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"they didn't lie! good job" It's kinda sad that we reached this point. We'll have to congratulate brands not for doing something great but rather for not lying. Something that should be normal is now an exceptionally rare situation.
Could be worse. Name a politician who did what they promised they'd do when they were elected. And they have way more power over our lives than products and services.
if it makes you feel better it’s only going to get worse from here
@@Demmrir actually incorrect, seeing as corporations control the presidents.
@@Demmrir I mean it happens all the time, like former US president Donald Trump for example, (I don't like him but he's well known).
He lied a lot, and didn't do things he said he'd do. But he did do some things that he promised, like start the construction of the wall, and lower taxes (although they didn't go down for everyone)
“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
I'm assuming that the founders of the HDMI standard.. Sony, Panasonic etc intentionally wanted to do this to sell old stock of items by confusing everyone. Simple as that
Yeah I totally agree, like putting a badge on a worse car trying to sell more
First thing I thought. I have the same feeling with the USB thing actually. "but now we have all this old stock we can't sell since there is a newer version available, we'll just rename it for the people who don't know much about technology, they won't need the new standard anyway and will never notice".
Could an anti consumer case be brought against them
Jim sterling aptly coined this kind of con a "confusopoly" and it absolutely works. Throw enough confusing shit at the wall and eventually consumers will just throw their hands in the air, give up, and just buy something at random.
@@zeron851 ah yes he used that for the pre order madness with confusing and often useless rewards so people will just get the expensive one afraid they will miss out..amongst other scam tactics in gaming like games as service bs. The problem is that like this the whioe industry is adapting these shady tactics, so choice is getting les and less. That is why I like the no bullshit stamp they were talking about. Sad times when we have to give some kind of praise for not being scammed though. .
This just in: Consumer Technology Association, in an effort to help with standardization, is announcing that as of now the 'Standard Dynamic Range' (SDR) displays will be renamed to 'HDR Gen 1' displays. So if you see an 'HDR Gen 1' badge, that means it doesn't have HDR.
This just in: Stereo audio has now been renamed to 'Dolby Atmos Gen 1', to help customers.
This just in: To ensure my customer satisfaction, VW has retroactively rebranded my Jetta as 'Porsche 911 Gen 1'.
omg Dolby Atmos Gen 1 im dying
@@Haligonian No, no, get this: Dolby Atmos 2.0.0
Technically true (?)
@@jerry855202 surround sounds is a great example of dumb renaming. Originally 5.1 meant 5 speakers and a subwoofer/lfe which covered 10% or 0.1 of frequency spectrum. Now after the first number the other ones don't represent anything other than speaker number and we've got more number spaces than before
@@jerry855202 I'm pretty sure at one point one of the USBs was called USB super speed 3.2x2 gen 2. Aka USB super speed three point two by two gen two. Boy that's easy to understand! Even tech nerds like us in these comments get confused by that shit
rtx 4090ti gen 1 (a gtx 1050)
I'm with Luke here, I don't need Labs to tell me I need to buy something, I need Labs to tell me something meets spec. I'm really hoping that you guys at least consider some sort of labs certification label that can make it easier for at a glance spec adherence.
_I_ for one would love to see LTT Lab do the No BS rating. If the manufacturer says 'this spec', it meets or exceeds 'this spec'.
Have a "Fresh" label for anything that meets the specs it advertises, and a "Stinks" label for anything that doesn't pass the sniff test.
@@KTSpeedruns Too similar to Rotten Tomatoes. I would probably keep it close to the LTT fandom, where a fail is simply "Drop."
@@shepherdsgamingrun Shop or Drop?
Call it the 'L\T rating', denoting whether the stated specs are Lies or Truth...
Yea, but the things is also
Hundreds of monitors would need to be checked, you'd need a team just doing that all the time.
Can't just only check a few lg, samsung and other brands but all, otherwise you cannot compare between them
*Slaps 'HDMI 2.1' sticker on old 2019 overstock*
Amazon listing: "Updated 2021 Model, now with HDMI 2.1!"
"Award" isn't the way I would think about it.
An LTT certificate would be how I would do it.
Having a web page or something you can put the cable brand and model info into and it tells you at the top if it's LTT certified (performs as advertised) or not and then you can scroll down and see more details about how well it tested would be so useful.
This is solid.
Look at Snell's websites for how they list out helmets. Get really granular with it and show the data.
Lenovo actually has a pretty good and detailed specification sheet for literally each and every single one of their product SKUs from each and every single one of their product categories. It includes every single variant (let's say, a laptop with different amounts of RAM or Storage or anything) from every single country of a single product. They call it PSREF. It's extremely helpful, you can check it out. Hope all (or atleast the other big guys like HP or Dell) manufacturers adopt this kind of specs and features databasing for their products too.
Thanks for the advice, i appreciate it :)!
Yep. Even small things like, does this USB C port support video out or power in, that other OEMs just don't provide.
If *literally* everything that is supposed to make HDMI 2.1 superior to HDMI 2.0 is optional, then what was the fucking point here?!
They might as well have released these as optional features *on top of* the HDMI 2.0 standard, and awarded 2.1 to products that went above and beyond, it would've been more honest.
Instead they did the consumers dirty by allowing many manufactures to just re-label their old 2.0 products as 2.1 and push them onto less knowledgeable consumers.
That a HDMI 2.0 product can be superior to a HDMI 2.1 product, both following their standard, means HDMI has failed as a standard.
"That a HDMI 2.0 product can be superior to a HDMI 2.1 product, both following their standard, means HDMI has failed as a standard."
Lets make a new standard that ACTUALLY reflects the product spec. No more HDMI 2.1 and USB 3.2++++++
Now it shall be Ver 1, ver 2, ver 3!
@Th4tGuyll:
You just made me think of something else:
Imagine if a toilet-manufacturer comes-out with a new-version of the toilet, and says that the flushing-mechanism and the flushing-lever are optional.
@@ClonesDream & @Zachary-C.-Sneddon:
I second that.
Just don't believe any HDMI Port anymor and use DP
I absolutely hate this. Even optional features annoy tf out of me. Frankly the only standard that is still alive and well is PCIe, cause if I ever see a PCIe 4.1 gen 2x2 Superspeed++ I'll be livid.
Don't give em any ideas 😂😂🤣
This is why people should look for cables being marketed to video professionals, since they will almost always have the relevant specs listed. Video professionals WILL return stuff that doesn't work with their gear and demand their money back. The downside is you have a whole other problem in the people pretending to market to "video professionals" when they're really just marketing to the overeager camcorder parent who fancies themselves more tech-literate than they really are.
Yes, this is a personal attack on you. ;)
The server market doesn't mess around, the SYS admins wouldn't fall for that crap, that's why they didn't try doing the confusion bs.
@@MiGujack3 also most sys admins are tech savvy they can detect the BS right there and call it out on the spot. And since most of that market is enterprise anyway they do not fuck around. They get exactly what they need (whatever meets the specifications), and have the wads of cash to throw.
What about display port?
I love the idea of ltt labs. Reliable unbiased third party "at a glance" specs and real world envelopes for operation would add massive value to a product for me. Many industries could use this approach to transparency
I've already encountered this problem with hdmi 2.1 cables. I had 3 , 2 of which didn't support full features including the needed bit rate for my target resolution to work
The Linus BS rating sounds like a great thing to have for consumers!
But it won’t carry any weight.
@I Am Perplexed Well, carry more weight than any other third party rating system that isn't totally bought out by some Chinese manufacturer ships shit because the system of coding everything is confusing and broken. Thus, they make money from people unable to even make an educated buying choice. And we end up with more E-Waste due to it.
It would be good unless companies like SSD manufacturers didn't change the spec and internals of their products without changing their names. No badges! Additional negative points for any unmarked product like a cable without a name, basic spec, part number and batch number printed directly on it! Also clear making of HDCP support etc, any optional features above basic spec should be clearly marked as available
@@Qardo Why would the average, world wide consumer, give any weight to a Canadian RUclipsr? A few million “followers” doesn’t mean shit to anybody except RUclipsrs
@@iamperplexed4695 others can check ltt's claims and if anything is wrong, you'll bet your ass he'll be called out
his tests do carry weight
So they made the reason they exist as a standard certification body irrelevant. If your certifications don’t properly differentiate between the different versions you are POINTLESS. HDMI standards body deserves to be crucified in the news and social media.
Exactly that, it's ridiculous!
I have an RX480 with HDMI 2.0, an LG C9 OLED TV with HDMI 2.0 or 2.1 and a ten meter "HDMI 2.1" cable connecting them in my living room.
So, can I have 4k 120Hz with Freesync on that TV?
Nope! _"4k60, no Freesync. Take it or leave it!"_
It's a freaking rip-off!
Unfortunately though I had no time to figure out why it doesn't work (and probably return the cable), because I just moved out of my parents home back then, so I had tons of other stuff to worry about and was beyond stressed out already, so the con worked...
@@LRM12o8 Your HDMI 2.1 cable is out of spec 10 meters is not approved. Max distance for HDMI 2.1 certified cable is 5m passive.
Throw in the USB guys too
@@SolarisUK the additional 5 meters where optional.
I remember being so pissed I had a USB-C connector on my laptop, which didn't support plugging a display to it. So angry.
Another fun example are budget motherboards of Gigabyte. They don't specify which audio chip is onboard, if it is
About a year ago I felt this pain very intently with USB 3 as I had to read the full description of multiple amazon listings to make sure I was getting the right capable equipment. It was such a pain in the rear to do that. This is just so dumb I don't understand why they are doing it.
I would LOVE an "LTT Approved" website where I know ill get a flawless product
Yes. I would 200% love a website for cables and all that get tested once in awhile to male sure they are still good
until they stealth change it without communicating it, like they do with SSDs
@@opodeldox just test 2 to 3 products (1 that you received, 1 or 2 that you bought) or ask someone that you know and bought it to send to you.
Unfortunately there's not way to ensure that since product interconnect as component and not one standardized unit. Why is it the the 707 hp RAM TRX can only go 112 mph? Because the off-road tires are the weak link.
@@jogui The problem is if in the first 4 months since release all products are good, but they'll swap components stealthily after that, when all reviews are already out. You can't solve this by purchasing more, all you van can do is having a bounty for new variants that pop up and have notes about this on the product page.
From this mess, the worst part, by far :: cables.
Monitors/TVs, normally, the companies like to announce the `most relevant` specs (max resolution, color depth, refresh rate, etc…) so that it is less of a burden…
But, cables, it is a complete mess, most cables are just advertised as HDMI 2.0, HDMI 2.1 and nothing else, and for sure, the most shabby of them, will do their best to say nothing else, regardless of how hard you search…
@@michalthekind ofcourse it works. Nobody said it doesn‘t but why would you want to connect your 4k 120hz display with only half the refresh rate? Even if you dont care for the extra 60hz you atleast need to be able to choose that yourself.now every cable manufacturer is just going to pretend their cables are capable of 120hz when they aren‘t and its technically not even a scam because the standard was fucked up.
@@michalthekind the industry is so fed up that the new consoles have in their manual to use the cable provided for "best experience"
my favorites are the charging bricks and headphones years ago that advertised, "certified for iPhone" etc. Sheesh.
@@michalthekind You are lying. You may be thinking of dp 1.4.
I've been looking for TVs and there seems to be some that claim to have HDMI 2.1 ports, but half of them are actually 2.0. It's not that simple, because the TVs themselves support 4K120hz and have the port for it, but not all ports will work. If you actually need more than two true 2.1 ports you might find yourself screwed by the TV after you buy it.
As an affiliate marketer and content marketer, I see LTT Labs being an honest and ethical affiliate goldmine that everyone involved in the process-from Linus, staff, right on down to visitors/buyers-can feel absolutely incredible about.
This is going to be phenomenal.
I now would like to see DisplayPort become the stranded and replace HDMI if they're going to do this stuff. 2.1 was the one thing that I knew to look for on stuff when I knew i needed something better.
Well, clearly, they should be held accountable for all the E-Waste they now want to create. After all, where do those wires go when someone ends up find out the cable they got and spend money out the nose for? It ends up in the trash or some bin and forgotten. Clearly, this is a major E-Waste issue that the manufacturers will refuse to acknowledge.
Wires are recycled for the metals lol.... don’t worry man we are already on top of this.
@Ty B Still doesn't change the fact they are doing this confusing naming system. which confuses more people in wasting money. Very anti-consumer. And let me tell you. Not all wires simply end up being "recycled". If that was the case, I would not be making the comment.
Recycling requires a lot more energy than simply making it new. A process that we need to do, but few companies ever want to it. They will make a but show of being for the Earth and shit. In reality. Not the case. If they do not see profit in it. They will do everything in their power in not recycling.
@@dm1972 It's wasted energy and resources. There is absolutely no need for it.
@@chlorhex6785 spot on
As a major tech enthusiast, I gave up on understanding the USB nonsense - they have done active damage to their brand and consumer trust!
Also, rather than doing a "this matches what they say" I would prefer a scammer company stamp (I know you would have to be careful not to get sued) because I have been burned so many times in so many areas by Dell that I just won't buy any Dell device new or second hand!
Yeah. I lost interest at "USB 3.1" and I'm a major techie.
This "HDMI 2.1" funny business is trashing my remaining interest in I/O.
USB-C 3.1 with alt-PD/DP++... or is it alt-DP+PD
I've only ever seen a worse naming scheme with Soviet cars.
luckily every single manufacturer that includes usb ports on their device does the sensible thing and calls usb 5gbps "usb 3.0" and usb 10gbps "usb 3.1"
@@GameCyborgCh why not just call it USB 5gigabit and 10gigabit tho, it's wayy easier and gets rid of all the nonsense
@@GameCyborgCh where have you seen this? I've only started seeing this more recently, most motherboards and laptops still say USB 2.0, USB 3.1 gen 1, USB 3.1 gen 2
So yes they seperate them, but I definitely haven't seen the whole speed label in spec sheets.
Thank you all so much for starting Labs! This is what the industry has needed for a long time - the ability to actually compare the specs that matter to the person making the purchasing decision. Tom's Hardware has done _some_ of this, but it's limited; having something more comprehensive and easily comparable is going to be a lifesaver for anyone looking to buy hardware.
Happy Holidays to everyone and the entire LTT team, thank you for your great work
I have a lot of hope in LTT and LTT Labs, the only thing that worries me is that companies send things to LTT Labs to evaluate them and they are versions of the same product that were made with better materials and / or components to "certify" a certain quality standard or show that if they meet a standard. And then sell the same product with different characteristics, worse materials and / or components that do not meet the standards or comply with what was evaluated in LTT Labs.
If that happens then LTT Labs will be good as nothing.
The only issue with a stamp is that products can be changed mid lifecycle and so no longer hold up to those minimums as we see with NVMes.
Yeah,
Opens them up to a lot of consumer hate if companies do dirty like they do on drives.
@@robertmace4501 If they specify which product run/year they tested this should not be a problem.
@@henkondemand And then manufacturers would refuse to allow them to test products.
The problem with even just a sticker saying they’re not lying about their specs is that people will see a sticker and assume it means quality.
Someone else in the comments suggested that we do the opposite and give a bad sticker to lying specs.
I like that idea.
@@smo7089 one opens them up to a greater chance of being sued, especially if a mistake or error is made. "Awards" are always safer.
@@smo7089 well that would require government enforcement because who would willingly put a “bad sticker” on their product and that leads to more issues. To what extent will the government be allowed to enforce this, on what products? Who does the government get their information about the products from? What about the companies with big lobbying money to manipulate those laws. All that is assuming it’s a physical sticker of course.
@@Sunnywastakentoo These stickers are just about LTT Labs
If the sticker had Linus' face on it, it will not be an assumption of quality.
I would love to see LTT Labs come to fruition, and I really love the idea of the better spec sheet! I also really love Luke's idea of the "it is what it says it is" stamp thing! Would love to see this happen and I would love to see an API or standard pop up for people to implement it in extensions, programs, etc. Thank you so much for doing what needs to be done!
In the UK Philips have ambilight TVs marked as hdmi 2.1 but the only feature supported is vrr, no 120hz or anything else.
Anyone in the home theater space already knows this, but ports, cables, and devices have always been and will always be about **FEATURES**, not standards. You *never, ever, ever* trust the version number on the box to tell you what a display, player, or AVR can do. You must always verify what features said device supports. I'm still using some old 1.4 Monoprice HDMI cables for "2.1" features like VRR.
I fell into this trap - I got the Samsung HW-Q800T that claimed to have HDMI 2.1, assuming I could passthrough 4K120. Well, it doesn't, it just does 4K60.
So I thought fine - my TV has 4K120 and HDMI 2.1, so I'll just use eARC.
Well, nope - TV has HDMI 2.1 with 40 instead of 48 Gbps, meaning I can't have 5.1.2 surround at 4k120.
Pain
@@Lucavon Brutal. I learned the hard way too. Bought a high end ($3,500, high end for me) Yamaha AVR a long time ago that had support for HDMI 1.4, thinking I could do 1080p120 passthrough. After relentless troubleshooting and back and forth with Yamaha tech support, they confirmed that they only support 1080p60 passthrough. Fortunately, I worked around the problem and it still handled audio as intended, but I felt like a sucker and it still stings me to this day.
I almost bought a newer 2.1 AVR when they promised FEATURE support for VRR, HDR, ALLM, etc., but I'm glad I waited since many of those AVRs ended up having odd quirks that broke full functionality. At this point, the only other feature I think I'm waiting for is 240Hz passthrough.
@@nathanddrews Oof, that's rough, they're abusing the specifications wherever they can to make the product sound better. I've noticed that quite a lot of things theoretically support something but practically, it's broken. I really hope the new LTT Labs will help us find hardware, especially AV hardware, that actually delivers on its promises and fulfills all of our needs.
@@Lucavon "supports" is corporate talk for "we've tested it on exactly one very specific hardware setup and we kinda got it to work without actually testing for everyday use"
@@nathanddrews Passthrough has gotta be the stupidest word of all of this. A passthrough is a direct connection. Just flip some switches and the signal bypasses the chips. If you send a 120hz signal and the chip can only handle 60hz then it's not a passthrough. The signal is being accepted or rejected based on conditions. A solid piece of wire can't accept or reject a signal. Solid copper is a passthrough. Their shit is literally failing the definition test of a word in a dictionary. It's something that's annoyed me to no end with that word.
As a person who works in IT and has been around computers my whole life - I gave up knowing anything about USB a while ago, it keeps changing, and getting more ludicrous. I just do a ton of google research on WTF anything is whenever I have to actually find stuff out at the time.
One thing I love about my job as an audio engineer is that we've used the same old XLR cable spec for over half a century now. It wasn't broken so nobody tried to fix it. Back in the 1950s some very smart people worked out the ideal cable design for microphones and nobody has been able to improve on it since. There are annoyances with cabling once you have digitized the signal and need to get it to a computer, but from the microphone to the preamp has been the same cable since basically forever!
(and no you don't need a super expensive XLR cable for your mic, any bog standard XLR will do, the advantage of getting the not-quite-cheapest cables is that they will last a bit longer, but the sound quality doesn't really follow the price with XLRs)
To be completely honest if FireWire was still a thing I bet most of the audio community would still use it. Even USB 2.0 was adequate for sending 32 channels of audio at 24-bit 48khz to and from a computer,.You can send hundreds of channels of audio down a Cat5 cable, but a typical recording session doesn't tend to use more than a few dozen mics. The Beatles did all but two of their records on 4-track tape I shouldn't need to record more than 32 simultaneous audio inputs.
It's might get crazier, I can envision that some cable will get a good review in LTT Labs so more people start buying that but manufacture will get the idea to sell a lower quality product with the same name to get more profit. That's all because companies aim to get more profits / to survive on market not to give the best value for users.
Nvidia avoiding the gaze of shame.
Samsung SSDs come to mind
Just hearing these changes to tech standards and your future plans to keep the tech accountable sounds exciting. I wouldnt be surprised if one day LMG just starts creating its own standard and certifying products. The future is now
Linus Cert Tips
If you have a consistent and thorough set of specs for nearly every product in a category, a lot of people will go to you first when shopping for new tech. That's quite an opportunity...
@Linus
Have you ever noticed that some DISPLAY PORT Jacks have no, one or two little plus signs next to them?
Displayport is doing this already.
Tech committees *need* to have word people and lawyers in their naming groups. This is ridiculous. Hell there should be a UN oversight committee for the huge widespread global-use stuff like HDMI and USB
I already thought the different bandwidth specs from HDMI 2.1 was stupid and now they go a step further...
Higher Number = Better
NOT
Higher Number = Could be better, worse, both or could eat your children
HDMI 69.420: perfection
This is why Thunderbolt bangs.
This is why I'm excited for labs! In my group of friends I'm the tech guy. I'm asked to help with everything from hooking up a TV to hardware/software diagnostics on a server at my friends work at a music production company. So the nitty gritty tech specs is my jam. So yeah I can't wait for labs to go live
I like the suggestion Luke made about giving products that live up to their claims a badge or something. Not a gold stamp of approval, but a designation showing that you guys have tested it and verified that what they advertise is true & accurate. An example would be along the lines of “LTT Verified” or something like that.
Having watched LTT since almost the very beginning, I can say with absolute certainty that I’d lean towards buying products that your team has tested & verified versus items that haven’t.
It was bad enough that USB-C ports on laptops were NOT equal now HDMI ports on said laptops are NOT going to be equal either it is already impossible to know the full feature set your USB-C ports support now its going to be impossible to know what feature set your HDMI port is going to bloody support.
That’s why Apple does the things it do.
@@Dave102693 I'm confused, because Apple doesn't even completely implement the thunderbolt standard. (Display chaining that is not just mirror)
Its up to the manufacture to show that.
@@krane15 and good luck getting them to do just that since most of them won't be doing it for the many SKUS they put out
I have lost hours finding out which display port version was send through the usb-c for getting the right docking station setup.
Don't fall for the pressure from big tech companies, avoid using HDMI. It is and always has been a "standard" associated with licensing fees and DRM, use DisplayPort instead whenever possible!
good luck with consoles
HDMI was founded and developed as a standard by the companies that make TVs and DVD/Blu-ray players. What's the interface that you think they exclusively put on their devices? Good luck finding a DisplayPort connection on standard audio/video equipment (outside desktop PCs).
DisplayPort also has HDCP.
Converting hdmi to dp carries hdcp over I’m pretty sure, but that might defeat the purpose
And the response from someine is gone be displayport does not carry sound uuu yes it does there has just not bin use for it as everything use hdmi tv consoles etc they all just need to switch to displayport
One of the problem with putting a stamp is the "small fonts" on the box or a manual such as "the performance may vary depends on...".
Its such a nostalgic feeling to see linus and luke sitting together talking tech. Reminds me of the smaller lmg office days
Aren't these standards organizations owned by the the manufacturers? That seems to be a significant conflict of interest. Short term they will be swindling their customers. Long term they will be hurting the USB/HDMI 'brand'. BTW love the idea of LTT Labs but disappointed its necessary.
No problem, when the USB/HDMI 'brand' is destroyed to trash. They will create a new better one (which initially doesn't have complicated things, to fuel its growth)
And then rinse n repeat
I dont think that most people are aware that hdmi and usb are brands
How would it be a conflict of interest. The companies sat together and decided to create those standards, they developed them. Who else is supposed to create the standards than the companies adopting them?
@@shre6619 I Can’t Believe It’s Not HDMI™️
We have enough to worry about in the tech marketplace right now. We could do without standards orgs becoming marketing orgs (and bad ones at that).
This is why you stick to DisplayPort for PC displays. Not sure what to do for TVs though other than to check the specsheet.
This LTT labs works great until manufacturers (especially SSD people) causally swap out components after launch to give consumers cheaper worse products than what all the reviews say so.
There should be a No Bullshit Seal of Approval that's trademarked and companies have to apply for to legally include in their packaging and marketing. It should cover everything from bleeding edge tech products all the way down to bars of soap that are *actually close to the size of the box they come in*.
It wouldn't mean anything unless its standardized, and nobody's ever going to do that.
@@krane15 The organization that owns the trademark either allows its use or it doesn't. Boom. Standardized.
LTT labs is going to be such a game changer
Luke's idea for a seal of approval thing is great. It would really allow for people to spot trends in brands that often fairly or unfairly represent their product.
Because of the problem with USB, for our office laptops, we just ignore the USB 3 branding and instead require at least one Thunderbolt USB-C port. (Or theoretically USB 4, but I haven't seen that on any of our devices yet.)
1000% yes to the independent data sheets, please and thank you! I've long been frustrated by the lack of this exact thing and if anyone can do it well it's LMG ❤️
I love how UNIVERSAL serial bus has so many optional features your best bet is praying before trying to connect something to anything
Technically, the serial bus is still required and works well.
USB 3 actually uses a switched architecture, not a bus, because of the requirements of high speed signalling.
USB 1, 1.1, and 2 use a bus. Support for USB 2 is required for anything certified as USB 3.
However, it is actually possible to run USB 3 without the USB 2 wires. USB-IF would never certify it for consumers, but it is allowed if you just need to connect a USB WiFi chip built into a motherboard or something.
At that point it is up to the manufacturer of the motherboard to make sure it works.
Also, ltt can create an specification database for a variety of devices and connect it to an api and let developers use it (hopefully for free or a small feed)
Don't know about that but I want more banners on the screen . I miss that from cable TV. Thanks for bringing back something I miss so much
Have a tin level award for 'It does exactly what it says on the tin'
Just wanted to say thank you for helping ensure we don't get scammed by these shady products and manufacturers. LTT Labs sounds like such a good idea!
Till they get too big and start doing the same thing 🤣
I'm so here for that lab. Best of luck to you guys, it's a really great idea and really ambitious. I know I'll watch every video from the lab, even for shit I have no plan on buying. I just love data and experimenting :D
I remember the era before HDMI we had composite, component, S-Video, Rf some of them have audio some of them didn't then there was which one was better which one was worse in order of connection which one do you want to choose which ones have audio which ones don't then how do you connect the audio cuz then there was RCA left and right audio, optical audio, coaxial audio. Then we got HDMI one connector with everything. Then we got copy protection and all sorts of nightmares that plagued video issues since. About once a year I run into somebody who wants to connect something to something else and they insisted they know how to do it. And now we have USB C which is a great connector but now has everybody thinking that all the other connectors are the same so not only do we have device manufacturers that we're not doing the proper implementation of the USB specification and putting in a port on their device meant to be hooked up to a host computer and then you have somebody running around thinking that they can just plug their thumb drive in or vice versa and wonder why the drive isn't showing up on their sewing machine that's meant to plug into their computer.
Frankly, I'm now just waiting for LTT Labs to start pumping out this info so I know what to get in the future.
I like the idea of a "Certification Stamp" more than an Award. Lukes idea was a good one IMO.
If you add a compare feature to that updated spec sheet, I'm reckoning you might become the most visited website on the tech world, no more using the comparison website on 1 tab and the actual detailed spec sheets on manufacturer website on the other 2-3-4-5 tabs to actually get details of what the comparison site might be missing, etc... main challenge will likely be getting the sheer volume of products to test across all categories, but looking forward to see what comes of it! Thanks for trying to fix the world!
So far I've been using RTINGS whenever I want to look up actual details and specs instead of marketing about monitors or headphones and stuff like that, I'm curious to see how Labs will compare to them, or if there would be any way to share data that is already obtained
Monitor marketing teams must be sweating thinking about how all their bullshit is going to be exposed, and I do mean 100% of it.
The only issue with giving a product a "Good Job" title, is the marketing department of the product in question will take it and run. Soon you'll have product's with the "Good Job" ribbon on the box like it's the Congressional Medal of Honor.
Someone needs to remind manufacturers about what "standards" are.
You need an "LTT Labs Certified" to show that the manufacturer has correctly communicated the capabilities of their product.
OMG that LTT spec sheet idea sounds AMAZING, good luck!
As someone who works in sales at PC retail this shit feels so frustrating. I cant wait for LTT Labs to go online, i think it will be really helpful.
We reallly do need LTT Labs. That and GN's fan testing stuff.
I read this as LTT Labels and saw an HDMI cable thought this would be a great idea to really help consumers if they could actually create a LTT labeling system that manufacturers could apply for after LTT labs test and confirm spec on the cables. So that consumers could easily identify what spec of cable they are buying. Or do the QR code idea HDMI cables had for a bit that listed the exact cable spec with LTT approved somewhere in the QR code. I know not an easy thing to implement but I think it should be a goal that would make LTT labs so much more helpful then it already will be.
When you get to testing you should see if the oculus link cable is really that different that it’s worth the cost of if other cables that aren’t fiber are comparable and work just as well
"As advertised" could be one of many ratings used to rate the product page
Why not call it USB 3 Gen 1/Gen 2/Gen 3 and drop the .1/.2 nonsense?
This was my thoughts, no one knows what those micro increments mean anyways
That would make too much sense
That makes it too hard to confuse customers. They have Gen 1, Gen 2 and then Gen2x2 (2 by 2).
Or do it the other way and make every new generation a new decimal. Gen 3 is 3.3 This should not be hard.
Then how would scammers sell the same old s*it re-branded as something new and shiny? Both USB and HDMI are doing this for the sole purpose of enabling scammers, there is no other feasible explanation for these retroactive naming changes.
Please have a good search and comparison tool for labs's spec sheets!
Labs is a really great idea actually. Great thinking. with the level of trust you guys have in the space you could theoretically be setting new industry standards by testing the old and proving that it’s not true. Pushing companies to ACTUALLY innovate to earn the LTT seal of approval. Truly room to innovate the way business is done in the tech industry.
All I ask is for a: Does not meet spec as claimed, meets spec as claimed, and exceeds spec as claimed. Adding any sort of fluff beyond that just muddies the waters.
So "flaming paper bag on doorstep", "a-okay", and "Thumbs up" stamps?
I cant believe companies acutally pay for HDMI when they cant even get their standards and naming right.
In addition to a rating about the honesty of how companies describe their individual products, I would like to see perhaps a weighted average (more recent weighted heavier) of all products by company and perhaps by product category. I'm thinking of a scenario where perhaps I'm looking at a product that hasn't been covered yet but other products they make have been. If they have tended towards inaccuracy in the past, they probably are now and vice versa. Just make sure it's clear how things are calculated and focus on accuracy rather than honesty to minimize litigation.
I like the end with their idea about putting a stamp on a product for manufacturer transparency on their products. That's a really good idea, I would really like to know which companies are transparent in their marketing or just full of it
Fairly sure in the UK this wouldn't pass the standard for advertising honesty, but who's going to do the class action?
HDMI 2.1 is such a big deal I think it should've just be called HDMI 3.0 from the start
I LOVE that you're doing the Labs thing to help this mess be easier to navigate.
It was so easy to find a replacement USB C cable for my portable monitor by simply looking up USB C 10 gigabit. 10 gig USB C simply because it was able to cut out the lesser cables that only do C to C USB 2.0 that don't carry the HDMI signals.
Usually it is good practice to not attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. However, much like the USB naming debacle, this would require incompetence of such colossal magnitude I think we should all operate under the understanding that these retroactive naming changes are done for the express purpose of enabling scammers taking advantage of consumers. If only there was a competitor I could vote for with my wallet.
"Incompetence of such colossal magnitude" I need that on my t-shirt
Oh god, I just went through the whole cable thing with my parents and their new surround reciever. It's bad enough that half the cables they bought, or already had didn't have clear generation lables but instead use high speed, ultra high speed, etc. Now even the ones that specifically say 2.1 will be unclear.
The cables are different than the ports since the number indicates the maximum capability. That designation on the device, however, is only theoretical since there no way to tell what you're getting. Take USB C for example, its capable of up to 100 watts, but very few manufactures configure it that way.
What you can do is colour code your spec attributes. E.g., iron for anything that matches, and red (or something) for anything that you had to relabel/rebadge.
I had fun having to use the walmart app to find out the specs for their ONN series of HDMI cables. In store it just says HDMI, doesn't state resolution, which gen of hdmi, etc. So fun.
Im glad I order 90% of any wires i buy so i can always find the specifics i need. Only had to step into walmart for the cable because I found a 55" 4k chroma 4:4:4 smart tv for $75 locally and wanted to mount it the same day lol
There should be a law against this
Sounds like Usb3.0. no longer exists
As someone who was in similar situation, if you do this with Labs it will help so much people. When I was looking for a laptop, I ended up with 1660 instead of 2060 GPU because they had same performance but 2060 couldn't push more because of cooling and I saved money and bought one more SSD and overall got better laptop (can't remember the name of the channel that had those kind of tests)
A no-bs specification stamp. And if DisplayPort goes that way it's time to go to SDI or HDBastT.
This was done to allow manufacturers to sell products at a older, less capable components while avoiding telling the consumers problems but let's not forget, this is all run by the manufacturers so this is not worth it.
These confusing naming conventions are clearly intentional, specficially to confuse consumers so electronics companies can keep selling their old tech by sticking a new name on it (so consumers don't pass over this older tech).
I love the idea of the stamp that certifies that the product does what they advertised it to. I feel like that would immensely help stop the gray area false advertising practices that technically aren't illegal. And the best part is it would a private entity doing it and not the government!
8:35 - I think the reason to do that is ultra smooth video streaming/viewing. 120hz is great on a web-puter! PAL, NTSC - doesn't matter, plays silky smooth.
I'm in favor of a BS-rating 👍
I'm surprised they aren't being sued for this, it's hella misleading to customers.
LTTL stamp (or grade) is a fantastic idea. Like a UL stamp but like actually useful
Even you knew all the naming scheme, it is still hard to search and purchase compatible devices, because the names are so similar (and fuzzy search).