Thank you for the excellent job of explaining installing rings on the pistons and setting the proper end gaps. You are an excellent teacher, my friend. You have probably saved many home built engines from destruction.
i can confirm ring gaps are an often overlooked thing when turbo converting engines. i left the stock gap and cracked ALL my pistons ring lands. no sign of lean running or premature detonation. just from the heat the rings closed and flexed. Live and learn....and NEVER forget to gap properly for the cars performance level. More power, More ring gap
@@cuttersperformance most definitely and when you go look at stock na ring gaps compared to any performance applications gap you would find 2 times as much as you had.
Whats the recommended gaps for boost(up to 10psi) and then up to around 20psi? And depending on piston alloy,how much of a difference is there in gap allowance
When chamber pressure goes up it create more heat. AFR combine with spark plug temperature can diminish heat. I think you need more ring gap if you have force induction or nitrous
Why? I know some machines do one side and some guys say only grind one side....whats the benifit? If you keep the ends square, what's wrong? Ive been grinding rings like this forever and haven't had any sort of issue
@cuttersperformance well, I shouldn't say never to do so, it's just more of a best practice to only grind one end. It allows you to keep a perfectly parallel face to keep checking your grind against to make sure your not slightly grinding at an angle. By grinding both, if you aren't careful and slightly grind at an angle, you'll end up with two angled ends like this / / where as if you only grind one side you end up like this | / and you can fix that much easier without overshooting your target gap.
If all the pro builders say to do one side. It's good enough for me. You answered your own question as to why. Easy to take it off.Can't get it back. Also Is recommendation of a proper file to deber would have been good. Also the second ring can be up 20 thousand larger. Seen it tested. You could also add Which way is up on a ring. Additional Orientation of rings. The benefit of accuracy of torque hone, and check ring gab with torque plate installed. For those of you that don't know. Watch more than one video before you dig in. Not all youtube Channels or machine shops. Are the same.
I went big on my re-ring job like .028 top .030 bottom (boosted) but I should have checked for bore taper, I think my cylinders are well worn. When I checked brand new rings they were checking in at like .022 LOL
I screwed up on Z Gap rings, I have done file fit but with the Z Gap, I assumed since they had the lower ring to help seal it, why would you need to Gap them……? Well, luckily one ring stuck, but it ran on its own base pressure to the point I couldn’t shut the engine down. Luckily I’d didn’t damage the pistons or seize the engine!
Ive don't it that way since I was like 12 😅 might be "wrong" but ive never had an issue and know other guys in their 60s that have always done it "wrong" too
As far to the bottom as possible. The top of the bore will be worn larger and setting the gap there will make the gap too tight at the bottom of the bore
Hi i'm working on my old D17A2 civic i check the end gap with STD new rings and the gap is off, can i buy oversize rings and grind the to spec end gap? spec is max 0.30 mm how much more of that can i go
Are newly installed piston rings meant to make a slight scraping noise when crank is turned by hand for first time? I even ended up uninstalling the piston to check the rings and cyclinder wall and it all looks good. Is this a normal sound for new piston rings riding on the de-glazed surface? Hope you can help put my mind at ease!
I'm using sealed power hypereutectic pistons H815DCP with Hastings 2M4860 piston ring set. In a Chevy 5.7 vortec everyday driver. I contacted Hastings and they recommended TOP = .026” Min. 2ND = .018” Min. But top measure .022 to .024. should I open the top ring to .026 and the 2nd ring larger to prevent ring flutter ?
Hey Josh! if im not mistaken those rings are the "Metric" vortec style rings. Im really surprised that hasting recommend that large of gap. Thats like big shot of nitrous sized gap haha I like to get .0045 to .005 per inch of bore for the top and .005 to .0055 for the 2nd. I don't want to go against the ring manufactures directions but maybe you should talk to them again
I read a article long time ago in super chevy on tips for free horsepower and one was the right end gap it was a impressive number per cylinder that is correct but I can’t remember
Its a 880 block with vortec heads. I'm using the sealed power moly rings. Should I pull it back apart? Love you videos and watched them before porting and you really helped me out!
The non broken piston right? Haha You'll be fine as long as the engine isn't being used for extended periods of time at full throttle (circle track) or if you plan on using power adders. Vortecs heads you will make great power but not enough to need .020 on the top Naturally aspirated
@@cuttersperformance Dude thank you so much for answering back! Ok awesome thank you! Sealed power said same thing as you. Yeah I'm using the H631CP it says, even using Scat rods like yours lol. Pistons are 18 down in hole, using GM .028 gasket. I'm coming up with 10.2:1 on the calculator. Running the XR276HR. After the porting I'm hoping for 420hp?
RPM Air Gap, choke-less Proform main bodied 3310 Holley. Davis unified HEI. But mid length 1 5/8" headers with 3" into dual 3 chambers. 420 and 450lb ft is what I'm hoping for? Still working on the heads.
You'll for sure be close! Thats a great cam, I've used it a few times. Are you going to dyno it? With a mild port job and that cam my guess would be 415 to 420hp and probably around 425 Tq.
Do you have a favorite ring manufacturer? Also I havent seen anyone talking about adjusting the oil scraping ring. I found on my build that the oil scraper and rings seems almost too big for the piston. Havent bored the block yet so I dont know how it will look inte block.. Also it would be interesting with a video about oil drain back. I drilled oil drain back holes in my new pistons. Seemed like a good idea from what I have read. But your view on it would be interesting to hear.
For sbcs I use alot of Hastings or sealed power and for wild stuff I've used total seal (not gapless) Sorry maybe I should have touched base on the oil rings, obviously need to be checked but also never needs to be adjusted As far as drilling oil holes, this is something that I've seen used with low tension rings to help keep oil control down. I don't use alot of low tension stuff so drilling pistons isn't something I do but I also haven't had issues with oil consumption Cheers!
Hay bud im fitting a new cylinder and pidton and rings on my engine my cylinder bore is 57.4 using a pisyon ring gap caculater i get ring gaps to be Top 0.23 2nd 0.28 Oil 0.8 Would you say this is about right for normal street use
Yeah .23mm/.28mm is about right for that piston but always refer to the piston/ring manufacturer for gap into if available. Especially with a small bore
@@cuttersperformance i have manufacture spec but its for the stock 54mm bore my new kit dident come with any paperwork it was a cheapo kit lol but thats great thank you for your help
@@cuttersperformance ok Iam building a derby engine 355 with promaxx iron vortec heads and wasn't familiar with the kieth blacks seen a bunch of reviews of tops coming off what's your input on that
Most guys dont check or follow KB top ring gap recommendation, which is wider than normal. Most KB pistons use a .0065 x bore size vs the regular. 004 x bore
I ordered a scat 935050l sbc 3.75” 1 pc main 5.7” and need help ordering piston i was looking at speed master piston set PCE 305.1002 4.30 bore flat top for 383 sbc stroker would this be the right ones for the crankshaft? Thanks for your knowledge
If deck height is the at 9 inches then you will need a piston with a 1.425" inch compression height (3.75 stroke 5.7 rod). But at the stock deck height that piston will be .025 in the hole
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Thank you for the excellent job of explaining installing rings on the pistons and setting the proper end gaps. You are an excellent teacher, my friend. You have probably saved many home built engines from destruction.
I greatly appreciate that positive feeback! Thank you
i can confirm ring gaps are an often overlooked thing when turbo converting engines. i left the stock gap and cracked ALL my pistons ring lands. no sign of lean running or premature detonation. just from the heat the rings closed and flexed. Live and learn....and NEVER forget to gap properly for the cars performance level. More power, More ring gap
Yeah its what kills most NA engines that have added to them
@@cuttersperformance most definitely and when you go look at stock na ring gaps compared to any performance applications gap you would find 2 times as much as you had.
I was always taught that you only file one side, not both at once
Yeah that is true, ive always filed both but some will do one side and then use the other other end to verify squareness
Best rings video I've seen
Thank you
Thank you for the excellent job
Whats the recommended gaps for boost(up to 10psi) and then up to around 20psi? And depending on piston alloy,how much of a difference is there in gap allowance
Gap em wide and boost em high 🤘🤘😎
Thats what's im talking about! Hell yeah brother
Mahle pistons.
Great video thanks a ton. This helps everyone out there.
Thank you for your knowledge 💪🏽 USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸
When chamber pressure goes up it create more heat. AFR combine with spark plug temperature can diminish heat. I think you need more ring gap if you have force induction or nitrous
Old video, I know. But just an FYI, you should NOT be filing both ends of the rings like shown in this video. File one side of the gap only.
Why? I know some machines do one side and some guys say only grind one side....whats the benifit? If you keep the ends square, what's wrong? Ive been grinding rings like this forever and haven't had any sort of issue
@cuttersperformance well, I shouldn't say never to do so, it's just more of a best practice to only grind one end. It allows you to keep a perfectly parallel face to keep checking your grind against to make sure your not slightly grinding at an angle. By grinding both, if you aren't careful and slightly grind at an angle, you'll end up with two angled ends like this / / where as if you only grind one side you end up like this | / and you can fix that much easier without overshooting your target gap.
If all the pro builders say to do one side. It's good enough for me. You answered your own question as to why. Easy to take it off.Can't get it back. Also Is recommendation of a proper file to deber would have been good. Also the second ring can be up 20 thousand larger. Seen it tested. You could also add Which way is up on a ring. Additional Orientation of rings. The benefit of accuracy of torque hone, and check ring gab with torque plate installed. For those of you that don't know. Watch more than one video before you dig in. Not all youtube Channels or machine shops. Are the same.
I went big on my re-ring job like .028 top .030 bottom (boosted) but I should have checked for bore taper, I think my cylinders are well worn. When I checked brand new rings they were checking in at like .022 LOL
Awesome job explaining this! I watched a few videos but this for sure was the one that made it all click in my head. Thanks!
With speedpro hypers I run .021 top .023 second with lower tension oil rings and lite pin runs awsome
Exactly the video I need right now
I screwed up on Z Gap rings, I have done file fit but with the Z Gap, I assumed since they had the lower ring to help seal it, why would you need to Gap them……? Well, luckily one ring stuck, but it ran on its own base pressure to the point I couldn’t shut the engine down. Luckily I’d didn’t damage the pistons or seize the engine!
You should only take material off of one side only.not both sides
Just found this . Excellent explanation. 2006 Subaru sti po302 possible ringland failure
6:36 I'm out. DO NOT! Squeeze the ring together in grind both sides. There are several videos out there explaining why. Good luck
Ive don't it that way since I was like 12 😅 might be "wrong" but ive never had an issue and know other guys in their 60s that have always done it "wrong" too
Great video 👍🏻🇦🇺
Better to have a little more than not enough.
yeah har 1st
If my bore is tapered where do I set the ring to measure the gap?
As far to the bottom as possible. The top of the bore will be worn larger and setting the gap there will make the gap too tight at the bottom of the bore
Hi i'm working on my old D17A2 civic i check the end gap with STD new rings and the gap is off, can i buy oversize rings and grind the to spec end gap? spec is max 0.30 mm how much more of that can i go
Are newly installed piston rings meant to make a slight scraping noise when crank is turned by hand for first time?
I even ended up uninstalling the piston to check the rings and cyclinder wall and it all looks good.
Is this a normal sound for new piston rings riding on the de-glazed surface?
Hope you can help put my mind at ease!
I'm using sealed power hypereutectic pistons H815DCP with Hastings 2M4860 piston ring set. In a Chevy 5.7 vortec everyday driver. I contacted Hastings and they recommended
TOP = .026” Min.
2ND = .018” Min.
But top measure .022 to .024. should I open the top ring to .026 and the 2nd ring larger to prevent ring flutter ?
What end gap would you recommend ?
Hey Josh!
if im not mistaken those rings are the "Metric" vortec style rings.
Im really surprised that hasting recommend that large of gap. Thats like big shot of nitrous sized gap haha
I like to get .0045 to .005 per inch of bore for the top and .005 to .0055 for the 2nd.
I don't want to go against the ring manufactures directions but maybe you should talk to them again
Hi, I have one question, my piston rings have 0.100 mm, will it cause a problem with compression. Thanks
Can you try and give me the right gap for my 302. Bored out .40
Should be the same as a SBC.
4.040 Bore size with hyper pistons. N/A street strip build
TOP RING - .017 to .020
2nd RING - .020 to .023
Kills Subaru pistons all the time. Factory gap is very tight and turning uip the power always kills em.
I'm building a 350 .60 over with 6in rods. I'm going 20 on top right 24 25 on 2nd ring ..only because I may turbo it
Hey thank you for this valuable information!!! I'm working on my diesels, 7.3 powerstrokes and this helped clear up a lot of questions 😀
I have made a few rings kiss. Makes for very dramatic pictures
Thanks!
I read a article long time ago in super chevy on tips for free horsepower and one was the right end gap it was a impressive number per cylinder that is correct but I can’t remember
How much ring gap do I need for a stock 350 rpm 4000 to 4700 rpm boat engine .
Hi am building a 355 with srp forged piston,twin turbo the goal its 800 to 1000 hp how much gap i gotta have to use
Check what SRP recommends but it should be around .030 top ring and .032 to .035 2nd ring
Wow you're a great teacher
Bro I tored my engine apart but the standard ring size I ordered are smaller then the ones I ordered. But both are standard, should I go 1 size up?
Smaller how? Like in diameter?
Just built a motor with these exact same pistons. I went 17 top and 20 2nd. Had to grind 2nd gap but they were supposed to be good to go
Its a 880 block with vortec heads. I'm using the sealed power moly rings. Should I pull it back apart? Love you videos and watched them before porting and you really helped me out!
The non broken piston right? Haha You'll be fine as long as the engine isn't being used for extended periods of time at full throttle (circle track) or if you plan on using power adders.
Vortecs heads you will make great power but not enough to need .020 on the top Naturally aspirated
@@cuttersperformance Dude thank you so much for answering back! Ok awesome thank you! Sealed power said same thing as you. Yeah I'm using the H631CP it says, even using Scat rods like yours lol. Pistons are 18 down in hole, using GM .028 gasket. I'm coming up with 10.2:1 on the calculator. Running the XR276HR. After the porting I'm hoping for 420hp?
RPM Air Gap, choke-less Proform main bodied 3310 Holley. Davis unified HEI. But mid length 1 5/8" headers with 3" into dual 3 chambers. 420 and 450lb ft is what I'm hoping for? Still working on the heads.
You'll for sure be close! Thats a great cam, I've used it a few times. Are you going to dyno it? With a mild port job and that cam my guess would be 415 to 420hp and probably around 425 Tq.
Do you have a favorite ring manufacturer?
Also I havent seen anyone talking about adjusting the oil scraping ring. I found on my build that the oil scraper and rings seems almost too big for the piston.
Havent bored the block yet so I dont know how it will look inte block..
Also it would be interesting with a video about oil drain back. I drilled oil drain back holes in my new pistons. Seemed like a good idea from what I have read. But your view on it would be interesting to hear.
For sbcs I use alot of Hastings or sealed power and for wild stuff I've used total seal (not gapless)
Sorry maybe I should have touched base on the oil rings, obviously need to be checked but also never needs to be adjusted
As far as drilling oil holes, this is something that I've seen used with low tension rings to help keep oil control down. I don't use alot of low tension stuff so drilling pistons isn't something I do but I also haven't had issues with oil consumption
Cheers!
❤❤❤❤🎉😊
Hay bud im fitting a new cylinder and pidton and rings on my engine my cylinder bore is 57.4 using a pisyon ring gap caculater i get ring gaps to be
Top 0.23
2nd 0.28
Oil 0.8
Would you say this is about right for normal street use
What bore size do you have? 57.4mm?
@@cuttersperformance hi yes 57.4mm sorry i should of stated that
Yeah .23mm/.28mm is about right for that piston but always refer to the piston/ring manufacturer for gap into if available. Especially with a small bore
@@cuttersperformance i have manufacture spec but its for the stock 54mm bore my new kit dident come with any paperwork it was a cheapo kit lol but thats great thank you for your help
Do u like a kieth black hypertectic piston are they any good?
Ive used a few sets in the 425 to 500hp range and never had an issue with them
@@cuttersperformance ok Iam building a derby engine 355 with promaxx iron vortec heads and wasn't familiar with the kieth blacks seen a bunch of reviews of tops coming off what's your input on that
Most guys dont check or follow KB top ring gap recommendation, which is wider than normal.
Most KB pistons use a .0065 x bore size vs the regular. 004 x bore
@@cuttersperformance right that's what I was thinking Issue was most don't red instrusctons anyways do u have a good email I can write u on there
Pcperformance1@outlook.com
I ordered a scat 935050l sbc 3.75” 1 pc main 5.7” and need help ordering piston i was looking at speed master piston set PCE 305.1002 4.30 bore flat top for 383 sbc stroker would this be the right ones for the crankshaft? Thanks for your knowledge
If deck height is the at 9 inches then you will need a piston with a 1.425" inch compression height (3.75 stroke 5.7 rod). But at the stock deck height that piston will be .025 in the hole