The mind wipe of Dr. Light is a decision made by the OG of the OG Justice League. It isn't until Barry dies, and Wally becomes the Flash does it begin to unravel. I will not be making a video on "The Crime" of Dr. Light when he SA'd Sue Dibney-- that's just asking to be flagged. If you want to see this all unfold, read JLA (110-117) and Identity Crisis.
@@DanExclaimsAny chance that's the next video? Because it says ALOT when you are so shook by an event that you gotta have a heart to heart with your mom😢
Honestly it's not the crazy to have contingencies for a group of gods pretty much. The amount of times they've been mind controlled or taken over, he even has contingencies for himself and a whole fuckin robot to take him out as well lmao. But I can understand from the side of the squad but it would be irresponsible of batman or any or the non supe powered hero not to have contingencies for those exact scenarios
@@franciscolima1762this is where you are wrong his wealth is in the form of ocean resources not money And the kingdoms will never allow him to use them to fund JL He is rich but can't spend it Similar to tchalla
@@PoutingScoutim not a fan of it but to say its the worst in the characters history is a huge exaggeration. Keep in mind Bats has been around since 1939 and at multiple times in history had anywhere from 1 to like 5 ongoing series at a time plus elseworlds, 1 shots, and mini series. Personally I think its still better than 75% of Tom Kings run lol
@@joeclarke7982 cool so bring up all the goofy shit. The failsafe story is equally as goofy. “Oh bro Batman but his mind in a robot and he tried to Take over” is definition dork shit.
Zatanna took a lot of garbage from every BatFamily member for a long time afterwards. Some of them even blame her specifically for Bruce's ramped up paranoia that led to some of his more questionable life choices.
I mean she is kinda responsible Bruce was already paranoid but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to trust anyone but what they did just pushed him over the edge
Ironic that Batman in the future end up brainwashing his son Jason Todd with a failsafe so he will get panic attack when his adrenaline spike that he would not be able to fight back.
Wouldn't be the first time Zatanna's poor sense of judgment caused a lot of problems down the line, like how when Raven first showed up to ask for help against Trigon and Zatanna went all Mermaid Man on her and went "EEEEEEVIL! EEEEEEVIL!" until Raven left.
I mean she faces demons on the regular, imagine walking up to a girl and feeling the magical aura of a 5th Dimensional Demon inside a seemingly flimsy crystal attached to the moody girls head.
From the sound of things it wasn’t directly her decision. She’s just the one they called to do the wiping because doing this via magic would likely make it harder to not only trace, but notice to begin with. If Martian Manhunter did this it would likely have different ramifications and they probably wanted this to be as permanent as possible
@@raymondfisheriii791 no she is, at this point in time she had also done it to Catwoman (this is the entire reason she was a hero at this point in time)
@@facundochiari1118 the problem was it was only after all the trouble that the one whose fault it is came up to Batman apologized to him and asked to not blame the league just blame her
@@Tetsujinhanmaaillumanti ironically r evil and incompetent there so arrogant it messed with ther intelligence and it's pretty funny that's how u dumn down a smart character while not making them dumb just using arrogance
funny how when you decide to mind wipe people that trusted you and it inevitably backfires you eat dirt and suffer just punishment for such a personal betrayal.
All he needs to now is "leak" the identities of the entire League save Superman. Honestly, if Batman had at least an ounce of the ruthlessness of Owlman, he'd be a lot better off.
@publiusventidiusbassus1232 I never thought about that, but in reality hawkman has the nth metal which makes him one of the most unhurtable being in the world
@@lasttrinity0780Yes because they are wrong. What's so hard to understand about this? They're heroes. Their job is to protect people. They don't kill and they don't lobotomize people. The fact that they even thought about doing this let alone fix it is absurd. Hell if I were Batman, I would've exposed all their secret identities and given them my failsafe plans
@@DanExclaims honestly it’s just as bad as what he did for them to think it was necessary. Violation of a person’s autonomy on an intimate level like that is abhorrent
They kept it in TTG but also in the comics Dr. Light went inexplicably from one of JLA's adversary to Teen Titan's punching bag. Here's the reason he changed.
Doctor light absolutely deserved that especially after what he did, but honestly they should have just killed him it seems like it would have been way less messed up than labotamizing him. Also them mind wiping Batman is inexcusable he's their teammate and friend. The fact that they mind wipe Batman that alone tells me that they themselves don't even think that they were doing the right thing, it was incredibly cowardly of them to try and hide what they did.
It was kinda messed up to see them kinda do something incredibly unnatural and personal to Bruce while you remember that they did this Because Sue experienced something similar m
Brother, killing and mind wiping is some of the fucked up shit you can do. These are super hero’s, there almost as bad as the people that abuse their power. They wouldn’t have mind wiped someone if the victim was just some random person on the streets.
I like the first half of Identity Crisis but it really just went sort of off kilter but I’d never seen a story outside of HUSH that made me go “ya know maybe Bruce isn’t crazy to have these back up plans”
Batman's contingencies were a good idea from the start. Superman and Wonder Woman regularly get mind controlled. The Flash regularly screws the timeline, depending on the version, Green Lantern regularly becomes either a Yellow Lantern and kills a bunch of people or hooks up with a minor (Hal Jordan). If I was Batman, knowing the abilities and vulnerability of these literal gods in terms of moral correctness, I would too try and figure out some plans to deal with them from the getgo.
@@julianmcmillan2867 To be fair its a miracle that Batman has controlled himself and not deleted some of the JL. Flash especially, dude is more of a loose cannon and threat to reality than 95% of villains.
@@julianmcmillan2867 It was a good idea on paper until it got stolen, which honestly sound a lot easier to happen than a hero getting mind controlled.
If anyone wants to know the repercussions, Basically every villain got paranoid that they had been mind controlled/wiped or even turned (catwoman) as well so basically they became an army under lex luthor
Its worth noting Clark almost went into a blind rage aswell. I believe it was this series, when he found out what they did to Brce and he gently as he could, confronts the league about it, and Green Lantern puts his hand on Clarks shoulder to say “it was the only way” only for Clark to grab his hand and break it, following up with “Do. NOT. Touch. Me.” His eyes glowing red. It cuts to the rest of the league, who rightfully, are about to wet themselves at this sight.
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Bruce didn't create Failsafe. Zur-En-Arrh did in case batman ever broke his no kill rule. Ironically though, Bruce used Failsafe to beat Zur-En-Arrh lol.
@@themanwhocantbemovedbyatru1988 Is it a bad thing that I don't like the way that entire story ended? That entire climax just reeked of Idiot Plot for me. Is that a bad thing?
I can't take Hawkman seriously with them goofy ahh bird eyes on his helmet. Put a mirror in front of him and he'll start trying to peck his reflection.
@@Knight_Night25 I know professor X is really the worst basically abandoning his son to start an orphanage is just one of hundreds of cases that professor X probably deserves to go to hell
@@Raptermonster24 I'm going to be completely honest with you I may not be a mutant but magneto brought up some very good points like the whole world trying to destroy mutants and heels like hell no you think I'm going to let you destroy us
@@Knight_Night25 yeah magneto is right I agree but they play him as the villain so the X-Men don't kill the avengers and fantastic four like we all know they could
You can't blame them for Dr. Light. Dude was heinous. But you _can_ blame them for Batman. If they had gone to him first instead of trying to sneak some revenge in, then Batman might have agreed. Hell, he might have had a better solution.
@@ClockworkGearheadNah Batman is mentally insane and stupid Bro doesn't want to kill NO MATTER WHAT because he himself says he is too mentally ill to control himself and will go insane murdering everything where the punishment does NOT fit the crime. BUT then he forces this flawed idea on everyone else because the writers want to keep Joker as the villain to Batman and they can't do that if Batman just kills all his villains that cause genocides.
@@Ardeleus and dr light would have been better off in a custom made prison for life rather then this lobotomy which DIDNT WORK. and like clockwork orange just made him go aftetr the titans to do his disgusting work again.
And Damian does the exact same thing with his little band of miscreants. And one of them, not in the loop, ties them all up and reads them the riot act.
I don't feel bad for Light at all....i feel bad for his victims and the future victims. Why is it that people frel bad for the person doing the terrible crime but never the victim?
Pretty sure any villain doing any crime would have worked for this story, since it's mostly about what the JL was doing. Storywriter went with Dr Light and his particular crime to try to add a bit of 'moral grey area'.
@@Ketharuil GA always seem to suffer this, if the writer doesn't like him (specially for political reasons) he'll make everything he can to destroy Ollie image
Idk man, is giving him a new shot at a brand new life worse than locking him in some cell or magic box for the rest of his life? Its a pretty gray zone i think
The league aren't the law. They can't just do that to someone they've already beaten. No matter how fucked up the the crime they did. If say, they were doing this in a fight, and this was the only way to defeat Dr light, then fine. But no, the context is very different. They could've easily turned him in to the authorities. They took it way to far. And even more so when Batman arrived.
They effectively murdered him. If you erase a person’s mind and memories then replace them with a new mind and memory you essentially killed someone and put someone else in their place.
@@anthonym9977maybe they should do stuff like this because it's kinda unrealistic if they didn't. Maybe them not doing this is outdated way pf writing a story.
"ALFRED GIVE ME THE AGAMEMNOS CONTINGENCIES FOR EVERYONE BUT WALLY" "sir you don't have one for Mr. West" "that's because he's the team's moral center, oh yeah also leave Clark's off" "sir Mr. Kent's contingency plan just says 'Jump him'"
@@WannabeWryter He specifically left Clark out of it. Clark was also incensed by what they did and quit the justice league over their betrayal of Bruce.
I know it’s been done several times, but we need a team of heroes that’s okay with doing things like mind wiping villains. A team that will stay long term.
So…did Batman and Superman start staying for the cleanup after the dust settled? This seems like the sort of logic that would be sometimes shown by Amanda Waller prior to her just being flanderized to hell and back. Cold and awful, but arguably also logical and perhaps necessary. Fighting crime is one thing, but if you don’t do at least *something* to try to prevent it from happening again, your fight is kind of pointless once it’s clear that it’s not going to be effected without post-fight action.
Why is everyone making excuses for dr light saying what he did was bad but didnt warrant that it absolutley did he is a monster who ruined sue dibneys physcy with his actions and countless more with him also being a murderer
@@giornogiovanni3379wha I'm saying. Bro deserved what was coming too him and he had it coming but also Batman didn't deserved to be mind wiped to begin with. I don't do good with SA stories and it makes sick to my core but if it is done right I will sit and watch or read it just to see the bastard get the karma they deserve
I think because it highlights a flaw I have noticed in the heroes in DCU which is they can get away with everything to honestly a scary degree and while yeah this was fine them mind whipping Bruce kinda proves they operate on a pseudo might makes right mentality.
Does it HELP her that he is running free and could do the exact same thing again? That he doesn't know he even did it, nor was punished for it. They killed his mind and put a different personality in there. But did they get everything? Is the new personality worse? It doesn't even stick. And then they let him freely run around the TEEN Titans, while he knows what they did and is out for revenge. It screams incompetence and that the league doesn't know what they are doing.
I don't care what they say about Dr. Light his SA of Sue Dibny was one of the best sub plots in the history of comics. And the reason why I say that is because it opens up *SO* many possibilities. It caused Batman to leave the Justice League. It caused Superman to leave. And it bought up the question "what do we do with super villains who attack our loved ones" which is something comics had never really tackled before. It really was an interesting premise but I don't think readers were ready for it at the time.
@@teobratuteodor1728He’s going to make a fully separate video to answer your question. There’s probably too much to explain clearly in a RUclips comment.
The OMAC project was Batman’s personal spy satellite. It was meant to keep tabs on all of Earth’s metahumans to make sure no superheroes would cross the line. It’s the Skynet of the DC universe, read Infinite Crisis for more!
When half of the Justice League decided to lobotomize doctor light. I didn't see it as confrontational I've seen it as doing the right thing because he was a s-assaulter and assaulted Elongated man's wife at their base.
The problem then becomes where do we draw the line? And what happens if we cross it. Do we just allow them to have this authority to do it to say. Captain cold or Catwoman for minor crimes. I 100% am for disposing of rapists. But you have to understand there's a line that needs to be held and maintained in these convos
Erasing his memories and personality is essentially killing him and replacing him with someone else. He can't exactly live with the consequences of his actions if they do that. Zatanna wanted her cake and to eat it.
@@YEs69th420living with the consequences? Does he even feel remorse for his actions? How’s elongated wife gonna feel when she sees him again back on the streets doing whatever the fuck he feels like?
Well......bye!!! Lol! I always disliked batman anyway. Thousands of innocent lives have been taken over and over again cause he won't delete certain villians who shoulda been deleted long ago. Woulda saved a lotta families a lotta unnecessary pain and heartache
That's so weird,I just reread this yesterday. Just leaving and depending on the rest of the team to deal with the responsible parts gives off a superiority vibe. That was a deep story.
Who do you think pays for the damages their fights cause??? Wreck a whole city and rack up billions of dollars worth of debt and BATMAN pays it off and you think letting them handle where the villains get sent to is superiority complex at it's best?
Respectfully if you take away clark and bruce 70 percent of JL is gone the rest comes in 30 percent Not to mention the amount of money bruce spends on these btches and JL it anything they're the ones who actually do less
@@thescorgon5964 i understand that. Superman does the heavy lifting(literally being the heaviest hitter) and batman pays for all the damages they cause, cut them some slack
Didn't agree with Batman here. What were they supposed to do? Let a crazed supervillain who knows their secret identities go out and possibly tell others? He lives in such a fantasy world. Look what happened to Jim and Barbara. To Jason. Batman is really an asshole of a character who has the stupid standards but the only reason he can live with them is because he's alone most of the time. He doesn't have that many people who are civilians in his life. He's able to have a devil may care approach to things. To be honest Ralph could have killed Light and literally pled temporary insanity due to crime of passion. I guarantee you nobody would vote guilty. Batman of course would be upset but then we could just get Hal to punch him in the face again.
Isn't Batman the same guy who has a spray that can erase the last 5 minutes of your memory,and was jason really the first person he brainwashed? Also, i didn't remember him having an issue with league psychics breaking into peoples minds to extract information even if it leaves them in horrible states like what ms martian was doing in young justice
But was it really necessary to wipe his memory not to mention they intended it to last forever zatana is a magician any simple binding or sleeping spell will do but no we will permanently wipe off memory of a guy who has what it takes to destroy all JL and what clean up he pays for it and evrything if anything they're the ones who aren't doing sht and it's not like he he sit back and relax in fights No he's actively on the frontlines Now I agree with your point on Dr light he should've let it happen
Terrible cape comic crap Dr. Light should have been ended and Batman should have sat the hell down and shut the hell up. Garbage way over hyped and written Batman as per the typical cash cow milking garbage of cape comics.
The Justice League was totally in the right to do what they did to Doctor Light. Hell, he deserved worse for what he did. If Batman had cared he would not have had a problem with it. He takes justice into his own hands when ever he goes out as Batman. So who is he to judge them for erasing Doctor Lights Mind. Batman brainwashed Jason in the future to have a panic attack to so he cant fight back. And people saying it may have been Bruce's body but not his mind. He choose to make Zur En Arrh so yes its still Batman who choose to brain wash Jason.
@@lasttrinity0780 ofc he gonna attack when he teleport in expecting to help out the clean up just to see his teammates lobotomised the mf, dr light is piece of shit but doesn’t excuse them doing lobotomised on the him
I'm all against changing someone's personality. personally all the crap that Dr. Light has done, same with the joker or basically nearly any gothem villian. Should put them into deathrow. I never liked the idea that not killing these absolute psychos, is somhow moral. I have said it once and I will say it again. Batman has let more people die because he would not kill someone.
Batman use to be my hero, until i came to see he is just as bad as his rogue gallery. For his code he lets thousands die. When keeping your code cost the lives of innocent, what kind of hero are you?
I’m sorry but this is the kind of BS reasoning that leads to vigilantes that go around murdering innocent people because they “think” their victims were bad guys. You might think it won’t but Batman ditching his code leads to things like every one in Arkham including both patients and staff to be massacred regardless of if what the did means that they should die or not
Erasing Dr. Light's identity wasn't necessarily a bad choice, and I would guess Batman didn't have a problem with it so much as with the league taking that decision into their own hands. Bruce is typically shown to be very aware of the slippery slope most superheroes stand at the top of. He knows how easy it would be to take 'law' and 'justice' into their own hands, and doesn't trust anyone to remain true to their original purpose after taking such a step. Especially himself. A distrust that's proven correct in storyline after storyline, to be fair.
It’s not. What Batman did to Jason he did while not within his right mind and more than a decade after identity crisis. Batman had an extremist plaguing his mind, driving him insane, and causing him to act out of character as he states himself. The league simply wanted to hide their dirty laundry. It’s not the same thing.
To be fair, Zatanna wasn't *intending* nor *trying* to lobotomize Dr. Light. She was trying to remove his memory of assaulting Sue and of the secret identities of the other League members that he'd acquired while he was on the satellite. The muddying of his intellect was an unintentional side effect. Now, when she lets herself get talked into attempting to use magic to help reform some of the villains (the The Top), *that* was deliberately doing something deeper and more questionable than securing data or not letting a SA perpetrator savor the memory of his crime, and this was the start of a slippery slope, but she didn't mean to mess up his mind, and the Justice League didn't "decide to lobotomize Dr. Light".
Bruce's biggest problem is that he thinks him payrolling stuff makes him everyone's boss and substitutes that for actually interacting with his peers. Meanwhile Clark is like "I cooked dinner. You guys are doing the dishes." Which is fair.
Yeah it does make him a boss not to mention the clean up they cry about is paid by him the damages they do is paid by him Their tech is paid by him and let me tell you that's what a boss does You work he pays and he is frontlines every fckin time Go cry about it it's them who actually aren't doing sht
Oh yeah no, Batman would totally be absent for the cleanup. I mean not like he fucking witness the trial of every single Gotham villain personally or anything…. Oh wait!… Seriously, when writers does this shit, it’s so annoying.
Personally i find this extremely hypocritical, like he had the whole contingency plans thing, but when someone else is behind his back (only because he doesn't do the clean up) then he's angry.
Plans were made after the mind wipe Why should he clean up? He fckin pays for the cleanup,the damages Whole JL is funded by him Every major or minor battle he's in the frontline But the thing is it's trendy to hate Batman and you just simply following it
@@ked49He did flag it as Bad. Bruce literally left Gotham. Left the family. Apologized to Jason. And hid in an old cabin because he knew his actions were wrong. What else do you want him to do? Yell at himself? Spank himself? I mean let’s be real for a sec, one can only punish themselves so much.
Difference is those contingencies don’t involve lobotomy, and they were made after identity crisis within the timeline. Batman was lobotomized *Then* he made the contingencies. So it’s not hypocritical, one’s being safe rather than sorry due to prior experience. The others are lobotomizing people behind the leagues back, including teammates.
If you have an insanely powerful and dangerous individual PROVEN to use their immense power to abuse the helpless as a MONSTER what the Justice League did was valid. Mind melting and reshaping Dr Light into a person who WON'T abuse and hurt powerless innocents. And to be honest? Batman is straight doo doo in the head. The Joker should be dead. But Batman will PROTECT THE JOKER because the writers want the Joker as a constant nemesis. Batman is mentally insane so he creates the No Kill rule FOR HIMSELF because he can't control himself and will just go on murder rampages where the crime does NOT fit the punishment because Batman is actually a peanut brain from writer-syndrome. and yet he FORCES THIS ON OTHERS. So from how stupid the writers made Batman's ideology and his No-Kill rule reasoning, Batman would've opposed ending the reign of a superpowered MONSTER who did nasty things to powerless women.
You see this would not happen with the Avengers. They have SHIELD's procedures to fall back on if they have any questions about what to do. The Avengers are generally BADLY written when they are allowed to do whatever they want. As separate heroes that is fine. But not as the group. This in contrast to the JLA, who are basically trying to be better than a Superpowered Neighborhood Watch, that really has no set bylaws or procedures, that is independent of any one or two person's say so, to guide or direct when they are not sure what to do.
Yeah, no, this could still happen with the Avengers because the avengers aren't a part of S.H.I.E.L.D. The avengers work with shield but they don't need to listen to their procedures. Hell it happened to cap when he ran afoul of the Illuminati a subset of The avengers (iron man, professor x, Black panther, and Namor (a old partner of Caps from world War II IE the Invaders)
@@kaelhyun2401 It is not a matter of the Avenger being part of SHIELD, but having SHIELD's rule book to work from when the Avengers need to know what to do in some weird/awkward/unforeseen by them situations. Also, the Illuminati are not part of the Avengers or SHIELD. As the name implies they are a group of people who, think that are vastly better than everyone else, meet in secret because what they intend to do would upset the "lesser people" greatly, and will do (did do) things that are demonstratively evil for "the greater good". This is why World War HULK stomped them out. They could have exiled him and if they had better made his ship, maybe if flies away so HULK could never come home that way, or could not be turned into a bomb (Miek's doing. Yeah, that little bug dude was really dark in the comics) the HULK would have been happy on the opposite side of the galaxy. The Illuminati just made stuff up as they went along and merely trusted than everyone was on the same page.
Okay, I get that Dr. Light did something terrible, but mind-wiping Batman?!? A friend and the guy providing your funding?!? I’m supporting the complete dismantling of the Justice League at this point.
Unfortunately they weren't allowed to kill him an jail in comics is basically a weekend vacation for villains so it was the best option especially as Light had private information on heroes. It was the best option Batman whining about it is really stupid cause what else were they supposed to do let light go to jail and tell everyone how he did elongated man's wife and where they live smh
@@liberleo1384Yes. Lock him up. That's where he belongs. Besides the League can just erase that knowledge from him. Nobody's complaining about that. They're complaining that they took it too far. Batman had every right to call the League out on their shit
@@connorharnage6697 Ah yes lock him up cause that works 😑 When has prison ever worked in DC if it did anything then joker wouldn't be a problem neither would penguin, two face , ivy, Hugo,pyg,riddler, mad hatter, Harley Quinn, croc, scarecrow see a funny resemblance with all these people oh yeah they are all batman villains who constantly get outta jail each doing stuff equally if not worse then what light did. Batman was against the mind wipe in general to the point he was about to attack zatanna hence why they restrained him it didn't matter how far they took it he was more then happy to just allow light to be locked up tell everyone all the heroes identities and escape again just like with joker all because of that stick in his rectum that makes him believe he's holier then thou despite being willing to do things just as bad as what they've done. Batman was being a whiney brat like always denying the correct course of action instead of what's necessary to keep people safe all because of his trauma frankly Light should be six feet under a mind wipe is a blessing in comparison to what should be done to him but even then bats wouldn't be satisfied.
This was just a disgusting story as a whole. What followed and was included was interesting, but the idea of Dr. Light(a villain mostly known for fighting a group of teenagers) doing this, and the way it was revealed, and the situation around it being revealed, was just insanely stupid. Pretty much entirely relies on the idea that some of the smartest people in the entire DC universe couldn’t figure out how Sue was killed. And the idea of not only fridging her, but retroactively revealing she was the victim of something that horrible and no one mentioned it for years feels really gross. And Deathstroke’s ability to beat the entire Justice League is so goddamn stupid. I don’t care how much the writers love Slade, if he could always overpower the will of Kyle Rayner he would’ve gotten a ring years ago. Sorry, that’s a bit of a rant, I just feel like this story is *not* one that we should be giving retroactive appraisal. It’s a lot like DC’s version of Civil War. A story that’s sort of a post-Dark Age attempt to engage with that method of storytelling with a 21st century modernism. And like Civil War, it’s also really heavy on shock while light on substance. I’ll say, though, we can definitely look at the great stories that followed as only possible because someone took the plunge to see how far they could go. Doesn’t mean that they ended up coming back up for air, but still.
Nah, I am not with Batman on that one. Sure he can be angry for what they did to him but he can't be angry about Dr. Light because he refuses to kill criminals and they always escape prison. Dr. Light made it his mission to terrorise Su and Batman wasn't going to give any solutions !
And naturally it didn't stick. The mind override got reversed and Dr. Light decided to go after the TEEN Titans as revenge. Because Zatanna is incompetent and doesn't know spells fail ALL THE TIME. Despite it being half her damn job to deal with failed magic.
You all sit there and complain about how all Batman does is imprison his villains and they keep escaping, what is he really doing. He should just kill them. When the JL does exactly what you guys ask for you guys judge them and not try to understand. You aren't them, you aren't going through what they are going through, dealing with what they have to deal with mentally, physically and emotionally.
identity assassinating a villain is one thing, but trying to brainwash a fellow leaguer Batman to cover that is an entirely different thing. To me, it crossed the line so hard. It reminds me of the Young Justice show where Miss Martian did this to Superboy. Huge no
Very true. Batman himself knows how much of a menace he can be if other heroes don't follow his personal code. He would either have regretfully accepted it like he eventually did with Maxwell Lord, or agreed that being mindwiped bought the Earth many years with a Batman that helps the Justice League protect the Earth without such enormous caveats
And he was written consistently here, too. If they wanted to operate secretly, and handle things personally, then they should have stayed out of the JLA. The JLA had a higher standard and they betrayed it.
@ClockworkGearhead What standard? They're superheroes, not gods. They can't control every situation, and they cannot toss aside the countless lives lost when someone capable of genocide or constantly killing loved ones of heroes escapes constantly. Batman always has to be in the wrong 99% of the time otherwise there are no reoccurring villains, and eventually, no comics. Living in the DC world is like living in hell. So many beings have turned the world upside down in continuous continuity that everyone should have PTSD. Imagine everyone on earth having hundreds of either vivid or vague memories of the most horrific invasions or end of the world scenarios. Striving for an ideal, but willing to be real with oneself to actually do something proactive to make the world not a living hell, is the mark of a hero. Never looking for the easy way out, but not being satisfied with the world being in hell because you give villains a million extra chances cause a few crazy people like Batman say so. And we recently learned he keeps Gotham and the entire world to a slightly lesser extent in perpetual purgatory, because an evil god named Barbatos compels him to. This is fully canon.
I'm gonna call bullshit on the writing, Batman is exactly the guy who would meticulously figure out where every villain should go and how they should contained
Do you think after another massive event/reebot that comes this summer and begging of autumn dc will allow red robin to grow up and become pre flashpoint versions of themselves?
That would end my trust in them too not just the group but the people involved. Never again, messing with someones mind like this is so messed up on a fundamental level. Something like this dose make you look at his backup plans for the group and agree.
Some comic book writers don’t know how to write heroic struggles anymore. I don’t want some random writer deciding “Hey, let’s take this man of virtue and pure intent and completely butcher the point of his character because I want to talk about a personal story of mine that shares no characteristics with the character’s story. I mean, I could just create my completely original story with my own characters and struggles, but who would read it without the brand attachment?” Do not write characters and their struggles unless you have a thorough understanding of who they are, what they believe, and (more importantly) what they would never do. That’s my personal take on the matter.
Not really, but I believe that along side bruce discovering this he also discovered they manipulated Catwoman's mind to be more heroic, when she found out she no longer knew if she was better by her choices or theirs
@@newfanguyjackson4858 Oh, I didn’t know about that. And I do agree it’s very messed up, it’s completely understandable he wouldn’t trust them after that. I probably wouldn’t either (granted I’m generally more calm & reasonable than Bruce, they could just talk to me. But still…)
Bruce was extremely pissed and straight up pulled all of his funding of the league and left it because his trust in the JLA was completely destroyed. It lead to him making brother eye to spy on heroes. The bat family pretty much completely disavowed the league for what they did to Bruce and light alongside other villains
Batman and Superman are all high and mighty about what they will or will not do to criminals. But Batman keeps letting Joker out to kill hundreds and hundreds. I feel like giving a mind wipe and a new personality is entirely within the parameters of morality and keeping them safe and alive. I'm just gonna say it, sometimes, Batman AND Superman are wrong about their moral code
i agree with the first part i HEAVILY disagree with the second mind altering is the same thing as APE to me. its breaking someones inner self there soul to a shape you find more pleasing it wont last and its as cruel as a demon to do. and it didnt dr light snapped out of it within months remebered wha happend then did awefull things to the teen titans as revenge on the league.
You know what I got to say Batman was ass Golden rage they did what they had to do he wasn't helping he did a horrible thing to the league's wife sometimes Batman makes the dumbest choices the lead to more problems serious problems. Yes I'm a fan of Batman but sometimes he needs to draw the line
I don’t blame them for doing that to Batman, he’s not the only millionaire on the team and yes he’s in the trenches ,but he’s responsible for letting menaces like the Joker live to murder more people. He’s inadvertently just as guilty as they are. What they did to Dr. Light prevents him from becoming a problem in the future. Batman got in the way and needs to work on how he can prevent his own rogues gallery from terrorizing more people. Even the Flash makes his rogues think twice before committing crimes. Batman has done horrible things to Jason let’s not forget.
Sure he's responsible for Joker's actions? Didn't you know Bruce Wayne is the Joker? Oh wait, no he isn't. Stop trying to throw responsibility off the psycho clown onto the guy who stops him
You're wrong about. Batman and jason but whatever. It ain't so black and white buddy. Batman always extra responsibility for joko.He just doesn't do the one thing.He literally swore he'd never do on that. Joker actually is trying him to get him and everyone else to break because he knows it'll make him a worse person for it. Superhero super heroes that kill, kill everybody
The mind wipe of Dr. Light is a decision made by the OG of the OG Justice League. It isn't until Barry dies, and Wally becomes the Flash does it begin to unravel. I will not be making a video on "The Crime" of Dr. Light when he SA'd Sue Dibney-- that's just asking to be flagged. If you want to see this all unfold, read JLA (110-117) and Identity Crisis.
Thanks for naming the issues I will probably go and get them now to see this
Don’t exactly need to make a video for that one. What you showed here was perfectly enough.
@@randomguy1033it gets really deep, you should check it out
Name of the comic please man
What does Dr. light do to her
Even superman was thinking about leaving the Justice league because of this.
Superman DID leave. Ma Kent stopped that.
@@DanExclaimsAny chance that's the next video? Because it says ALOT when you are so shook by an event that you gotta have a heart to heart with your mom😢
@@DanExclaims I'd like to see a video on that if possible!
I think OMAC and WW killing Lord were also factors
@@DanExclaimsis sad to see someone that actually cares about there villains
What makes it even worse it was the daughter of one of his mentors that did it to him and they refused to teach him magic for the same reason
Damn, I forgot about that.
Zatanna is not just his mentor's daughter. She was his childhood friend and even ex girlfriend.
@huntertezz even worse
Also didn’t they tell them that memories were a powerful form of magic that Batman would always have, which is crazy because they erased them
@@KeizerSosebee weird how batman didn't have a contengency for that. but glad this no longer canon.
The Justice League is wild to be honest
Especially with how many heroes are in it in some comics anyway
@CatKun-2000 also it appear half of them are dived most of the time. Specially if their supposed to kill
@@imwastedhere oh
Honestly it's not the crazy to have contingencies for a group of gods pretty much. The amount of times they've been mind controlled or taken over, he even has contingencies for himself and a whole fuckin robot to take him out as well lmao. But I can understand from the side of the squad but it would be irresponsible of batman or any or the non supe powered hero not to have contingencies for those exact scenarios
you can die a hero or live long enough to become the villain. that's how the saying goes anyway.
The bills will ruin the Justice League.
Nah, Aquaman got it.
@@franciscolima1762 o yeah, Aquaman is more rich than Batman the problem might be to is somewhere forgoten or claping some dolpins.
@@franciscolima1762this is where you are wrong his wealth is in the form of ocean resources not money
And the kingdoms will never allow him to use them to fund JL
He is rich but can't spend it
Similar to tchalla
@@teobratuteodor1728 tbf green arrow's also a billionaire. sure its not nearly as much money as bruce has got. but still. they aint broke isntantly.
@@romanplays1 sorry, i forget about him.
I don't really blame Batman for losing his faith in the Justice League. I'd never trust anyone again if they did that to me.
Guess project failsafe wasn’t so bad after all
@@AEROStrik3project failsafe sucks. One of the worst stories in Batman history
Has he messed with people's minds as well as well?
@@PoutingScoutim not a fan of it but to say its the worst in the characters history is a huge exaggeration.
Keep in mind Bats has been around since 1939 and at multiple times in history had anywhere from 1 to like 5 ongoing series at a time plus elseworlds, 1 shots, and mini series.
Personally I think its still better than 75% of Tom Kings run lol
@@joeclarke7982 cool so bring up all the goofy shit. The failsafe story is equally as goofy. “Oh bro Batman but his mind in a robot and he tried to Take over” is definition dork shit.
Zatanna took a lot of garbage from every BatFamily member for a long time afterwards. Some of them even blame her specifically for Bruce's ramped up paranoia that led to some of his more questionable life choices.
I mean she is kinda responsible
Bruce was already paranoid but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to trust anyone but what they did just pushed him over the edge
@@sinxpride6910and the one who betrayed him was one of his closest froends.
It only gets wirse when its revealed she did it to Catwoman aswell.
@huntertezz
I believe Catwoman mentioned this specifically when she knocked her out, tied her up, and left her in a landfill
@@BHRamsaygood
Nah, his paranoia did that to him !
Doing it to dr light was bad enough, but doing it to Batman? A friend?
And the one guy with multiple failsafes against getting his mind wiped or controlled 😂
How did he pull his funding if he lost his memory? Wouldn't he also lose his bank account?
@@pyros4333they didn't turn him into a vegetable, they just wiped the incident from his memory. Still horrible.
Ironic that Batman in the future end up brainwashing his son Jason Todd with a failsafe so he will get panic attack when his adrenaline spike that he would not be able to fight back.
@@somethingoriginal390 but again how would he even pull his funding if he never remembered the incident…..
Wouldn't be the first time Zatanna's poor sense of judgment caused a lot of problems down the line, like how when Raven first showed up to ask for help against Trigon and Zatanna went all Mermaid Man on her and went "EEEEEEVIL! EEEEEEVIL!" until Raven left.
What comic did this happen in? What issue?
I mean she faces demons on the regular, imagine walking up to a girl and feeling the magical aura of a 5th Dimensional Demon inside a seemingly flimsy crystal attached to the moody girls head.
Should've gone to batman the guy who even tries to reform villains and demons at least he understands
From the sound of things it wasn’t directly her decision. She’s just the one they called to do the wiping because doing this via magic would likely make it harder to not only trace, but notice to begin with. If Martian Manhunter did this it would likely have different ramifications and they probably wanted this to be as permanent as possible
@@raymondfisheriii791 no she is, at this point in time she had also done it to Catwoman (this is the entire reason she was a hero at this point in time)
Did he come up with the contingency plans before or after this happened because if it's after he fully justified and they are plain hypocrites.
The tower of babel happened before and it was with a different team of leaguers
@@facundochiari1118but wasn't this a flashback long into the past?
@@roydonarthur153 Oh, even then, it was with a different team of leaguers
It's justified before too superman gets mind controlled every week
@@facundochiari1118 the problem was it was only after all the trouble that the one whose fault it is came up to Batman apologized to him and asked to not blame the league just blame her
this is how captain america would've reacted had doctor strange not erased his mind of all knowledge of the illuminati fast asf😹
And they turned him into their worst nightmare. Didn't help that we had infamous Ironman at the end either.
@@Tetsujinhanmaaillumanti ironically r evil and incompetent there so arrogant it messed with ther intelligence and it's pretty funny that's how u dumn down a smart character while not making them dumb just using arrogance
umm did you forget how he found out later and went off on them bro
@@LohengrinX14 Yeah from memory Cap does eventually find out and goes absolutely postal.
funny how when you decide to mind wipe people that trusted you and it inevitably backfires you eat dirt and suffer just punishment for such a personal betrayal.
Are you gonna cover the aftermath of this when Light went after the Teen Titans to get back at the League?
Possibly, it’s a RUclips “nono” to talk about what Light did.
@@DanExclaims what exactly did he do that was that bad
@@JustinObi54
He said in his pinned comment.
@@DanExclaims
You could leave that part out, maybe. I’d be interested.
May I have the Comic issue plz?
He pulls his funding?! Nah its over.
All he needs to now is "leak" the identities of the entire League save Superman.
Honestly, if Batman had at least an ounce of the ruthlessness of Owlman, he'd be a lot better off.
@@julianmcmillan2867
His would also be leaked.
Not really. The League had alternatives.
@@bobfg3130 honestly, I don't think except for some people like clarck, diana and wally not even JL know his secret identity
It's crazy how people with mind abilities in comics almost always use them to hurt the people they care about.
The Pied Piper is the exception that proves the rule.
Emma Frost, did she ever do anything bad with her Telepathy?
feels like thats on the writter
@@phillipjackson3498a lot. She was a villain for a long time.
I get the thinking process, most telepaths will do anything without consequences, that's a hard thing to resist...
The most controversial thing here is hawkman having that weird eyeball in his mask design
Would a Batman punch even hurt Hawkman?
@publiusventidiusbassus1232 I never thought about that, but in reality hawkman has the nth metal which makes him one of the most unhurtable being in the world
@@publiusventidiusbassus1232Hurt? Probably not. Throw him back? Probably yes.
I don't really have a lot of empathy for dr. Light but Batman....the worst part is how helpless Batman must have felt at that moment.
That's why he hates magic so much and doesn't let it get in Gotham.
@@thefunnymofo7857he’s also banned from using it
His fault.
Doesn't want to kill but when they find a way to get rid of the problem, he goes into a rage and tries to take them out
@@lasttrinity0780 Is he the government? He'd be actively committing a crime by murdering someone
@@lasttrinity0780Yes because they are wrong. What's so hard to understand about this? They're heroes. Their job is to protect people. They don't kill and they don't lobotomize people. The fact that they even thought about doing this let alone fix it is absurd. Hell if I were Batman, I would've exposed all their secret identities and given them my failsafe plans
Batman was in the right. Lobotomies are fuck up as hell, and erasing someone’s memories and personality is evil af
Hell yeah dude, lights a piece of shit but what they did is so fucking wrong
@@DanExclaims honestly it’s just as bad as what he did for them to think it was necessary. Violation of a person’s autonomy on an intimate level like that is abhorrent
@@someonebored0100yea but it should’ve been either imprisonment for life or if it comes down to it execution
@@someonebored0100erasing someone’s memory is not a necessary evil in this situation or almost any situation
@@someonebored0100that’s beyond silly. Predators like that don’t change and that would be the least of what he deserves.
I thought that man was just a goofy TTG villian who raven would randomly kill😭
That's what they turned him into
They kept it in TTG but also in the comics Dr. Light went inexplicably from one of JLA's adversary to Teen Titan's punching bag. Here's the reason he changed.
Well yeah he was a threat, Then they.
Fixed it so now he's a punching bag.
Doctor light absolutely deserved that especially after what he did, but honestly they should have just killed him it seems like it would have been way less messed up than labotamizing him.
Also them mind wiping Batman is inexcusable he's their teammate and friend.
The fact that they mind wipe Batman that alone tells me that they themselves don't even think that they were doing the right thing, it was incredibly cowardly of them to try and hide what they did.
It was kinda messed up to see them kinda do something incredibly unnatural and personal to Bruce while you remember that they did this Because Sue experienced something similar m
And it doesn't even help the victim.
Dr. Light returned.
And even if he didn't, they just let him go around being a ticking time bomb
Brother, killing and mind wiping is some of the fucked up shit you can do. These are super hero’s, there almost as bad as the people that abuse their power. They wouldn’t have mind wiped someone if the victim was just some random person on the streets.
@@noobyskeletongamer3870
Heroes.
“He pulls his funding”
Green arrow and aquaman: shit I gotta start paying rent 😭
I like the first half of Identity Crisis but it really just went sort of off kilter but I’d never seen a story outside of HUSH that made me go “ya know maybe Bruce isn’t crazy to have these back up plans”
Batman's contingencies were a good idea from the start.
Superman and Wonder Woman regularly get mind controlled. The Flash regularly screws the timeline, depending on the version, Green Lantern regularly becomes either a Yellow Lantern and kills a bunch of people or hooks up with a minor (Hal Jordan).
If I was Batman, knowing the abilities and vulnerability of these literal gods in terms of moral correctness, I would too try and figure out some plans to deal with them from the getgo.
@@julianmcmillan2867 To be fair its a miracle that Batman has controlled himself and not deleted some of the JL. Flash especially, dude is more of a loose cannon and threat to reality than 95% of villains.
@@julianmcmillan2867 It was a good idea on paper until it got stolen, which honestly sound a lot easier to happen than a hero getting mind controlled.
Oddly enough, this happened to Captain America. When he confronted the illuminati.
If anyone wants to know the repercussions,
Basically every villain got paranoid that they had been mind controlled/wiped or even turned (catwoman) as well so basically they became an army under lex luthor
Actually that's a good point for consequences to this.
But how did they find out about it?
@@DkKombo cause Dr light got his memories back?
@@LMCShweep
Oh that would make sense
@@LMCShweep though if I recall correctly, it turned out to not be the Luthor everyone thought they were uniting under.
Its worth noting Clark almost went into a blind rage aswell. I believe it was this series, when he found out what they did to Brce and he gently as he could, confronts the league about it, and Green Lantern puts his hand on Clarks shoulder to say “it was the only way” only for Clark to grab his hand and break it, following up with “Do. NOT. Touch. Me.” His eyes glowing red. It cuts to the rest of the league, who rightfully, are about to wet themselves at this sight.
And suddenly the contigency plans make sense
Until Failsafe.
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Bruce didn't create Failsafe. Zur-En-Arrh did in case batman ever broke his no kill rule. Ironically though, Bruce used Failsafe to beat Zur-En-Arrh lol.
@@themanwhocantbemovedbyatru1988 Is it a bad thing that I don't like the way that entire story ended? That entire climax just reeked of Idiot Plot for me. Is that a bad thing?
@@SabeNo-rh7mbI honestly understand you, a lot of what happened in that story and what led up to it just felt off I guess or weird
Only because it's done to Batman
I can't take Hawkman seriously with them goofy ahh bird eyes on his helmet. Put a mirror in front of him and he'll start trying to peck his reflection.
Wow the justice league went way too far at least they haven't gone as far as professor X
Damn but no you're right you valid for saying that he literally started orphanage to prove he was a good father to his son
@@Knight_Night25 I know professor X is really the worst basically abandoning his son to start an orphanage is just one of hundreds of cases that professor X probably deserves to go to hell
@@Raptermonster24 I'm going to be completely honest with you I may not be a mutant but magneto brought up some very good points like the whole world trying to destroy mutants and heels like hell no you think I'm going to let you destroy us
@@Knight_Night25 yeah magneto is right I agree but they play him as the villain so the X-Men don't kill the avengers and fantastic four like we all know they could
@@Knight_Night25he has good points but terrible execution. That is the very essence of his character
Honestly, I don't blame them. Not just Dr Light, numerous villains found out secret identities and the same thing happened to them.
You can't blame them for Dr. Light. Dude was heinous. But you _can_ blame them for Batman. If they had gone to him first instead of trying to sneak some revenge in, then Batman might have agreed. Hell, he might have had a better solution.
@@ClockworkGearheadNah Batman is mentally insane and stupid
Bro doesn't want to kill NO MATTER WHAT
because he himself says he is too mentally ill to control himself and will go insane murdering everything where the punishment does NOT fit the crime.
BUT then he forces this flawed idea on everyone else
because the writers want to keep Joker as the villain to Batman
and they can't do that if Batman just kills all his villains that cause genocides.
@@Ardeleus and dr light would have been better off in a custom made prison for life rather then this lobotomy which DIDNT WORK.
and like clockwork orange just made him go aftetr the titans to do his disgusting work again.
@@Ardeleus that's bad writing
@@Ardeleus out of character moment for batman. No where in that quote did he say he was going to go on a killing spree if he killed.
Poor Wally having to deal with this shit
I just look up what dr. Light did wtf how is he on teen Titans and Go 💀
Guess his obscurity before those shows made that fact disappear or something, idk it’s still weird and fucked tho.
And Damian does the exact same thing with his little band of miscreants. And one of them, not in the loop, ties them all up and reads them the riot act.
When?
Is this durring that bad Teen Titans run where they put Damian in a suicide vest?
And then everyone’s like “haha oh Bruce you’re so paranoid”.
I don't feel bad for Light at all....i feel bad for his victims and the future victims. Why is it that people frel bad for the person doing the terrible crime but never the victim?
Storytelling rarely focuses on them
Pretty sure any villain doing any crime would have worked for this story, since it's mostly about what the JL was doing. Storywriter went with Dr Light and his particular crime to try to add a bit of 'moral grey area'.
Saying people like batman and superman dont stick around to arrest the villain or cleanup after the fight is some of the dumbest shit ive ever heard
Based on what Dr.Light did things should have been removed other then his memories
Imagine hurting the guy bankrolling the entire JL. It's not just evil, it's incredibly stupid.
They probably had alternative sources.
God, Identity Crisis was just... The worst. Green Arrow is SO OOC here
Green Arrow is a maniac in this lol
I mean hot take but Green Arrow was always a jerk in the comics at least his early versions of him.
@@Ketharuil GA always seem to suffer this, if the writer doesn't like him (specially for political reasons) he'll make everything he can to destroy Ollie image
@@kwayneboy1524it’s good that they made him not an ass in more recent comic runs, which I like
@@kwayneboy1524the very first iteration which was short lived to say the least
I don't blame the Justice League for this. I mean, top 10 smartest men alive, and he still didn't ask where some of thier villains were going.
And thats Damian is why dad does his contingency plans
Damien be like, well if he hadn't flown into a rage and saw it reasonably, then i wouldn't have been an issue
Idk man, is giving him a new shot at a brand new life worse than locking him in some cell or magic box for the rest of his life? Its a pretty gray zone i think
That a good point no cap
The league aren't the law. They can't just do that to someone they've already beaten. No matter how fucked up the the crime they did.
If say, they were doing this in a fight, and this was the only way to defeat Dr light, then fine.
But no, the context is very different. They could've easily turned him in to the authorities. They took it way to far. And even more so when Batman arrived.
They effectively murdered him. If you erase a person’s mind and memories then replace them with a new mind and memory you essentially killed someone and put someone else in their place.
@@shadewolf0075 that's highly debatable
@@anthonym9977maybe they should do stuff like this because it's kinda unrealistic if they didn't.
Maybe them not doing this is outdated way pf writing a story.
This is why Batman has Project Omega in case of a thing like this
I get that they lobotomized Light so hed never do anything like this again but...seriously just break his l4 vertebrae and call it a night
It didn't stick either. He got his memories and personality back
Batman got his back broken and got better so that wouldn't work.
"ALFRED GIVE ME THE AGAMEMNOS CONTINGENCIES FOR EVERYONE BUT WALLY"
"sir you don't have one for Mr. West"
"that's because he's the team's moral center, oh yeah also leave Clark's off"
"sir Mr. Kent's contingency plan just says 'Jump him'"
“Alfred… they’re all yours. I’m going to bed, I don’t want to see you on the news in the morning.”
The fat farm boy will never see it coming
@@WannabeWryter He specifically left Clark out of it. Clark was also incensed by what they did and quit the justice league over their betrayal of Bruce.
Batman: how dare you use questionable tactics on me thats my job
They didn't kill them. Batman would do the same thing if you let him.
But HE BATMAN so it fine.
@Coswalker27 batman wouldn't do that (well 99% of the time) it is killing them, the person who they were dies.
@@Coswalker27No he wouldn’t.
@@Coswalker27If you think Batman in character would ever do that, you know him even less than most writers nowadays
@@connorharnage6697 you need to search his contingency plan for Star fire.
He definitely would
I know it’s been done several times, but we need a team of heroes that’s okay with doing things like mind wiping villains. A team that will stay long term.
So…did Batman and Superman start staying for the cleanup after the dust settled? This seems like the sort of logic that would be sometimes shown by Amanda Waller prior to her just being flanderized to hell and back. Cold and awful, but arguably also logical and perhaps necessary. Fighting crime is one thing, but if you don’t do at least *something* to try to prevent it from happening again, your fight is kind of pointless once it’s clear that it’s not going to be effected without post-fight action.
If theres one thing Batman hates more than almost anything else, it's when you mess with his mind.
I'm pretty sure the only reason Batman's mad is because making big decisions behind people's backs his HIS thing.
Why is everyone making excuses for dr light saying what he did was bad but didnt warrant that it absolutley did he is a monster who ruined sue dibneys physcy with his actions and countless more with him also being a murderer
Although mind wiping batman is messed up
@@giornogiovanni3379wha I'm saying. Bro deserved what was coming too him and he had it coming but also Batman didn't deserved to be mind wiped to begin with. I don't do good with SA stories and it makes sick to my core but if it is done right I will sit and watch or read it just to see the bastard get the karma they deserve
There were other ways to stop bruce
I think because it highlights a flaw I have noticed in the heroes in DCU which is they can get away with everything to honestly a scary degree and while yeah this was fine them mind whipping Bruce kinda proves they operate on a pseudo might makes right mentality.
Does it HELP her that he is running free and could do the exact same thing again?
That he doesn't know he even did it, nor was punished for it.
They killed his mind and put a different personality in there.
But did they get everything?
Is the new personality worse?
It doesn't even stick.
And then they let him freely run around the TEEN Titans, while he knows what they did and is out for revenge.
It screams incompetence and that the league doesn't know what they are doing.
I think I'm the only one here that doesn't care that doctor light was lobotomized😅.
This is a lot of shit, Batman has been shown multiple times to personally deal with the imprisonment of supervillains
True. He has to deal with arkum daily. He probably takes some of them to Arkum often.....
@jakestaples93 and on top of that I seem to remember in the comic books he would regularly do the rounds of the JLA Watchtower cells
My question is why not just use the phantom zone for villains who refuse to change?
@@3limin8ted89 exactly, not to mention they have access to space, they could build a fortress on the moon they could find some uninhabited planet
I don't care what they say about Dr. Light his SA of Sue Dibny was one of the best sub plots in the history of comics.
And the reason why I say that is because it opens up *SO* many possibilities.
It caused Batman to leave the Justice League. It caused Superman to leave. And it bought up the question "what do we do with super villains who attack our loved ones" which is something comics had never really tackled before. It really was an interesting premise but I don't think readers were ready for it at the time.
What is OMAC project?
Imma use your comment as a reply for a short! I got you :D
@@DanExclaims ha, sorry but this is the first time i hear this, how to use as a reply to a short? Maybe im to dumb.
@@teobratuteodor1728He’s going to make a fully separate video to answer your question. There’s probably too much to explain clearly in a RUclips comment.
The OMAC project was Batman’s personal spy satellite. It was meant to keep tabs on all of Earth’s metahumans to make sure no superheroes would cross the line. It’s the Skynet of the DC universe, read Infinite Crisis for more!
@@detectivec3po396 oh thanks, is like a better Brother Eye.
Batman is the worst person to be on a team with
Dan! Can u make a video abt the Godzilla crossover with the justice league?
When half of the Justice League decided to lobotomize doctor light. I didn't see it as confrontational I've seen it as doing the right thing because he was a s-assaulter and assaulted Elongated man's wife at their base.
The problem then becomes where do we draw the line? And what happens if we cross it. Do we just allow them to have this authority to do it to say. Captain cold or Catwoman for minor crimes.
I 100% am for disposing of rapists. But you have to understand there's a line that needs to be held and maintained in these convos
Yeah but then they made him fight their young hero knowing full well what hes capable of. My biggest problem is why let him back out on the streets.
The league aren't judge, jury, and executioner. They're just people protecting people. They're not the law.
Erasing his memories and personality is essentially killing him and replacing him with someone else. He can't exactly live with the consequences of his actions if they do that. Zatanna wanted her cake and to eat it.
@@YEs69th420living with the consequences? Does he even feel remorse for his actions? How’s elongated wife gonna feel when she sees him again back on the streets doing whatever the fuck he feels like?
I see both sides
Well......bye!!! Lol! I always disliked batman anyway. Thousands of innocent lives have been taken over and over again cause he won't delete certain villians who shoulda been deleted long ago. Woulda saved a lotta families a lotta unnecessary pain and heartache
That's so weird,I just reread this yesterday. Just leaving and depending on the rest of the team to deal with the responsible parts gives off a superiority vibe. That was a deep story.
Who do you think pays for the damages their fights cause??? Wreck a whole city and rack up billions of dollars worth of debt and BATMAN pays it off and you think letting them handle where the villains get sent to is superiority complex at it's best?
Respectfully if you take away clark and bruce
70 percent of JL is gone the rest comes in 30 percent
Not to mention the amount of money bruce spends on these btches and JL it anything they're the ones who actually do less
@@3fua145 I think he is saying that Batman and Superman have superiority complex, because they don't deal with the criminals after a mission.
@@thescorgon5964 i understand that. Superman does the heavy lifting(literally being the heaviest hitter) and batman pays for all the damages they cause, cut them some slack
@@3fua145 which reinforces the Superiority complex.
Didn't agree with Batman here. What were they supposed to do? Let a crazed supervillain who knows their secret identities go out and possibly tell others? He lives in such a fantasy world. Look what happened to Jim and Barbara. To Jason. Batman is really an asshole of a character who has the stupid standards but the only reason he can live with them is because he's alone most of the time. He doesn't have that many people who are civilians in his life. He's able to have a devil may care approach to things. To be honest Ralph could have killed Light and literally pled temporary insanity due to crime of passion. I guarantee you nobody would vote guilty. Batman of course would be upset but then we could just get Hal to punch him in the face again.
Isn't Batman the same guy who has a spray that can erase the last 5 minutes of your memory,and was jason really the first person he brainwashed? Also, i didn't remember him having an issue with league psychics breaking into peoples minds to extract information even if it leaves them in horrible states like what ms martian was doing in young justice
He didn't have an issue with mindwashing Dr light he was pissed they wiped his mind simply because he didn't agree with them
But was it really necessary to wipe his memory not to mention they intended it to last forever zatana is a magician any simple binding or sleeping spell will do but no we will permanently wipe off memory of a guy who has what it takes to destroy all JL and what clean up he pays for it and evrything if anything they're the ones who aren't doing sht and it's not like he he sit back and relax in fights
No he's actively on the frontlines
Now I agree with your point on Dr light he should've let it happen
@@sinxpride6910 after they wipe batmans mind and he finds out i think that's when he creates tower of babel protocol
Terrible cape comic crap
Dr. Light should have been ended and Batman should have sat the hell down and shut the hell up.
Garbage way over hyped and written Batman as per the typical cash cow milking garbage of cape comics.
I think all the Crisises work best as standalone stories and ignore the stupid things they do to canon. 😊
The Justice League was totally in the right to do what they did to Doctor Light. Hell, he deserved worse for what he did. If Batman had cared he would not have had a problem with it. He takes justice into his own hands when ever he goes out as Batman. So who is he to judge them for erasing Doctor Lights Mind. Batman brainwashed Jason in the future to have a panic attack to so he cant fight back. And people saying it may have been Bruce's body but not his mind. He choose to make Zur En Arrh so yes its still Batman who choose to brain wash Jason.
-Lobotomizing people is bad!
-Just for that you get lobotomized as well!
Can you really call him paranoid when he's right?
Except he fucking attacked them and treated them like villans.
Also, calling Light a "person" after he did is sick
@@lasttrinity0780 Just stop.
@@lasttrinity0780 Just stop.
@@nkemnoraulmanfredini7286 wtf you care what I do?
@@lasttrinity0780 ofc he gonna attack when he teleport in expecting to help out the clean up just to see his teammates lobotomised the mf, dr light is piece of shit but doesn’t excuse them doing lobotomised on the him
Great story and art. Miss these comics
Identity Crisis was sooo many levels of unnecessary, can't believe the writer got awards for that shit.
Still think Dr. Light deserved that ngl
I'm all against changing someone's personality. personally all the crap that Dr. Light has done, same with the joker or basically nearly any gothem villian. Should put them into deathrow.
I never liked the idea that not killing these absolute psychos, is somhow moral.
I have said it once and I will say it again. Batman has let more people die because he would not kill someone.
Batman use to be my hero, until i came to see he is just as bad as his rogue gallery. For his code he lets thousands die. When keeping your code cost the lives of innocent, what kind of hero are you?
I’m sorry but this is the kind of BS reasoning that leads to vigilantes that go around murdering innocent people because they “think” their victims were bad guys. You might think it won’t but Batman ditching his code leads to things like every one in Arkham including both patients and staff to be massacred regardless of if what the did means that they should die or not
Even our old heros have been made monsters 😢
Erasing Dr. Light's identity wasn't necessarily a bad choice, and I would guess Batman didn't have a problem with it so much as with the league taking that decision into their own hands.
Bruce is typically shown to be very aware of the slippery slope most superheroes stand at the top of. He knows how easy it would be to take 'law' and 'justice' into their own hands, and doesn't trust anyone to remain true to their original purpose after taking such a step. Especially himself.
A distrust that's proven correct in storyline after storyline, to be fair.
Didn’t Batman do the same thing to red hood?
I know that was zur manipulating him, it is still hypocritical
It's not and you that but of course it's trendy to put dirt on Batman
It’s not.
What Batman did to Jason he did while not within his right mind and more than a decade after identity crisis.
Batman had an extremist plaguing his mind, driving him insane, and causing him to act out of character as he states himself.
The league simply wanted to hide their dirty laundry.
It’s not the same thing.
@@silver______ plus Batman didn’t erase Jason’s memory and personality he just infused fear toxin into his adrenaline glands
To be fair, Zatanna wasn't *intending* nor *trying* to lobotomize Dr. Light. She was trying to remove his memory of assaulting Sue and of the secret identities of the other League members that he'd acquired while he was on the satellite. The muddying of his intellect was an unintentional side effect.
Now, when she lets herself get talked into attempting to use magic to help reform some of the villains (the The Top), *that* was deliberately doing something deeper and more questionable than securing data or not letting a SA perpetrator savor the memory of his crime, and this was the start of a slippery slope, but she didn't mean to mess up his mind, and the Justice League didn't "decide to lobotomize Dr. Light".
Bruce's biggest problem is that he thinks him payrolling stuff makes him everyone's boss and substitutes that for actually interacting with his peers.
Meanwhile Clark is like "I cooked dinner. You guys are doing the dishes." Which is fair.
Yeah it does make him a boss not to mention the clean up they cry about is paid by him the damages they do is paid by him
Their tech is paid by him and let me tell you that's what a boss does
You work he pays and he is frontlines every fckin time
Go cry about it it's them who actually aren't doing sht
Oh yeah no, Batman would totally be absent for the cleanup.
I mean not like he fucking witness the trial of every single Gotham villain personally or anything…. Oh wait!…
Seriously, when writers does this shit, it’s so annoying.
Personally i find this extremely hypocritical, like he had the whole contingency plans thing, but when someone else is behind his back (only because he doesn't do the clean up) then he's angry.
And the fact that his zur personality did the exact same thing, yet he didn’t flag it as that bad, just because it was him doing it.
they were giving light a fate worse than death
Plans were made after the mind wipe
Why should he clean up?
He fckin pays for the cleanup,the damages
Whole JL is funded by him
Every major or minor battle he's in the frontline
But the thing is it's trendy to hate Batman and you just simply following it
@@ked49He did flag it as Bad.
Bruce literally left Gotham.
Left the family.
Apologized to Jason.
And hid in an old cabin because he knew his actions were wrong.
What else do you want him to do?
Yell at himself?
Spank himself?
I mean let’s be real for a sec, one can only punish themselves so much.
Difference is those contingencies don’t involve lobotomy, and they were made after identity crisis within the timeline.
Batman was lobotomized *Then* he made the contingencies.
So it’s not hypocritical, one’s being safe rather than sorry due to prior experience.
The others are lobotomizing people behind the leagues back, including teammates.
If you have an insanely powerful and dangerous individual PROVEN to use their immense power to abuse the helpless
as a MONSTER
what the Justice League did was valid.
Mind melting and reshaping Dr Light into a person who WON'T abuse and hurt powerless innocents.
And to be honest? Batman is straight doo doo in the head.
The Joker should be dead.
But Batman will PROTECT THE JOKER because the writers want the Joker as a constant nemesis.
Batman is mentally insane
so he creates the No Kill rule FOR HIMSELF
because he can't control himself and will just go on murder rampages where the crime does NOT fit the punishment because Batman is actually a peanut brain from writer-syndrome.
and yet he FORCES THIS ON OTHERS.
So from how stupid the writers made Batman's ideology and his No-Kill rule reasoning,
Batman would've opposed ending the reign of a superpowered MONSTER who did nasty things to powerless women.
You see this would not happen with the Avengers. They have SHIELD's procedures to fall back on if they have any questions about what to do. The Avengers are generally BADLY written when they are allowed to do whatever they want. As separate heroes that is fine. But not as the group.
This in contrast to the JLA, who are basically trying to be better than a Superpowered Neighborhood Watch, that really has no set bylaws or procedures, that is independent of any one or two person's say so, to guide or direct when they are not sure what to do.
This same thing happened to captain America.
Yeah, no, this could still happen with the Avengers because the avengers aren't a part of S.H.I.E.L.D. The avengers work with shield but they don't need to listen to their procedures. Hell it happened to cap when he ran afoul of the Illuminati a subset of The avengers (iron man, professor x, Black panther, and Namor (a old partner of Caps from world War II IE the Invaders)
@@kaelhyun2401
It is not a matter of the Avenger being part of SHIELD, but having SHIELD's rule book to work from when the Avengers need to know what to do in some weird/awkward/unforeseen by them situations.
Also, the Illuminati are not part of the Avengers or SHIELD. As the name implies they are a group of people who, think that are vastly better than everyone else, meet in secret because what they intend to do would upset the "lesser people" greatly, and will do (did do) things that are demonstratively evil for "the greater good". This is why World War HULK stomped them out. They could have exiled him and if they had better made his ship, maybe if flies away so HULK could never come home that way, or could not be turned into a bomb (Miek's doing. Yeah, that little bug dude was really dark in the comics) the HULK would have been happy on the opposite side of the galaxy. The Illuminati just made stuff up as they went along and merely trusted than everyone was on the same page.
Okay, I get that Dr. Light did something terrible, but mind-wiping Batman?!? A friend and the guy providing your funding?!?
I’m supporting the complete dismantling of the Justice League at this point.
The mind wipe is way to lenient here.
It essentially wiped away the crime instead of punishing them.
Unfortunately they weren't allowed to kill him an jail in comics is basically a weekend vacation for villains so it was the best option especially as Light had private information on heroes.
It was the best option Batman whining about it is really stupid cause what else were they supposed to do let light go to jail and tell everyone how he did elongated man's wife and where they live smh
@@liberleo1384Yes. Lock him up. That's where he belongs. Besides the League can just erase that knowledge from him. Nobody's complaining about that. They're complaining that they took it too far. Batman had every right to call the League out on their shit
@@connorharnage6697
Ah yes lock him up cause that works 😑
When has prison ever worked in DC if it did anything then joker wouldn't be a problem neither would penguin, two face , ivy, Hugo,pyg,riddler, mad hatter, Harley Quinn, croc, scarecrow see a funny resemblance with all these people oh yeah they are all batman villains who constantly get outta jail each doing stuff equally if not worse then what light did.
Batman was against the mind wipe in general to the point he was about to attack zatanna hence why they restrained him it didn't matter how far they took it he was more then happy to just allow light to be locked up tell everyone all the heroes identities and escape again just like with joker all because of that stick in his rectum that makes him believe he's holier then thou despite being willing to do things just as bad as what they've done.
Batman was being a whiney brat like always denying the correct course of action instead of what's necessary to keep people safe all because of his trauma frankly Light should be six feet under a mind wipe is a blessing in comparison to what should be done to him but even then bats wouldn't be satisfied.
This was just a disgusting story as a whole. What followed and was included was interesting, but the idea of Dr. Light(a villain mostly known for fighting a group of teenagers) doing this, and the way it was revealed, and the situation around it being revealed, was just insanely stupid. Pretty much entirely relies on the idea that some of the smartest people in the entire DC universe couldn’t figure out how Sue was killed. And the idea of not only fridging her, but retroactively revealing she was the victim of something that horrible and no one mentioned it for years feels really gross. And Deathstroke’s ability to beat the entire Justice League is so goddamn stupid. I don’t care how much the writers love Slade, if he could always overpower the will of Kyle Rayner he would’ve gotten a ring years ago.
Sorry, that’s a bit of a rant, I just feel like this story is *not* one that we should be giving retroactive appraisal. It’s a lot like DC’s version of Civil War. A story that’s sort of a post-Dark Age attempt to engage with that method of storytelling with a 21st century modernism. And like Civil War, it’s also really heavy on shock while light on substance. I’ll say, though, we can definitely look at the great stories that followed as only possible because someone took the plunge to see how far they could go. Doesn’t mean that they ended up coming back up for air, but still.
This story is definitely Something that will shock you.
Nah, I am not with Batman on that one.
Sure he can be angry for what they did to him but he can't be angry about Dr. Light because he refuses to kill criminals and they always escape prison. Dr. Light made it his mission to terrorise Su and Batman wasn't going to give any solutions !
So basically they were in a way letting him get away with it, man I would have wanted blood and then some
And naturally it didn't stick.
The mind override got reversed and Dr. Light decided to go after the TEEN Titans as revenge.
Because Zatanna is incompetent and doesn't know spells fail ALL THE TIME. Despite it being half her damn job to deal with failed magic.
@@SpectralKnight
Should have just asked Klarion
Don't worry, the Specter paid him a visit
You all sit there and complain about how all Batman does is imprison his villains and they keep escaping, what is he really doing. He should just kill them. When the JL does exactly what you guys ask for you guys judge them and not try to understand. You aren't them, you aren't going through what they are going through, dealing with what they have to deal with mentally, physically and emotionally.
Batman act’s like a baby yet again and writers/fans bend over backwards to make him look reasonable
identity assassinating a villain is one thing, but trying to brainwash a fellow leaguer Batman to cover that is an entirely different thing. To me, it crossed the line so hard. It reminds me of the Young Justice show where Miss Martian did this to Superboy. Huge no
Batman would agree if he were written consistently
Very true. Batman himself knows how much of a menace he can be if other heroes don't follow his personal code. He would either have regretfully accepted it like he eventually did with Maxwell Lord, or agreed that being mindwiped bought the Earth many years with a Batman that helps the Justice League protect the Earth without such enormous caveats
No he wouldn't. Lobotomizing someone may as well be killing them and Batman wouldn't stand for that
And he was written consistently here, too. If they wanted to operate secretly, and handle things personally, then they should have stayed out of the JLA. The JLA had a higher standard and they betrayed it.
@ClockworkGearhead What standard? They're superheroes, not gods. They can't control every situation, and they cannot toss aside the countless lives lost when someone capable of genocide or constantly killing loved ones of heroes escapes constantly.
Batman always has to be in the wrong 99% of the time otherwise there are no reoccurring villains, and eventually, no comics.
Living in the DC world is like living in hell. So many beings have turned the world upside down in continuous continuity that everyone should have PTSD. Imagine everyone on earth having hundreds of either vivid or vague memories of the most horrific invasions or end of the world scenarios.
Striving for an ideal, but willing to be real with oneself to actually do something proactive to make the world not a living hell, is the mark of a hero. Never looking for the easy way out, but not being satisfied with the world being in hell because you give villains a million extra chances cause a few crazy people like Batman say so.
And we recently learned he keeps Gotham and the entire world to a slightly lesser extent in perpetual purgatory, because an evil god named Barbatos compels him to. This is fully canon.
@@9751matt They're expected to control themselves. They didn't. You don't need to be a god for that.
I'm gonna call bullshit on the writing, Batman is exactly the guy who would meticulously figure out where every villain should go and how they should contained
Do you think after another massive event/reebot that comes this summer and begging of autumn dc will allow red robin to grow up and become pre flashpoint versions of themselves?
That would end my trust in them too not just the group but the people involved. Never again, messing with someones mind like this is so messed up on a fundamental level. Something like this dose make you look at his backup plans for the group and agree.
Some comic book writers don’t know how to write heroic struggles anymore. I don’t want some random writer deciding “Hey, let’s take this man of virtue and pure intent and completely butcher the point of his character because I want to talk about a personal story of mine that shares no characteristics with the character’s story. I mean, I could just create my completely original story with my own characters and struggles, but who would read it without the brand attachment?”
Do not write characters and their struggles unless you have a thorough understanding of who they are, what they believe, and (more importantly) what they would never do. That’s my personal take on the matter.
Batman and Superman don’t stay back to “clean up”? Are you serious. Super man doesn’t stay behind, are you serious. That is some plot bull shit.
What effect did it have on Bruce when it happened? I don’t mean later on, when he found out. Did it actually harm him, in & of itself?
Not really, but I believe that along side bruce discovering this he also discovered they manipulated Catwoman's mind to be more heroic, when she found out she no longer knew if she was better by her choices or theirs
@@newfanguyjackson4858
Oh, I didn’t know about that. And I do agree it’s very messed up, it’s completely understandable he wouldn’t trust them after that. I probably wouldn’t either (granted I’m generally more calm & reasonable than Bruce, they could just talk to me. But still…)
His mental state worsened severely, and he became extremely paranoid and distrustful.
@@somethingoriginal390
Was that before he realised anything happened or got reason to be suspicious that something did?
Bruce was extremely pissed and straight up pulled all of his funding of the league and left it because his trust in the JLA was completely destroyed. It lead to him making brother eye to spy on heroes. The bat family pretty much completely disavowed the league for what they did to Bruce and light alongside other villains
Fucking hell. Poor Elongated Man. He was literally a bro. And the stuff after this was even worse, wasnt it?
Batman and Superman are all high and mighty about what they will or will not do to criminals.
But Batman keeps letting Joker out to kill hundreds and hundreds.
I feel like giving a mind wipe and a new personality is entirely within the parameters of morality and keeping them safe and alive.
I'm just gonna say it, sometimes, Batman AND Superman are wrong about their moral code
i agree with the first part i HEAVILY disagree with the second mind altering is the same thing as APE to me.
its breaking someones inner self there soul to a shape you find more pleasing it wont last and its as cruel as a demon to do.
and it didnt dr light snapped out of it within months remebered wha happend then did awefull things to the teen titans as revenge on the league.
You know what I got to say Batman was ass Golden rage they did what they had to do he wasn't helping he did a horrible thing to the league's wife sometimes Batman makes the dumbest choices the lead to more problems serious problems. Yes I'm a fan of Batman but sometimes he needs to draw the line
I don’t blame them for doing that to Batman, he’s not the only millionaire on the team and yes he’s in the trenches ,but he’s responsible for letting menaces like the Joker live to murder more people. He’s inadvertently just as guilty as they are. What they did to Dr. Light prevents him from becoming a problem in the future. Batman got in the way and needs to work on how he can prevent his own rogues gallery from terrorizing more people. Even the Flash makes his rogues think twice before committing crimes. Batman has done horrible things to Jason let’s not forget.
Sure he's responsible for Joker's actions? Didn't you know Bruce Wayne is the Joker? Oh wait, no he isn't. Stop trying to throw responsibility off the psycho clown onto the guy who stops him
You're wrong about.
Batman and jason but whatever. It ain't so black and white buddy.
Batman always extra responsibility for joko.He just doesn't do the one thing.He literally swore he'd never do on that. Joker actually is trying him to get him and everyone else to break because he knows it'll make him a worse person for it.
Superhero super heroes that kill, kill everybody
Tell me you don’t read Batman without telling you don’t read Batman
The more I read comics, the more I realize batman is kinda usless without his money.