Looks good! The guys on reddit already explained why you should chamfer your holes before the finish operation, so I'll just leave you with one tip: You should only use three pins to locate your part. Two on the long side, one on the short side. Three points of contact is more reliable and more repeatable than four.
We love we use mini pallet hole pattern plates never get tired of watching another one be made even when our favorite of in steel and blanchard ground it really makes no difference wear usage time whatever. Fly cut it well on a balanced machine and away we go. The music helps us enjoy the varied pattern dowel thread dowel thread. Thank you glad we found this channel.
Maybe I'm missing something, but why call it a "manual" mill, when at 1:36, you show us the CNC programme that's controlling it? Do you mean something else when you say "manual"?
As a new subscriber, and from TX,, making the pallet on fast foreword reminded me when I could still do the "TX Two Step",,,hehe,,,Really cool,,,thx,,Bear.
I've made a lot of sub plates like this where I... 1) drill & tap all the holes, 2) then come back and ream the holes the minor diameter size so you can use a dowel pin or drill blank in any or all of the holes.
+Chris DePrisco In my experience you can never have enough holes to use on a fixture plate. When making bigger plates for a CNC mill I generally make all the holes blind 1/2-13. I make all the holes blind so they don't effect the table underneath but then they can all fill up w/ coolant... so I counter bore them all 5/8 diameter & use a 1/2-13 button head screw that i modify the head on to plug them all. This has worked very well for me over the years.
I think my next plate will be somewhat like that but will use sub-plates with different hole patterns/sizes for different things. Like one plate with 1/2-13 threads for the Mitee-bite clamps, one with smaller more close holes for smaller work, etc. Maybe even make a sub-plate for the vice so I can move it around easily. Also next time; steel. :)
+Chris DePrisco You can also put smaller holes (10-32) in between the bigger holes. I've always had a saying, "you can put small parts in a big machine but you can't put big parts in a small machine". Just sayin.
Question. When I face over the top, moving back reveals that clearance is tighter at the end and loosened up at the beginning of the pass. Why is that ? Everything seems tight. Very noticable with large stock. I would go over from left to right and then left becomes lower when I crank it back.
You could make each hole do double duty as a locating hole and retainer. Take a 12-24 bolt for instance, the tap drill size is .177, if you substitute a .1875 reamed hole, the tap will cut ~50% threads, leaving a flat at the tip of the crest, to locate the dowel pin. There would be sufficient bearing surface to securely locate a 3/16" dowel and enough threads to securely retain a 12-24 clamping bolt. Using M5x.8 bolts and 3/16 dowel pins might make more sense because M5 is a little more common than 12-24.
On a side note.. dont expect to clamp down on that little piece of aluminum and think your sides are gonna stay square. Your fixture is going to throw your tolerances out because it will warp when you bite down on it. Always make fixtures out of A2.
Why would chamfer the back sides of the dowel pin holes if they aren't "through" holes? in the sense that nothing is going to come out the back side where you'd need the relief.
+Chris DePrisco Oh.. I get it now. I had put a movable plate on the side to align stuff on mine but that is a more flexible idea. I will be making pins for mine now!!
I notice that you move from one hole to another very decisively as you're tapping. Are you moving the axes by hand while watching the DRO (which would be impressive, and I'd love to see a video of you demonstrating that skill), or do you have some kind of linear indexing mechanism?
+Jacob Grant If you scroll down a bit, you'll see he responded to anther similar comment. Don't hurl insults if you don't know what you're talking about. "Chris DePrisco5 months ago +Steve Hartig It's a Lagun mill with Anilam 2 axis CNC control. All I've used is conversational but it should be able to take code from Fusion360 for more complex operations. I guess I call it manual because I still need to raise and lower the knee/quill and just use the CNC for power feed and repeat positioning."
+Charles Gallo I made one of these recently, I just used a cordless drill with a spiral-flute tap. Worked great, and 120 holes only took a few minutes.
+Michael Pfleegor Thanks! I need to make a new pallet out of steel with more options soon. I use this one all the time so now I want an even better one.
If it was me i would have center drilled, drilled, chamfered all the holes, FLIPPED IT, indicated #1 hole and trammed it to the edge. Then you can use the same program to run the back side. You should only be tapping and reaming on side #2. You get no thread roll and a pefect reamed hole. I was litrerally cringing through that.
How do you not have any backlash in your machine? To be able to accurately move back and forth on the X without ballscrews is usually a backlash nightmare!
Hey Chris, great vid! I'm a budding machinist and still have much to learn. Quick question: does your manual mill have automatic Z control? If not, how did you thread those holes accurately by hand plunging? I'm curious to know how to do this! Thanks!
+Tyler Boone It does not. You just let the quill feed itself into the work, stop the motor, reverse it and then let it feed itself back out. You can probably find a lot of videos explaining it if you look up "power tapping". Thanks for watching!
Milling aluminium requires lower speeds to start with and you are aware things like WD40/GT85 can be toxic and dangerous when burned? There are reasons specific Machining coolants exist. I'm guessing you're machining at home?
lincolnmetal1 no I'm not, things like this can be toxic, as I pointed out and machining coolants are better for multiple reasons, the only logic to using wd40 here is that he is machining aluminium.
wd40 (or some lube similar) is used by the vast majority of machinists when cutting on a bridgeport...its cheap, easy, and comes in its own dispenser. as for your comment on aluminum requiring lower speeds...lower than what? plastic?
LOL, more like CN assistance than control, they knew how to write software in the '90s even though it looks like the CLI from MS-DOS. Nonetheless, nice pallet, I'll take two! Cheers
+James Lamb Thanks, they did a good job but a few of the controls are less than intuitive. I'd really like to see an "undo" button for the coordinate system if you accidentally hit enter for "set as zero" instead of start for "go to ...". More than a few times I've had to go break out the edge finder again... lol Then again, I'm probably just not doing something right!
+Chris DePrisco A very experienced machinist I work with keeps a clipboard next to the machine control box, and writes the machine origin values down on it after setting each workpiece. Then if you lose position you can always jog back to origin and re-zero.
Thank you for an interesting video. Was the pallet machined from cold rolled steel? What retains the part to the pallet? I'm only now beginning to enter the world of home hobby machining, with an LMS mini-mill. I'm lucky to have as a mentor a machinist who has been working in the trade for more than 60 years! I can't ask him everything though. Good thing for me there's an internet!
it says "on manual mill" in title but it s sure looks like it's moving with some kind of cnc because it goes to each hole and not every other one. is this a cnc'd manual mill?
+Dustan Webb Yea, I suppose it's "semi-manual". The X and Y are servo controlled but the Z/quill is not. It's good for automatically moving you to different points instead of cranking the wheels and watching the DRO, but it can't do anything like ramping or helical plunging and just sits there waiting for you whenever there is a Z move. So I guess I still call it "manual" but it's not, exactly (although it certainly feels that way).
Very nice job, those can be very useful. one nit pick though. You should get into the habit of zeroing you part on the fixed jaw of you vise. Not doing so can bite you on the ass if your making multiple parts or parts that need to be interchangeable.
+Steve Hartig It's a Lagun mill with Anilam 2 axis CNC control. All I've used is conversational but it should be able to take code from Fusion360 for more complex operations. I guess I call it manual because I still need to raise and lower the knee/quill and just use the CNC for power feed and repeat positioning.
+Chris DePrisco I watched a few of your other videos. The enclosure and panel you built for your 3040 is phenomenal. I've got a Fireball V90 in the garage with the most abysmal control scheme hacked together in a breaker box that you put to shame. And I call myself an Electrical Engineer...
Why aluminum....the worst one can use for fixtures..not sure what threads in there but 10-24 the other guy used seems awful small for clamping, if it was me, 3/8 would be the minimum....thanks for sharing.
Most mills have power feed, at least on the X-axis and usually on the Y as well. Although some American milling machines (like bridgeport), and cheap Chinese ones don't have power feed. Why would the surface finish be worse on a manual mill? If it's a rigid mill, and you use the same speeds and feeds as on a cnc, it will look the same.
As a woodworker for some reason I was expecting to see a common shipping pallet milled with high precision. That would be oddly satisfying.
Me too lol
I think by law those aren't allowed to have any precision beyond "eh, looks pretty good."
I go to school for machining and I've never seen or thought about making something like that. Happy I found this and you did a really nice job.
+John Heyen Thanks, glad you found it useful!
Looks good! The guys on reddit already explained why you should chamfer your holes before the finish operation, so I'll just leave you with one tip: You should only use three pins to locate your part. Two on the long side, one on the short side. Three points of contact is more reliable and more repeatable than four.
We love we use mini pallet hole pattern plates never get tired of watching another one be made even when our favorite of in steel and blanchard ground it really makes no difference wear usage time whatever. Fly cut it well on a balanced machine and away we go. The music helps us enjoy the varied pattern dowel thread dowel thread. Thank you glad we found this channel.
Loving the music. Reminds me of the music they had on the science videos in school when I was a kid :)
Maybe I'm missing something, but why call it a "manual" mill, when at 1:36, you show us the CNC programme that's controlling it? Do you mean something else when you say "manual"?
Nice glad to see you havent given up on making videos
Thanks!
I must say its very entertainment to watch the whole thing, even though it's just about drilling holes haha. thanks for showing us.
I'm glad you liked it! I never know if the videos are too long and get boring or if people will enjoy just sitting back and watching for a bit. :)
As a new subscriber, and from TX,, making the pallet on fast foreword reminded me when I could still do the "TX Two Step",,,hehe,,,Really cool,,,thx,,Bear.
I've made a lot of sub plates like this where I... 1) drill & tap all the holes, 2) then come back and ream the holes the minor diameter size so you can use a dowel pin or drill blank in any or all of the holes.
+Bret Banker Right, that's better. I plan on doing that on the next one.
+Chris DePrisco
In my experience you can never have enough holes to use on a fixture plate. When making bigger plates for a CNC mill I generally make all the holes blind 1/2-13. I make all the holes blind so they don't effect the table underneath but then they can all fill up w/ coolant... so I counter bore them all 5/8 diameter & use a 1/2-13 button head screw that i modify the head on to plug them all. This has worked very well for me over the years.
I think my next plate will be somewhat like that but will use sub-plates with different hole patterns/sizes for different things. Like one plate with 1/2-13 threads for the Mitee-bite clamps, one with smaller more close holes for smaller work, etc. Maybe even make a sub-plate for the vice so I can move it around easily. Also next time; steel. :)
+Chris DePrisco
You can also put smaller holes (10-32) in between the bigger holes. I've always had a saying, "you can put small parts in a big machine but you can't put big parts in a small machine". Just sayin.
Very nice! Separate like for 80s-mood-like music! 😊
Question. When I face over the top, moving back reveals that clearance is tighter at the end and loosened up at the beginning of the pass.
Why is that ?
Everything seems tight.
Very noticable with large stock.
I would go over from left to right and then left becomes lower when I crank it back.
You could make each hole do double duty as a locating hole and retainer. Take a 12-24 bolt for instance, the tap drill size is .177, if you substitute a .1875 reamed hole, the tap will cut ~50% threads, leaving a flat at the tip of the crest, to locate the dowel pin. There would be sufficient bearing surface to securely locate a 3/16" dowel and enough threads to securely retain a 12-24 clamping bolt.
Using M5x.8 bolts and 3/16 dowel pins might make more sense because M5 is a little more common than 12-24.
+eformance Interesting...!
Did he deburr the edges after milling ---prior to using the edge finder?
I wqs imagining one of those wood pallets things get delivered in...... now u gave me a great idea😁
On a side note.. dont expect to clamp down on that little piece of aluminum and think your sides are gonna stay square. Your fixture is going to throw your tolerances out because it will warp when you bite down on it. Always make fixtures out of A2.
Why would chamfer the back sides of the dowel pin holes if they aren't "through" holes? in the sense that nothing is going to come out the back side where you'd need the relief.
well there's another project I didn't know I wanted... ;)
Great pallet but how do you clamp the part against the pins?
Well you don't want to clamp parts using the pins, they are there just to get the parts aligned.
+Chris DePrisco Oh.. I get it now. I had put a movable plate on the side to align stuff on mine but that is a more flexible idea. I will be making pins for mine now!!
should have chamfered before tapping and reaming operations
thought that too.
Correct. The countersink bit can roll the the thread.
Why is there always a toolbag doosher that has to input some obscure piece of meaningless drivel to try to seem relevant?!
If you are unlucky your dial pins won't fit, when you're chamfering after reaming
when you use dull tools. yes. but just use sharp tools
I was more interested in the background music, that groove man
haha yeah man I felt that beat, too!
Manual mill ? Isn’t that cnc you’re using
Hey man, nice video, but say me please what the size the palet ?
Beautiful work!
What material?
Thanks for posting this, enjoyed it . You did not specify what material you used. I am guessing an aluminium alloy.
Thanks! You are correct. That's just what i had lying around. I'd prefer steel though.
I notice that you move from one hole to another very decisively as you're tapping. Are you moving the axes by hand while watching the DRO (which would be impressive, and I'd love to see a video of you demonstrating that skill), or do you have some kind of linear indexing mechanism?
+James Kao He's using a CNC mill - you can see him programming the hole pattern just before drilling.
+PercussivePercussion It literally says in the title of the video "on the manual mill", shit for brains
+Jacob Grant
If you scroll down a bit, you'll see he responded to anther similar comment. Don't hurl insults if you don't know what you're talking about.
"Chris DePrisco5 months ago
+Steve Hartig It's a Lagun mill with Anilam 2 axis CNC control. All I've used is conversational but it should be able to take code from Fusion360 for more complex operations.
I guess I call it manual because I still need to raise and lower the knee/quill and just use the CNC for power feed and repeat positioning."
Jacob Grant is a clueless fuck
Why did you chamfer the underside of the pallet?
Just to make sure there weren't any burrs that would make it sit unlevel.
Superb video. Thanks for making it....
Nice video and tune! The name of the tune please?
+Sangyoon Kim it tells you at 0:08
Betting on that job you wish you had a tapping head. Set the mill to "forward" and when tap hits depth, it auto reverses at like 4x speed
+Charles Gallo I made one of these recently, I just used a cordless drill with a spiral-flute tap. Worked great, and 120 holes only took a few minutes.
Even if machined, you use normally only 3 Pins as counter :)
what's the music title?
nice vid and nice music.
great idea and execution, brother. But we didn't need to see every freaking hole plunge!
Tapping in a drill chuck…. Nice
why chamfer the backside of the post holes if you stopped the reamer shy of the back side?
So there wouldn't be any burrs that may cause it to sit un-level. They didn't NEED a chamfer it just seemed easy since it was all set up.
Chris DePrisco oh, the pretty factor, I see.
Good grief. What was that, like 1100 something actions? The quill probably got warm! Nice work.
nice job! how long did it take you in real time?
Oh, probably about an hour once I got all set up.
+Chris DePrisco nice! pretty fast if you ask me. i got mine from yesterday and now drawing to make some clamps for it.
Great Video Chris
+Michael Pfleegor Thanks! I need to make a new pallet out of steel with more options soon. I use this one all the time so now I want an even better one.
+Chris DePrisco
Chris if you want to get rid of that one you could always send it to me. lol.
Never find edge on moving jaw of vise!
It was just one part so it's not like there is a chance of variation.
What machine do you use??
It is a Lagun FTV-2 manual mill with Anilam 3200mk controls.
If it was me i would have center drilled, drilled, chamfered all the holes, FLIPPED IT, indicated #1 hole and trammed it to the edge. Then you can use the same program to run the back side. You should only be tapping and reaming on side #2. You get no thread roll and a pefect reamed hole. I was litrerally cringing through that.
you should get a tormach pcnc 1100 cnc mill but good work keep it up!!!!
You should buy me one.
Jason Williams 2.2kw CNC router would have done the job easy
How do you not have any backlash in your machine? To be able to accurately move back and forth on the X without ballscrews is usually a backlash nightmare!
DRO
Was fun to watch
You always chamfer before you tap. Its a miracle your tap survived that.
Hey Chris, great vid! I'm a budding machinist and still have much to learn. Quick question: does your manual mill have automatic Z control? If not, how did you thread those holes accurately by hand plunging? I'm curious to know how to do this! Thanks!
+Tyler Boone It does not. You just let the quill feed itself into the work, stop the motor, reverse it and then let it feed itself back out. You can probably find a lot of videos explaining it if you look up "power tapping". Thanks for watching!
0:30 Did you really just use WD40 to lubricate an end mill?
Yea. WD40 is a pretty decent lubricant for milling aluminum and it's all I had.
Milling aluminium requires lower speeds to start with and you are aware things like WD40/GT85 can be toxic and dangerous when burned? There are reasons specific Machining coolants exist. I'm guessing you're machining at home?
you are high right? just say yes, otherwise the actual machinists here will belittle you to death...
lincolnmetal1 no I'm not, things like this can be toxic, as I pointed out and machining coolants are better for multiple reasons, the only logic to using wd40 here is that he is machining aluminium.
wd40 (or some lube similar) is used by the vast majority of machinists when cutting on a bridgeport...its cheap, easy, and comes in its own dispenser. as for your comment on aluminum requiring lower speeds...lower than what? plastic?
LOL, more like CN assistance than control, they knew how to write software in the '90s even though it looks like the CLI from MS-DOS. Nonetheless, nice pallet, I'll take two!
Cheers
+James Lamb Thanks, they did a good job but a few of the controls are less than intuitive. I'd really like to see an "undo" button for the coordinate system if you accidentally hit enter for "set as zero" instead of start for "go to ...". More than a few times I've had to go break out the edge finder again... lol
Then again, I'm probably just not doing something right!
+Chris DePrisco A very experienced machinist I work with keeps a clipboard next to the machine control box, and writes the machine origin values down on it after setting each workpiece. Then if you lose position you can always jog back to origin and re-zero.
One thing to say, thats a lot of holes!
What are the taped holes for?
They are for bolting parts down to the plate.
Seems to be CNC not manual.
Thank you for an interesting video. Was the pallet machined from cold rolled steel?
What retains the part to the pallet?
I'm only now beginning to enter the world of home hobby machining, with an LMS mini-mill. I'm lucky to have as a mentor a machinist who has been working in the trade for more than 60 years! I can't ask him everything though. Good thing for me there's an internet!
+Fred U. Thats aluminum
it says "on manual mill" in title but it s sure looks like it's moving with some kind of cnc because it goes to each hole and not every other one. is this a cnc'd manual mill?
+Dustan Webb Yea, I suppose it's "semi-manual". The X and Y are servo controlled but the Z/quill is not. It's good for automatically moving you to different points instead of cranking the wheels and watching the DRO, but it can't do anything like ramping or helical plunging and just sits there waiting for you whenever there is a Z move.
So I guess I still call it "manual" but it's not, exactly (although it certainly feels that way).
+Chris DePrisco that would be pretty handy. my cousin made one of those pallets but all manual and it sure was a pain
great video keep them coming :)
+Dominik Lizak Glad you enjoyed it!
awesome channel!! Subscribed!
nice work.
Weren't you concerned about chips getting into the tap and ruining your thread?
How do you mean?
Chris DePrisco
Metal chips getting stuck on the tap between holes and resulting in a damaged work piece.
Ah. I guess I just didn't think about that. :P
Luck was on his side that day :D Aluminum has a bigger chance to stick and cause damage right? Rarely work with aluminum myself..
Very nice job, those can be very useful. one nit pick though. You should get into the habit of zeroing you part on the fixed jaw of you vise. Not doing so can bite you on the ass if your making multiple parts or parts that need to be interchangeable.
Yup, I've learned to do that. :)
milling with quill down is lazy and a great way to loosen head up. fail
good job.
+Ronaldo Nardao Thanks!
AL or Steel？
Simon Paul al
also referred to as a 'sub plate'
You say "manual mill". Are we talking conversational control?
+Steve Hartig It's a Lagun mill with Anilam 2 axis CNC control. All I've used is conversational but it should be able to take code from Fusion360 for more complex operations.
I guess I call it manual because I still need to raise and lower the knee/quill and just use the CNC for power feed and repeat positioning.
+Chris DePrisco I watched a few of your other videos. The enclosure and panel you built for your 3040 is phenomenal. I've got a Fireball V90 in the garage with the most abysmal control scheme hacked together in a breaker box that you put to shame. And I call myself an Electrical Engineer...
+Steve Hartig Thanks, lol.
Advise to raise after edge finder touch the workpiece.
Why aluminum....the worst one can use for fixtures..not sure what threads in there but 10-24 the other guy used seems awful small for clamping, if it was me, 3/8 would be the minimum....thanks for sharing.
"Manual mill" lol
It's a manual mill, he's just using a DRO. (I assume)
+Jaret Snyder watch the beginning again. handle is moving all by it's self. hole location is possible with a DRO, but that surface finish? Lol
Random Brandon I did wonder about that myself. I'm interested in making one but my mill is manual I don't even have a dro
Most mills have power feed, at least on the X-axis and usually on the Y as well. Although some American milling machines (like bridgeport), and cheap Chinese ones don't have power feed.
Why would the surface finish be worse on a manual mill? If it's a rigid mill, and you use the same speeds and feeds as on a cnc, it will look the same.
He has a 2-axis CNC system on it. He can operate it either as a fully manual mill or with CNC assistance.
i like this music haha
"Manual" mill
Very nice video. Horrible background music!
Nice. :)
nothing agaisnt you but you could have won some time by not pre-drilling the hole :)
Soooooo, just tap a piece of solid metal? I dont think so.
Well there's an amateur for you. In nearly every way.
nice work