Why tonewoods do not impact tone on electric guitars
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- Опубликовано: 15 ноя 2018
- That's right. The concept of tonewoods as applied to solidbody electric guitars is a myth. I explain how the original concept of tonewoods as applied to acoustic guitars is taken out of context and used to infer that the choice of wood for a solid body guitar actually matters.
Please share this video with someone you love, who still believes in the fallacy of electric guitar tonewoods.
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Thanks. Good stuff Mon. Its not that "the wood" or material of an electric guitar doesn't make a difference ... just that it need not be tone wood ....to get where ya wanna go with the axe's tonal potential. I get it.
It's well documented that Leo Fender ultimately chose Swamp Ash and Alder as the body woods for his guitars because they were cheap, readily available, not too heavy, and easy to work. (They didn't have CNC machines back then.)
In addition, if the strings come into contact with the wood, the wood is much more likely to dissipate the sound than enhance it, It may improve the sustain, but sustain is not tone. Of course, I'm referring to electric guitars.
The other thing that bugs me about the idea of tonewoods in electric guitars is, even IF the concept were coherent with respect to electrics, wouldn't it be a miracle if the same woods that sounded good on an acoustic were the same ones that sounded good on an electric? Hell, why even wood at all? If you have a theory of tone "stuff" as it applies to electric guitars, why wouldn't it be tone formica, or tone compressed sawdust?
The whole idea of tonewoods is clearly people mindlessly parroting the things they heard somebody else say, and here we are.
iamamish
The whole concept of tonewoods regarding electric guitars isn't based on acoustic guitars in the first place. You can experience it first hand...
Tonewood is stupid as if it is the end all be all. I place my signal on multiple dirt pedals and compressors that this damn "wood tone" would be gone. I play in a band with banging drums, and multiple instruments into the mix, let alone the acoustics of the room and even the power source quality.
Idiot will blame the "wood". The only thing invariable is your SKILL and CHOPS.
@chief wiggums "When you pluck a guitar string, it doesn't create a tone, it creates hundreds of tones, microtones and harmonics. The construction of the instrument determines which of those are amplified and which are muffled."
Those tones and microtones you mention are of importance when you're playing an acoustic instrument. Pickups in an electric guitar, however, do _not_ work like a microphone. It's a completely different concept.
To produce sound, an electric guitar senses the vibrations of the strings _electronically_ and routes an electronic signal to an amplifier and speaker. The sensing occurs in a magnetic pickup.
The vibrating steel strings produce a vibration in the magnet's magnetic field and therefore a _vibrating current_ in the coil.
So the pickup does not pick up the actual sound of the strings.
@@MrClassicmetal I may suggest to reconsider this conclusion. The pickups detect the change in their magnetic field by... a string! What makes you think it’s not the „Sound“ of the String? It’s just interpreted via electric magnetic field changed and amplified by a combination of electric and acoustic interaction (magnet, membrane, speaker, headphones). Where in this line do you see the static/acoustic properties of the string not represented?
This would also be against every practical experience?! Overtones, false harmonics, percussive technique on instrument body, different string gauges, playing behind the nut... the list goes on. All this is very accurately detected within the electro magnetic pickup system!
@@Phlizz The pickups of an electric guitar are _not_ microphonic.
ruclips.net/video/RNsWbcWCt2U/видео.html
Put some nylon strings on an electric guitar and check it out for yourself.
You have saved me a lot money. I was hesitant about hot rodding and improving my Squier Affinity Stratocaster but I thought what's the use, my guitar isn't made from a "tonewood" but you have busted the myth and made me comfortable and confident with going ahead with my plans.
Honestly i upgraded a relatively cheap Stratocaster and it still does not sound like 1k guitar even though it's good.
@@lzep56 Two things:
A) Your setup sucks, or
B) You are not skilled enough
There are several pop songs that were recorded on squiers, and several touring musicians have used squiers or budget instruments.
@@arunkarthikma3121
People being dicks when people do not agree with them...
My setup is really good (guitars set by a luthier, good amps, etc.) and my skills are decent.
I also compare guitars I've played.
My €300 upgraded Strat-style guitar doesn't feel or sound as good as a quality Charvel, though it's close.
I also have a €500 LP copy that I've upgraded, which sounds pretty close to a standard LP but not exactly. I'm not into expensive guitars and prefer upgrading good ones, but an Epiphone LP won't match a Gibson standard, even with many improvements. Is the €2000 difference worth the minor audible difference though ? In my opinion, no.
@@lzep56 Sorry, I'm autistic. I was just being blunt. I didn't mean to insult you.
The high end Gibsons don't have a consistent sound. Pickups are extremely subjective past a certain point. I'd say the Fender noiseless pickups don't sound as good as my budget.
So your guitar probably sounds just fine.
@@lzep56 If your guitar doesn't feel as good as a Professional Strat, it's because of setup, finish, etc. Neck finish especially.
I honestly feel sorely disappointed when I try expensive Suhr or Fender guitars at a store. The setup simply isn't as good as my Pacifica(Stainless frets, oil-finished body, rounded fretboard edges, etc).
They do look better, but that's just G.A.S talking
"So I cut this electric guitar... just to make this point". Now that's dedication 😂
Great video!
Perfect video. I have always been skeptical of tonewoods in an electric guitar context. What I love most about this video is that the most obvious point, that pickups only detect magnetism and not acoustics, was no addressed, because you did not need to. The lack of an airchamber is more than enough to dismiss the hypothesis.
I am an electric player myself, I play an Ibanez RG550 which is made out of Basswood. They make a few claims about basswood being more resonant etc but that's not why I bought it, I just like the shape 😎
No, no, no, you have to get your ear right up near the guitar body, but then I suppose it’d still be drowned out by the strings and the amplifier… 😄
@@srubberalittle no... strings might pick up vibrations from "acoustics" and transfer that to the pickup, but pickups themselves do not.
The thing is that the strings may vibrate differently in different wood and that makes different kinds of sound. The pickups pickup the strings vibrations so to me it makes sense that the wood affect the sound even on a electric guitar.
The pickups don't have to pick up acoustics. And in fact, it's the resonation of strings that is directly affected. There's no such thing as needing to pick up something the pickups can not.
Hi Eric!
Great video. I am a retired mechanical engineer and newbie woodworker. I play ukulele a bit and built a solid wood ukulele that I use when I travel to keep my strumming and fretting skills sharp. It is also great for early AM practice when I don’t wish to awaken others as being solid wood with no pickups or amp it is quiet. I liked it and built a second with the help of a skilled woodworker that is much more attractive. My wood selection for these solid body ukuleles was oak for the first and walnut for the second. They sound pretty much alike as your video predicts. I am setting up to build acoustic (with resonant chamber) ukuleles and look forward to the tone wood exploration. Many thanks for your videos which are excellent.
K S
I used to be a big believer of tone woods until aristides use no wood at all with their guitars and the guitars that come from them are amazing and sound just like how any other electric guitar would👌 I just wonder how many death threats they get from other companies about this concept🤣
Thank you. You explained succinctly something I have long since suspected. Another youtube video in which a gentleman built a fine sounding electric guitar out of concrete helped too! But I find it tragic too that these increasingly rare woods which are vital to building acoustic instruments are delivered in bulk to electric guitar factories of companies who, for the sake of profit, encourage a sort of wood snobbery based on fantasy. Never mind.
Like killing a Rhino to make some magic dust medicine to help get an erection. It's sad.
The next electric guitar that I buy, I’m going to have made for me.
There will be no exotic wood types used, just Alder and Maple.
People seem to ignore how the laws of physics apply to anything that resonates or vibrates though. Of course 'concrete' wouldn't suddenly make the pick ups and strings to not work. The argument when it comes to tonewood is really not about whether or not a concrete body is possible. It didn't disprove anything.
@@PHeMoXthe argument is wether or not the wood is a noticeable difference, not if it’s works or not. Yeah, concrete doesn’t make the electronics suddenly not work, but that doesn’t change the fact that they still sound the same if set up the same with the same specs. Of course the relationship of the vibration to the body does effect some things, but I feel like that more of a sustain increase rather then a tonality one. It may not prove anything to you, but to us, it’s proves that we can get pretty much the same sound out of any body material or shape as long as certain more important variables are aligned. I work at a guitar shop and have built my own electric guitars and a bass, and while that doesn’t give me authority on the subject, I can say with confidence due to my experience and the amount of instruments that I’ve experimented with that ‘tone wood’ is the least important important variable when buying an electric guitar. I buy wood guitars because they look pretty, I really only notice the tonal difference if it’s something like a Strat vs les Paul or tele vs semi hollow, regardless of material. The pickups aren’t interacting with the vibration of the wood, the vibration of the wood just alters the amount of time that the strings resonate, but again that’s not ‘tone’ necessarily. The biggest difference I’ve felt is the difference between a rosewood/ebony fretboard vs maple, but I pretty much consider the majority of that difference to be the different finishing method for maple that makes it thicker and glossier. I 100% believe that different wood cuttings, even from the same tree, can and will sound different, we aren’t making a marimba, or even an acoustic guitar for that matter. There are some great tests out there, and if they mean nothing to you, that’s fine, but that’s willful ignorance. Don’t let Paul Reed Smith scam you out of tens of thousands of dollars for something you can get from anyone else for example lol
Good work, Eric. I liked especially the part how you talked about the shift in language. Wonderful, and informative.
This is absolutely correct. I have two '80s Charvette solidbody electrics. They're externally identical, but one was built in Japan and has a solid "tonewood" body - looks like alder or similar - the other was built in Korea and has a multiple-ply construction. The electronics are identical, and so is the tone. No difference whatsoever.
They don't have the same pickups. So they could easily have sounded different.
@@Prometheus4096 Its very hard to maje a difference from humbucker to humbucker, most will siund very similar to begin with, but everybody hears a difference between single coils and humbuckers.
@@cycomiles4225 No they won't, because many aftermarket pickup companies hand-wind their pickups, causing significant margins.
@@Prometheus4096 What companies?
@@cycomiles4225 Bare Knuckle, Mojo, Fralin, basically all of them except Fishman.
Hi, Eric, thanks for your videos. You have a great talent and puts so mutch energy on these content that makes this so clear and appealing. Just cant thank You enought! Keep on this great work!
Thank you!
Excellent video! You explain things very clearly and in plain language. I had to sub!
Anything that affects how the string resonates over the pickups will affect the tone. The wood choice does not affect the sound in the same way it will on acoustic guitar. However, things like sustain will be affected. So a more heavier dense wood guitar will cause the strings to reverberate different than a less dense wood. The neck wood also changes this reverberation of the strings over the pickup. This does affect how the guitar sounds and also how it plays, not because of the movement of air, but because the strings do not move the same exact way over the pickups. Think about it. When you pluck the string a certain way you get different tones, right? As the string vibrates over the pickup, the decay of the string, etc varies depending on the wood of the guitar. Granted, this is not the most noticeable factor in how the guitar sounds, but it does effect it. I have seen direct comparisons done and you hear a difference for example between a swamp ash body guitar and basswood body built with the same specs and same pickups. That being said, the pickups, strings, your amplifier and how you play are far more important factors. But I dont think its correct to say that the wood has no bearing on how the string reverberates over the pickups.
Matthew Bellisario agreed. Nothing exists in a vaccuum. The wood effects the string and the pickup articulately captures whatever the string is doing.
Which is the question I have for Eric. I understand and accept your explanation of an air pump mechanism. Is sustain considered a quality of tone, as I interpreted in your demonstration on bell tone quality?
I had a 60's Gibson melody maker that had some repairs along with a slab of (what I'm told) was willow joined to the back of it's mahogany, making it close to 2". This guitar sustained for days acoustically, and similarly amplified.
Or is it the fact that I like the qualities in an electric that the original builds tried to eliminate? This guitar got compliments from anyone that played it.
I agree. This is the answer
Excellent video. Very well presented and explained.
nice presentation. it's a never ending battle. i did all this in 2014 and the entire guitar community was at war because of it. i eventually removed all my videos on the subject simply because it served no purpose. right now i only have one video up on it.
Hey Will. Nice to see a familiar face here. Yes, I've seen that video. Actually, I'm one of your many subscribers. Yes, the debate becomes circular very quickly and I don't blame you for exiting. I made one follow up video to this and then decided that it's just a waste of my time to really engage with it. There's such a strong parallel to religion in the debate, it's kinda insane.
I feel so sorry for both of you. You are both guitar builders and know what you are talking about, and you are constantly harassed by quarter-wits who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. As to Eric's point about "misrepresentation" of tonewoods, see out the TEDx talk by Paul Reed Smith on RUclips for some full-on disingenuous nonsense. PRS makes good guitars and Paul must know better than the idiocy he spouts.
Hi guys! You know, some of us as electric guitar players are sick. We are losing ourselves when we are arguing about wood, boutique amps, pedals, etc. But we can miss one critical point. To play, to practice, to improve our playing style! This is what you guys dealing with.
yeah,, but they were good videos , I thought (as were all your clips). . . The one where you explained how many dumb mofos are out there, has never been more relevant , imo . . . thanks for all your efforts, dude.
Whatever the reason for taking down a video of half truths is a good one.
Great demo!
i have an older squire strat, sounded good. after a few years of neglect i took it apart to clean it up and refinish the body. imagine my suprise to find out it was made of plywood lol
Thank you for a great explanation!
verry interresting! what do you think about solid body guitars vs bodies with glued pieces?
Excellent explanation. You definitely have a point ! Also, made crystal clear a big mistake many, many guitarists do, even professionals. Thanks a lot !
Wonderful video!
Stiffness (compliance, rigidity ...) must matter. If your touch points (bridge and saddle, and whatever they are mounted on) are absorbing vibrations (and at what frequency they absorb vibrations) those vibrations will be quieter and die quicker than if those touch points were "perfect reflectors). Simple thought experiment - consider a balsa wood body vs solid steel body.
The area in which tonewood enthusiasts and crystal moms overlap.
A guitar made from balsa wood would fail in so many ways, I don't even want to think about it. ;-) And a solid steel body might open up a completely different can of worms, e.g. magnetic interference around the pickups, so let's just replace that with the ultimate 'tone metal' that bells are made of, bronze. But of course you're right, softer and less dense materials are those that just go 'thud' like in the video, and sometimes you want exactly that, as for example in a banjo, or maybe in an electric for a virtuoso shredder that doesn't want sustain (you'll add enough of that in your hi-gain signal chain anyway) so that the notes don't blend too much and get too muddy.
Eric, Thank you I have been a woodworker for 30+yrs, I just started to research building a tennor uke, I will look into the Man you mentioned to get a better understanding of guitars. The thing that blows my mind is all of the online stores that sell "Tone wood" for electric guitar making...I agree with you 100%.
I mean, acoustic physics disagree with EVERYTHING anyone who thinks wood type is irrelevant to tone but okay. It's okay to be tone-deaf. There's a reason you don't go buy a shitty ass 150 dollar factory-made guitar and it's not just because they're built sloppily because you can fix that. It's fucking wood quality. Physics quickly shuts anyone down who thinks wood doesn't affect tone. The whole argument is misframed and should be reframed as "is tonewood audibly different to the average player". You'd still have massive physics problems to overcome there, but it's at least more honest and not so anti-scientific. Here's a definitive answer from an actual acoustic physicist who's academically studied this subject. www.ultimate-guitar.com/articles/features/guitar_myths_explored_how_much_does_the_guitars_wood_affect_tone_and_what_are_the_physics_behind_it-95275
People mistake "tone" on electric solidbodies for the differing natural resonance and vibration that occurs from one guitar to another, but there's many factors other than the species of wood that makes them acoustically louder or more resonant. Moisture content, body/neck joint and thick or thin finish can make a solid body guitar seem dull and lifeless or acoustically vibrant and resonant. Surely that has to be attributed solely to the species of wood right!?! Wrong.
Your right it ALL matters. A good driver cant win with just talent alone the tires, aero, weight, power all matter every little bit batters in the end. There is a subtle difference that takes years of playing to hear. When i was a new player a guitar was a guitar to me but as my ear got better i could then hear a guitar that had intonation issues and i can now hear the difference in the wood.
Thanks very much for this.
Finally a video to complement the people who attach electric guitar pickups to different types of wood in order to show that the wood they are mounted on do not contribute to electric guitar tone.
In terms of your video, I just wanted to point out that acoustic instruments do not need a soundhole or other opening for the air/sound to escape from in order to generate tone.
My two sitars are cases in point. The top (tabli) is closed on the sitar, but very thin, like the top of an acoustic guitar, but different sitars are capable of producing markedly different tones. The air still move around inside the tumba (gourd, usually made from a pumpkin) that forms the 'body' of the sitar, but that moving air has not real means of escape from the tumba.
Thank you for this. THIS makes and has always made sense to me.
Exceptional video!
One of the best videos so far on the subject, and boy are there a lot of them. Your point about the shift in meaning is spot on. Addressing that shifted meaning, there have been experimentalists that showed pretty convincingly that there *is* a difference in sound, on an electric guitar, when you switch bodies but nothing else. (One guy rigged up a quick swap test rig to do this, it's not *perfectly* controlled but it didn't seem fatally flawed.) Now, it's not a BIG difference in sound (in comparison different fretboards seems huge, and that's a pretty tiny difference) but it's there. If you play distorted you'll never notice it but you can see how Les Paul would have. But all the talk about the tonewood 'resonating' is nonsense, a solid body doesn't resonate, but what it *can* do is exactly the opposite, it can dampen. And they do, clearly, this is the only explanation for there being any difference in tone at all, however small. They're dampening certain frequencies just a little more than others which is the only possible way they can affect the tone on a solid body electric. This is particularly interesting when you consider all the work on hardware that's focused single-mindedly on preventing this from happening, and the marketing doublespeak around it. Bridge (and other component) design is always focused on locking it all down as solidly as possible, marketing says this is 'to transmit the strings vibration to the tonewood' or some such rot but it's actually doing exactly the opposite - it's giving that string as stable of a base as possible - one that will NOT leak those vibrations into the body or anywhere else. After his early experimentation, Les Paul said something to the effect of he'd use a railroad tie for the body except it would be too heavy. This is why he liked thick mahogany for the body - not because it's a tonewood but just because it's dense and stiff and does a fairly good job of *not* absorbing vibration. Ever seen a guitar with a mahogany top? I never did, I suspect it wouldn't work very well, maybe I'm wrong though. Anyways, thanks for the video.
Exactly. To me this whole video is simply gatekeeping about how people should interpret the word tonewood. The electric guitar industry simply adopted that word.
The video shows that electric guitars don't have an air pump inside them, as he dissected one to show. Only complete morons need to watch this.
If the contactpoints of the vibrating strings would NOT allow to leak vibration into the woods(neck does 70%, body30%), that means they have to act as a dampener?
If they work as dampeners, how can a string vibrate freely?
There IS, and HAS to be a transmission of vibration to all the materials of the build!😊
You pointed out VERRY CORRECTLY, that different materials absorb different frequencies. That's what gives a certain voicing to the guitar. And in fact, that's it!! Not more, and not less!!
So, ALL materials of the construction HAVE TO HAVE an influence ( well, besides only the mountingscrews of the pockguard and the knobs of the pots, ) even the material of tuningknobs (mostly the weight) DO matter!
Final thing: does it matter as much as all are arguing?? NO!! It's quite minor, reffering making beautifull music😃😅😜✌️🎶
@@lone-wolf-1 If you mount on rubber the rubber itself will do the dampening, it's much 'damperer' than the body could ever be. This has been done in some cases, early fender basses used rubber bridge pieces to damp the strings to better mimic the pizzicato double bass sound current at the time.
Laughing Daffodils
So, you basically say that materials DO inpact the tone😃👍
Great video! Everything you said seems to make a lot of sense. I too believe that "tonewood" is not something to consider on an electric guitar. I think that what impacts the sound is the pickups, the scale lenght, the build quality, etc. I mean everything that will have an impact on the vibration of the string, which will then impact the magnetic field of the pickup, which will then send an electric signal to an amplifier. Tonewood on electric guitars seems more like some kind of "lobby". A kind of way to sell guitars at a higher price. Anyway, thanks again!
Electric guitars made with denser materials tend to have more sustain because they absorb less energy from the string. Change how much energy and, what frequencies are absorbed by the body you change how the string vibrates and, consequently what the pick-ups pick up. So to say that materials do not matter is incorrect but to think that you could apply the same rules to electric as acoustic is flawed thinking.
@@kamikazechimpanzee877 arguments like these only exist to make it more impactful when the truth comes out,,,, you need a refined instrument, and it will have tonewood in it's construction to work like it does. and I don't mean "someone likes it", I mean it will only work at all at the time that counts. (like,, scream right, get that note to work like you dreamed). A refined instrument just is a real thing, and it includes the materials in the equation.
@@tsmspace Is glass "refined" enough for you? ruclips.net/video/fQxxpBDkoRQ/видео.html
I agree. For instance, I have had at least 3 different acoustics with the LR Baggs Element pickup system....they all sounded the same when plugged in...yes my beloved fav Guild m-20 sounded just like a el cheapo ..lol...of course unplugged, that is a different story...I was also convinced that the maple neck on my Gibson Les Junior was making it bright and brittle....no it is the p90 pickup..lol..tried a humbucker one in a shop...lol...it is easy to fall for this when other guitar people go on and on about it. Well done, great presentation!!!
This is the most edifying video I have ever watched on the "tonewood debate". I learned quite a bit from this upload. Thank you!!!!
Brilliant explanation of the true context of the term. As a fretless bassist who never really engaged in this argument, I assumed the material choice for solid body instruments was about stiffness creating sustain. "Tonewood" in that context would mean something else completely. Resonance by minimizing the absorption of string vibration, and allowing sustain by not cancelling it out. I mean, who would make a solid guitar body out of spruce? Is the confusion because of the lazy adoption of the term, but really meaning the opposite, stiffness?
Thanks for this well thought out presentation. In a previous life, I built solid wood furniture for a living. This was during the time that Fender began using "Swamp Ash." I used it too, when a customer did not want to spend the money to buy more expensive materials like oak, walnut, or Northern ash; swap ash was the cheapest hardwood alternative, often neck-in-neck with basswood. I have often wondered how much the price figured into Fender's decisions.
100%. Leo was a penny pincher.
Same reason Gibson started using mahogany, it was cheap as chips back when they started.
@@Yosser70 Mahogany has been a choice wood for furniture and other decorative applications for centuries, and the trade in mahogany has always been and remains brisk. It's now considered by CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) to be a protected wood and accordingly, trade in it is controlled and limited.
Are you sure that mahogany was "cheap as chips" when Gibson began to use it? I don't think it has ever been so.
Maple, ash and alder have always been inexpensive and that is surely why Leo used them. Also, ash and alder are relatively soft (alder softer and both softer than mahogany) and don't quickly burn out saw blades.
@@Glicksman1 yeah big leaf mahogany has been under cites for 20 years but there’s loads of variations of mahogany, so it’s not exactly endangered, just monitored. Can’t find we’re I read about why Gibson used mahogany, it was definitely cheap back then but another reason was that it was very dense, so didn’t vibrate and colour the sound. We keep saying Gibson but it was obvious a Les paul design, and he wanted a solid body so it wouldn’t feedback like amplified acoustics did. He designed it to just pickup the sound of the strings, taking the body and neck out the equation. So in reality he wanted the exact opposite of tone wood lol
@@Yosser70 Yes. Les Paul understood that the wood of a solod body electric guitar had no influence on the sound. He relied on it when he used a pine 4x4 in "The Log" , clearly not expecting the wood to influence the sound. Just the opposite, as you said.
For instance, putting a flame maple cap on a mahogany slab makes for a nice appearance, (and a heavy guitar). That dense wood combination might affect decay and sustain to some extent (maybe), but those who think that the maple cap brightens the guitar's electric tone are barking up the wrong tree. :D
You nailed it--that makes total sense!
The enclosed air and sound hole of an acoustic guitar have a helm Holtz resonant frequency with a series of lesser amplitude overtones.
This resonance is useful in projecting the lower notes. Depending on the Q of the resonance this output usually has a bandwidth of about a minor third centred between F sharp and B flat
on the lowest E string. Not much else of any use comes out of the sound hole partly because the other frequencies from inside of the soundboard originate 180 degrees out of phase and would therefore cancel with the pressure waves eminating from the outside of the soundboard face. A practical demonstration of this would be the use of a feedback breaking bung used to block the sound hole. With the bung in place the guitar sounds essentially the same but without the lower frequencies. So the model of the guitar as "air pump" is incomplete.
The electric guitar is designed to avoid any substantial resonances so the influence of wood type is reduced.
To say that the wood properties of an electric guitar have no influence on the outputs harmonic recipe and attack/ decay is demonstrable nonsense / non science.
Just as some people develop a fantastic ability to play an instrument , the ability to hear an instrument is also a rare refined skill.
Of course you have the right to believe whatever you like but to spread half truths in a public information video should be tempered.
I concur, it took me years of playing before i could hear the difference. When i started playing i played with so much distortion to cover my sloppy playing i culdnt tune the guitar well and my ear was no developed enough to hear the difference. As i got better i used less and less distortion in my playing and i think this has helped me hear the differences now. My ear memory is better
Fantastic explanation.
That was very good but I have a follow up. Why do the strings on some solid bodies sustain longer than on others? Some claim a good tone wood is one that resonates with the strings to increase their sustain. A non- or poor tone wood absorbs the energy of the string and diminishes sustain. I don't know if that is the case but some guitars when not plugged in definitely ring out louder and longer than others. What do you think is the determining factor for that if not the wood? Is it just the nut and the bridge? The neck alone? Thoughts?
does the weight of the wood affect tone on electric?
Thanks for the video. Great to learn new stuff. The next question that seems obvious, but no one really asks it (I guess the heat of such a debate is usually so intense, tat no one ever gets to the point of a rational analysis :-D ) - if the wood does not affect the sound of the electric solid body guitar, then why different guitars sound so different? Would be nice to see a full breakdown and scientific analysis/comparison of why various electric guitars sound as they sound.
The thing is that the strings may vibrate differently in different wood and that makes different kinds of sound. The pickups pickup the strings vibrations so to me it makes sense that the wood affect the sound even on a electric guitar.
Hey Eric, any chance of a Black Friday discount on your online guitar building course?
Lol unfortunately I don't. But I'd love to have you in the course! There's still plenty of availability in 2019.
Oh you said "ONLINE" course... my comment about availability may seem confusing then. I thought you meant the Hands On course.
So to answer your question about the online course: There is still no black friday discount. However, there is a little trick you can use to get a discount. If you sign up for the email list at ericschaeferguitars.com you receive a discount code in your inbox for 20% off the online course. All the email list does is update you when these videos come out and you can unsubscribe at any time. I don't use the email list for any other purpose.
Hi Eric, excellent video. I completely understand the air pump analogy and actually thought of that myself many years ago but more in the sense of how an acoustic guitar is so similar to acoustic drums as I was learning the best mic positioning for the kind of drum sounds I like.
Both having a batter side and a resonant side and an air hole. Both are almost completely dependant up the woods used in their construction as to the sound save the choice of finish (both can be stained or laquered and wrapped for drums), strings/heads, bracing/hardware, picks/sticks sizes and material choices, but the starting point tone is the wood.
HOWEVER, with all that said do you maintain that a Strat, Tele, Les Paul, SG, Flying V, etc. fundamentally sound the way they do based on body shape and pick ups?
That the woods play no part in the guitars uniquely identifiable sound?
And mind you I'm talking guitar straight to an amp with out effects pedals and such, just a straight "clean" sound.
Would you say that the build style such as a through neck Firebird has more to do with the sustain than a bolt on neck of Strat or Tele and less to do about Mahogany as opposed to Alder or a Les Paul Mahog/Maple or Walnut bodies has nothing to do with it's unique sound and I'd get the same results if they were made with Spalted Swamp Ash?
If that's so, why have they never made them?
I'm not debating here, because I'm not on either side of the debate. I'm just simply and sincerely asking for better clarification of your position so I can get behind one side or the other.
I hope you get a second to respond sometime. Thanks again for your insight.
PATRICK- I can see you're sincerely seeking the truth and in the process of questioning your own beliefs about "tonewood" and solid electric guitars. As Eric said at the outset, this debate is a lot like politics or religion. Don't let it upset you, but you can mount your bridge, nut, tuners, pickups and strings to a tabletop, or the floor, or a pine 4x4 like Les Paul did on his "log" prototype as a testbed for pickup development, and as long as the mechanical connections are solid and resonant those components will not care about wood species or size and shape of the foundation structure as long as it's dense and solid enough to be sturdy snd stable. I saw a great demonstration where a typical solid body electric was baseline measured for pickup output and frequency response and also recorded for later 'aware' and 'blind' audible comparisons by groups of experienced players/listeners. Then parts of the guitar's wooden body were systematically cut off with a bandsaw in several stages until only enough wood remained to anchor the bridge, contain the pickups and connect with the neck. One group of listeners observed the parts being sawn off and knew why it was being done; the other never knew the guitar was being butchered but were simply asked if they could hear any significant difference between several different recordings of the same guitar's sound. This was to construct a valid experiment and control for possible 'observer bias.' The objective measurements and subjective listener tests were repeated for each removal stage of body wood. Eventually there was nothing left but the neck and enough wood to still contain the pickups and connect with the bridge anchorage. Results: No observable difference in volume or tone for the 'blind' control group; almost none of statistical significance for the 'aware' experimental group, suggesting we may listen at least a little bit with our eyes but the mean results were not much difference, if at all. Believe it or not. But you might reply, "what about semi or hollowbody electrics?" If you're playing electrically through an amp and speakers, the pickups don't care. The construction of those guitars only matters if you're miking, and/or to the extent that amplifier volume (which is pumping the air both inside and outside the guitar) is inducing string vibrations that are feeding back through the pickups. Be Free brother!
Everything I want to say, everytime this debate comes up.
THANK YOU now I'll just show em this video :)
Good luck with that, as this is about something different entirely than the debates are about. We know electric guitars don't have an air pump like acoustic guitars, that's not the point at all.
show this video too ahha ruclips.net/video/OLxE8iDWD_w/видео.html
I'm going up to bat.,,, this video is missing a LOT of concepts. Fair, the way that wood impacts the resonance of the guitar will change,,, and enough audio processing can eliminate the "benefits" of controlling the wood beyond the amount of sustain ,,,,,, but,,,, if you play different woods unplugged they sound different, and specifically what is happening is the string is affected by the "feedback and noise cancelling" effects of resonance, meaning that the specific shape of the strings vibration will be unique from guitar to guitar due to the wood used,,,, meaning, ,, , they produce different electrical signals through the pickups,,,, and once you want to have more interplay between your instruments resonance and your playing,, you will have to back down on the signal processing enough to make this unique spectrum audible. ,,, meaning the wood is going to matter, end of story.
@Tobias Reiner what I can put together in my mind, is that people mostly don't "understand" their tone very well,, and don't have experience with classical "good" tones to know where they are beneficial. For example great violins vs. cheap violins,,, if it's just the change in timbre, , then why is the expensive violin better??? well,,, you can't HEAR the cheap violin anywhere it matters to be heard,,, and guitar tone is also like this. The guitar just won't scream at the right time, it needs to resonate to make the notes what they need to be. but,, it's really true,, you don't need a refined instrument to "get that twangy like sound, and get that distortiony sound",,, but ,, you WILL need a refined instrument to have that twangy or grungy sound peak right at the right times,, it's just that it's kind of an advanced concept.
@@tsmspace well you struck out, they sound different because different strings different pick attack, acoustically different place maybe but I swear the earth isn't flat,swear to God,😁 even the pick you use makes a slight difference in tone,
This guy has it completely right and there is no other way to put it and he finally did it, debunked the tone wood myth in terms we all can agree with. There is no difference what wood the electric solid body guitar is made of. I made a concrete guitar, a plywood guitar with cheap Home Depot plywood, a plastic guitar out of plexiglass and used the same bridge, pups, strings, nut and tuners and I bet you could not tell me in a blind test which was which. We took 50 some odd guitar players and none of them got it right! It is like so many other things in life, they are all hype from the manufacturers to make you buy their products. I will stay on guitar things to start out. If there were a whole lot of great guitar players on stage at the same time like so many concerts or youtube videos out there, could you tell me what kind of wood each guitar was made of, what brand each guitar was, if they were made in China, Indonesia, USA or Japan, what brand of strings each one was using, what gauge strings they are playing, what brand of pickups each was using, are they single coil or humbucker, did he use coil splitting, if they are using a tube or solid state amp, what brand of picks they are using and what cable type or what brand of wireless system they have? No and it does not matter. I use whatever strings I can find on sale and believe me I am 66 yrs old and have been playing since I was 15 and I can't tell the difference in string brands at all. If they are 10's and nickel wound I bet you can't tell me what brand they are without looking at the ball ends. And then it is iffy. Just play the damn thing and stop buying into all the hype. Now when you buy an acoustic instrument of any kind, then the wood comes into play. Think bellows as the luthier here brought to light. If this still does not do it for you than take up knitting or some other craft. You will never get it or play before a crowd of 100 thousand or more as I have. Just play and stop spending your money chasing tone. Pickups, nuts, bridge saddles, strings, tone wood and tubes or solid state. You can adjust that with the tone knobs on your guitar, amp, EQ pedal, processor or at the final stage, at the mixer. Are there any other Bullet strings for Fender tremolos besides Fender Bullet strings? You know why? Cause it is all hype! Done!
I agree. At the end of the day guitar choice boils down to ONLY 5 THINGS (IMO)......... (Please note I'm talking electric solid body ONLY and NOT acoustic, or electro-acoustic guitars).
1) - Style:- Do you like the STYLE of it (NOT the MAKE but the STYLE). E.g. Stratocaster, Telecaster, SG, Les Paul...Etc
2) - Colour:- Simple - Do you like the colour?
3) - Playability:- Does it play easily without much effort, and does the action suit you, and does it buzz at certain frets or not etc....etc (This is purely setup, i.e. a properly setup Squire strat will play better than a badly setup American Fender, and the price difference between the two is opposite ends of the earth.......)
4) - Sound:- Does it sound good? (Bear in mind, you can simply change the pickups (and not much more) in a CHEAP guitar to make it sound like a VERY EXPENSIVE guitar.......)
5) - Make:- Basically, does your ego allow you to play in public with THAT name on the headstock in front of your listeners? or do you need to spend £4500 to make yourself happy that they think you have made the right choice, and you are a guitar GOD?????
MY MAIN POINT IS THIS:- YOU DON'T NEED A PARTICULAR ELECTRIC GUITAR JUST BECAUSE IT IS MADE FROM A CERTAIN WOOD, OR THE NAME ON THE HEADSTOCK IS WELL KNOWN, OR THE STYLE OF THE GUITAR IS POPULAR, OR IT IS MADE IN A CERTAIN COUNTRY..........Pretty much ANY electric guitar can be made to sound like the most expensive guitars on the planet by selecting the correct pickups / capacitors / hardware (which are relatively cheap), and making sure it is SETUP CORRECTLY. The ONLY thing that might put people off is the NAME on the headstock.......BUT THAT SHOULDN'T MATTER.
Old video so I don't know if you'll see this Eric.
First, thanks for the great explanation of how an acoustic guitar works.
I wish you had done a comparable explanation of how an electric guitar works. As is you didn't really show whether the body wood effects tone or not. An electric guitar produces a signal that the amplifier converts to sound so we have to evaluate if body wood can influence that signal, but you didn't do that.
The strings vibrate in the magnetic field of the pickup and induce a current in the pickup coils. That current is based on the movement of the strings relative to the pickup, so anything that affects their relative movement contributes to the sound. Vibration in the body will affect the relative movement between strings and pickup. If body wood influences how the guitar body vibrates it will affect the sound. The question is whether its enough to notice.
I'd love to see you (or anybody) address that question.
thank you!!!
Great explanation for something that should absolutely be common sense. I think the ultimate experiment would be to take two solid body guitars of different woods and somehow rig them to play in a vaccuum. Without any air movement it would be interesting to see if there was any effect on tone. I would think that would put the whole argument to rest.
Thank you
this video is SO GOOD.
All excellent points. I'm thinking with a solid body electric, the neck & fretboard have more to do with tone & sound than the rest of the body. The pickup(s) should be a constant if the same one is used, same with the bridge.
@Black Phillip All things being equal, a piece of wood with the same density sounds the same. Take Alder's average specs per the Wood Database, Poplar is virtually identical. across the board. What is constant, the neck we bolt to the body is maple with whatever fretboard it has. There are different species of pine that can be as relatively soft as Basswood or in a range that's even harder than Alder. The earliest Telecasters were made of pine, Alder happened later with Fender because it was more economical than pine was. It wasn't because one sounded better or worse. than another. The fact that nobody can tell the difference between 2 guitars for the body wood species, confirms that tonewood is a matter of knowing vs not knowing what the build was.
It makes a difference. I have a prs s2 McCarty and custom 24. Recently I bought a ce. There is a smoothness in the lo mids neither of the s2 have. I put the same scarlet and scourge pickups in two of the guitars. They are medium output pickups that don't color the tone.
The woods make a difference. Whether it is from filtering frequencies or absorbing energy and that effects your play they make a difference
I have some mixed feelings here. I think a concept was missed when comparing an air pocket membrane to a solid body. I agree with this until we plug the solid body in. The acoustic is using this membrane to amplify and color the air waves in a similar way to an amplifier. The solid body on the other hand does not need a membrane to color the tone because it has an amplifier. The "tone wood" in this case would take on a different purpose. There is a shared quality however that the string vibration needs to be amplified in some fashion, whether that's air vibration or the excitement of electrons. With all the different factors different woods can provide, I can agree that
without the requirement of acoustic amplification, the applied concept of tone woods is completely divorced from its original context as an air pump.
Very good video
Appreciate this! I am of the belief that the woods do make a difference, but I’ve been hearing more lately that it really doesn’t, so I found this quite interesting. I’m not really set in stone that it does, and after watching this, I’m definitely open to the fact that it doesn’t make as much of a difference as is marketed.
Would I right in assuming that the reason that you still believe that the woods make a difference is because that's what you have been taught to think by marketeers (as Eric explains here)? Why do still think that it still partly makes a difference? (btw, I'm not trying to be confrontational here, I'm more interested as to why Eric has only partly changed our outlook on it when what he's saying is more of a 'black or white' reasoning. Thanks in advance. 🙂
@@stuartmiller7419 I think you’re right I was mostly taking word of reviewers and sellers who give a/b sound demos that compare different woods, but I’m honestly at the point where I don’t care as much to be honest 😅
I mean if I like the tone of a guitar, should I really care if it’s because of the wood or not?
At this point, if there are people trying to massively up sell an instrument because of the wood used, and they’re saying it’s for the sound, I’m not going to jump towards that. If it looks cool on the other hand, then why not
Mark Twain once said "It's easier for a person to believe a lie than it it is for that same person to believe that he's been lied to."
There's not one Pickup manufacturer that states their pickups sound better in any particular, wood when it comes to any solid body, electric guitars.
You can take a DiMarzio Super distortion, or Tone Pro. Or any Gibson Burst Bucker and attach it to a shovel, or even a cheap 2x4 and get the same sound. Why? because the pickups are set on their frequency, by how many wraps of wire that are around them. They only pickup the vibrations of the strings from their magnets. Then carry those tones to the output jack. It's up to the Amp after that.
However, The quality of the pots make a difference with how much those pickups are going to be putting out. The capacitors will make a difference too. Some capacitors will change how much tone is coming from the pickups and that's when you see someone getting less distortion from their pickups when they roll the guitar's volume down on the guitar. But Paper in oil capacitors will hold that proper tone when rolling the volume down on a guitar.
Tone woods do make a difference with acoustic instruments. But an electric is electric. It doesn't matter if your stereo receiver is metal, or plastic does it?
That's because it's electric. But the speakers always make a difference in sound.
Why? because like this guy stated, The speakers are much like an acoustic guitar, or an air pump. I hope this help explain it a little better. Peace.
@@thebluesrockers I appreciate the detailed reply… I definitely clears things up!
As time passed, I kind of just chose to forget about it. I never noticed any differences with wood. If people say it makes a difference, so be it, but I’ve never really noticed anything.
And as you’ve said the electronics are the main factor in sound especially when it comes to an ELECTRIC guitar. Stay blessed!
Why did my ash telecaster sound different when I put all those parts from an alder telecaster?
Because the two woods have different densities and so they resonate differently
I think the difference people are perceiving between instruments is propaply in construction and an accumulation of several micro details, and that's why even 2 similar models could sound different, i used to sell guitars and i see customers leaning more towards a demo guitar sometimes claiming that it feels/sounds different
Hell we can't all have wood from Cremona! Just so long as it's lightweight, res-o-glass etc all sound interesting. Great video
I found this explanation very clear and agree that it is divorced from the acoustic air pump paradigm.
But at 9:35 you mentioned something that begs a follow up video: indeed, the body of the electric guitar dissipates the vibrations of the string, and so, does that mean it has to be made of a material of infinite density so that basically it dissipates none of the string vibration and provides maximum sustain and brightness ?
Doesn't it make a difference if the body of the guitar is made of jello like material that lets the vibrations cross over from the bridge into the body and then dissipate instantly ?
I trust that you can discern the differences between similarly constructed edar-top and sitka-top acoustics.
If you start increasing the thickness of the top, is there a certain thickness at which cedar and sitka will sound identical?
a redwood tree falling down sounds totally different than a bonzai. checkmate!
I tremendously value someone who uses logic, reason and critical thinking, in conjunction with facts and data to validate an argument.
Well done. Well done.
I addressed your comment in a new Q and A episode: ruclips.net/video/W2pDZ3u5DXI/видео.html
I have Conde Hermanos flamenco guitar made in 1967 with a very thin spruce top and cypress back and sides, and it is the loudest, brightest nylon string I've ever heard. It will cut through anything in the room. Not a huge bass response though. By contrast, I have a Brazilian 7 string guitar with a thicker spruce top and Brazilian rosewood back and sides and it has a big bass sound and a fair treble. I also have a Telecaster with a maple neck and an ash body, and it sounds exactly like whatever pickups I put in it.
tnx
Hey man,
since tone woods do not matter, would it make sense to just buy a guitar with a tonewood that super light? My current les Paul is super heavy because of the mahogany
The Nickster hey well I hsve good news. Wood actually does matter and mahogany sounds awesome. It has a lot of sustain, bass, and treble. If you want a lighter guitar that's bright and trebly try poplar, if you want a better balance get basswood. But neither will sound like that thick slab of mahogany tone. See for youself Tim Sway has proven it. copy paste Hbyg0d1njk0 into youtube search
The Nickster why did you even buy a Les Paul then. Millennials are the biggest sheep the earth has ever seen. You buy an expensive guitar, see a youtube video and now it's junk because someone on youtube told you? Jesus christ. I bet you vape and play with fidget spinner too.
@@MichaelDespairs Because I heard it was a reputable guitar and it was inexpensive
Nailed it. My conclusion (similar but different) of tone wood on electric guitars came from thinking about what's going on. The string (mettle) causes the pickup (a magnet) to reacted. When a magnet stick to wood you might change my mind. (If tone wood is so important why is there a tone knob. Oh, and are you gonna add a pedals???)
basic laws of physics say he's wrong and by extension, anyone who argues wood type/density is irrelevant is wrong as well. But okay.
What about semi-hollow electrics?
Finally, an intelligent commentary on "tonewood". An acoustic guitar produces sound waves, an electric guitar does not. Guitar players are an interesting breed indeed.
Do you really think its intelligent to stand on the body of an electric guitar at 11:22, then state it adds a nail to the coffin of electric guitar tonewood theory? To me it it seemed like a fairly moronic stunt to justify his assumption. Rather it put a nail in the coffin of the idea that his video contained any serious analysis.
@chief wiggums Except it's a thing called BIAS. You can't hear those sounds physically, unless you're a fucking dog or something. It's been proven, that people find some sounds "warmer" or "darker" solely based on colour of the wood (Maple and Rosewood). Pretending that you hear something is just your brain tricking you, like some people perceive that if something is green it's healthy etc. It's basic psychology that you people don't get.
What a great explanation of tonewood. Thanks
I should amend my earlier flippant response. It's not tonewood that determines the tone of an electric guitar, it is a combination of electrical and mechanical factors. Regarding the electric guitars material, it will inherently dampen frequencies of the overtone series. The extreme example being, why does a hollowbody guitar sound different with the exact pickup switched from a solid body? I think we may agree that it does.
There is one basic difference in the principle of an electric hollow body guitar and a solid body. On a hollow body, the pickups are mounted on a vibrating soundboard which might translate into sound since not only the string but also the magnets are vibrating. On a solid body, pickups are usually soft-mounted. I personally doubt that the difference is noticeable. I think, the difference comes more from the popular types of pickups, the strings usually used and the amps. Would be interesting to compare in a blind test with same strings and same pickups in the same position.
Tonewood oscilations effect which under and overtones of a string's vibrations get amplified or dulled as well as which under/overtones sustain more/less.
Great Video. Does this mean that cheap guitarbodies of plywood work just as good for electric guitars? Or to push it further; plastic, fiberglass, aluminium and so on. (I do understand that this may effect the stability in terms of tuning and intonation etc. I'm talking about the sound here)
Claywood slim. It's a fact there are concrete guitars that sound identical to strats when using same pickups set at same height from strings as said stratocaster.
So interesting 👌🏼 i read time ago that the strings vibrations go to the timber that also vibrates and that vibration go back to the strings and modify the way they vibrates, and that is why wood make an influence in your tone... i don't know is this is real but the information comes from a proffesional luthier... everything is confusing, and a lot of things with opposite nature between them have sense xD
If material that is underneath the strings affect how stings vibrate , then it affects the frequencies that pickup is getting out from the strings.
Question: I can clearly feel my electric guitars body vibrate against my body or my hand if I place my hand on it after strumming a chord. Wouldn't it be possible that the body as it vibrates in turn transfers it's own vibration back into the string and itroduces some frequencies based on the body material?
I just can't shake the sense that there might be some nuances that are missed. One thing I have noticed is this: There is still no les paul made of poplar or alder or whatever that has come through on the market. Where are the Les Pauls for rational people that wanne save money? ;)
People will take two extremely similar solid body guitars only with the two using different woods for the body and come to the conclusion that because the two don't sound 100% exactly the same that it means tonewood is real when the reality is even if you build two guitars exactly the same with the same wood they are likely to not sound 100% exact either, because there are so many variables.
If you build two guitars EXACTLY the same
A tele made with rosewood neck and body vs tele made with maple and alder are going to sound different when cranked loud. Maybe not so much at all at living room levels. A basswood Les Paul will definitely sound a tiny bit different at loud levels than the standard. But you have to be loud to tell. Pickups can massively affect your tone more than the wood. Hotter is not always better.
And in saying this, the video is made redundant. Of course it makes a difference.. the wood.. the way it's built.
Thank you for the video. Yes this is the truth, I do agree that tonewoods do not impact tone on solid body electric guitars. Plywood vs alder or ash or what so ever do not effect on sound at all.
I'm totally with you every step of the way, the logic is obviously totally sound... but then I think about the time Rob Chapman was blindfolded and identified that an electric guitar he was hearing was mahogany with a maple cap (and the many other similar moments he's had) and I'm right back where I started
I’ve no doubt that the mahogany/maple combination might have a distinctive acoustic sound, and might even feel a certain way in the hands to someone who is very experienced in such matters. All this will have nothing to do with the sound that comes out the speakers.
@@JJDoole he was blindfolded and listening to someone else play it through an amplifier though! How do you explain that?
@@SkyBuck I see.
@@SkyBuck Chapman also failed many blindfold tests, more so than he was correct. On that particular case he might have been lucky, but in order for that to have any merit he needs to consistently make correct guesses with proper explanation for the case.
That being said, "tonewood" theory should definitely have a benefit of a doubt, because there are many dependent variables which influence one another. Wood might have an impact on guitar's construction and thus on intonation, sustain, transient information and consequently on guitar player's feel which influence their playing further. That's not a "tonewood" in traditional sense like explained in a video.
@@davorbrijacak Agreed, it's not "tonewood" in the traditional acoustic sense. But, and I hate to defend someone as problematic as Rob Chapman, his record is significantly better than 50/50. That's the whole reason he throws a monkey wrench in it for me
You are 100% correct regarding your main argument. It's a position I've also held for decades.
You are probably pushing the proverbial uphill if you think you can reverse the popular misuse of the term. As with lies, ignorance becomes well established before truth puts its boots on. We've lost the battle, except when interacting with informed luthiers etc
However, in regard to electric guitar timbers do have more effect than perhaps you give credit to. For instance, amongst other factors guitar body/pickups and strings are a mechanically and electrically coupled system, so any vibrations in the body (and you acknowledge that they exist) mechanically move the p-ups and their magnetic fields which in turn interacts with the vibrating string, in effect, this feedback does influence output.
A lot of BS is coined over qualities of common electric guitar timbers woods as used by the big name companies Fender etc.
In the 1950s and 60s Fender initially chose woods for four main reasons, availability, price, machining qualities and its weight. Not because of magical tonal characteristics of Ash or Basswood, Alder etc. Gibson LPs body timbers were chosen for aesthetic reasons, and its archtop lines continued traditions of the acoustic tradition i.e. using true tonewoods.
The body can absorb vibrations, I find it very hard to credit it with transmitting them. But, IF they did work as you describe here, I'd expect pickups mounted on shock absorbers to sound different from pickups screwed directly into the wood. And to my experience, as far as my ears can hear, they really don't. With all apologies to EVH of course.
Great video, finally something that goes beyond opinion. Still there is one point to define: what is tone?
At 4:15 I so wanted to hear "...but only indirectly coupled by the means" OF PRODUCTION 😂
If 'tonewood' was a reality for electric guitars then, by definition, not only would what wood the guitar is made of affect the tone but also the size and shape of the body (hint: just like it does with acoustic guitars). Strangely, you never hear manufacturers or players talk about Telecasters having a better 'toneshape' than flying Vs, or indeed the relative size of a solid guitar's body affecting its tone.
I can only comment based on my personal experience.... I swapped out an alder Tele body for an aged wild cherry body, everything else is the same with the exception of a new set of strings(full disclosure). To my ears the tonal difference was quite surprising, I was always of the mind that wood species made little to no difference...now I'm not so sure. Could I tell them apart blindfolded? I'm honestly not sure, I think I could lol. Peace!
I suspect you'd be able to hear the difference even if the two bodies had been from the same species of wood. There can be a lot of variation within a species.
Electric guitars made with denser materials tend to have more sustain because they absorb less energy from the string. Change how much energy and, what frequencies are absorbed by the body you change how the string vibrates and, consequently what the pick-ups pick up. So to say that materials do not matter is incorrect but to think that you could apply the same rules to electric as acoustic is flawed thinking.
If one couldn’t tell in a blind test then that would lead one to believe that the wood selection didn’t matter. Also, a new set of strings can do wonders for any stringed instrument. A lot of the times, we set ourselves up to perceive a difference when in all reality it’s just us thinking there is. If you really want a tonal change from your electric guitar, swap your speaker.
The sound difference was due to the new strings.
Or the more likely answer
what where your pickup hights?
Thanks for making this video, it's certainly impassioned (you cut two guitars in half to make a point), if not completely impartial. I build solid bodied electrics and there is no doubt in my mind that wood choice for both the body and the neck do make a difference. That doesn't mean I only use woods that someone else prescribes as a "tone wood". It means I make an informed decision on the woods I use according to how my own human ear perceives the different results I achieve. I concede one thing, the term "tone wood" has been taken out of context so that lumber companies can make more money. But that's just marketing. The fact that the market has bastardised the term in order to rip off the ignorant doesn't mean that the resonance of a solid bodied electric doesn't chance perceptibly with wood species.
pickups affect the tone more then wood.....
Wood in electric guitars can sound a little bit different. But you really have to be loud to hear it. A solid rosewood tele is going to sound a little different when cranked, compared to Alder/maple Tele with the same pups. But I doubt you can hear it at living room levels. It's easier to change the pups for "better tone". Better string/bridge/body contact helps a lot as well, and makes the wood sound a little bit more noticeable. But you really need the speaker of your amp vibrating the guitar body, pups and strings with the note your playing to tell. Hardly anyone plays that loud anymore, they mic a little amp or DI from a cab emulation device.
Dude your right for the wrong reasons pickups work because metallic strings are actively disrupting a magnetic field causing the sounds you hear but if you wanted to make a electric guitar that was effected by tonewoods it would have to be a hollow body guitar with the inside sprayed with a metallic powder and clearcoat mixture in order for the resonating wood to be able to actually effect the magnetic field of the pickup
He's right for the right reason. The pickup argument is a supplementary reason, born from his reason (i.e. no soundbox).
The solid body electric guitar was designed to eliminate the effects of the body (I.e.; feedback). Any impact of body material is incidental and not significant. Perhaps the pickups act somewhat like microphones once energized by the strings and might pick up some acoustic events but again were dealing with small incremental differences.....ALTHOUGH: years ago, I was invited to a church and was asked to sit in on guitar and they had this incredibly cheap electric that was probably made out of cardboard. It soinded "cardboardy" to me. It could be that the pickups were very microphonic (because it was an extremely super cheap instrument) and was picking up the body vibrations....something you don't actually want.
If pickups were microphonic you could hear nylon strings thru your amp.
I have a stratocaster, a Les Paul and a Melody Maker all with a Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge set the same way. But they sound different. Why then? It's a genuine question.
The MM and LP have similar wood but still the LP sound fuller.
I have also tried a Telecaster in Mahogany with a Tom bridge and setlle neck. Basically a Les Paul disguised as a Tele with a Pearly gate pickup.
I compared it to a LP with the same pickup and they did sound a bit different. Less full as if the size of the body played a role.
I have a Schecter and a Yamaha AES. The same pickup was in both guitars. They both sounded different.
I have no doubt guitar companies oversell the importance of wood. But this whole tonewood doesn't matter for electrics thing is not true in my experience.
I addressed your comment in a new Q and A episode: ruclips.net/video/wQK59eKRTnk/видео.html
@@EricSchaeferGuitars Thanks a lot for the clear answer.
Exactly. Through an amp with imprecise tone adjustment the listener cannot tell....and more importantly....dont care. Good vid
I asked why 2 guitars was so different in price. Same brand, good quality both. And the owner of the store started with difference in wood and how it affected the tone. I said I was only interesed in the mechanics. He almost threw me out.
Not only this, but the solid body guitar is resting against your soft body when you are playing it. This would have the same effect as when you palm mute strings, and would dampen any vibration the body would be making anyway. You can dampen the vibration of the back of an acoustic guitar and the top will still vibrate to pump air. But a solid body is one piece, so when you dampen the vibration the entire would body would stop vibrating. This also applies to the wood in the neck, which you are holding in your soft hand. And it's for this reason I believe all guitar necks should be maple, as it's the hardest wood and most resistant to breaking (headstocks.)
Eric, thought I would watch your video to see if it did indeed bridge the gap in the debate over whether Miller Lite is "Less Filling or Tase Great". Sorry, I mean whether certain woods do or do not affect the solid body guitar sound. Wills Easy Guitar (one of my favorite reviewers) provides one of the most profound arguments for NO, and that British chap, Rob Chapman sez yes, they do. Although I do follow your explanation, a couple of things I think may make sense for both arguments. If different wood have varying densities, when a sound wave created by strumming the guitar strings hits that wood, perhaps the amplitude of the sound wave changes a little or a lot, and when absorbed by the pickups's magnetic field, produce more (you choose the adjective--warm, clear, distorted, etc) Also, as one of your viewers commented below, how about the finish used on the wood, heavy/light, etc causing again a disturbance in the sound wave. Whether or not it is discernible to the human ear before it is amplified is of course meaningless. However, if you send that altered sound wave through an amplifier, then perhaps it does make a difference. My whole interest in this debate is whether or not to continue to buy inexpensive guitars, with so-called inferior woods, electronics, tuners, etc, and focus my attention instead on creating more tone choices with the amplifier, speaker, strings & pedals.
Lol I like the Miller Lite analogy. And I think you are going about this a good way; investigating it openly rather than assuming a side dogmatically.
Different woods do physically resonate differently, and so you get a different "disturbance" with a different wood. Part of the disconnect here, however, is in understanding how magnetic pickups work. They only pick up changes in the magnetic field, as in vibrations of the magnetic strings. Not soundwaves propagating through the air. A changing magnetic field creates the electric current. I'm sure some incredibly small amount of the disturbance in the wood is fed back into the string, ever so slightly altering the vibrational pattern of the string itself which ever so slightly alters the magnetic field, which the pickups then pick up. But if you think about the inital energy of a string pluck and where it goes after it enters the wood, the overwhelming majority of it is going to be lost to the environment as soundwaves propagating through the air. Because electric guitars recreate the sound by essentially reading the changing magnetic field and then amplifying that, they miss out on wood's resonant affect on the surrounding air, which is what acoustic guitars are designed to capture and amplify. Add to this the sheer thickness of electric guitar bodies and the fact that it has to rest against some part of your body to be played, and there really is no hope for a discernible difference.
Eric Schaefer - I also rarely hear people discuss pickup microphonics. Not all pickups are vacuum wax potted and therefore might interact with vibrations more so than others. My take as a guitar builder is when it comes to solid body electrics tonewood is over hyped and any difference is so small it isn’t worth worrying about.
Electric guitars made with denser materials tend to have more sustain because they absorb less energy from the string. Change how much energy and, what frequencies are absorbed by the body you change how the string vibrates and, consequently what the pick-ups pick up. So to say that materials do not matter is incorrect but to think that you could apply the same rules to electric as acoustic is flawed thinking.@@EricSchaeferGuitars
how do electric guitar makers control the tone of the instrument the are creating?
The tone of the electric instrument is null. It’s pickup selection through whatever amp/speaker that company considers “standard”. Then, they just replicate the specifications on a mass scale. If you really want a tonal change from an electric, swap your speaker.
If you notice, when people get an electric with a tone they don’t like, 95% of the time they switch pickups and BAM!...... better tone.
Well done. Truth is hard to take but it makes perfect sense.
i like to get whatever wood for the body / top looks pretty
On an Electric Guitar the way to actually increase sustain is having both ends of the strings connected to metal that is locked. And the more metal you have on your bridge the more energy will resonate. Its pure physics. And also it makes sense to use metal for your nut whether its a Zero Fret or Floyd system because your frets are metal, no reason to have your open strings sound different than your fretted strings. Never made much sense to me to rely on a non metal nut.
Do you understand WHY it's physics though? The density. Wood has different densities depending on a million different factors. You'll never find a guitar even made out of the same wood that sounds identical because the density and makeup is what alters the sound. The reason Metal resonates so well is that it's dense and does not absorb as well making it an excellent conductor of energy. That energy is transferred down the neck and into the pickups. Basic physics dictates that wood type MUST alter the sound. It's just a pissing contest against educated physicists who can pretty easily tell you that you're dumb if you think different woods or even similar woods from different parts of a tree will have the same acoustic properties. There's a reason we don't all just own shit ass 100 dollar knock offs, and the majority of that difference is in the wood quality and build quality of each piece. The pickups don't do anything but take vibration and translate it into audible noise. You can color the pickups, sure, but at the end of the day, you're going to have completely different tones and playability between two identical guitars built from the same tree. That alone is enough to make the affirmative claim that tonewood absolutely will alter the color of the sound even if it's not audible to everyone. RUclips is a terrible place to even make this comparison as the compression on videos alone is enough to cancel out certain frequencies. www.ultimate-guitar.com/articles/features/guitar_myths_explored_how_much_does_the_guitars_wood_affect_tone_and_what_are_the_physics_behind_it-95275
@@Southboundpachyderm Well, if that is the case, the shape of the guitar must also change the way the guitar resonates. In that case we would be talking of how a flying V-shaped guitar sounds different from an LP shaped one. Also, if density mattered that much a cold guitar would sound different from a warm guitar. Heck, if density mattered that much we could test it using identically shaped bodies made of materials with differing densities.
This video is right on the money. Too much hype and mystique on tonewoods that have been marketed to electric guitars. The physics of how sound is produced between an acoustic and electric guitar are completely different. On the acoustic, think of like a speaker cone. The composition of the actual vibrating material that is producing the sound makes a big difference. As does the design of the chamber, etc. On an electric, you don't care so much if it sounds acoustically alive. That is the strings vibrating a solidbody through a metal bridge. There's absolutely no design consideration in amplifying this sound, and in fact, there are all sorts of filtering and dampening going on that make the end acoustic sound. But this is not what you hear out of an amp -- which is the string vibration only as replicated through the pickups. And this is an electromagnetic sensing of the string movement -- not the acoustic vibration of the body. These are 2 completely different mechanisms on how the sound is produced. This is why electric pickups make a much larger difference in tone than the "tonewoods" in an electric guitar.
I’ve always have been sceptical of the species of the body wood of a solid body guitar sounding different as the electric guitar works solely by the vibrating string creating a electrical impulse in the pickup then being amplified to give that electric guitar sound. I know Fender state that certain woods change the tonal characteristics of the sound but I believe that just a sales pitch!
A hollow body may not sound any different to a solid body through an amplifier but the player can probably hear some of the vibrations of the wood in the tone to his ear.
After I listened to a Warmouth demo of three different types of wood in three bodies the same shape and weight using the one neck and swapping the same hardware and pickups there was a slightly decernible tone difference between each of them which surprised me to say the least.😀
LOL and this is dedicated to all the those who think that there is a spaghetti monster out there.
The material of the body on an electric guitar makes a difference on the sound the same way as my shoes does. LOVE THIS VIDEO!!!
It's all false marketing, and the entire world participate. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The irony is those deluded ppl think it is the ppl dissing their "tone woods" who are flat earthers, creationists & yet it is actual science that proves them wrong every time. The best argument they could make is if a guitar is made with better materials tha cost more, they spend more time making the guitar it is a better product. But instead they go on about how it sounds better due to the expensive woods etc instead of simply saying it sounds & plays better because the product was made better. But if they did say that then ppl would simply say that a guitar that has been built well & is cheap is just as good if the same pickups etc were fitted. And that just won't do will seeing as brand loyalty & paying for the name on the headstock & that certification from "master luthiers" would sound very hollow indeed.
Based on physics, sustain is the only thing possible to be different based on the various density of solid woods. ***THAT BEING SAID, I believe I may have just opened my mind DURING THE WRITING OF THIS COMMENT to the possibilities that the wood MIGHT make a difference. For example, maybe the dampening effects of less dense wood might send back into the strings a resonant frequency, possibly out of phase, and different than harder, dense wood, to dampen certain ranges or pitches. We know that external sound waves re-interacting (new word) with the vibrating string definitely effects tone ranges, amplifying some, or otherwise we wouldn't get awesome feedback from amps when using distortion, so why would these type or similar effects not be possible coming back through the bridge as well? Maybe these effects could even be modified further by a transmitting resonant freq properties through the finish, i.e. thick hard poly vs soft nitro. Time for me to get scientific in my research. Btw, i love the sounds of my poly finished Epi's so I am not becoming a tonewood snob, but a proponent of the possibilities. My first sentence is wrong, but I am leaving it. ;)
Then why does a guitar have a tone unamplified that it similar to what it has has once it's plugged in?
Many factors for resonating without an amplifier. Strings, Bridge, Saddles, Nut, Tuners. The Wood on an electric guitar don't distinguishably matter to the human ear. Its all hype.
@@Arcturian1111 You missed The point. If the guitar sounds like it does acoustically as it does amplified, then that shows inherent sound qualities that go beyond the electronics.
It doesn't. Every single one of my electric guitars - unplugged - sounds completely different to when it is plugged (clean)
Why can't I like this video more than once ?