Weird reactions to dirt bike known issues & common problems!︱Cross Training Enduro
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- www.crosstraini... How do you reaction to known issues?
0:29 "My bike has been problem-free, so you are lying!"
1:35 "Why bother listing known issues that occur often?"
2:30 "How dare you criticise my motorbike!"
2:55 Reverse brand loyalty
3:19 "Oh no, my bike is going to explode!"
4:04 Japanese v European reliability
4:38 Do Europeans treat customers like lab rats?
5:05 Why can it take so long for known issues to be fixed?!
Every dirt bike brand has their known issues. It's a fact of life. But we get some very weird reactions to discussing the common problems with brands, like KTM, Beta, Husqvarna, Rieju, GasGas and Sherco. So lets look at strange responses to dirt bike common problems. Known issues. Common problems. Design faults. If you dig deep enough, you can compile a long list for any motorbike. Into enduro riding? See all our dirt bike videos for dirt riding tips. We think this is a good idea. Why? It makes sense to buy the motorbike that will be the most reliable and need less maintenance and modifications. Our channel now had hundreds of dirt bike videos covering reviews, and enduro riding techniques. Search our channel for dirt riding gear too. Over the past seven years, our reviews have focused more on the known issues and common problems with various enduro motorbikes. Our dirt riding tips also include wider topics such as the best dirt riding boots. But some reviewers react badly. Reaction number one. My motorbike has never had this problem. Therefore your claims are untrue! It is basic statistics. Lets look at the main bearing failures on Beta two strokes that began in 2018. Once this was publicised, Beta USA stated there was a 5% failure rate. Dozens of loyal Beta owners told me it was a myth because their Beta had no main bearing issues. And their friend's motorbikes were fine too. There is a similar reaction to the CDI corrosion problems in recent Beta models. Reaction number two. If only a small number of motorbikes are failing, then why bother publicising it? I think this depends on your personality type. Lets assume that 5% of 2021 TPI motorbikes will seize in their first 100 hours. Our conclusion? We think most reviews of motorbikes and products are not critical enough. So instead of glowing reviews that regurgitate the manufacturer's claims, we will continue to actively look for faults and known issues. How you deal with this.... we leave up to you! Have you hit known issues with your motorbike? What happened? What was your reaction? Let us know in the comments. Do European brands sometimes bring out their innovations too soon, and treat riders as lab rats? This is a common accusation leveled at KTM. And we have covered this in another video. In some cases, this does appear to be likely. It's an interesting debate as innovation almost always means some level of known issues emerging. Why do some manufacturers take so long to address known issues? A very interesting topic! Sometimes it can just be laziness. For example, I have spoken to Beta dealers who say there is no feedback process with Beta head office. They try to provide feedback on known issues, but they allege the Italian head office is not interested. On the other hand, KTM do seem to respond pretty quickly in most cases. Also, it can simply take time to resolve problems. What is the issue? How do we need to change things? How soon can the new parts be available? How dare you attack my bike! You have to love brand loyalty. It's very understandable. Some riders check their CDIs, find no corrosion, and say it's a myth. The same principle applies to the various TPI problems reported in KTM, GasGas and Husqvarna two strokes. We don't know the actual rates of engine failures, but the majority of owners do have problem-free riding. The simple fact is most known issues only appear in a limited number of motorbikes. In statistical terms, you need a very broad sample to get an idea of the problem. Reaction number four. I told you that brand is shit! It's reverse brand loyalty. A good example of this is riders who own Japanese motorbikes. The moment you report a known issue with a European brand, they see this as proof that all European motorbikes are unreliable. There can be an element of truth to this. We'll discuss that shortly. Reaction number five. A complete engine rebuild is very expensive. Whereas a problem with poor quality taillight bulbs failing is probably not worth mentioning. I also think it's a good thing to publicise known issues as it provides more pressure on manufacturers to resolve problems, provide goodwill warranties, and issue service bulletins or recalls if needed. Reaction number three. A better response to a potential known issue with your motorbike is just research the problem. See what the solutions are. And realise that known issues usually only occur in a small number of cases.
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On ya Barry , keep the known issues videos coming. Breath of fresh air compared to the motorcycle press where the advertising revenue controls the narrative
Cheers Alex! I understand a lot of guys hate 'known issues' vids but they can just visit other channels instead. Almost no one seems to be seriously critical anymore so I'll try to keep it up for those who like it. 😎
I have a 2018 FE 350. I changed out the cam chain tensioner to a manual one after hearing about possible slack, causing the chain to jump a tooth. I regularly check valve clearance and check chain tention. This is a great bike! I love it. Iv never had a problem. Bike has 250 hrs
Maybe it's a age thing .When I started riding in 72 almost everything was junk by todays standards . Steel fenders ,chains made of licorice , carbs that flooded in 3 seconds if you laid the bike over .Tire
(tyre) tubes the thickness of condoms that flatted almost every ride. You soon learned to wire your spokes, carry spare cables ,levers ,masters links,at least two spare plugs . Bailing wire ,(no ZIP ties) spare bolts and all the tools to reattach the bits that fell off. All this for machines 30 lb heavier ,with 25 hp and 6 inch fork travel and 4 inch shock movement. Top riders got very good at top end overhaul at lunch stops. Back then most of the terrain ridden as Hard Enduro would be viewed as MADNESS .We are spoiled today, but manufactures should still stand behind what they sell.
Great story!
Completely agree, James! Today's bikes are better than 95% of us will ever be... just choose your favourite colour!
Gran historia 👍🏻
You are doing a service to the industry by pointing out issues on bikes. Manufactures will react to bad publicity on social media far more than an individual owners complaint. I find the dealers are the most guilty parties claiming to have never heard of any issues with what they sell. A good example would be the PV oil leak on 2020 model KTM tpi bikes. Almost everyone I know that bought one had the oil leak yet the dealer claimed to know nothing about it.
There are so many potential issues with TPI that I could understand a dealer not knowing about all of them... if they were a bit lazy. 😂
I owned a TPI, no issues. But then I didn’t abuse the machine or disassemble anything.
As a sales rep, I would also be inclined to doubt most issues until unequivocally proven - that’s not to say we don’t escalate things internally the moment we hear something, which we do. But to the customer from a rep standpoint, issues are fictional until proven that it’s an engineering or design fault. There are just to many variables and idiots out there that do stupid things and then blame the equipment.
Most TPI issues most likely stem from some sort of misuse - but that’s not to say that they couldn’t be designed better I.e to be more robust.
@@reubs91 I can agree that a lot of issues could be from misuse however the PV oil leak in 2020 has been well documented and proven. KTM even superseded the 3 part members back to the 2019 one piece design. Any dealer claiming to not know about that issue has their heads in the sand. You can see when you put the 2020 boot beside the 2019 one it's significantly smaller allowing the oil to pass through. You can see the comparison on my IG or just google it if you are interested. I will say my TPI was pretty flawless other than the oil leak.
Nephew is a plant mechanic. His TPI Kato seized. I wouldn't buy one and I'm a motorcycle mechanic by trade. Clearly they are running them too lean for emissions purposes.
I tend to agree on the lean issue. I spoke with two specialists who tested oil use at various revs and they were running as lean as 150:1 in some cases. It would seem KTM agrees as they have brought in the new 'extreme' map which uses quite a bit more oil.
Good summary Barry. As an owner of many European and some Japanese road and dirt bikes, I can say neglect by owners has far more impact on reliability than manufacturing. For me, enjoyment of the use of my bike improved by innovation has been worth far more than the vanilla flavoured performance from bike built the same way year after year with minor improvements, usually to save the manufacturer money.
Maintenance definitely helps a lot! And when looking at known issues, I try to rule that out. E.g. When Beta main bearings were first coming to light, I talked to mechanics to see if it was owners drowning their bikes, or pressure washing them and letting water in past the seals etc.
I had never heard of ANY issues with the highly dependable XR650L, until a friend warned me of the CDI failure. Being the guy that doesn't want to be the one holding everyone up I started carrying an aftermarket spare. Sure enough the used XR650L that I bought CDI went bad on a ride so I was prepared. Putting these issues in print based on other's failures can prevent a long walk back home. Keep em coming!
Great to hear, Terry. Always good to be prepared! Some brand loyal riders hate hearing about known issues but I've always preferred to know about them and get the word out there.
Myself and my sons and grandsons own Husky, Beta, Sherco, Honda, Suzuki. It gives us a great opportunity to compare them.
Once set up properly and making sure all fasteners are tightened properly and all bike are maintained, all have been great bikes.
Grew up on the magical Hondas of the 70's and 80's where reliability was king and performance somewhere else. Years and many bikes later I stumbled onto a Buell, talk about "known issues haha!) but the reality was I found a balance between near magical experiences with a chassis seemingly designed by the motorcycle gods and the reality that something would inevitably have to be fixed. Now twenty years later I'm on a Beta and find myself at times likening it to a Buell in many ways. For me at least the experience is worth the effort.
Good to hear, Michael! It can be a glass half full or half empty experience. For many of us, owning a performance bike with some quirky design issues can just be seen as some extra character lol. Whereas some owners will be infuriated at any kind of unreliability and opt for a Japanese model for stress-free riding.
I must be the lucky one. Most things I buy don’t have issues, but then I always meet someone who will tell me that my gearbox will go early or I will have issues with such and such component.
Yet to see issues that have not resulted from normal wear and tear or excessive use and exposure to overly harsh environment that’s resulted in failures. “Known issues” could stem from a large pool of people mishandling or having unrealistic expectations about the longevity of a product.
Always interesting to see people treat equipment the way they do and expect it to last. Most motorbikes are heavily value engineered these days and your getting quite a lot for a relatively cheap sum. If your thinking motorbikes are expensive, go look at an e-bike.
I doubt you are lucky, it's probably just statistics. E.g. Beta said their main bearing issue was only affecting about 5% of bikes. We had three Betas in our group that didn't fail over three years... which was the likely outcome given the statistics. There are plenty of known issues that aren't due to normal wear and tear... which is why they are calle 'known issues'. It's usually the manfacturer's issues, not the rider.
I ride a drz400e on tight singles and keep up with the lighter newer bikes and after 11500kms it's never been opened once and never left me stranded
You're right. It's all psychological. People see the bike as an extension of themselves - Especially if it's a boutique. I think this is because the desire to be very different is deeply personal so any weaknesses or limitations of the bike is seen as an attack on themselves. I accept with boutique bikes that I am very unlikely to get an honest review of it's issues or performance from the owner (My friends with TM's for instance always had to change the pistons by 25hrs to avoid disaster and the only Beta issues I hear of is from your channel despite knowing people who own them). Owners of more 'utility orientated' bikes are a little more honest (i.e WR/T7), but you still get pride influencing the info. I notice top riders aren't as guilty of this - either it does its job and makes them look good or they find something else that does.
Very true, Anrew. I find it fascinating how much of a role psychology plays in almost every aspect of dirt bike ownership and the actual riding!
This is known as Honda wankeritis, ever since the 750/4 came out.
Confirmation bias, or the tendency to search for information that confirms what we already believe.
I appreciate the wide variety of both pros and cons of all the bikes within your videos.
Cheers! I'm always fascinated by the psychology behind our sport!
Love the KTM free dog ad, so you don't have to walk home alone. LOL
VERY much 'On Point'!
Well said Barry 👍
Thank you kind sir! Let me know when you are up for a ride....
Every bike i've owned has come with a list of known issues. If they go wrong you're expecting it, if not it's a bonus.
Amen
My 1995 TT350's fuel tank leaks in 4 spots. I have been searching for a recall notice to no avail. They reckon plastic can take thousands of years to deteriorate but my tank only lasted 27 years! Solution: I have found if I don't put fuel in it it don't leak at all! Love your vids! Cheers!
Great to hear it's still going! A friend had one years ago but the top end detonated... she said it was a bit of a weakness with the TTR?
If people wouldn't talk about known issues i wouldn't be able to fix my dirt bike, thankfully there are a lot of forums about my problem.
I agree that having a problem from the factory of a bike burning a light bulb every 50 hours is probably not even worth the hustle but engine problems, chassis problems and others that can leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere are matters that everyone should take seriously !! Even if you have the same bike but yours runs good you also should talk about it !!
That's my philosophy too, Alex. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst! If you know what the potential known issues are, it's less likely you'll be caught off guard.
2009 KTM 450 EXC - used oil from day one.
I just check it before every ride and topped it up.
It uses more oil than a 2 stroke. But it’s till going.
Oh - and it doesn’t blow smoke.
Strange! Is that a well known 450EXC issue, Orlando? I wonder if it was ridden too softly during break in perhaps? I hear the rings and/or bore can glaze a bit?
@@crosstrainingenduro - I may have been a bit soft on it - a guy I know had the same issue with his 530 (2009) - he got it checked out and the workshop discovered the bore was slightly oval.
They fixed it under warrantee.
I don’t think I needed this video, but I enjoyed every second! Thanks!!!
Oh man. I did no research before buying my KLR, just remembered hearing all of the hype (for what it is) over the years. Then the doohickey, thermobob, ungreased suspension pivots, head bearings, "necessary" carb mods. Now I'm embarrassed about how much time and money has been sunk into it but finally it's running correctly. Time for a $850 shock...
We are lucky they are such cheap bikes to begin with, Dan. 😂
the only bike ive owned that suffered from a know issue was my sachs madass 125 that liked to spit out its clutch seal and drip oil everywhere. made it super fun when it happened on a rainy day. bit of drift juice on the rear tyre to test out reaction time, haha.
I always appreciate your efforts to make reviews as diplomatic and reality-based as possible. I'm currently strugging with how to best communicate the issues I'm having with the Motoz Hybrid Arena Gummy rear tire. If I run it lower than 10 psi and hit edges at 15+mph, it hucks the back end all over the place. Everyone thinks I'm crazy and it appears I'm the only person who has this problem....never had a similar problem with any other tire I've used.
I went through my boutique tyre phase years ago and I had all the weirdest problems. This is why you mostly see enthusiasts rather than top level riders using them (Unless sponsored). I was riding with a friend who had been convinced on a cheater shinko ? and had to say, you've lost all your corner speed cause it doesnt break traction and always wants to stand the bike up, but your shinko buddies would never tell you that.
Very balanced, rational and intelligent content, mixed with a bit of humour. Great stuff!
Personally, I farking hate it when stuff in general behaves unreliably! So I tend to do as much research as I can to increase the likelihood of satisfactory purchases as much as possible. That tends to work really good for me, but of course there's no real guarantee. Everything can break😅
I agree and do likewise. It’s also why I’m apprehensive to be an early adopter. I’d rather avoid new products until they have a track history of reliability. It’s also why I took my time getting Covid vaccination! 😆
Totally with you on that approach! Just put the legwork in with your research, then hope for the best, prepare for the worst!
My XR650l has never had a CDI problem. I would guess that somebody already replaced it or modified it tho. I have heard stories from every guy I've talked to who owned one. I also broke the subframe on mine. The countershaft sprocket and rear wheel bearings wear super fast with no cush hub as well. As far as the valves, the oil cooler doesn't help as much as keeping the bike moving. I think people burn valves out of the 650L when they leave them idle in traffic for 15 minutes or dig them into the dust on a hot day and rev the engine for a while when trying to get it unstuck. Slow, rocky hill climbs can make it heat up too.
That said, I love my 650L. I have put something like 15k miles on it now and it still runs great. No transmission or valve issues yet. I do expect the 650 to die a terrible death, though. I ride it HARD sometimes.
It's a real shame they stopped importing the XR650L into Australia in 2008 for some unknown reason. I think I'd prefer it to the DR650 for our style of riding. It is strange they never put a cush drive hub on it. Cheaper and lighter I guess?
@@crosstrainingenduro I think the lack of a cush drive was due to a narrower swingarm. My 250L has a much more substantial bend to make room for the thicker hub. Warp9 has adapted some form of cush hub that you can get with a wheel for a respectable $500+ 😮. There were several ways to keep the cush hub, but I would speculate that manufacturing cost is the reason they ultimately canned that part. After the 250l was done in 1996, Honda had no dirtbikes with cush hubs at all. To put one on the 650L would mean keeping open a whole series of part numbers that they just didn't want to make. I hear a DR650 wheel might fit, bit it's a 17". The NX650 might fit as well, but I have never confirmed that. I might buy another wheel to try machining some sort of cush system into it. I think it would be great to get more than one oil change out of a set of wheel bearings.
I would guess they don't import the XR for the same reason the Japanese manufacturers refuse to innovate. They don't really care what customers want. As long as they sell a couple billion 125cc commuters, they don't have to make anything else. The contrast is India's KTM, which bends over backwards to throw every new suspension improvement and vehicle type at a wall and see what sticks. When the Indians get complacent, they will pass the torch to the Chinese. Then maybe when the Chinese are fairly competent we can see a sweet Mexican-built 650cc Baja unicorn bike 😆
Some real food for thought there on where the industry might be in coming decades!
We’re all just waiting for you to get the dang Sherco already!
I reckon I'm heading that way... 😁
You won't regret
They only problem I’ve had with mine is the previous owner didn’t do work on it. But it is a 98 cr250 lol
I had a 97 CR250 for many years, the bike is fine, the airbox though is setup for racing and not woods, major dirt intrusion problems there.
@@Kingsoupturbo I love them mate had one back in 99 it was great in the woods so much bottom end power thst Is why I got one now as it was what I use to ride
@@justincoull2166 Its pretty exciting! I had endless problems with mud getting into that airbox and the tall 1st gear wasn't the best for creeping around! (even with a giant flywheel weight) I reshimmed the forks and did every woods mod you could do, in the end my friends WR250 was so much better for what we did, but the CR was more exciting!
I've got a known issue with like every bike I have ever owned. Poor underwater performance. I've contacted suzuki, ktm, and honda and they all refused to take me seriously. Every time the seat of my bike touches water, the whole thing dies, then I gotta change the oil, dry the air filter, make sure the battery didn't short, it's a huge hassle. My hope is that one day in the future at least one of these manufacturers will address the issue.
I have that same issue with every bike I have owned.Also the pipes always get smashed but I blame that on my dog.
The Varg might crack it!
Electric bikes might be the answer. I've seen vids of them being ridden underwater. But possibly the seals might not be so good after a year or two of riding!
I think an important categorization here is necessary between race/high intensity-frequency of use and the opposite. It makes a big difference on when and/or, if at all, the issues emerge..
Good point, on the other hand, if I'm looking to buy
a bike that has frequently reported bearing failures,
mostly occurring under extreme
conditions, I will look at buying a different bike.
When something major goes wrong with my bikes, after a brief swear session, I just suck it up and break out the wrenches. No sense going into denial, blaming or bitching, gotta fix it for the next ride!!
People who complain have obviously not grown up in the 70,80’s riding shite bikes with drum brakes, no suspension, sticking throttles and kill switches that actually try to kill you. All the new stuff is pretty amazing in my 41 years of riding opinion and the $1100 I just spent on my Husky’s AER forks was totally worth it haha 😂
I agree, Brian! We are spoiled for choice nowadays. And all the bikes are better than 95% of us will ever be lol. But I still like to do vids about known issues because no one else seems to be doing it.
@@crosstrainingenduro it’s a great topic for sure and it can really help inform people about what’s going on and where to plonk down their hard earned $. Other than main bearing failures and some crazy sounding TPI stuff most issues seem negligible imo. Unfortunately the motorcycle industry doesn’t consult me about what we really want. Give me a new Japanese 2 stroke like the euros are making and 300/350cc (4t) Japanese off road bikes. A new fuel injected XR650r dual sport. More light weight 500-700 dual sport options. Seats that massage your plums as you ride etc
Completely agree, Brian. Japanese two strokes? Yes please! Along with all my riding buddies, I would ditch my eurotrash in a heartbeat if this happened.
I had an 05 WR450 for about 15 years. Thing had shocking suspension. Couldn't work out what was wrong, rebuild the forks, changed oil, springs rates blah blah. Rang Terry Hayes and asked him about it one day and he said "yeah you and everyone else that has one has these problems, buy another bike" so I bought an 08 model and that was it. Thing is as boring as a camry and as heaby as one but it all works.
I had an 06 model, Ryan... the last of the steel frame models. The suspension seemed fine. But I think they really hit the mark years later with the KYB SSS.
@@crosstrainingenduro yeah but i am not a giant like you Barry
I think knowing there is a potential issue in a model and one day finding out your bike is one of the minority that suffers from said known issue, hurts more than an issue surprising you out of the blue. But I prefer to research and be prepared.... at the potential detriment of my feelings 🤗
KLR needs a thingamajig fix.
Early DRZs broke cam chain tensioners and trashed valves. Ignition bolts came loose.
Other bikes need this and that fixed and an exhaust and suspension upgrade.
That's all ok apparently.
In a KTM manual they SUGGEST checking the valves every xx hours..... MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE... MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE!!! 😁😁😁🤦🤦🤦
A couple anecdotes from my life: Beta Italia may not be responsive, but holy hell is Beta USA the opposite. Hands down the very best company I've ever dealt with! As far as KTM being better...maybe sometimes. Took five years to offer a solution/warranty/recall on their Magura clutch slave problems, and I suspect only the threat of legal action made it happen. I've got a few bikes from each company and love them all, so no bias against them.
Unfortunately in the USA much depends on litigation gearing. A big, well established company can afford expensive lawyers and also to keep dragging things out which most consumers cannot. A smaller company is more concerned about the costs of litigation and the risk of brand damage.
It varies dramatically from country to country, depending on the national distributor in most cases. What you say about the USA is what I keep hearing. But in Australia, Beta support has been pretty poor in recent years (it totally sucks in the UK!), whereas KTM Australia offers pretty good support.
I have a 2019 Husqvarna te300i owned since brand new and had starting issues after about a year, A mate and I tested everything and figured the ecu shat itself installed get ecu and could start bike but after a week had same issue of bike just turning over but not firing up. bit the bullet and took it to Husqvarna turns out the main wiring harness got water in it and corroded all the wires... at least thet get ecu fixed the bogging issues at 1/8 throttle, now she's a weapon!!!🤘😝🤘
Glad you got it sorted in the end. Personally I hate those hard-to-diagnose problems... unless it's happened within the warranty period and the dealer has to fix it!
The only problems so far with a my 2019 300 xcw 6d was the wiring by the neck, it had cracked and caused me to blow a fuse on the side of a mountain, luckily it was only about 15 mins in and I could coast back down.
When I pulled the wiring loom apart,I saw two cracked wire housings, the wires were still intact so I used liquid tape to seal them, then electrical taped everything back up and re routed so everything ran straighter.
The power valve cover leaks a bit and it did have a slight bog at 0-15% throttle
The reeds were pretty much toast after 60 hrs and some of the graphics came off first ride🤣
I ended up with a GET ecu some v4r reeds and and a head and it turned this thing into a monster.. its crisp 🥓🥓
I did hear a few years ago KTM changed over to cheaper less reliable reeds and lots of guys were complaining about them.
My klx260s has a really well known issue..... an absolutely pedestrian stock motor🛵. But it always seems put a smile on my face.
Simple fun😉
You have to love rock solid Japanese models like that, Peter! Our Canadian cousins reported that... they bought 20 Honda models as their fleet and not a single problem over a full summer's riding. Previously they had a Beta fleet. Every single bike had at least one problem. The mechanics were working late into the night trying to get them running again for the next day. 🤔
It must be nice to have all these problems mention in the video. Beeing broke and wanting to own and ride bikes, all my shit is alway braking and needing rebuilding and parts changing.... But hey, in my case, i love just as much to wrench on my bikes as i do riding them. The feeling of fixing a problem, or rebuilding a complete engine and experiance it firing up and running perfect is just pure magic in my eyes.
I am a hopeless mechanic. I have only done one two stroke top end and the relief I felt when it fired up was incredible lol.
Estoy de acuerdo con tu postura: la información debe saberse, y los fallos también.
También creo que las marcas japonesas en general innovan poco.
Prefiero marcas investigan y desarrollan mas.
El problema es cuando te toca a vos el producto con “defecto” 🤪
Saludos desde Argentina 🇦🇷
Thanks Martin! My Spanish sucks but I mostly understood that. 😁
@@crosstrainingenduro 😉👍🏻
I had the ol' leaky base gasket on my 2000 DR. Lots of greasy splooge on the front of my engine for a couple months before I started in on fixing it. Let me tell you it was a bitch and a half to scrape that gasket off (no joke took 6 hours of effort). I also had the countershaft seal leak pretty bad but I'm not sure if it quantified as the dreaded "pop out."
I go out of the way to sort the known issues. Not for anxiety reasons, but because I'm hard on my bikes. If there is a weak link I will probably tax it heavily. If you ride hard (or like a moron, like me) it's best to maintenance hard as well.
Forewarned is fore armed, Jensen! I'm a lot easier on my bikes nowadays, but I don't want them breaking down in the middle of nowhere and spending two days recovering the bike.
Most of the problems is they cost too much they're only small problems to fix even the major stuff so no big deal just lower the price and lets all have fun God-bless everyone
I think some people can get weird because they don't have an experienced familiarity with machinery, like say a farmer would. cars don't provide the practical machinery experience any more, for instance where men of my father's generation would have some familiarity under a bonnet, my grandfather would need to be able to work throttle, clutch and choke simultaneously to even get the car moving on bald tires he just changed himself.
My Experience: Husaberg No issues (Stolen), Ktm: Start motor, water pump Beta: Corroded ECU, Start motor, Main bearings, Oil pump Yamaha: None.. After owning and riding Beta for 3-4 years it was time for a more reliable bike. (Yamaha) Great bike so far but feels very slow/tired/heavy compared to Beta but.. Yamaha perhaps have the worst start engine I have been part of. Had way to many issues with my 2 Betas so was time for me to buy a more reliable bike or quiet.. :)
Just do a full Exhaust and a TSP head kit and it literally transforms the bike. A heavy flywheel weight and a Lectron don't hurt either. My YZ250x is a Monster now. And shit, if I ever get bored of the Power I'll get the 325 jug. Game over
It's a real shame Beta haven't come to grips with quality control. Known issues are understandable in the early days, but new ones simply keep cropping up with Beta. 🤔
@@crosstrainingenduro Biggest disappointment is lack of interest/help from Beta on common issues and apparently they are not familiar with issues above in Sweden/Nordics.
What kind of Yamaha?
@@cumnmrmptaaa4234 WR250F 21
Hilarious my friend!
You nailed every Beta owner on Thumpertalk 🤣
It is my sacred duty as an attention whore... even if it's all going over my head too lol. More fun and games over on a certain TT post I see. 😊
@@crosstrainingenduro I haven't been on TT in a while. Seems Iike it's dying a slow death after B&B sold it. Mods there are old artifacts 😆
It's a real shame forums seem to be dying that slow death everywhere. Social media that caters for tiny attention spans seems to be the flavour of the millenium nowadays. 😢
@@crosstrainingenduro This is true. It's sad because forums used to offer a great deal of quality information and sharing amongst the riding community. Social Media are just bites and glimpses without much depth.
701 enduro my2019: i just fix and improve when possible oem-parts that fails. handlebar-clamps > phds; pissing cooler > replace with new part-number-one (keep the old one for repair at your local cooler-shop); clutch output-cylinder > change to sigutech & co.; too weak suspension-springs > loose 30 kgs or change the springs; filling up the fuel tank > practice!; too long 1st gear > practice, drive faster or change sprocket;... andsoonandsoon...
my habit:
- don't cry: fix and improve things (not main-bearings and similar, of course)!
- don't cuddle with the manufacturer: write that email to stefan pierer and ask him if he could not arrange for this long-standing issue to be resolved by his very capable development department according to the rules of mechanical engineering? (hey!: i received an answer by husqvarna and in the meantime they replace the part);
- therapy: grab your 1992 husaberg fe501 and learn how to start it. then ride. then you realize: we are in heaven.
Great to hear they responded! I've always been puzzled they didn't stick with the original LC4 design and just keep updating that... get rid of the vibrations, slap on fuel injection. They probably wouldn't have got the outright power of the 690/701 but it was a great platform. I did own a 690 for a few months but I did my research a bit too late and discovered all the potential issues which could have left me stranded in remote areas (I'm a hopeless mechanic).
I ride a 2009 klx250sf love it can't wheelie 😁
But I have owned a coolster 125cc 14"f 12"r for 2 years putbike blast im 32 🤣 only issue tiny airfilters that are very exposed
My worst experience is with a 2021 gasgas ec 250i
The powervalve completely shattered because the crankshaft seal broke and it carbonized so much that the PV got stuck.
Metal pieces from the powervalve fell in the engine and well....you know
Ouch! How did you go with a warranty claim? At least in Australia, they seem to recognise there are issues with the TPI system and often will provide a 'goodwill' warranty beyond the usual period.
@@crosstrainingenduro unfortunately i had to pay for everything
I’m hearing a slight but new whining on deceleration in 3rd gear on my DR650. Changed oil last night with 4000 miles on that oil, 10,000 on the 2009 bike. Still love it, no other issues. Researching symptoms of the known but infrequent 3rd gear issues with the DR. Any insight?
I can only repeat what I've heard online, Tom. Most say the whining is unrelated to third gear failures, so just ignore it. I hope it's true!
@@crosstrainingenduro thanks Barry, I’m on it!
Get a TW200 if you're a worry wart. You'll never be let down - except when it comes to speed.
I'd love to ride one eventually!
Ignorance is bliss, maintain your machine as you should & odds are you'll never have the experience you were supposed have. Its similar to a placebo effect, plant the seed of a premature catastrophic failure & a concerned owner will almost always find a flaw proving thier concerns are justified.
Sounds about right! So often a 'known issue' might only affect 5 to 30% of riders. So you can just ignore it and chances are you will be fine!
Nothing is truer than brand loyalty. I swear it's rare to find someone that's riding a bike that's just "good". It's always better than everyone else's bikes (who ride a different manufacturer).
Personally I think all the current dirt bikes are way better than 95% of us will ever be, Luke... so just choose your favourite colour. 😂
If you are mechanically able, or have deep pockets for repairs, or ride in a group with lots of help if you run into trouble, reliability (real or perceived) might not be the most important criterion. But if you ride alone for instance, then it's completely different; and you'll stick with the brand you trust the most, and we all know it's not European.
Very good point. If I was into riding alone I suspect I would only ride a Japanese model. The eurotrash is pretty good nowadays but I'd go for the most bulletproof every time.
I bought my motorcycle used (very), and all it's known issues seem to have been taken care of in its first 6 years of life. Either by warranty repair, factory recall, or astute previous owner modification. Lucky me. I do have one known model issue which is an electronic fuel sensor that loves to fail. The factory has extended the replacement warranty on this part only until 2026 I think? So far my 2009 bike has had 6 of them put in. I guess I will keep letting them replace it until they wont, then look for a better solution.
I'm not that much against any brand but rather country .. I had Italjet in age of 9 and later Benelli 125 those two created the fact that I'm not getting anything with two wheels or engine from Italy. Ever. Same goes to China. Austria still has my trust even though they have outsourced a lot of parts.
And of course now Benelli is owned by a Chinese company who make the bikes in China but want them to sound Italian.
@@crosstrainingenduro 😅
I don’t know if this would be a good video idea but I’ve always been curious: Are Japanese bikes cheaper to own than European ones? Comparing similar models and looking at the cost of parts that may break over time (clutch casing, piston head, clutch/brake lever, a radiator etc.).
Honda and yamaha and kawasaki suzuki have huge aftermarkets. More competition so prices are cheaper.
@@AboxoroxRoxursox - KTM has arguably better aftermarket support these days. Due to the fact that there are so many out there, and that a lot of parts fit across many of the models (unlike other brands that seem to redesign parts like footpegs and sprockets with every model).
There’s nearly no comparison as only Yamaha shows up. ‘Similar enduro models’ are limited to 2 WRF models and their euro equivalents (Beta, Sherco, TM, KTM group).
Really hard to say, it would depend on the models being looked at. And it all will probably be trumped by an owner who is into maintenance and not abusing the bike!
It's hard to tell if there are any common denominators among the people that are experiencing failures. Are the riders with corrosion problems riding in wet conditions and not so hot at maintenance? Are the people with failing main bearings wringing the piss out of their motors? I never have trouble since I only ride at low speeds and hate to get wet. My Beta is the best. it is never going to break
We use anecdotal evidence as a sign of potential problems... then go to the relevant mechanics, dealers and even head offices to find out what is really happening. Main bearings were absolutely a manufacturing error, Beta's head office admitted this. They have also said corrosion is a known issue, it's not due to to wet conditions.
I would guess excessive side loads on the bearings when they are pressing them into the case maybe. Has the main bearing failure ever occurred on a 200rr or the evo trials models?
Head office won't give the exact reason, but it is the most likely reason. Only affected the RR250, RR300 Xtrainer models.
How the brand reacts is key for me. Treat me like a peasant, you've lost me for life
100%! If the manufacturer stands behind their product and provides support then it's all just a minor inconvenience if your engine fails... hopefully.
The end user is the largest variable any bike design will face.
Very true...
I can confirm that 2007 YZ250's have a serious design flaw. The rider tends to come loose and slide off the back under hard acceleration - be warned!!
I have seen a class action lawsuit from riders for the calluses that develop on knuckles from being dragged on the ground too. Elongated arms are not fun.
I disagree with the tail light comment. JUST because it becomes a slippery slope. The big three auto makers did this in the 70's and again staring in the mid 2000s. They start to pinch on little things like lights ( but charge more) then very quickly they have whole harness failure because they saved on wire but you're left with trash. The upside is usually it opens the door for others I'm thinking Toyota and Tesla respectfully.
My Suzuki RMX450Z does not have any well documented issues, other than maybe running lean from the factory since its a green sticker legal choked up enduro bike. Mine has been great for 5 years. I'm fine with my "old" EFI and electric start with backup kick starter bike, the supposed lack of innovation doesn't bother me one bit.
I’ve always wanted to give those a shot! It’s not a good seller here in the United States but you can pick them up 2nd hand for HALF of what the newer Japanese 450’s are going for. At that point, you can ride it for 2 years, keep it in good shape, sell what you paid for! 👍
I don’t think there is enough of them for there to be any kind of trending done to find known issues! Besides I would hope they could get it right after making the same basic package for as long as Suzuki tends to! 😜🤣
@@gpaull2 the RMX had been sold worldwide since 2010, if there was issues with them I'm sure somebody would have complained about it on the internet lol. Hey if it ain't broke don't fix it.
@@stupidmoto - thanks for validating half my point…it’s been unchanged for a long time! Just because it’s been available doesn’t mean that people bought them or that many were ever made. It’s been a mythical creature in my corner of the riding universe.
Yes the sample size is an issue here. My experience is, I've known 4 people that owned them - 2 found them very reliable and wracked up alot of miles and 2 had electrical issues they could never resolve and had to sell them very early on. Also suzuki is pretty well known for weak cylinder linings and soft clutch baskets and valves. Very common to need a cylinder relining when doing a top end. The KTM XC4 motor was plagued with problems in 2008, but the odd one still managed 20,000km without an issue.
Half these complaints are from people who work at dealers. Probably salesmen. Italian bikes, not for me. I remember my brothers mates Ducati's , many, with blown main bearings, in the '70's. Famous for poor quality everything.
I like Japanese bikes. Haven’t had any problems in all the decades I’ve owned them, at least none that were the bikes’ fault. Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki. No issues here with many bikes and many years.
The Traction eRag guys were telling me they had zero problems with a Honda fleet over an entire summer of riding... other than damage caused by riders. With a certain Italian brand two years before? Every single bike had mechanical or electrical issues that kept the mechanical team working late into the night. 🤔
Got a DB10 Chinese pit bike brand new that broke the transmssion gear and cracked the case after 3 months and maybe 10 hours, now that's junk! Couldn't imagine spending 10k then the engine seizes...
2019 KTM 125 XC W, idling jet block seal failure. 😞
KTM’s reaction…..it was designed that way. 😱
What that the dealer, Chris? Or the message from the national distributor? The former is understandable if you have a lazy dealer who hates doing warranty claims. But it's really bad when the distributor doesn't want to provide customer support!
@@crosstrainingenduro okay it was the dealer, but I imported JD Jetting seal (import cost more than seal), it worked. Asked if KTM South Africa would refund me (a matter of principle), answer was no. 🥲
I was willing to return the bike, my son (16 years old) said no. It turned out to be a nice bike. 🤷🏼♂️
I ride a 2013 BMW F800GS (111000 km’s), will I replace it with a KTM? I don’t think so‼️
That's a shame. The level of support varies a lot from country to country. E.g. In Australia they will usually do a goodwill warranty if it's definitely an issue with the bike, not caused by the rider. Or at least they say they will...
Everything in your video hurt my feelings, I guess I'll give my bike way so I don't have any problems.
......or go ride and hope for the best and see what I break on the bike by my gumby riding ability. 😎
You can join the class action lawsuit against this channel Brian. Several thousand viewers are suing us for dodgy information, hurt feelings and auditory assault (the Aussie accent). 😁 You can also lodge complaints with our complaints department! ruclips.net/video/0ktVedQrBvo/видео.html
That why I drive the most reliable Enduro bike there is a Honda 450r 🤣. No I really do 😳 at the age of 48. I make my buddy put a oz of oil in his gas tank on his Bata.
I’d rather have the information. Forewarned is forearmed.
👍😎
Starting to get the fever fellas. Won't be long now. Your bike is as good as you maintain it 👍
I plead guilty to #4 Ha! Long live the XRR and to the scrap pile of history with all others :)
Thanks for the vids
Amen! Long live the mighty XRs!
Well, some issues come from bad mechanics. I have seen so much bad wrenching over the years. What is a manual? Naaah I know better and tighten the bolt by feel. Then the destroy the thread and so on.
I have seen to many DIY videos with "experts" using the wrong tools, and the crowd cheer them and share the misinformation online... In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed is the king...
TRUTH!!!
This is a really good point! I was just saying in another comment that when riders start reporting a 'known issue' online it might just be abuse and poor maintenance causing it. When TPI problems were emerging, many owners with problem-free bikes were saying it was probably due to poor maintenance... and while I'm sure it did occur, I did speak with specialists to confirm there were actually design problems before I began reporting common problems with the TPI system. Ditto for Beta main bearing failures.
Ktm 20 20 300tpi, seaze in 142hours. Cps 145hours.
A pity to hear that. If they weren't raced, the carb models could easily go to 200 hours before a rebuild. But the two stroke specialists told me they recommend 100 hour rebuilds on the TPI models due to less lubrication.
all bikes manufactures suck big time but I love their products as long as they don't get me stranded :)
Even if my bike will never have any of these issues I much rather have that information available just in case it happens to me.
I agree!
The Zero owners group is just like this. There are known issues, but if anyone asks and there are answers, then the usual suspects jump on and pour shit on anyone who talks about the issues.
So true! You get the sensible guys who really want to know about potential issues... then the brand loyal diehards who hate hearing about problems. 😂
CRANK CASE PRESSURE SENSOR tpi bikes
What in the Star Wars is that plant/animal at 3:13?!
Strangler vine I think, Warren! They grow up other trees then eventually kill them and become trees themselves...
@@crosstrainingenduro we have a problem with English Ivy where I live, it’s relentless, but it doesn’t look like something out of a nightmare!
My outlook has been that everything has a problem here and there, a lack of features and innovation can be seen as a problem just as much as lack of reliability. I prefer Japanese, but I totally get the argument for eurotrash superiority. As a friend of mine put it years ago, "They are all pieces of sh*t, you just gotta pick the flavor of shi*t you like best"
😂 That sums it up perfectly!
I'm first!
I had a drz, it was the worst experience of my life, redone the engine 2 times completely and every time some huge shit would happen, now with the 701 everyone has the opinion that it's reliable but no it's shit but a good bike overall at the same time
Rubbish everyone knows drz engines never break down 😉
@@Gg_gorilla_bikes Mine did every 500 Kms, and I changed the oil every time it broke
@@neggo4290 Don't believe it ! Heresy! I bought my drz in the Jurassic era, have put 5 millions miles on it and it is still as reliable as the Italian railway system! You must have used Rotella instead of proper motor-bicycle engine oil.
@@Gg_gorilla_bikes i used motul, and the Italian railway system fails constantly
@@neggo4290 M8 ....I was joking! I thought the reference to the Italian Railway system was a giveaway. I'm assuming you are American? Sorry should have put a "WARNING - THIS IS A JOKE" line at the bottom for our North American brothers / sisters. Lol! PS My mate's Italian grandfather told him that the only time the railway system ran on time was when Mussolini was leading the country. Bring back the fascists! (That was a joke too)
no chance get back JP enduro bike market
there is advertising and counter advertising :) everything breaks down and must be maintained. I don't think you have to pay attention to factory failures. use the instruction manual
True... in most cases. But there have definitely been engines seizing at low hours with the TPI bikes. And main bearings were failing on Beta two strokes at less than 10 hours in some cases. 😢
This goes for a lot of things. I know somebody who believes covid isn't real (YES IM SERIOUS) because he hasn't met anyone who got it. Just because it hasn't happened to you or you haven't seen somebody that it's happened to doesn't mean it isn't real and this goes for everything!!
It's a bizarre approach, Ian. Possibly it's 'healthy scepticism' taken way too far? "I have to see it myself before I believe it." 😂 But the funny thing is the same people will believe any old garbage on the internet... IF it aligns with their own belief system.
Did you used to be a scientist? I only ask because I appreciate your understanding of statistics and rationality.
No but I'm a science nerd for sure, Houston. Cosmology, physics, biology, psychology and philosophy... love it!
@@crosstrainingenduro That's awesome to hear! I'm a PhD student at UC Davis, so I love science too. Also love your content. So helpful to my riding while being funny as hell too!
Cool! My current theory is mini-black holes are causing me to crash so I'm blaming CERN's large hadron collider for causing them. 😢
@@crosstrainingenduro 😂
KTMs are known to empty wallets
I suffer from the recurring issue of the rider always being shit
There's a lot of that going around, Andy... especially in my little riding group 😂
Another top video; thank you. I would like to add another macro-category top your list of reaction types to solid/ critical reviews... fuck-tards! There's a lot of fuck-tards out there that don't understand statistic or rigor. Keep up the good work 👍