Played the open beta on the S90C with HDR10+ enabled and the game reminds me a lot of Destiny with updated graphics. Looking forward to the full release.
True but you have to Google what values the game is using. Whether the game is HGIG native or a fixed nits value and then decide if you need tone mapping or hgig.@@DeesBees85
Very excited for HDR10+ Gaming BUT I was also exited for Dolby Vision Gaming and there is literally just ONE Game on the Xbox which supports Dolby Vision natively.
You should have let him answer for bright outdoor sun too. I wanted to know what his answer was. FOMO and Brian are starting to say that OLEDs are as bright as QLEDs now but how come everyone also says oh bright sunlight, you need to still go QLED? I dont understand.
Not as it requires a dedicated GPU and only a discrete graphics card like the 16xx and above can handle it. AMD is in the process of validating for use in HDR10+ Gaming but again, only for PC GPU. Maybe next gen XBox and PS6?
There should be no technical reason preventing them from adding support for PlayStation 5 and Xbox series x, I guess they prioritized PC, once it's up and running on AMD hardware, then hopefully no later than sometime next year for consoles? Wishful thinking.
FOMO, your intro was very funny :) Does the new approach to PC HDR gaming mean that on existing TV's we will see an improvement on image quality with our current sets over how HDR currently looks? I ask this because my experience with HDR enabled has been that playing a game with HDR on degrades the image quality in certain areas compared to HDR being off. So rather than the experience being a " HDR is clearly way better" I spend time weighing up the pro's n con's of running a game with HDR turned on or off I have spent some time with trying to see if it is a windows 10 problem, or TV problem etc and have pretty much come to the conclusion that the TV I am currently using (A Samsung NEO QLED Q90B) doesn't have enough HDR brightness and other processing power/ hardware capabilities to make the picture as it's meant to look. Running in HDR seems to make compromises.
Black levels will always be raised on LCD panels no matter what because they use a backlight. No amount of local dimming zones on LED LCD or Mini LED LCD TV's or monitors can ever compete with the 1:1 pixel level dimming that OLED and Micro LED displays provide.
so many unanswered questions.... does it still work if the game doesn't support it? , can you enable hgig and hdr10+ at the same time and how does it affect the color? , what's the difference between hdr10+ Basic and hdr10+ advanced because there's to options two pick.....
Thanks FOMO!!! Good interview I was curious about the standard. So next question Does Samsung TVs have all HDMI 2.1 ports? As I’m looking maybe to Upgrade my LG CX to either G3 or Sony A95 L???
Of course it's better than hgig. I love dolby vision but hdr10+ gaming has me considering other options when I get a TV next year. I'm a PC gamer. But it depends how well it does. Especially when devs think they can release games in 2023 without HDR at all(starfield)
I just want open standards and open software, things that can be used by anyone. HDR gaming on PC is awful. There's little support, one of the only things that helps us is using additional software (or mods) like SpecialK to "convert" SDR to HDR. Count me in if HDR10+ can be modded into games (It probably will, given that there's already a plugin for Unreal Engine).
@marrow94 I literally burst out laughing, putting PS5 in the same sentence as PC. We have reshade and hdr mods. PS5 doesn't have anything but simple brightness settings. Their controller is amazing for pc gaming though.
If anyone care to help. Would be more than appreciated. So I have the new Samsung. Neoqled Gen 2 launched this year. IN GAME EXPERT I HAVE TWO OPTION HDR10+ and HDR(hgig) Both with options: off, basic and advanced. Ca anyone please which is better to set on my ps5 for gaming. I want the best image that express the more clarity and close to reality. Should I turn on the hdr10+ or the normal or the normal hdr? Which what gives the best balance in games? Peace and Love
Is it cut back like DV game modes? Does it increase input lag like DV game mode? Guess it would be the game engine and how fast it can process the tone mapping.
How is it better? Because it offloads the HDR processing to the GPU? Who does this benefit? Every other set supports Dolby Vision, you just need to use the settings listed in the TV's Manual. Asking other Manufacturers to support a fringe format is a terrible idea. Samsung used to argue that Dolby Vision required specific hardware for support, and that HDR 10 and HDR 10+ didn't need anything other than the performance of the monitor. Not buying the hype.
Quite simply the TV SOC cannot handle dynamic tone mapping at 120FPS this is why DV Gaming cannot work unless it's converted to static metadata which means it's more like HDR10 gaming. True dynamic tone mapping requires the TV, GPU and Game engine to talk - currently, only the TV and software talk which means the TV hardware does all the work which means higher latency if you want better tone mapping with HDR games. HGiG requires the TV do all the work and it has no way to enforce best practices among TV makers and game developers.
From Google Search. "Yes, HDMI 2.1 supports Dolby Vision gaming at 120fps. HDMI 2.1 cables can handle up to 120 Hz when using 4K resolution. However, your monitor or TV still has to support these resolutions and refresh rates for them to work." Doesn't DV require it's own SOC to decode Dolby vision, thus doing the work? @@stopthefomo
On my Samsung QN95B I use HDR 10+ at Basic and Game HDR HGIG off HGIG on Samsung TV is broken HDR 10+ at Basic is the most accurate both doing tone mapping I wish Samsung just replicate exactly the same AMOLED Screen on S23 ultra just replicate S23 ultra Screen on TV Screen. Is that difficult?
It’s basically a amoled display with out the downside both use true RGB! Active matrix oled isn’t better at all actually gets burn in faster and I don’t think there’s a quantum dot film
@NexGenTek quantum dot OLED on the S series is potentially better than the AMOLED I meant removing the processing and the tone mapping I want Samsung display without processing exactly as AMOLED screens on the S23 ultra about burn in I have LG C9 for gaming no burn in since 2019 I am not afraid from burn in
@NexGenTek I don't mind any of that, to be honest in game mode. I disable everything do you get that on Samsung's smartphone? no I want whatever processing or without processing I want Samsung to replicate whatever they have done on S23 ultra but in a TV
@leo7onfire on console PS5 and XBOX SERIES X Basic vs Advanced there's no differences, maybe on PC you may get some differences so far I haven't seen any differences in all three of them anyway, I recommend in game mode on QN95B HDR color 25 sharpness 0 contrast enhancer off warm 2 ST.2084 gamma -3 color gamut auto HDR 10+ gaming Basic Game HDR (HGIG) off very important on console level 2000 nits 20 clicks and black window 0 these are the most accurate settings, the most accurate settings without calibration
I say creators intent doesn't matter yet because they don't have access to the full range of color the human eye can see and the result is everything looking washed out over time.
That's meaningless. You can make things look a certain way without having full access to full spectrum. And there are even ways to actually make things that way. We can make movies that years later can be adjusted to not-yet-released displays with ACES. Cameras usually capture more than what any display can show.
I just bought S90C 65in which is manufactured in September so hopefully I got Gen2 panel... I hope my TV supports HDR10+ Gaming.. I already own rtx 4090 and for specially 144hz gaming I bought the TV
Interesting to see. Dolby Vision Gaming didn't not bring anything so far and you need a licensed device. On the contrary HDR10+ is not very common for video content but Dolby Vision is.
Yeah but for many years HDR 10+ for movies was also kinda exclusive to Samsung so you had to buy a Samsung too... Hope this time when HDR10+ gaming comes out all the other TV brands with HDR10+ also get it at same time. Dolby Vision gaming probably could have been a huge thing but I think it wasn't much supported and was mostly on Xbox, at least I don't even remember any PC game advertising HDR Dolby Vision sadly...
@@guily6669Mass Effect Andromeda advertised Dolby Vision support on PC. I believe Battlefield One on PC also advertised it. I think there was a 3rd PC game with Dolby Vision but I forgot the name.
Oh it's coming, this an emerging format on PC with a bright future. GPUs just started supporting it last year and we are already beginning to see titles roll out with it.
The HDR10+ Gaming standard is free and working hard with game developers to help them incorporate it. HGiG has no development team or customer service team or enforcement team to make sure everybody is on the same page while Dolby Vision Gaming is not applying dynamic tone mapping to gaming due to TV latency (dynamic tone mapping at 120FPS is not possible on a TV). HDR10+ Gaming offloads this process on to the PC's GPU which is literally designed for tone mapping graphics. Until Dolby Vision Gaming does something similar, you'll never see 4K120 with dynamic tone mapping using DV - static tone mapping like HDR10 or HGiG yes, but not DYNAMIC
Awesome video Fomo. You and Brian have become legends of the tv world. This is very interesting as Im stuck between LG and Samsung right now but LG G3 hasnt got hdr 10 plus.
Not a chance in hell I'm buying another samsung TV to benefit from hdr10+ gaming, they never support and update their current tvs unlike lg, sony and Panasonic
Dolby vision gaming really proved u dont really need the meta data in HDR gaming. Gaming isnt doing like movies , switching to different scenes constantly so its not needed for gaming.
Not exactly, the both of them use dynamic Metadata, but the dynamic Metadata is generated differently. DV use a different colorspace on BD and streaming. And many other things.
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Who's going to play First Descendant to try out HDR10+ Gaming?
On Steam bit.ly/3QemEFk
Nexon official site: tfd.nexon.com/en/main
Played the open beta on the S90C with HDR10+ enabled and the game reminds me a lot of Destiny with updated graphics. Looking forward to the full release.
You have to admit HDR gaming is a clusterfuck at the moment. Every game has different settings and they don't clearly label the nits.
On PS5 and Xbox it’s pretty reliable these days. I’ve got an LG C2 and it’s rare to see a game that doesn’t look good in HDR.
True but you have to Google what values the game is using. Whether the game is HGIG native or a fixed nits value and then decide if you need tone mapping or hgig.@@DeesBees85
What settings are you using? Hgig?@@DeesBees85
@@SilverBld I just followed the set up guide by the hdtest RUclips channel
Very excited for HDR10+ Gaming BUT I was also exited for Dolby Vision Gaming and there is literally just ONE Game on the Xbox which supports Dolby Vision natively.
What game?
@@bruhWTH43It should be halo?
What's stopping AMD cards being HDR10+ certified, is it a software or a hardware issue?
As usual, amd sucks
You should have let him answer for bright outdoor sun too. I wanted to know what his answer was. FOMO and Brian are starting to say that OLEDs are as bright as QLEDs now but how come everyone also says oh bright sunlight, you need to still go QLED? I dont understand.
No support on the PS5 or Series X?
Not as it requires a dedicated GPU and only a discrete graphics card like the 16xx and above can handle it. AMD is in the process of validating for use in HDR10+ Gaming but again, only for PC GPU. Maybe next gen XBox and PS6?
@@stopthefomonot laptop gpu?
There should be no technical reason preventing them from adding support for PlayStation 5 and Xbox series x, I guess they prioritized PC, once it's up and running on AMD hardware, then hopefully no later than sometime next year for consoles? Wishful thinking.
Do we have a list of upcoming games that support HDR10+ Gaming?
There are definitely more games in the pipeline we just can't share them at this time - likely CES 2024 should have a list!
Rn there's cyberpunk and mw3 so far
FOMO, your intro was very funny :)
Does the new approach to PC HDR gaming mean that on existing TV's we will see an improvement on image quality with our current sets over how HDR currently looks?
I ask this because my experience with HDR enabled has been that playing a game with HDR on degrades the image quality in certain areas compared to HDR being off.
So rather than the experience being a " HDR is clearly way better" I spend time weighing up the pro's n con's of running a game with HDR turned on or off
I have spent some time with trying to see if it is a windows 10 problem, or TV problem etc and have pretty much come to the conclusion that the TV I am currently using (A Samsung NEO QLED Q90B) doesn't have enough HDR brightness and other processing power/ hardware capabilities to make the picture as it's meant to look.
Running in HDR seems to make compromises.
review end People don't understand Samsung Note support not HDR Dolby vision only support Samsung bullshit nothing zero 🌑🙃😡
I'm studying to het a Phd on HDR settings, I hope HDR10+ also means no black level raised with ugly color filters allowed
Black levels will always be raised on LCD panels no matter what because they use a backlight.
No amount of local dimming zones on LED LCD or Mini LED LCD TV's or monitors can ever compete with the 1:1 pixel level dimming that OLED and Micro LED displays provide.
so many unanswered questions.... does it still work if the game doesn't support it? , can you enable hgig and hdr10+ at the same time and how does it affect the color? , what's the difference between hdr10+ Basic and hdr10+ advanced because there's to options two pick.....
Great interview Fomo
Thanks for the outstanding coverage here! You and Brian have been killing it this year.
Thanks FOMO!!! Good interview I was curious about the standard. So next question Does Samsung TVs have all HDMI 2.1 ports?
As I’m looking maybe to Upgrade my LG CX to either G3 or Sony A95 L???
Yes but One Connect Box is limited to 40Gpbs but this is not a big deal IMO.
Of course it's better than hgig. I love dolby vision but hdr10+ gaming has me considering other options when I get a TV next year. I'm a PC gamer. But it depends how well it does. Especially when devs think they can release games in 2023 without HDR at all(starfield)
How about fixing the one connect box for 2024 , no black outs .
YES I agree! And while we're at it, we need to fix 144Hz mode no black outs
I just want open standards and open software, things that can be used by anyone. HDR gaming on PC is awful.
There's little support, one of the only things that helps us is using additional software (or mods) like SpecialK to "convert" SDR to HDR.
Count me in if HDR10+ can be modded into games (It probably will, given that there's already a plugin for Unreal Engine).
Yeah, the solution is to just play on PS5 instead of PC.
@marrow94 I literally burst out laughing, putting PS5 in the same sentence as PC. We have reshade and hdr mods. PS5 doesn't have anything but simple brightness settings. Their controller is amazing for pc gaming though.
Which one do I buy samsung QN90c or sony x90l 65 inch?
If anyone care to help. Would be more than appreciated.
So I have the new Samsung. Neoqled Gen 2 launched this year.
IN GAME EXPERT I HAVE TWO OPTION HDR10+ and HDR(hgig) Both with options: off, basic and advanced.
Ca anyone please which is better to set on my ps5 for gaming.
I want the best image that express the more clarity and close to reality.
Should I turn on the hdr10+ or the normal or the normal hdr? Which what gives the best balance in games?
Peace and Love
Is it cut back like DV game modes?
Does it increase input lag like DV game mode? Guess it would be the game engine and how fast it can process the tone mapping.
Guessing no since he said it's less processing then without it and Dolby yea isn't worth the added input lag
@rahb2096 up to the game engine, so depends if the game engine is fast at it or not.
How is it better? Because it offloads the HDR processing to the GPU? Who does this benefit? Every other set supports Dolby Vision, you just need to use the settings listed in the TV's Manual. Asking other Manufacturers to support a fringe format is a terrible idea. Samsung used to argue that Dolby Vision required specific hardware for support, and that HDR 10 and HDR 10+ didn't need anything other than the performance of the monitor. Not buying the hype.
My guess is that may be less of a hit on input lag.
Quite simply the TV SOC cannot handle dynamic tone mapping at 120FPS this is why DV Gaming cannot work unless it's converted to static metadata which means it's more like HDR10 gaming. True dynamic tone mapping requires the TV, GPU and Game engine to talk - currently, only the TV and software talk which means the TV hardware does all the work which means higher latency if you want better tone mapping with HDR games. HGiG requires the TV do all the work and it has no way to enforce best practices among TV makers and game developers.
From Google Search. "Yes, HDMI 2.1 supports Dolby Vision gaming at 120fps. HDMI 2.1 cables can handle up to 120 Hz when using 4K resolution. However, your monitor or TV still has to support these resolutions and refresh rates for them to work."
Doesn't DV require it's own SOC to decode Dolby vision, thus doing the work?
@@stopthefomo
Yeah we’ll stick with Dolby Vision bud. And HGIG Mode. Respectfully it’s superior.🍺
Respectfully it’s not! It’s just static meta data but to each there own!
I commend your devotion to Dolby Vision. 🤣
@@NexGenTek not in halo Infinite
@@junior-OG Didn’t halo infinite have terrible hdr fake Dolby hdtv test did a video on it!
dolby vision isn't static metadata.@@NexGenTek
thanks for the amazing coverage about the knowledge and ideology behind HDR gaming , very few creator do that now.
FOMO Does the S95C have HGIG and if so, does it work well?
On my Samsung QN95B I use HDR 10+ at Basic and Game HDR HGIG off
HGIG on Samsung TV is broken
HDR 10+ at Basic is the most accurate
both doing tone mapping
I wish Samsung just replicate exactly the same AMOLED Screen on S23 ultra
just replicate S23 ultra Screen on TV Screen. Is that difficult?
It’s basically a amoled display with out the downside both use true RGB! Active matrix oled isn’t better at all actually gets burn in faster and I don’t think there’s a quantum dot film
@NexGenTek quantum dot OLED on the S series is potentially better than the AMOLED
I meant removing the processing and the tone mapping
I want Samsung display without processing exactly as AMOLED screens on the S23 ultra
about burn in I have LG C9 for gaming no burn in since 2019
I am not afraid from burn in
@@othman0077 Without processing you’ll get banding and artifacts with no upscaling! You don’t want that!
@NexGenTek I don't mind any of that, to be honest in game mode. I disable everything
do you get that on Samsung's smartphone? no
I want whatever processing or without processing
I want Samsung to replicate whatever they have done on S23 ultra but in a TV
@leo7onfire on console PS5 and XBOX SERIES X
Basic vs Advanced there's no differences, maybe on PC you may get some differences so far I haven't seen any differences in all three of them
anyway, I recommend in game mode on QN95B HDR
color 25
sharpness 0
contrast enhancer off
warm 2
ST.2084 gamma -3
color gamut auto
HDR 10+ gaming Basic
Game HDR (HGIG) off
very important
on console level 2000 nits 20 clicks and black window 0
these are the most accurate settings, the most accurate settings without calibration
Hey buddy you sure get around 😊
Great video. professional quality and also some humor. Thank you Fomo
This is all very good but for one thing ps5 and Xbox don’t support HDR 10 plus.
I say creators intent doesn't matter yet because they don't have access to the full range of color the human eye can see and the result is everything looking washed out over time.
That's meaningless. You can make things look a certain way without having full access to full spectrum.
And there are even ways to actually make things that way. We can make movies that years later can be adjusted to not-yet-released displays with ACES. Cameras usually capture more than what any display can show.
What about the Samsung OLEDs? Do they support this?
YES
does this need an update for the 2022 TVs to work?
Nah games need to update
I just bought S90C 65in which is manufactured in September so hopefully I got Gen2 panel...
I hope my TV supports HDR10+ Gaming.. I already own rtx 4090 and for specially 144hz gaming I bought the TV
It does support HDR10+
jesus look at the banding on that TV behind them. great showcase for samsung lol.
Does Samsung Q90C have HDR10+?
yes
Interesting to see. Dolby Vision Gaming didn't not bring anything so far and you need a licensed device. On the contrary HDR10+ is not very common for video content but Dolby Vision is.
Yeah but for many years HDR 10+ for movies was also kinda exclusive to Samsung so you had to buy a Samsung too...
Hope this time when HDR10+ gaming comes out all the other TV brands with HDR10+ also get it at same time.
Dolby Vision gaming probably could have been a huge thing but I think it wasn't much supported and was mostly on Xbox, at least I don't even remember any PC game advertising HDR Dolby Vision sadly...
@@guily6669 I agree to all. We need a universal hassle free solution.
@@guily6669Mass Effect Andromeda advertised Dolby Vision support on PC.
I believe Battlefield One on PC also advertised it.
I think there was a 3rd PC game with Dolby Vision but I forgot the name.
AMD truly does not support HDR10+ Gaming?
Yes it is better, that is exactly why it is everywhere.... oh wait...
Oh it's coming, this an emerging format on PC with a bright future. GPUs just started supporting it last year and we are already beginning to see titles roll out with it.
The same was said about ray tracing. Future tech will be normalized before you know it.
The HDR10+ Gaming standard is free and working hard with game developers to help them incorporate it. HGiG has no development team or customer service team or enforcement team to make sure everybody is on the same page while Dolby Vision Gaming is not applying dynamic tone mapping to gaming due to TV latency (dynamic tone mapping at 120FPS is not possible on a TV). HDR10+ Gaming offloads this process on to the PC's GPU which is literally designed for tone mapping graphics. Until Dolby Vision Gaming does something similar, you'll never see 4K120 with dynamic tone mapping using DV - static tone mapping like HDR10 or HGiG yes, but not DYNAMIC
Nvidia and apple are both gonna be pushing it heavy 😂
FOMO does the S95C have HDR10+ gaming?
YEP, AS WELL THE S90C
Fomo never stops getting better.
I agree.
what "about amd freesync premium pro hdr"? can i know what features does it lack compared to "hdr10+ gaming"?
Awesome video Fomo. You and Brian have become legends of the tv world. This is very interesting as Im stuck between LG and Samsung right now but LG G3 hasnt got hdr 10 plus.
No offense to creaters but idc about creaters intent.
Not a chance in hell I'm buying another samsung TV to benefit from hdr10+ gaming, they never support and update their current tvs unlike lg, sony and Panasonic
QN90B you heard it straight from the horse's mouth
Having way too much fun!!
I can see Brian getting a bit jealous on the East Coast. And he’s a big guy!
Hey FOMO😊
DV --> HDR10
Dolby vision adds input lag so no I'll take hdr10 over it and definitely hdr10+
Nice...!
Dolby vision gaming really proved u dont really need the meta data in HDR gaming. Gaming isnt doing like movies , switching to different scenes constantly so its not needed for gaming.
It's not about whether HDR is needed for gaming.
It's about making the effort to implement HDR to FIT video games well.
HDR10+ is nothing more than Samsung version of Dolby Vision. This is a pure promo for Samsung. How much was FOMO paid???😊
He’s just giving information on the gaming aspect. It’s a subject that has had limited info. What’s wrong with informing us?
That is simply not true. This standard right now is for PC gaming where Dolby Vision gaming doesn't exist. NVidia and AMD support this standard.
So WHAT if he is PAID ??? HE IS THE BEST and i love watching his videos
@leo7onfireSame on S95C it will look amazing
Not exactly, the both of them use dynamic Metadata, but the dynamic Metadata is generated differently. DV use a different colorspace on BD and streaming. And many other things.
HDR+ is junk, stop being cheap and paid for DV to be added into your TVs. otherwise no point in buying them.
What's that??
Dolby vision
Is it true samsung are shit?
Don’t game
i only play one game lol
Do game