Desde la primera nota del segundo mov....de este RV 583.... Literalmente mi corazón sale de mi pecho oara irse a atrapar esas notas que juntas lo tienen conmovido...absorto... maravillado....mi mente solo piensa que como es posible que un ser humano puede realizar algo tan inconmensurable y al mismo tiempo simple .... como es la musica que es el fuego que enciende el espíritu....repito ...con este concierto Vivaldi se pone sin ninguna duda a la altura de Bach... Mozart y Beethoven....
(Français : voir ci-dessus dans la description) Among Vivaldi’s large output of violin concertos, this piece can claim special status for a number of reasons. It is one of the concertos ‘in due cori’, the orchestra being divided into two groups; only four other concertos by Vivaldi employ this scheme. (A connection with St. Mark’s, closely associated with this tradition, cannot however be ascertained.) It is also one of the few instances where Vivaldi calls for special tuning of the solo violin known as ‘scordatura’. Additionally, it features a fully written-out cadenza by Vivaldi at the end of the third movement, an even rarer occurrence. These features, combined with the slow introduction in movement I, suggest it was probably meant for a grand occasion, most likely in a church setting. As for the tuning of the violin, Vivaldi’s intent is quite clear: brought up a minor third, the last open string now sounds the tonic, a resounding B-flat which allows for extended passages of bariolage and double-stopping. The middle movement features a seven-bar ‘ritornello’ functioning as a ground bass, not unlike that of a passacaille or a chaconne. In the score this is written out only once, followed by the indication: ‘segue sempre l’istesso Rit[ornel]lo ment[r]e suona il Principale’ (‘here follows the same ritornello always, while the first violin plays’). Vivaldi then notated the variations to be played by the soloist. This remarkable andante is sometimes singled out as the most beautiful slow movement ever composed by Vivaldi. This is surprising only because of the huge numbers involved; using only the simplest of materials, yet powerfully lyrical, it is quintessential Vivaldi of the mature period, which saw the composer reach new inspirational heights. Recorded at the tail end of the sixties, and roughly 50 years old as of this writing, the performance featured here is hardly representative of current Vivaldian musicianship. In the 1970s, Claudio Scimone and his Solisti Veneti were all the rage, after the pioneering efforts of other Italian groups, most notably I Musici. Spoiled rotten, today’s listener has little need for the comparatively sedate tuttis and often muddled sound of the Venetians, agreeable at best, and turning Vivaldi’s lighter fare into elevator music at worst. But in the ‘solemn’ concertos, they were arguably the best, not least because of Piero Toso’s incandescent violin: a colorful Amati, luminously played by a consummate musician. Treading the same ground, period-performance groups, for all their instrumental and technical authenticity, have failed to repeat this particular musical miracle. RV 583 served as filler on I Solisti Veneti’s recording of the mandolin concertos, a huge commercial success (the audio here was extracted from the original vinyl record using a conventional turntable setup). A significant milestone in the interpretative renaissance of the Italian baroque, Claudio Scimone passed away in 2018 aged 83 years, a few days after conducting his last concert.
I can recall the early days of my interest in Vivaldi, when recordings by groups such as Il Solisti Veneti and I Musici were the only way to hear many works, if I was lucky enough to be able to find any way. Zoom forward to today, and one can look at us as spoiled. Another way to view it that occurs to me sometimes, is how pathetic the availability of recordings of Vivaldi and much early music was for a long time. Shouldn't the era we live in be closer to the default? Another dichotomy of thought strikes me. It's hard to go back and listen to a recording like this, frankly. It's like being in a hot tub and then jumping into a chilly swimming pool. The context isn't kind. But you have to salute the passion, sense of adventure and effort that these groups put in, trying to get the music available and playing it to the best of their reckoning. On the flip side of that line of thought, sometimes I am struck by the complete lack of instinct these performers have for the music. There is no suppleness of line, such a clumsy and limited range of articulation. The tempos often drag quite obviously, not just because we 'know better' now, but because they weren't willing to really 'listen' to what the music was saying and hear the obvious need to adjust tempi (over the noise of their Romanic-centric training and points of reference). Even the dynamic range is limited. In areas they play massive, screaming fortissimos, and they are very dedicated to jarring terraced dynamics, but otherwise the dynamics are one-dimensional and cloying. It's hard not to think that the way they handled the music was ham-handed beyond what one would expect merely from ignorance of yet to be conducted performance practice research. And honestly, while much research has been done, a ton of the refinement and possible accuracy of the new recordings/performances are simply from playing the music, doing so on original setups, and exploring a full array of composers. After so long playing music in that 'language' on original set up instruments, I think musicians get the logic of what they are playing on a different level. I am very grateful for these early groups working to give the revival of Vivaldi and others life. That doesn't come with no strings attached, I guess. Side note: It is easy to feel spoiled and we do have many riches, but in recent years the amount of recordings of Vivaldi and Baroque music in general has fallen off a cliff. This was happening before Covid. The economic calculus seems to have tightened on the musicians and labels who are putting out 'period' Baroque and early Classical recordings. I don't know if it is specifically due to European economics (as the most active of these groups on the recording front are from Europe) because I'm in America and am less able to get a feel for the reasons. Still great groups all over and they get great recordings out sometimes, but it seems a lot harder these days, sadly. I hope that changes.
@@ConanNugga No doubt there is a dearth of recording for the reasons you mention, but for Vivaldi in particular I also suspect artistic fatigue. When the Italians burst onto the scene it gave a tremendous boost to an already great momentum, but the heroes of yesterday today seem tired and done with it, even as the new generation seems unable to find new directions. And as the operas got more attention the instrumental music seemed to get less. Now the Vivaldi edition seems pretty much stalled with Alessandrini recording L'estro armonico while dozens of violin concerti are still waiting for their first outings. Recent releases have been pretty underwhelming. Among the big names only Dantone still has his heart in it. Engineering quality has also plummeted. Tough times indeed!
@@DelVivaldi Fatigue certainly could be a factor. I hope it's not. I view Vivaldi as a top composer--the kind of artist generations always want to explore, and among composers of Vivaldi's level there are few examples of a situation where all the quality music by that composer has not yet been recorded in acceptable versions. But I'm not sure that's truly the core of the issue. A lot of groups are still very passionate about performing and recording Vivaldi. Judging these groups' interest in exploring Vivaldi through the lens of the Vivaldi Edition will distort, as the Vivaldi Edition has lost a lot of steam (and seemingly financial resources). But even blaming Naive and the Edition (who are in a central role in exploring Vivaldi and putting down quality recordings) is unfair as all manner of groups on all manner of labels have been struggling. And it's not due to disinterest in what they've always been interested suddenly hitting. It's the financial reality. International instability, economic instability and structural economic realities that are unfriendly to musicians and recording, plus how insane the internet has made our societies. We've really hardly begun to adapt to the internet in ways we will be forced to. We'll have to find ways to, if not put the genie back in the bottle, at least agree on some containment standards for some things. In regard to the recording industry, the internet and the endless rapid change has made successfully navigating a recorded career so difficult, and in some cases impossible. The period baroque 'industry' was always a marginal one even in good times, so it feels these effects even quicker than most recording artists. At least the quality is harder to dip--pop music seems to fall off a quality cliff in these circumstances and not get held to account for it as in the past, in addition to just getting shut out of recording opportunities. It mostly harms the period groups by silencing them, though the engineering may have taken a dip (this could be related to tight financial reality more than anything). In the case that there may be fatigue (and no, not every period can have that first glance type exploratory excitement when exploring a composer, but we are still in the end phases of first glance with Vivaldi) musicians' judgement may be to blame to a degree. I've been very interested in hearing a new recording in 'today's standards' of RV 256 (Il Ritro) for years and years. I think in like 2007 or something I emailed Adrian Chandler when he was easier to reach and asked him to record it (he stated he had no plans to). Yet, there has been a vogue for Vivaldi's late period Violin concertos in recent years (VERY much including on Naive's Edition and it's attempt the catch up on the violin concerti) that has created a lot of redundancy. I'm such Vivaldi nerd that it's fun to hear these different versions and compare the approaches, sound etc. But it's wasteful and hurries fatigue artificially. A significant percent of Vivaldi's violin concerto have no good period recording or at best, a lack of options. And even good efforts (such as those by Sasso) to rectify this situation from some time ago are already getting hard to find. I do expect this to get better when societal things settle down and economies get on track. The music industry at large will find more footing eventually, adapt and do consistently better than they are now, or at least I hope.
This is the recording I personally had over 40 years ago and I am interested hearing newer ones. Stylistic concerns aside, the musicians put their all into the performance. The aria-like slow movement still brings me to joyful tears.
Quanto hai ragione Mario! Penso che anche l'anima di Don Antonio si stesse disintegrando, considerando che è uno dei suoi ultimi concerti composti a Venezia, prima che partisse per Vienna (e ci lasciasse le penne). Eppure nonostante la malattia e la povertà, quanta forza ancora!
I have absolutely fallen head over heals for this piece. I think it would be more popular if it didn't require a double string orchestra and the principal violin to tune the G string up to B-flat. Such an odd gem.
I wouldn't go as far because I find that a LOT of Vivaldi pieces are wonderfully composed and extremely beautiful. However this piece is clearly among the ones who truely prove how capable and wonderful a composer he was. If you go past his most popular works, you'll discover a library full of a plethora of diverse and varied hidden gems, like this extremely unique and virtuoso concerto. Technically speaking, this piece is indeed among the best Vivaldi has produced.
Not an outright disagreement here, but I don’t find too much Bach in this in terms of rhythm and theme except 4:01 (a strictly chromatic ascending pattern then descending) or 4:36 and certainly a few other spots including the Tutti at 3:31 but not 12:05, 12:59, or 13:50 which sounded generally more Italian like Locatelli or Albinoni and I believe Vivaldi was more unique in his spontaneous rhythm changes whilst maintaining a consistent theme and was more optimistic in his sound than Bach who did the most for counterpoint and was quite skilled in his knowledge of other instruments. Bach’s violin partitas it’s were particularly impressive
@@paulmusyk4lyfe51 I'm gonna be honest here, a year later, I'm barely hearing any Bach in this concerto, and I'm not sure why I left the comment in the first place. I think what might've happened was that this comment was for an other video, but since my RUclips app on phone is kinda buggy, the comment was left under this video instead (that has happened other times to me as well, that's why I suspect that). Because there are many other concertos where you can strongly here rythms or chord progressions that are ttpical of Bach, but this isn't one of them.
Mi invitò all’ascolto un rivenditore di dischi in Venezia. Completai il mio giudizio su Vivaldi, che conquistò la mia esigenza di novità. E Vivaldi scrive passi musicali sempre nuovi... Così induce nell’ascoltatore commozione e pianto. Come in questo Andante 583
È il più bel concerto che io abbia mai ascoltato! Nessuno può più chiedersi perché J.S. Bach fu uno dei suoi grandi estimatori! Qui si scopre quale sensibile Genio VIVALDI era.!
Certainement un des mouvements lents les plus beaux de Vivaldi, mais qui parait si simple à la lecture... Vivaldi était vraiment un génie !
Qué bello concierto. No lo conocía. Gracias miles por este maravilloso canal. Sin duda, lo mejor de RUclips.
Desde la primera nota del segundo mov....de este RV 583.... Literalmente mi corazón sale de mi pecho oara irse a atrapar esas notas que juntas lo tienen conmovido...absorto... maravillado....mi mente solo piensa que como es posible que un ser humano puede realizar algo tan inconmensurable y al mismo tiempo simple .... como es la musica que es el fuego que enciende el espíritu....repito ...con este concierto Vivaldi se pone sin ninguna duda a la altura de Bach... Mozart y Beethoven....
(Français : voir ci-dessus dans la description)
Among Vivaldi’s large output of violin concertos, this piece can claim special status for a number of reasons. It is one of the concertos ‘in due cori’, the orchestra being divided into two groups; only four other concertos by Vivaldi employ this scheme. (A connection with St. Mark’s, closely associated with this tradition, cannot however be ascertained.) It is also one of the few instances where Vivaldi calls for special tuning of the solo violin known as ‘scordatura’. Additionally, it features a fully written-out cadenza by Vivaldi at the end of the third movement, an even rarer occurrence. These features, combined with the slow introduction in movement I, suggest it was probably meant for a grand occasion, most likely in a church setting.
As for the tuning of the violin, Vivaldi’s intent is quite clear: brought up a minor third, the last open string now sounds the tonic, a resounding B-flat which allows for extended passages of bariolage and double-stopping.
The middle movement features a seven-bar ‘ritornello’ functioning as a ground bass, not unlike that of a passacaille or a chaconne. In the score this is written out only once, followed by the indication: ‘segue sempre l’istesso Rit[ornel]lo ment[r]e suona il Principale’ (‘here follows the same ritornello always, while the first violin plays’). Vivaldi then notated the variations to be played by the soloist. This remarkable andante is sometimes singled out as the most beautiful slow movement ever composed by Vivaldi. This is surprising only because of the huge numbers involved; using only the simplest of materials, yet powerfully lyrical, it is quintessential Vivaldi of the mature period, which saw the composer reach new inspirational heights.
Recorded at the tail end of the sixties, and roughly 50 years old as of this writing, the performance featured here is hardly representative of current Vivaldian musicianship. In the 1970s, Claudio Scimone and his Solisti Veneti were all the rage, after the pioneering efforts of other Italian groups, most notably I Musici. Spoiled rotten, today’s listener has little need for the comparatively sedate tuttis and often muddled sound of the Venetians, agreeable at best, and turning Vivaldi’s lighter fare into elevator music at worst. But in the ‘solemn’ concertos, they were arguably the best, not least because of Piero Toso’s incandescent violin: a colorful Amati, luminously played by a consummate musician. Treading the same ground, period-performance groups, for all their instrumental and technical authenticity, have failed to repeat this particular musical miracle.
RV 583 served as filler on I Solisti Veneti’s recording of the mandolin concertos, a huge commercial success (the audio here was extracted from the original vinyl record using a conventional turntable setup). A significant milestone in the interpretative renaissance of the Italian baroque, Claudio Scimone passed away in 2018 aged 83 years, a few days after conducting his last concert.
I can recall the early days of my interest in Vivaldi, when recordings by groups such as Il Solisti Veneti and I Musici were the only way to hear many works, if I was lucky enough to be able to find any way. Zoom forward to today, and one can look at us as spoiled. Another way to view it that occurs to me sometimes, is how pathetic the availability of recordings of Vivaldi and much early music was for a long time. Shouldn't the era we live in be closer to the default?
Another dichotomy of thought strikes me. It's hard to go back and listen to a recording like this, frankly. It's like being in a hot tub and then jumping into a chilly swimming pool. The context isn't kind. But you have to salute the passion, sense of adventure and effort that these groups put in, trying to get the music available and playing it to the best of their reckoning.
On the flip side of that line of thought, sometimes I am struck by the complete lack of instinct these performers have for the music. There is no suppleness of line, such a clumsy and limited range of articulation. The tempos often drag quite obviously, not just because we 'know better' now, but because they weren't willing to really 'listen' to what the music was saying and hear the obvious need to adjust tempi (over the noise of their Romanic-centric training and points of reference). Even the dynamic range is limited. In areas they play massive, screaming fortissimos, and they are very dedicated to jarring terraced dynamics, but otherwise the dynamics are one-dimensional and cloying. It's hard not to think that the way they handled the music was ham-handed beyond what one would expect merely from ignorance of yet to be conducted performance practice research. And honestly, while much research has been done, a ton of the refinement and possible accuracy of the new recordings/performances are simply from playing the music, doing so on original setups, and exploring a full array of composers. After so long playing music in that 'language' on original set up instruments, I think musicians get the logic of what they are playing on a different level.
I am very grateful for these early groups working to give the revival of Vivaldi and others life. That doesn't come with no strings attached, I guess. Side note: It is easy to feel spoiled and we do have many riches, but in recent years the amount of recordings of Vivaldi and Baroque music in general has fallen off a cliff. This was happening before Covid. The economic calculus seems to have tightened on the musicians and labels who are putting out 'period' Baroque and early Classical recordings. I don't know if it is specifically due to European economics (as the most active of these groups on the recording front are from Europe) because I'm in America and am less able to get a feel for the reasons. Still great groups all over and they get great recordings out sometimes, but it seems a lot harder these days, sadly. I hope that changes.
@@ConanNugga No doubt there is a dearth of recording for the reasons you mention, but for Vivaldi in particular I also suspect artistic fatigue. When the Italians burst onto the scene it gave a tremendous boost to an already great momentum, but the heroes of yesterday today seem tired and done with it, even as the new generation seems unable to find new directions. And as the operas got more attention the instrumental music seemed to get less. Now the Vivaldi edition seems pretty much stalled with Alessandrini recording L'estro armonico while dozens of violin concerti are still waiting for their first outings. Recent releases have been pretty underwhelming. Among the big names only Dantone still has his heart in it. Engineering quality has also plummeted. Tough times indeed!
@@DelVivaldi Fatigue certainly could be a factor. I hope it's not. I view Vivaldi as a top composer--the kind of artist generations always want to explore, and among composers of Vivaldi's level there are few examples of a situation where all the quality music by that composer has not yet been recorded in acceptable versions.
But I'm not sure that's truly the core of the issue. A lot of groups are still very passionate about performing and recording Vivaldi. Judging these groups' interest in exploring Vivaldi through the lens of the Vivaldi Edition will distort, as the Vivaldi Edition has lost a lot of steam (and seemingly financial resources). But even blaming Naive and the Edition (who are in a central role in exploring Vivaldi and putting down quality recordings) is unfair as all manner of groups on all manner of labels have been struggling. And it's not due to disinterest in what they've always been interested suddenly hitting. It's the financial reality. International instability, economic instability and structural economic realities that are unfriendly to musicians and recording, plus how insane the internet has made our societies. We've really hardly begun to adapt to the internet in ways we will be forced to. We'll have to find ways to, if not put the genie back in the bottle, at least agree on some containment standards for some things. In regard to the recording industry, the internet and the endless rapid change has made successfully navigating a recorded career so difficult, and in some cases impossible. The period baroque 'industry' was always a marginal one even in good times, so it feels these effects even quicker than most recording artists. At least the quality is harder to dip--pop music seems to fall off a quality cliff in these circumstances and not get held to account for it as in the past, in addition to just getting shut out of recording opportunities. It mostly harms the period groups by silencing them, though the engineering may have taken a dip (this could be related to tight financial reality more than anything).
In the case that there may be fatigue (and no, not every period can have that first glance type exploratory excitement when exploring a composer, but we are still in the end phases of first glance with Vivaldi) musicians' judgement may be to blame to a degree. I've been very interested in hearing a new recording in 'today's standards' of RV 256 (Il Ritro) for years and years. I think in like 2007 or something I emailed Adrian Chandler when he was easier to reach and asked him to record it (he stated he had no plans to). Yet, there has been a vogue for Vivaldi's late period Violin concertos in recent years (VERY much including on Naive's Edition and it's attempt the catch up on the violin concerti) that has created a lot of redundancy. I'm such Vivaldi nerd that it's fun to hear these different versions and compare the approaches, sound etc. But it's wasteful and hurries fatigue artificially. A significant percent of Vivaldi's violin concerto have no good period recording or at best, a lack of options. And even good efforts (such as those by Sasso) to rectify this situation from some time ago are already getting hard to find. I do expect this to get better when societal things settle down and economies get on track. The music industry at large will find more footing eventually, adapt and do consistently better than they are now, or at least I hope.
@@ConanNugga Just discovered your reply today. I hope you are right, and as always, thank you for your input.
This is the recording I personally had over 40 years ago and I am interested hearing newer ones. Stylistic concerns aside, the musicians put their all into the performance. The aria-like slow movement still brings me to joyful tears.
Semplicemente meraviglioso.... un volo di gabbiano che apre il cuore ❤ ....
L'ascoltai più di 45 anni fa e la mia anima si disintegrò!
Quanto hai ragione Mario! Penso che anche l'anima di Don Antonio si stesse disintegrando, considerando che è uno dei suoi ultimi concerti composti a Venezia, prima che partisse per Vienna (e ci lasciasse le penne). Eppure nonostante la malattia e la povertà, quanta forza ancora!
As always, Antonio Vivaldi the "the father of music" at his best. Full to the last note with he's heart and soul.
What is beauty? THIS is beauty.
Uno dei brani più struggenti composti da Vivaldi Magnifico!
Vivaldi at his best… the second movement is so heartfelt
This is definitely one of his 10 best works!
I have absolutely fallen head over heals for this piece. I think it would be more popular if it didn't require a double string orchestra and the principal violin to tune the G string up to B-flat. Such an odd gem.
been so enthusiastic about just one work leads to error, be more prudent!
If not the best one...
いつでも、引き込まれ心踊る💃🕺！〜〜〜
ありがとうございます😊。
Fantastic....thanks...
Semplicemente sublime .
Best of all Vivaldi's works.
I wouldn't go as far because I find that a LOT of Vivaldi pieces are wonderfully composed and extremely beautiful.
However this piece is clearly among the ones who truely prove how capable and wonderful a composer he was.
If you go past his most popular works, you'll discover a library full of a plethora of diverse and varied hidden gems, like this extremely unique and virtuoso concerto.
Technically speaking, this piece is indeed among the best Vivaldi has produced.
This concerto has a lot of Bach vibes (or more accurately, these types of concertos truely showcase how inspired by Vivaldi Bach was.)
Not an outright disagreement here, but I don’t find too much Bach in this in terms of rhythm and theme except 4:01 (a strictly chromatic ascending pattern then descending) or 4:36 and certainly a few other spots including the Tutti at 3:31 but not 12:05, 12:59, or 13:50 which sounded generally more Italian like Locatelli or Albinoni and I believe Vivaldi was more unique in his spontaneous rhythm changes whilst maintaining a consistent theme and was more optimistic in his sound than Bach who did the most for counterpoint and was quite skilled in his knowledge of other instruments. Bach’s violin partitas it’s were particularly impressive
@@paulmusyk4lyfe51 I'm gonna be honest here, a year later, I'm barely hearing any Bach in this concerto, and I'm not sure why I left the comment in the first place.
I think what might've happened was that this comment was for an other video, but since my RUclips app on phone is kinda buggy, the comment was left under this video instead (that has happened other times to me as well, that's why I suspect that).
Because there are many other concertos where you can strongly here rythms or chord progressions that are ttpical of Bach, but this isn't one of them.
Bravissimo !!!
Depois da introdução com movimentos ascendentes e descendentes vem um jorro. quantas mudanças dentro do próprio movimento (I).
best ever!
Sheer Vivaldian genius at its best. Period.
Piero Toso grandissimo!
Muy bueno su canal gracias por compartir esta música tan bonita.
Mi invitò all’ascolto un rivenditore di dischi in Venezia.
Completai il mio giudizio su Vivaldi, che conquistò la mia esigenza di novità.
E Vivaldi scrive passi musicali sempre nuovi...
Così induce nell’ascoltatore commozione e pianto.
Come in questo Andante 583
Incantevole! Possiamo dire che , Sicuramente, Vivaldi incanto ' anche Bach!,che fu , il suo più grande estimatore!
Non tutti sanno che la morte di Bach (28 luglio 1750),svenne esattamente 9 anni dopo VIVALDI (28 luglio 1741).
@@luisagarau638tutti i grandi compositori d'Europa furono ispirati da Vivaldi
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Cadenza 13:32
È il più bel concerto che io abbia mai ascoltato! Nessuno può più chiedersi perché J.S. Bach fu uno dei suoi grandi estimatori! Qui si scopre quale sensibile Genio VIVALDI era.!
0:50, 3:07
Where could we find the album ? Do you have the link to this album ? This version of the andante is sublime
This piece isn't any less beautiful than the Chaconne
Ancora dopo 40 anni, la commozione mi assale....
L'adagio è uno dei brani più struggenti composti da Vivaldi