Can WOMEN defeat MEN in SWORDFIGHTS? Reply to Andrew Klavan
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- Опубликовано: 19 июл 2024
- A detailed look at the reality of female sword fighters, can they beat men? and why women didn't fight on the historical battlefield. This video is a reply to Andrew Klavan of the Daily Wire.
Blood and Iron video on strength in sword fighting: • Strength in sword figh...
Blood and Iron reply to Andrew: • "Women Can't Fight Wit...
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Klavan is a good guy. He just spoke from ignorance. He underestimated the force multiplier that a sword is. He was thinking of weapon based martial arts in the same way as unarmed martial arts. The better the weapon the more even the equation gets. Unarmed women are at a vast disadvantage. Add a weapon & training the odds get better for the women. When we get up to firearms the differences disappear. Julie d'Aubigny is a great example of a master fencer who won an amazing amount of duels.
zaqzilla1 The problem with this is when you try placing that in the context of a medieval battle where the combatants are wearing armor. The weight and and endurance requirements place women at severe disadvantages. Their hearts and lungs are smaller thus men are not just stronger but have more endurance and agility as well.
Also the idea that you can train this mythical woman at a skill level twice any male warrior is suspect. Armored knights and soldiers would receive extensive training.
The other problem is that skill and agility snd strength are not independent of each other. In order to train one must develop muscle memory meaning the training to give you the skill boosts your strength. Men being stronger can develop more options in battle.
Can some women train to this level to compete. It is possible but overall I agree with Klavsn’s premise. These shows where women are the equal or better of men, especially men that are supposed to be elite soldiers. It is completely unrealistic.
I know a martial arts instructor that teaches women safety classes. He will teach them techniques but emphasizes breaking away and running. The problem is no matter the skill level of the woman if a man twice her size manages to get in close and hold her she is done for. The only way skill trumps strength is when someone is denied the leverage to use their strength. The minute they get hold then they can apply the strength to hurt someone.
A weapon equalizes sure but Hollywood does not show women being deceptive and sneaky to get advantage which is how a weaker woman would protect themselves.
Andrew Klavan may not be right by stating 100% but the actual number is probably much closer to 99% than to 51%.
@@franklombardo8246 As Matt Easton likes to say. It depends on context.
I can understand failing to recognize the impact a weapon has on the balance of combat. The thing I find far more frustrating is when intelligent people fail to recognize the impact instinctive / biological and cultural pressures have on the _choices_ men and women make (on average), and how the difference in skillsets that naturally develop as a result of these choices has far less to do with capacity and far more to do the pressures which influenced the choice in the first place.
Force multipliers still produce much larger effects with a higher base; that's what *multipliers* do. Weapon based martial arts are not that different from unarmed arts, and your analysis wholly ignores the existence of armor, the impact of greater reach, more explosive force and speed, grappling, and general toughness, as one hit will frequently not kill or incapacitate unless you hit an important vital. Even in firearms, the difference does not disappear, as men demonstrate superior aim and reflexes.
@Samy Nia Well you have the two extremes. I have a bad heart. So most healthy women could give me a good beating. On the other end. You have the US women's soccer team, arguably the best women's team in the world, was beat by a high school men's team. So I agree. Where he went wrong was the 100%. As I said in my original post Julie d'Aubigny was a master fencer. This made her able to use technique to overcome less talented fighters who may have been stronger than her. She had a bad habit of angering husbands by flirting with their wives. Very interesting historical figure.
Since Shad has used up all of his angry ranting energy on Rise of Skywalker, we are now treated to this calm, rational, and detailed assessment of the issue.
I felt some strange catharsis watching Shad vent his outrage and incredulity about Rise of Skywalker (the miraculous film that defeats itself in its own title). I feel like toegther we can now safely return to the valley of beauty that is plausible suspension of disbelief.
I have a friend who called me out for judging a movie I had no intention of seeing based on an angry review online. I dared him to actually watch the movie before defending it, I look forward to getting back to him next month :)
I don’t think that kind of pain goes away. I can’t think about the disney trilogy without getting angry. Still, ROS is struggling to break even. In the words of General Grievous I say:
“Crush them! Make them suffer!”
@@VunderGuy I mean maybe if you're incredibly sexist yeah. There are a lot of things that go into combat not just strength. Relying on strength along now that will certainly end poorly.
@@VunderGuy it does in super hero movies. That's about it.
"I use metric, I'm not a Savage". Oh, I see you took the high ground there.
Strangely playing videogames like warthunder have made me able to estimate the difference 😂. What's hilarious is once the boomers are gone the us is probably gonna complete the conversion to metric that their generation stopped.
@@TheAngelobarker wtf are you talking about? For a system to work everyone need to be to concourt young and older so is everyone bfault
It's over imperial system! We have the high ground!
@@galenusv7831 You underestimate my poundage.
Shad: "Metric is for men, Imperial is for beasts."
Imperial measure: "Hmm. F***."
I somehow read this as “Cavewomen defeat men in swordfights” and I got excited. Lol.
Love the thought and thoroughness that goes into your videos, Shad! Thanks for being such a great resource and creator.
Sounds like a hook to an animation series, lol.
You get excited over women killing men?
This actually reminds me of a fight scene from the Witcher books. The final confrontation between Ciri and the bounty hunter, Leo Bonheart. Bonheart was a man who delighted in cruelty and repeatedly showed this to Ciri as he made her watch him hack up the bodies of people she cared about, but also through the way he would physically abuse her when he had captured her. With Ciri being a scrawny 16 year old girl and Bonheart being a tall and muscular adult man, whenever she tried to defend herself, he would literally throw her around. In their final confrontation Ciri actually used Bonheart's own strength against him. She knew that she didn't have the strength to parry his attacks, yet she did try anyway and used the momentum of her sword ricocheting off of his to power up her next swing and land a fatal blow.
"100 percent of the time"
"with exceptions"
Somewhere a math teacher died
50% of the time I win 100%
It’s works all the time 90% of the time
Honestly depends on the precision of the 100% technically anything under 0,5% would still be possible. So the math teachers can survive, did he know this when he said it, most likely not.
“Yes, but actually no”
He was being hyperbolic but he's right, in armored sword combat women are absolutely doomed against men.
Having a Disadvantage, is not the same as getting killed 100% of the time.
That's the thing that annoys me whenever the topic of physical strength between men and women comes up. People act like women being slightly weaker on average automatically makes it a no contest fight, when that's not how it works. "Oh she weighs less than me" Yeah well so does a bowling ball, how will you fare if I toss one at you?
@@star3catcherSEQUEL 👏👏👏👏 Phenomenally said.
I'ts a 7:3 matchup.
As a waman if I see a sword I died instantly
Doant hart me I'm waman
I scare of swards
@@BatdadIsBestDad is something wrong with your o key? Oh wait nvm i see a o in there. Wait than why are you using a's?
One thing has to be taken into account: if the fight is a 1v1 duel or if it's a battle of armies. There's a great difference in strenght needed for two clashing infantry formations and two solo fighters.
Armor is the biggest difference in either case I think. If I can negate the danger of a blade to a degree, it changes the situation entirely. Hammer with helmets is a very different conflict when talking about averages
Also, in such a battle line having women in it could cause a breakup of the line easier. Such a break in the line caused by a weaker link could cause a rout and loss of the battle...
@MMoLoLu what century are you talking about? Do you know when the phalanx became an absolute battle tactic? The longer your spear gets the less manoeuvrable
I know that if all things are equal opportunity in a fight, someone has a Terrible mind for tactics...
But isn't a clash between two, one thousand man armies, just break down into at least a few hundred one v one fights?
Like, if sir Leopold doesn't have three friends with him, he isn't going to allow himself to fight three friends on the opposite force.
Take away every variable other than gender because that's the topic. So 1v1 same weapon and armor. Man wins
I used to fight and train fighters in the SCA, the medieval war people. I am a woman. I was, many years ago, quite strong and did construction work for a living and fought for fun. I had full steel armor and helmet and a shield and except for very very rare occasions, fought nearly totally...MEN. Men tend to be bigger and stronger than women and this was in my case, too. To win a battle I had to use cunning and tactics because I couldn't just smash my way through an event. Nearly no women can do this as well as most men, men evolved over millions of years from earliest mammals to today to fight for the right to have a female who would then give birth...males had to fight to exist! They always will be faster and stronger than females and females have the ultimate weapon for dealing with men: ahem. We all know what that is! Eve explained everything to Adam in their lovely garden...
Well Said :)
From the horse's mouth...Thank you
Yup. PPH (Power of the Pink Hole)!
Great and underrated comment. This is the way
I feel like any man who won't fight a woman simply because she is attractive, is quite stupid.
Oh boy, comments are gonna be so calm and full of well put arguments
yeah totally
This is the internet, there are nothing but well-thought-out and nuanced arguments here 😉
Олег Козлов *Insane and enraged babbling*
Well, there are sure a lot of pissed imperial system proponents in this section.
And it's all because he brought metrics into this.
"I use metric, I'm not a savage"
Well, that was pretty savage.
There are two types of people on this earth.
Those that use the metric system, and those that put a man on the moon.
Kidding
What about the people that do both? Hmm
... who were scientists, thus likely using the metric system 😉
Nasa has been using metric system since 1990
It would be more convincing if he didn't default to imperial first, *hesitate,* then correct himself to metric.
"can women use swords?". Me looking at the girl who constantly beats me into a pulp during hema training: "eh uh yeah maybe dunno really"
this may say more about your inner berserker and skill level than it says about intra-gender violence supremacy.
@@peetky8645... I'm not sure I get what you mean, are you saying that I'm bad because a woman can beat me? I'm confused by your wording
@@ludovicotommasi5555 pretty much----look at the NBA vs WNBA....both skilled, men beat the women easily. Testosterone replacement maybe, or less soy products---are you vegan-red meat might help
@@peetky8645..... I'm not really sure you know how that works? Fencing isn't basket, it's way more focused on skill and proficiency, strength has quite little meaning, and if you have a good technique the sparring will end before you get actually tired. So yeah, women can beat men.
There's also a decent skill gap between me and her (first year VS fifth or smth), but you didn't seem to care about that did you? Do you honestly think raw strength is that important? That a man would beat a woman in most sports, even if the woman has more experience?
@@ludovicotommasi5555 once again, the basis of the thread is a woman in a melee battle killing man after man.......i was just trolling you about losing to a girl....i was in a fencing club in college and the women fencers on the actual ncaa team would beat my ass every time....in a fight, i would take them all though. If you are unable to do the same, go join a gym and hit the weights
I think another thing worth taking into account is that just because you generally didn't see women on the battlefield doesn't mean they didn't fight at all. The past was brutal and you didn't always have to go to a battlefield for a fight. I can easily imagine situations where women had to defend the home and children while the man was off at war, because, well... if he's not there, who else is left behind to protect all their possessions and the children from, say, criminals that might want to steal their stuff while all or most of the men are off fighting? I'm sure that while seeing a woman on an actual battlefield would have been shocking, I'm not so sure people would have been shocked by a woman trying to defend her children or her stuff violently if it came down to it. If both the women and the men go to the battlefield, there's no one left to protect the home and potentially the children. So I'm almost tempted to see it as more them putting men on the frontlines because they're more comfortable fighting and leaving women with the somewhat less risky job of guarding the home and children rather than seriously expecting women to never shed blood or pick up a weapon. That job probably wasn't as safe and free of violence back then as we might think now, but it was still safer than the front lines of course.
this seems much more realistic to me too than the scenes we get of those little farms getting ravaged and women getting tossed around. idk tbh i feel like women that have faced that kind of violence and expect it will fight tooth and nail and getting hit in the face with a pan can probably knock you out.
i just think ppl have always been people and there's the meek and the bold and i think if you're used to a rough way of life you're more inclined to react with boldness when push comes to shove.
yes japanese women were trained with naginatas to protect the home.
Shad Fact: Shad can accurately throw a spear from the bottom of the Marianas Trench to the dead center of Olympus Mons.
Is that only if there is a direct line between the trench and Olympus Mons or can he use orbits and all of that to hit it?
Miss Vivian This is Shad we are talking about, not some run of the mill spearsman come on now
Blindfolded
For he is mighty.
So Shad is basicly Thorkell the Tall? :D
One of the things I love about The Mandalorian is that the female mercenary (played by former MMA fighter Gina Carrano) actually has the muscle mass to make her fights believable. When she suplexes an alien in episode 3, you know that she really can do that.
A lot of people hated that she drew the main character in a fight because his armour is very tough
If you haven't seen it. Check out Haywire, she is a pretty good all round martial artist.
It bothered me how Mando’s armour didn’t do much to shield against her blows, but otherwise it was a fairly believable fight. But it’s Haywire that really demonstrates her abilities. That fight with Michael Fassbender was amazingly.
Except they canceled and fired her because she had wrong personal opinions.
Me and My sister were big into swordfighting for a long time when we were kids. Now, my Sister is far from average ill admit (dont tell her I said that), but she has always been little. It was pretty darn funny watching her catch these teenage guys on he shield and throw them around. She actually had to ditch the shield at one point so that the fight was anywhere close to fair. Now that we are older (full grown) it is clear that she suffers for reach, but she knows that and compensates for it. On average I win sure, but she always gets her shots in and occasionally she soundly schools me in the fine art of staying away from the swordblade! =D Ive tried to "teach" (I have no professional training) a few women to swordfight, what Ive found is that the main difference is motivation, interest, and reach. Only the last one on that list is chosen by nature, and some gals dont struggle with that. I know a woman who is 5'11"-6'. It helps significantly when you have a sword in your hand for 15 years though.
Having done HEMA for 6 years I can tell you, yes, definitely, if we were were doing real battles, I would have been killed by women a lot. As well as men, as well as experiences fighters, as well as beginners. I also would have killed all of the above a lot. Killing someone with a long, sharp implement designed to do so, not very hard. Winning multiple rounds against someone more experienced, or faster, that's hard. The question becomes a lot more interesting when full plate armor is involved and a lot more grappling takes place in the that sword fighting.
Yes , listen to the Daily Wire hack for historical context. I guess he never heard of Joan of Arc. BTW this guy is ignorant and a sexist. Just like most rightwing HACKs.
How many women are Hema tournament champions?
@@brandonguffey5959 men vastly outnumber women in HEMA, that definitely plays a part. There are just more of them
"You do not need much energy/power/strength to produce LETHAL force with a weapon. that's their whole POINT."
I see what you did there, shad!
Missed that pun
Thats where technique armor and strengh comes and most women are weaker than man
I was totally expecting a followup, "Especially with a spear"
@@josen2791 laughs in spear and armour piercing weapons
Just stick them with the pointy end
This is a serious topic...
and I spent the entire episode wondering when Thor's hammer was added to the bookshelf.
Well, at least i was not alone in that.
Mate, I was doing the same.
It just landed there and obviously could not be moved by mortals, so it had to stay.
Dammit now I’m thinking that
The bookshelf is worthy
So J.R.R. Tolkien got it right? If a woman with near-suicidal determination like Eowyn uses royal prerogative to get the best training and equipment in the realm, she can fight almost as well as her brothers, but the vast, vast majority did not.
Training can't change biology. It happens only in Dinsneytflix.
Shed still lose badly to the overwhelming majority of men she met. As they would likely have access to training too.
@@LhynnBlue Well, those with a near-suicidal determination usually benefit from training more and learn more (motivation plays a huge role) + there may be some genetic advantage for learning the skill of sword-fighting. And, if we count possible wealth and that wealthy people can afford good teachers (Eowyn was a royalty, though to her it was unhelpful)....
No, she wouldn't lose to the overwhelming majority. She would be a very good warrior.
P.S. I don't believe that lady-trainer from Blood and Armor loses very often to the other trainers. And there actually is a decent amount of women fighters in history (Jeanne d'Arc not included)
i dont think she fought as well as her brothers, but a woman with a sword isnt useless either. if i got to decide wether i wanted a group of male warriors or an army of female warriors, i would take the army. if both groups had the same quality and size, i would pick the men.
@@dervakommtvonhinten517 there is nothing such as an army of females. For some reason.
So basically all the guy had to say was, "In general" instead of "100%".
The list of great female swordsmen is very short.
@@fearlessfosdick160 Exactly. The Andrew guy is basically right, he is just technically wrong because he said 100%. Nothing is ever 100% and that allows for whiners to seep in.
He didn't do his homework bless him
@@ZillaTheTegu Yet he wasn't. He was ill informed and showed he didn't do enough research. Hence being exposed by Shad and other folk
@@ZamWeazle Sorry but he is overwhelmingly correct. The idea that women, as a class, can excel in physical combat against men is delusional.
Dear Shad,
Is moon walking an effective combat tactic in Medieval warfare? I expect an hour video on the topic.
Thanks.
only if you put your hand on your codpiece. that will intimidate your enemy and advertise your skill
Only if you grab your crotch and yell "heee heee jamone " its known as the nani dafuq move.
That's not how you get a video made.
Ahem.
Moonwalking was commonly used in the late medieval era, when Slavic tribes migrated to the Tiberian peninsula, enslaving the local Maori population. 100% of moonwalking was effective.
Your move, Shad.
I hope everyone realizes he is making fun of Star Wars
I'll attempt it next time I sack the empire's capital, and then let you know how it went.
"a man would beat a woman 100% of the time"
"ONLY A SITH DEALS IN ABSOLUTES!"
"We are all sith now"
Eventhough it's phrased improperly, he did say there were exceptions, he just doesn't know or care how percentages work apparently. However, his statement is still wrong, that a woman beating a man in a sword fight would PRACTICALLY never happen, which is just not true, because it happens in real life all the time.
At least the sith don't discriminate, they "kill the women and children too"
So you're a Sith too?
@Empor ! "They are matches that don't have anything that went into historical combat." Can you give some examples of things that a HEMA duel doesn't have and a historical combat duel does, which proofs that a woman could practically never beat a man in a sword fight?
This is one of the most gentle and considerate "debunking" videos I've ever watched. Good on ya.
To offer a vaguely relevant observation: I have seen a group of off-duty female police officers (it was a hen do) deal with a guy who went for one of them by, basically, swarming him down - and very effective it was. Talking with doormen and reading various accounts from people in similar professions reinforces the impression this gave me: Women who deal in violence do so by applying numbers, aggression and surprise. Doormen, for example, usually admit they dislike the violent girls more because (well, in part) it's always girls, plural - one attacking woman becomes 8 or 9 almost instantly. Guys, for whatever reason, seldom do this unless they've actually be taught to and hence, despite having the physical advantages individually, don't inspire the resigned dread a big hen party with a bad attitude does. This, maybe, has a bearing on the subject: Even hand-to-hand, where women are at a much bigger disadvantage than with weapons, they find ways to successfully deal with violent men - and it highlights that the idea of doing a one on one average male vs average female comparison can (CAN, not always is) itself be misleading when applied to actual violence.
Everyone is debating women are swinging swords in war. When we all would be poking each other with spears in reality.
No, we all wouldn't. Yes spears are much better weapons in war and more practical, but for whatever reason that stopped being so prominent in more recent depictions of historic battles
The Spartans poked each other with spears all the time if you know what I mean
@Comstar: Space AT&T Read the fucking books. I hate ignorance.
@Max De Jong Kinda embarrassing when a person knows more about history than you and all you can say is 'my mom was in france for a few years'.
@@robertstuckey6407 Let's just say Greeks did it :D
Ha, when you said "I have 4 children" I thought you said "I have fought children!" I had to do a double take there.
Actually, now that you mention it, he probably has. ;)
"I've fought children more fearsome than you!"
Yep, I read this before I heard it. It did sound like that.
If your reading this, you have fought children. That's the benefits of going online
I mean, he fought his brother, I imagine it's about the same as fighting a child, except a bit easier.
On the question of why didn't women fight in many wars (you sort of mentioned this) it was more of 'women need to protect our children' than 'women can't fight'. There are many examples in wars where the country was in the risk of total destruction that they would use women for war.
You got it so correct in describing basic biology and history. I can't explain how much of a relief it is to hear someone speak these basic truths of history and society. So much of it can be chalked up to biological factors. First video I watched from you but very very well done.
did those women win the war tho
There's also the social standards of the time, women barely were able to join the us military in 1948 (legally at least)
One of the things that always annoys me about fight scenes involving women in TV and movies is that they almost always set them up as unarmed fights. Just give the woman a weapon and it's instantly a hell of a lot more believable. In most cases she knows she's walking into a situation where most if not all of her opponents are going to be bigger, stronger, and faster than she is. Why is she unarmed? If it's a super hero movie then that's fine, but otherwise just give her some kind of concealable weapon.
Shad: “No swords are 5-10 pounds”
Monster hunter players: “yeah... imagine that... haha”
Well, I doubt you can find a 5-10 pounds sword in monster hunter. I think they start from 15-20 pounds.
GeanAmiraku excellent point. However some of the dual swords and swords from S&S may be around 10 pounds. I’m no expert and like shad, I use metric like any civilised person
Which raises the question, if swords were so light, why didn't they make bigger five-pound swords?
pjabrony Shad give us answers! Why are you hiding the truth?
@@the10thmuffinmanold35 I use metrics everywhere but in archery, so the only non-metric thing I know is a pound XD
Well, maybe the bone weapons are light enough? Who knows!
"Five to ten pound sword"
*Unleashes Final Fantasy Sword*
i'm just pissed that he called me a savage.
@@williamt.sherman9841 Then kindly stop being a savage and adopt metric.
They don’t make any sense, no matter the muscles of the person Onkels there weight 10 times more the can’t use these heavy swords from the games because they simply tilt because of the center of gravity.
Guts: do you even lift bro
Cloude Streifeur des Bourdeux, a medieval knight who wielded a giant two handed sword called Buster Sword.
My old Master is a woman and she told me several times that she was at a disadvantage against her male friends who were Masters themselves. To clarify when it comes to technique and speed she was just as good or better but once there is contact the difference is significant and game changing. The energy output (Chi, Gi or Ki) is where the true power comes from in martial arts and it IS devastating to the human body! The only way a woman wins in a one on one sword fight when both are experienced swordsman is that she is simply the better skilled fighter (which would be the case in most fights). If she does not allow for the energy to deflect properly the fight would be decided quickly but this would not necessarily be the case in reverse because of the difference in energy output.
Chi doesn't exist man
Thanks for being so measured and constructive and respectful. We need more of this!
"Even a child with a knife can be dangerous".
I don't remember where i heard that, but this discussion reminded me of that.
Just ask Lancel and Pycelle. ;)
@@0okamino Or Bruno Bucciarati
The new Cod MW perhaps
I recalled one that said "The most dangerous person with a sword is the untrained peasant", because you have no idea how they are going to use it. At least against a soldier with similar training, you have some concept of how they will move, what kind of strikes they will make, and how to defend against them.
My mom is a self defense teacher, one thing she tells other women is that a small gorilla can overpower a 6 foot man. Even when facing an armed (say has a knife) opponent, an unarmed woman who is well trained can beat him. I know of a story where an old grandmother beat her attempted rapist dead with her walking cane, even though the man was fit and young (so like in his 20s)
Hey, great video!
As a female swordfighter, I partially agree with Andrew.
I used to do medieval sword fighting and I did, indeed, get my ass kicked many times by bigger, stronger men.
BUT this nice gentleman needs to stop being so MEDIEVAL in his head! Indeed, as soon as I moved to rapier / rapier and dagger, and even more with the 18th century dueling sword, things changed!
With lighter, thinner weapons, smaller, faster and more flexibility opponents get a major advantage. If you look at, for example, the techniques of Italian Master Ridolfo Capo Ferro (17th century), many attacks are not based on brute force, but skill and, even more important, FLEXIBILITY.
With an 18th century dueling sword in hand, I loved to fight tall, strong men with, most of the time, a lot of strength and zero flexibility. Almost too easy 😊 - and for the extra advantage, be sure to wear a dress as a woman, so that your opponent won’t see your legwork coming!
So well…let’s say that a win depends both on the type of sword and on the woman wielding it ^^.
and if your life depended on it, you could have used a poisoned tip either on the sword or the dagger. why not?
Just goes to show that strength is not the defining factor of a successful warrior, it's just complementary to the actual important factors: poise, flexibility, critical thinking, and reach, which is one of the biggest deciders. Someone with a rapier, spear, or other long thrusting weapon will be able to keep any opponent at a distance, which gives them more time to react and a better window of defense.
"It depends on the women" is the most important part. Also the dress.
They had reach, but you had flexibility. Tehee.
You use Capo Ferro a lot then? But what if your opponent counters with Thibault? 😉
I am a large Andrew Klavan show fan and I thought this was a wonderful rebuttal, good and thoughtful commentary. Excellently done.
Hema is not a good basis for dismissing the strength gap as it appears to be based on where you make contact not fighting to injure. This makes it more a contest of skill than lethality
I gotta say, I really admire how articulately and respectfully you reason on stuff. You don't try to rob someone of their dignity (even when they're wrong) but you also acknowledge when some correction is needed.
Kudos to you, sir! Don't ever change!
All he did was a 20 minute long "NOT ALL" meme. Yeah, no shit not all, next.
I also like the fact he did this video because it involves swords. :D
I have a suspicion that Andrew Klavan's stance is influenced by the oversaturation of media representing small petite women overpowering big tough looking guys in single combat and in groups. And he'd doubling down despite contradictory statements to power through the twitter harassment mob. Be good to see how (if) he responds to Shad or if they can have a candid conversation.
@@QarthCEO ding ding ding we have a winner in the best summatin of this video
"you do not need much energy, power, strength to produce lethal force with a weapon, that's their whole point" - yep stick 'em with the pointy end!
"The pointy end goes into the other man."
@@XCrawlFan But could Jon Snow defeat Zorro?
You sure as shit need a whole lot more when they're wearing gambessons, chainmail, shield or even plate.
Nazareadain
Which is literally a point in Game of Thrones, where the quote came from.
Because Arya sticks the hound with the pointy end, and the hound didn’t care.
@@realdaggerman105 True - but also dependent on your sword discipline. There are disciplines which think of the weapon as less for stabbing or chopping, and more as a long razor blade. People of the razor blade mentality are going to look at the joints - which have to exist. slice 'em in there, and all that armor becomes a liability - the attacker will have a huge problem with a cut major vein, artery, and nerve.
What he was talking about is these movies like snow white and robbin hood that get remakes and they turn the princess or heroine into some skilled swordsman with seemingly no training.
I mean it’s pretty much true what Klavan said. Making exceptions doesn’t make the rule. Are there exceptions in history? Sure. Does that represent the majority of women throughout history? Absolutely not, most got pillaged when War is on their doorstep.
Klavan said - "Immediately I was put off by the fact that there's a queen in this who fights like a man".
But this queen is the exception! Queen Calanthe, Pavetta, Ciri and their whole bloodline is an exception that dragged the whole continent to a crazy war.
That's a fantasy world, where Ciri can topple a tower with her scream, and he is being put off by a part-elf queen with a mythical blood line that can land some blows?
Sorry, but that just sounded like an excuse to rant about how much weaker women are.
“I use metric.
I’m not a savage.”
I wanna subscribe again.
I used to think we stuck with the units because we're arrogant and lazy. Then I found a paper for a chemical laser, the kind that shoot down missiles, clearly designed in metric BUT it was published in inches. I think we kept the old system to mess with the Russians. ☺️
That’s actually true at least in submarine warfare. My uncle was a submariner and he said that for depth they still work in feet mainly because it complicates fire control for a enemy who works in metric. Even to the extent of having their cruising depths being deliberately a non metric depth. Like how if you’re at 400 feet that’s 121m. Just calculate for 120m and that’s close enough but if you’re at 350 ft that’s 106m. Calculate for 100m and you’re 6m out but calculating for 105m is just that little bit more complex.
@@princeoftonga Can't tell you how hard it is to deal with European engineers or guys in metric only shops. I'll be on the phone or doing a facility tour and I'll start chatting about tolerances switching units on the fly and people's eyes start crossing. It's hilarious.
@John Smith yeah that can understand how that could be interesting. I’m from Britain and of the generation where I kind of learned and used both. Like on the roads we still use miles but for technical and fine measurement things we’ll use metric. It’s really weird when I think about it. Never managed to get to the stage where I could just on the fly convert them in my head (beyond a rough approximation) though. people who can do that are wizards!!!
Metric for anything off papers is dumb as fuck. Inches and feet are way more practical in day to day life.
Also
There are countries that use metric, and there are countries that have their flag on the moon.
Losers.
It actually sounded like he said a woman who just picked up a sword for the first time will lose to a trained male warrior 100% of the time, like he didnt even acknowledge the possibility of a trained female swordfighter. Like at all.
And didn't acknowlegde the possibility that a untrained man would lose to...
yeah and like why would a woman try to fight someone with a sword if she can't fight with a sword ^^ if I see someone fight with a sword in a film I assume it's not the first time they've ever picked up a sword unless it's made VERY clear that it is (for comedic effect or whatever).
The Queen was established in an earlier scene as being a warrior, having just come back from a war (or something, was a while ago when I watched it).
Which the queen was trained in.
I can understand a woman raised in nobility not being able to really handle it vs a trained man but same can be said for the otherway around
He was the victim of his own perceptual set.
The interesting thing I noticed when I was instructing archery is that the boys would generally approach it by shooting as far as they can and focusing on power over accuracy, whereas the girls would pick up the technique faster because they would focus on the technique rather than overestimating their skill with a weapon. Remembering the fundamentals and being humble in their estimation of their inherent skill was what made them pick it up faster. I totally believe that a better way to show fight scenes where a woman triumphs over a man is like you said, using technique and quick thinking, as well as knowing when it is better to run.
@@rosssilver Sure, but my point is that if they were in a combat scenario women might find greater success in different tactics. Stealth, traps, and tactics can grant huge advantages, and strength isn't always what determines victory. Even a coffee table can make you squeal like a baby when you stub your toe, even the mightiest of chads can goof.
@@andyskyfall3891 I have instructed archery. I am relaying my experience. All I am saying is that my experience seems to back up the notion that if women see a victory, it is more likely to come from one of those things. And as much as it is a medically proven fact that Men tend to be more muscular, it is a medically proven fact that women tend to be more flexible. As much as it is historically the trend for men to be encouraged to practice combat from a young age, it is just as historically the trend for women to be experienced in crafting things useful for survival or making traps. I don't disagree with the premise of the video that men have an advantage in combat scenarios. I am just saying there are instances where women's strengths might be what happens to win the day, be that through chance or fluke, or whatever.
@@rosssilver What is the point you are trying to make? I am not debating that women don't generally have combat advantage. I am just saying that when choosing between using force or dexterity, women will likely find the most success using dexterity because that's their best physical trait in that scenario, regardless of how it compares to the performance of men. If I could chose between 10 bullets (Strength) and 15 bullets (Dexterity) going up against someone using 20 (Strength) , I'm gonna choose 15 bullets even though it's still less than the opponents 20. Someone with 20 bullets has the advantage, yes. But with men, their choice is likely 17 bullets (Dexterity) and 20 bullets (Strength). Yes Men are better at doing the fighting. That is not what I am arguing. I am saying that my experience backs up the notion that women find more success in sports or fighting or whatever than they otherwise would by using a different set of skills to men .
@@andyskyfall3891 This is my experience. I never claimed it was definitive evidence. But there is literally tons of evidence that girls mature faster than boys, as well as perform better at school.
@@rosssilver Clearly you are not listening to my point and just looking to argue in hopes of making yourself believe that men are better at everything all the time. Again, I am not debating the existence of a biological difference, it is you who is insisting that this biological difference is the crux of my point, when it is not. It's like the notion that women can have skills they are proud of scares you. I hope you can find peace.
I actually follow both these channels so it's funny to see unrelated channels intersect. I did two semesters of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in college a few years ago and a girl in my class went to a family reunion and wrestled with her cousins in a completion - including male cousins. None of them had any training in any type of martial art and she kept beating them even though she like a few weeks of training. She was small and couldnt have weighed more than 120.
That being said, she couldn't beat any of the males in our class because they also had the same amount of training. This happens on the time in Jiu Jitsu where a purple belt with easily man handle a blue belt even when the blue belt is 50+ pouns bigger due to far more training.
So if skill is equal then the winner probably goes to the stronger opponent. Otherwise skill can actually level the playing field pretty quick.
Forgive my grammar
As a gal who practiced European fencing , Medieval Fencing and Kendô for years , i can tell you that YES , women can defeat men in sword-fights , and it's not that hard . When swords and pointy sticks are involved , it doesn't really matter how strong you are , what matters is who hits first , at least when Hema and " sporty " fencing is concerned .
I knew straight away i was never going to hit as hard as my fellow male fencers and kendoka , so i just made sure i was faster instead , and more nimble in general :)
So women would only be good as rogues not warriors? Lol
@@SagaciousNihilist No , of course not . It is not at all what i implied , it was a generality . So cut the "Lols" . As you are probably aware , there are women that as tall , bulky and muscular as any man , if not more . Those women would not be at a disadvantage in a regular sword-fight because they stand on equal ground with your average man .
What i DO mean is : on AVERAGE , due to sexual dimorphism , a woman will have a lesser body mass and muscle mass , putting the average woman at a disadvantage against the average man when some weapons are concerned . So , in order not to be at a disadvantage , your average woman needs to evaluate her strengths and weaknesses and that of her opponent(s) in order to choose a weapon and fighting style that will put HER at an advantage regarding other factors than size and brute force , and thus allow her to compensate for an eventual lack of strength and general toughness in , say , speed and mobility .
And that is entirely applicable for men as well . Especially in fighting sports such as HEMA or Medieval Fencing in general where you can chose your weapon . You have to be aware of your strength and weaknesses and find the weapon that is better suited for you . I personally favour short swords , rapiers and daggers despite being taller than the average woman , but i still lack muscle mass compared to the average man .
of course a woman can beat a man, all people aren't equal. But I know which side i will put my money on in any physical combat ratio of wins. There are like soy boy these days and woman taking testosterone to be like men (guess that is ground for testings and can be disqualify on professional sport), or I seen some born like they are in between...People in poor countries region don't get the food as other country so race demographic size are different. But general combat is about size (good or bad), strength x speed/reflex x endurance on the physical side (muscle). I am not taking about training/skill or mental makeup as that is its own results. Smaller/ pointy weapon can reduce the advantage of strength and some endurance. What this doesn't tell is actual warfare. Strength and endurance plays a huge part. An invader is at a disadvantage to defender. You would have to carry all your food, weapon, gear over hundreds of miles, run thru bomb, fight while injured from other battle or travel. Men have more hgh/testosterone for recovery, stronger bone. Even with the gun, you need to carry amour, carry your own stuff, run thru the battle, fight up hills. Image this in medevil times, not fun. It is not about just all of the sudden standing full strength infront of an opponent (suppose to be witcher battle field). men have been killing each other in for years, the mental makeup is there, billions have died. The hunter mentality. Yes my friend is in kendo and men and women battle all the time, victory going to both side, but one side has more (and more fighters too). I thought reflex would be an advantage, but he said height because of reach is pretty big advantage. On average man would have more reach.
Just here to say i love your flesh tearers profile picture.
We're talking about combat here. Not scoring points in sport. It's cool you were a great fencer but we're talking purely physical combat without rules. Even at age 12 I could feel a physical advantage over my older sister. She was in second year in college & played fastpitch softball. She teased me growing up. Wrestling, putting me on the ground, sitting on me, etc. I remember the day she stopped. It was because she tried to put me in a chokehold from behind and smash my face into a pile of leaves outside during Thanksgiving break. Except I grabbed her wrist & could control her arm. Not through leverage or twisting her wrist. It was strength. At 12. And I felt the change in strength. And she was super in shape. Had catcher's legs & arms.
Shadiversity: thinks this video is controversial because he’s talking about gender differences
The real controversy: “I use metric, I’m not a savage!”
As one of the rest of the world I find it amusing. Nothing against USA either btw
As someone used to the metric system I find all those feet, ounces and fahrenheits deeply confusing.
How on earth are 5 feet 11 almost 6 feet? What on earth is a gallon? What devil conjures up such madness?
@@catburglar82 The measures were ergonomic rather than mathematical. The average human has little trouble handling a gallon/4-liters. You try lugging a dekaliter, and you're going to have problems. A liter is a quart and is often too small. They were also the result of two nations' measuring systems colliding. The AngloSaxon and the Norman, like the language, it results in a convoluted system but it's easy to understand and deal with if you are used to it.
The hilarious thing is that the Metric System had to be completely overhauled in the 1960's because of the inherent inconsistencies of the system that were becoming troublesome as the precision of manufacturing and science kept running into them.
@@catburglar82 the irony is that in order to understand something you have to fathom it. The fathom is an imperial unit!
@@catburglar82 The English... That's the devil... It was the British Imperial System, we use an altered version of that because we were a British colony. When the metric system was created in the early 19th century in France, it was very radical and even changed the hours on the clock. Given that, and the issues France had with Napolean and revolutions at the time... The USA couldn't send a delegate over to learn the metric system from them.
Since the mid 19th century though, the USA has put Acts in place for the switch to Metric.. The issue is they are voluntary, so towns and states can and did/do refuse to switch to Metric simply because it is costly. The amount of infrastructure and supplies the USA would have to change to make the switch, are far more than any multiples of other countries in the world, that the cost is just staggering. It could be done, but it would take a very very long time and so much money that I just don't see it being a forced law anytime soon.
That being said, the newer generations know much more of the metric system than given credit for, and schools teach it along side the imperial system... Your average American does know both systems.
One thing to take into account in this scenario would be speed. There’s a line from the 2002 film “The Count of Monte Cristo” where Richard Harris’ character makes the comment that the stronger swordsman does not necessarily win”. In a sword fight being faster can give you a significant advantage over a stronger opponent.
True, and men are faster as well. Lol
@@garbajful not in every situation. I mean if a woman is a speed oriented fencer while the man is a strength oriented fencer, the woman would win in that instance
People also take out the biggest one in wars, exaustion.. The biggest man on the field can be taken down by the smallest man if the big guy has been swinging his sword for the past hour.. And if that's the case, a women fresh into battle could very easily take down a wounded or tired man.. Like the men in wars were all in poverty and not exactly the healthiest of men.. And average men vs average women, it can come down to skill.. especially once a weapon is involved.. While a lot of men would win, its not all.
What's the point in everyone pointing out the rare exceptions? Bottom line is the overwhelming majority of women can't go toe to toe with men. There's always aberrations, but so what...
@@HasselHoffman-im5he There's always exceptions. I'm talking about the rule.
the great, great grand daughter of Ghengis Khan was, though royalty and cousin of Kublai Khan, a warrior woman (mounted archer) that would wrestle men and always win. She was undefeated. Her names are: Khutulun, Aiyurug, or Aijaruc, all referring to moonlight. there was a Chinese Buddhist nun (Ng Mei) who invented Wing Chun and defeated many men, led a rebellion and killed a traitor (and a kung Fu master) to the Shaolin temple in a duel on 8 foot tall posts with sharpened bamboo spears waiting for whoever fell or was knocked off the posts.
Yes, a woman of a royal family competing and winning all the time against men of the lower class. In sure they did their best and weren't simply allowing her to win out of fear or respect. Surely.
why is nobody intriged by the fact she even HAD a sword in battle as her main weapon? thats not a duel thats a battle where is your horse and lance for god's sake?!
How brave of you describing that pit brawl as a battle. To be honest I was so put off by that rave party of soldiers that they could have been werewolves wielding rocks and I would not have noticed.
In woods hills or small fields armies cldnt charge to use lances or if their army was mostly infantry, south poland is hilly. Charging is risky horse can hit hole or myd and u fall off so leaders may skip that n stay back, horse w saber was safer n lances were minority from mongols to civil war cavalry. Lances r cool though. East europe also had smaller horses n less armor , west got lance heavy til english arrows killed these big horse targets in droves. Vikings were use to boggy groung w few bridges so cldnt count on horses so stayed w foot combat, i guess, e poland is swampy. I am totally guessing. Caltrops wld b my choice to beat cav army. : ). Spears bravely used cld beat horse lancers, only in age of meak peasants did knights rise to dominate,,, horse archers r the best makes lances look stupid ala mongols. ; ). I am rambling for fun
To be fair, it's pretty clear they are not going for historical accuracy there: the main characters fight with no helmet (and one of them gets shot in the head by an arrow because of it) and there's a brief clip of a soldier wearing one getting an axe through his skull. The blade literally goes through the metal like it was kitchen foil.
That would bother me more than anything to be honest xD
That battle scene was one of the worst parts of the series. The lioness of cintra is supposed to be a tactical genius winning her first battle at 14 but this battle is a complete tactical mess. They have the archer and cavalry advantage, yet fight on a hilly battlefield where they see the enemy only roughly 100m before lines clash. Also they knew Nilfgaard was on the march, yet they somehow act as it was a complete surprise for the army to appear there must have been weeks to prepare a proper battlefield and strategy.
@@Astropeleki .. Yeah bad battle scene. Game of Thrones had few shields helmets horses or bows just running up w sword HAHA. .. PS Hero never played Gwent on tv darnit like in game!
When he said "i have four children" i thought he said "i have fought children" and i got a bit concerned lol.
I have fought children, too. When they tried to get back the cherry ice cream I've stolen from them. It was a bloody mess and I had to get rid of the red stains all over the place.
"How To Fight A Baby" video starts appearing in recommendations again.
When the Mind Flayer sent their army of children at me, I knew there would be a lot of cherry icecream on the battlefield.
I fight children every day... I'm a mother..
Shad was Anakin all along
Onna-Musha were an example of women trained to defend the household during times of war, but apparently there are also historical examples of them fighting alongside other Bushi of the different times, so that's interesting :)
I did foil when I was younger, and since I was shorter than pretty much everyone I fought, I relied on getting under their reach, or being better than my opponent at lunging attacks.
Foil isn't real combat though, so it doesn't really count.
I'm reasonably sure this has popped up somewhere in these comments already, but for a while there, *recently*, the top longsword fencer in the world was a woman.
So, y'know.
out of curiosity what is her name? and is the she top women's duelist against other women or the top duelist against both women and men?
@@jarudesandstorm6961 It took me a minute to be sure I was finding the same woman I was thinking of!
The woman in question goes by 'Samantha Swords' (cringe and let it pass! Her real name appears to be Samantha Elizabeth-Mott) and the event she won was the Harcourt Park World Invitational Jousting Tournament, in 2013.
This was either a Hema event, or HEMA was how she ended up at it. Of note, while the event was a mixed-gender competition, obviously it can't quantitatively be called a full gauge of every relevant combatant worlwide. If one is going to consider that a game-breaker detail, that's on me.
@@Pyre cook thanks! I'll looke her up! 😊
Obviously I, a man, even tough I`m out of shape and don`t fence, would beat her 100% of time thanks to my superior male force
@@GhPadua ur comment is so cringy
An informed, measured and fair response that doesn't drag someone else through the mud on RUclips... I feel like I am in an alternate dimension. It's so refreshing to hear a professional critique of comments made, rather than a personal attack, Great job Shad!
No kidding! Exactly what I thought.
@Maximus Brutus I disagree. I thought he presented pretty good arguments, all without demonizing the man he was countering.
You present a good question though, "has any woman at HEMA ever actually won against a man?", and I think he answered yes to that, though it's easy to miss. It would've been great if he'd shown video footage of a woman beating a man in one of these tournaments in order to prove his point rather than just showing pictures to prove that these sword fighting classes are mixed, however, I don't think it's impossible for a woman to defeat a man in armed combat if she happens to be particularly skilled.
As for his explanation for why women didn't fight in wars, boiling down what he said to "boys are more violent" is misrepresentative. What he said was more complicated than that, and had more to do with men naturally being more *protective* rather than *violent,* as well as factoring in the fact that women give birth, and thus making them more vulnerable while pregnant, and even after pregnancy, among other reasons he didn't name.
Not to mention, that a society with less men than women can survive just fine, but a society with less women than men is a problem in terms of future generations.
So no, it is not because "boys are more violent".
I hope to have a very fruitful discussion with you about this, and that I don't come across as too harsh.
@@leirawhitehart1236 You probably shouldn't massively misquote people if you want a fruitful discussion tbh.
@@joshuabacker2363 how did I misquote you? You asked two questions, if a woman ever won against a man in a HEMA tournament, and if "boys are more violent" was his answer for why women didn't participate in wars, and I answered both.
Well, actually one really, as I didn't know the answer to the other one. But as far as I know, I didn't misquote you, and if I did, I didn't mean to.
@@leirawhitehart1236 "how did I misquote you? You asked two questions"
No, I did not. learn to read.
I appreciate your way of dealing with this situation. I'm happy to listen and excited to hear your opinion.
Hey Shad, I recently subscribed to your channel and just wanted to say I'm loving the content! I respect how you pointed out the flaws in Andrew's views without trash talking him.
Durring the Edo period of Japan, the wives of Samurai who had castles, so the wealthiest ones, WERE trained in armed combat and it was their job to defend the castle and their family if the lord was away or even join him in battle in dire circumstances. So, yeah, there are moments like that that prove him wrong.
But like that's home turf and not a horde of people coming at you
@@kitofwhales4440 That's why they set traps for intruders.
@@kitofwhales4440 whether or not it was a siege or an open battlefield, training is training. On an open battlefield she probably wouldn't take much part in the fighting, that being said in case she needed to be relied upon she was trained for it.
Anyone with a sharp weapon is dangerous, someone who has been trained to use that sharp weapon is even more dangerous. I doubt she was as strong as her husband or other men, but you don't go to the gym to get better at sword fighting.
And 'a horde of people' coming at her is also charging at another 'horde of people'. she wouldn't fight alone.
They also used the naginata, not the katana. If things got that close it was mostly trying to take your enemy with you, not actually any real hope of winning.
I've seen conflicting reports on that. That they were definitely expected to defend the home etc... But that they were trained seemed to be more spotty historically.
“There are no guarantees in battle.”
Not sure where I heard that, but it makes sense.
I've heard similar quotes. I've more often heard "I only have to get lucky once to beat you."
@MARK PEARSON That's pretty weird unless that 13 yo is absolutely gigantic compared to you, even then most 13yo are shit at fighting.
it does not matter
who said it or when as
long as it is true.
case in point. KJV Bible Judges 4:21.
an entire war was won by a single
tent peg and hammer, by the hands
of a single weak woman!
@MARK PEARSON then you'd be dead
Murphy's Law
This is an interesting, sensible, and insightful video, Shad! Probably one of your best. I honestly don't understand why some people get so sensitive about swordswomen or female warriors in general.
I absolutely loved the show "Into the Badlands". Not that the show was realistic about the physics of swordplay (everyone does lots of superhuman leaping and acrobatics, "fanstasy" like shad said) but all the martial arts and sword training and very well choreographed so the duels are very smooth and enjoyable to watch.
Anyway, point is, that show has a woman among its top sword duelists... The Widow. She's easily top three on the show, alongside Sunny (the main character) and Quinn and is essentially established by the end to be the best duelist on the show outright. Interesting thing here, spoilers to follow, is that when she losses to those two men it's essentially always portrayed to be because they managed to get her stuck in a situation where it came down to raw strength (blade locks, pushing, and the like) and she couldn't overcome that. When she wins, especially by the end of the show where she's got the notable advantage in skill/is more seasoned, it's generally portrayed as being because she outmanuevered the enemy, utilized graceful precision, abused her superior flexibility, and outwitted the opponent (ie. She wins her final fight with Sunny, primarily, by keeping her cool while he's bloodlusted, recognizing an open in his guard, getting a disarm with a second trick weapon he didn't know she had, and then holding her blade to his neck).
Show did a good job, imo, of making its top female fighter's clashes with its top male fighters reflect her advantages and disadvantages (namely raw strength). Definitely worth the watch for anyone who likes martial arts shows with lots of swordplay :)
Can a woman beat a man in swordfight? Sure. She just will most likely need a certain type of sword and fighting style depending on what she's up against.
You know, like ANY sword fighter might have to do for ANY situation.
You said it perfectly.
@@calculator91 You start off calling anyone who could disagree with you an "autist". Classy. Klavan didn't make a general statement so much as an absolute one. Since he made an absolute statement then one example is all that's needed to disprove his claim.
@@danmorgan3685 only siths deal in absolutes...
Problem is that its been used to muddy the waters to dismiss a basic truth, the one Klaven alluded to with hyperbole, sure even a child could possibly under some very unique scenarios take out a man with a sword, but the chances are very much not in their favor.
@@Reisboy_PhD you are strong and wise and im very proud of you
"I use metric, I'm not a savage."
I see how it is..
I look at it like this metric prominent in areas lacking freedom🤣
There are two types of countries.
Those that use metric
And those that have been to the moon!
Who’s the savage again? 😉
that was my same reaction 😂
*unsubscribed*
@@josephb.7004 **
(mic drop)
@@josephb.7004 Have been to the moon using metric ;D
I really appreciate someone breaking this down decently and fairly without trashing someone or writing them off as some kind of monster. Very refreshing!
I feel like, compared to a lot of even worse movies, I did like Atomic Blonde. It's hammed up for the screen but she did get tossed around a lot and beat up (as contrasted to movies where the woman get by with zero scrapes and makeup perfect).
Also loved you point about the Laura Croft fight! It's nice to see a few good female fights still exist lol
"women have won against men in competitions" did those competitions allow for grappling, kicking, pushing, fatal wounds? Or was it a scoring system based more on reaction time than actually fighting
In modern fencing it hardly matters, because if i were put you there with no armor at all, and give you a steel sword, then you are pretty much in same situation. Swords can deal a lot of damage with very little force, if it hits an unarmored part. And unless, if you are spartan style trained maniac, then the pain will distract you badly. Even if the wound is not fatal, or limiting.
Problem comes when armor is in place. Which is 100% of the real life wars. Once armor added raw strength becomes a factor, and that is where the woman will get a hell lot of disadvantage. Though it's still not 100% loss, but i would say 99%.
@@akuladoctor7355 thats my point. Modern sports are not medieval war. Unless women were destroying men in those sports, theres no actual point being made about women having an equal ground on physical confrontation
Well considering how some of the greatest sword fighters were women who led armies and fought in battle against men. Yeah I would say so.
@@AmazingStoryDewd You have been watching way too much TV
@@AmazingStoryDewd can you name literally one? I’m not talking about archers or commanding troops but actually winning sword fights against men
"You are only as good as your last fight" -Fiore de Liberi, Itallian renessance duelist
Renaissance*
*only as good as your last spelling
Did he mean your last fight as in the most recent fight you've had, or your last fight as in the one that is your end?
@@emlmm88 basically, "skill level" cannot be standardized and measured but only concluded by others after looking at all the duels one go through, therefore there is not much value talking about hypothetical match ups based on one's skill they show in previous battles
@@xiuqitan446 Oh I've got you. So he's saying that the skill of a swordsman is so nonlinear and dependent so many variables that you can't accurately extrapolate to predict hypotheticals.
i was doing "verdadera destreza" swordfight,and my instructor was a woman,i could not beat hear no matter how many time i train,she moves like water
Be water my friend- Bruce Lee.
@@jeangale6914 I am only 60% water...
Try tackling her to the ground so hard she can't breath, then see if you win...
Beacause "verdadera destreza" was made to use your ability not your strength. It was the best style of dueling in its time.
A woman can fight as well as a man but in ancients times (in a unconscious way) womens was see as the future of the population, less mens didn't matter but less womens means less population for the next generation.
Kick her in the vag.
Did Shad ever do a video on what would have to change (or added) to allow women a stronger role in combat in fantasy settings?? Really interested on this subject.
It's a relief to see the top rated comments here are level-headed. So much of the political content here in America has a bunch of people bad-mouthing the commentator or someone they're talking about. I'm not an exception to that when it comes to certain people, but I don't want to make it a habit every day. Thank you so much for being mature and thoughtful in your response, Shad.
Shad: “I use Metric, I’m not a Savage!”
Me, who doesn’t use metric: “How dare you! I shall paint your holdings in goats blood for this insult!”
Yes, about five stones' worth!
Indeed! Shad shall rue this day!!
I find it absolutely hilarious that a flame war is raging in the comments and it has nothing to do with the controversial and politically charged topic of this video.
Also metrics is for the unenlightened barbarians. For god's sake the French invented it.
Nah why be bothered by their petty insults they metric system users claim superiority but it is not their flag in the moon.
@@frking100 The Apollo Project used metric, get that pride right back down
i remember getting my butt handed to me constantly by a girl half my size and weight when i was training in taekwondo. Why? she was a brown belt and a winner of seven local tournaments and i was a white belt with an attitude who needed to be brought down a peg. Anyone who says women will lose 100% of the time against a guy (be it armed or unarmed combat) obviously doesn't know about the advantages of skill and tenacity in a fight. those two combined ignore gender, size and weight difference.
Well that and how modern weapons are deadly without any help.
Especially since not every man and woman are the same size. There are women who a 6' and men who are 5'3". Being 'on average' bigger and strong in no way means that's true in all settings. Men are on average faster than women, but that just means in a 5k the fastest man will be faster than the fastest woman. The fastest woman will still be faster than most of the men. Humans actually have very little sexual disparity compared to other species.
Taekwondo is full of rules,if you did real fighting the bigger person would win 90% of the time
sounds like me when i was a kid.. except i didn't do any fighting sports till i was 9 wich is when i got into kickboxing.. as a kid my stepbrother was bullied A LOT and he was too afraid to do something about it so one day at the playground (mind you i was 8 or 9 at the time and my step brother is several years older so these kids were about 11/12 years old..) i asked him wich kids were the ones that were bullying him.. so imagine this an 8/9 year old girl that looks pretty adorable and harmless walking over to a group of 3 older boys that towered over her telling them to stop bullying her stepbrother. they kind of replied with a so? what are you going to do about it? before i just straight up punched the leader of the 3 in the nose so hard i knocked him out and broke his nose.. i remember the other two not knowing how quick they had to run because their friend was just falcon punched into oblibion by a little girl they of course immideately went to the guys parents and me and my stepbrother went home.. later that day his parents were at the door quite cross because well their "angel" of a son had been punched in the face by this alleged little girl. so my dad called me over and asked me to explain to them why i had punched him and that he had been bullying my stepbrother for quite some time already and if they did it again that i would hear of it and come and teach them a lesson again. luckily my dad wasn't angry because he wasn't much different as a kid and he knew that my intentions were to help someone that couldn't defend himself and was bullied just because he was unlucky and had scars on his face from the many jaw operations he had had (he was born with a broken jaw so he was an easy target the fact he had had a brain bleed later on too didn't help either as he lost most of his sight in one of his eyes and his personality changed drastically) basically he was never bullied again and in the end actually ended up making friends with his former bully and to be honest he isn't that bad of a guy now he's an adult
@@TougeWarrior93 well, I think a trained fighter can win against bigger opponents. Actually I know a trained fighter can win.. since I experienced it myself. So I wouldn't say 90%
That same week, when Andrew Klavan had come out and said that, I had just heard the actual extant story from Viking history-called “Ragnar Lothbrok,” there was a Queen making a desperate last stand for the existential fate of her kingdom/community-just like what happened in the first episode of the Netflix “Witcher” show. Monarchs on the battlefield would not be a good idea always, but as a desperate last stand it could doubtless be a necessary point for inspiration: and remember Peterson’s statement that men use the image of female beauty to inspire themselves…particularly with regard to going into battle. ⚔️
1. in central asian cultures fighting women were commonplace. this is where the amazon myth originates from, because for greek exploring the north coast of the black sea to meet female soldiers was very disturbing.
2. an analysis of medieval battlefields in Japan showed 30% female casualties, so a significant proportion of soldiers were women.
It’s always been strange to me that in stories where a smaller man fights a bigger foe (a common trope), people are very willing to acknowledge skill, speed, strategy, motivation etc. They root and cheer for that… But if that smaller person happens to be a woman they cry “Fake!”
Well, when i think of those fights that you speak of its more like a David and Goliath battle. Where the smaller man is the clear under dog and usually has to think creatively to win the fight. There is a good example in at least 2 Indiana Jones movies where Indy is getting his ass whooped by bigger men, until he uses his environment to his advantage. People cry fake when it's like bat woman or atomic blonde where its just pure fantasy, as in the smaller woman just walks through the bigger men like they are made of paper (excluding women with super powers). Who would be a more believable super ass kicker in melee combat, Arnold Schwarzenegger or Clint Eastwood? Nothing against Clint but he isn't as muscular and physically intimidating as Arnold.
People who think women can beat up men watch too much television.
Because men are protectors, women are mothers. Men should fight, women should not. Why does everyone want women to have to endure brutal fights?
I've been married for 4 years
And my wife, while slightly shorter then me, is SIGNIFICANTLY bulkier then me and it's mostly muscle
I use to do weight lifting, and I met her there
She outlifted me at every point
And at the end, when I was completely outclassed (even though I'm a stronger guy) there was only one thing on my mind, love 😅
@@dragonwarriorz1 no one wants them to, dont know where you got that from?
But the honest truth of the matter is, you shouldn't underestimate women, that's what people want
Well, as we all know, swords weighed 'five to ten pounds' because they had built-in estrogen detectors, fabricated right in the hilt. That way, if the hand that gripped the hilt was, in fact, of the feminine persuasion, the sword would cease to become a sharpened implement of stabbity death, and would transform into a frying pan, to inform said woman that she really should return to the kitchen.
Indeed
I don’t know if I should laugh, yell boo or slowly clap while grinning... ah hell I’ll do all of them😂😠👏😁
Ah yes, but if you've studied the historical treatise "Disney's: Tangled", you'd recognise the frying pan for the powerful weapon that it is.
Ross Morton
Ah a fellow historian and scribe no doubt🧐
@@rossmorton7002 and if you played the highly historical world war 2 simulator Player Unknown battlegrounds you'd understand how impenetrable frying pans are
I love that you have have to whole wheel of time series on your book shelf on camera. :)
Unfortunately, Shad, I have to disagree with your arguments. You are arguing from the perspective of sport, whereas Klavan is making an argument for war. These are very different situations. While a female may be able to score hits on a male target at slightly decreased rate on average, her capacity to severely wound or incapacitate is far lessened. Fights to the death usually require multiple successful strikes (especially when armor is involved) to incapacitate the aggressor. Strength and durability (bone density/muscle density) are far more important in real combat versus sport combat. A male is far more likely to survive/shrug off a blow to his helmet from a female strike with a hammer than a female is to from a male strike. While the helmet may be the same, the durability of the creature inside it is not.
Note, I do agree that the presence of weapons does lessen the physical differences between the sexes, but not nearly enough in terms of martial combat. A woman would need to have exceptional skill over the male counterpart in order to overcome the physical disadvantage. This is not impossible, just highly improbable.
You have to also add the fact that they are fighting soldiers who have killed people before! That is a huge advantage even against a physically capable civillian.
Then what about female samurai who not only survived war but excelled at it? There is historical evidence of them
@@richardgutermuth2043 Read my last paragraph again.
but if woman use pan U die in one strike
Anyone even know what happens to someone's head if it gets hit by a hammer with a helmet on because i dont so it just sounds like a messy example to use to me.... if it's heavy enough, literally just letting gravity do everything would probably already be enough to stun a guy, even if it doesn't have the weight to do that I still don't think it would require much force to stun someone...
"where you're swinging this five to ten pound sword again and again and again"
Solution: use a three pound sword and don't miss.
Better solution: use a bow and shoot the attacker through the throat
Best solution: Instead of using a sword or a bow, since this is the Witcher, study hard and learn magic to A) smite your enemies or B) imbue your blade/bow with various flavors of smite to smite your enemies
@@willhyde5026 unlike swords, the usefulness of a bow does scale directly with how strong you are. So it doesn't make sense to have the women use bows. Unless you're desperately trying to keep them alive, I guess.
Use crossbow?
Use a nonlongbow, like horse archers.
Use a poissonned blade.
Better yet, use blowdarts, or slingshots.
David did accept Goliath's call to duel (was that called a duel?🤷). He didn't accept his call to fight with same weapons (or exactly the same weapons) and same style. And one can certainly fit ones weapons to oneself, if one is a QUEEN.
Maybe hers is a valerian sword?
*_$imp_*
My favorite quote from history is, "God created man and woman; Samuel Colt made them equal."
Just to keep in mind that tools are not to be disregarded.
Melee combat and using guns is not even remotely the same thing. A 6 year old could easily kill you with a gun, not in a sword fight.
@@QarthCEO Swing and a miss. Read the whole of my comment, think on it, and try again.
Yes, but firearms are not swords.
@@droe2570 You made contact but tipped it foul. Swords aren't guns but both are tools. A gun is a greater equalizer than swords, but a sword will bring things to an even keel too. You're are taking the quote too narrowly.
@@QarthCEO That's an extension of the point.
A weaker person is almost always gonna lose hand to hand
A blade narrows that gap a lot and scales with skill
And a handgun removes strength and size from the equation almost entirely so long as you have skill
I do not believe this could have been answered in any other way effectively addressing this issue that is more than a yes no situation. Thank you shad for being there and laying it out in a way that I would have failed to externalize these thoughts.
When Andrew Klavan said that swords were 5-10 lbs, I immediately knew that he was a D&D player in the early days. Gary Gygax had no idea how much swords weigh, and all of the people who grew up with more D&D than swords in their lives think that swords are super heavy.
2.5-3kg is pretty heavy to swing at full force for ten minutes, though.
I haven't played a DnD, but for some reason I heard a lot that real swords weight like 5-10kg. I wonder where it came from...
Love how you can address (and correct) this situation without getting personal, spiteful, or over-the-top with your rhetoric. I agree with your assessment (having trained many women in grappling and marital arts), but I'm sincerely impressed by the way you kept your discussion civilized.
MauLer "So Shad.... Why do you hate women?" *EFAP Burst out laughing*
People don’t understand that all it takes is one good strike and you could be dead or gravely injured-you don’t need to fight in a long duel if you can end it in less than 10 seconds. (Most professional fencing fights last barely 2)
It was quite cool to learn that sword fighting sports are a lot of the time mixed gendered, something I hadn't thought about but appreciate learning! "Weapons are equalizers", that's pretty neat
Well I guess in medieval times a man who is trained as a knight for his entire life would beat a medieval woman who has never picked up a sword in her life well yes he would win. However Anyone who is a trained swordsman will always beat an untrained swordsman, male or female..
The same is true for any martial art. Even something like Judo or Jujitsu is more skill than strength, and there are numerous examples of significantly smaller, weaker martial arts practicioners going to town and obliterating much larger, stronger opponents.
Skill and training is far, far more important than pure strength. Strength can help out in equal footing situations, but rarely is a deciding factor, and is one of the most easily mitigated with training. A well trained woman would almost always beat a poorly trained male, regardless of strength. There is always room for blind luck, as even the best practitioners of any martial form can be beaten by a lucky punch/stab/etc., But this is not the expected outcome.
Medeival warfare in particular had almost nothing to do with brute strength, and was geared towards organization of troop movement. A well organized and trained army of average sized average strength people will practically always beat an army that relies on brute strength.
As for why women rarely were drafted, it's pretty simply. In pre-Modern times, nursing could go on well into three, four, or five years, and typically you would find women giving birth much more often, with pregnancy occurring almost as soon as possible after the previous pregnancy. Someone needed to feed the kids, and it's pretty damn hard to fight if you are pregnant or nursing.
@@Sean-mq7wt and what are those army compose of? Yes all of them are men. The issue here is medieval war! Medieval wars are hellish and brutal because, men have to carry over 20lbs of baggage while marching in kilometers away and expecting a sudden enemy ambush or attack. I'm not downgrading women here, I'm just stating facts. If women are effective in war then why don't we see a company size military unit compose of them?
@@jamesmanuel8517 Here's a fun fact: In pre-modern times, people had kids almost as soon as they were able to. You can't go to war if pregnant or nursing, and that was frankly common.
As for carrying that gear, understand that women carry huge loads in non-industrialed nations. In modern times in Africa, women will 5 gallons of water (41 pounds, 20kg), with ease, over many, many miles daily. In the Americas, women would pull sledges packed to the brim with goods. Hell, a non-industrial woman would like mop the floor with most modern men in the US by their strength given the amount of physical labor they do.
@@Sean-mq7wt dude what I said is on war circumstances, I know what women can do in terms of workload, my Grandma has done it in WW2 considering she work at shipping bay at indianapolis for over 12 hours per day.
The example I can give you about brutal ancient wars are the romans, the ninth legion march for 15-20 km (what historians estimated) to the teutoburg forest a border from saxony to northern rhine where there are ambushed by the combined northern tribal forces. The fighting continues for hours considering that they even reached the kalkriese narrows in which they were wiped out mostly of exhaustion and outnumbered. In medieval wars, stamina and overall strength is the most important aspect and I'm not downgrading women here it's just that they were not designed in this kind of gruesome warfare. But in this age women has a chance to go pn the frontlines, on medieval wars Female commanders such as joan of arc who were at the back holding the important banner while watching and facilitating the ongoing battle at front that I can agree but i will not agree in an army compose of females. That just a fact!
James Manuel you do realize culture plays an important role. I’d say women can ride a bike as well as men can (not racing just normal average riding) yet in some countries women were prohibited from riding a bike. Women can also do a lot of jobs as well as men yet they weren’t allowed to work for centuries.
I really like how calm, collected and respectful you stayed in this video. Fantastic work
Spencer Ricker I was thinking the exact same. GG Shad.
Agreed.
And I really like how you comment it without "quoting" or using "...Name:..." like everyone else :)
Have to agree. It shouldn't have to be said... but in the age of internet shouting matches and verbal warfare it is incredibly nice to see a respectful, level headed and objective response to a controversy. My faith in humanity lives another day, it seems.
@@2287nemo Unless it's star wars, I always get greeted with friendly Shad and that definitely shows hope
Let's not confuse competitions, with life and death situations.
No rules in a melee
You obviously didn't read the comment from the female SCA fighter/trainer. Almost no rules on their battlefields either.
Again. Your confusing a competition. With a life and death situation. A melee is still a competition even if there aren't any rules. I bet you can't kill a person for one, can you? there's a rule right there.
@@rightinthedome9973 SCA battles are as close as practical to fights to the death except no deliberate killing, only plenty of injuries.
@@johndododoe1411 yet still not fighting to the death
I like the way Brandon Sanderson puts it. The way he uses shardplate in the way of kings where the differences percentage wise between 4 and 7 is way bigger than the difference between 54 and 57 where yes there still make be a difference or disadvantage but it is negligible at the point of having an equalizer
Taking the "man are in average stronger, higher, heavier than girls" and deduce that "no woman can beat a man" is basically not understanding how statistics work. The real truth is : in combat, the bulkier has an advantage (not ultimate, but a big one), and that advantage is MOST OFTEN going to be on the man, because he has the most chances of being the bulkier.
I've been facing women that were bulkier, stronger, even heavier than me in MA (and i'm not a light person), and got my ass handed to me. The man isn't always the bulkier, it's just a tendency.
It's basically like saying "No chinese will ever be taller than a dutch", or "no man will ever live longer than a woman". I think it's pretty baffling to see that people misunderstand statistics and tendencies that badly.
@Mickey D "Historically" means nothing. What period ? What country ?
The idea that women are frail things is very cultural, and very much a bourgeois-XIX century concept. Women worked the fields like men in western europe during most of the high medieval era, and still do in many countries today.
So would a peasant woman be stronger than the son of a tailor, for example ? Very likely. Strength is less a matter of nature, and more a matter of what you're doing with your life.
Sure, the fallacy is to think : "women athlete are weaker than male athletes" and "regular men are stronger than regular women". But a woman athlete is stronger than a regular man, so it is absolutely believable that a woman can train to beat a man, especially if he isn't trained or used to physical labor
He’s talking about war. he means fighting all day and still be able to go toe to toe with another man. That’s where women will fall. Unless it’s big Bertha out there majority of women are not going to have the average strength a man does that late in a battle.
Francois Marchant women being more frail than men isn’t a 19th century concept, you socialist poop pile. It’s been a thing since humans were hunter gatherers lol
@MARK PEARSON pretty sure there are many women that could utterly decimate you with pure strength
MARK PEARSON I feel like you are a troll, and hope that you are. But if you’re not. What do you hope to get out of this? Why do you think these statements are necessary?
"How many women have you seen get into a fight vs. Men?"
Honestly, about the same if not more. Probably not valid though cause I grew up in Florida
At least in clubs i worked at, women will flat out pick a fight with a guy and then taunt them with "what are you gonna do hit me bitch?"
@@w4ntedm4n92
Well then, they are lucky that ive never been to those clubs. Cause i would deliver them a fistful of defense of others. After asking them to stop and await police, of course, im not going to potentialy kill someone without a warning. But if they continue after that, ill most certainly aim to deck them as quick as possible.
@@rtg5881 Lol no you wouldn't
@@w4ntedm4n92 Will let you know if i ever plan to visit any clubs at all, deal? Its unlikely that i will, but you know, just in case.
@@w4ntedm4n92
But yeah. i would and most likely i will come across a chick beating her spouse at some point. If i think of you, ill let you know if i have to and if so if she wakes up. Plus video.
zazqilla already mentioned Julie d'Aubigny, and that's a pretty good example. I'd like to change one word in the phrase "The better the weapon the more even the equation gets", swapping out "better" with "lighter" for the sake of clarity.
She'd have had a tougher time with a longsword.
Is everyone forgetting that the Witcher is a fantasy, not reality? Fantasy sometimes have shorter men fighting overpowered villains that they couldn't defeat in real life. No one gets upset because it's freaking fantasy.
"I use metric, I am not a savage." Real talk.
As someone who is an American and uses the Imperial System.....I totally agree with ya XD
W meter, centimeter and kilometers \[T]/
I fully support the United States’s sovereign right to use our own standards and measurements. Get figged.
@@scottydu81 Guess what ? No one care
@@scottydu81 I have the right to smack myself in the face with a hammer. You have to respect my right to do so, not my idiotic decision to do do.
There was actually a major event in Ireland in the seventh century called the "synod of Tara" where the Irish nobility and clergy gathered and agreed to exempt women from warfare, they were expected to train with weapons, and to defend their homes in case of attack, and is supposed to have been a direct result of a war (largely spurred on by Saint Columba) where a large number of Irish women had died in battle, significantly impacting both population and daily life
Bloody Ireland where everyone has to be a badass..
Minor correction; That was the Synod of Birr.
Reminds me of the time a unit of Romans obliterated a group of Gothic youths. Only after the battle were they surprised to find they were women. I am sure the ladies stood their ground bravely, but they died quickly.
@Elizabeth Bennett Would never disagree with you there
@Melvin Deeply Nice anecdote, but men usually hold back against women unless their lives are at stake. Women initiate 50% of all domestic violence but they make up over 80% of the hospitalizations. Nothing against your aunty, but reality is what it is.
Completely off topic, but I love how you have Eye of The World twice. Like, you saw that *beautiful* spine and thought "I don't care that I already have it, I need that book"
I very much like the sober and reasonable manner in wich you go into that issue. Refreshing to see on the internet.
By the way, in modern armies female snipers (in Russia especially) are actually considered better sutied to it because they are less impulsive and remain calm in more situations.
Glad to see your being pretty fair to Klavan and just going into why you think he's wrong. I've seen too many youtube video responses that just go into bashing and don't get into anything if substance 😅
You can definitely bash the guy for his underlying views and debunk him at the same time though. Scholagladiatoria managed to do that gracefully.
This is the first time i learn of that person's existence and he really does seem like a proper moron to make such a statement.
Being fair to someone that is just ignorant on the topic is the right thing to do, and yeah Shad is taking the high ground here. But lets be real, Klavan's entire job is to be educated on these topics and communicate them to his audience. He is what I call, "willfully ignorant" and it's profoundly irresponsible. He has an agenda and pushes a type of conservatism that seeks to return american white men back to a time where they were in power. I would show fairness to his audience, but not him.
Class act
Sin9ular1ty he was obviously very crude in his statements, but I don’t think he was trying to be overly articulate. He sounded very riled up already and that he just wanted to get his general point across, and by the end, his statement WAS more correct than false, but I do agree. Someone of his status and responsibilities should correct those mistakes instead of getting defensive. Though, you can hardly blame him for getting defensive towards Twitter. Twitter hates any straight white men, so you can’t help but just try and piss em off for the hell of it. If he fully believes 100% that men will always beat women in a fist fight, he would be accurate over about 95% of the time. If he believes men would beat women the same way in a sword fight then you would be right less than that but still much higher than 50% of the time.
Shad .... Home of the nicest criticism on the internet.....someone make this guy an honorary Canadian already!
One thing I learned in judo class was that in a fight between a big white belt and a small black belt, bet on the white belt; but that's consistent with Shad's point that all weapons are force equalizers. :-)