Why Mormons Don't Make Sense w/ Trent Horn
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Full Episode: • Trent's Real Name is T...
As part of their discussion on double standards Protestants apply to Catholicism, Matt and Trent touch on Mormonism. Trent gives one objection he has: Where did all this in the book of Mormon take place?
Trent's Podcast: / thecounseloftrent
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As a scripture-ignorant teenager, although I was baptized as an evangelical, I had let a pretty girl talk me into getting "baptized" in the Mormon church, I eventually left and started attending an Anglican Church. But while Mormon theology is wrong, they do alot in regards to charity, and they also were the ones that got me to realize Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are untenable positions to hold......fast forward 10 years, and Im joining the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church next Easter ❤️
God bless you, Brad, on this Journey.
Ad majorem Dei gloriam 🔥❤️🇻🇦
The LDS church is the true faith.
@@troyterry6919 😂😂😂
Based off of the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church I’m assuming that means you found orthodoxy? (We say this in our prayers daily) if you’re taking about Rome, I would suggest you dig deeper and look into orthodoxy. We are both from the original origins of apostolic succession, however the Patriarch of Rome who claimed infallibility (without any authorization or discussion with the ecumenical council, of which all are viewed equally), who changed the liturgy, and more. Orthodoxy has had very little change over thousands of years and remains true to this day.
Thank you for acknowledging that “weirdness” is not a good reason to believe something is false. Disagree with Doctrine because it doesn’t line up with Scripture, reason, or apostolic tradition…but Christianity IS weird to worldly ears. Believing Jesus is risen is weird (albeit true!) so we need to have a better answer than “I don’t like their funny habits.” Also, thank you Trent, for your work in apologetics. I came into the Church over 10 years ago and Catholic Answers had a large bit to do with that! God is good.
Matt - I appreciate the way you respectfully discuss my faith, even though you have your reservations. I love your podcast and what you stand for. My wife worked with you in the anti-pornography movement and has nothing but great things to say. Keep up the good work! God bless.
As a mormon I'm highly offended...
That I was taken in by Joseph Smith and the more I learn about the troublinh history and incoherent theology of Mormonism.
I'm seriously looking into Orthodoxy and Catholicism as a result.
Thanks for what you do. Mormons are the genuinely nicest people. Don't be too hard on them but help them see the truth.
Have a relationship with Christ whether lds is the true church or not. A relationship with Christ is way more important than the church it’s self. remember at the end of the Book of Mormon there was no church just a man with a relationship with Christ. But may God lead you in the right path
@@Suopt312look up the ages of j.s. Sexual partners and the lie he told the youngest one to convince her it’s ok
Same bro. Was baptized Cath this year after being born and raised Mormon for 33 years.
I feel bad for the people still trapped or blissfully unaware inside Mormonism but I hate that cult so much it's unreal. Pray for our deluded homies there to embrace the true faith and become our brothers and sisters in God's actual church
@@Suopt312Catholics literally teach the same thing about salvation being possible to non-baptized. Mormons pretend that is an exclusively Mormon doctrine lmao
@@Suopt312? Why serve a mission for a religion you are not sure of if you have to teach others to follow a religion your not sure of just saying? maybe study about it truths claims before you do and definitely check out Orthadoxy
Latter Day Saint listener here! I've always appreciated your intellectually fair and honest approach. Despite the criticism of some of our doctrine, I felt it was done respectfully and with an honest desire for truth and edification (not to tear down or villainize)
Keep it up guys!
Ethan, thanks for your positive comment :-) I wish you never stop looking for the Truth :-)
There are many glaring holes in Mormonism, the least of which are doctrinal. The most significant hole is that there is no foundation to any of what should be provable claims such as the historical claims. The God of the Bible which Mormons claim to have come from has always been a God of proof coupled with faith. That God might expect people to take some of the things on faith but not the most basic like where events happened. The only place where Mormons can claim to have "proof" of historical claims, for example, is the Bible itself. It's here that everything your religion stands for falls apart. Even if someone is willing to take every principle or article of faith or doctrine of the Mormon Church by faith there is no way that the "God of the universe" would expect people to do so without at least some foundation on which to build. Catholics have more ground to stand on in their faith in Jesus and claims. Mormonism has no ground to stand on.
@@bebravebestrongbetrue7420
"Catholics have more ground to stand on... Mormonism has no ground to stand on"
Agree to disagree, but thank you for the comment!
@@OfficialRaddeck Thank you my man!! Always searching haha
@@ethanf.237 , what do you think about the archeological debate they mentioned near the end of the video? Even some of the most hostile critics of Christianity concede places mentioned in the Bible exist. No one except for Mormons believe places mentioned in the Book of Mormon regarding the Americas exist, and even the Mormons who believe they exist don't agree where the places actually are with other Mormons.
These guys make sense.
They must not be Mormon.
Not really.
@phillipcook3430 that's the best that you have?
I live in downtown Salt Lake City and do appreciate having the LDS church here to provide balance to the woke and progressive tendencies of many in the city.
They’ll flip on gay marriage some day. They’re rooted in man made nonsense.
Let's hope they can continue to withstand the headwinds of wokism and leftist politics!
@@brettneville2351 I sure hope we do.
Stop saying "lds"??? that's fake attempt to sidetrack yourselves. Your (real) name is mormon even smith said it that he is a mormon and founder of mormonism the kullltt. Satanist scam kulltttt.
I just moved away from SLC. The city itself is getting very "woke". It's like there are two dimensions somewhat coexisting. I was never Mormon but I noticed the ex-mormons are kind of the worst lol
As a Latter-day Saint, I appreciate your respectful approach. I would hope that a respectful and intellectually honest LDS conversation on Catholicism would be as level-headed.
I'm afraid you think he is giving Mormonism some credulity. No...what is amazing is how like Scientologists Mormons are and how the emptiness and falsity isn't obvious! It's like an American version of the cargo cult...which actually has more of a basis than Mormonism.
Come to the one true Church of Jesus Christ which existed 1800 years before the Mormon Church.
Just watched caught the gist of this show. As a traditional Catholic- if there is such thing since we all should be traditional- I have watched and ran across many Mormons. I do concur that they are generally charitable and closely knit as families. This is something admirable and we all need to look up to
Mormon here. I very much appreciate that Horn actually knows a bit about the different attempts made to place Book of Mormon geography by our own apologists/scholars. He should know though that the vast majority of the most educated of them place in in Mesoamerica. If anyone is interested in seeing the best case we can make for that, see Brant Gardner, _Traditions of the Fathers: The Book of Mormon as History_ published in 2015.
Is there any archaeological, linguistic, or genetic evidence for Jews populating the New World?
It's all so ridiculous. The scars of De Soto's expeditions were there hundreds of years later when settlers went beyond the Appalachians en masse, yet there is no evidence whatsoever, especially DNA evidence, of the Mormon claims. One of the most ridiculous things as well is that Smith did not apparently include the information relevant to his time. If it actually wasn't Egyptian, as we acknowledge today, why call it "Egyptian." If he didn't mean horse, why use the term "horse"
You have to agree it is still largely conjecture and the land described in the BoM cannot be pinned to any place in particular. There is no Zarahemla, no plate armor ridden battle fields with swords and horses, no land of Nephi, no references to captain Moroni, no DNA evidence, no anything at all like the BoM describes. Placing it as a book of history is one of the most fantastical things anyone in any religion believes especially when we know JS's translation attempts are verifiably fraudulent like the book of Abraham where we have the source text today and can verify JS's inaccuracies.
The Book of Mormon has never been validated or proven, no artifacts have been found, wouldn't you think that one artifact was found if it was an ancient civilization.
@@TheThreatenedSwan 0:21
His argument could technically be applied to a lot of low-fantasy (stories with fantastic elements, but still in our world) books as well. So it is a bit of a poor argument in that regard. If you compare the two places, meso-america and the middle-east, and look at how much we know about those respective places, it is also a bit of an unfair argument. We know a lot more about the old world in terms of archeology and it's history, than we do about the new world.
A far better question would be, "Why do we see hebraisms in a book when the supposed "author" had no education in the literary aspects of the Bible?". Or, "How did a young man write a 500 page book with 337 names, three calendar systems, and a coherent description of the geography in which it took place, in about 70 work-days?". Why have none of the witnesses of the golden plates denied their testimony even after they left the church? Why would the supposed author risk his life for a faith and book that he himself made up? Why did both the Hebrews and the Mayans use a chiastic structure in their writings? (Not that this would be evidence that the Mayans had hebrew blood, but it is still a valid question in my opinion)
If someone can answer these questions in a way that doesn't raise another one, please tell me. (Not that my notifications ever ring up, but still.)
There is no linguistic evidence, which is really good evidence, to support Mormon claims. Compare this to the old testament having period accurate personal Egyptian names or referencing different nations that actually existed contemporary to them. Also the Syriac influence on Quranic Arabic. Joseph Smith's writings are thoroughly the product of the folk religious attitudes of that time period in America not of some other time and place. DNA evidence is also even better. We can even track the flow of certain diseases and their particular strains through Amerindian populations or say of different cow breeds interbreeding with bison and the date of such mixing events. There is no evidence for Mormon claims. There is DNA evidence of the Greek connection with the Philistines despite it initially being opposed by the mainstream consensus, same with Kossina's theories. Even the Mormon attitudes are that the various words and descriptions aren't specific so as to be disproven (or proven) but that they're empty placeholders you can insert anything into. By horses he meant deer, by reformed Egyptian he didn't mean Egyptian, even though that term has a meaning, he meant something else entirely.
Mormons not drinking caffeine makes sense to me. As a purely practical health focus, its a good idea to avoid an addictive substance.
Caffeine actualy has many health benefits if one doesn't take like 1 gramm of it per day.
That would also exclude chocolate, tea, most sodas, and other substances that contain caffeine.
@YAJUN YUAN yeah the sdas are almost as bad but they too have flaws in their health schedule because a lot of their spiritual means are limiting and flawed
@YAJUN YUAN well the seventh-day Adventist cult is definitely not as bad but it's still very bad because it and it's health code is just as weird too due to the fact that comes from l&g White another freak who is devilish just like Joseph Smith was and from the Jay witnesses like Charles taze Russell
Mormons can have caffeine. It’s “hot drinks”, including tea and coffee, that they can’t drink. They can have soda and energy drinks. It’s a letter of the law vs spirit of the law thing for them.
Latter-day Saint here. I appreciate the initial argument that we shouldn’t mock what we don’t understand. I disagree with the latter argument implying there is no good evidence for the Book of Mormon. There are thousands of internal and external evidences supporting the veracity of the Book. For a small example, many names were thought to have been invented by Smith, but have since been found to be authentic ancient names consistent with time and place. As well, detailed, long Chiasmus are found in the Book of Mormon. As far as archaeological evidence, look up Nahom, which has been found where it should be. Also, the Book of Mormon mention’s a group of men finding a large stone with writing on it telling the history of the people. This is consistent with Meso-American culture of writing their history on stelae. Something Joseph could not have known about. There are many other things, but suffice it to say that I believe the Book of Mormon to be authentic solely off of the objective evidence before me, in addition to personal revelation.
The archeological evidence you pointed out for native Americans is pretty weak. My Aztec ancestors weren’t the only people who wrote history on large stones. This was common throughout the ancient world. A big deal breaker here is the fact that there isn’t a single Native American language that has a linguistic connection to Hebrew. Semitic Jews and Native Americans also look nothing like to each other. To this day, there hasn’t been any genetic evidence to prove that we came from the Near East, in fact it’s been proven that our ancestors migrated from Siberia over 12,000 years ago. Possibly a lot older than that.
I disagree. Check out the work of Brian Stubbs on his work in the amazing consistencies of the Uto-Aztecan language family with ancient Semitic languages. Check out the work of John Sorenson on the consistencies of the Book of Mormon with MesoAmerica. See his book, Mormon’s Codex. Population genetics is not as determinative as people make it out. See the work of Ugo Perego for more info on that.
Also, almost all Native groups have legends of a great prophet or God that descended from the sky and brought peace and taught them good values. Each group called Him a different name, but the stories are very similar. Who was this person? The Book of Mormon has the answer
@@randomango2789 "there isn’t a single Native American language that has a linguistic connection to Hebrew"....Are you familiar with Mi'kmaq? It has many similarities to forms of Egyptian writing. Have you heard of the many artifacts that have been found in native American cites that contain forms of Hebrew writing? Did you know that native American traditions teach of coming to the continent via ship from East (across the Atlantic)? There are literally mounds of evidence for connections between ancient American dwellers and the old world.
I’m a traditional Catholic and I believe our theology is more sophisticated but I admire how Mormons raise their families. I’m inclined to consider them a Christian sect and fellow believers. Judge them by their fruits.
Yep, Mormons bear more fruit than evangelicals by wide margins it seems.
Mormons aren't Christians
As a Latter Day Saint I thank you, and want to let you know that I hold an equally high view of Catholics.
If you’re a traditional Catholic then I would recommend you see Mormonism how the Church does. Lutheran baptisms, for instance, are considered valid.
Mormon baptisms are not, because their understanding of God is so far from reality.
If someone doesn’t even believe in the Christian God, how can they be Christian?
@@Anthony-fk2zuno one knows enough about the “true nature of God” to determine if someone else’s belief is correct or not.
It is very interesting to consider how the Book of Mormon looks. When considering that it describes two civilizations that essentially destroyed themselves it becomes much harder to place.
I find the more interesting questions come from considering how it demonstrates human nature while focusing on cautionary stories of war and political intrigue shortly after describing that the word of god has more power to change peoples minds for the better than violence does.
There’s a lot of good stuff to take from the Book of Mormon, especially the story of Ammon and King Lamoni. A very good story of conversion there. And about it being difficult to place, have you considered it taking place in the Americas before the Native American times?
It's a novel written as fiction. A silly inane fiction.
@@fidgetthecrazy anyone can take names cut them in half then paste them together to sound sooo foreign even biblical sounding. Excavations in Missouri validate its all a massive fraud. Smith the polygamists deserved his fate.
I’m not sure you would say the same thing about Narnia.
And the Book of Mormon is clearly not fiction. Have you ever read it?
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and just want to say you guys are great. I love the podcast and catholics. You have some of the best theologians and thinkers that are so refreshing to hear at this time in the world. Honestly if we didn't have our faith- most of us would probably immediately be catholics because we share so many core beliefs- as well as the a common emphasis on the importance Saint Peter as the head of the church. For Catholics its the pope- for Latter Day Saint Christians its the current prophet Russel M. Nelson.
I agree (but in reverse?) I’m a Catholic and I have a great respect for Latter Day Saints. I have a question regarding leadership: what does the LDS church teach about Isaiah 22 and the “Keys of the Kingdom”? Catholics acknowledge Peter as the OG head of the Church (after Christ) and also get “apostolic succession “ from the story about Eliakim and Shebna in Isaiah 22. Did Joseph Smith feel he received the Keys of the Kingdom and if so, how/ through whom? I grew up Evangelical and always skipped over the Keys of the Kingdom part because I didn’t know it came from the OT. Curious if Mormons have the same experience or different.
I love you Mormons. I was treated with much love by sister Stage who passed away.
Elder Holland is a great American.
Bless you for the joan of Arc film the LDS made.
LDS doesn't make sense you have prophets in current standing
@@uncatila wow what’s the film called and what year ?
If they have some of the best thinkers and theologians, why not plant your flag of truth with the Catholic Church?
Latter-day Saint listener here! I’m not a subscriber but I do drop by from time to time to listen to the longer podcasts you do with guests. The topics you cover are so good!
Your guest here was most respectful in how he presented his views which was refreshing.
As the beliefs and values of the world continue to disintegrate I hope that the people of our two denominations will grow closer and more unified as we focus on our common ground. It’s sad to see, judging by the reply comments I’ve read on some of the other LDS comment here, that there are some who would prefer to reject any case for common ground.
On the outside we look quite different, but digging deeper I see a lot the similarities. Especially in comparison to many of the more modern, music-focused Protestant/Evangelical churches.
- We believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.
- We believe that We are saved through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, that is His perfect life, suffering in Gethsemane, scourging and crucifixion and ultimately His resurrection.
- We believe in the need for priesthood authority.
- We believe in the need for saving ordinances and the sequence of those ordinances, that faith alone isn’t enough.
- We believe that a child reaches the age of accountability at eight years old, hence why Catholics reserve Holy Communion until then and we reserve Baptism until then.
- We believe in the need for partaking of the sacrament/Eucharist/communion, and the need to abstain when living in sin.
- We believe in the need for confession and repentance.
- The wearing of special clothing for adults who covenant to consecrate their lives to more deeply obey laws regarding obedience and chastity.
- The importance of ritual as well as prayer, scripture and a Christ-like lifestyle.
- The importance of marriage and having children.
- We even believe in a Queen of Heaven.
I think that’s a lot of common ground. Keep doing what your doing!
Nope. You are talking about three different beings, not One God. So you are talking about something essentially different. You believe in many gods. This is not common ground.
@@duals-growthofculture2085 “And he [Jesus Christ] hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, WHICH ARE ONE GOD [caps added] in a state of happiness which hath no end.” (Mormon 7:7, from the Book of Mormon)
@@HelibearWomble That doesn't change the fact that you think they are not One substance, hence you not believing the Nicene Creed and you believe there are other gods and that the Father has a physical body.
@@HelibearWomble Also, the fact that Joseph Smith taught that God the Father is not eternal, but was a man on another planet is blasphemous and against God's Word.
@@duals-growthofculture2085 suit yourself 🤷♀️ take care!
Not Mormon but a descendant of the pioneers and the first man baptized in England. He was later excommunicated, but, I love my Mormon ancestors and what they built.
Matt's opening point about T bags is true yet, to be fair Matt I've heard you do the same with Buddhism,. It (Buddhism) might be wrong but not in the way you presented it. I say this as ex Buddhist and now Catholic
Go back to being Buddhist it's a lot better for you
Thank you for this video & those who commented, God bless us all!!🙏❤🙏
Not a strong argument, since the BoM and the Bible are not similar texts in history or translation. Accurate ancient history of the western hemisphere in general is vastly different than that in the east
Excellent mention of Chesterton's fence. It is underrated in most discussions today.
It is important to point out that while there are stories in the Bible with known locations and known peoples, there are many anachronisms in the stories as well as some being pure fiction such as Gen 1-11, the patriarchal narratives, the Exodus, the Conquest, and Israelite origins. As time has passed more and more stories unraveled. Fifty years ago it was well known Gen 1-11 was legendary pre-history. Now it is believed the stories up to at least King David is largely legendary. So Catholics, Protestants, Jews, and Mormons all share similar problems.
What I dont understand is, if Jesus supposedly was in the Americas, as far as I understand about mormonism, why was the Americas still pagan and not Christian when Europeans came to the Americas?
You know, there are more evidences and arguments for the Book of Mormon than just being able to pin down a location. Like the fact that it contains numerous examples of Hebrew poetry that an uneducated farm boy would never have known about. It’d be neat if you brought on someone from Scripture Central like Taylor Halverson to discuss BoM evidences.
You do know knowledge of language the person normally shouldn't know is a common sign of Demonic Possession?
@@supergoji7511
the catholic friars who interacted withe aztecs and mayas thought that they were dealing with descendents of one of the lost 10 tribes of israel.
@michaelangeloevans2722 Yeah but that's a dumb idea with what we know now. Some used to think Roman London was built by giants.
@@tatyannafrancis9935 Mohammed didn’t know how to read or write but somehow created the Quran. Does that mean Islam is true?
The Bible also says that many will prophesy in my name. They will have signs and wonders (aka Book of Mormon) but if they lead you after other Gods, do not trust them for God is testing your faith.
If it is truly the RESTORED church. Show me one church before Joseph Smith that taught that God was once a man on another planet before he became God.
I would also love to hear what excuses there are to why black people were not able to hold the priesthood or partake in temple ordinances for the first 150 years of the church.
I will say this. Just as I would never debate Christianity with anyone who has never read the bible, or Islam with someone who has never read the Quran, I would also never debate Morminism with anyone who has never read the Book of Mormon. Imagine giving critical analysis of a religious text and only reading the cliff notes. Not to say that this is what happened in the clip, but it's certainly going to happen in this comment section. 😂
J. Smith, creator of the Mormon cult said the Garden of Eden was in Missouri. 😂
the garden of eden could have been anywhere on earth if you believe that Noah's flood happened globally.
@@michaelangeloevans2722
Found the Mormon.
@@jeffs4483
but am I wrong? do you not believe in the bible?
@@michaelangeloevans2722 Do you? The Euphrates and Tigris rivers are quite far from Missouri.
@@BongBing11
you think a global flood happened and that the land formations and rivers were in the exact same spots when the water receded?
That isn't how floods work at all.
Matt…please get Shia Lebouf on! Praise Jesus and the intercession of Padre Pio on his Conversion!
I don't think Shia should come on. I think new converts need time to live and grow as Christians in the life of the church. I think the spotlight is detrimental to that.growth especially for a new convert. I'm glad for his conversation with Bishop Barron but I would rather have Shia thrive then for him to go on a podcast tour.
Hey guys, the edits for this clip were pretty a bit sloppy. There were two times where Trent is cut off mid word. It takes you out of the video, I began to wonder what happened instead of just focusing on what Trent said. Love your work in general tho, I just always want you to do better. Cheers guys
anybody ever notice how eerily similar mormonism is to islam?
False book , false prophet , polygamous, antiChrist
Same with catholicism in many instances.
Yep, and (Catholic here) a Lutheran pastor made a well-researched meme of it - search for “A Latter Day Regift” here on RUclips.
Mormonisn is known in my area as white person Islam.
Satan Smith wanting multiple wives but for different reasons for an Afterlife with sex yeah that's what Smith had with Muhammad but really after that there's not much similarity a lot of it's very different extremely overwhelmingly different
I don't think the comparison between the garments the Mormons wear and something like a scapular or religious habit is appropriate. The latter are worn as reminders, or as part of a promise for extra graces. The former is from a Divine decree stating that they will go to hell if they don't wear them. The weight and meaning is there for radically different reasons
Well said.
Catholics don't believe you have to wear a scapular to go to heaven
@@cheldog9356 Precisely my point. And that highlights the difference
I’ve been a Mormon my whole life (40 years). I have never been told once you anyone that if I don’t wear garments I’ll go to hell.
@@jkemp6791 allow me to be the first. It’s more than the underwear. Mormonism will most certainly send you to hell.
So the general most agreed on place that the Book of Mormon took place in the Yucatán there are horse remains and ancient cities. What I though was pretty cool was that lehi goes around naming places one of which is nahom, archaeologists in I think it was 1997 found a place that was called nahom after translation
Lmao k
A lot of things don't make sense until you learn about it.
So true
Thanks for being respectful. Thanks for calling for trying to understand others.
Trent, your demand of certainty about where a book of scripture took place before believing is a faithless demand. Knowing where a story took place doesn't prove it true. If it did then Avengers would be proven true by taking place in known city.
As a Latter Day Saint I thank them for their reasonableness. I often find Catholics much more reasonable than Protestants, both in their positions and their tactics.
But I do think the point about Book of Mormon geography is unfair. Our world history is on a direct continuum from Mediterranean and Middle East history. We’ve known where Egypt was since the moment Egypt was created. Of course we would know where Jerusalem is, Jerusalem is still there and has been there for the past three thousand years.
In comparison, Pre-Columbian American history is a completely separate timeline. A timeline that abruptly ended with the death of all its natives. There are no more pure blooded Mayans, Aztecs, Olmecs, or Incas anywhere in the world. These are ghost civilizations. No one knows their languages, and because new world archeology is so vastly underfunded compared to the old world, we barely even have examples of their written language much less their history. The only information we have about Book of Mormon archeology is the text of the Book of Mormon. It’s not unlike the issue of Biblical geography pre-Noah. No one knows for sure where the garden of Eden or city of Enoch is, just guesses. And despite all that, the Sorensen model of Book of Mormon geography is very compelling.
@@DudeNamedDuncan That debate was so good. Would love to see Trent Horne talk to someone, even if it’s not a debate.
Of utmost importance for me is whether or not Jesus performed the Atonement & not the location of the Bible. it’s the question of “did Jesus suffer for our sins, die on the cross & be resurrected ?” & not ‘where’ it was done.
I’m LDS & I appreciate the discourse that is on your channel.
@1:20 you distinguish between “Mormons” (which we have been asked in the last couple years to stop using that term to refer to members of the church by the prophet) & Christians. I don’t understand why you (& many others) don’t consider members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be Christians. We believe in Jesus CHRIST & his perfect mortal life…isn’t that the only prerequisite to be a CHRISTian?
Keep up the good work on the channel!
Maybe invite an active member/leader in your local area to be on your show & have a discussion?
@Calyer Simpson, I can tell you why Christians do not call people who believe the teachings of the LDS church Christians.
.
Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the 2nd person of the Triune God. He is Devine and only because of him being God was he able to atone for the sins of the whole world. Any lesser being who was not Devine would not be an acceptable sacrifice to atone for all sins throughout all time. LDS reject that Jesus Christ is true God.
.
Christians believe that God the Father is Eternal, as are the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Triune God always has been, is now, and will be forever. LDS believe that "as man is now, God once was (human)" and "as God is now, we many become (gods). Christians reject the teaching that we can become gods and that God was ever only a human. Jesus Christ took on the nature of humanity and retains it, but he has always been, is now, and will forever also be fully God.
.
So while the LDS claims to believe in Jesus Christ, the facts are that they do not worship to same Jesus Christ that Christians do. Christians worship God in Three Persons, the Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. LDS do not worship that. LDS is an a separate group that fell away from Christianity, but borrowed some elements of Christianity. However, they miss critical doctrines that are common to all Christians.
To be a Christian means to be like Christ and to be members of His Church, not a “church”.
Stop saying "lds"??? that's fake attempt to sidetrack yourselves. Your (real) name is mormon even smith said it that he is a mormon and founder of mormonism the kullltt. Satanist scam kulltttt.
Funny how you mormons today are in total contradiction to smith and brigham young. Not to say that smith contradicts himself every year of his satanic life from palmyra, new york prior to 1820(before his true his real "first "vision"" took place which had no "jesus" never was jesus anywhere as it is) to kirtland, ohio to jacksonville, missouri to nauvoo, illinois to carthage prison or jail at his satanic death. Now in Hell where he is destroyed for Good forever gone. And your numbers are Vastly Vastly decreasing contrary to your fake "15 million" your kulllt loves to LIE about to its own Doom again.
Your Antichrist luciferic cult also says that Satan and Jesus are the same guy so you're worshiping Satan implanted daylight and commit the worst of blasphemies against Christ the real one so there's nothing upon nothing of anything like with Catholics or even regular Christians let alone true Christians who were far far out of your reach do you still aren't aware of so your cult ' is just sad and sick
Atleast they're prolife I like that part of them
Trent needs to take his own advice and look into why it would be difficult to pinpoint exactly where the Book of Mormon takes place under the premise that it is a historical record rather than just saying it doesn’t make sense.
1. Is there only one god, or are there multiple gods? If multiple, how is a person to choose which deserves obedience? If there is only one good, who is Baal? If Baal is a false god, precisely what makes your god NOT false, aside from it telling you that is the case?
2. Would you agree that before anything can exist, something has to create it?
Did your god create everything? If yes, who/what created your god?
3. Is your god infallible?
4. Is your god omnipotent?
5. Is your god omniscient?
6. Is your god benevolent, or malicious?
7. If your god cannot make mistakes, then it follows that everything it creates is either perfect, or that your god intentionally makes things that are flawed. Would a benevolent god intentionally create something likely to suffer because of its flaws?
8. If your god can do anything, and it created the universe, why didn't it simply create a perfect world inhabited by perfect beings? If your god wanted obedience, and god is not malicious, why did god make disobedience possible?
9. If your god knows everything, does it already understand every thought and feeling you have? Does it instantaneously know everything you say and do? If yes, what is the point of religious rituals, such as prayer?
10. Why would an omnipotent and omniscient god not communicate directly and unambiguously with individuals, with no need of books, churches, prophets, signs, miracles, etc?
If a person is not intelligent enough, or not "worthy" enough to speak directly with god, whose fault is that? Who made the person in the first place? If a person is unworthy or incapable of directly communicating with god, how can that person be capable of recognizing a valid spokesperson for god?
11. Think about the person/people who convinced/persuaded/ordered you to believe in a version of god. Are they infallible? Is it at all possible for them to tell you something they sincerely believe, but for that thing they tell you to be actually incorrect?
12. Are feelings reliable tools to guide actions?
Suppose I hear a person in my neighborhood talking a lot about the presence of violent break in robberies nearby, and I get apprehensive. I am convinced by the passion my neighbor puts into this story, even though I've seen no tangible evidence.
That night, I hear a noise. I FEEL certain that it is a robber breaking in to harm my family. I get out of bed, pull a pistol from the bedside table. Without opening the bedroom door, I shoot through it to get the robber. When I open the door, there is my son, lying dead on the floor from my bullet.
I was sure. I relied on my feelings. My fear of a robber. My hope of being a defender father. Feelings, not facts. Was that a good way to live my life?
Is faith factual knowledge or is it just a feeling, something you choose to believe, without any rational proof?
There are things science does not yet have good explanations for. However, unlike religion, logic and science eagerly accept doubt, challenges and skepticism, and are eager to be revised and improved. They don't claim to be perfect. Religion does.
Religion demands blind obedience, with harsh horrific punishment in this world and the next if you fail to obey. If you ignore science, it doesn't change the facts of science, so no one has to threaten you about it.
Science built the machine you are reading this message on. Religion blows up clinics and puts burning crosses on people's lawns. Religion persecutes and murders and starts centuries of war.
Religion rapes little kids, then covers it up. Religion tells underage girls they have to get married and have kids like a farm animal slave. Religion is about ignorance and enslavement and threats and judging others for being different. Religion is about cowardly conformity. Religion is about keeping people UNquestioning and OBEDIENT, aka, slaves.
Science is about rational independent thought.
14. Do you deny that religion (superstition, irrational behavior) is the root cause of most human conflict in history, that for centuries millions have been tortured and murdered "because god told me to do it"?
13. Suppose a person has a book full of maps to guide a group journey. They rely upon it, but the group is perpetually lost.
You question the book, but your friend insists that the book is accurate.
"How do you know?" you ask.
They reply, "I know that this book is accurate and perfect, because it says so in the book."
Your friend insists that the book is information directly from god....but some other people wrote the book, based on their interpretations, and all of them disagree.....but that is okay, because of how passionately they shout about their version of the maps, and how strongly it makes your friend feel.
When you show them hundreds of self contradictions in the book, they get upset and say that you are just not reading the book correctly.
Which person is messed up? You, or the book fanatic?
How do you justify cherry picking of which parts of the bible to follow? Leviticus much?
Murdered and burned many animals as a sacrifice, as you are required to ?
How many NON religious books have you ever read?
14. If the point is to die and go to heaven, why not simply commit mass suicide and get it over with?
Christ was quite literally a kamikaze; is that what you preach should be emulated in daily life?
15. Why is it necessary to use superstition and irrationality to justify your practical principles?
Why treat humans like a donkey in need of the stick of hell and the carrot of heaven?
If you want positive secular behavior, why not justify that behavior in practical terms?
Religion preys upon the weak and the stupid.
Rationalization is not scholarship.
If your god is so wise, so powerful, WHY is it so petty as to demand unconditional obedience? What kind of god would need much less DEMAND that we grovel and call ourselves unworthy? Unworthy? Who made you in the first place!
If your god is so benevolent, and so omnipotent, why does it deliberately
cause suffering?
Why the grotesque elaborate torture scene of Jesus, when god could have simply changed the world in the blink of an eye, effortlessly?
Oh, your god cannot be understood? Then HOW can you know it even exists?
Where is your factual tangible irrefutable proof?
Suppose I "believe" that you deserve to die and I am allowed by god to kill you. How are you feeling about faith NOW?
Remember 9/11? They crashed those jets because of FAITH, because they believed religion that said they would die as martyrs.
A debate between two religious people is exactly the same as debate between two inmates in an insane asylum over which voices in their heads are "real".
IRRATIONALITY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL. Wake up.
FEELINGS ARE NOT TOOLS TO PERCEIVE REALITY OR GUIDE YOUR LIFE!
By definition there can be only one God.
Brush up on natural theology and then see if you have the same objections.
Imagine posting some insane rambling and then believing yourself to be the only rational one :p
The Premise that archeology making one faith true and another not is not for me a good one.
The next discovery is always just the next shovel full away.
And archeology in rainforest is going to have very different challenges to the desert.
Joseph Smith “ The world’s luckiest guesser ?
Maybe?
You guys are very respectful which makes you worth a listen.
Thank you 🙏
Specifically the Roman creeds added centuries later by emperors that declared heretical ideas like pre-mortality and the godhead of loving separate beings is what does not lay consistent with the love and justice of God. It makes the image and likeness of God more obscure and not congruent with reality and the family considering all human biology is preserved in the ultimate end of the resurrection, not even a hair is changed.
The overlords are not allowing this video to play. I've tried repeatedly, but it will not load. Looks like people below got to see it. I regret not being earlier.
It plays just fine for me. Maybe there was a technical problem on your end.
@@reginabillotti Oddly, any other video would play.
@@tdexter4959 Huh. Didn't notice that problem on my end, not sure what to say.
At 1:51, there is no comparison between where the Book of Mormon took place and where the events of the Bible took place. The reality is the areas where the Bible took place are well documented because the cultures around them all documented their history in ways we can easily access information thanks to places like Alexandria and others where records were kept. You dont have that in the new world. Only four records in the mayan language still exist because the Spanish burnt their records and we have just recently began deciphering the qncient maya glyphs.
Only a few pre Columbian original names of ancient new world sites are known, one is Lamanai in Beliz, thats a Book of Mormon name. But mosf ancient Mesoamerican sites have spanish names like "la venta" "San Lorenzo" "Tres Zapotes" they have those names for a reason and its not because the ancient Olmecs and Maya spoke spanish
In the late 1800's or early 1900's a catholic priest was invited to speak in the tabernacle by the Salt Lake Temple i wish i could find my book the quote is in (A marvelous work and a wonder) i will have to mostly paraphrase his statement.
"You mormons are ignoramus's. You dont understand the power of your position. If we are right then there is no need for a restoration and you are wrong along with all those who broke away from us. But if you are right then we are wrong and all those who broke from us are still wrong. It comes down to this either the church was not lost or it was in which it would have been necessary for Christ to restore it as Joseph claimed"
Love Trent but this is a weak argument against Mormonism.
For me, as a practising Catholic, don’t criticise other denominations or religions. Why am I a practising Catholic, well, it’s because I haven’t got it right yet. 😂
Lots of Mormons in the comments. Can anyone elaborate more on the link between Freemasonry and LDS?
Trent,define mormonism for us. Can you at all do that ? How many Gods are there ? Who are they ? What is he function of each one ? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not the church of arcehology, but the church of Jesus Christ. Who authorised you to critisize it? Show documentation if you are above God.
See, the unhistoricity of Mormonism seems reason to discredit it, while the unhistoricity of much of the OT provides me similar grounds for doubt.
What would you consider to he ahistorical within it? I think from an Atheistic perspective it's at best a mythological-historical work like the Illiad and such.
Lets give the Mormons credit. They just did an excellent Joan of Arc film.
No they didn't
Pot calling the kettle black
Amen
THIS IS SILLY. NO ONE KNOWS WHERE MANY PLACES MENTIONED N THE BIBLE ARE.
What is wrong with Mormomism? I was Mormon for 8 yrs. I was with them for 8yrs in England. Now I'm in the US I converted to catholic. for my partner.
@ravynxavier have you watched the video? he is not insulting them(title may give you false idea about the video)
@@ravynxavier I love that you converted to the faith. but why would you do it just for your partner? Or was it just for your partner? Do you believe what Catholicism has to teach? also I'm talking to someone and interested in him romantic and he's Mormon. And I'd obviously love him to be Catholic. I also want to be very careful and respectful. Any tips?
LDS here. I've very much enjoyed this channel. I'm all in on this approach to critiquing our religion. I get so tired of people who hold us to a different standard than whatever it is they believe. I think the Book of Mormon critique is a good angle to pursue, but looking at it closer the difference in geological evidence is an apples to oranges comparison. We've always known a lot about middle Eastern history and locations. We are only beginning to learn about places like central America. So it would make sense we know way more about the Bible sites than we do the Book of Mormon ones.
Loved reading this! Glad you're here and enjoyed the video!
Luke Hanson. I used to believe it took place in central America. I've learned the truth. In the place The Book of Mormon took place there are Hebrew writings, Moroni's fortifications, metallurgy, and Joseph Smith's words identifying the Heartland of North America. I think we should encourage Trent, etc to have faith and not promise future certainty.
@@Hamann9631 I'm just saying that the argument isn't actually a logical criticism. I'm not promising we will find certain things in the future.
@@lukehanson_ Sorry, I misunderstood your comment. I didn't think it was way off. My first reaction was to think you were going at it he wrong way but not to spread wrong information.
"We are only beginning to learn about places like central America" Definitely not. There would be linguistic, and especially DNA evidence we would expect to find.
I’ll have what he’s having 🩲
Trent, you should stop believing all of christianity, if you are consistent. There are unanswered and unexplained things about God and The Bible. There are unknown and disputed sites. God didn't give us a star map to his home world. Those are the reasons you gave for not believing The Book of Mormon. You should do the same thing to The Bible which you do to The Book of Mormon when the reason for one apply to the other.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:01 🩲 Criticizing Mormons without investigation is unproductive; apply fairness.
00:30 🚧 "Chesterton's Fence" principle: Understand why something exists before discarding it.
01:12 📜 Differentiating Mormonism and Christianity: Archaeological evidence for events' locations.
01:56 📖 Book of Mormon lacks consensus on event locations; unlike clear biblical geography.
02:24 🗺️ Assess cases fairly, but evidence leans towards Catholicism's credibility.
LDS is the logical conclusion of Protestantism
& polygamy and incest are the logical conclusion of mormonism
Loool it actually has more in common with Catholicism if anything
@@sjappiyah4071 well once you cut the authority of the pope/church fathers away. It’s easy to believe in current revelation and tell people “god told me the real gospel”
@@tookie36 Once again , it’s actually the opposite, among many levels of authorities including fathers/reverends/bishops/pastors, early church writings etc..Protestants observe Scripture as the highest and only infallible authority I.e sola scriptura.
Which is why Mormon claims like polytheism can immediately and instantly be rejected.
However coming back to what you said “god told me the real gospel” Is actually a problematic statement for Catholics, because you hold the word of man as infallible. If your Pope where to make a declaration ex-cathedra you’d have no basis to argue against it.
That’s practically identical to how Mormonism works with their current prophethood.
@@sjappiyah4071 sola scriptura ? Because Protestants claimed sola scriptura they denied the church fathers and any claim to being yoked back to Christ. Which is why people interpret these texts different and there is no authority to say if they are wrong or right. John 6… is it really the body and blood of Christ? The text is ambiguous and you can argue either point. Then you just decide what you think best. Who’s to say that LDS didn’t get a new revelation ? The holy Bible doesn’t argue against new revelation. Paul says not to listen to another gospel… but you can just say everyone else is wrong and this new gospel is just what Paul really meant.
You can say the same thing with Catholics and Protestants dont make sense. Just believein christ and read scripture and pray thats all you need
No, it’s not
Of course not: A religion created by a 19th century American called Joseph Smith that claims to be the true lost-until-that-point-lost version of Christianity, that he discovered in a buried box, that says, among many stupities: There are many gods; Jesus is a separate god from His Father; the Father lives in a distant planet called Kolob; Satan and all demons are also gods; every human was a god in Kolob before being born on earth; everyone that will be saved will also become a god and create new planets; and black people are cursed because they are the incarnation of the gods that stayed neutre when Jesus and Satan where arguing in Kolob… Is completely stupid, ridiculous, senselessly laughable and (quite literally) alien to every syllable of the Bible, Judaism, the doctrine whole doctrine of the Church and even to each and every single heresy that sprung up in the last two millennia of Christendom.
@@michaelibach9063 just curious?
Pffsh.... So close guys. I do not comprehend why or how such research and supposed truth seekers continue to use the false names of "jeezus,Lord and "god" when refering to Abba, Our Father in the Shamayim. Anyone may find, discern and know this Truth. Hence, from then on begin to only use the og,correct and non-pegan WORDS AND NAMES when saying,discussing and referring to Yuh'Shua and YHWH. Its just flat out disrespectful and incorrect of someone who fancies themselves a True follower of,and one of whom walks in the Way of Yuh'shua, to persist in referring to them by incorrect Pagan names after you know the Truth is extreme disrespect and blaspheme. Period. 😔🙏
Mormonism is a very interesting religion to me and I mean that respectfully. As I understand it Joseph Smith found a pair of glasses that allowed him to read a scroll that had an otherwise illegible language on it
The scrolls are located along with the glasses in Utah. So it’s the only religion I’m aware of where you could actually access a physical thing and determine whether Joseph Smith was accurate or not. That seems like a dangerous thing for religion to do - it seems to easily disapproval. But religious people are very inventive and perhaps I can come up with an explanation like “God took away the scrolls in glasses“
And I don’t mean this disrespectfully I generally like Mormons I think they’re nice people and I respect y them as people
ruclips.net/video/F7-jg5DJCOY/видео.html
Ok, so is there life on the moon? Is the Garden of Eden in Jackson County, MO? And finally, would you have given up your wife or daughter to Joe if he asked you to do so?
People don’t understand the culture milieu Mormonism arose in. Mormons ancestors were the hardcore underground brownist calvinists in England who became the puritans and pilgrims of mayflower fame who founded New England. So they already had incredibly distorted religious views based on basically decatholicizing religion and culture. Their ancestors migrated to vermont in the 1790’ and left to upstate New York after the year without a summer. Isolated from the Congregationalist universities like Harvard and Yale the people began to be really lacking in educated religious leaders and freemasonry was huge at the time. It was also a fad to be interested in the mound builder Native American civilizations. This was also the same group of people in western New York who came up with the free love movement (Oneida community) which would morph into the sexual revolution in the 20th century..
So it's okay to be a Satanist and to lie about native Americans and will disgusting hellish way ever or to do satanic cult against dead people or to think you could be like a god or to pillage against children or to rape people or to make up hell buildings doing satanic secret luciferian stuff the dams your soul as well as many other wicked stuff you think that's okay are you just in the in the dark about this like many people are about the moron cult because they don't tell you the truth
Satanism was huge in the day of Joseph Smith's area and Palmyra New York kirtland Ohio and is most worse in nauvoo where most of the evil moronism is because if you take that away Smith was just a freak terrorist war hungry fraud who is basically just conning people left and right and Palmyra and Kirkland and in Missouri
Funny how you mormons today are in total contradiction to smith and brigham young. Not to say that smith contradicts himself every year of his satanic life from palmyra, new york prior to 1820(before his true his real "first "vision"" took place which had no "jesus" never was jesus anywhere as it is) to kirtland, ohio to jacksonville, missouri to nauvoo, illinois to carthage prison or jail at his satanic death. Now in Hell where he is destroyed for Good forever gone. And your numbers are Vastly Vastly decreasing contrary to your fake "15 million" your kulllt loves to LIE about to its own Doom again.
Yes, it definitely came about in an American folk religious milieu where people like Smith were a dime a dozen. It just happened to be one of them that survived, but it is still as nonsensical as those that went extinct.
I can't help but not even need to look at the theological claims of Mormonism. The prophet as it were, really just declared a bunch of things that made him pretty radically famous and gave him a bunch of wives and sexual outlets and a time before promiscuity was mainstream in Christendom.
Additionally, the Mormon prophets don't seem to adhere to the theological idea of God as unchanging and so there doctrine radically shifts across every prophet.
I mean any real examination of Mormonism does not hold up to any sort of real critical scrutiny. That is just a perfectly adequate statement.
It does not hold up to basic rational thought, hysterological/archeological claims, they have never allowed their sacred book, that one that was apparently discovered to be examined by non church leaders.
Mormonism is perfectly structured like The most successful cult since Islam.
Really if you take apart that satanic structure it's a satanic cult because a lot of their power comes from deception darkness lies deceit evil trickery financial fraud left and right cuz they have a s*** ton of money on tides that they never share back they like to bolster their numbers are high when they're not they're very extremely small they like to put down other people who put them who call them out they don't allow people to question and they put up a lot of ploys and deception darkness left and right from their kids to their own leaders like Russell m Nelson and his gang as well as the earlier ones like Thomas monson and Gordon b hinckley and earlier with all their frauds back to Smith.
@L satanist antichrist Smith fraud fraud extreme fraud said in Missouri that he'd be a "second muhammad"?
Yes he said that. Theres at least 6 conflicting claims of smith of vision the older the more authentic and satanic devilic it gets and more accurate.
It's also sad if it's Satanist Smith didn't repent of his Satanism even till the day he died when he was killed in Carthage prison when you shot out a window and thrown into Hellfire where he belongs with his hellyfather Satan.
By the time they are done with this synod you’ll be having to make the case for how the Catholic Church is no longer Catholic …but it is Catholic ….but it isn’t…but it is….. bad times ahead folks
You have missed the entire point. Religion is not nor has it ever been "evidence based" in the way that science is. The second that you make it into that you have to answer to every one of Bart Erhmans accusations. You now that the burden of explaining every extra biblical piece of theology. You now have to explain how witnesses of witness are somehow accurate 150 years after the facts. Individual proofs and fruits are how we can know the truth of spiritual ideas.
The big issue why mormonism is wrong is the belief that one can go obtain godhood in the next life. You only have to go back to the garden of Eden to realise why this is wrong as this was the very thing Satan tempted Adam and eve with that they would have all the knowledge of God and become god themselves. So it doesn't seem logical that the very thing that caused sin to enter the world would somehow now be OK plus I wouldn't trust any human person to be the god of a planet including myself and if you think a person would somehow be capable then you have a serious pride issue
✝️👑
Really? That was it? Geography? That's all you've got? Pretty weak, and completely incorrect by the way.
I’m not sure we get the best part of the whole idea with these snippets. Oh! It’s a teaser for your other channel! 😏
Just because it isn't agreed upon where the events of the Book of Mormon took place, doesn't mean that they didn't happen.
That's easy. When one studies Mormonism/Joseph Smith one soon realizes that "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. That is to say, nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And, followers of Joseph Smith are not followers of Jesus Christ. That is to say, they are not Christians.
He made it all up. It's an absurd religion.
Respectfully this is not true.
@@spitingMYverse how anybody can believe in a mortal man is quite beyond me. I believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God. He rose from the dead. I've checked out out. I'm certain.
One other thing. There is not one single shred of archaeological evidence for the supposed civilizations that are described in the Book of Mormon. He made it all up. Think
* looks at all the times that the gospel tells us to see Christ as an example to follow, and that we’re reading the old testament in ‘Come follow Me” *
Yeah uuuuuuuuuhhhh, I think you’re reading a little too far into the history of the church and completely forgetting about the religion itself.
@@rolandovelasquez135 if I were to point you to the evidence that you desire you would say it’s not enough. You do not want to understand, so you don’t. So let’s leave it at this… you have your own religious traditions- and I have mine. What you won’t see from a Latter Day Saint is us acting like Pharisee’s- going around policing the gospel and auditing everyone else’s beliefs. If you haven’t noticed the atheist heathens have breached the walls of Christendom and are raping and pillaging. Godliness and meaning are being trampled. You spend your time attacking us? Destroying faith in God is your response? It’s shameful. This not what our savior would want from us.
@@spitingMYverse no respectfully this is true very true buddy and you've never looked into it yourself you've had your head either in the sand or you've been in the dark about this like most people have because the more on Evils are usually hidden away hidden from the public you got to do some digging and talk to truthers and whistleblowers of the cult if you do your research on this cult you'll find out it's hellishly evil far worse than what they're telling you up front way far worse and that's probably still putting it lightly
Scientology exists so Mormonism is not alone.
lol
ephesians 2: 20
"And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone"
no other church, christian or otherwise (yes, that includes catholics) has prophets and apostles.
the only one who does is "the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints"
you lose.
Matthew 7:15-20
15 j“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are kravenous wolves.
16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?
17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
the l.d.s has charities world wide, and spreads the gospel of jesus world wide..
again, ... you lose.
Christianity is based upon the thousands of years of Judaic and Christian prophets and apostles. The fruits of mormonism are a corrupted worldview and faith.
God wins. :P
Why didn’t Jesus visit the Americas? Why weren’t there prophets outside the “Holy Land”? If God is God, seems the least he could do to let people know.
Scapulars seem to also be extrabiblical nonsense so let the rule of nonsense be applied to both?
Sola scriptura is nonsense
@@calebadcock363 agreed. So is brown wool teabag gypsy magic. What else do you have?
@@whenpiratesattack Our Lady delivered the brown scapular to St Simon Stock as a sign of devotion to her and her son, Our Lord.
They literally talked about that in the video, you’re just proving the point of the video.
@@jimjim5865 literally why I brought it up. It’s called context and commentary.
A better provided biblical example would have been the priestly vestments of the Hebrew Testament carried over to the modern priesthood or the Urim and Thummim which are rooted in Biblical history rather than scapulars which do not have a Biblical precedence. Before you pretend they do from the tallits or prayer shawls described in the Old Testament, they were both worn but that’s about it as far as a reasoned and fair comparison goes.
Doesn't X-ty and Mormonism have the same doctrine that men can be gods?
No, Christians do not believe we can be gods. Christians believe there is only one God: the Triune God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: one God with three distinct persons. All are eternal and co-equal.
.
Mormons only believe in a god who has a single person: the Father, and they say that Jesus is not God. They also deny that the Holy Spirit is God. They believe in this doctrine: "as we are now, the Father once was (human)" and "as the Father is now (God), so we may become". Thus, anyone with a correct understanding of Christianity will quickly realize that Mormons are not Christians, although they do borrow some elements of Christianity, many of their doctrinal errors are too significant to be dismissed as secondary and inconsequential.
@@sidwhiting665 So the early Church Fathers were wrong.
@@sidwhiting665 If God is "other" we are no different from the pagan Gods who believed in idols. "God became Man that man would become God". God is not "other".
@@sidwhiting665 Still I can see a huge similarity with X-ty. At least X-ty believes in an incarnate God -- which means that God became a man. God did not want only one Son but many.
Not in the way you think. I like to think of it this way: Earth is god school. Heavenly Father sent us here so we could learn to be like him, to give us a living experience. But we’re not gods as man, not in the slightest. That will only happen once we’re out of the mortal plain. To claim that we’re gods now would be satanism. Another way to try to explain this; we call Him _Heavenly Father,_ do we not? So wouldn’t he act father towards all of us? He would want us to learn, to grow, to be able to be as successful as he is, right? So this is kind of like doing a hands on project, I like to relate it to the scene in Full Metal Alchemist where the Elric Brother’s teacher drops them off on an island and has them survive for a month to learn a lesson, only instead of just leaving us there, he’s still watching over us and telling us “if you need any help, all you have to do is ask!” Ask and ye shall receive, y’know?
With the usual “men can be gods” idea is basically rejecting God himself. That’s basically what satan did. He didn’t just want to be like unto God, but instead wanted to replace God and be worshiped. That’s not what we’re trying to do here. We understand that becoming god is impossible in this life because we’re imperfect. We’re learning imperfection so we can be perfect later on. Heavenly Father wants us to be happy, he wants to see us cross the finish line. I’m sure it would break his heart to have to send one of his children to outer darkness.
Tangent over, I hope this gives just s smidgen of clarity XD have a fantastic mordayning!
They’re too ridiculous to lie about
I think you’re arguing from a bad premise and you should read the book “The Christian fool “ all religion seems ridiculous to people not of the faith
Of course not: A religion created by a 19th century American called Joseph Smith that claims to be the true lost-until-that-point-lost version of Christianity, that he discovered in a buried box, that says, among many stupities: There are many gods; Jesus is a separate god from His Father; the Father lives in a distant planet called Kolob; Satan and all demons are also gods; every human was a god in Kolob before being born on earth; everyone that will be saved will also become a god and create new planets; and black people are coursed because they are the incarnation of the gods that stayed neutre when Jesus and Satan where arguing in Kolob… Is completely stupid, ridiculous, senselessly laughable and (quite literally) alien to every syllable of the Bible, Judaism, the doctrine whole doctrine of the Church and even to each and every single heresy that sprung up in the last two millennia of Christendom.
no religion makes sense :D
No religion except yours, right?
Atheism is emotional, not rational.
@@aclark903 Not believing that any of the thousands of man made gods exists is irrational? Rational arguments can be made for some sort of "higher power" existing, but not for it being one from a religious text written thousands of years ago.
@@MichaelG485 Why has Christianity lasted 2000 years, Michael? Why are you named after an #archangel?
@@aclark903 Neither of those questions has anything to do with whether Yaweh is real or not.
I agree with everything else said in the clip, and I'm a huge fan of PWA but the part about the Magic Underwear is lame because you might as well make fun of Yamakas too at that point, but no one would. There is also a lot that we can learn from Mormons if you judge solely on their fruits, Mormons often look great. Obviously, they are preaching a twisted version of Christianity that directly conflicts with so many things that Jesus said, Joseph Smith was not a good guy at all, and the LDS is responsible for a lot of bad things in its history, but many Mormons today give a very good name to their religion by their actions.
Michael Fowler. The teachings of Jesus Christ's church don't conflict with things Jesus said. Joseph Smith was was a very good guy. He never shuffled around priest who had been molesting children. Your lies about Joseph Smith and the church make me unable to accept your compliments.
All of you are wrong 😂
They are right. You are wrong.
@@philbrooks5979 mormonism and catholicism are wrong.
The CHURCH of CHRIST is the the truest for scripture of GODS WORD, the BIBLE.
Scriptures:
•Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32
•Proverbs 30:5-6
•Matthew 24:24
•2 Peter 1:19-20
•1John 4:1
•Revelation 22:18-19
Adding and/or subtracting GODS TRUTH OF HIS WORD, is going against everything GOD is saying or teaching us. There IS ONLY ONE BIBLE!!!
•Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32 -Warns against people altering God's word. The Book of Mormon is from God and not a man alting God's word. If that words means what you are claiming, then The Bible ends there.
•Proverbs 30:5-6 - You are adding to God's word by adding a claim that there is only one book. God never limited Himself from guiding us with more words. I hope you repent.
•Matthew 24:24 - That has nothing to do with God's true prophets receiving revelations, other than a warning against false prophets makes no sense if there are only false prophets. That teaching from Jesus doesn't prevent anybody from following God's true prophet. I invite you to the straight and narrow.
•2 Peter 1:19-20 - Peter didn't tell God to shut up. I invite you to learn from all the scriptures God has given. That includes The Doctrines and Covenants.
•1John 4:1- If you had really followed that advice you would be typing about how great The Book of Mormon is.
•Revelation 22:18-19 - If that means what you seem to be claiming it doesn't belong in the scriptures because of a similar proclamation in Dueteronomy. That puts no limits on God. The Joseph Smith Translation is God giving us information and is thus not cancelled by those verses. You really should have studied how we got The Bible before proving yourself to be a fool. "This book" in those verses in The Bible. The Bible as we now have it wouldn't be compiled for more than 200 years.
About that one Bible. Which one? The Protestant? The Roman Catholic with the Apocrytha? The Etheopian?
@@Hamann9631 How can you be for certain the Book of Mormon is from God and not From Satan manipulating Joe Smith?
Saying that something doesn't make sense says a lot more about you than it does about the thing that YOU don't understand, and should be an invitation for YOU to learn more about it. If YOU don't know where something happened in scripture, then YOU should research it more if YOU think that the location of the event is important.
Of course not: A religion created by a 19th century American called Joseph Smith that claims to be the true lost-until-that-point-lost version of Christianity, that he discovered in a buried box, that says, among many stupities: There are many gods; Jesus is a separate god from His Father; the Father lives in a distant planet called Kolob; Satan and all demons are also gods; every human was a god in Kolob before being born on earth; everyone that will be saved will also become a god and create new planets; and black people are cursed because they are the incarnation of the gods that stayed neutre when Jesus and Satan where arguing in Kolob… Is completely stupid, ridiculous, senselessly laughable and (quite literally) alien to every syllable of the Bible, Judaism, the doctrine whole doctrine of the Church and even to each and every single heresy that sprung up in the last two millennia of Christendom. "YOU" are just being deniable and ridiculously dramatic in defending that painstakingly modern foolery
This is what makes sense!!! Jesus chose 12 men to be apostles, He taught them and they represent Him on earth, and He chose Peter to head His church, this is called the Catholic Church. ALL OTHER CHURCHES have ONE MAN who says what they preach and follow as doctrine, comes from God. While the Catholic Church is having serious problems with the men who make decisions today, so does every other so called faith, because there are sinful men with too much pride. I pray that all eyes and ears are opened to Jesus’ teachings. 🙏✝️🙏
Evie Nelson. Are you sure Peter passed his priesthood onto The Roman Catholic Church? Why was there an end to Apostles? People are usually succeeded in things by a person who takes the same title.
As if Christianity makes sense. As if sense has anything to do with religion.
You said "Christians" not making sense, ehen you meant to say "Protestants"
Especially the religious atheistic ones who make their position dogmatic as if it’s not a mental position and not a real world position aka it’s only what they believe or lack thereof rather than what is true since they cannot possibly know Gods existence or lack thereof
@@loserlemby7273 No. The Christian doctrine is not sensical. Does bodily resurrection make sense?
Wow, how cool must you feel rn, huh?
You're just an angry atheist.
@@butterflybeatles God created everything. He can do anything. Ressurection is not impossible if you consider creation. A dev in a game can create and change because he understands the code. Same with God.
Mormonism, and Catholicism for that matter, are not Christian - they are cults! Still enjoy this channel and find it very informative on the whole.
In what way would you consider Catholocism to be a cult?
All religions are cults - what matters is which cult, if any, is true.
Catholicism is Christianity, Mormons are Protestant
Some sex of Catholic views can be cultish but Catholic is not a cold Catholics one of the most well-known Christian sex without it there be no Christianity in fact without the Catholic sect the Christian Bible wouldn't be what it is today because the original Christians of the first two centuries didn't have a a cannon for the New testament or Christian Bible so you got really got to thank the council of nicea as well as other ones that actually canonize the Christian Bible
@@vincentmcnabb939 no they're not most real religions are not cults they're anticoats all cults that are that today are colts but religions on their hand are religions Christianity most popular as at times has shown himself to almost be cultish but at times it hasn't you got to death find what a cult really is you can't just say it's cult without proving it or else you're lying to yourself and you're making your anti-religious views a cult so but no religions today most all are religions all cults are cults big difference enormous difference