The CEO of Gibson said in another video that he was told by atf the reason Gibson is the only manufacturer being singled out is "because they're the only major us manufacturer of musical instruments that donates exclusively to the Republican Party ".
Well, that’ll do it. ATF needs to be disbanded. Most of the governments worst acts of cronyism is perpetrated by the ATF. Also, the ATF employees are absolute sellouts with no moral compass.
This lady bureaucrat say individual musicians don’t need to worry. Santana almost had his guitar seized permanently, lost forever, because of the wood it was made from. Men have been sent to prison over this, no doubt in conjunction with a hefty fine.
The EIA is the problem here, trees die off eventually and should be consumed and made into valuable artifacts that can be sold for huge amounts of money before it's demise. The real issue is the loss of generated revenue from potential resources being used from other countries.. Government kicking your door down for they're share of the profit is all it is.. they don't care about the fricking trees.
Andrea Johnson has a title and a big credit position with the E.I.A. so what does she care for blue-collar labor in factories??? Thank you Rand Paul! you make me proud to be a Kentuckian!!!!!
If I'm not mistaken, a similar raid recently happened to either Taylor or Martin acoustics, which the one that was raided has a CEO that was a campaign donator to the Republican party.
Reginald Von Goldbergstein the government uses it's power in an unlawful way to target their political enemies! Look what happened to Tea Party members!
The Constitution already says, we are not allowed to use foreign law in the United States. This, in and of itself, should make the Lacey Act null and void.
The purpose of the Lacey Act and other such laws is to make compliance so difficult that more and more otherwise law-abiding citizens become inadvertent law-breakers.
3:55 - Not true. A friend bought an 80s Yamaha on ebay from the US and it was seized in America by customs en-route to the UK because they claimed it had Rosewood in it. The seller claimed he was unaware of this, but my friend got his money back. This can definitely affect you if you're buying or selling a guitar so beware.
Scenario: I am pulled over for changing lanes improperly on the way to a vintage guitar show. The State Patrol decide to do a probable cause search due to the large number of guitar cases in my vehicle, and to prove ownership. They decide to confiscate said guitars under the Lacey(sp?) act. All I can say is they BETTER be armed...
No, the wood that Gibson uses mostly comes from 100s of years old trees. And I did some research. Rainforest soil, where these trees grow, is of very poor quality. The trees grow because they "feed themselves" from the dead leaves and fruits they drop themselves. If those trees are chooped, the chance that a new one will grow is quite small, also because a farmer will take over that piece of land, and exhaust the soil even further
Nic Taylor , well if you eat your food tru a straw , Wipe your ass with " recycleable Toliet paper , think that Al Gore's dad was the CEO of Occidental Coal because he was a poor boy from Tennessee , that Barry Obama was born in America and that Bill Clinton's trip to the Soviet Union as a kid was a mere Fluke ,then someone is for more laws !!
Why didn't they interview an official from one of the Goverment agencies conducting the raid rather than interviewing a third party such as the IEA that was not involved in the raid? Or is the government not speaking about the raid at all?
The real question is why unethical ,unconstitutional and traitorous agencies have their own standing armies.Agencies and departments have no legal to standing to script their own laws and it is a declaration of war against the American people for them to enforce these rules .Social Security has an army ,the Education Department has an armed task force,the FDA has an army to rival small nations,etc etc etc and none of them have legal enforcement powers.They do not have the legal right to make laws contrary to what they tell you.We need gun control in America...we need to take the guns from the government and return them to the taxpayers.
*sigh* Ebony grows in Africa, Madagascar, Sri Lanka, India... hence making it an exotic wood. They allegedly got the ebony from Madagascar, which is (mostly?) an illegal source
They should be able to sue the US DOJ for loss of productivity and profit as well as damages caused by stealing their supplies. Unfortunately even if they are 100% in the right, they still lose all that money from loss of production AND legal costs plus all those workers not getting a paycheck...
It certainly is amazing the things that have gotten 'ignored' by the media when it concerns this administration. Saddening really. Sad to have come to this, but seems a majority of people(at least that's what they're hoping for) don't seem to be bothered by it, or don't WANT to be bothered by it. Glad it makes you take notice, at least we aren't alone out here.
What does the fish and game have to do with guitars?? Did the CEO go hunting without a hunting license?? Gimmie a fuckin break,its all govt intimidation
I'd say it's still pretty good for a non-native speaker, the reason I pointed out your spelling error is because you called me an environazi, which I am not btw, I just pointed out the plain logic that natural resources are finite. Of course you could plant new seeds, but it would take hundreds of years before they would be full grown trees, so we need to be cautious with the existing resources anyway
You've got to hope that somewhere in the back of one of the agents mids that was actually involved in the raid, he was thinking "Man, this is bullshit."
Unrelated comment - I went to India a few years ago and traveled pretty light, so did not take a guitar. I bought one when I was over there just to have one for the couple of months, it was a "Givson" LOL, same font and everything. Wasn't best guitar in the world, but it was good enough.
The problem with the Lacey act is that it has allowed Congress to delegate law making to other nations, and made those laws binding upon citizens of the United States. How is this remotely constitutional?
Seeing this warehouse and how much guitars they actually make, there is no reason they should cost more than $1000 for your top of the line except custom shop. That's completely different... But still when you see all the body's that have been cut and stacked a couple feet high... Dude c'mon, and this goes with any guitar, I'm not sure if I'm correct when I say this but I would assume that guitars made in Mexico, Asia, etc. are bought just as much as your American made guitar that will sound slightly better but cost so much more, the price for a guitar made in a different country is definitely worth.
"Individual consumers and musicians are not the focus..." This should be of little comfort. The Fish and Wildlife made this statement specifically because the Lacey Act criminalizes what everyday musicians do. they may not be focused on you now, but what guarantees are there?
I live in Nashville.. I own over a dozen Gibson guitars.. Mostly electrics but a few acoustics as well. I am a professional studio musician.. But there are many in this country who are players who work at clubs, travel to venues etc.. Who do not make much money.. The EPA is OUT OF CONTROL.. Obama and the EPA are making it impossible for our country to function due to the AGW lie.. Gas Prices, the raid on Gibson driving up their prices? This has to end.. ANYONE ELSE 2012
That lady at 4:07 is full of shit. Look at the wording of the "law". It says "not the focus" and individual consumers have "no need for concern". She said "the government has no intention of enforcing the Lacey Act". That's NOT what it says. This statute is trying to lull us into a false sense of security by using words such as not the focus and no need for concern. Hey, there's no need to worry about this, now go on your way. People will be relieved and think great, they're not gonna come after me, but that's NOT what they said. It's getting us to lay our mistrust aside all the while they're gearing up for something. "We NEVER told you we weren't gonna do anything. We just said you weren't the focus and not worry about what we were gonna do to you. That's all. Now you are the focus."
1) Just FYI, this very same situation is seen in the manufacture of custom pool cues--and guys going overseas with their cues for tournaments. 2) The law is one thing. The UNAMBIGUOUS immoral act is TAKING all Gibson's materials, HOLDING THEM for a ridiculous period, yet not CHARGING HIM with a crime. THAT is ruinous government destruction on business.
We try to avoid making a politically motivated judgement, especially in the current environment of showmanship-government. That being said, it is a sad day when a great American manufacturer, such as Gibson Guitars, is treated to such tactics. Gibson is a truly beloved company of craftsman, on multiple levels. Putting aside the fact that the wood Gibson was using was not unique to them, to respond with an armed raid on an American company for a non-criminal complaint, is outrageous.
15 years at FENDER & I can tell you that there rosewood comes in the same way that GIBSON'S does... Probably from the same over sea mill.... There is actually a LOT of labor put into the board blanks by INDIA. Taking a massive TREE and turning it into thousands of 21"x3"x 3/8" pieces is FAR from sending a (LOG) through a mill to make some big lengths of (lumber).... These are purpose made units by INDIA. It's exactly how you need them to allow any twist etc during curing (proper moisture) to be machined properly....
the laws of the country gird you far too tightly when something like this is possible. Gibson did admit guilt to the charges but not for any reason other than proving their case in court would have been prohibitively expensive. if the laws gird too tightly and to be heard "fairly" in court is too expensive, then the fact that something is wrong cannot be overstated.
The preposterous claim that individuals "do not have to worry" is, well, preposterous. They "are not the focus," is meaningless. They "have no need for concern" is not a repeal of the requirements of the law, it's meaningless. Don't have to worry about "confiscation?" What about the fines? Meaningless. And, "by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service," as if that is the ONLY agency that can enforce the law. Meaningless. At least you could quote that notice during your trial. IF you ever get one.
The government was able to harrass Gibson, but Harry Juskiewicz has been able to really do serious damage to it. I guess it really hasn't been Gibson since it was made in Kalamazoo, anyway.
I'm deeply embarassed by the people leading these Government Offices. Solution #1, Quit buying from India, send them a BOLD message back to take a hike. Solution #2 ,FIRE the government officials responsible for these violent raids and the lacey act, because the contraband shipment should have NEVER made it through the coast guard and Customs *AND* local state entry points. What a load of Horse Shit.
At 1:32 why is there a Stratocaster hanging there??? It's a video of Gibson and talking to Gibson's crooked CEO. I guess the Strat is hanging there to say "I'm not overcharging for my legendary name and consistent quality....buy me!"
"Isn't It Ironic? The food stamp program, part of the Department of Agriculture, is pleased to be distributing the greatest amount of food stamps ever. Meanwhile, the Park Service, also part of the Department of Agriculture, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals" because the animals may grow dependent and not learn to take care of themselves." - Unknown (Via ol' Remus @ The Woodpile Report)
@anarchoutis Curios my son just watched that movie, last week and I watched a bit with him. I had seen it and was glad he was watching it as well. The young people are waking up to the lunacy and B/S. That is encouraging.I just Hope that it isn't to late
Libertarians have long warned conservatives and liberals that freedom is not lost suddenly. It is nibbled away in increments. Conservatives and liberals dismissed us as overly excitable. They insisted that practical concerns necessitated one law after another. One loss of freedom after another. This is where America has wound up. If you want to know who was responsible, look in the mirror. Ron Paul 2012!
Oh well the government has no "intention to enforce the Lacey act on individual musicians." The only way to really protect anyone is to NOT GIVE GOVERNMENT THE RIGHT TO PROSECUTE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. No one who gives a rip about their rights is going to be satisfied with the current bureaucrat in charge saying that they're alright. If the power is there to be abused, it will inevitably be abused. Just repeal
There is another company in Springfield Missouri, which was also abused by Govt with same kind of Gestapo tactics. Wonder if there is coincidence that this company's investors had a visit by George Bush during his campaign. Is this democratic government acting like the governments in Africa and Asia now?
The government does it again, folks. Absolutely disgusting... I mean how do these people sleep at night? There needs to be some real change here... I'm talking pitchfork justice.
Trouble is, they can't sue these shitass agencies, they are acting within their "legal" authority. Can't sue Congress either, but we keep re-electing the assholes.
Un-friggin-real! I feel like I've been off in a hole somewhere, because I was unaware of this until I just now stumbled into it. Gibson? One of the grandfathers of American guitars? Subjected to this sort of outright terrorism over the woods they've been buying legally for decades? A truly pathetic example of how purely corrupt our bureaucrats have become. And I look to my right at my Les Paul sitting proudly on its stand. Am I going to be raided next?... For owning a piece of that rosewood?...
For the uniformed - The Lacy Act of 1900 was written by a republican from Iowa and signed by president McKinley (also a republican). Industry insiders have indicated that they have had concerns about Gibson not playing by the rules of the importation of wood for some time. Gibson acknowledged in their settlement that they broke the rules. While I understand that Gibson put on a public display of a persecuted entity - the facts proved otherwise. The settled and admitted guilt.
@dariusI404 Yes, impunity. If a company cannot be prosecuted by foreign laws for doing business (in any way) in another country, then they can act with impunity towards that country. It's a very simple concept. In case you didn't read what I actually said, I was referring to Rand Paul's proposed amendment. If you do business/extract resources in/from another country, you shouldn't be insulated from their laws, simple.
not really. They are nice guitars, but are way over priced, and the ones i've seen have a bunch of defects. goes inline with the QC issues people complain about.
I really do not approve of the comments criticizing for their actions on the Gibson raid. The Gibson Company were importing ENDANGERED wood from foreign countries, which is a direct violation of the wildlife laws, and pass it off as "American made" products with a whooping price tag of $3000. What is so "American" about using foreign grown wood and using parts made in China and then assembling it in the US? There are also people who say "This is why businesses are going oversees." They are going oversees because they are able to use cheap child labor to create their products and do you really want America to return to the time when people were paid just enough to buy bread and have poor working conditions? Don't blame the Government for doing their job, blame the corporations; in this case Gibson, for violating the laws by importing endangered wood.
Raul Martinez Rauullllllll, tell us what Socialist " prison do you call home? Tell me what instument company is using a different wood or material for their instruments hmmm , so it is jus tGibson who is in the wrong here !!Hey professor what do you even know about construction of guitars , the various woods used since the emergence of American Guitar, Piano, Drum , Wind and other string insturments ???? You are an anti American Communist area you not , ofcourse youy are , unless you belong to the " low information " voter class , which is YOUR MISTAKE !!
Well I could of listed other corporations who are doing the exact same thing but considering this video is talking about the Gibson corporation and how little time I have since I am a college student who on his spare time joins Bible study groups, studies law, and joins community groups that enrich, represent and protest against local injustices from militarized police officers I have bigger things to do than list EVERY single instrument company who is using endangered wood from foreign countries and using electrical parts that were built from cheap overseas labor. I am not for communism (in fact I never mentioned communism or socialism in my previous statement), I am for integrity in products and these companies such as Gibson are lacking integrity because they are selling instruments that were made from endangered foreign wood and overseas electrical parts, slap a $3000 price tag and pass it off as true "American". It seems you are the one who is in favor of overseas work exploitation. The authorities had every right to confiscate those guitars and the wood because they were obtained illegally and they violated many environmental laws. That is a fact and this is in Public Records.
sab2871 I have NO political affiliations man, i hate politics, all bloody morons, im more a semi anarchist if i had to put a name to it, we must have laws, but what people do in the privacy of their homes, as long as noone is hurt, is noones business but the people involved! Fuckin governments are mostly interested in getting reelected..by the idiots that vote for them, i dont vote, one party is as bad as the other. If i HAD to choose, i would go labour, the average mans party, or the greens!! NOT the liberals!! But regardless who"s in, we still have it REAL good compared to most first world countries:)
Hopefully our law provides Gibson a route to gain their money/efforts back for practicing due diligence yet still being screwed by no fault of their own. Otherwise this seems to be a case, at least somewhat, of regulatory over-step (as Rand Paul calls it). That being said, I don't think Rand Paul's amendment is sensible and constitutes some overstep of its own. He wants the act NOT to apply to foreign laws... but that would allow businesses here to violate laws overseas for profit/with impunity.
ASH: Probably so. Another facet of our "overcriminalization" culture where people can be nailed for breaking some arcane law and thrown in prison. Govt bureaucrats love ambiguity.
I know the Lacey Act quite well, thank you. Note that I even spelled it right. And note, no other company that was buying the SAME woods from the SAME supplier got into any trouble at all. Political payback for not being democratic supporters? I think so.
When I was a child I asked my mother, "Mummy, what's a smarmy bureaucrat?" She said, "Never mind, son. You'll find out soon enough." Well, now I know. Oh, God, now I know!
When government can arbitrarily destroy a business, we all suffer. Politicians use this power to protect their friends and crush their enemies. I want liberty back in this country.
if you want your wood back, SEND THE GOVERNMENT A BILL!! then when they dont pay, sue them. what ever you do dont let them get away with taking something that is yours with out due process, i believe it says.
The CEO of Gibson said in another video that he was told by atf the reason Gibson is the only manufacturer being singled out is "because they're the only major us manufacturer of musical instruments that donates exclusively to the Republican Party ".
Well, that’ll do it. ATF needs to be disbanded. Most of the governments worst acts of cronyism is perpetrated by the ATF. Also, the ATF employees are absolute sellouts with no moral compass.
an armed raid. WHY???? intimidation and harassment.
I like how she finds it so funny how they have been raided twice. Unbelievable.
Thanks again Reason for bringing stories like this to light.
This lady bureaucrat say individual musicians don’t need to worry. Santana almost had his guitar seized permanently, lost forever, because of the wood it was made from. Men have been sent to prison over this, no doubt in conjunction with a hefty fine.
The EIA is the problem here, trees die off eventually and should be consumed and made
into valuable artifacts that can be sold for huge amounts of money before it's demise.
The real issue is the loss of generated revenue from potential resources being used from
other countries.. Government kicking your door down for they're share of the profit is all
it is.. they don't care about the fricking trees.
I was curious what happened on this story. Great to see an update.
Andrea Johnson has a title and a big credit position with the E.I.A.
so what does she care for blue-collar labor in factories???
Thank you Rand Paul! you make me proud to be a Kentuckian!!!!!
Problem is the wood is all illegal.
"The government has no intention to enforce the Lacey Act against individual owners." For now.
Short and sweet...the government is outta control !!!
It's worth pointing out that the owners of Fender Guitars are big donors to Democrats, while Gibson is not.
What's the status of the FOCUS Act?
If I'm not mistaken, a similar raid recently happened to either Taylor or Martin acoustics, which the one that was raided has a CEO that was a campaign donator to the Republican party.
Reginald Von Goldbergstein the government uses it's power in an unlawful way to target their political enemies! Look what happened to Tea Party members!
Darlin', I certainly, hope so!!!!! Thanks for satisfying visual and the warm fuzzy feelings!
Until people like Andrea Johnson are afraid to go to work, this shit will not stop.
The Constitution already says, we are not allowed to use foreign law in the United States. This, in and of itself, should make the Lacey Act null and void.
And we wonder why America is going down the toilet? Unbelievable!
So whats the point of seizing the timber?
The purpose of the Lacey Act and other such laws is to make compliance so difficult that more and more otherwise law-abiding citizens become inadvertent law-breakers.
3:55 - Not true. A friend bought an 80s Yamaha on ebay from the US and it was seized in America by customs en-route to the UK because they claimed it had Rosewood in it. The seller claimed he was unaware of this, but my friend got his money back. This can definitely affect you if you're buying or selling a guitar so beware.
"Show me the man, and I'll find the crime" - Beria
Bias, Cronyism and Tyranny abounds in this current administration.
Thank you for this important video! I stand with Gibson Guitar Company!!!!
May I just say, all politics aside, that neck builder at 3:27 is a straight up BOSS. Way to make a semi mundane job look completely awesome!!
Scenario: I am pulled over for changing lanes improperly on the way to a vintage guitar show. The State Patrol decide to do a probable cause search due to the large number of guitar cases in my vehicle, and to prove ownership. They decide to confiscate said guitars under the Lacey(sp?) act. All I can say is they BETTER be armed...
They had use guns in case Ace Frehley was there shooting rockets from his guitar
I feel so much safer now that guitar makers can't "smuggle" wood around.
Thanks federal government, you're the best.
There's no government, like no government.
No, the wood that Gibson uses mostly comes from 100s of years old trees.
And I did some research. Rainforest soil, where these trees grow, is of very poor quality. The trees grow because they "feed themselves" from the dead leaves and fruits they drop themselves. If those trees are chooped, the chance that a new one will grow is quite small, also because a farmer will take over that piece of land, and exhaust the soil even further
It's nice to actually see a video with all sides of the argument.
We can sleep better tonight knowing the this unfinished wood is off the street. Thanks Bho.
Yep, we need more laws.
MORE LAWS?? You dont think you have enough bullshit,lol
TheZacdes
Yeah, we need more BS to try and cover the real problem.
Nic Taylor , well if you eat your food tru a straw , Wipe your ass with " recycleable Toliet paper , think that Al Gore's dad was the CEO of Occidental Coal because he was a poor boy from Tennessee , that Barry Obama was born in America and that Bill Clinton's trip to the Soviet Union as a kid was a mere Fluke ,then someone is for more laws !!
Why didn't they interview an official from one of the Goverment agencies conducting the raid rather than interviewing a third party such as the IEA that was not involved in the raid? Or is the government not speaking about the raid at all?
The real question is why unethical ,unconstitutional and traitorous agencies have their own standing armies.Agencies and departments have no legal to standing to script their own laws and it is a declaration of war against the American people for them to enforce these rules .Social Security has an army ,the Education Department has an armed task force,the FDA has an army to rival small nations,etc etc etc and none of them have legal enforcement powers.They do not have the legal right to make laws contrary to what they tell you.We need gun control in America...we need to take the guns from the government and return them to the taxpayers.
but yet epiphone which is owned by gibson is made in indonisa has the same wood and is sold all over the world so i smell bs from the white house
*sigh* Ebony grows in Africa, Madagascar, Sri Lanka, India... hence making it an exotic wood. They allegedly got the ebony from Madagascar, which is (mostly?) an illegal source
They should be able to sue the US DOJ for loss of productivity and profit as well as damages caused by stealing their supplies. Unfortunately even if they are 100% in the right, they still lose all that money from loss of production AND legal costs plus all those workers not getting a paycheck...
It certainly is amazing the things that have gotten 'ignored' by the media when it concerns this administration. Saddening really. Sad to have come to this, but seems a majority of people(at least that's what they're hoping for) don't seem to be bothered by it, or don't WANT to be bothered by it. Glad it makes you take notice, at least we aren't alone out here.
What does the fish and game have to do with guitars?? Did the CEO go hunting without a hunting license?? Gimmie a fuckin break,its all govt intimidation
I'd say it's still pretty good for a non-native speaker, the reason I pointed out your spelling error is because you called me an environazi, which I am not btw, I just pointed out the plain logic that natural resources are finite.
Of course you could plant new seeds, but it would take hundreds of years before they would be full grown trees, so we need to be cautious with the existing resources anyway
You've got to hope that somewhere in the back of one of the agents mids that was actually involved in the raid, he was thinking "Man, this is bullshit."
Unrelated comment - I went to India a few years ago and traveled pretty light, so did not take a guitar. I bought one when I was over there just to have one for the couple of months, it was a "Givson" LOL, same font and everything. Wasn't best guitar in the world, but it was good enough.
Sounds like depriving someone of property, without due process of law.
The problem with the Lacey act is that it has allowed Congress to delegate law making to other nations, and made those laws binding upon citizens of the United States. How is this remotely constitutional?
So glad someone is standing up to these bureaucrats
Seeing this warehouse and how much guitars they actually make, there is no reason they should cost more than $1000 for your top of the line except custom shop. That's completely different... But still when you see all the body's that have been cut and stacked a couple feet high... Dude c'mon, and this goes with any guitar, I'm not sure if I'm correct when I say this but I would assume that guitars made in Mexico, Asia, etc. are bought just as much as your American made guitar that will sound slightly better but cost so much more, the price for a guitar made in a different country is definitely worth.
"Individual consumers and musicians are not the focus..." This should be of little comfort. The Fish and Wildlife made this statement specifically because the Lacey Act criminalizes what everyday musicians do. they may not be focused on you now, but what guarantees are there?
I live in Nashville.. I own over a dozen Gibson guitars.. Mostly electrics but a few acoustics as well. I am a professional studio musician.. But there are many in this country who are players who work at clubs, travel to venues etc.. Who do not make much money.. The EPA is OUT OF CONTROL.. Obama and the EPA are making it impossible for our country to function due to the AGW lie.. Gas Prices, the raid on Gibson driving up their prices? This has to end.. ANYONE ELSE 2012
That lady at 4:07 is full of shit. Look at the wording of the "law". It says "not the focus" and individual consumers have "no need for concern". She said "the government has no intention of enforcing the Lacey Act". That's NOT what it says. This statute is trying to lull us into a false sense of security by using words such as not the focus and no need for concern. Hey, there's no need to worry about this, now go on your way. People will be relieved and think great, they're not gonna come after me, but that's NOT what they said. It's getting us to lay our mistrust aside all the while they're gearing up for something. "We NEVER told you we weren't gonna do anything. We just said you weren't the focus and not worry about what we were gonna do to you. That's all. Now you are the focus."
1) Just FYI, this very same situation is seen in the manufacture of custom pool cues--and guys going overseas with their cues for tournaments.
2) The law is one thing. The UNAMBIGUOUS immoral act is TAKING all Gibson's materials, HOLDING THEM for a ridiculous period, yet not CHARGING HIM with a crime. THAT is ruinous government destruction on business.
We try to avoid making a politically motivated judgement, especially in the current environment of showmanship-government. That being said, it is a sad day when a great American manufacturer, such as Gibson Guitars, is treated to such tactics.
Gibson is a truly beloved company of craftsman, on multiple levels. Putting aside the fact that the wood Gibson was using was not unique to them, to respond with an armed raid on an American company for a non-criminal complaint, is outrageous.
15 years at FENDER & I can tell you that there rosewood comes in the same way that GIBSON'S does... Probably from the same over sea mill....
There is actually a LOT of labor put into the board blanks by INDIA. Taking a massive TREE and turning it into thousands of 21"x3"x 3/8" pieces is FAR from sending a (LOG) through a mill to make some big lengths of (lumber).... These are purpose made units by INDIA. It's exactly how you need them to allow any twist etc during curing (proper moisture) to be machined properly....
the laws of the country gird you far too tightly when something like this is possible. Gibson did admit guilt to the charges but not for any reason other than proving their case in court would have been prohibitively expensive. if the laws gird too tightly and to be heard "fairly" in court is too expensive, then the fact that something is wrong cannot be overstated.
The preposterous claim that individuals "do not have to worry" is, well, preposterous. They "are not the focus," is meaningless. They "have no need for concern" is not a repeal of the requirements of the law, it's meaningless. Don't have to worry about "confiscation?" What about the fines? Meaningless. And, "by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service," as if that is the ONLY agency that can enforce the law. Meaningless. At least you could quote that notice during your trial. IF you ever get one.
so to own my gibson i have to know what the names of wood are used in my guitar? in latin no less? wtf is that shit the US government is killing jobs!
The government was able to harrass Gibson, but Harry Juskiewicz has been able to really do serious damage to it. I guess it really hasn't been Gibson since it was made in Kalamazoo, anyway.
Cont: decking etc. Why would the timber industry cut its own throat and mill to extinction?!?!?!? It makes no sense.
FOCUS!!! Get em Rand!!
I'm deeply embarassed by the people leading these Government Offices. Solution #1, Quit buying from India, send them a BOLD message back to take a hike. Solution #2 ,FIRE the government officials responsible for these violent raids and the lacey act, because the contraband shipment should have NEVER made it through the coast guard and Customs *AND* local state entry points. What a load of Horse Shit.
At 1:32 why is there a Stratocaster hanging there??? It's a video of Gibson and talking to Gibson's crooked CEO. I guess the Strat is hanging there to say "I'm not overcharging for my legendary name and consistent quality....buy me!"
it's no big deal really. we're going to pass it on to our customers with $2000 Studios and $6000 Standards and make up ground.
Ebonizing fretboards is actually fairly common.
Ms. Johnson, nobody should have to worry about it.
To be fair, guitars are essential. So... Give them the trees, chill out, and yeah, bring the world more glorious guitars!
"Isn't It Ironic? The food stamp program, part of the Department of Agriculture, is pleased to be distributing the greatest amount of food stamps ever. Meanwhile, the Park Service, also part of the Department of Agriculture, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals" because the animals may grow dependent and not learn to take care of themselves."
- Unknown
(Via ol' Remus @ The Woodpile Report)
This is an issue about Gibson donating to Republican campaigns and being punished by an illegal justice dept.
We need to throw off the shackles of this tyrannical government.
@anarchoutis Curios my son just watched that movie, last week and I watched a bit with him. I had seen it and was glad he was watching it as well. The young people are waking up to the lunacy and B/S. That is encouraging.I just Hope that it isn't to late
So it's selective enforcement. Deep pockets.
the really things is that the biggest enterprises are blowing the woods.
Fender, Gibson, Yamaha etc... :(
Sounds like one of their competitors decided he didn't like competing.
Libertarians have long warned conservatives and liberals that freedom is not lost suddenly. It is nibbled away in increments.
Conservatives and liberals dismissed us as overly excitable. They insisted that practical concerns necessitated one law after another. One loss of freedom after another.
This is where America has wound up. If you want to know who was responsible, look in the mirror.
Ron Paul 2012!
Oh well the government has no "intention to enforce the Lacey act on individual musicians."
The only way to really protect anyone is to NOT GIVE GOVERNMENT THE RIGHT TO PROSECUTE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.
No one who gives a rip about their rights is going to be satisfied with the current bureaucrat in charge saying that they're alright. If the power is there to be abused, it will inevitably be abused.
Just repeal
There is another company in Springfield Missouri, which was also abused by Govt with same kind of Gestapo tactics. Wonder if there is coincidence that this company's investors had a visit by George Bush during his campaign. Is this democratic government acting like the governments in Africa and Asia now?
And yet, they are still allowed to continue operations just like before the raid. Settle the case and get back to business.
How about that!
The government does it again, folks. Absolutely disgusting... I mean how do these people sleep at night? There needs to be some real change here... I'm talking pitchfork justice.
It's time to zero the debt, abolish government and legalize EVERYTHING!
Have an Indian spray a clear coat on the rosewood and pay him/her a U.S. minimum wage. Certify it and off the wood goes
Gibson should sue the shit out of them.
Trouble is, they can't sue these shitass agencies, they are acting within their "legal" authority. Can't sue Congress either, but we keep re-electing the assholes.
Un-friggin-real! I feel like I've been off in a hole somewhere, because I was unaware of this until I just now stumbled into it. Gibson? One of the grandfathers of American guitars? Subjected to this sort of outright terrorism over the woods they've been buying legally for decades? A truly pathetic example of how purely corrupt our bureaucrats have become.
And I look to my right at my Les Paul sitting proudly on its stand. Am I going to be raided next?... For owning a piece of that rosewood?...
I thought that the government couldn't do any unreasonable searches and seizures without a permit. Or was this not the case?
When government is too big......
For the uniformed - The Lacy Act of 1900 was written by a republican from Iowa and signed by president McKinley (also a republican). Industry insiders have indicated that they have had concerns about Gibson not playing by the rules of the importation of wood for some time. Gibson acknowledged in their settlement that they broke the rules. While I understand that Gibson put on a public display of a persecuted entity - the facts proved otherwise. The settled and admitted guilt.
@dariusI404
Yes, impunity. If a company cannot be prosecuted by foreign laws for doing business (in any way) in another country, then they can act with impunity towards that country. It's a very simple concept. In case you didn't read what I actually said, I was referring to Rand Paul's proposed amendment. If you do business/extract resources in/from another country, you shouldn't be insulated from their laws, simple.
not really. They are nice guitars, but are way over priced, and the ones i've seen have a bunch of defects. goes inline with the QC issues people complain about.
Gibson. All you have to do is start making your guitars in China. Then the government will help you break laws not raid you over trivial ones.
+Sean McNasty Yup...anything to move more jobs out of here. This Govt. is corrupt on any and all levels.
I really do not approve of the comments criticizing for their actions on the Gibson raid. The Gibson Company were importing ENDANGERED wood from foreign countries, which is a direct violation of the wildlife laws, and pass it off as "American made" products with a whooping price tag of $3000. What is so "American" about using foreign grown wood and using parts made in China and then assembling it in the US? There are also people who say "This is why businesses are going oversees." They are going oversees because they are able to use cheap child labor to create their products and do you really want America to return to the time when people were paid just enough to buy bread and have poor working conditions? Don't blame the Government for doing their job, blame the corporations; in this case Gibson, for violating the laws by importing endangered wood.
Raul Martinez Rauullllllll, tell us what Socialist " prison do you call home? Tell me what instument company is using a different wood or material for their instruments hmmm , so it is jus tGibson who is in the wrong here !!Hey professor what do you even know about construction of guitars , the various woods used since the emergence of American Guitar, Piano, Drum , Wind and other string insturments ???? You are an anti American Communist area you not , ofcourse youy are , unless you belong to the " low information " voter class , which is YOUR MISTAKE !!
Well I could of listed other corporations who are doing the exact same thing but considering this video is talking about the Gibson corporation and how little time I have since I am a college student who on his spare time joins Bible study groups, studies law, and joins community groups that enrich, represent and protest against local injustices from militarized police officers I have bigger things to do than list EVERY single instrument company who is using endangered wood from foreign countries and using electrical parts that were built from cheap overseas labor. I am not for communism (in fact I never mentioned communism or socialism in my previous statement), I am for integrity in products and these companies such as Gibson are lacking integrity because they are selling instruments that were made from endangered foreign wood and overseas electrical parts, slap a $3000 price tag and pass it off as true "American". It seems you are the one who is in favor of overseas work exploitation. The authorities had every right to confiscate those guitars and the wood because they were obtained illegally and they violated many environmental laws. That is a fact and this is in Public Records.
sab2871 I have NO political affiliations man, i hate politics, all bloody morons, im more a semi anarchist if i had to put a name to it, we must have laws, but what people do in the privacy of their homes, as long as noone is hurt, is noones business but the people involved! Fuckin governments are mostly interested in getting reelected..by the idiots that vote for them, i dont vote, one party is as bad as the other. If i HAD to choose, i would go labour, the average mans party, or the greens!! NOT the liberals!! But regardless who"s in, we still have it REAL good compared to most first world countries:)
It's easy move back i love my gibsons guitars fu$k this government makes me sick there is nothing made in china at gibson guitar
Your full of shit they did nothing wrong
And I bet they kept the seized wood and sold it to the highest bidder though the wood was stolen illegally from Gibson. Only in america
Hopefully our law provides Gibson a route to gain their money/efforts back for practicing due diligence yet still being screwed by no fault of their own. Otherwise this seems to be a case, at least somewhat, of regulatory over-step (as Rand Paul calls it). That being said, I don't think Rand Paul's amendment is sensible and constitutes some overstep of its own. He wants the act NOT to apply to foreign laws... but that would allow businesses here to violate laws overseas for profit/with impunity.
ASH: Probably so. Another facet of our "overcriminalization" culture where people can be nailed for breaking some arcane law and thrown in prison. Govt bureaucrats love ambiguity.
Raiding a guitar factory with guns!!!!! that is not ott at all.
i just dont get this at all. Raided but no charges. Wow just wow
Que Bono? Fender
@shadypwnzz whats a Obumbo?
Where are the Big Name Musicians for Ron Paul?
I know the Lacey Act quite well, thank you. Note that I even spelled it right. And note, no other company that was buying the SAME woods from the SAME supplier got into any trouble at all. Political payback for not being democratic supporters? I think so.
Any questions as to why a majority of us free men and women are pulling all support and consent from this cabal?
When I was a child I asked my mother, "Mummy, what's a smarmy bureaucrat?" She said, "Never mind, son. You'll find out soon enough." Well, now I know. Oh, God, now I know!
When government can arbitrarily destroy a business, we all suffer. Politicians use this power to protect their friends and crush their enemies.
I want liberty back in this country.
if you want your wood back, SEND THE GOVERNMENT A BILL!! then when they dont pay, sue them. what ever you do dont let them get away with taking something that is yours with out due process, i believe it says.
Really? WTF does homeland security have to do with lumber?
So happy we're free, right? I wanna go back to eating bananas.