Sadly one of the challenges of the growth of Social Media journalism is that you get stuff like this...not exactly helpful as you are stuck with the review of the individual reviewer and no comparative review, life is relative, these reviews aren't. Some pretty pictures though.
Yep, that'd be me. I wasn't as gushing about the bike I was riding as the others although nothing impresses me that much as to gush about it, except for a moment or two on the KTM. I'm a miserable git. I can find fault with anything. I would have bagged out the Triumph even more, the BMW a little less and found fault with the KTM on the road sections. My 1 to 4 would have been; 1. KTM. 2. Honda. 3. BMW. 4. Triumph.
Honda tends to miss the mark alot, and there's plenty who harp on the DCT for various reasons (not the least of which is they don't bother to learn to use it properly).
@@nathanthepostman Now that sounds much more objective. It was obvious no one in the group gave AT much consideration or credit. In the US the AT makes a very good adventure bike with so many after market accessories available. I still enjoyed the video and great photography.
There may be some truth in that, I beat the living piss out of my last honda. It had many bad things happen and still ran like a champ, DCT enabled road bike that went on trails and snow etc.
Cost of ownership & actual purchase price are big consideration for many. Honda will certainly cost far less to maintain and purchase, usually much below Msrp, especially after a few years of introduction as we see on standard AT. Their all good bikes overall, but appeal to different riders (as intended).
so good to see the africa twin being compared to it's contemporaries, other bikes with a similar (70 odd KW) output, and displacement, rather than 1.2L plus behemoths. Great test, and very informative.
Well, there is the 1200cc+ size, then there is the 800-1100 size. What to call it? In the future there will be the 700-800 size (T7 and 790R) which may be the actual middle weight. And then there is the light section... 300-500? All would be valid groupings. Actual weight should determine it... in that case the Africa Twin Super Sports with its DCT should be on the large size. Yes, many ways to call this middle/large group of bikes.
I think a pretty good terminology would be something similar to boxing weight classes. I think these bikes are actually mostly heavy weights and over 1000cc would be more like super heavy weights, but it's a bit difficult to draw exact lines between the classes.
Well, after owning an adventure sports 2019 for 2 years now, I can confirm. Save your money and buy another bike or buy a 2020+ Africa twin. 16-19 engine is such a dud for the money you are spending. If you do want one though, I know a guy with one for sale!
You missed the mark, i was expecting 4 riders reviews on each bike. That would have provided a much wider range of experiences opinions. All we know now is how each rider felt on their own without any comparisons of opinions the same machine. At the end of the day i got what i paid for and your production values was great.
It would have made the video four times as long too! This is a new format for us and if the positive comments outweigh the negative then we'll try it again but will keep learning. We want to concentrate on the entertainment value of producing videos too while keeping the facts and hard core review to the website, so if you'd like to see four individual reviews then please head to the manufacturer page here: www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes
Bennetts Bike Thanks for sharing the link. How about extending just the last bit where you talk about 3 positives and 3 negatives? Each reviewer could have added a little bit about what he thought about the other bikes. I for one was really curious to know what each advocate of one bike thought of the others. For example, "The Tiger is great for my mostly road riding but this is how the 1090R felt in comparison..."
Loved how the KTM rider whos legs are longer than a giraffes and probably sleeps in a KTM pyjamas had nothing to say about the seatheight, hard seat, twitchy engine at low speed,engine heat, bad windscreen and same top heavyness as the rest of the bikes. It's so much offroad focus in these reviews that they forget that these bikes see 90% tarmac, and thats still an "adventure". When normal people take them offroad it is not like in the commercials, they are not dirtbikes even if skilled people can handle them like that.
We tested the bikes with standard rubber supplied. Knobbies obviously help, but for the dry surfaces we were riding it wouldn't have made a huge difference and the different characteristics of the two bikes would still have shone through. The KTM feels lighter, better sprung and sharper. A tyre isn't going to change that.
Steve Ingham I owned Africa Twin which is great tourer on the road, ticks all the boxes for me apart from tubed tyres. I now own the 1090r which is great on and off road and tubeless tyres! But, plastic are not the same spec as the Africa Twin, but both great bikes. Whatever bikes you ride you will never find the perfect bike?🏴👍🤔
@@davemould5868 I found it: 950 adv ; For me its perfect ; Sure there is always something to improve and add but right now there is no other bike like this. Young enough to be reliable, yet old enough not to have all electronics bs to go wrong in worst moment.
mld While it is true that the KLR and DR 650 are dual sport bikes, when you are around the litre mark, you can't really call it middleweight, as you yourself have observed. These days manufacturers are introducing new models at every 50-100 cc increment so the line between middle and heavy weight is getting blurred but these bikes are clearly not middleweight. Maybe they could have called them middle-heavy weight but that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
@@twistednemo I would think the minimum for an adventure bike would be 2 cylinders and at least 400cc. Anything else is a duel sport with extra plastics for wind protection. Small adventure 500-650. Not saying the really small stuff won't get you there but having the right tool for the job is always better.
A huge difference, mostly the dehydration you avoid by not crying so much about how much the resale price has fallen after you have dropped it a few times.
I was considering a BMW but now they cant make their own engines.....being made in China for cents on the dollar. Sorry I've already given them too much of my money from electronics that don't last, to home improvement products that are over priced for what you get. At least Honda and KTM still have confidence and pride in what they do! Buyer beware....shame on you BMW!
Seriously, some people think the was a really good review of these bikes. My grandmother could have done better, and she's blind and in a wheelchair. But to be serious, this wasn't a review it was personal opinions of the bike they were on. The guy on the Honda was already hating on it when he showed up. Plus he apparently knows nothing about the bike at all. The 1090r and AT are great bikes. A lot is how you set it up and intend to ride it. I researched the 1090r and AT for a month and rode both. A few of my personal findings. KTM 1090r 1. To tall for me. 2. Excessive engine heat on longer rides. 3. Harder for me to handle in the tight off road stuff. 4. Uncomfortable seat and riding position. 5. I will never need 125 hp off road. But the grin you get when you open it up can't be denied. 6. To be honest It's a heck of a bike. Honda AT 1. Love the low seat position 2. Has a lower center of gravity and handles much better for me. 3. I liked the softer suspension, especially riding off road. Seemed to make it easier to manage. It's even better when properly set up. 4. 98 hp is plenty for me. 5. I liked that it had less electronics on it. Less to go wrong. ABS and traction control are plenty for me. 5. Its a Honda, Reliable !! Both are the same as far as ground clearance and suspension travel. A lot comes down to rider preference. But please DO NOT let this video sway any decision to purchase any of these bikes. Especially the AT. There are plenty of real test and comparisons on these bikes out there. At the end I went with the AT and love it.
Plus it depends where you live and ride and what you want the bike for. AT sport is excellent for Australia maybe not so much for Wales on those so called trails.
you don't earn the same salary you did 10 years ago. neither do you pay same bills from 10 years ago. So why expect 10 year old prices on new bike? Factory overheads.. factory worker wages engineering budget are always upwards
"Africa Twin is so soft, KTM is so hard, sporty ..." What's your point - both have adjustable preload and damping, front and rear! A few clicks in one or the other direction and you can make the KTM soft and Africa Twin hard as a rock right?
@@ridelive6249 - if you want hard and sporty and if you are over 6ft - get the KTM - all KTM owners literally love their bikes... unfortunately I am a little older and although I love the 690R enduro, I think I would trade it for the Honda... I heard the Triuph is very comfortable, the KTM is hard, hard narrow seat, firm ride and takes much longer to perfect!
My best friend (turned 56 and 300lb) is thinking about getting that KTM. I'm not as experienced as he is and I just purchased the regular AT with DCT. Great review! I think I made the right decision. Cheers
Lovely scenery and photography and I enjoyed the banter. Very interesting to see the differences in the bikes. The KTM is of course the most fun (I own a 990 SMT) as always, and in my eyes, the best value for money. For real riding, aka doing very little off road, I'd suggest the Tiger XRT and the KTM Adventure S. The BMW seems, as usual, wildly overpriced for what it offers. It's a nice bike, and I don't know why, but BMW's practice of milking their customers for extras irritates me immensely.
To be honest, KTM is doing exactly the same as BMW. The stock price is cheap, but you don't get half of the stuff you want. Hell on my 1190 r I got the high crashbars and all the goodies for free. Now if you buy the 1290 r or 1090 R you have to buy all the protection bits you first got already on it, as some of the electronics.
yeah, i decided a while ago to start a one man boycott of bmw. they're money grubbers. charging a monthly fee for something other companies give away for free on $20k cars? weak. apple carplay is just another example of how much they love their customers... money.
I find it funny when in reviews people take Africa Twin Adventure Sports with DCT, complain that they took DCT and later they add that it is too tall... It is like I would take BMW F850GS and complain that it is too small for me (I'm quite tall). The ATAS is a bike for tall and you can point it but it is not a bad thing for everybody. Take riders that are well fitted for the bike next time. Next time you should exchange the bikes between each other to have a good comparison. Not to be only negativ (constructive) I have to say that it was well made and very interesting but not very convincing. Keep up good work
I agree, but if i'm right the adventure sports only comes with DCT. And you indeed always should buy a bike that fits you and it should not be a downside in any test.
250-450cc lightweight, 500-750cc midnight, 800+ heavyweight or full size. 1200 = monster. Also why did you everyone start off hating the Africa twin? You obviously aren't going to be able to kick out the rear end on the dirt with those street tires. If you just did 5 min of googling you'd have figured out how to use the DCT, and how to adjust the seat to the lowest setting before you even got on the bike.
I've ridden the DCT equipped bike plenty of times. I know the settings and I know DCT is not for me. But sometimes manufactures force you to have what they want you to talk about. If you like it, then great.
Should have gone with the Suzuki DR650(you can literally buy two DR650s for the price of these), its half the price and twice the reliability. Add heated grips for $50 and front and rear shocks for $400 and its a FANTASTIC adventure bike
If you were interested in buying one of these for ADV use, this video is useless. I've seen a video where four riders shared a ride while swapping bikes. It may have been the same brand bikes. Three out of four chose the Africa Twin for overall (dirt/road). In this video it was laughed at almost immediately. I think these guys were defending their choice for this ride rather than give an unbiased opinion. Take for instance I have a Vstrom 650. It is a true middleweight ADV class that is best for that class. IMO of course.
I thought the almost completely positive comments about the Triumph said a lot. Most of these bikes will see very little off road traveling, mostly contained to dirt/fire roads here in the US. The first comments about the BMW were somewhat negative, That tells me BMW may have some catching up to the Triumph to do, especially concerning their "Premium" (for what you get) cost over the others. I thought it was odd that the Africa Twin had road tires.
1000 cc middleweights :P. There is something to be said for the Tiger with all the options but I would easily chose the KTM over the others. Its got way more motor and I think it will get more under the skin so to say. The others just seem a little bit blend compared to it imo. Definately would chose the more road orriented version tho.
No, you should take the R version always because of the suspension and if you want to ride it on the road you should buy road tires... then it will smoke all the bikes of these four on the road too...
They should have all the guys ride all the bikes... it's not really a comprehensive comparison if different people talk about one single bike each. But it's a nice video.
Great Review guys, I always find myself walking over to the KTM 1090R at the dealerships, it has the least electronics but just looks the business, I have three bikes in the garage and really want to add the KTM, now if you can do a video on how to convince the wife for an adventure tourer, since I have a cruiser, sports tourer and a naked!!! the KTM is the only thing missing from paradise.
There is an old, new king back on the scene, called Yamaha T7. This bike is offering less gimmicks for old men but much more driving ecstasy than all of these bikes together.
Oh the Honda is to tall... put the seat in the low position then!! “Has the DCT been changed?” Yes they are constantly making it better. Why do you get idiots who know nothing about bikes to review them?
AlSpeed89 they did put it in the lower position. It took all 4 of them to figure out. Made the process something else to complain about. How pathetic are these guys. I hate tall bikes, I hate DCT, supposedly you got to choose your bike. You must be a special kind of stupid. The guy on the Triumph likes pavement and doesn’t like off road. Of course he likes the wee 800. It’s as much of an off road bike as a Harley Davidson. Worst review/comparison I have ever seen. Please stop.
Great reviews Chaps, though I agree with Nathan the standard AT is a much better comparison against the other three bikes. The ATAS is a specialist bike for adventure travel not everyday. But as a AT fan boy, my god I want the KTM 😍😍😍
Iam_ mono I ride my ATAS every day in all weather conditions the main issue is its a big tall bike for big tall people which is going to upset people who find it to big ! But it’s great for me. There are so many bikes out there that I simply cannot ride because they are set up for lighter shorter people that I would love to own but cannot !! This Honda is brilliant and ticks all my boxes !! My previous bike was a 2010 Ktm 990 which was great. Very different and very expensive to run and repair very different build quality. Having had 2 990 adv and 4 690’s !! I have finally learnt my lessons on build quality and reliability. But you cannot say I didn’t try lol
Well done! Enjoyable video and interesting comparison. The only thing that bothered me is the sound. They all sound like hedge trimmers, don't you think?
when talking about HP or BHP, the manufacturer should put each model of bike on a Dyno. That way there is very little difference between pulls. The Dyno also tells torque values, as well as speed. All engines lose power when going through the drivetrain and accessories. This way you should get a true picture of what the bikes capabilities are to the ground.
I like the Africa Twin but a white frame on adventure bike is rather daft,there are going to be parts which you will never manage to clean and the bike could soon look old. I had the first generation of the new AT and it was great but I'm glad Honda have listened to what customers want and have fitted the larger tank and fitted the flatter seat.
Great work guys. I love these videos! I'm a 46 year old guy from New York. I loved my little brother's NX 650 but I am way behind the times. Can you point me in the right direction?
Forget bout horse power and torque, new KTMs has the best computer, feels like it's giving you a hand to push further rather than keeping you in control like patronizing way
another great vid! after the proper release of the 790 adventure, will KTM still produce the 1090? if so, will it finally get the TFT display it deserves?
That "let's meet up at a place on whatever you choose top gear style" is getting a bit old for me.and a 1090 ktm...middleweight?and no one got the same bike.......and they arrive a minute apart......
Anyone with good sense chooses the bike based on their actual uses for it (and not their subconscious fantasy-life bias!). If you're going to ride on roads all the time or with a pillion (with the option to go offroad once or twice a year), you'd choose a Tiger or Vstrom. If you grewup on dirtbikes and live in the desert, forest or outer Mongolia on your own, you should definitely get a KTM. If youre new to adventure bikes and cant decide what you want, a BMW is your safe bet. I've had an Africa Twin for 2 years and wouldn't exchange it for any of the others. I live in New Zealand where backcountry dirt, sand, river crossings, and mountainside trails are everywhere and i'll push my offroad skills to some degree at least a couple of times every month, and the bike eats it all up like nothing (with minimum luggage and suspensions lowered, which takes 30 seconds btw!). At other times i also load up the bike with 4 packed boxes/tankbag & a pillion and ride for 6-8 hours to get a remote campspot and its comfy, capable and fun. For the many, many twisty roads its got plenty of power, control & great balance to pretend its a racing bike and laugh with delight on corners. The DCT isnt something you take to on your first ride (or 5 rides) because having no fine clutch control on slow speed u-turns is just, odd (but you re-learn it, to almost... damn-near, the same level of control anyway). You warm to DCT with ownership, until one day you realise all the benefits are soooo much better. Its not about the automatic changes either (i hardly ever use auto mode), more the simple click to change gear in any situation (& knowing you simply cannot stall on event the gnarliest terrain), but the bike on gravel, sand, loose boulders, mud, grass or anything just loves it all and makes you a better rider. Maybe i'll change my mind in the future (will consider a KTM 790 next time), but i'm convinced the AT is absolutely the best bike for this wide range of use, and none of the others could do all of those riding styles/terrain, so perfectly.
good video, its hard to pack a lot of information into a bike video and not make it boring, and to balance the riding footage, you've done a fair job, more off road clips would have been good. i'll look out for the next one :-)
Need two bikes, KTM and a Triumph, since this is a year and a half later, KTM 790 adventure, need lower height, and 1200 scrambler xc, again the lower seat height. I have been riding a 2008 690e and love it as I am more in the dirt. But at the are of 69 I think the 790 will allow be better road manners on the way to far off adventures.
I rode a BMW 800 vertical twin years ago when I took my K bike in for service. It's motor had all the personality of a lawnmower and about the same amount of excitement. I hope the KTM 790 Adventure has a bit more character (you know it will). I'm looking for something about 200kg, or thereabouts. These are all a bit porky considering their "middleweight" displacement. Singles are too uncivilized. I've had large thumpers, going all the way back to a BSA 441 Victor. Never again. A twin could be the thing that gets me back into street/dirt exploring.
@@alindberg8001 My local BMW dealer decided to retire and his sons who were working with him have decided to move on to other businesses. The KTM dealer is going strong. I wish there was an Aprilia dealer in the area. No Ducati or Moto Guzzi here either. The usual Japanese brands are all here. Rumors of a Transalp revival from Big Red are intriguing. Orange or Red for me?
Never thought 1200GS is a good adventure bike off road. Considering the weight at one liter realm, it could be off road as every bike is adv, but it is weight too heavy to maneuver on off road. Another aspect shall be on the list, it’s the cost of using a bike. I never thought a GS can be much better deal than the other brand in its class. Expensive parts made you pay more over the use of bike. I am not a GS hater. Let’s narrow down those bike’s features just on touring adventures for what the bikes are supposed to do. Is it a GS worth paying/costing that much, while being compared to the other reliable brands which have lower barrier to buy and do the exactly the same thing and sometimes even better?
We're well past 2018 and bikes still cost well over 15K here in AU, not to mention the new replacement parts law restrictions that have hindered our freedom to purchase parts from private sellers! Living in OZ truly suck
Really nicely shot and produced, good fun to watch. ATAS seemed oversized compared to the others, why not put the standard bike in the test? Especially when that’s what you conclude that you’d prefer?! This mates-banter-top-gear-esque thing is a bit done, don’t you think? You’re all great presenters, I’d value hearing what you really think and deeper insight. Anyway, still a good watch, keep em coming
Mainly because the Adventure Sports was new for this year, so it makes sense to feature it. And I suppose we needed to bring that one along to realise (in my opinion as the guy on the bike) that the standard one would have been preferable.
I never had a low cc stree bike, only dirtbikes, and 1100cc + motorcycles. I want to get a nice dual sport that can do some off-roading I had the ktm 790 R in mind. Being a low cc bike Would that get boring quickly on road? Also would the bigger 1000cc+ bikes be too heavy to practically go offroad? I live in Florida so off road is mainly sand where i live. I'm worried the bigger bikes will be a bit too heavy and i won't be able to control it well in the sand vs a lighter bike. I also want the oomph when i'm bored on the street and to make passing ppl on the highways quick and safe.
My poor 13 duke 690 just took a crap. Less than 15k miles in over 7 years and the rocker arm bearings gave out cause cam damage. First KTM I bought, last KTM I will ever buy. Going back to a Honda vfr1200 x or a Yamaha Super Tenre.......
To me "middleweight" in an adventure bike is 350 to 430 pounds. Any heavier than that in the difficult terrain is a pig. It must be able to do highway speeds all day, have a suspension with ample travel and carry more than four gallons for the adventure to begin. The list of bikes that meet this criteria is few.
Sadly one of the challenges of the growth of Social Media journalism is that you get stuff like this...not exactly helpful as you are stuck with the review of the individual reviewer and no comparative review, life is relative, these reviews aren't. Some pretty pictures though.
The bmw, triumph and ktm had fans of the brands riding while the Honda had someone who already didn’t like it!
Yep, that'd be me. I wasn't as gushing about the bike I was riding as the others although nothing impresses me that much as to gush about it, except for a moment or two on the KTM. I'm a miserable git. I can find fault with anything. I would have bagged out the Triumph even more, the BMW a little less and found fault with the KTM on the road sections. My 1 to 4 would have been; 1. KTM. 2. Honda. 3. BMW. 4. Triumph.
Honda tends to miss the mark alot, and there's plenty who harp on the DCT for various reasons (not the least of which is they don't bother to learn to use it properly).
@@Enonymouse_ Or maybe DCT just isn't for everyone and some people genuinely think the bike is better with a manual box.
@@nathanthepostman Agree, a DCT is ok for street, but manual 6 speed makes more sense and is lighter.
@@nathanthepostman Now that sounds much more objective. It was obvious no one in the group gave AT much consideration or credit. In the US the AT makes a very good adventure bike with so many after market accessories available. I still enjoyed the video and great photography.
the biggest difference is in 25 yrs the honda will still be running.
Will you be able to find petrol in 25 years from now :)
There may be some truth in that, I beat the living piss out of my last honda. It had many bad things happen and still ran like a champ, DCT enabled road bike that went on trails and snow etc.
@@sadigov Gas isn't going away any time soon but the tides are changing for sure.
Cost of ownership & actual purchase price are big consideration for many. Honda will certainly cost far less to maintain and purchase, usually much below Msrp, especially after a few years of introduction as we see on standard AT. Their all good bikes overall, but appeal to different riders (as intended).
I ride a 28 year old BMW, so yeah...
so good to see the africa twin being compared to it's contemporaries, other bikes with a similar (70 odd KW) output, and displacement, rather than 1.2L plus behemoths. Great test, and very informative.
These are litre bikes, I would have thought middle weight was around 400-700cc.
Well, there is the 1200cc+ size, then there is the 800-1100 size. What to call it? In the future there will be the 700-800 size (T7 and 790R) which may be the actual middle weight. And then there is the light section... 300-500? All would be valid groupings. Actual weight should determine it... in that case the Africa Twin Super Sports with its DCT should be on the large size. Yes, many ways to call this middle/large group of bikes.
There is only one litre bike and that is the KTM the others are sub 1000ccm
what about africa twin? are we talking about tens of cc?
I think a pretty good terminology would be something similar to boxing weight classes. I think these bikes are actually mostly heavy weights and over 1000cc would be more like super heavy weights, but it's a bit difficult to draw exact lines between the classes.
used to be, before everyone worked in offices
You guys were kinda against the Africa Twin from the start of the review. And I don't think the AT is as bad as ya'll make it out to be.
Well, after owning an adventure sports 2019 for 2 years now, I can confirm. Save your money and buy another bike or buy a 2020+ Africa twin. 16-19 engine is such a dud for the money you are spending.
If you do want one though, I know a guy with one for sale!
@@adammfharris Makes it very appealing as a first large ADV bike for new riders though since its approachable.
You missed the mark, i was expecting 4 riders reviews on each bike. That would have provided a much wider range of experiences opinions. All we know now is how each rider felt on their own without any comparisons of opinions the same machine. At the end of the day i got what i paid for and your production values was great.
Brett Wendel I was hoping for that too.
It would have made the video four times as long too! This is a new format for us and if the positive comments outweigh the negative then we'll try it again but will keep learning. We want to concentrate on the entertainment value of producing videos too while keeping the facts and hard core review to the website, so if you'd like to see four individual reviews then please head to the manufacturer page here: www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes
Bennetts Bike Thanks for sharing the link. How about extending just the last bit where you talk about 3 positives and 3 negatives? Each reviewer could have added a little bit about what he thought about the other bikes. I for one was really curious to know what each advocate of one bike thought of the others. For example, "The Tiger is great for my mostly road riding but this is how the 1090R felt in comparison..."
Loved how the KTM rider whos legs are longer than a giraffes and probably sleeps in a KTM pyjamas had nothing to say about the seatheight, hard seat, twitchy engine at low speed,engine heat, bad windscreen and same top heavyness as the rest of the bikes. It's so much offroad focus in these reviews that they forget that these bikes see 90% tarmac, and thats still an "adventure". When normal people take them offroad it is not like in the commercials, they are not dirtbikes even if skilled people can handle them like that.
@mld have tried them except the bmw. Just dont think it's that good of a review if someone loves the brand and dont bring up the know "issues"
🤔KTM with knobblies on 🤔 Africa twin NO knobblies 🤔 off road the KTM is better 😯 shocking!
also ... it is the "heavier" AT version, no ?
The KTM is better offroad regardless. Better suspension, better chassis, and KTM has buckets of offroad pedigree.
We tested the bikes with standard rubber supplied. Knobbies obviously help, but for the dry surfaces we were riding it wouldn't have made a huge difference and the different characteristics of the two bikes would still have shone through. The KTM feels lighter, better sprung and sharper. A tyre isn't going to change that.
Steve Ingham I owned Africa Twin which is great tourer on the road, ticks all the boxes for me apart from tubed tyres. I now own the 1090r which is great on and off road and tubeless tyres! But, plastic are not the same spec as the Africa Twin, but both great bikes. Whatever bikes you ride you will never find the perfect bike?🏴👍🤔
@@davemould5868 I found it: 950 adv ; For me its perfect ; Sure there is always something to improve and add but right now there is no other bike like this. Young enough to be reliable, yet old enough not to have all electronics bs to go wrong in worst moment.
Seems like everyone came into this ride with pre-formed conclusions.
Yes, completely useless review.
The Africa x2 is my choice DCT reliable what need more ?!
Best bike to own? The one you have right now...
My butt, back, and legs would disagree, lol.
Middleweight? By what standard? A KLR 650 or DR 650 are middleweights. These are heavy "adventure" bikes. I'll stick with my KTM 500 EXC, thanks.
snoopdoug LOL that's what I was thinking especially when I saw the Africa Twin in the lineup!
@mld 650cc-800cc more like middle weight even 850cc is pushing it a bit now at 229kg
mld While it is true that the KLR and DR 650 are dual sport bikes, when you are around the litre mark, you can't really call it middleweight, as you yourself have observed. These days manufacturers are introducing new models at every 50-100 cc increment so the line between middle and heavy weight is getting blurred but these bikes are clearly not middleweight. Maybe they could have called them middle-heavy weight but that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
Chris Hart Exactly. 650 to 800 cc is the range, even 850 cc. And yes, the weight. The lightest one here is 229 kg. Middleweight? I think not.
@@twistednemo I would think the minimum for an adventure bike would be 2 cylinders and at least 400cc. Anything else is a duel sport with extra plastics for wind protection. Small adventure 500-650. Not saying the really small stuff won't get you there but having the right tool for the job is always better.
So unexpected that they all showed up with different bikes !!! What a coïncidence !! Waaaw !!
Meanwhile the Himalayan is slowly chugging away up mountain and rough roads,while carrying 200 pounds of cargo
There is a huge difference between Himalayan and these bikes and i am sure you know that already.
A huge difference, mostly the dehydration you avoid by not crying so much about how much the resale price has fallen after you have dropped it a few times.
...all of which are the spare parts to replace the bits that will vibrate off along the way.
I don't think your passenger likes it when you call him/her "200 pounds of cargo" hahahaha
I was considering a BMW but now they cant make their own engines.....being made in China for cents on the dollar. Sorry I've already given them too much of my money from electronics that don't last, to home improvement products that are over priced for what you get. At least Honda and KTM still have confidence and pride in what they do! Buyer beware....shame on you BMW!
Well. KTM small bikes are made in India FYI
@FichDichInDemArsch parts are also manufactured in India
Got Tiger XRX Mid range road and I LOVE IT !
Seriously, some people think the was a really good review of these bikes.
My grandmother could have done better, and she's blind and in a wheelchair. But to be serious, this wasn't a review it was personal opinions of the bike they were on. The guy on the Honda was already hating on it when he showed up. Plus he apparently knows nothing about the bike at all. The 1090r and AT are great bikes. A lot is how you set it up and intend to ride it. I researched the 1090r and AT for a month and rode both.
A few of my personal findings. KTM 1090r
1. To tall for me.
2. Excessive engine heat on longer rides.
3. Harder for me to handle in the tight off road stuff.
4. Uncomfortable seat and riding position.
5. I will never need 125 hp off road. But the grin you get when you open it up can't be denied.
6. To be honest It's a heck of a bike.
Honda AT
1. Love the low seat position
2. Has a lower center of gravity and handles much better for me.
3. I liked the softer suspension, especially riding off road. Seemed to make it easier to manage. It's even better when properly set up.
4. 98 hp is plenty for me.
5. I liked that it had less electronics on it. Less to go wrong. ABS and traction control are plenty for me.
5. Its a Honda, Reliable !!
Both are the same as far as ground clearance and suspension travel. A lot comes down to rider preference. But please DO NOT let this video sway any decision to purchase any of these bikes. Especially the AT.
There are plenty of real test and comparisons on these bikes out there.
At the end I went with the AT and love it.
Plus it depends where you live and ride and what you want the bike for. AT sport is excellent for Australia maybe not so much for Wales on those so called trails.
Problem is not a bike it’s u
All too expensive. The big adventure bike market has become so fashionable it's becoming expensive.
mld Used 950 can be had for less then 5k. Best big offroader that doesn't suck on the highway.
you don't earn the same salary you did 10 years ago. neither do you pay same bills from 10 years ago. So why expect 10 year old prices on new bike? Factory overheads.. factory worker wages engineering budget are always upwards
They've actually come down in price relative to time. In 99 a GS was 17,000USD, which is actually more than they are now.
David Hardstaff it should be ! why u complain ? shut up if don't have money to buy big bikes
AT? Where's Nathan's Himalayan🤔.. it's lighter and 1/3 the price of the AT, and definitely more cool.
"Africa Twin is so soft, KTM is so hard, sporty ..." What's your point - both have adjustable preload and damping, front and rear! A few clicks in one or the other direction and you can make the KTM soft and Africa Twin hard as a rock right?
no... I have owned both. They are not talking about the suspension afaik, they are talking about the feel.
@@ridelive6249 - if you want hard and sporty and if you are over 6ft - get the KTM - all KTM owners literally love their bikes... unfortunately I am a little older and although I love the 690R enduro, I think I would trade it for the Honda... I heard the Triuph is very comfortable, the KTM is hard, hard narrow seat, firm ride and takes much longer to perfect!
@@ridelive6249 with low seat africa was better for me than triumph, and i 170cm..
My best friend (turned 56 and 300lb) is thinking about getting that KTM. I'm not as experienced as he is and I just purchased the regular AT with DCT. Great review! I think I made the right decision. Cheers
hope your friend survived being 300 lbs at age 56
@@rondobrondo I have no idea what was the context of my comment, but he got a gastric bypass. Much skin now, thank you for asking.
You guys have to do this all over again after the release of the 'KTM 790 Adventure R'.
I think 790r is in league of it's own.
And Yamaha Tenere 700.
Lovely scenery and photography and I enjoyed the banter. Very interesting to see the differences in the bikes. The KTM is of course the most fun (I own a 990 SMT) as always, and in my eyes, the best value for money. For real riding, aka doing very little off road, I'd suggest the Tiger XRT and the KTM Adventure S. The BMW seems, as usual, wildly overpriced for what it offers. It's a nice bike, and I don't know why, but BMW's practice of milking their customers for extras irritates me immensely.
To be honest, KTM is doing exactly the same as BMW. The stock price is cheap, but you don't get half of the stuff you want. Hell on my 1190 r I got the high crashbars and all the goodies for free. Now if you buy the 1290 r or 1090 R you have to buy all the protection bits you first got already on it, as some of the electronics.
yeah, i decided a while ago to start a one man boycott of bmw. they're money grubbers. charging a monthly fee for something other companies give away for free on $20k cars? weak. apple carplay is just another example of how much they love their customers... money.
I find it funny when in reviews people take Africa Twin Adventure Sports with DCT, complain that they took DCT and later they add that it is too tall... It is like I would take BMW F850GS and complain that it is too small for me (I'm quite tall). The ATAS is a bike for tall and you can point it but it is not a bad thing for everybody. Take riders that are well fitted for the bike next time. Next time you should exchange the bikes between each other to have a good comparison. Not to be only negativ (constructive) I have to say that it was well made and very interesting but not very convincing. Keep up good work
Exactly. Iam 6.2 and it fits perfectly like no other bike for me
@@TheConstar90 same for me
I agree, but if i'm right the adventure sports only comes with DCT. And you indeed always should buy a bike that fits you and it should not be a downside in any test.
I own manual adventure sports, so no it does not come only with DCT ;)
@@MrRbnq ok i was told wrong... thanks
Still no regrets of buying the Tiger
Yamaha XT660Z or CCM GP450 for me thanks, all yours are not really middle weights ( in my eyes)
The bike you named are light weight in this century... any lower and you will get playmobile or lego
have to agree Triumphs are most comfy and best sounding three cylinders
250-450cc lightweight, 500-750cc midnight, 800+ heavyweight or full size. 1200 = monster. Also why did you everyone start off hating the Africa twin? You obviously aren't going to be able to kick out the rear end on the dirt with those street tires. If you just did 5 min of googling you'd have figured out how to use the DCT, and how to adjust the seat to the lowest setting before you even got on the bike.
I've ridden the DCT equipped bike plenty of times. I know the settings and I know DCT is not for me. But sometimes manufactures force you to have what they want you to talk about. If you like it, then great.
Should have gone with the Suzuki DR650(you can literally buy two DR650s for the price of these), its half the price and twice the reliability. Add heated grips for $50 and front and rear shocks for $400 and its a FANTASTIC adventure bike
U trippin 😂😂😂
@@Angry-Lynx not 3 years ago when I wrote this...
I'll take the KTM, but not a bad bike in this bunch.
If you were interested in buying one of these for ADV use, this video is useless. I've seen a video where four riders shared a ride while swapping bikes. It may have been the same brand bikes. Three out of four chose the Africa Twin for overall (dirt/road). In this video it was laughed at almost immediately. I think these guys were defending their choice for this ride rather than give an unbiased opinion. Take for instance I have a Vstrom 650. It is a true middleweight ADV class that is best for that class. IMO of course.
Great comparison! I have the 2022 1290 SAR with which I compete with, but I still drool over the 1090R and the ATwin….
1200 Tiger explorer owner here. It's hands down best bike on the planet.
I thought the almost completely positive comments about the Triumph said a lot. Most of these bikes will see very little off road traveling, mostly contained to dirt/fire roads here in the US.
The first comments about the BMW were somewhat negative, That tells me BMW may have some catching up to the Triumph to do, especially concerning their "Premium" (for what you get) cost over the others. I thought it was odd that the Africa Twin had road tires.
A light weight 600cc version of one of these bikes would be ideal. Just can't decide on what brand I want this unicorn to be 🤔
Yes! If they made 600cc versions of these bikes, that would be cool.
Did you say a KLR 650 would be ideal?
Litres all the way for adv
Good job. Simon had the best bike, least criticism and best on road.
In that case I'd suggest the xrt and settle for it being an upright road tourer.
Out of all the bikes the AT got the lowest rating.🤨 AT will be my next bike.
Moto Mookie you won’t be disappointed
Don't go by their review. It seems they already hated the Twin before it even left the showroom.
AT? Do u mean DCT transmission??
You'll be stopping to help KTM and BMW riders wherever you go...
This video and my last one create an interesting juxtaposition!
On the fence at the moment between getting an Africa Twin and a KTM. This video definitely guided my decision, Thanks !! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
So, how did it go after 4 years?
1. Africa twin 2. Ktm 3. Bmw 4. Triumph
Video makes no sense, judges the bikes where they are not susposed to be used, different tires so comparing handeling you can throw out the window
Love the speedy sheep at around the 18 minute mark. Great video and very relevant.
KTM 1090 (230kg) and Honda CRF 1000L (243kg).........what do you plan on having in a heavyweight comparison?!!
bmw 270kg
Hello from Seattle! Great video, it is nice to see these kind of comparisons. Can't wait to see what comes out next!
Yes and yes. Definitely some gems around here
Would love to see a klr 650 in the mix trying to keep up
1000 cc middleweights :P. There is something to be said for the Tiger with all the options but I would easily chose the KTM over the others. Its got way more motor and I think it will get more under the skin so to say. The others just seem a little bit blend compared to it imo. Definately would chose the more road orriented version tho.
No, you should take the R version always because of the suspension and if you want to ride it on the road you should buy road tires... then it will smoke all the bikes of these four on the road too...
@mld i still rather have the KTM and spend some 2000eu on it. In Holland the price difference with the manual is more than 2000 eu
@mld yes and im a big guy so the r version of the KTM is much better choice for me...
I'll take the Triumph please.
Yes and yes and yes.
They should have all the guys ride all the bikes... it's not really a comprehensive comparison if different people talk about one single bike each. But it's a nice video.
Afrika Twin is the queen! ;)
Yeah but the superadventure is the king
Great Review guys, I always find myself walking over to the KTM 1090R at the dealerships, it has the least electronics but just looks the business, I have three bikes in the garage and really want to add the KTM, now if you can do a video on how to convince the wife for an adventure tourer, since I have a cruiser, sports tourer and a naked!!! the KTM is the only thing missing from paradise.
Great review, amazing scenery, Tiger for me..
Gained another sub. Great video quality and chemistry between you guys. Felt very Top Gear-like in all the positive ways. Keep it up
There is an old, new king back on the scene, called Yamaha T7.
This bike is offering less gimmicks for old men but much more driving ecstasy than all of these bikes together.
U forgot one thing: 790 adventure R laughs in distance at your king comment D:
Oh the Honda is to tall... put the seat in the low position then!! “Has the DCT been changed?” Yes they are constantly making it better. Why do you get idiots who know nothing about bikes to review them?
AlSpeed89 they did put it in the lower position. It took all 4 of them to figure out. Made the process something else to complain about. How pathetic are these guys. I hate tall bikes, I hate DCT, supposedly you got to choose your bike. You must be a special kind of stupid. The guy on the Triumph likes pavement and doesn’t like off road. Of course he likes the wee 800. It’s as much of an off road bike as a Harley Davidson. Worst review/comparison I have ever seen. Please stop.
Great reviews Chaps, though I agree with Nathan the standard AT is a much better comparison against the other three bikes. The ATAS is a specialist bike for adventure travel not everyday. But as a AT fan boy, my god I want the KTM 😍😍😍
Iam_ mono I ride my ATAS every day in all weather conditions the main issue is its a big tall bike for big tall people which is going to upset people who find it to big ! But it’s great for me. There are so many bikes out there that I simply cannot ride because they are set up for lighter shorter people that I would love to own but cannot !! This Honda is brilliant and ticks all my boxes !! My previous bike was a 2010 Ktm 990 which was great. Very different and very expensive to run and repair very different build quality. Having had 2 990 adv and 4 690’s !! I have finally learnt my lessons on build quality and reliability. But you cannot say I didn’t try lol
Holly shit! That tiger peg grind at the end, sweet!
Well done! Enjoyable video and interesting comparison. The only thing that bothered me is the sound. They all sound like hedge trimmers, don't you think?
when talking about HP or BHP, the manufacturer should put each model of bike on a Dyno. That way there is very little difference between pulls. The Dyno also tells torque values, as well as speed. All engines lose power when going through the drivetrain and accessories. This way you should get a true picture of what the bikes capabilities are to the ground.
The KTM 1090 , probably one of the best pure motorcycles ever built. I just wish it had a kick starter. Then it would be perfect.
I like the Africa Twin but a white frame on adventure bike is rather daft,there are going to be parts which you will never manage to clean and the bike could soon look old.
I had the first generation of the new AT and it was great but I'm glad Honda have listened to what customers want and have fitted the larger tank and fitted the flatter seat.
Great work guys. I love these videos! I'm a 46 year old guy from New York. I loved my little brother's NX 650 but I am way behind the times. Can you point me in the right direction?
That was a great test by guys that really know what they are talking about. I like them all!!
Forget bout horse power and torque, new KTMs has the best computer, feels like it's giving you a hand to push further rather than keeping you in control like patronizing way
another great vid! after the proper release of the 790 adventure, will KTM still produce the 1090? if so, will it finally get the TFT display it deserves?
Excellent, dare I say appropriate, place to park up for the intro at 5:05 (background)🙂
Hello.Where you record this film?Very good test.I think about KTM Vs AT
That "let's meet up at a place on whatever you choose top gear style" is getting a bit old for me.and a 1090 ktm...middleweight?and no one got the same bike.......and they arrive a minute apart......
The Top Gear format! :)
Came here for what you reported on at minutes 13 to 15. Thank you!
you cant really compare off rd performance between the bikes unless you have similar tires!
Would find it fun to try my first motorcycle ~1974 Honda 250 Elisnore 2 stroke on off road. I had great fun riding in farm community I lived in !
Anyone with good sense chooses the bike based on their actual uses for it (and not their subconscious fantasy-life bias!). If you're going to ride on roads all the time or with a pillion (with the option to go offroad once or twice a year), you'd choose a Tiger or Vstrom. If you grewup on dirtbikes and live in the desert, forest or outer Mongolia on your own, you should definitely get a KTM. If youre new to adventure bikes and cant decide what you want, a BMW is your safe bet.
I've had an Africa Twin for 2 years and wouldn't exchange it for any of the others. I live in New Zealand where backcountry dirt, sand, river crossings, and mountainside trails are everywhere and i'll push my offroad skills to some degree at least a couple of times every month, and the bike eats it all up like nothing (with minimum luggage and suspensions lowered, which takes 30 seconds btw!). At other times i also load up the bike with 4 packed boxes/tankbag & a pillion and ride for 6-8 hours to get a remote campspot and its comfy, capable and fun. For the many, many twisty roads its got plenty of power, control & great balance to pretend its a racing bike and laugh with delight on corners.
The DCT isnt something you take to on your first ride (or 5 rides) because having no fine clutch control on slow speed u-turns is just, odd (but you re-learn it, to almost... damn-near, the same level of control anyway). You warm to DCT with ownership, until one day you realise all the benefits are soooo much better. Its not about the automatic changes either (i hardly ever use auto mode), more the simple click to change gear in any situation (& knowing you simply cannot stall on event the gnarliest terrain), but the bike on gravel, sand, loose boulders, mud, grass or anything just loves it all and makes you a better rider.
Maybe i'll change my mind in the future (will consider a KTM 790 next time), but i'm convinced the AT is absolutely the best bike for this wide range of use, and none of the others could do all of those riding styles/terrain, so perfectly.
good video, its hard to pack a lot of information into a bike video and not make it boring, and to balance the riding footage, you've done a fair job, more off road clips would have been good. i'll look out for the next one :-)
Ktm is my top choice but since it isn't available in my country I'll go for the Africa twin..... BTW : I don't own a motorcycle
So far my Triumph T120 is able to give me my offroad adventures :) We'll see how it does in Moab this weekend!
Could not have picked a better place, Elan valley is great, own a Africa Twin and now about too take delivery of a KTM 1090r😁🏴
Looking forward to the 2019 middleweight review which will hopefully include the new Yamaha and KTM bikes.
Very nicely done - funny & great scenery, KTM for me...what else?
Need two bikes, KTM and a Triumph, since this is a year and a half later, KTM 790 adventure, need lower height, and 1200 scrambler xc, again the lower seat height. I have been riding a 2008 690e and love it as I am more in the dirt. But at the are of 69 I think the 790 will allow be better road manners on the way to far off adventures.
Don’t like the bike when it is sitting still ? That is a criticism ? So you don’t ride your bikes then ?
I rode a BMW 800 vertical twin years ago when I took my K bike in for service. It's motor had all the personality of a lawnmower and about the same amount of excitement. I hope the KTM 790 Adventure has a bit more character (you know it will). I'm looking for something about 200kg, or thereabouts. These are all a bit porky considering their "middleweight" displacement. Singles are too uncivilized. I've had large thumpers, going all the way back to a BSA 441 Victor. Never again. A twin could be the thing that gets me back into street/dirt exploring.
The never bmw parallel twins have much better character!
@@alindberg8001 My local BMW dealer decided to retire and his sons who were working with him have decided to move on to other businesses. The KTM dealer is going strong. I wish there was an Aprilia dealer in the area. No Ducati or Moto Guzzi here either. The usual Japanese brands are all here. Rumors of a Transalp revival from Big Red are intriguing. Orange or Red for me?
Never thought 1200GS is a good adventure bike off road. Considering the weight at one liter realm, it could be off road as every bike is adv, but it is weight too heavy to maneuver on off road. Another aspect shall be on the list, it’s the cost of using a bike. I never thought a GS can be much better deal than the other brand in its class. Expensive parts made you pay more over the use of bike. I am not a GS hater. Let’s narrow down those bike’s features just on touring adventures for what the bikes are supposed to do. Is it a GS worth paying/costing that much, while being compared to the other reliable brands which have lower barrier to buy and do the exactly the same thing and sometimes even better?
KTM ..... Tried and Tested . Their engineering is a class apart . My personal opinion . 👍🏼
Yamaya Tracer 900 GT is the best sport adventure touring you can buy in 2019. Value for your money.
We're well past 2018 and bikes still cost well over 15K here in AU, not to mention the new replacement parts law restrictions that have hindered our freedom to purchase parts from private sellers! Living in OZ truly suck
Great photography! Would have been much better if the riders swapped bikes.
some cool bikes would love to see another test with more lightweight 400-700cc catagory of bike. ALSO can i ask what helmet your wearing looks great
Really nicely shot and produced, good fun to watch. ATAS seemed oversized compared to the others, why not put the standard bike in the test? Especially when that’s what you conclude that you’d prefer?!
This mates-banter-top-gear-esque thing is a bit done, don’t you think? You’re all great presenters, I’d value hearing what you really think and deeper insight.
Anyway, still a good watch, keep em coming
Because the normal AT is worse... soft suspension etc...crappy display, corrosion on the rims...
Mainly because the Adventure Sports was new for this year, so it makes sense to feature it. And I suppose we needed to bring that one along to realise (in my opinion as the guy on the bike) that the standard one would have been preferable.
The 1100cc limit seems a bit arbitrary. Clearly the KTM and Africa Twin are closer to other manufacturers 1200's in size and weight.
I never had a low cc stree bike, only dirtbikes, and 1100cc + motorcycles. I want to get a nice dual sport that can do some off-roading I had the ktm 790 R in mind. Being a low cc bike Would that get boring quickly on road? Also would the bigger 1000cc+ bikes be too heavy to practically go offroad? I live in Florida so off road is mainly sand where i live. I'm worried the bigger bikes will be a bit too heavy and i won't be able to control it well in the sand vs a lighter bike. I also want the oomph when i'm bored on the street and to make passing ppl on the highways quick and safe.
Yamaha Tenere 700
Africa twin. Standard, no adventure version needed, also manual shift brings weight down by 10 kilos
My poor 13 duke 690 just took a crap. Less than 15k miles in over 7 years and the rocker arm bearings gave out cause cam damage. First KTM I bought, last KTM I will ever buy. Going back to a Honda vfr1200 x or a Yamaha Super Tenre.......
Adventure sport is an overkill. Standard should do just fine. But Ktm looks awesome
How is 229kg a middleweight. It’s a lump of lard
Again Nathan gives another honest review. Top Marks Sir.
my favourite is the honda and will always be
Someone realised the painting on the container in the background at 5:00 ? ;)
Dude I missed that completely 😂
Banana hahaha
Not a doubt about it, three SWEET rides.
6.43 Beautiful road beautiful country and beautiful motorcycle.
Chippy.. Which jacket is he wearing. Looks excellent
To me "middleweight" in an adventure bike is 350 to 430 pounds. Any heavier than that in the difficult terrain is a pig. It must be able to do highway speeds all day, have a suspension with ample travel and carry more than four gallons for the adventure to begin. The list of bikes that meet this criteria is few.
Paul H maybe a Honda Transalp? I have the 600v. I know it’s not made any more but the used ones are quality dual sport bikes.
Good choice- it should be updated and re-introduced to the U.S. market. It, or the 650 V-Stronm, but with 50 pounds shaved off it.
What makes them "middle-weight"? They are ALL 30+kg heavier than may mate's 2005 1200GS!