Ken Loach vs Michael Heseltine on Fairness
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 мар 2013
- David Cameron has claimed that a principle of fairness - defined as 'giving people what they deserve' - is at the heart of his 'big society'.
Jeremy Paxman is joined by the film director Ken Loach and the former cabinet minister Lord Heseltine to debate.
I love Ken Loach. The fact that this debate is even necessary in 2019 attests to the accuracy of his claims and the continued division of Us and Them in society.
Too right nothing has changed
Ken not only are your films great, but you are a man of pure integrity and compassion. You highlight everything that is wrong with this country and I wish certain sections of society would listen rather than be blinded by lies.
Let's talk about the undeserving rich, well done Ken you're brilliantly articulate and wised up to the system
Totally agree we need more people like him to educate people if they listen and rip up their Daily mail
Fat lot of good it did him!
Well said ken...I love this man..he has warmth, integrity, compassion and he genuinely cares..God Bless you Ken and well said..Your a good man
There are a number of problems with the benefit system. The main issue is that the Job Centre is useless and helps no one. There’s not enough work for all of these people and the ones who do work say it’s not enough to survive on. Benefits are capped for the poor and tax breaks are unlimited for the rich. People getting sanctioned left and right for being 1 minute late or random appointments people aren’t even aware of. It’s all a game to toy with the already poor and broken. People are NOT meant to be something to amuse yourself with, they need to be able to survive.
I really enjoyed watching this, it almost defies belief that the Tories thought it fit to put Heseltine forward to fight their corner, if any proof at all is needed that the Conservatives are still entrenched in their old Thatcherite ways, this is it. The sheer stubborn hypocrisy and bigoted nature of Michael Heseltine is superbly laid open for all to see by the calm and collected figure of Ken Loach. Pity there's nobody left in the Labour Party willing to make the same argument.
now they do! :-)
"We're up to our eyeballs in debt and it's got to be cut..." says Tarzan in 2013.
UK Debt 2010 - £760bn
UK Debt 2016 - £1,600bn (and counting...)
Heseltine was losing the plot because he was getting abusive and did a lot of finger pointing to Loach.
Ken is unfortunately spot on. Tories broke this country and it can't be fixed.
Ken Loach is an amazing person.
Brilliant from Loach.
Well done Ken - get after the bastards. Heseltine - an abomination, as were they all. And Paxman, too.
Ken Loach a hero for the working class and everyone who is vulnerable.
A superbly moral articulate decent man, who stands up to the arrogance of the destructive Tory callous abhorrent mantra.
We need more of the likes of Ken Loach, as he is a man of great decency and decent core values!
I appauld Ken Loach.
Thank God for Ken Loach challenging a person who presided over the decimation of industry and kept inflation low by mass unemployment in the figure of 4 millions!
Paxman was scared for once... great debate... Well done Ken, you represented the average Joe and Josephine well...
Thanks so much for posting
'Swinging the lead'?? There's no one that swings the lead better than tories.
heseltine protects his own. evil man. terrible person. ken loach is a hero.
If debt is the problem, why has the government multiplied it?
its OK in UK for rich to get away not paying tax.shameful
It's not obviously not but it's dangerous to hunt them
ken at the end "well a rather more adult conversation than just abuse" PUT HESSELTINE IN A FUCKING COFFIN
flash forward 5 years and the tories have tripled the debt. no longer able to say labour created the debt when we are upto 1.4 /4.1 trillion. total mess
Ken should have made clear he wasn't talking about Labour vs Torie but that he was talking about NEOLIBERALISM introduced by the Tories and embraced by the Blairite New Labour.
Ken is my grandpa lol!!
Tell him to stop making poverty porn. We know it makes him lots of money, but enough is enough.
Really .....? Or do you both have the same name?
@@theoilandgasresourceportal2132 Better than complete Downton Abbey wank.
You've every right to be very proud. I contend that Ken Loach is one of the greatest film directors in the world. He's up there with the very best.
Never mind Michael, you have had a good long life and won't be around for much longer. Also, if Thatcher was so inspirational and great why did he play such a big part in stabbing her in the back and causing her fall from power?
Tories hate each other not only the poor.
I am a student of Heseltine and even freelanced for his magazines. Fascinating character and someone of ruthless ambition. But a lifelong chancer and a gambler. Privately someone who was aware of his own faults and even employed speech therapists to try and improve his speaking voice. Generally distanced from his own party MP's because he was actually worked the capitalist system and worked hard at it. Never even had an office in Westminster because he ran his own business alongside his Parliamentary business. So one phone call might be about renting trestle tables the next about overthrowing a democratically elected government and installing himself as PM!
@@clemalford9768 Thatcher once invited Heseltine to Chequers and instead of giving him drinks and a nice meal went through his book pointing out the faults there-contained!
It’s fascinating how Heseltine can talk bout the poor in society having to always tighten their belts, while the bankers who caused this debt and should of gone out of business are still paying themselves obscene bonuses by using taxpayers money. When they need it there always seems to be a magic money tree for the rich. And the sad thing is, an awful lot of working class people still believe the Tory’s are the guardians of the economy. We are daft.
'Should OF gone out..........'. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It's 'Should'VE' or 'Should HAVE'. Also no apostrophe 's'in plurals in English..it's 'Tories' not 'Tory's'. Get it right.
Ken Loach is my kind of guy...I have massive respect for him. So nice to see him have that revolting Michael Heseltine on the ropes. I've been unemployed and know how it feels to be in an uncertain insecure position in life. The Tories can never defend the in in-defensible and have to prevaricate and twist the discussion but you know when they have lost the argument, when they resort to obtuse remarks like 'Crypto Communist Claptrap'!!!!!!! Communism is not the same as Socialism. In the same way as it would be unfair to call Heseltine a Crypto Fascist, even though one is tempted to, Ken Loach's anger is with Ne-Liberalism and I like the way he refuses to sink to Heseltine's level.
Let's play "Spot the Twat". Do you need a clue? Well, it ain't Ken Loach and it ain't Jeremy Paxman!!!
Jeremy Paxman is a twat too.
Why do we stand for this over and over again. The easiest and least damaging way to solve the shortfall would be to tax the top, simple as that. Yes they would take a "hit" but it would be more of an inconvenience, they would have plenty to eat and their world would NOT collapse. After all, they have had win after win in the money stakes a million times over. Many of them CAUSED the problems in the first place
Trying to get this money from the poor causes untold suffering and even death to many who suffer depression. {and anyone who is struggling to look for work who is older or ill WILL get depressed}. The people who.s job it was to collect tax from the major companies who just didn't want to pay or used accountants tricks should be held responsible and all those who allowed it to happen go to jail in my opinion
Brilliantly said.
+Ron Wylie Couldn't agree more, well said. I think a lot of people put up with this, because they've swallowed the right wing propaganda; that their hardships are the result of immigrants or the poorest among us. This type of thing has been going on for centuries. When workers were struggling in the 1860's, the mill and coalmine owners, redirected the blame for this - at Irish immigrant workers. When it was they who had organised this in the first place - in order to keep wages low and working conditions not fit for rats - let alone the many children that they often employed. As you said; the craziest thing in all of this - is that the super rich who got us into this mess, are the one's who get off Scott free. It's like a professional boxer, who's broken his knuckles by repeatedly punching a child in the head for no reason - then sending the child a bill for the boxer's medical expenses.
The poor have no money.
For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
Ken loach speaks sense he should be prime minister the only person I know of that has such a realistic outlook on life and ppl and their daily struggle
Never thought he was anything of the kind. Made some great films but a total backward looking fantasist. Like his great mate Corbyn. Both these guys lived good lives and a good living from media. What have either man ever wanted and not afforded?
@IIWII Pledges? Easy when you are a million miles from government. Anyway dream on...
If you want to destroy a country's economy please vote for him.
Ken Loach and similar leftist views are important for a society in order to point the struggle ordinary people have on a daily basis. But they don't have good receipies to solve them. Not even Marx did who entire work is about criticizing capitalism, not promoting comunism.
Capitalism (and rich people thereof which leftists are obsessed about) is an efficient way to organise an economy. No other alternative is viable for now but just some different interpretations of it. Period. We're not going to solve anything if we don't have a strong economy first and too many leftists still are delusional about making significant changes about the current system.
After this, they all went for a prostate examination.
Watching this in 2024 snd we're still got big problems throughout the country. In some parts it's much, much worse. Foodbanks and child poverty never been known before.
Well said Ken.
Ken ♥️
OMG it's the first time I heard somebody use a term I coined in my head - that the labour party was Tory Light
The great thing about Blair/Brown is they did things which were actually good. Working Tax Credits for example. PFI Initiatives. Things that went under the radar. Labour are full of Ken's who always want more and more left policies. The 70's are over. The choice is either endless Tory governments or soft left Labour governments. Loach is part of the Islington Lunatic asylum that drove the Labour Party to its worst results in a 100 years. Thank god he is gone.
Mrs thatcher was asked what's your biggest achievement.
she responded 'new Labour!
Who is on the wrong side of history? How can the poor pay more. How can you poor from an empty cup. Well done Ken Loach for caring.
Headline talks about 'cuts', but that's a completely seperate issue from Tory malice like forced labour and 'sanctions' which form a key part of the bedrock of 'welfare reform'.
Heseltine was brought up in relative luxury at No. 1, Uplands Crescent (now No. 5). He told Tatler interviewer Charlotte Edwardes in 2016: "At prep school, I started a birdwatching club called the Tit Club. Every member was named after a member of the tit family: the Marsh Tit, the Blue Tit. I was the Great Tit"
In business, I heard him on the radio boasting how he didn't pay his invoices on time and the companies went broke so he didn't have to pay them!! Then he got a new supplier for his publishing business. He is a shit.
Ken Loach is on fire here. The truth is powerful.x
Did François Hollande's tax hike on the rich for a limited period work? At the time I thought that it was a reasonable policy, in times of national crisis those who are most wealthy can express loyalty to the state in times of need. What was the result?
That's the French.
It isn't really a problem if the super-rich leave the country. The state can expropriate their wealth and the means of producing it. Rich people themselves don't create wealth. (I'm not an etatist; ultimately the state itself would have to go, or at least assume a radically more democratic form.)
Competition by its very definition creates losers, that’s fine for the sports field but when not you are trying to put food on the table. It’s long overdue we had a change of system
@misterpopvideo2 Heseltine is a one-nation conservative i.e on the left of the party
Agreed. Why Thatcher disliked him. Kept him in the tent pissing out rather than outside the tent pissing in.
"Are you suggesting the poor should make no contribution" ~ well what contribution did they make GFC and the debt?
To hold the rich top of society in the country, the country should not much tax them? There is a logic there. But moral? Is the strategy proven more helpful to the non rich than its opposite: taxing the rich more?
As Basil Faulty would say ,"Dont mention Westland in 1986 to Heseltine.I mentioned it once but I think I got away wifh it."
Westland was just an excuse. Don't buy it at all.
WHERE IS THE CUT FOR THE RICH BASTERDS
FIGHT
hesaltine said we have a global economy that allows us to live & work where we want. hhhmmmm , loach said yes but for some!! i now see the impact on the people of the mining communities , it destroyed the structure. im not saying the unions were right by far. or maggie was wrong by far. but the result was whole areas,generations decimated. it seems we are still doing this in the name of politics and so called global community. BRANDNEWSTART a creative live work teaching community global answer
GO ON KEN!
Heseltine…I’ve got a finger and I’m going to point it!!
i'm not socialist, but once you decide to live in a country, you have to pay taxes overthere, without overseas, trusts, or any other dodgy scheme, politicians will allow this when they are corrupted.
Politicians will always look after the people who look after them it's very simple . The only thing they require from the poor is a vote every 4 years stop doing it fools .
Win for Mr Loach
When heseltine starts blurting on about labour legacy well here in 2023 things are a lot worse after Tory rule people can make there own minds up and ken was well on point
LABOUR,TORY,LABOUR,TORY,TICK,TOCK,TICK,TOCK, UK BANNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGG
Heseltine part of Thatchers cruel regime, we all know his views on poor people.
Of course Ken is not rich.
Paxman. Bah humbug.
Couldn't run a knees up in a brewery.
What he should have done was to give them both a pair of boxing gloves
I would back Ken Loach every day of the week.
Paxman 🤬🤢🤮
Tory's don't give a flying fuck about the poor on benefits Maggie didn't Cameron would rather fuck a pig than help the poor now we have may
I salute ken loach for making this movie I Daniel I wish he was our prime minister
M H has always been a has been.
Ken Loach says that's not fair, almost from the outset, yet depicted the war of 1920 as against intolerable English arrogance, in order to create justification for the killing that began the war. The cause of the killing was a legacy of history, as was the Irish parliament involved. The police carried guns, but in rural Ireland that was understandable until the republicans got to be policemen, there is no village system in Ireland, no electable parish council, indeed no villages except on the town-to-town routes, and to this day bureaucracy rules - only more in keeping with who is related to who. Politicaly there had to be independence, only a Roman Catholic English State or thousands of pounds paid to every citizen could avert the split, but Loach thought he could deploy the Irish people in his war on Englands toryism, the worst type of Englishman!
Always think Irish politics is the most elusive thing in the world. Doubt anybody on this side of the Irish Sea has any handle on it, bar a few academics and those a lot of free time. Even the Roman Empire didn't want it. My forefather's probably left because it had too much nonsense.
Swinging the lead, coming from a multi millionaire.
Yes, but self-made. There are times when he could have been made bankrupt. Only a whim of a banker saved him.
What Loach means by less able kids are kids who can't be bothered to learn. There are plenty of jobs but a lot of the kids if they can't be rappers or footballers ect don't want ordinary jobs they seem to think they are worth 30 k a year which is ridicu lous The trouble is Labour made it too easy to stay on benefits.
Susan get real labour are long one history. Look around you.
William Wilson.
Not sure what you mean by your reply, so I can't really comment.
@@susanelliott2287 Labour are history, they are long gone. Look around you. Worse situation now than when Labour were around.
William Wilson.
In some ways you are correct, but at least the Tories got people to go to work instead of rewarding them handsomely for sitting on their lazy backsides.
@@susanelliott2287
What kind of work though Susan - zero-hour contracts or low paid crap.
These kind of jobs keep people shackled to poverty (and benefits).
And your generalisation of the young in our society is a shameless slur.
Get your poisoned head out of the Daily Mail for once.
I despair of people like you - your hatred of the less advantaged is a plague in the UK, perpetuated by right wing propaganda.
What IS ludicrous, is the idea that someone who is making millions of pounds every year is suddenly going to up sticks and leave where they have history, family, friends, there is stable law, democracy and socioeconomic system, all because they are taxed a few extra pence in the pound. The right always trot, 'they'll flee in droves' out, and they never do for the practical reasons I've listed - apart from the fact they've established their tidy little schemes to avoid paying taxes that enable them to live where they are culturally integrated.
The painful fact, is that the Tories, the system they represent and a LP that sadly bought into the flawed Neo liberal philosophy ended up bailing out capitalism.
Capitalism failed - even on its own terms and no amount of abuse, whining, moaning and teeth-bearing can change it.
We have ALL lived a lie, since the crash of 2008 - especially in the UK, as we reside in a pretend society, with a pretend economy and a pretend democracy.
We are in an economic death-loop.
As our standard of living falls, comparative economies are now surpassing us, in terms of standard of living, GDP growth etc...
Ken Loach is right, that the system is flawed and Michael Heseltine introduced a notion of futility into the debate, supporting millionaires leaving the shores. Which is a fallacy. But hey...
Hestletine so out of touch and depth against the intellectual and moral might of Ken Loach.
Ken Loach is completely wrong, and so is his friend Jeremy Corbyn.
That's a statement, how about the explanation. Whats Corbyn got to do with it?
Could be worse could be BLAIR or KEIR
It's a complete fallacy that the rich create jobs. Although they do create jobs, most jobs are mostly created by ordinary people starting small businesses and ordinary people buying goods and services. The rich tend to hoarde money through investment in property or stocks and shares. And one commonality between the rich is that they can never have enough money and always want more. This is shown by the way the avoid taxation...there are a plethora of accountants and financial experts who find more and more ingenious ways for the rich to avoid tax. And, while they maybe legal, it is certainly immoral. Especially when the poorer are forced, at the point of taxation from wages/salary, to foot the bills of the country. The main argument politicians use is if they tax the rich then they will take their business elsewhere... well so what? Let them go elsewhere... the hole they leave would soon be filled by many small businesses that would actually create vastly more jobs.