did an amazing job of reducing the Japanese Navy and merchant fleet with unrestricted submarine warfare. READ THE BOOKS. There are THREE OF THEM. They are a book within the books since the story is being told by General Armin von Roon as he writes his memoirs. I CAN SEE Pug being at many of these key events at the right time. There were people who got to see much of the in's and out's of what was going on. I finished an AMAZING BOOK last year called THE JERSEY BROTHERS: A MISSING NAVAL OFFICER IN THE PACIFIC AND HIS FAMILY'S QUEST TO BRING HIM HOME. The author, Sally Mott Freeman, is telling the story of her uncles. One of whom was on the staff of FDR and then went to the Enterprise. He did communicate with FDR from time to time. Amazing book. About the trauma of seeing things depicted, I can relate to that. I had a dear friend, Harry J. Mann M.D. who had been a bombardier on B-24 Liberator's during the war. He flew 30 missions over Europe and North Africa in the early days of the air war. He then went back to the states and was trained in B--29's and sent to India. From there he flew into China and bombed Japan. He was shot down and captured and endured a lot. When "Saving Private Ryan" was released there was an awful lot of discussion generated over the intensity of the first 25-30 minutes on Omaha Beach. Harry mentioned he was thinking about going to see it. My wife and I told him we were going to see it and we'd let him know if he should go or not. When the movie ended we looked at each other and we both said, "Harry doesn't need to see this." We told him our recommendation and he never saw it. He lived it.
I have watched it when it first came out in 1983 when I was living in Los Angeles and subsequently I watched both series over DVD a number of times And nowadays I am able to find the two mini series on RUclips how time have progressed and technology also progressed
I really appreciate the years of research Herman Wouk put into these works. It really does show. The scope and high level of detail are great. There were some great historical miniseries like I Claudius, North and South, Shogun, and Lonesome Dove, but these two might be my favorites. The story is haunting and deeply moving. Robert Mitchum was great even if he was a bit too old for the role. Jane Seymour should have been Natalie in both productions. Nothing against Ali McGraw, I just think Jane Seymour was better suited for the role. Also Ralph Bellamy was great as FDR. I really appreciate your review. I tend to follow both up with Judgment At Nuremberg as a spiritual sequel. I have also read that they are planning on remaking WOW which could be interesting. Certainly casting it would be fun. So many memorable characters.
Remake WOW? I don't believe any Hollywood director would go the lengths for authenticity that Dan Curtis went. I also don't think we have a Robert Mitchum around to play Pug!
How did people have the time? Easy. Many of us were NOT tied up with the internet or cell phones and many had lived during those times...and some, like when I was a young USAF airman at the time, had read the books, knew the history, and met people like Doolittle and Timbers. Now I challenge young people to watch it without going to computers uninterrupted. Oh, the reels of Hitlers complete speeches are out there, and you can see how charismatic he was to the German people.
Thank you for your overview of both mini series. I am going to re-watch "Winds of War" on youtube . I watched the original airing of it in 1983 when it debuted on abc TV. I was 26 years old back then, and loved history, not to mention my mom and dad (both gone now) were WWll era young adults at the time. My dad joined the US Marine Corps in 1942 at 18 yrs old as soon as he got out of High School, just like so many did around the nation. Anyway, I'm now 63 years old, and want to refresh my knowledge of some of the events that occurred during the war time. I know Hollywood uses "creative license", but for the most part it is historically accurate. I love Robert Mitcham's work as an actor in general, but he is so grandfatherly in this series. I never saw "War and Remembrance, but I think I'll watch that as well. Again, I'm glad I stumbled upon your channel, and will check in from time to time. God Bless"
Love your Discripion on The Winds of War & War & Rememberence. I saw them both, when they first premiered, on TV 📺 back in the 80s. Sad to see that a high host of actors & actresses are dead. Keep up the good work Kid !
You gave a very thoughtful and fair review. Winds of War was funded by Paramount studios. They balked at the final cost and left it to ABC network to fund War and Remembrance. That cost ABC $104 million ($250 million in 2023 dollars) to produce. They took a bath on it as the Nielsen ratings were not as high as had been anticipated during production.
There exists an audio recording of Hitler's normal speaking voice, which is available on RUclips. It was made during a meeting with Finnish leader Mannerheim, and is about tge onky known recording of Der Fuehrer's normal voice.
I was really surprised when you mentioned the running times for these respective miniseries! Knowing Dan Curtis was involved, and how many of his earlier works were very shoestring (in production costs, not overall quality), I wasn't expecting these miniseries to be so epic in scale! *From Wikipedia:* The Winds of War - The almost 15-hour-long series was shown by ABC in seven parts over seven evenings, between February 6 and February 13, 1983, and attracted an average of 80 million viewers per night. The 962-page script contained 1785 scenes and 285 speaking parts. The production involved 4,000 camera setups and shot a million feet of exposed film. The estimated budget was very large for its time, $38 million ($120 million in 2017 dollars).[/Wikipedia] Compared to 2018, entertainment choices were very limited back in the early '80s. No internet, cable tv was really just starting to come into the marketplace, and very few television choices were available yet. Many people had the three major network channels (ABC, NBC, and CBS), along with their local PBS affiliate...and _maybe_ one or two other static-laced "local" channels that they could barely pick up on their rabbit ears, when the night sky was just right. We didn't have 16-screen multiplexes, nor were there ten new theatrical movies released _every_ weekend. Many films would play for six months to a year. And the world just wasn't 24/7 like it is now. Not every corner of suburban real estate was loaded with Corporate American restaurants, convenience marts, and 24-hour grocery stores. Life just kinda dialed down when the sun set, and since shift-working wasn't as prevalent then as it is now, people followed suit with that 9-5 sun up/sun down schedule. There was a lot of genuinely bad overly-formulaic primetime television in the '80s, but the tv miniseries was truly a special occasion! My mother could.not.wait for *Shogun* (1980) to come on each night, as an example. Miniseries were event television, like we rarely get anymore, with the possible exception of *Game of Thrones* . That reported audience of 80 million people a night is impressive even to this day! Taking into account the obvious difference in population numbers from 1983 to 2019, those are Super Bowl viewership-level numbers, even in this era. I see that in '83, an estimated 81 million people tuned into the Super Bowl so, yeah, *The Winds of War* was right there, only it did it over seven nearly-consecutive evenings! Amazing! *War and Remembrance* didn't fare as well: *From Wikipedia:* The War and Remembrance miniseries was originally intended to run on consecutive nights in 1989, but the 1988 Writers Guild of America strike caused ABC to move the first half, chapters I-VII, up to air in the fall of 1988, with the episodes no longer airing on consecutive nights. The miniseries underperformed ABC's ratings expectations, with the first chapter averaging an 18.6 Nielsen rating and a 29% viewer share. Dan Curtis blamed the lower ratings partly on the confusing airdates, saying in a 2002 interview that ABC "skipped Saturdays and Mondays, the viewers lost the thread, and they didn't even put up a sign saying 'To Be Continued' at the end of the first half." NBC also mocked ABC's airing strategy in a promo for their November sweeps programming, comparing their schedule of various regular series, television premieres of acquired films, the Vanna White telefilm Goddess of Love and a Comedy Store special against ABC's "eighteen hours of a war story that doesn't end". Due to the lower than expected ratings for the first half, the second half, chapters VIII-XII (marketed by ABC as "The Final Chapter"), had several hours cut before airing. The second half was also mixed and aired in mono, instead of the stereo used on the first half. This was not a cost-cutting measure, but the result of a technical issue encountered with airing the stereo mix on the first half. Capital Cities/ABC lost an estimated $30-$40 million on the production.[/Wikipedia] That Wiki Dive Indulgence aside (and *Thank You* to anyone still with me at this point), this has been one of my favorite reviews of yours, Jerome. Your honesty and thoughtfulness in reporting _your_ experience with a particular work of art is why I keep coming back to this channel time and time again. I'm also amazed at how many works you've turned me on to, many of which I would have never given a second glance otherwise. On that note, *The Winds of War* and *War and Remembrance* are now on the ("Books First") list.
Yes, the idea of that many people tuning in to a program like this, not just once, but every night for seven consecutive nights is amazing to me. Seems like it would be impossible to achieve that now, what with all the different channels and shows and streaming services people have to choose from. BTW after looking up Shogun I asked my mom if she saw it, and she did! She said she watched the whole thing and enjoyed it. Oh, thank you!! This ended up being a challenging review to make for a few different reasons (some that are no doubt obvious), and I'm very grateful to hear that you enjoyed it so much. :)
The mini - series of the 1970s and 1980s were often major events. I made time to watch them. That's what other people did, too. By the mid-80s, VCRs were becoming more common, so there was the option of recording the shows, at least for some. There was another miniseries about the WW 2/ Holocaust back then, too. Meryl Streep was in it, probably one of her first major roles that I recall. Can't remember the name, off hand.
Steven Berkoff is a Britiish actor whose probably best known to 80s audiences for playing European villians. Him playing Hilter was no exception. While his protrayl of Hilter as an oft ranting mad man may not fit with how Hilter truly conducted himself, I still find it as believable as it is formidable.
Both miniseries, The Winds of War, and War and Remembrances are excellent, even today that production looks good. But personally for me that show has some additional levels of values, back then in late '70ies production was mostly done in ex Yugoslavia, today's Croatia, to be more precise among other locations in Croatian capital Zagreb, the sets for some sceenes were done in close proximity of my neighborhood where I lived, so back then I was a 10 yr old kid, and I clearly remember setting up the sets and filming, and for me and my buddies that was a huge attraction, an old militaraya seen only on TV and cinema, cameras and a spot lights, and we kids was aware that this has to be something important, big and intersting, so we stick to film crew all the times. At that time we were a kids highly influenced by both Hollywood WW2 movies and Yugoslav partisan WW2 movies, those are mostly spaghetti western kind if WW2 movies, so often we played a war games partisans vs. Germans, or cowboys vs. indians in the woods on slopes of Medvednica mountain. Regarding partisan vs. Germans we had available pretty authentic sceenery, e.g. abandoned WW2 bunkers and fortifications, and stuff like that, but we didn't had military gear, only plastic toyguns. And then the Wind of War crew with all of that original military stuff seen only on TV we imagined to have come in to town, for us that was like a Disneyland come in to town. We didn't care much about Robert Mitchum, and rest of Hollywood celebrities. It was like that: Can I sit in that Kubelwagen for a while? Can I took only one stahlhelm? Come on you have a plenty, you not gonna miss it, you have a plenty of cool stuff in here. Why are you so selfish? Can I hold that Maschinen-pistole, please? OK kid go away! Pease Sir, leve me in here, because I'm making my own movie in my head, and mine is better then yours. How do you call it? Winds of War? Back then I didn't know who Robert Mitchum is, but I clearly remember that I meet a guy. And because of that experience I bragged my parents to get 8mm camera, and later on I got it. Today I wish to had that camera while filming happened, that home movie would be a nice document, cause we were inside sets. Ironically couple of years later the War and Remembrances show came to town, and all bunch of other WW2 Hollywood productions, but I grow older and I lost an interest. But today when I watch that series it is a time capsule of childhood in Zagreb of my neighborhood.
My Mother and I watched The Winds of War when it was originally broadcast on television many years ago...I think I was in fourth grade! We did enjoy it, though from different angles: she was more interested in the family drama, while I was primarily invested in the military elements. Good memories.
The scene's you mentioned in War and Rememberance were extremely hard to watch, but it's important to remember history and my feeling is this movie series in total should be shown to high school students with permission from their parents of course. It's so important to remember our history, of the wars we were in and why. They need to learn about the Holocaust, what the Jewish people went through at the hands of the Nazi Regime and the evil behind it. And if possible let them speak to soldiers who fought in WW2 and to Holocaust survivors if any are still alive. And they also need to learn why something like this can never ever ever be allowed to happen to any group of people again, no matter their color, race or religion.
Very much agreed with this brief review of an epic entertainment event. First, Natalie Jastrow was as detestable a character as I have ever experienced. Sadly, I don't believe the character was created to evoke such viewer feelings but the roller coaster ride of emotions the viewer had to endure can be attributed in large part to the flufffy unprofessional ineptitude of so- called actress, Ali MacGraw. Simply stated, MacGraw was awful. Second, the ongoing refusal of Natalie and Aaron Jastrow to flee danger was so mind-numbingly inane that I actually found myself pulling for the Nazis to just go ahead and send them East if only to get them out of the production once and for all. Anyway, a very nice review of an otherwise significant 1980s television event.
That Auschwitz bit in the penultimate episode was particularly harrowing. My own late maternal grandpa survived Auschwitz, and he was with those who were captured in 1944. He never talked about it. I only asked him about it once when I was eleven. He said, "I don't like to talk about sad things, it happened and the Nazis lose [sic] the war. I survived and I have a family and I'm happy."
It’s the most beautiful thing ever made those two series . I just finished it last night for the 20th time maybe .. every year I give it a round . I thought it was cool someone did a review of it .
Excellent review Jerome, as usual. I'm sure you're not alone in many of your sentiments...I saw Schindler's List upon its release in theaters and have never revisited it. And yet much of it remains seared into my memory. And yet, it's the favorite film of a friend of my who re-watches it on a yearly basis.I personally remember and honor the film, but do not need to see it again. Individual preferences. While War and Remembrance is well known for its depiction of the Holocaust, I feel the 4-part 1978 miniseries Holocaust dealt with it a more straightforward and intensive manner. Directed by Marvin J. Chomsky, with an incredible cast including Meryl Streep, it put the Holocaust front and center, and was perhaps even more wrenching than Remembrance. Yes, hard to watch, but I remember it as a stunning piece of work for its time. At least one critic at the time criticized Remembrance for its juxtaposition of the Holocaust with the more mundane, soap opera storylines involving the family characters back in the states. But I thought the juxtaposition was one of the more interesting aspects of the production. Usually, somewhere around the globe, there are people going through pure hell, and yet elsewhere, people dwell on comparatively trivial and petty concerns. It was a subtle commentary that I think was missed by many.
Yes, that's pretty much exactly how I feel about Schindler's List. Same goes for The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas: the story isn't told on the same epic scale, but it's no less gut-wrenching, a film whose ending so stunned and upset me that I'll never get over it. I'm marginally familiar with the Holocaust miniseries. I'm sure it'll be worth checking out eventually, but I suspect it will be a long time before I'm ready to take it on... I can definitely understand such criticism of War and Remembrance. There were times when it felt like the significance of the drama certain characters were going through paled in comparison to what other characters were facing, like a "the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world" kind of situation. But it's a relative thing: their suffering or heartache isn't any less painful for them because of the unknown horrors that people on the other side of the world are experiencing. I also think the show did a great job with its structure and the placement of commercial breaks and transitions to other characters so that major sequences could be kept intact. The section with Himmler's visit to Auschwitz lasted somewhere between an hour to an hour and a half, and there were no interruptions to take away from the intense emotional climax. It would have been discordant and tasteless if the show had cut into the build-up to switch to another character.
8:00, how did audiences deal with something this long in the 80’s? Simple answer, compared to now (2020) there were not the same number of choices. More complex answer, in the 80s we had a lot more people who lived through the events portrayed in the films. Be they veterans or those on the home front. Sitting down as a family and watching tv was a real thing. Sometimes even discussing it at dinner (having real conversations ) was also a thing. Robert Mitchum was a real movie actor so having him act on the small screen was an event. With so much readily available media content from different sources, social media. I do understand why a question would be asked. Thank you for this review.
All three tv networks produced miniseries. When your competitors are limited to two other networks that are constantly looking for source material to produce ratings winning that could go as high as a 70 share like roots in 1978. Nothing on tv today is even close to that not even the superbowl
I don't know if you have reviewed Roots. There is other two miniseries I don't know if you're familiarized with , that is Blood Feud ( about the Kennedy brothers JFK and RFK trying to get Jimmy Hoffa to justice) and a French one, whose title is in that language, but in Spanish it was translated as Don't Kill the Rosenbergs, about the famous trial of this couple in the Cold War.
Very nice review, I very much agree with most of what you said, especially about getting a bit impatient sometimes with the fictional drama and wanting the show to get back to the war!
These books were awesome, having read the books first, I found the two TV renditions adequate, except for the Holocaust scenes towards the end which were staggeringly accurate. The world needs to remember what happened, lest it be repeated. I agree with most of your assessments of the various actors. Ali McGraw is as I imagined her when I read the books, but her acting is sub standard. Jane Seymour exceeded my expectations. J M Vincent was wooden and Hard Bochner was a big improvement. Robert Mitchum was wonderful, a man who acts with his eyes. READ THE BOOKS, they are superior literary works.
Then please let me warn you in advance: there are chapters written from the German perspective which read like dry history. If you're not into reading non-fiction, these chapters can really drag the narrative to a halt. Otherwise, I hope you enjoy them.
@@TheMacJew I don't read a ton of non-fiction, but a good deal of the non-fiction that I have read was WWII-related, so hopefully I won't be too flummoxed. Thanks for the heads-up!
Seth MacFarlane is remaking both as one big miniseries, probably for the peacock streaming service. I actually think it might be time for a new version.
The key phrases from their announcement are (1) "retold through the current lens," and (2) "new script"...which to me means....no. Just no. A big, fat, huge no. There are no "current lens" changes that they will (undoubtedly) make that can possibly suit the already perfect story. The character mix is perfect. Herman Wouk took from 1962-1977 to research and write these books, and each TV miniseries took 3 years to make. He wrote the script for Winds of War and co-wrote W&R. Those scripts are perfect, the story is perfect, and whatever "current lens" changes they make will mess things up. There's no way you can possibly improve on a script written by the author himself. Also, filming these things was an odyssey in itself. That will never happen again, nor will such a huge budget be given to a miniseries again. Luckily, Wouk's son has script approval. If he doesn't like what they're doing, it's not getting made.
I was in the middle of my 3rd watch of War and Remembrance (in honor of Herman Wouk's passing last week) when it was just deleted from RUclips. It must've been deleted today. Too bad. These are important programs. In terms of the watch first vs. read debate: I watched them first before reading. In my opinion, both programs are true to the books (which makes sense, Wouk wrote the screenplay for WoW and co-wrote it for W&R as you note...and he did it because of how much he disliked previous attempts to film his books). The Winds of War is perhaps richer. It's one of the finest books I've ever read, period. War and Remembrance contains some things that the miniseries did not show (the Tehran conference and Pug's involvement, chiefly, and a few comedic moments). But unfortunately, the biggest reason for me reading the books, getting additional detail on the ENDING, left me wanting. The last 200 pages of W&R positively FLIES by. You can tell that Wouk cut a lot, probably under editorial pressure. He wraps everything in 20 pages...not kidding. And there is no additional detail to the ending that wasn't shown onscreen except one line about Natalie's Auschwitz experience and a line about Janice. The biggest change is that in the miniseries, General Armin von Roon is a character. In the books, he's not. In the books, he's the one that provides the German view of the war, through Pug editing an English edition of his book. It's also through these chapters that Wouk provides an operational summary of the war's main events, "setting the scene" before going in with the characters. Roon's commentary is critiqued by Pug through editor's notes. I actually like him as a character (and friend to Pug) more than as an author writing from a Nuremburg prison cell. That was a positive change they made in adapting the books, I think. In general, and as you'd expect, the books go into a lot more detail. You can almost smell the cigarette smoke, the alcohol, the Chanel No.5 and Old Spice wafting in the air as they take you through the time period. And it's ASTOUNDING how well Polly Bergen played Rhoda. It was as if she was ripped from the page. Watching the shows first made me imagine the other characters as their TV counterparts. Pug was Robert Mitchum, even though he's described differently. Pamela was blond and not brunette. Madeleine is a bit different, and it goes into more detail about her radio career (owing to Wouk's experiences in radio). And Natalie was Jane Seymour. Oh, and Werner Beck...the book gives him a few inner monologues that really inform his character. He fights with himself...knowing that what's happening is wrong, but still serving the regime anyway. He's still a villain, but the show makes him slightly more nefarious. And one more edit, re: the characters -- The books go into more detail about Rhoda. She's still annoying, but her inner monologues show more of why she is this way. She's basically a social climber through and through, wondering if she's hitched her wagon to the right horse as Pug's career stalls. Still, she has qualities that are admirable, but in the end she's a 20 year old girl in a 50 year old's body who constantly wonders about her life choices. There's also Byron and Warren -- the shows cut out some of their unsavory aspects. The criticism about the women characters has been levelled at Wouk for years, but (perhaps because I'm male) I have no problem with it, since I've known women like these characters in my own life....especially Madeleine and Rhoda and Natalie. But rest assured, the men don't get away scot free either. And I said I was done...guess not. Slote is even more of a tragic case in the books. We like him, we root for him, but the poor guy just simply cannot shake Natalie Jastrow. She's in his marrow. He tries to get over her, and he can't. And even when he tries to see other women, Natalie and Aaron's situation KEEPS him involved, so he's constantly confronted with this woman who he can't have when he'd rather be 10,000 years away from her. He tries everything to get over her, but.... Poor guy. :(
Wow, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on the books and miniseries! Your comments further encourage me to read the books. I'm intrigued to hear that they go into even more detail about the characters. As much as I enjoy the history and all the heavily-researched war details, it's the characters that make it feel more personal. I'm surprised to find out that Armin von Roon isn't actually a present character. I thought he functioned so well both as someone on the inside with Hitler and as someone from Berlin for Pug to strike up a friendship with. I enjoyed his interactions with Pug a lot. Too bad those uploads have been removed. I was able to get all the episodes on dvd from my library, but not everybody has that opportunity. And the timing is unfortunate, as I imagine in light of Wouk's recent death others like you might have been interested in checking it out, either for the first time or for a repeat viewing. Anyway, I enjoyed reading your very interesting comments--again, thanks for sharing them!
I borrowed WoW from my local library and am almost through it. I learned about WaR from the bonus features on the WoW and came to YT seeking info on both. I’m delighted to have found your wonderful review! Ali McGraw’s portrayal of Natalie bothered me too (her acting hadn’t change much from how she played her role in “Love Story”). WoW ran night after night and was a very big deal. I remember watching it with my parents (my dad was a huge fan of R Mitchum and my mom really liked Polly Bergan)....I was twenty years old and Jan M V was a big draw for me. WaR ran one night per week from November of ‘88 to the Spring of ‘89 but I had moved out on my own by then and didn’t watch it. I’m happy to see the WaR is on YT. My library doesn’t have it and the DVD set costs hundreds of dollars for Amazon. Too rich for my blood! PS. I always pay attention to the costuming in period pieces. Most of the costumes were good but Ali McGraw’s character didn’t look era-appropriate. Very confusing why she was dressed as she was....basically in plain, late 70’s, early 80’s attire. Most of the characters’ hairstyles were 80’s-appropriate, not at all from the WWII era.
I'm just watching WOW and WAR now in 2020 during the Pandemic. It's a moving and interesting story that has built up since Ep 1 and onward. I'm glad that they made some cast changes as stated below. I wish that versatile Barry Morse (LT. Gerard of TV's THE FUGITIVE) didn't have more of a part in this. But he is the reason why I'm watching this.
I saw both series. Your comments about the holocaust scenes in both movies are spot on. In one key scene of Episode 11 of War and Remembrance (yeah that episode, yeah that scene) I swore I stopped breathing until it was over! It was horrific yet riveting at the same time. Curtis shot horror films before doing these movies. He knew what he was doing. By the way did you know the little girl with the flowers in the Auschwitz scene in Episode 2 was the inspiration for the girl in the pink dress in Schindler's List?
Nice review of both miniseries. It’s better to feel emotions, even sadness, than to be dead emotionally inside. So consider yourself fortunate. There were certainly some good tv miniseries from the 1970s and 80s. I’ve seen one called Masada starring Peter O’Toole and Barbara Carrera. You might find it interesting.
Jerome Weiselberry You May or May not find Masada to be all that compelling, but the music by Jerry Goldsmith was so good that the soundtrack was released as a record album and it sold very well: ruclips.net/video/M0gd2WkQYPQ/видео.html
Hi, I saw these series as a kid when they aired in the 80-ies, and they ate me.... when War and remembrance aired, th Winds of war was re-broadcasted so there was literally a whole summer filled with the series, aired Tuesdays and Thursdays, I believe. I was glued at the screen every time. This summer I have re-lived this experience, and it is interesting to watch it with adult eyes. Now living in the German speaking world, I can in a way understand how a figure like Hitler could rise, knowing from where the country came. Today's Germany is fortunately a totally different place, firmly cemented among the "good guys". But the national character is such that I am not surprised that it happened there, at that time... The female characters in the series are indeed not up to today's ideals. Here one can really see that the series is in fact almost 40 years old! There are no women in any kind of important positions, but that was most likely the case in the ww2 time... however, here they were even further reduced to the role of a mother, wife or mistress. Only the men were really important. I have wondered why this series hasn't been aired again afterwards, because it is indeed a very good piece of work. I now believe that the story telling, especially in the too extensive love stories, is too slow. And the women as by-figures would also hardly satisfy today's viewers. Indeed the music is epic, you may know who and what is shown on the screen by listening to the soundtrack 😄 This was in fact what I have remembered the most from all the 27 hours of watching !
Thing that bothered me the most is Brian dropping everything he's doing in life, following this chick around Europe in war times, all against his father's wishes, and the whole time she has a fionce' who he's well aware of and even hanging around smiling in the man's face. The shits absolutely crazy.
You asked how people had the time in the 80s to watch a 27 hour miniseries? Well first of all, I was too young (I turned 5 that year) when Winds of War came out to have clear memories of other people's situations when it was airing, but I DO remember more from when War & Remembrance came out, and like others mentioned, back then, there was no smartphones, tablets, or any Internet really (I mean, it was likely there in some form or other with techies and computer nerds, but it was extremely limited and very slow over analog, land-line telephone dialup connections, so forget about video streaming services like Netflix and Hulu!). In other words, life was not like today, when there are not only the distractions of hundreds of TV and video streaming channels, but also the Internet, and millions of websites, as well as social media. Not to mention, people today seem to be working MUCH longer hours and/or working MORE jobs to make ends meet, which is why you probably have the mindset of not understanding how people could sit through a 27 hour miniseries even when it was spread out over multiple days (actually multiple days, weeks and months) But in those days, TV was usually limited to the 3 main broadcast channels of ABC, NBC and CBS, or cable TV in some cases (if one was an adult, able & willing to spend for cable, or was a kid who had parents who were able & willing to pay for cable...........I was in the 2nd group, and though my dad is NOT a big TV watcher and we never had any of the "premium" channels [like HBO] packages, he was & is a HUGE politics junkie and wanted to get CNN and other news channels pretty much as soon as they came into existence & were available in our area so we got cable pretty early on) and movies were limited to seeing the handful or so movies that were shown at a time in the theaters every few months, or once VCRs became common, buying VHS tapes, or going to Blockbuster Video or other video stores or in some cases, the local public library, and renting a movie (or two) for a 2-3 night period before it was due and had to be returned to avoid penalty fees. Which is why in those days, when epic miniseries like Holocaust (an EXCELLENT 1978 miniseries with Meryl Streep), Roots, Winds of War, and War and Remembrance came on TV, people made time (and for those who weren't able to watch it when it was airing because they were working or whatever, and had VCRs, they just recorded it on VHS tapes to watch at a more convenient time) in the evenings to watch it. Because UNLIKE going to a movie theater, or driving down to Blockbuster to rent some videos, it was a cheap (actually FREE) way to watch a movie, right from the comfort of your own home without having to leave your couch. So people came home in the evenings, assuming they were not working a night shift (and if they did, and they had a VCR and was interested in seeing it, they would tape it) and after dinner, they would all veg out together in front of the television, watching a part of the miniseries until they went to bed. I remember this pretty clearly for War and Remembrance, though like I said, I was pretty young for Winds of War to remember if my parents even watched it, let alone anything else. But I do remember seeing snippets of War and Remembrance when it was airing while reading or playing with my brother in the same room, and most vividly, I remember that when the Holocaust scenes were about to air, my mom specifically sent me and my brother to bed, correctly thinking that we were too young (I was 9-10 and my brother was 2 years younger) and it would be too graphic and scary for us to see, even just being in the room but not actively watching. However, although my brother dutifully went to bed, I snuck back downstairs a few minutes later and stood in the shadows where I could see the TV, but my mom couldn't see me, and I saw those scenes and although a part of me wishes I had listened to my mom and gone to bed as told, another part of me is glad I snuck back downstairs. Because seeing those graphic scenes at such a relatively young age, sparked a lifelong interest in the Holocaust and just like you said that you don't actively seek out Holocaust movies, I'm the opposite. In fact, most of my watchlist on Netflix, and Amazon is either Holocaust related films, or Hindi movies (I am of Indian descent) though at times I do get "burned out" about the Holocaust. Because its just so heartbreaking and depressing knowing that MILLIONS, even TENS of millions (counting ALL the military members and civilians killed overall) were killed in the Holocaust and World War II, and ultimately, no matter how many movies are made, and no many how many books are written, NONE of it is going to bring any of them back or allow the contributions (like maybe cures for cancer and AIDS, or bringing world peace) that all these lost lives could have made to the world to happen! :(
Well, I'm glad we agree on Leslie Slote! :) I think the Byron actor swap was the most difficult one to get used to. I was enjoying seeing Jan Michael Vincent's portrayal of the character change with the events of the final episodes of TWoW. It would have been interesting to see that maturation process continue, but instead it was like starting over with someone new and unknown.
Winds of War and War and Remembrance -yay! there are certain subjects I also try to avoid fearful of the weight it may put on me, being an empathetic person can cause overwhelming sadness especially if it's a subject you're familiar with, we get you, no idea how audiences watched this when it aired, that is a lot of hours, after the first episode I had to check the run time, then checked the rest of the episodes run time, it confused me, thought this can't be right, it was! I really enjoyed these series with pretty much the same complaints, pot O' Puck🍀 experienced everything and knew everyone, some of the ladies, particularly MacGraw are, irritating. Slote was also my favourite character, it was his defence of the Jewish passengers, he was righteous while being frightened and believable, he also remained a steady friend to the possibly undeserving Natalie, she was irritating lol, Seymour was an improvement, I would absolutely watch a series of Bellamy's Rosevelt, The final solution episodes were very emotional, it was tough, but I too am glad I watched it, this series inspired me to watch another adaptation Civil War set miniseries North and South, it has some of the same issues as Winds of War but I kinda liked it, wish these type of U.S. miniseries were still being made today, luckily the BBC are still at it. You're the best, ~ thank you M.S. Weiselberry ~
I don't know if she had the acting chops for that happens in "War and Remembrance". In any event, both she and Jan Michael Vincent were much too old for their roles by 1989.
I read WoW and WaR when I was 15-6, mainly because of constant harassment from a teacher I respected. It truly is an epic work and once you’re invested in the characters it’s actually an easy read. I haven’t watched the miniseries but the exposition in the novels will (probably) explain the actions and motivations of the female characters better - it’s Leslie who initially treats Natalie horribly.
Excellent breakdown of the series. It's a bit dated now and the books are superior. I've read them twice, and just gave the audio books to my dad as well as the miniseries. His eyes are bad enough from his diabetes that reading is difficult, so he's listening to the books every day. The only meaningful change they made in the series from the books was one I liked, which was changing the character of General Von Roon. In the books, he's a Nazi apologist, writing war books accusing the British of war crimes while excusing everything by the Germans, trying to save his reputation and that of Germany. I much preferred the one from the film, who developed a friendship with Henry and who put down his glass on the Bremen when it came time to toast Hitler.
War and Remembrance was the first time television tried to depict the Holocaust, and it was clear they did their homework what with the Einsatzgruppen, the ghettos, and of course the gas chambers. The book actually puts you inside the mind of the German in charge, so that was hard. I have a friend here in the Indianapolis area who was a resident at the Family camp at Theresienstadt when he was a kid, so that's accurate as well. He suffered greatly, but benefited from the Nazis desire to put up a good front for the Red Cross. There's a dvd of his ordeal called Misa's Fugue should you want to watch it.
@@Weiselberry Awesome. My best friend is the only other person I've managed to get to read the books, so I'd love to hear your thoughts. I particularly appreciated how Wouk was able to maneuver Henry into positions where we were given appropriate perspectives of how World War II unfolded, though your criticism of the plausibility of this happening stands. Still, I didn't mind.
I did find that whole Pug/Pamela/Rhoda love triangle to be very jarring. After seeing the brutal journey to Auschwitz, the detailed selection process, thousands of innocent people just marching quietly into the gas chamber, and then seeing, in graphic details, all of them, including Aaron, suffocating to death on the gas, I really did not care to see Pamela and Rhoda's relationship woes about Pug.
I watched both series when they came out. I later read the books. I had reservations about them, but they were addictive. It was very strange - at the time, watching Ali McGraw was like watching myself; though I didn't in general think we looked alike, in this, we did. I don't remember all that much about the stories, but I remember being surprised that Polly Bergen's acting was one of the best things in both series. John Houseman was popular at the time because of The Paper Chase, both movie and series, so he was a familiar presence in the first series. Jane Seymour is certainly a better actor than McGraw, and the scenes at the end, particularly as the pieces of that family get haltingly put back together, were harrowing. It's pretty ambitious to watch both series back to back like that.
I was originally not even sure if we would watch W&R; I think I'd gotten the impression that TWoW covered the *entire* war, so W&R must be a post-war follow-up. But of course when we got to the end of the first part, it was a no-brainer that we had to watch W&R and find out what happened next. If it was just up to me, I probably would have taken a break for a few weeks, but my parents were eager to start W&R immediately. :)
And here I was thinking it was Ken Burns' "The War"! Actually, I had no idea what it was but considering the length you might have been better off with Ken Burns :P Also, if films about the Holocaust make you uncomfortable then you should best avoid "Shoah". There isn't any historical footage or cinematic recreations, rather its a collection of interviews from those who experienced the Holocaust first hand, but it's still intense and heartbreaking. Also it's just over nine and a half hours long, so yeah.... NOT. FUN.
Yes, I've heard about that one. On the one hand, I feel like if you don't see anything maybe it's not so bad. But on the other hand, these are people who actually lived it recounting their stories with all the nightmarish details. That might be even worse than anything Hollywood could try to recreate.
I love World War 2 history, especially the Russian Front and the Pacific War. The Babi Yar massacre was hard to watch and the scene inside the gas chamber as well.
Great review! I hope you have read the books by now. They are fantastic! I have read them both a few times. Herman Would did great work. First W O W I think Ali is a great actress, but she wasn't who I envisioned when I read the books. Jane Seymour fit the roll nicely. Though Robert mitchum was a little old for pug, and different physically than the book's description, he captured the character pug perfectly. You were right in saying the women characters weren't terribly likable. You were spot on about Polly Bergen's character. You are correct that it seems unlikely/unbelievable that so many events and opportunities would happen to one person, pug. Mr.Wouk has a very nice closing essay at the end of W A R. that explains his thinking. I think it's important to revisit the past, even the horrible parts. It's important that what happened in WWII is never forgotten, or reduced to a story in a history book. You are a smart young lady, I'm sure your parents are proud of you. I know if you were my kid, I would be. :-). Many blessings to you 🙏
Hi, good review. I pretty much agreed with you and just about everything you said. Except I guess I don’t mind the little touches of unrealism. I think a little unrealism can make a movie more interesting. And, I agreed with you about your favorite character, Leslie Slote. I, too, really grew to like Leslie and was really sorry to see him killed off. Most of the time I did not enjoy the pain- in -the neck character, Dr. Jastro, whose bad decisions continually got Natalie in trouble. But I did enjoy his transition to a devoted Jew and particularly his last “sermon “ on Job before they took them away, and seeing his character right to the very end. I thought Mr. Guildgud (sp?) portrayed him so well, as did the first actor. Was actually sorry to see series end. And I’m glad they showed every ounce of horrendous cruelty and the way it really was. I think more of the younger generation should be made to watch this show through their history classes! Plus: Polly Bergen deserve an Oscar for her portrayal of the complicated Rhoda.
I know exactly how you feel about holocaust films. When I was seven years old, I saw Roots for the first time. The middle passage scenes gave me nightmares.
I was in my late 20s and early 30s when these series came out. I liked the story overall but agree that the main women characters were annoying. I thought Pamela was nuts to fall for "Pug". I considered Mitchum's "Pug" too old, stiff, and staid for her, and certainly for me at the time. Now that I'm 65, Mitchum's "Pug" is still too old for me! And yes, I rolled my eyes at Pug always being at the center of things. Jane Seymour was a great improvement over Ally McGraw, but I got really tired of the character's bad decisions and slow decent into the horror of the Holocaust. I couldn't feel sorry for her, despite her dire situation. As to watching miniseries back in the day, you just did it, putting aside everything else if you could. I missed a few episodes here and there, but you could catch up, talking to friends, family, or coworkers. And we were warned about the graphic scenes in "War and Remembrance." I was less upset about those scenes back in the 1980s than you are now. But then there were other movies or tv shows that covered the Holocaust back then, including one with a young Meryl Streep.
Roosevelt did in fact have special trusted people write him from the corners of the Earth about what they saw and did... American presidents today likely do as well....that helps them get perspective .... It was a shame that Pugs daughter turned out to be a bad girl :) in the second series...
Thank you for this. My favourite character is Aaron Jastrow. Here is why. He had a lot of faith for his former student-Jastrow was a professor-but his student stabbed him in the back. When he was offered to lie for the Nazis by working with the Council of Elders, or the Prominents, he refused. Only after been tortured did he join. The man had principle and believed in people. He had faith that evil will be be defeated but sadly he overestimated some of those around him. I dislike Victor "Pug" Henry, for what you correctly pointed out that he was always at the right place at the right time. The character was too unrealistic. Jastrow was also unrealistic but at least it was not comical unlike Henry. I think the Hitler character could have worked better if there was a dimension of the "Downfall" Hitler character. The latter was also insane at times, but there was something disturbingly "normal" about the "Downfall" Hitler that the "War and Remembrance" Hitler lacked. And yes you are right about those three scenes in the TV series that were disgusting and immoral. Perhaps the TV series should have included Japanese war crimes. Maybe the latter could show Allied prisoners been executed, or Unit 731 "research". The Japanese war crimes were on a par to that of the Nazi war crimes. Thank you for the review. I am not sure if I want to purchase the TV series just yet. When RUclips removes the content, then I will buy them.
War and remembrance was far better. Ali McGraw couldn't act her way out of a paperbag . Jane Seymour who took McGraw's place was a definite upgrade . John Gielgud was amazing.
Going with old stuff before your time. Like other decades, the '80s seem to be hit & miss as far as miniseries go. Maybe your parents saw these 2 series when they first came out.
I think it was a first time for all three of us, although they probably heard about them when they originally aired. They were too occupied with work and a growing family at that time to sit down and watch a lengthy miniseries. :)
I have just finished watching The Winds of War and War and Remembrance for the second....no, maybe third....ah...I'm not sure....time. I read The Winds of War on an airplane going somewhere not long after it was published and I read the sequel sometime later but before either mini-series was produced. I enjoyed watching your video review and was struck by several observations that I have decided to write out here. My readings of history intensely focused on what one college course was called "Recent American History", being primarily from 1900 to 1960. Thus I have read a great deal about WWII, it's beginnings, results and legacies. I was raised a Christian and the Holocaust is particularly abhorrent to me maybe in part because my best friend in elementary and junior high school was Jewish (I was invited to be his special guest at his Bar Mitzvah). I "met" my mother's youngest brother when I was three months old. That was in 1944 and I don't remember it. He was a very young member of the Navy's SeaBees...a construction worker and immediately after he met me, he left for duty in the South Pacific. It is difficult to understand now I suppose, but that was the last time anyone in the family saw him. He died of Viral Leukemia on an island in Luzon. In those days there was no satellite telephone and mail was months reaching its destination. My grandmother had no idea what had happened to him until he had been dead about six months and didn't know HOW he died for several years. I mention this only because it appeared to me that your review of the mini-series was from the perspective of a person who has little real knowledge or understanding of the times that the books and films presented. In fact perhaps the films and books made it easier to gloss over the fact that the entire ordeal of WWII was one of existential struggle and fought in a place very, very removed from the people at home. It appeared to me that you had little understanding or appreciation for the way people lived in those years leading up to the war and beyond it. It was indeed a vastly different time from the one in which we live today in 2022. I don't mean to demean or insult, but merely to observe: it appears to me that you are very, very young and I tried to find out approximately how old you really are. (I failed). But I would guess early twenties perhaps. I also was curious about whether you have had any formal education after high school. It appears to me that you have not read much history of either the United States or Europe during the period as it would have helped your review much more had you some intellectual grounding in the reality of those times. The Holocaust scenes I found extremely difficult to watch although much of the "stock" footage I had seen before. It was uncomfortable and like you, I wanted to look away. However I couldn't almost as though I needed again to feel the revulsion of knowing the degree of inhumanity those events were. I feel the same revulsion when I read about how American manifest destiny slaughtered the American native population in the late 1800's. That's why War and Remembrance was important.
I’m sorry to hear about the loss of the uncle you barely met. I am well aware how difficult it can be for a mother to wait for some reassuring word from a loved one overseas, and I can imagine how heartbreaking it must have been, after all those months of silence, to get the sad news. I admit I was shocked by the turn your comment took after you initially stated you enjoyed my review. You didn’t elaborate on what you found lacking in my commentary, so I don’t know what I said or didn’t say that led you to make these broad (and false) assumptions. I’m not in my early twenties, nor was I when I made this video. I do have a bachelor’s degree, but that’s not something I ever broadcast because I don’t believe it should make any difference in how someone responds to me. And I’ve talked about dozens of WWII films and books (both fiction and non-fiction) on this channel, so I must beg to differ when you say I have no understanding or appreciation for what life was like during that time. There are people out there (young and old alike) who throw war terminology around and don’t actually have a clue what they’re talking about, but I sincerely hope I’m not one of them. If it’s just that my delivery isn’t sufficiently academic or you find my informality an ill fit for the topic, that’s a matter of taste and I can understand. My style isn’t for everyone, but there are plenty of other channels out there that fall along more erudite lines. My videos are personal and subjective. Moreover, I cover a lot of ground on this channel and have an unusual audience demographic. I don’t expect newcomers to know this, but back when I posted this video, it was probably sandwiched between an in-depth comparison of scenes from different Jane Eyre adaptations and the latest installment in my Godzilla review series. My tone typically varies as befits the topic, but regardless of what I happen to be discussing, I aim to be myself, knowing full well that aspects of my presentation may not appeal to everyone. While I’m flattered that you assumed I was that young (and wouldn’t it be nice if people still have that reaction when I hit 40, but my rapidly multiplying grays will probably prevent that), I certainly hope you’re not making judgments based purely on my perceived youth. Perhaps I should let the assumption that I’m a poorly educated whipper-snapper lie, as correcting it may very well lead you to think, “Ah, well, in that case you’re just an idiot.” But that’s a risk I guess I have to take in order to set the record straight on these points.
A really excellent review thank you. I'm in my 70s, and for some reason hadn't seen these two mini series in the 80s when they were broadcast. As I live in the UK, perhaps they were only shown in the USA? I too found the holocaust scenes unbearable to watch. How human beings could be treated in this way totally beggars belief. Unfortunately evil can also be found elsewhere as in Cambodia (Pol Pot) to name just one example. However, back to your review - I agree with just about everything you said. A very balanced synopsis.
yeah, I've seen the series a long time ago and it was one of the best TV series on WW2 but now that you mentioned it, it does strike me as odd that all principal female characters have issues with morality. was Wouk a hidden misogynist?
You did a great job here...I agree with most of it. Jane Seymour > Ali MacGraw. Absolutely. Ali was WAY too old to play Natalie in Winds of War - - big reason why. About 15 years too old...also too whiny. Same thing for Mitchum. The actor should have been around 50 or so...not 70ish.
Ali McGraw scenes were like the crazy girlfriend you break up with every day and can't seem to understand why is this woman still here, didn't I break up with you? Why are you still tormenting me on screen?
I finally read the books! Here are my thoughts: ruclips.net/video/QYPMpHXNg1I/видео.html
That was a wonderful and insightful review Miss J. My dad and I watched both of these mini-series when they were first broadcast. Dad was a fan of Wouk's books. I had just finished reading Toltoy's gigantic novel War and Peace in college and so I had a good idea of what Wouk was doing. I was also studying film making at that time and was mesmerized by Dan Curtis' achievement as producer-director. It is one of the greatest WWII television depictions (along with Band of Brothers and The Pacific).
WHY is this not on tv with some regularity?! There are a ton of old-movie channels; the History Channel and its variants/competitors are comfortable with historical fiction. AND YET, the last 3 decades, I have never seen this on TV until laying my hands on the DVDs. I have never seen this as a repeat on network TV or syndication. I was a teenager when this came out the first time, too young to really get it in Winds of War, and blown away by War and Remembrance. Some bigshot producer PLEASE PLEASE put this on tv instead of your next pawn-shop truck driver reality tv series.
ALSO, we are releasing entire series of other things all at once on Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.. Why not do the same with this? Do it. DO IT.
Both need a bluray release
Cable TV is a dying medium. We need to get these shows on streaming services.
I remember watching both series in the 80’s and I couldn’t wait to see the next episode when they ran. I so looked forward to each one.
People had time to watch because there was no social media and there were no cell phones so you didn't have cable taking over the world as it is now. Plus you didn't have 24 hour news broadcasts like we do now with CNN and others so you had people tuning in because they wanted to get rid of their mundane life and delve into a juicy series just like North and South and Shogun and so many amazing series that came on back then The Thornbirds was very long as well and it was very successful so it was a different time and I thank God that I was part of that time. I myself was a teenager at the time and with my family watched all these great mini series. They aired them usually on Sunday nights for two hours so they didn't overwhelm you. It was usually weekly for so many weeks. The work that the directors and writers did on the series to me was incredible in scope and beautifully portrayed on screen.
I was a senior in college with 3 roommates, one white, two black, when "Roots" premiered in 1976/7. That was not to be missed TV for our household. School work, tests, nothing got in the way of watching that series, no matter how hard it was to watch some scenes. At least I knew none of my ancestors had owned slaves, being New England Puritan abolitionists on both sides of my family and one ancestor died fighting for the Union under Grant. But still....
I was 23 when the Winds of War came out and 28 for War and Remembrance Robert Mitchum is the coolest guy ever on the screen and I actually preferred Steven berkoff as Hitler. Natalie and Aaron were both stubborn!
I agree with you on Robert mitchum
I thought the Hitler actors each worked perfectly in the production they were in. Taken together, it created an overall effect of a dictator completely losing whatever grip he once had.
"Winds of War" Natalie was irritating beyond description. "War and Remembrance" Natalie was well played. Her stupidity was toned way down. WOW and WAR are back on RUclips which is great, allowed me to skip Natalie scenes (and others) with ease.
@@illogicerr3769 you have to admit natalie is rapidly mugged by a horrible reality in war. In wow, there is still some hope pretty much through the the end.
Bruno Ganz in Downfall, you’ve probably seen the parodies on RUclips but his performance in the film is eerie.
CW -Thank you again for a great essay on a pair of fine mini-series. When you mentioned how great the main theme was, i instantly began humming it tho' i haven't heard it in decades. But...I haven't seen WaR because...
In the early 70's I became a serious student of history and *The Winds of War* scratched all the proper places, plus it was a superb family drama in the greatest setting of the 20th century. The Henry family together was the "Forrest Gump" of WWII. I absolutely gobbled the book [it's one of my two fav' novels] and was thrilled to learn that Wouk was in the process of a sequel. I had to wait a couple of years and when it was published, i borrowed *War and Remembrance* and began gobbling it up. But...
...there's a scene with Natalie that emotionally scarred me. I closed the book, put it down and had an internal debate on whether to go on. It was a close call but i finished the novel.
Years later when ABC broadcast the first mini-series I watched it with my father. While it had some casting flaws [Mitchum too old, McGraw can't act] I was happy with the adaptation. The actress playing Pamela was ideal.
Then 4 years later ABC broadcast WaR. It's been 35 years and i've *NEVER* considered watching it.
Your emotional section on the Nazi atrocities have validated the concern for my emotional health. Great writing and film can make characters seem like real relatives and friends. And it hurts to read/see them suffer.
Some day i hope to gather up the courage to view the 2nd series. Like you state in the review, if we can be traumatized by reading/watching, how much worse is it for the victims or their families.
Good review. Now i'll watch your review of the novels...
Brilliant soundtrack to this series as well. Whole series is a massive tribute to The Greatest Generation.
Watch out for a young Sharon Stone playing the wife of Warren Henry ie daughter in law of Pug and Roda
A series I had never forgotten. Brilliant.
I was 36 when I saw the first of them on ABC and nearly 43 when the second one concluded. I honestly can't remember if I read them during the 70's, probably did read both before the portrayals aired, or at least between the two airings and loved both books. Astonishing similarity between the historical narration sections and TV documentaries like "Victory at Sea." Great, tremendously well-cast, marvelously filmed and magnificently well-acted war-time saga of an amazingly well-wrought family! Very glad to have just finished binge viewing of "War and Remembrance" the last two days! Glad to have the time free for that...
1980s we recorded TV shows on the VCR:-)
I finally got my lady involved in WW2. War& Remembrance was epic & she was glued! She’s hooked! I’m a WW2 buff in case you hadn’t realized. Anyway it’s great to see a young lady talking about this subject. I’m a Vietnam Veteran but have always respected the Greatest Generation. 😎
Thank You Sir for your service to our country.
Thank You ❤️
I was 6 when "Winds of War" came out in '83 and about 11 when "War and Remembrance" came out in "88-89, but I knew nothing about these two series when they came out at the time. I was surfing RUclips last week when the series popped after watching "The Bunker" with Sir Anthony Hopkins. I was hooked immediately. Winds of War was very good and War an Remembrance was great. It took me a minute to get used to the cast changes but the new cast as you said owned the roles for themselves, especially the actors who played Natalie and Aaron. Great review.
I remember this series when it aired when I was a kid. Been interested in re-watching it. Thanks for the heartfelt review.
Just as with North and South I recorded the series and fast forwarded past the commercials.
Herman Wouk is a terrific writer, and I've just finished reading the two books for the fourth or fifth time. Incidentally, if you enjoy audiobooks, they are both excellent adn available on Audible. The two miniseries are faithful to their source material (in fact Dan Curtis' creed was when in doubt turn to the book). I love this series, and it's easy to get lost in both the television interpretations and novels. At the time of its production, War and Remembrance was the most expensive television production ever, and later Stephen King complained that the series was the ruin of the miniseries as ABC forced him to keep a few of his productions (The Stand, The Shining and Storm of the Century) to within reason. The ACTUAL ruin of the miniseries was that by 1990 people had a hell of a lot more choice when it came to television and the advertising dollars just weren't there. Now the miniseries has returned with a force on streaming services (although they aren't referred to as the miniseries). Also, it would be nice to see a high definition restoration of the pair.
I watched this about 7 years ago with my mother who is sadly no longer with us and we adored it. Just the theme song alone is awesome. I'm watching it over and it's just as good now as it was then
I just came across this video since I am (almost!) done reading "Winds of War' and only recently became aware that there was an 'event length' miniseries made from these books. I loved you review! You are so charming and humble, but your commentary is so well thought out. Thank you. Please keep up the good work! I am a happy new subscriber!
Thank you!! I'm so glad you enjoyed the review, and thanks for subscribing!
Wow! Super, great review. This young lady is the best movie reviewer I have ever seen in my entire life.
Aw, thank you!
I've been watching various RUclips reactors take on movies and TV shows for years now and this is the first time I have ever felt moved to give one a hug. I never saw this when it first came out and I had no inkling of what all was in it. Back in the 80s, not only did people go to theaters, but they treated miniseries like these as major theatrical events. Shogun is a bit clunky but overall, I definitely recommend it, it was made with the novelist James Clavell heavily involved, and I find him to be one of the more addictive authors of gigantic stories. I asked one man about whether he liked this and all he did was reel off statistics about how expensive it was and how much it involved. It sounded to me like he felt somehow OBLIGED to like it, because it was so big and serious, plus everyone else was watching it. There was a lot less variety back in the 80s -- less technology too, back then one had a sense of "appointment television" -- but having just three broadcast networks also lent America an odd sense of community. Nowadays it's tough to tell what's "big" anymore, and I live with an endless terror of "What's out there which may be really great but I'm missing out on it!?" One reason you are such a prize -- truly, you are -- is that you afford us a chance to take a break from today's madcap hustle-bustle of zillion dollar corporations competing for our eyeballs, to newly appreciate good work from generations past. Thank you very much, Rome, and owl be seeing you.
how can I see the eigth episod of WINDS OF WAR
Its on RUclips
I read the War and Rememberance book back in 1990. It seemed to follow the miniseries prity close but I remember the one and only fictional German General shareing his thoughts in his diery in the book and that wasn't in the miniseries, he even talked about the Battle of Midway
Wow, I remember this mini-series; I was very young but still remember it was good drama. Have you reviewed the 80s mini series Shogun?
No, I've never seen it.
Shogun yes. Another great mini-series
Jerome Weiselberry. I enjoyed your review. I agree with your sentiment for Leslie Slote. He an Pug Henry run neck and neck for my favorite character. 100% concur on Pamela Tudsberry being the prima for the female actresses. Concur also on Natalie Jastrow being annoying and idiotic. Her Uncle Aaron didn't help at all. The handwriting was on the wall and was plain to see. GET THE HELL OUT OF EUROPE. The scenes of the "processing" people for extermination was indeed tough to watch. Curtis was adamant with the studios that it needed to be scene as shot and not censored. A big THANK YOU to all of the extras that dug deep and stepped up to be filmed. As for there not being a whole lot of scenes from the Pacific I think that can be explained. FDR, Churchill and Stalin all agreed that Hitler needed to be defeated first. The "Silent Service," the U.S. Navy submarines, did an amazing job of reducing the Japanese Navy and merchant fleet with unrestricted submarine warfare. READ THE BOOKS. There are THREE OF THEM. They are a book within the books since the story is being told by General Armin von Roon as he writes his memoirs. I CAN SEE Pug being at many of these key events at the right time. There were people who got to see much of the in's and out's of what was going on. I finished an AMAZING BOOK last year called THE JERSEY BROTHERS: A MISSING NAVAL OFFICER IN THE PACIFIC AND HIS FAMILY'S QUEST TO BRING HIM HOME. The author, Sally Mott Freeman, is telling the story of her uncles. One of whom was on the staff of FDR and then went to the Enterprise. He did communicate with FDR from time to time. Amazing book. About the trauma of seeing things depicted, I can relate to that. I had a dear friend, Harry J. Mann M.D. who had been a bombardier on B-24 Liberator's during the war. He flew 30 missions over Europe and North Africa in the early days of the air war. He then went back to the states and was trained in B--29's and sent to India. From there he flew into China and bombed Japan. He was shot down and captured and endured a lot. When "Saving Private Ryan" was released there was an awful lot of discussion generated over the intensity of the first 25-30 minutes on Omaha Beach. Harry mentioned he was thinking about going to see it. My wife and I told him we were going to see it and we'd let him know if he should go or not. When the movie ended we looked at each other and we both said, "Harry doesn't need to see this." We told him our recommendation and he never saw it. He lived it.
I have watched it when it first came out in 1983 when I was living in Los Angeles and subsequently I watched both series over DVD a number of times And nowadays I am able to find the two mini series on RUclips how time have progressed and technology also progressed
I discovered this in 2011 when Netflix was still awesome. Bought both dvd sets for my parents.
I really appreciate the years of research Herman Wouk put into these works. It really does show. The scope and high level of detail are great. There were some great historical miniseries like I Claudius, North and South, Shogun, and Lonesome Dove, but these two might be my favorites. The story is haunting and deeply moving. Robert Mitchum was great even if he was a bit too old for the role. Jane Seymour should have been Natalie in both productions. Nothing against Ali McGraw, I just think Jane Seymour was better suited for the role. Also Ralph Bellamy was great as FDR. I really appreciate your review. I tend to follow both up with Judgment At Nuremberg as a spiritual sequel. I have also read that they are planning on remaking WOW which could be interesting. Certainly casting it would be fun. So many memorable characters.
Remake WOW? I don't believe any Hollywood director would go the lengths for authenticity that Dan Curtis went. I also don't think we have a Robert Mitchum around to play Pug!
Absolutely loved Victoria Tennant as Pamela.
How did people have the time? Easy. Many of us were NOT tied up with the internet or cell phones and many had lived during those times...and some, like when I was a young USAF airman at the time, had read the books, knew the history, and met people like Doolittle and Timbers. Now I challenge young people to watch it without going to computers uninterrupted. Oh, the reels of Hitlers complete speeches are out there, and you can see how charismatic he was to the German people.
Thank you for your overview of both mini series. I am going to re-watch "Winds of War" on youtube . I watched the original airing of it in 1983 when it debuted on abc TV. I was 26 years old back then, and loved history, not to mention my mom and dad (both gone now) were WWll
era young adults at the time. My dad joined the US Marine Corps in 1942 at 18 yrs old as soon as he got out of High School, just like so many did around the nation. Anyway, I'm now 63 years old, and want to refresh my knowledge of some of the events that occurred during the war time. I know Hollywood uses "creative license", but for the most part it is historically accurate. I love Robert Mitcham's work as an actor in general, but he is so grandfatherly in this series. I never saw "War and Remembrance, but I think I'll watch that as well.
Again, I'm glad I stumbled upon your channel, and will check in from time to time.
God Bless"
just binge watched the whole lot over the Christmas break........TV will never be made to this standard again.....ever.......
Love your Discripion on The Winds of War & War & Rememberence.
I saw them both, when they first premiered, on TV 📺 back in the 80s. Sad to see that a high host of actors & actresses are dead.
Keep up the good work Kid !
You gave a very thoughtful and fair review.
Winds of War was funded by Paramount studios. They balked at the final cost and left it to ABC network to fund War and Remembrance. That cost ABC $104 million ($250 million in 2023 dollars) to produce. They took a bath on it as the Nielsen ratings were not as high as had been anticipated during production.
There exists an audio recording of Hitler's normal speaking voice, which is available on RUclips. It was made during a meeting with Finnish leader Mannerheim, and is about tge onky known recording of Der Fuehrer's normal voice.
I was really surprised when you mentioned the running times for these respective miniseries! Knowing Dan Curtis was involved, and how many of his earlier works were very shoestring (in production costs, not overall quality), I wasn't expecting these miniseries to be so epic in scale!
*From Wikipedia:*
The Winds of War - The almost 15-hour-long series was shown by ABC in seven parts over seven evenings, between February 6 and February 13, 1983, and attracted an average of 80 million viewers per night.
The 962-page script contained 1785 scenes and 285 speaking parts.
The production involved 4,000 camera setups and shot a million feet of exposed film.
The estimated budget was very large for its time, $38 million ($120 million in 2017 dollars).[/Wikipedia]
Compared to 2018, entertainment choices were very limited back in the early '80s. No internet, cable tv was really just starting to come into the marketplace, and very few television choices were available yet. Many people had the three major network channels (ABC, NBC, and CBS), along with their local PBS affiliate...and _maybe_ one or two other static-laced "local" channels that they could barely pick up on their rabbit ears, when the night sky was just right.
We didn't have 16-screen multiplexes, nor were there ten new theatrical movies released _every_ weekend. Many films would play for six months to a year.
And the world just wasn't 24/7 like it is now. Not every corner of suburban real estate was loaded with Corporate American restaurants, convenience marts, and 24-hour grocery stores.
Life just kinda dialed down when the sun set, and since shift-working wasn't as prevalent then as it is now, people followed suit with that 9-5 sun up/sun down schedule. There was a lot of genuinely bad overly-formulaic primetime television in the '80s, but the tv miniseries was truly a special occasion! My mother could.not.wait for *Shogun* (1980) to come on each night, as an example. Miniseries were event television, like we rarely get anymore, with the possible exception of *Game of Thrones* .
That reported audience of 80 million people a night is impressive even to this day! Taking into account the obvious difference in population numbers from 1983 to 2019, those are Super Bowl viewership-level numbers, even in this era. I see that in '83, an estimated 81 million people tuned into the Super Bowl so, yeah, *The Winds of War* was right there, only it did it over seven nearly-consecutive evenings! Amazing!
*War and Remembrance* didn't fare as well:
*From Wikipedia:*
The War and Remembrance miniseries was originally intended to run on consecutive nights in 1989, but the 1988 Writers Guild of America strike caused ABC to move the first half, chapters I-VII, up to air in the fall of 1988, with the episodes no longer airing on consecutive nights. The miniseries underperformed ABC's ratings expectations, with the first chapter averaging an 18.6 Nielsen rating and a 29% viewer share. Dan Curtis blamed the lower ratings partly on the confusing airdates, saying in a 2002 interview that ABC "skipped Saturdays and Mondays, the viewers lost the thread, and they didn't even put up a sign saying 'To Be Continued' at the end of the first half." NBC also mocked ABC's airing strategy in a promo for their November sweeps programming, comparing their schedule of various regular series, television premieres of acquired films, the Vanna White telefilm Goddess of Love and a Comedy Store special against ABC's "eighteen hours of a war story that doesn't end".
Due to the lower than expected ratings for the first half, the second half, chapters VIII-XII (marketed by ABC as "The Final Chapter"), had several hours cut before airing. The second half was also mixed and aired in mono, instead of the stereo used on the first half. This was not a cost-cutting measure, but the result of a technical issue encountered with airing the stereo mix on the first half.
Capital Cities/ABC lost an estimated $30-$40 million on the production.[/Wikipedia]
That Wiki Dive Indulgence aside (and *Thank You* to anyone still with me at this point), this has been one of my favorite reviews of yours, Jerome. Your honesty and thoughtfulness in reporting _your_ experience with a particular work of art is why I keep coming back to this channel time and time again. I'm also amazed at how many works you've turned me on to, many of which I would have never given a second glance otherwise. On that note, *The Winds of War* and *War and Remembrance* are now on the ("Books First") list.
Yes, the idea of that many people tuning in to a program like this, not just once, but every night for seven consecutive nights is amazing to me. Seems like it would be impossible to achieve that now, what with all the different channels and shows and streaming services people have to choose from. BTW after looking up Shogun I asked my mom if she saw it, and she did! She said she watched the whole thing and enjoyed it. Oh, thank you!! This ended up being a challenging review to make for a few different reasons (some that are no doubt obvious), and I'm very grateful to hear that you enjoyed it so much. :)
The mini - series of the 1970s and 1980s were often major events. I made time to watch them. That's what other people did, too. By the mid-80s, VCRs were becoming more common, so there was the option of recording the shows, at least for some. There was another miniseries about the WW 2/ Holocaust back then, too. Meryl Streep was in it, probably one of her first major roles that I recall. Can't remember the name, off hand.
The Meryl Streep miniseries you are referring to is called "Holocaust"
Sorry but Jan Michael as Byron in WOW sounded like he was reading off of a cue card.
Sadly, I had to fast forward at the concentration annihilation scenes and the bombing scenes.
Steven Berkoff is a Britiish actor whose probably best known to 80s audiences for playing European villians. Him playing Hilter was no exception.
While his protrayl of Hilter as an oft ranting mad man may not fit with how Hilter truly conducted himself, I still find it as believable as it is formidable.
Both miniseries, The Winds of War, and War and Remembrances are excellent, even today that production looks good. But personally for me that show has some additional levels of values, back then in late '70ies production was mostly done in ex Yugoslavia, today's Croatia, to be more precise among other locations in Croatian capital Zagreb, the sets for some sceenes were done in close proximity of my neighborhood where I lived, so back then I was a 10 yr old kid, and I clearly remember setting up the sets and filming, and for me and my buddies that was a huge attraction, an old militaraya seen only on TV and cinema, cameras and a spot lights, and we kids was aware that this has to be something important, big and intersting, so we stick to film crew all the times.
At that time we were a kids highly influenced by both Hollywood WW2 movies and Yugoslav partisan WW2 movies, those are mostly spaghetti western kind if WW2 movies, so often we played a war games partisans vs. Germans, or cowboys vs. indians in the woods on slopes of Medvednica mountain. Regarding partisan vs. Germans we had available pretty authentic sceenery, e.g. abandoned WW2 bunkers and fortifications, and stuff like that, but we didn't had military gear, only plastic toyguns.
And then the Wind of War crew with all of that original military stuff seen only on TV we imagined to have come in to town, for us that was like a Disneyland come in to town. We didn't care much about Robert Mitchum, and rest of Hollywood celebrities.
It was like that:
Can I sit in that Kubelwagen for a while?
Can I took only one stahlhelm? Come on you have a plenty, you not gonna miss it, you have a plenty of cool stuff in here. Why are you so selfish?
Can I hold that Maschinen-pistole, please?
OK kid go away!
Pease Sir, leve me in here, because I'm making my own movie in my head, and mine is better then yours. How do you call it? Winds of War?
Back then I didn't know who Robert Mitchum is, but I clearly remember that I meet a guy. And because of that experience I bragged my parents to get 8mm camera, and later on I got it. Today I wish to had that camera while filming happened, that home movie would be a nice document, cause we were inside sets.
Ironically couple of years later the War and Remembrances show came to town, and all bunch of other WW2 Hollywood productions, but I grow older and I lost an interest.
But today when I watch that series it is a time capsule of childhood in Zagreb of my neighborhood.
My Mother and I watched The Winds of War when it was originally broadcast on television many years ago...I think I was in fourth grade! We did enjoy it, though from different angles: she was more interested in the family drama, while I was primarily invested in the military elements. Good memories.
The scene's you mentioned in War and Rememberance were extremely hard to watch, but it's important to remember history and my feeling is this movie series in total should be shown to high school students with permission from their parents of course. It's so important to remember our history, of the wars we were in and why. They need to learn about the Holocaust, what the Jewish people went through at the hands of the Nazi Regime and the evil behind it. And if possible let them speak to soldiers who fought in WW2 and to Holocaust survivors if any are still alive. And they also need to learn why something like this can never ever ever be allowed to happen to any group of people again, no matter their color, race or religion.
Great review, love your perspective on this series
Thank you!
Very much agreed with this brief review of an epic entertainment event. First, Natalie Jastrow was as detestable a character as I have ever experienced. Sadly, I don't believe the character was created to evoke such viewer feelings but the roller coaster ride of emotions the viewer had to endure can be attributed in large part to the flufffy unprofessional ineptitude of so- called actress, Ali MacGraw. Simply stated, MacGraw was awful. Second, the ongoing refusal of Natalie and Aaron Jastrow to flee danger was so mind-numbingly inane that I actually found myself pulling for the Nazis to just go ahead and send them East if only to get them out of the production once and for all. Anyway, a very nice review of an otherwise significant 1980s television event.
That Auschwitz bit in the penultimate episode was particularly harrowing. My own late maternal grandpa survived Auschwitz, and he was with those who were captured in 1944. He never talked about it. I only asked him about it once when I was eleven. He said, "I don't like to talk about sad things, it happened and the Nazis lose [sic] the war. I survived and I have a family and I'm happy."
It’s the most beautiful thing ever made those two series . I just finished it last night for the 20th time maybe .. every year I give it a round . I thought it was cool someone did a review of it .
Excellent review Jerome, as usual. I'm sure you're not alone in many of your sentiments...I saw Schindler's List upon its release in theaters and have never revisited it. And yet much of it remains seared into my memory. And yet, it's the favorite film of a friend of my who re-watches it on a yearly basis.I personally remember and honor the film, but do not need to see it again. Individual preferences.
While War and Remembrance is well known for its depiction of the Holocaust, I feel the 4-part 1978 miniseries Holocaust dealt with it a more straightforward and intensive manner. Directed by Marvin J. Chomsky, with an incredible cast including Meryl Streep, it put the Holocaust front and center, and was perhaps even more wrenching than Remembrance. Yes, hard to watch, but I remember it as a stunning piece of work for its time.
At least one critic at the time criticized Remembrance for its juxtaposition of the Holocaust with the more mundane, soap opera storylines involving the family characters back in the states. But I thought the juxtaposition was one of the more interesting aspects of the production. Usually, somewhere around the globe, there are people going through pure hell, and yet elsewhere, people dwell on comparatively trivial and petty concerns. It was a subtle commentary that I think was missed by many.
Yes, that's pretty much exactly how I feel about Schindler's List. Same goes for The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas: the story isn't told on the same epic scale, but it's no less gut-wrenching, a film whose ending so stunned and upset me that I'll never get over it. I'm marginally familiar with the Holocaust miniseries. I'm sure it'll be worth checking out eventually, but I suspect it will be a long time before I'm ready to take it on... I can definitely understand such criticism of War and Remembrance. There were times when it felt like the significance of the drama certain characters were going through paled in comparison to what other characters were facing, like a "the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world" kind of situation. But it's a relative thing: their suffering or heartache isn't any less painful for them because of the unknown horrors that people on the other side of the world are experiencing. I also think the show did a great job with its structure and the placement of commercial breaks and transitions to other characters so that major sequences could be kept intact. The section with Himmler's visit to Auschwitz lasted somewhere between an hour to an hour and a half, and there were no interruptions to take away from the intense emotional climax. It would have been discordant and tasteless if the show had cut into the build-up to switch to another character.
8:00, how did audiences deal with something this long in the 80’s? Simple answer, compared to now (2020) there were not the same number of choices.
More complex answer, in the 80s we had a lot more people who lived through the events portrayed in the films. Be they veterans or those on the home front.
Sitting down as a family and watching tv was a real thing. Sometimes even discussing it at dinner (having real conversations ) was also a thing.
Robert Mitchum was a real movie actor so having him act on the small screen was an event.
With so much readily available media content from different sources, social media. I do understand why a question would be asked.
Thank you for this review.
Also people actually read fiction novels before they were written for television
All three tv networks produced miniseries. When your competitors are limited to two other networks that are constantly looking for source material to produce ratings winning that could go as high as a 70 share like roots in 1978. Nothing on tv today is even close to that not even the superbowl
Do you know how to get a translation of the song sung after the Professor explained the story of Job which answered so many questions about Job
I don't know if you have reviewed Roots. There is other two miniseries I don't know if you're familiarized with , that is Blood Feud ( about the Kennedy brothers JFK and RFK trying to get Jimmy Hoffa to justice) and a French one, whose title is in that language, but in Spanish it was translated as Don't Kill the Rosenbergs, about the famous trial of this couple in the Cold War.
Very nice review, I very much agree with most of what you said, especially about getting a bit impatient sometimes with the fictional drama and wanting the show to get back to the war!
My cousin worked on war n remembrance as a researcher n flim editing
These books were awesome, having read the books first, I found the two TV renditions adequate, except for the Holocaust scenes towards the end which were staggeringly accurate. The world needs to remember what happened, lest it be repeated. I agree with most of your assessments of the various actors. Ali McGraw is as I imagined her when I read the books, but her acting is sub standard. Jane Seymour exceeded my expectations. J M Vincent was wooden and Hard Bochner was a big improvement. Robert Mitchum was wonderful, a man who acts with his eyes. READ THE BOOKS, they are superior literary works.
Have you gotten around to reading the books yet?
Embarrassingly, no, but The Winds of War is next on my list!
Then please let me warn you in advance: there are chapters written from the German perspective which read like dry history. If you're not into reading non-fiction, these chapters can really drag the narrative to a halt. Otherwise, I hope you enjoy them.
@@TheMacJew I don't read a ton of non-fiction, but a good deal of the non-fiction that I have read was WWII-related, so hopefully I won't be too flummoxed. Thanks for the heads-up!
Seth MacFarlane is remaking both as one big miniseries, probably for the peacock streaming service.
I actually think it might be time for a new version.
The key phrases from their announcement are (1) "retold through the current lens," and (2) "new script"...which to me means....no. Just no. A big, fat, huge no. There are no "current lens" changes that they will (undoubtedly) make that can possibly suit the already perfect story. The character mix is perfect. Herman Wouk took from 1962-1977 to research and write these books, and each TV miniseries took 3 years to make. He wrote the script for Winds of War and co-wrote W&R. Those scripts are perfect, the story is perfect, and whatever "current lens" changes they make will mess things up. There's no way you can possibly improve on a script written by the author himself. Also, filming these things was an odyssey in itself. That will never happen again, nor will such a huge budget be given to a miniseries again.
Luckily, Wouk's son has script approval. If he doesn't like what they're doing, it's not getting made.
I was in the middle of my 3rd watch of War and Remembrance (in honor of Herman Wouk's passing last week) when it was just deleted from RUclips. It must've been deleted today. Too bad. These are important programs. In terms of the watch first vs. read debate: I watched them first before reading. In my opinion, both programs are true to the books (which makes sense, Wouk wrote the screenplay for WoW and co-wrote it for W&R as you note...and he did it because of how much he disliked previous attempts to film his books).
The Winds of War is perhaps richer. It's one of the finest books I've ever read, period. War and Remembrance contains some things that the miniseries did not show (the Tehran conference and Pug's involvement, chiefly, and a few comedic moments). But unfortunately, the biggest reason for me reading the books, getting additional detail on the ENDING, left me wanting. The last 200 pages of W&R positively FLIES by. You can tell that Wouk cut a lot, probably under editorial pressure. He wraps everything in 20 pages...not kidding. And there is no additional detail to the ending that wasn't shown onscreen except one line about Natalie's Auschwitz experience and a line about Janice.
The biggest change is that in the miniseries, General Armin von Roon is a character. In the books, he's not. In the books, he's the one that provides the German view of the war, through Pug editing an English edition of his book. It's also through these chapters that Wouk provides an operational summary of the war's main events, "setting the scene" before going in with the characters. Roon's commentary is critiqued by Pug through editor's notes. I actually like him as a character (and friend to Pug) more than as an author writing from a Nuremburg prison cell. That was a positive change they made in adapting the books, I think.
In general, and as you'd expect, the books go into a lot more detail. You can almost smell the cigarette smoke, the alcohol, the Chanel No.5 and Old Spice wafting in the air as they take you through the time period. And it's ASTOUNDING how well Polly Bergen played Rhoda. It was as if she was ripped from the page. Watching the shows first made me imagine the other characters as their TV counterparts. Pug was Robert Mitchum, even though he's described differently. Pamela was blond and not brunette. Madeleine is a bit different, and it goes into more detail about her radio career (owing to Wouk's experiences in radio). And Natalie was Jane Seymour. Oh, and Werner Beck...the book gives him a few inner monologues that really inform his character. He fights with himself...knowing that what's happening is wrong, but still serving the regime anyway. He's still a villain, but the show makes him slightly more nefarious.
And one more edit, re: the characters -- The books go into more detail about Rhoda. She's still annoying, but her inner monologues show more of why she is this way. She's basically a social climber through and through, wondering if she's hitched her wagon to the right horse as Pug's career stalls. Still, she has qualities that are admirable, but in the end she's a 20 year old girl in a 50 year old's body who constantly wonders about her life choices. There's also Byron and Warren -- the shows cut out some of their unsavory aspects. The criticism about the women characters has been levelled at Wouk for years, but (perhaps because I'm male) I have no problem with it, since I've known women like these characters in my own life....especially Madeleine and Rhoda and Natalie. But rest assured, the men don't get away scot free either.
And I said I was done...guess not. Slote is even more of a tragic case in the books. We like him, we root for him, but the poor guy just simply cannot shake Natalie Jastrow. She's in his marrow. He tries to get over her, and he can't. And even when he tries to see other women, Natalie and Aaron's situation KEEPS him involved, so he's constantly confronted with this woman who he can't have when he'd rather be 10,000 years away from her. He tries everything to get over her, but.... Poor guy. :(
Wow, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on the books and miniseries! Your comments further encourage me to read the books. I'm intrigued to hear that they go into even more detail about the characters. As much as I enjoy the history and all the heavily-researched war details, it's the characters that make it feel more personal. I'm surprised to find out that Armin von Roon isn't actually a present character. I thought he functioned so well both as someone on the inside with Hitler and as someone from Berlin for Pug to strike up a friendship with. I enjoyed his interactions with Pug a lot. Too bad those uploads have been removed. I was able to get all the episodes on dvd from my library, but not everybody has that opportunity. And the timing is unfortunate, as I imagine in light of Wouk's recent death others like you might have been interested in checking it out, either for the first time or for a repeat viewing. Anyway, I enjoyed reading your very interesting comments--again, thanks for sharing them!
I like Abramovitz . Interestingly he was an old man in Winds of War but the actor in War and Remembrance and his role was exceptional.
I borrowed WoW from my local library and am almost through it. I learned about WaR from the bonus features on the WoW and came to YT seeking info on both. I’m delighted to have found your wonderful review! Ali McGraw’s portrayal of Natalie bothered me too (her acting hadn’t change much from how she played her role in “Love Story”). WoW ran night after night and was a very big deal. I remember watching it with my parents (my dad was a huge fan of R Mitchum and my mom really liked Polly Bergan)....I was twenty years old and Jan M V was a big draw for me. WaR ran one night per week from November of ‘88 to the Spring of ‘89 but I had moved out on my own by then and didn’t watch it. I’m happy to see the WaR is on YT. My library doesn’t have it and the DVD set costs hundreds of dollars for Amazon. Too rich for my blood!
PS. I always pay attention to the costuming in period pieces. Most of the costumes were good but Ali McGraw’s character didn’t look era-appropriate. Very confusing why she was dressed as she was....basically in plain, late 70’s, early 80’s attire. Most of the characters’ hairstyles were 80’s-appropriate, not at all from the WWII era.
Dear Jerome, as you were tearing up... so am I. It's understandable.
I'm just watching WOW and WAR now in 2020 during the Pandemic. It's a moving and interesting story that has built up since Ep 1 and onward. I'm glad that they made some cast changes as stated below. I wish that versatile Barry Morse (LT. Gerard of TV's THE FUGITIVE) didn't have more of a part in this. But he is the reason why I'm watching this.
I saw both series. Your comments about the holocaust scenes in both movies are spot on. In one key scene of Episode 11 of War and Remembrance (yeah that episode, yeah that scene) I swore I stopped breathing until it was over! It was horrific yet riveting at the same time. Curtis shot horror films before doing these movies. He knew what he was doing. By the way did you know the little girl with the flowers in the Auschwitz scene in Episode 2 was the inspiration for the girl in the pink dress in Schindler's List?
I pretty much joined so I cud subscribe to you and some fountain pen guru. I think ur stuff is swell kid😊
Thanks! :)
Nice review of both miniseries. It’s better to feel emotions, even sadness, than to be dead emotionally inside. So consider yourself fortunate.
There were certainly some good tv miniseries from the 1970s and 80s. I’ve seen one called Masada starring Peter O’Toole and Barbara Carrera. You might find it interesting.
Well said. :) I'm not familiar with that one; I'll have to look it up.
Jerome Weiselberry ruclips.net/video/hWl1HrmWhV0/видео.html
Jerome Weiselberry You May or May not find Masada to be all that compelling, but the music by Jerry Goldsmith was so good that the soundtrack was released as a record album and it sold very well: ruclips.net/video/M0gd2WkQYPQ/видео.html
If you want to learn more about world war 2 the great series narrated by Lawrence Olivier called The World at War is a must watch.
Hi, I saw these series as a kid when they aired in the 80-ies, and they ate me.... when War and remembrance aired, th Winds of war was re-broadcasted so there was literally a whole summer filled with the series, aired Tuesdays and Thursdays, I believe. I was glued at the screen every time. This summer I have re-lived this experience, and it is interesting to watch it with adult eyes. Now living in the German speaking world, I can in a way understand how a figure like Hitler could rise, knowing from where the country came. Today's Germany is fortunately a totally different place, firmly cemented among the "good guys". But the national character is such that I am not surprised that it happened there, at that time... The female characters in the series are indeed not up to today's ideals. Here one can really see that the series is in fact almost 40 years old! There are no women in any kind of important positions, but that was most likely the case in the ww2 time... however, here they were even further reduced to the role of a mother, wife or mistress. Only the men were really important. I have wondered why this series hasn't been aired again afterwards, because it is indeed a very good piece of work. I now believe that the story telling, especially in the too extensive love stories, is too slow. And the women as by-figures would also hardly satisfy today's viewers. Indeed the music is epic, you may know who and what is shown on the screen by listening to the soundtrack 😄 This was in fact what I have remembered the most from all the 27 hours of watching !
Thing that bothered me the most is Brian dropping everything he's doing in life, following this chick around Europe in war times, all against his father's wishes, and the whole time she has a fionce' who he's well aware of and even hanging around smiling in the man's face. The shits absolutely crazy.
You asked how people had the time in the 80s to watch a 27 hour miniseries?
Well first of all, I was too young (I turned 5 that year) when Winds of War came out to have clear memories of other people's situations when it was airing, but I DO remember more from when War & Remembrance came out, and like others mentioned, back then, there was no smartphones, tablets, or any Internet really (I mean, it was likely there in some form or other with techies and computer nerds, but it was extremely limited and very slow over analog, land-line telephone dialup connections, so forget about video streaming services like Netflix and Hulu!).
In other words, life was not like today, when there are not only the distractions of hundreds of TV and video streaming channels, but also the Internet, and millions of websites, as well as social media. Not to mention, people today seem to be working MUCH longer hours and/or working MORE jobs to make ends meet, which is why you probably have the mindset of not understanding how people could sit through a 27 hour miniseries even when it was spread out over multiple days (actually multiple days, weeks and months)
But in those days, TV was usually limited to the 3 main broadcast channels of ABC, NBC and CBS, or cable TV in some cases (if one was an adult, able & willing to spend for cable, or was a kid who had parents who were able & willing to pay for cable...........I was in the 2nd group, and though my dad is NOT a big TV watcher and we never had any of the "premium" channels [like HBO] packages, he was & is a HUGE politics junkie and wanted to get CNN and other news channels pretty much as soon as they came into existence & were available in our area so we got cable pretty early on) and movies were limited to seeing the handful or so movies that were shown at a time in the theaters every few months, or once VCRs became common, buying VHS tapes, or going to Blockbuster Video or other video stores or in some cases, the local public library, and renting a movie (or two) for a 2-3 night period before it was due and had to be returned to avoid penalty fees.
Which is why in those days, when epic miniseries like Holocaust (an EXCELLENT 1978 miniseries with Meryl Streep), Roots, Winds of War, and War and Remembrance came on TV, people made time (and for those who weren't able to watch it when it was airing because they were working or whatever, and had VCRs, they just recorded it on VHS tapes to watch at a more convenient time) in the evenings to watch it. Because UNLIKE going to a movie theater, or driving down to Blockbuster to rent some videos, it was a cheap (actually FREE) way to watch a movie, right from the comfort of your own home without having to leave your couch.
So people came home in the evenings, assuming they were not working a night shift (and if they did, and they had a VCR and was interested in seeing it, they would tape it) and after dinner, they would all veg out together in front of the television, watching a part of the miniseries until they went to bed.
I remember this pretty clearly for War and Remembrance, though like I said, I was pretty young for Winds of War to remember if my parents even watched it, let alone anything else. But I do remember seeing snippets of War and Remembrance when it was airing while reading or playing with my brother in the same room, and most vividly, I remember that when the Holocaust scenes were about to air, my mom specifically sent me and my brother to bed, correctly thinking that we were too young (I was 9-10 and my brother was 2 years younger) and it would be too graphic and scary for us to see, even just being in the room but not actively watching. However, although my brother dutifully went to bed, I snuck back downstairs a few minutes later and stood in the shadows where I could see the TV, but my mom couldn't see me, and I saw those scenes and although a part of me wishes I had listened to my mom and gone to bed as told, another part of me is glad I snuck back downstairs. Because seeing those graphic scenes at such a relatively young age, sparked a lifelong interest in the Holocaust and just like you said that you don't actively seek out Holocaust movies, I'm the opposite. In fact, most of my watchlist on Netflix, and Amazon is either Holocaust related films, or Hindi movies (I am of Indian descent) though at times I do get "burned out" about the Holocaust. Because its just so heartbreaking and depressing knowing that MILLIONS, even TENS of millions (counting ALL the military members and civilians killed overall) were killed in the Holocaust and World War II, and ultimately, no matter how many movies are made, and no many how many books are written, NONE of it is going to bring any of them back or allow the contributions (like maybe cures for cancer and AIDS, or bringing world peace) that all these lost lives could have made to the world to happen! :(
I loved Ali McGraw in The Winds Of War, I was sorry she didn’t return along with Jan Michael Vincent. I loved Leslie Slote!
Well, I'm glad we agree on Leslie Slote! :) I think the Byron actor swap was the most difficult one to get used to. I was enjoying seeing Jan Michael Vincent's portrayal of the character change with the events of the final episodes of TWoW. It would have been interesting to see that maturation process continue, but instead it was like starting over with someone new and unknown.
If you read the books first you would have appreciated Ali McGraw's performance.
Winds of War and War and Remembrance -yay! there are certain subjects I also try to avoid fearful of the weight it may put on me, being an empathetic person can cause overwhelming sadness especially if it's a subject you're familiar with, we get you, no idea how audiences watched this when it aired, that is a lot of hours, after the first episode I had to check the run time, then checked the rest of the episodes run time, it confused me, thought this can't be right, it was! I really enjoyed these series with pretty much the same complaints, pot O' Puck🍀 experienced everything and knew everyone, some of the ladies, particularly MacGraw are, irritating. Slote was also my favourite character, it was his defence of the Jewish passengers, he was righteous while being frightened and believable, he also remained a steady friend to the possibly undeserving Natalie, she was irritating lol, Seymour was an improvement, I would absolutely watch a series of Bellamy's Rosevelt, The final solution episodes were very emotional, it was tough, but I too am glad I watched it, this series inspired me to watch another adaptation Civil War set miniseries North and South, it has some of the same issues as Winds of War but I kinda liked it, wish these type of U.S. miniseries were still being made today, luckily the BBC are still at it. You're the best, ~ thank you M.S. Weiselberry ~
nobody liked her but i thought ali mcgraw was perfect as natalie jastrow should have kept her for war and remembrance also
I don't know if she had the acting chops for that happens in "War and Remembrance". In any event, both she and Jan Michael Vincent were much too old for their roles by 1989.
I read WoW and WaR when I was 15-6, mainly because of constant harassment from a teacher I respected.
It truly is an epic work and once you’re invested in the characters it’s actually an easy read.
I haven’t watched the miniseries but the exposition in the novels will (probably) explain the actions and motivations of the female characters better - it’s Leslie who initially treats Natalie horribly.
Excellent breakdown of the series. It's a bit dated now and the books are superior. I've read them twice, and just gave the audio books to my dad as well as the miniseries. His eyes are bad enough from his diabetes that reading is difficult, so he's listening to the books every day.
The only meaningful change they made in the series from the books was one I liked, which was changing the character of General Von Roon. In the books, he's a Nazi apologist, writing war books accusing the British of war crimes while excusing everything by the Germans, trying to save his reputation and that of Germany. I much preferred the one from the film, who developed a friendship with Henry and who put down his glass on the Bremen when it came time to toast Hitler.
War and Remembrance was the first time television tried to depict the Holocaust, and it was clear they did their homework what with the Einsatzgruppen, the ghettos, and of course the gas chambers. The book actually puts you inside the mind of the German in charge, so that was hard.
I have a friend here in the Indianapolis area who was a resident at the Family camp at Theresienstadt when he was a kid, so that's accurate as well. He suffered greatly, but benefited from the Nazis desire to put up a good front for the Red Cross. There's a dvd of his ordeal called Misa's Fugue should you want to watch it.
Was the pandemic enough to get you to read the books? I'm curious. I'd love to hear what you thought of them, if so.
I just so happen to be reading them right now! I plan to do a review when I've finished both books.
@@Weiselberry Awesome. My best friend is the only other person I've managed to get to read the books, so I'd love to hear your thoughts. I particularly appreciated how Wouk was able to maneuver Henry into positions where we were given appropriate perspectives of how World War II unfolded, though your criticism of the plausibility of this happening stands. Still, I didn't mind.
I did find that whole Pug/Pamela/Rhoda love triangle to be very jarring. After seeing the brutal journey to Auschwitz, the detailed selection process, thousands of innocent people just marching quietly into the gas chamber, and then seeing, in graphic details, all of them, including Aaron, suffocating to death on the gas, I really did not care to see Pamela and Rhoda's relationship woes about Pug.
Couldn’t agree more with pretty much everything you’ve touched on, you’re awesome!
I watched both series when they came out. I later read the books. I had reservations about them, but they were addictive. It was very strange - at the time, watching Ali McGraw was like watching myself; though I didn't in general think we looked alike, in this, we did. I don't remember all that much about the stories, but I remember being surprised that Polly Bergen's acting was one of the best things in both series. John Houseman was popular at the time because of The Paper Chase, both movie and series, so he was a familiar presence in the first series. Jane Seymour is certainly a better actor than McGraw, and the scenes at the end, particularly as the pieces of that family get haltingly put back together, were harrowing. It's pretty ambitious to watch both series back to back like that.
I was originally not even sure if we would watch W&R; I think I'd gotten the impression that TWoW covered the *entire* war, so W&R must be a post-war follow-up. But of course when we got to the end of the first part, it was a no-brainer that we had to watch W&R and find out what happened next. If it was just up to me, I probably would have taken a break for a few weeks, but my parents were eager to start W&R immediately. :)
I saw those when they 1st aired
And here I was thinking it was Ken Burns' "The War"! Actually, I had no idea what it was but considering the length you might have been better off with Ken Burns :P
Also, if films about the Holocaust make you uncomfortable then you should best avoid "Shoah". There isn't any historical footage or cinematic recreations, rather its a collection of interviews from those who experienced the Holocaust first hand, but it's still intense and heartbreaking. Also it's just over nine and a half hours long, so yeah.... NOT. FUN.
Yes, I've heard about that one. On the one hand, I feel like if you don't see anything maybe it's not so bad. But on the other hand, these are people who actually lived it recounting their stories with all the nightmarish details. That might be even worse than anything Hollywood could try to recreate.
I love World War 2 history, especially the Russian Front and the Pacific War. The Babi Yar massacre was hard to watch and the scene inside the gas chamber as well.
Thanks for the review, I'm watching now, however I chose to read the books first. funny I feel the same way about the girl characters in some fashion
Great review! I hope you have read the books by now. They are fantastic! I have read them both a few times. Herman Would did great work. First W O W I think Ali is a great actress, but she wasn't who I envisioned when I read the books. Jane Seymour fit the roll nicely. Though Robert mitchum was a little old for pug, and different physically than the book's description, he captured the character pug perfectly. You were right in saying the women characters weren't terribly likable. You were spot on about Polly Bergen's character. You are correct that it seems unlikely/unbelievable that so many events and opportunities would happen to one person, pug. Mr.Wouk has a very nice closing essay at the end of W A R. that explains his thinking. I think it's important to revisit the past, even the horrible parts. It's important that what happened in WWII is never forgotten, or reduced to a story in a history book. You are a smart young lady, I'm sure your parents are proud of you. I know if you were my kid, I would be. :-). Many blessings to you 🙏
Thank you so much! :) I still haven't gotten to read the books yet--hopefully that will happen soon!
Hi, good review. I pretty much agreed with you and just about everything you said. Except I guess I don’t mind the little touches of unrealism. I think a little unrealism can make a movie more interesting. And, I agreed with you about your favorite character, Leslie Slote. I, too, really grew to like Leslie and was really sorry to see him killed off. Most of the time I did not enjoy the pain- in -the neck character, Dr. Jastro, whose bad decisions continually got Natalie in trouble. But I did enjoy his transition to a devoted Jew and particularly his last “sermon “ on Job before they took them away, and seeing his character right to the very end. I thought Mr. Guildgud (sp?) portrayed him so well, as did the first actor. Was actually sorry to see series end. And I’m glad they showed every ounce of horrendous cruelty and the way it really was. I think more of the younger generation should be made to watch this show through their history classes! Plus: Polly Bergen deserve an Oscar for her portrayal of the complicated Rhoda.
I know exactly how you feel about holocaust films. When I was seven years old, I saw Roots for the first time. The middle passage scenes gave me nightmares.
I was in my late 20s and early 30s when these series came out. I liked the story overall but agree that the main women characters were annoying. I thought Pamela was nuts to fall for "Pug". I considered Mitchum's "Pug" too old, stiff, and staid for her, and certainly for me at the time. Now that I'm 65, Mitchum's "Pug" is still too old for me! And yes, I rolled my eyes at Pug always being at the center of things. Jane Seymour was a great improvement over Ally McGraw, but I got really tired of the character's bad decisions and slow decent into the horror of the Holocaust. I couldn't feel sorry for her, despite her dire situation. As to watching miniseries back in the day, you just did it, putting aside everything else if you could. I missed a few episodes here and there, but you could catch up, talking to friends, family, or coworkers. And we were warned about the graphic scenes in "War and Remembrance." I was less upset about those scenes back in the 1980s than you are now. But then there were other movies or tv shows that covered the Holocaust back then, including one with a young Meryl Streep.
I preferred Ali McGraw to Jane Seymour,and I was sorry not to see that they had changed the actor how played Byron
Master piece
Great movies, too bad it didn’t continue with some of the same cast.
Thank you for playing it😀
Roosevelt did in fact have special trusted people write him from the corners of the Earth about what they saw and did... American presidents today likely do as well....that helps them get perspective .... It was a shame that Pugs daughter turned out to be a bad girl :) in the second series...
SS, hecha por el actor Stelio Candelli, una revelación para mi
Thank you for this. My favourite character is Aaron Jastrow. Here is why. He had a lot of faith for his former student-Jastrow was a professor-but his student stabbed him in the back. When he was offered to lie for the Nazis by working with the Council of Elders, or the Prominents, he refused. Only after been tortured did he join. The man had principle and believed in people. He had faith that evil will be be defeated but sadly he overestimated some of those around him. I dislike Victor "Pug" Henry, for what you correctly pointed out that he was always at the right place at the right time. The character was too unrealistic. Jastrow was also unrealistic but at least it was not comical unlike Henry. I think the Hitler character could have worked better if there was a dimension of the "Downfall" Hitler character. The latter was also insane at times, but there was something disturbingly "normal" about the "Downfall" Hitler that the "War and Remembrance" Hitler lacked. And yes you are right about those three scenes in the TV series that were disgusting and immoral. Perhaps the TV series should have included Japanese war crimes. Maybe the latter could show Allied prisoners been executed, or Unit 731 "research". The Japanese war crimes were on a par to that of the Nazi war crimes. Thank you for the review. I am not sure if I want to purchase the TV series just yet. When RUclips removes the content, then I will buy them.
War and remembrance was far better. Ali McGraw couldn't act her way out of a paperbag . Jane Seymour who took McGraw's place was a definite upgrade .
John Gielgud was amazing.
Another great video Jerome
Thank you!
Ali McGraw was NOT asked to return. She was horrible!!! The second Aaron Jastrow was amazing !!!
Going with old stuff before your time. Like other decades, the '80s seem to be hit & miss as far as miniseries go.
Maybe your parents saw these 2 series when they first came out.
I think it was a first time for all three of us, although they probably heard about them when they originally aired. They were too occupied with work and a growing family at that time to sit down and watch a lengthy miniseries. :)
I have just finished watching The Winds of War and War and Remembrance for the second....no, maybe third....ah...I'm not sure....time. I read The Winds of War on an airplane going somewhere not long after it was published and I read the sequel sometime later but before either mini-series was produced. I enjoyed watching your video review and was struck by several observations that I have decided to write out here.
My readings of history intensely focused on what one college course was called "Recent American History", being primarily from 1900 to 1960. Thus I have read a great deal about WWII, it's beginnings, results and legacies. I was raised a Christian and the Holocaust is particularly abhorrent to me maybe in part because my best friend in elementary and junior high school was Jewish (I was invited to be his special guest at his Bar Mitzvah).
I "met" my mother's youngest brother when I was three months old. That was in 1944 and I don't remember it. He was a very young member of the Navy's SeaBees...a construction worker and immediately after he met me, he left for duty in the South Pacific. It is difficult to understand now I suppose, but that was the last time anyone in the family saw him. He died of Viral Leukemia on an island in Luzon. In those days there was no satellite telephone and mail was months reaching its destination. My grandmother had no idea what had happened to him until he had been dead about six months and didn't know HOW he died for several years.
I mention this only because it appeared to me that your review of the mini-series was from the perspective of a person who has little real knowledge or understanding of the times that the books and films presented. In fact perhaps the films and books made it easier to gloss over the fact that the entire ordeal of WWII was one of existential struggle and fought in a place very, very removed from the people at home.
It appeared to me that you had little understanding or appreciation for the way people lived in those years leading up to the war and beyond it. It was indeed a vastly different time from the one in which we live today in 2022. I don't mean to demean or insult, but merely to observe: it appears to me that you are very, very young and I tried to find out approximately how old you really are. (I failed). But I would guess early twenties perhaps. I also was curious about whether you have had any formal education after high school. It appears to me that you have not read much history of either the United States or Europe during the period as it would have helped your review much more had you some intellectual grounding in the reality of those times.
The Holocaust scenes I found extremely difficult to watch although much of the "stock" footage I had seen before. It was uncomfortable and like you, I wanted to look away. However I couldn't almost as though I needed again to feel the revulsion of knowing the degree of inhumanity those events were. I feel the same revulsion when I read about how American manifest destiny slaughtered the American native population in the late 1800's. That's why War and Remembrance was important.
I’m sorry to hear about the loss of the uncle you barely met. I am well aware how difficult it can be for a mother to wait for some reassuring word from a loved one overseas, and I can imagine how heartbreaking it must have been, after all those months of silence, to get the sad news.
I admit I was shocked by the turn your comment took after you initially stated you enjoyed my review. You didn’t elaborate on what you found lacking in my commentary, so I don’t know what I said or didn’t say that led you to make these broad (and false) assumptions. I’m not in my early twenties, nor was I when I made this video. I do have a bachelor’s degree, but that’s not something I ever broadcast because I don’t believe it should make any difference in how someone responds to me. And I’ve talked about dozens of WWII films and books (both fiction and non-fiction) on this channel, so I must beg to differ when you say I have no understanding or appreciation for what life was like during that time. There are people out there (young and old alike) who throw war terminology around and don’t actually have a clue what they’re talking about, but I sincerely hope I’m not one of them.
If it’s just that my delivery isn’t sufficiently academic or you find my informality an ill fit for the topic, that’s a matter of taste and I can understand. My style isn’t for everyone, but there are plenty of other channels out there that fall along more erudite lines. My videos are personal and subjective. Moreover, I cover a lot of ground on this channel and have an unusual audience demographic. I don’t expect newcomers to know this, but back when I posted this video, it was probably sandwiched between an in-depth comparison of scenes from different Jane Eyre adaptations and the latest installment in my Godzilla review series. My tone typically varies as befits the topic, but regardless of what I happen to be discussing, I aim to be myself, knowing full well that aspects of my presentation may not appeal to everyone.
While I’m flattered that you assumed I was that young (and wouldn’t it be nice if people still have that reaction when I hit 40, but my rapidly multiplying grays will probably prevent that), I certainly hope you’re not making judgments based purely on my perceived youth. Perhaps I should let the assumption that I’m a poorly educated whipper-snapper lie, as correcting it may very well lead you to think, “Ah, well, in that case you’re just an idiot.” But that’s a risk I guess I have to take in order to set the record straight on these points.
A really excellent review thank you. I'm in my 70s, and for some reason hadn't seen these two mini series in the 80s when they were broadcast. As I live in the UK, perhaps they were only shown in the USA? I too found the holocaust scenes unbearable to watch. How human beings could be treated in this way totally beggars belief. Unfortunately evil can also be found elsewhere as in Cambodia (Pol Pot) to name just one example. However, back to your review - I agree with just about everything you said. A very balanced synopsis.
Thank you!
yeah, I've seen the series a long time ago and it was one of the best TV series on WW2
but now that you mentioned it, it does strike me as odd that all principal female characters have issues with morality. was Wouk a hidden misogynist?
You did a great job here...I agree with most of it. Jane Seymour > Ali MacGraw. Absolutely. Ali was WAY too old to play Natalie in Winds of War - - big reason why. About 15 years too old...also too whiny. Same thing for Mitchum. The actor should have been around 50 or so...not 70ish.
You should be proud about being emotional at the Holocaust scenes it means your a decent Human Being 💕
Ali McGraw scenes were like the crazy girlfriend you break up with every day and can't seem to understand why is this woman still here, didn't I break up with you? Why are you still tormenting me on screen?
I agree Leslie is a good dude, but this guy Hitler was a real jerk!!!
Gee, ya think?? 🙄🙄