DF Retro H2O! Water Rendering: Wave Race 64, Quake, Duke Nukem 3D + Many More!

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  • Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
  • DF Retro returns with a two-part showcase covering the history of water rendering in games, starting from the early 90s to and ending with the last-gen consoles! In this first part, we start with a look at 16-bit 2D raster tricks on Megadrive/Genesis, Super NES, NES and Game Boy before moving into the 3D era!
    Note: One little error - N64 was 1996 in Japan, not 1995.
    Subscribe for more DF Retro: bit.ly/DFSubscribe
    Join the DF Patreon to support work like this and get pristine quality downloads too: www.digitalfou...

Комментарии • 1,2 тыс.

  • @dark1x
    @dark1x 6 лет назад +65

    Just wanted to give everyone a heads up - the follow-up episode will hit this coming weekend! I’m working on it now! Kicking off with Mario Sunshine and Blue Storm

    • @radornkeldam
      @radornkeldam 2 года назад +3

      I know I'm 4 years late (actually I already commented back then but it seems you didn't see it), but I'd like to submit a correction to something you said.
      In 13:23 you say that Wave Race 64's passing jetskis don't leave a wake ripple effect in the water. Well, actually, they do. I think the reason you may have missed it may be that the water mesh is relatively coarse and that kind of hides it if you don't pay close attention, particularly if the water isn't really still.
      If you want to see it you need to play championship and get to Drake Lake, complete the first lap so the mist goes away, and immediately turn around and look towards the incoming "traffic" waiting for the CPU racers to come towards you and you'll clearly see the wakes. You'll also notice that each racer leaves a differently intense wake, depending on their body weight, with Mariner being the heaviest and Stewart the lightest.
      The best place to camp in wait for them is just behind the finish line, looking back at the incoming racers clearing the pole maze at the end of the lap.
      Alternatively, you can just look at the captures made by a fellow forum member in a Spanish board back then, when we discussed this video:
      elotrolado (dot) net (slash) hilo_df-retro-evolucion-del-agua-en-los-videojuegos_2294688_s50

    • @Rafayak
      @Rafayak 9 месяцев назад

      What is the song at the start??? I need to know

  • @randytyson
    @randytyson 6 лет назад +464

    For preservation sake. there was a Wii u miiverse account where all of its posts was dedicated to complimenting the water in videogames. No one knows why the user did it, but was part of what made miiverse great
    From sonic boom to donkey kong, there was water effects to compliment.hope he finds this

    • @James2t3
      @James2t3 6 лет назад +46

      RANDY TYSON I scrolled down to the comments to find this reference. Rip miiverse.

    • @gundalfx
      @gundalfx 6 лет назад +75

      Have you watched till the end? This reference is actually shown 😉

    • @Silvergun_Raven
      @Silvergun_Raven 6 лет назад +4

      Is it still available to see?

    • @James2t3
      @James2t3 6 лет назад +24

      Ruben good to see the legend of mariowiiu lives on lol

    • @jorgel1698
      @jorgel1698 6 лет назад +10

      In one of the switch posts there's a collection of games with amazing water

  • @r4k00n5
    @r4k00n5 2 года назад +35

    Can't stop coming back to this, please make a part 3!

  • @frosty6845
    @frosty6845 6 лет назад +89

    Wave Race 64 still impresses me if only because the player interacts with the water beyond making ripples.

    • @senorsnipey1595
      @senorsnipey1595 4 года назад +12

      Id say its still top dog in watersports genre.

    • @adroharv9213
      @adroharv9213 4 года назад +4

      @@senorsnipey1595 yup easily

    • @akaimizu1
      @akaimizu1 3 года назад +5

      Definitely. unlike many others, the Water is in itself the track, and one that changes over time, requiring the player to adjust to the wake and tide level. It isn't, what many others do, a relatively static track, that just happens to look like water.

  • @philscomputerlab
    @philscomputerlab 6 лет назад +161

    Absolutely brilliant. I can't imagine how much work it was to get all the captured footage. One game I remember for its impressive water is Far Cry from 2004.

    • @retroboy-fh1ji
      @retroboy-fh1ji 6 лет назад +4

      PhilsComputerLab the Xbox version was mainly impressive. Fun fact: the games was going to be release on PS2, like The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay, but was cancelled because the system can't handle those games, even with the "Emotion Engine CPU" and its VU0 and VU1.

    • @SeriusSim
      @SeriusSim 6 лет назад +6

      I bet we're going to see some Farcry/Crysis in the next part :)
      I like that Giants Citizen Kabuto also has been included, it's one of my favorite game from the early 2000's era.

    • @michaelaizen1137
      @michaelaizen1137 5 лет назад +1

      For me it would be Ecco the dolphin. We all have our first's.

    • @winlover37
      @winlover37 5 лет назад +2

      Far Cry Instincts was such a beautiful game for the Xbox. Even friends of mine were quite impressed with how well it's aged.

    • @gerboog
      @gerboog 3 года назад +2

      @@retroboy-fh1ji how is this a fun fact? The hardware was about 6 years older then Far Cry.

  • @kaiserrino8774
    @kaiserrino8774 6 лет назад +58

    I remember playing MGS 2 for first time and being blown away by the that first stage. Like mentioned in the video, it still looks pretty good in 2018.

    • @mtoad
      @mtoad 6 лет назад +4

      It looks excellent in 2018 displayed at the proper resolution on a CRT.

    • @oaedeoi
      @oaedeoi 6 лет назад

      im about to play it, too bad there is no ps4 remaster

    • @eponymous7910
      @eponymous7910 5 лет назад +1

      Yep. A shame the big shell was so bland in comparison

    • @so-vp2qh
      @so-vp2qh 7 месяцев назад

      @@mtoadeven on an LCD to this day it holds up

  • @bananachild1936
    @bananachild1936 6 лет назад +24

    Wave Race 64's water physics was so much fun to play around with. I played it with my brother, we kept chasing down the dolphin and ignored the race, laughing around for no reason. Sometimes we'll challenge each other on who can jump the highest by riding the huge waves.
    The water physics felt so much better to mess around with rather than winning the race. Good times.

    • @Rock_Lagoon
      @Rock_Lagoon 6 лет назад +3

      Walther Penne You are kidding right?

    • @GameslordXY
      @GameslordXY 2 года назад

      I played with my mom.

  • @RandomlyDrumming
    @RandomlyDrumming 6 лет назад +146

    One of the best things about DF RETRO series is how it shows the enormous talent of the developers behind games of the earlier eras. It goes on to show how incredibly skilled these people really were as they were completely limited by, from this point of view, very primitive technology. They had to work around hardware limitations and along the way invent new techniques and "hack" the hardware to pull off things it wasn't originally designed for.
    It's relatively easy to be "lazy" today with your code since hardware is so strong that it usually doesn't really matter whether you spend a few more CPU cycles to do something, or whether you spent few dozen megabytes of RAM more. But back in a day, when you were so very limited with CPU, memory (amount and bandwidth), data carriers speed and capacity (floppy, CD), you had to be *very* good at what you do to program and design games with all those things in mind.
    Lastly, the younger generations can learn to appreciate the roots of what they take for granted these days. :)
    cheers!

    • @Daddy137
      @Daddy137 6 лет назад +8

      Check out this channel called GameHut, he goes into depth on how he pulled off some clever tricks

    • @RandomlyDrumming
      @RandomlyDrumming 6 лет назад +3

      Already subbed to GameHut ;) Really nice insight into what it took to pull off many memorable tricks.

    • @Fr0gg0
      @Fr0gg0 6 лет назад +2

      We wouldn't have come this long with todays developers.

    • @evilzinabyssranger5695
      @evilzinabyssranger5695 6 лет назад +6

      Just to do a Propper AD: Back in the day, they couldnt do FIXES and PATCHES (sometimes PATCHES are diguised of FREE DLC to lure people).
      It has to be Very good and it has to be done in ONE shot.

    • @RandomlyDrumming
      @RandomlyDrumming 6 лет назад

      Yeah, not to mention that part... Once it's on a cartridge, or CD, for that matter, for consoles without HDD - it's done! :)

  • @BlazeHedgehog
    @BlazeHedgehog 6 лет назад +10

    A game I should have mentioned to John on Twitter on Twitter but didn't think of until seeing this video: Turbo Prop Racing on the PS1, which does something similar to Wave Race 64's water mesh but runs at 60fps.

  • @purplezebrahoover
    @purplezebrahoover 6 лет назад +4

    Props for using the TMNT NES water level music at the start. You have my support.

  • @4468
    @4468 6 лет назад +11

    I remember when a games water effects was used to judge how good graphics were; every review would mention the water effects especially in the 32-Bit era

  • @GamingPicks
    @GamingPicks 6 лет назад +12

    Excellent video, as always. I also like water effects, some are memorable (ICO's windmill, MGS2 opening...) It's nice to see games like Outcast featured, it also is one of my favorite games of the 90s. Thank you John.

  • @SteelSkin667
    @SteelSkin667 6 лет назад +14

    During the PS2 days I was fascinated by how different games rendered water and fire differently.

    • @TheTimgta
      @TheTimgta Год назад

      Remember Morrowinds water

  • @cbh148
    @cbh148 6 лет назад +5

    WaveRace 64 actually does generate some waves behind the jetskis. Go to 2 player mode, and go to Drake Lake, and pass by a player that's sitting still and you'll see the wake causes the jetski to bounce a bit.

    • @radornkeldam
      @radornkeldam 6 лет назад +1

      Yes, it's subtle, but it's there.
      I guess they should have made that stand out a little bit more, but I can see problems trying to do it.
      I'm also surprised they didn't catch that given the relevance of WR64 and the attention to detail in these videos.

    • @cbh148
      @cbh148 6 лет назад

      I agree. I hate to knock WR64 since it's such a great game, but I can remember even as a kid thinking they dropped the ball on the wake graphics since I couldn't see anything other than the small bit of spray that looked more like white smoke (to the point that I sorta thought it was supposed to be the 2 stroke engine exhaust). I can only assume they wanted to have at least a couple of yards of white textured wake trailing the jetskis (think Jak & Daxter water graphics), but must've been graphically at the limit with all the complex wave modeling.

  • @MetalJesusRocks
    @MetalJesusRocks 6 лет назад +368

    This video is making me THIRSTY!! LOL Fascinating video as always!!

    • @evilkinggumby
      @evilkinggumby 6 лет назад +5

      Considering most of the shots were water in the ocean, that might be a very 'Salty" comment..lolz

    • @johneygd
      @johneygd 6 лет назад

      Yeah indeed, especially since it became just part - of it,DAMNIT!!!

    • @cassiebelmont993
      @cassiebelmont993 6 лет назад +1

      MJR is a simple man you praise Splashdown for PS2 he watches and comments on video.

    • @HX422
      @HX422 6 лет назад +1

      MetalJesusRocks no, that’s no good. That’s why you can’t comment. This video is making ME thirsty!

    • @anotheractionhero8250
      @anotheractionhero8250 6 лет назад +1

      Thats funny, i startet the video and your Baldurs Gate Video came into my mind (and your excitement about the water). Then Baldurs Gate was mentioned in the video and you are in the comments :D By the way, I visit Seattle in September and I will also visit one ore both "pink gorilla" and tha is all your fault (the part with the gorilla).

  • @Silvergun_Raven
    @Silvergun_Raven 6 лет назад +4

    I've always been fascinated with water in video games. Some of my favorites are Super Mario 64, Wave Race 64, Ecco the Dolphin (entire series), Endless Ocean, and the water detail in Onimusha 2 (I still think about it to this day).

  • @mikekarasi8045
    @mikekarasi8045 6 лет назад +46

    Wave Race 64.. I miss your euphoric hyper-reality of dolphins, lush waters, sunsets, umbrella straw margaritas, and amazing sounds in the game. When the lady pronounced the maps it felt like XTC.

    • @MrSergiosampa
      @MrSergiosampa 6 лет назад

      Mike Karasi dolphin? Umbrella? This video in only about WATER...

    • @byteblok
      @byteblok 6 лет назад +2

      Mike Karasi It was magical wasn’t it?...I still get the warm fuzzies when i play it every now and then.

    • @shapeshifter-theamorphousg3264
      @shapeshifter-theamorphousg3264 2 года назад

      Welcome to Mariiine.. Fortress!

  • @isturbo1984
    @isturbo1984 6 лет назад +3

    An amazing and comprehensive look at the technical aspect of a single property in all of video games: Water. this video was a real treat. You guys should do more. Many topics to explore in video game history. And the consistent water themes as bgm was a nice touch. Can't wait for part 2. Next... do Fire!

  • @jonaskristiansen781
    @jonaskristiansen781 6 лет назад +4

    I remember Super Mario Sunshine having some of the most impressive water graphics I had ever seen back when it came out. The water still holds up today in my opinion. Uncharted was the next game to really impress me with the water. What stood out to me especially was when the clothing got wet, only the portion of the clothing under water was affected, while the rest was still dry.

  • @evergaolbird
    @evergaolbird 6 лет назад +26

    You left me thirsty for more water DF Retro. Looking forward for Part 2.

  • @shiru8bit
    @shiru8bit 6 лет назад +10

    I wish you would someday do a DF Retro video on 60 fps in early 3D games, like PS1 and Saturn era - how it was achieved, what had to be sacrified etc. Blasto, Reboot, Motorhead, Tobal 1-2, Dead or Alive, Forsaken, Einhander, Kula World, Rascal, and so on, And how come that so old and limited hardware managed to pull more full frame rate games than most of following platforms.

    • @3dmarth
      @3dmarth 6 лет назад

      Yes, please!

    • @grongy6122
      @grongy6122 6 лет назад

      Какие люди. :)

    • @3dmarth
      @3dmarth 6 лет назад +1

      It would be interesting to collect a bunch of comments from devs on how they achieved 60fps (or why they didn't).
      From what I've seen, though, it typically boils down to:
      30fps devs: You need to make a lot of sacrifices to achieve 60fps- too many sacrifices, when you could be using the extra rendering (and development) time to make the graphics so much better.
      60fps devs: 60 is totally achievable, but you need to make it a priority, not tack it on at the end like just another feature.
      (Paraphrasing Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Retro, and I think one other studio.)

    • @shiru8bit
      @shiru8bit 6 лет назад +1

      Sorry, your answer makes no sense. Hardware acceleration is not a magic wand, it just a term that means some of computation heavy tasks offloaded to dedicated hardware rather than done in software by the main CPU. This concept used since its inception, and it never was retired since then. GPU in any modern system is your HW accelerator, an insanely powerful one. Having HW acceleration does not guarantee any frame rate in 3D rendering, it only helps to speed up rendering, in trade to various limitations (such as affine mapping in early systems).

  • @dreammfyre
    @dreammfyre 6 лет назад +8

    "Why is that 8bit music playing?"
    *shows the TMNT water stage*
    "Ohhhhhh."
    Pretty, pretty, pretty good.

  • @FromPlsNerf
    @FromPlsNerf 6 лет назад +24

    DF you guys are a national treasure

    • @Poever
      @Poever 6 лет назад +5

      FromPlsNerf even though they’re split across two continents

  • @Edmundostudios
    @Edmundostudios 6 лет назад +5

    I remember playing Halo 2 and the scene where you command the tank going over the bridge and the water effects blew me away.

  • @MunkeyChips
    @MunkeyChips 6 лет назад +8

    Anyone remember the highly detailed water in Ratchet & Clank Going Commando? It only exists as an easter egg demo in the game dev museum because it was too taxing to implement in the full game.

  • @TAGMedia7
    @TAGMedia7 6 лет назад +22

    I'm shocked you didn't mention Crash Bandicoot Warped and the water ski stages on PSone. naughty Dog created a Z-Buffer emulator to create the water and wave physics.

  • @justanotheryoutubechannel
    @justanotheryoutubechannel 2 года назад +3

    Hydro Thunder’s water is a really good effect, I would never have guessed the water was flat until you pointed it out, the texture of the waves varies in intensity based on the part of the track, and your boat shakes around and jumps like it’s being bounced around by the waves, so I genuinely thought there was some polygons involved too. I think my favourite part of Hydro Thunder’s water though is the reflections, usually the water surface is just semi-transparent showing the trackbed underneath the water, but there are sections in the track where the entire water surface becomes reflective and it just looks incredible, Hydro Thunder has better reflections than some modern games. It feels so different to the harsh waves of some sections, it’s peaceful and tranquil and beautiful.
    *EDIT:* I went back and replayed the game, the water is definitely a lot more than a flat surface, it’s especially visible in Software mode on the PC version, but on most tracks it’s clearly got some 3D waves even in Direct3D mode, the waves actually move your boat and it gets buffeted around by the water. On Ship Graveyard especially, it’s impossible to think there’s no waves there, there’s a section near the end with *really rough* waves, the strongest in the game, and your ship gets thrown about by them a bunch and they look amazing.

  • @jeremybowers3181
    @jeremybowers3181 6 лет назад +9

    Just want to say DF retro is my favorite segment on you guys's Channel good on ya John!

  • @Elite-bh6pm
    @Elite-bh6pm 6 лет назад +27

    This is a wonderful subject for a video.

    • @jorge69696
      @jorge69696 6 лет назад +1

      Seriously. People are even nice in the comments for a change. I think all DF Retro videos are like this.

  • @noname9935
    @noname9935 3 года назад

    So glad you made this video. This brought back memories. I've been a big fan of the evolution of water in games. Ever since waverace 64, I look at the quality of water in games. We've come a long way..

  • @feyt8009
    @feyt8009 6 лет назад +4

    Water and reflections is the thing that fascinates me the most in video games, thank you for this amazing video, i'm really hyped for the part 2!

  • @evo7836
    @evo7836 6 лет назад

    So glad you guys did a piece on this. Water rendering for me has always been intriguing in seeing the very many different forms, techniques, and implementations that developers have used over the tears.

  • @jackpepperpwb
    @jackpepperpwb 6 лет назад +25

    I'm so glad Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance got a mention, that games water blew my tiny mind as a kid. Hell, it still impresses me now.

    • @enya64
      @enya64 6 лет назад +2

      Jack Pepper Agreed. At the start of this video I was saying to myself "He better mention the Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance water on PS2." All time great water effects...

    • @MrALenCar321
      @MrALenCar321 4 года назад

      Is it available on PC?

    • @jackpepperpwb
      @jackpepperpwb 4 года назад

      @@MrALenCar321 I think it was a PS2 exclusive unfortunately, you might be able to get it running on PCSX2 though. It's been recently updated and is more reliable than ever.

    • @OMGLYKEWOW
      @OMGLYKEWOW Год назад

      I played it for the first time just last year, and it caught my attention. I spent a few minutes running around the circular pool shown at 22:54 just to watch the waves

    • @jackpepperpwb
      @jackpepperpwb Год назад +1

      @@OMGLYKEWOW I did exactly the same thing, just watching the waves collide with each other.

  • @Floatillyboats
    @Floatillyboats 6 лет назад +2

    I remember seeing Waverace 64 for the first time when I got it. It was so amazing and still is for it's time. Another game that had good water a few years later was Starfox Adventures for the Gamecube! And a few years after that was a early game for the PS3 called Lair. It had amazing graphics for it's time!

    • @3dmarth
      @3dmarth 6 лет назад

      Starfox Adventures had amazing water for a 60fps game. Between that, the fuzzy fur, the crisp shadows, etc., Rare proved that good graphics don't need to be sacrificed to get smooth performance!
      Although the water did look pretty silly from certain camera angles, when you'd see a wavy, upside-down Fox in it, as it seemed to be copying its reflections right out of the main frame buffer- meaning it was basically taking a screenshot and flipping it upside-down to create the reflection effect.

    • @M1XART
      @M1XART 6 лет назад

      Yeah, Starfox Adventures managed to better Wave Race 64's water effects. But to think how many years Wave Race 64 was ahead of time on this aspect is quite unique example on evolution of videogames.

  • @philipcooper8297
    @philipcooper8297 6 лет назад +143

    When you have a 1070Ti and all you want to do is to play retro games, because DF told you how cool the water in them was.

    • @Xx_m1k3_0X1onG_xX
      @Xx_m1k3_0X1onG_xX 6 лет назад +19

      When DF makes you want to buy a beast of a pc but DF also makes you want to play retro games

    • @bigboulder
      @bigboulder 6 лет назад +12

      Hey @ least the card wont have problems running all the needed emulators ;-)

    • @Holammer
      @Holammer 6 лет назад +15

      Try some Super Mario Sunshine with a 60fps hack at high resolution. That should quench your thirst.

    • @sEaNoYeAh
      @sEaNoYeAh 6 лет назад +12

      Ah, the joyful paradox of PC gaming. Since upgrading to a rig that can handle anything I want it to the "new" game I've been really into is 17 year old cult classic RPG Anachronox.
      In all seriousness I do think a lot of older games are simply more interesting, even ones I didn't play at the time. Games were less homogenous then, less risk averse and more freely creative. So many AAA games now share half the gameplay with one another.

    • @Thebossstage1
      @Thebossstage1 6 лет назад

      GhostSamurai
      You could argue that its the same with older games too.
      After all, atari flooded the market with mediocre copycat games in the early 80s

  • @SuperSonicish
    @SuperSonicish 6 лет назад

    Made my Sunday to find on starting RUclips that there is a new DF Retro video! Could watch these all day.

  • @MushroomCloudGaming
    @MushroomCloudGaming 6 лет назад +214

    A very in DEPTH video :]

  • @BurningRangers
    @BurningRangers 6 лет назад +1

    I appreciate you including Saturn examples in your video. It amazes me how many people forget about Sega's fifth generation box because it was a commercial failure and geneally only think of the PSX and N64 when thinking back to the late 90s. Dreamcast was a sixth generation console even if it came out early and only lasted a few years before Sega bowed out of hardware.

  • @TheBrownLamb
    @TheBrownLamb 6 лет назад +12

    Man would I love another Wave Race game on the Switch...

  • @NicolasSilvaVasault
    @NicolasSilvaVasault 6 лет назад +3

    water in games have always been an addiction for me, so much that encourage me to develop water shader for my own games, uncharted 4 (ps4), mario sunshine (gamecube) and wakeboarding (ps3) are 3 of my favorites

    • @supersmashmaster43
      @supersmashmaster43 6 лет назад +1

      Uncharted 4 has some amazing water effects. That part of the game where Nate is limping on the beach during the storm blew me away.

  • @TKsh1
    @TKsh1 6 лет назад +57

    Holy shit, Wave Race 64, this game is an classic. Nice video.

    • @cyrfung
      @cyrfung 6 лет назад +3

      Never expected it to be featured on the thumbnail.
      It was my favorite back then. The wave physics was so much fun.

    • @eponymous7910
      @eponymous7910 6 лет назад +1

      I remember owning jet rider/moto for the playstation not long after wave race was released. The water in that game did not compare favourably!

    • @ghostghost8544
      @ghostghost8544 6 лет назад +1

      Classic use to play that game for hours

    • @BritonWells
      @BritonWells 6 лет назад

      the music gets me right away

  • @Shezmen88
    @Shezmen88 6 лет назад +69

    New DF retro video uh? Instant like. ;)

    • @nexter4202
      @nexter4202 6 лет назад +6

      Man... your new Dork Souls animation is fucking amazing

    • @Poever
      @Poever 6 лет назад +1

      You a simple man too?

    • @nexter4202
      @nexter4202 6 лет назад

      obviously :)

  • @leegsy
    @leegsy 6 лет назад +105

    Half Life 2 did good water effects. Still looks okay even today.

    • @seamless8505
      @seamless8505 6 лет назад +3

      The first Far Cry game too, which was released that same year.
      It's also still a very good game, I hope John is gonna mention it in part 2.
      Heck, I think it would even deserve an entire episode; John you probably have a busy schedule but if you read this... :)

    • @ThetaReactor
      @ThetaReactor 6 лет назад +9

      The Lost Coast DLC was groundbreaking at the time.

    • @MrShambles
      @MrShambles 6 лет назад +4

      I think the water in HL2 improved over time with updates and Source Engine upgrades.

    • @washaa
      @washaa 6 лет назад +8

      The hl2 tech demo blew my mind. It left me thinking about the game for months. Must have rewatched it over forty times or so. The physics of the floating matrasses and wooden splinters together with that spectacular refraction were leagues ahead of other games. Has there been such an ambitious push in physics simulation in games since?

    • @shapeshifter-theamorphousg3264
      @shapeshifter-theamorphousg3264 2 года назад +1

      HL2 was so ahead of it's time, on multiple levels.

  • @zsciaeount
    @zsciaeount 6 лет назад

    GREAT idea for a video! DF Retro is one of the best series on RUclips today. Keep ‘em coming!

  • @migs8171
    @migs8171 6 лет назад +102

    Waveraces water blew me back in the day

    • @fryncyaryorvjink2140
      @fryncyaryorvjink2140 6 лет назад +25

      Miggy 1483 what?! It only gave me a handy!

    • @spork8655
      @spork8655 6 лет назад +9

      It didn't drag its teeth, did it?

    • @orjanbaglo
      @orjanbaglo 6 лет назад +8

      blew you away or like behind the dumpster in high school?

    • @zerounit87
      @zerounit87 6 лет назад +3

      The music was awesome too.

    • @migs8171
      @migs8171 6 лет назад +7

      Tickled the balls with plenty of eye contact. Glorious

  • @AgsmaJustAgsma
    @AgsmaJustAgsma 6 лет назад +3

    The perfect DF Retro video for the summer.

  • @Spielewelten
    @Spielewelten 6 лет назад +27

    Looking at the 16 Bit SNES Aera, you forgot Tales of Phantasia. In the first town the reflections on the water are gorgeous.

    • @dajam9035
      @dajam9035 6 лет назад

      Spielewelten It might be in part 2.

    • @oaedeoi
      @oaedeoi 6 лет назад

      he goes chronically

    • @Malus1531
      @Malus1531 6 лет назад +1

      Mykel Hardin Nope, it's a chronic condition. He just always goes.

  • @Noe2iq
    @Noe2iq 3 года назад

    Excellent video, John, your research and technical analysis are amazing again! And thanks for the shoutout to Trespasser, I implemented the water ripples in that :)

  • @luuketaylor
    @luuketaylor 6 лет назад +182

    Somebody alert Rob from PlayStation Access - he's gonna love this!

    • @OwtDaftUK
      @OwtDaftUK 6 лет назад +17

      The video also has Metal Gear Solid in it to boot.

    • @ICalverz
      @ICalverz 6 лет назад +17

      No lets not. Playstation access is terrible.

    • @TerasXertas
      @TerasXertas 6 лет назад +5

      Shit I was gonna make this same comment xD

    • @plutterton
      @plutterton 6 лет назад +1

      What’s the joke?

    • @bdre5555
      @bdre5555 6 лет назад +5

      Luke Taylor haha yes he sure is! He practically drools over games that have good water effects in their videos

  • @Sanjinator1
    @Sanjinator1 6 лет назад

    Water in games has fascinated me since my childhood and has always been a great barometer to determine whether the quality of a video game will be good or bad from initial impressions.
    I know, not a great way to judge a game's overall quality but this approach is yet to let me down.
    First PS1's MediEvil, then Tomb Raider II, Crash Bandicoot 3 to PS2's Soul Reaver 2, PS3's Uncharted & especially TR Underworld's ocean simulation. These games WOWED me when I gazed upon their water works.
    Nowadays not so much, harder to impress; consequence of becoming an adult. This episode of DF Retro was beautiful, truly!

  • @RaymondMiah
    @RaymondMiah 6 лет назад +16

    makes me miss waverace 😭😭

  • @MW_1535
    @MW_1535 6 лет назад +1

    This was my favorite DF Retro so far. My teenage mind was blown away by Wave Race. Thanks for the memories!

  • @catbutler5282
    @catbutler5282 6 лет назад +33

    Great video, although I think Crash Bandicoot 2 and 3 could have done with a mention. If only because Naughty Dog implemented arbitrary software clipping planes to get around the lack of a depth buffer on the system. That allowed them to cut dynamic objects like Crash, enemies and boxes in half, rendering first the underwater part, then the water mesh and finally the upper part of the character.

    • @VexAcer
      @VexAcer 6 лет назад +11

      Cat Butler Yeah I'm kinda surprised the water effects from Crash 3 weren't mentioned. It essentially did the 3D water and interactive waves from Wave Race except this time at a stable 30fps instead of 20 and on much weaker hardware.
      Would've interesting to hear about it.

    • @Alexander-ix2jp
      @Alexander-ix2jp 4 года назад

      @@VexAcer The water effects in Crash 3 dont look as good as the effects seen in wr64. In fact, wv64 looks and behaves much better. +1 for the idea though; would love to see a direct side by side comparison of the two titles.

    • @VexAcer
      @VexAcer 4 года назад +1

      @@Alexander-ix2jp I guess you could argue WRs water technically being more advanced and detailed. I think the water have more a natural effect in WR.
      I really do dig the way it looks in Crash 3. Still is impressive to see something similar on the system.

    • @sebastiankulche
      @sebastiankulche Год назад +1

      ​​@@Alexander-ix2jpThats debatable though, as i think the lightning effects (especially in the sunset levels) were way better, plus the waves itself can affect the jetski jumps and sometimes change its speed. All of that in a game that is doing a lot of other impressive things as well, since the water levels are just a part of it.
      Plus we also have to mention the prehistoric levels which makes crash, enemies and other game objects having a reflection on top of being in a body of water. In Rubin words: its impossible with the zbuffer. Its beyond that.

    • @Alexander-ix2jp
      @Alexander-ix2jp Год назад

      @@sebastiankulche The waves in wv64 were dynamic and did affect the jetski too. In wv64 everything is all about the water refraction and it looks beautiful even to this day, same goes for how things such as sunsets affect the water shading etc. I also don't think anything in Crash is impossible in zbuffer / on the 64. There are ppl here on RUclips improving things like Mario64 on real hardware to the point that it looks like a Dreamcast game (at 60fps even), or even porting Portal with all its pc based physics onto the 64, with the addition of other effects that the 64 can do for "free" in hardware due to its hardware accelerated vertex shaders etc. The 64 is on an entirely different lvl when compared to the PlayStation hardware. The 64 is much more advanced tbh.

  • @JudoGuy
    @JudoGuy 6 лет назад

    I love that in 2018, there's a digital foundry video that starts with 'water is life'. You guys are great, you're easily my fav John. Thanks for all your hard work. Will be checking out your Patreon.

  • @SShambler
    @SShambler 6 лет назад +3

    30min just flew by, enjoyed every min of it.

  • @Magneira
    @Magneira 6 лет назад +1

    This is the best gaming channel, period. But you have mentioned the underwater section of Metal Gear Solid 2, the colours, movement and everything else really looks amazing.

  • @dreammfyre
    @dreammfyre 6 лет назад +9

    I'm missing Magic Carpet here. It predates Panzer Dragoon and had very similar looking water effects. One of those early 3D games I remember being blown away by.
    (And it's designed by everyone's favourite sweet talker, Peter Molyneux!)

    • @kurisuchiinathecrocodile333
      @kurisuchiinathecrocodile333 3 года назад +1

      I'm not as much fan of Peter specifically as of Bullfrog. Populus the Beginning is my fav game of all time, Dungeon Keeper is also neat.

  • @Belpowerslave
    @Belpowerslave 6 лет назад +2

    Dude, I *cannot* believe you didn't mention the amazing water on PowerSlave for the PSX. I know you can't include everything, but that has to be one of the most amazing renditions of water on the system!

  • @bpcgos
    @bpcgos 6 лет назад +13

    What about water and underwater effect in the first MGS on OG Playstation, its trully convincing especially added with its cinematic nature.

    • @mtoad
      @mtoad 6 лет назад +4

      The initial underwater personal sub scene looks incredible.

  • @peterunger9405
    @peterunger9405 6 лет назад

    I was born a little too late to really appreciate most the games on this list.
    But I can’t wait too see your part 2 diving into the PS2 and original Xbox era that I grew up with.
    Keep up the great work DF!

  • @stijnkulche5932
    @stijnkulche5932 6 лет назад +261

    7.8 too much water ~ IGN

    • @konradkirschbauer8494
      @konradkirschbauer8494 6 лет назад +1

      Stijn Kulche hauahuhuahauauhauahhauajua omfg

    • @Poever
      @Poever 6 лет назад

      Yeah, don’t show Kallie this video

    • @MetalHeart210
      @MetalHeart210 6 лет назад +6

      Stijn Kulche I was looking for this comment. I was not disappointed.

    • @narata1541
      @narata1541 6 лет назад +5

      Stijn Kulche This joke is so overused, but now it made me laugh. :-D

    • @JimGiant
      @JimGiant 6 лет назад +2

      I knew someone would say it.

  • @MrSEA-ok2ll
    @MrSEA-ok2ll 6 лет назад +1

    My first memory of entering water was Pitfall 2 on the Atari 2600...the most impressive use of water was games like Flood on the Amiga, but the first Crash Bandicoot's stream sections simply looked amazing even to this day. I also remember the water fall on the original Unreal...I used an 16mb Nvidia TNT with my overclocked Celeron II 300 running at 450mhz...exciting times. The most impressive use of water appeared via DX9 with Half Life 2 on PC...it still holds up to this day.

  • @DarkMProductions
    @DarkMProductions 6 лет назад +4

    One game I think has truly remarkable water effects is Lair for the PS3. No, it's not a great game, but the technology behind it, while flawed in certain areas, is very impressive. Shame it was Factor 5's last game.

  • @Slappaccino
    @Slappaccino 2 года назад

    I absolutely love watery worlds / settings in games. This video is such a nice trip back through some of my favorites.

  • @robertcop3736
    @robertcop3736 6 лет назад +15

    MARIO WiiU getting the shout out he deserves!

  • @PandorasTmrw
    @PandorasTmrw 6 лет назад

    Thank you for this video. I have always adored water graphics in video games! It’s amazing to see how all this stuff was done 🤯

  • @Rolodzeo
    @Rolodzeo 6 лет назад +25

    Amazing looking water for a DF Retro video

  • @JimLeonard
    @JimLeonard 6 лет назад

    Massive props for denoting which footage is emulation! Very important for historical accuracy and research.

  • @megamanx1291
    @megamanx1291 6 лет назад +23

    Who else remembers that user on miiverse that would compliment water in every game he came across?

    • @SeeASquaRE
      @SeeASquaRE 6 лет назад +1

      Zeemanhuismerk I never used Miiverse but I am Indeed intrigued by your comment.

    • @frosty6845
      @frosty6845 6 лет назад +6

      Zeemanhuismerk he's probably blowing a load in his pants right now

    • @leonro
      @leonro 6 лет назад +2

      Do you mean Mario Wii U? Yeah, he was amazing.

    • @BIaziken2
      @BIaziken2 6 лет назад +3

      watch until the end

    • @megamanx1291
      @megamanx1291 6 лет назад

      「 OKAY 」 A person can comment before finishing the video. I was among the first.

  • @Toschez
    @Toschez 6 лет назад +1

    Donkey Kong Country 2 was a great evolution from 1 in that it allowed jumping in and out of water, and the representation of the surface was truly among the best of 16 bit era.

  • @jelassiamine
    @jelassiamine 6 лет назад +5

    Interesting and informative, as expected of John and DF Retro! Hope it's not an excessive request, but do you think it would be possible to include the music selection in the description of future videos? It would be great! :)

  • @michaelali1995
    @michaelali1995 6 лет назад

    This was amazing. Probably my favourite DF release. I'd love another one likes these, dealing with Physics :D

  • @gorana.37
    @gorana.37 6 лет назад +4

    What a fantastic subject for a DF video ! Total awesomeness. Grabbing a drink for this!

  • @NaruCedSuke
    @NaruCedSuke 6 лет назад

    DF Retro one of the best things i can get in a bored Sunday, thank you John!.

  • @5persondude
    @5persondude 6 лет назад +8

    *Me:* Oh boy, a new DF Retro episode! I wonder what John is gonna cover?
    *DF:* Water effects
    *Me:* ...Y E E T !

  • @yusofplayed
    @yusofplayed 2 года назад

    Man I’m really getting into df retro and had no idea there were so many videos, and I’m even a long time DF fan! Looking forward to watching all of them and hoping there’s a part 3!!!

  • @thegameroom7647
    @thegameroom7647 6 лет назад +6

    Ah, you missed a good opportunity with Resident Evil: Code Veronica. It has a pretty nice water section in a boss fight with some good looking ripples caused by movement.
    Oh well.

    • @gc3k
      @gc3k 6 лет назад +1

      That's what first came to mind since Dreamcast library didn't really have super impressive water effects

  • @GreenLantern20X6
    @GreenLantern20X6 6 лет назад

    Each episode of DF Retro gets better and better. The b-roll, transitions, and depth of content on this episode are particularly well done. Great job John!

  • @guzz_lightyear
    @guzz_lightyear 6 лет назад +22

    love this types of videos!!!, could you please consider doing a video about fire rendering?

    • @dreamcastfan
      @dreamcastfan 6 лет назад +6

      Good call, I’d like to nominate the lanterns on the first level of Ninja Gaiden Black as a great example of fire done well. So many games tend to just use some blurry orange alpha transparencies for their explosions and they seldom look right.

  • @Soonjai
    @Soonjai 6 лет назад +3

    I´m surprised that you didn´t even mention Archimedian Dynasty aka Schleichfahrt and it´s Sequels, the Aquanox games. Those have the most impressive underwater Simulation of their time I can think of, and Aquanox 2 even holds up pretty well to this day.

  • @sivberg
    @sivberg 6 лет назад +6

    oh super mario 64, such summer memories :)

  • @davy_K
    @davy_K 6 лет назад +1

    Great to see Wetrix get a mention. Excellent game and a real tough challenge.

  • @edonslow1456
    @edonslow1456 6 лет назад +7

    I like the way 8 and 16 bit titles persisted with water levels despite the fact that literally no one enjoyed them.

  • @bemani247
    @bemani247 6 лет назад +1

    it had no physics that I remember, but Onimusha (2 especially) on the PS2 looked absolutely stunning!

  • @henshin587
    @henshin587 6 лет назад +3

    ghosthunter and onimusha 3 had some great looking water

  • @IkesDaddelbox
    @IkesDaddelbox 6 лет назад

    Can't wait for part 2. Water is such a hated element in video games, but I always found it fascinating to look at it and to find out all the methods to render it. One of my favourite topics in terms of game design.

  • @EvolutionPCGaming
    @EvolutionPCGaming 6 лет назад +3

    Hats off to you sir, this video is top notch! I’d love to jump into some game programming now! Very motivating. :)

  • @METROIDROCKSXP98
    @METROIDROCKSXP98 6 лет назад +2

    Resident evil 4 has the best 6th gen water I have ever seen, looks amazing even today

  • @Fendera1
    @Fendera1 6 лет назад +30

    *Hydrophobia* has hands down one of the best water physics ever made.

    • @no1DdC
      @no1DdC 6 лет назад +14

      Too bad the rest of the game is awful.

    • @Atlessa
      @Atlessa 6 лет назад

      Disagree. It was actually quite awful once you actually stopped to observe it for a second. Doesn't help that the game in and of itself was pretty darn 'meh' at best.

  • @MykeBatez
    @MykeBatez 6 лет назад

    Really enjoy all the things you try (&succeed with) in DF Retro. Looking through a specific facet of real-time graphics as it’s evolved is so fascinating. Great job John!

  • @mikekarasi8045
    @mikekarasi8045 6 лет назад +17

    Wave Race 64 was one of the best visually realized games ever created. It was a racing game which made you feel that those environments existed. If Disney created a human reality it would look like Wave Race 64.

  • @adriensebbane
    @adriensebbane 4 года назад

    This is a fascinating video ! Well done and accessible.
    I loved how waves in Wave Race 64 made that no lap was identical to another. a part of random...

  • @mrfarkyhars9192
    @mrfarkyhars9192 6 лет назад +13

    I long for a new Waverace or 1080 come to think.

  • @Pwnsweet
    @Pwnsweet 6 лет назад +2

    The TNMT dam level music at the beginning of this video was a nice touch John

  • @tatwo_
    @tatwo_ 6 лет назад +19

    Why is video title is H20 and not H2O? Did Gearbox make this title?

  • @ElsweyrDiego
    @ElsweyrDiego 6 лет назад +1

    there is the water on Final Fantasy VII, VIII and IX 's summons, the Leviathan on VIII was wonderfully beautiful for me

  • @ipivapan15
    @ipivapan15 6 лет назад +45

    Great topic! What about DF Retro for snow?

    • @recht_voor_zijn_raap5506
      @recht_voor_zijn_raap5506 6 лет назад +11

      ipivapan And the evolution of weather effects.

    • @sandman8993
      @sandman8993 6 лет назад +1

      Snowboard kids will be number one

    • @ZiggyStardust85
      @ZiggyStardust85 6 лет назад +4

      What about DF Retro for fire?

    • @oaedeoi
      @oaedeoi 6 лет назад +3

      interactive leaves and grass by stepping on it

  • @felidiusz
    @felidiusz 6 лет назад

    I love the dedication and competency of DF, especially in Retro parts. All this details, intricacies and smallest things you can only know, because you have played all this games, not because you read about it. Huge respect!

  • @3Angle_
    @3Angle_ 6 лет назад +4

    Wave Race one seems as really good practice assignment. Although I'm trying to figure out pattern for their white color vertexes. Seems kinda random ?

  • @lazyfatferalcatchubby4996
    @lazyfatferalcatchubby4996 6 лет назад +1

    Can't believe waverace was running at 20 fps, as a 12 yr old kid at the time it felt like 60fps. Playing it on a tube crt TV felt so smooth.