Idiots can be witty. If he is talking bodybuilding it's fact based, but from this, but I noticed alot of the other topics on this show, all his thoughts come from his own ideas without any facts behind his thoughts.
Once he pointed it out, I realized Dr. Mike sounded different compared to his usual interviews. Of course, his Renaissance fitness videos are likely scripted which helps but his ADHD was in full force during this conversation. In his other videos he’s still funny but more concise in his explanations
I would like to think that these discussions are outlined a bit before they start filming, but Dr. Mike definitely speaks off the cuff on subjects where harder data is really required in order to be an equal participant in the conversation. Doctor Mike does a great job of referencing data in order to challenge his guests and to hold them to account for their positions. Honestly, very enjoyable watch.
I understand that though. You can be “smart”, like you can rationalize things and make sense, and have all that built up knowledge from years of effort, but also realize your actual brain processors aren’t working as well as they used to. And THAT is frustrating.
They aren’t equally supported, though. One is grounded in practical, evidence-based science and the other is speculating about science fiction concepts.
My wife has loved Dr. Mike for years and I have loved Dr. Mike for years too. I never expected to see you two together. I’ll let you figure out who loves which one.
Are you sure you're not talking about Doctor Mike? It is almost infinetly more likely for a woman like your wife to be a fan of Doctor Mike, than Dr. Mike. Doctor Mike - biggest medical youtuber in the world, boxer, looks like a male model. Very much a typical healthcare physician and talks infinetly more about his "patients" that our bro science buddy. Dr. Mike Israetel - body builder, less into general healthcare and more into things that get you jacked and other fringe subjects. Has no "patients". Drugs like Trenbolone also have a negative effect on his "patience" as he would not give or prescribe it to anyone, it has no effect on his "patients". In fact, legally i do not believe he is allowed to have "patients" unless he has a very odd relationship with a lab rat.
Israetel might be yolked out of his gourd but the most impressive thing about him is just how adept at talking he is. He was born to be a speaker. He can deliver these long monologues off the cuff that most people would struggle with reading off a teleprompter. Just a master class in the art of public speaking.
It's definitely impressive. However, just as with his physique, I'm certain it came with years of practice. Obviously he's a smart guy, but even if you look back to his early social media speaking a few years ago there's a huge difference.
Honestly, he seems like a genuinely great and intelligent guy but I found out that he was quite repetative and went off on a tangent quite a few times.I felt like skipping ahead.
It is really nice to see Doctor Mike challenge Dr. Mike on some of his commendable, but sometimes assumption filled, optimism about acclimating and the way society advances. He assumes a linear progession and advancement for everyone, when the reality is that different people are affected very differently, and sometimes quite negatively, by certain things that are progessing in the world. Dr. Mike has been significantly benefitted, and deservedly so, by much of this and has a hard time seeing his bias. Ultimately, Dr. Mike is an incredible guy and deserves all the success he has achieved, but no one is perfect.
honestly this. Dr. Mike is overtly optimistic about all this cause whilst yes, we might have the capability to fix all these problems through pharmaceuticals, our world is ran on monetary incentives whether we like it or not. Is there truly an incentive to fix all these issues, which will likely lower prices and certain demand? Or is it more likely that the problems we have today get stretched out as far as it can because they make the most amount of money. And with AI, well it needs more data to train on than is humanly available. OpenAI is already close to bankrupcy because of the money spent on data centres. This idea that "oh AI will be the greatest thing ever" still has to contest with the fact that our mind, which AI basically tries to emulate, is so utterly complex that it's almost financially impossible to realistically keep something like that up, let alone train on it.
Yeah I think many people (especially with lower income) are still living in a world with some of our ancestral terrors. Getting enough food to survive, staying clear of "monsters" (violent partners) who seek to harm, scraping together money for life-saving medical care... Hopefully it quality of life can improve for *all*.
Thanks for your honesty. Doesn’t sound worth it at all. Sounds like only people with body dysmorphia would be willing to experience those side effects just for larger muscles and lower body fat. Like bulimics who are willing to destroy their bodies and tooth enamel (because of stomach acid) just to be smaller than most people can achieve with discipline and consistency alone. Only a person who is deeply mentally unwell would do that to themselves.
@@JellieJoShmo if athletics, physical performance in some way or just creating the most muscular body you can is the most important thing in your life that brings you satisfaction, then it makes complete sense to push into that direction as far as you can. unwell? if you absolutely love running and thats what you want to do for a living and for your free time, wouldnt it be insane to essentially not enjoy your life just because someone on the internet thinks their values are worth more? oh you spent 40 years of your life doing research, experiments or inventions to better the world? sucks to suck, i think thats worthless and you should have done what i did. see how this logic can be applied to anyone that specializes in a field and puts most of their effort into that.
It is absolutely spot on. I just came off of a tren cycle, and I cannot tell you how accurate the description is. Having to remind yourself that you like things, because they feel like a memory is hauntingly accurate.
@@JellieJoShmo unfortunately if you want to excel at certain sports, it’s eventually going to be one of those things that you start dabbling into. I highly recommend that you avoid it unless absolutely necessary though. It can dramatically shrink your lifespan, particularly if you use it heavily.
I love how many topics they were able to disagree on, present evidence and make arguments for, and stay cordial and keep asking eachother questions. Wow is this uncommon. I was swayed by both people and came out feeling informed to form my own opinion instead of just being lead along. Love this!
@@TheOddSnake Why should an artificial intelligence thats 1000x smarter than us, care about us? Humans are wired to have empathy & still most geniuses dont care about things that doesnt impact themselves. Especially with humanoid robots, that can do everything for the "godlike a.i." that he describes. As someone that works in computer science he seems deluded. First he doesnt understand how the current & near future artificial "intelligence" works & second, even if it would work like he proposes, it wouldnt make much sense for that intelligence to care about such a flawed species like humans. Even if you put a safety code, if the artificial intelligence is much smarter & able to evolve like HE dreams about, it would just overwrite it. He has a really oversimplified view on things that he clearly doesnt understand, respectfully.
I was immediately intimidated by Dr Mike’s comments on how he feels rage and such. But somehow the way he speaks is actually quite calm and soothing. He has a nice smile too. Definitely the coolest Dr Mikes on the planet.
Yeah, I get the personal goals he needs steroids for, but those psychological sides just seem awful to me. He's mentioned a few times that he plans to stop all PEDs in 2-3 years, hope he makes it there okay, he seems like a genuinely great guy.
@@SeuOu The guy must be really really sick when he openly speaks what the hell steroid use is and still uses them kind of joking how stupid he is since he wants to be jacked but psychologically and also somewhat chemically that gear dependency doesnt differ from alcohol or narcotic drugs (opioids etc) use. The dependency system is the same. He is addicted and yes he knows that but he doesnt speak so tha Im an addict and right place for me to go is AA, but Im just not ready yet.
@@aaronfelcity1403I would argue that his class consciousness shows in his comments about New York real estate. He believes that homelessness and even hunger in developed countries are artificially created as a product of politics and greedy business practice. He specifically says “in a proper free market economy” implying that is what we don’t have
Also huge props to watch an actual honest to goodness conflicting ideals “discussion” that isn’t two grown man talking over each other or yelling. I love love that a lot. Two true gents.
Whenever Dr. Mike talks about the steroid-induced anxiety he feels it makes me so sad. He seems like such a good person and has done amazing stuff for the fitness world, and I'm excited for him to "retire", go natural, and enjoy things again. This is a great chat to listen to, lots of love to Dr. Mike and Doctor Mike!
He really doesn't need to go natural. He could be on a decent dose of trt and still maintain 80-90% of his mass. What Mike will struggle with is. People know him as a mass monster. Especially because he's very short. His height will have impacted his confidence. We know we can't grow up after a certain age but we can grow everything else. It's an insecurity issue. He will end up with serious health issues and. Then decide to stop.
@@LL-hs4jo Exactly, there are certain steroids he's probably on like tren and/or npp/deca that are known to cause anxiety even at small doses let alone the high doses he's probably on due to being on contest prep.
I saw this somewhere else and I don’t remember who said it but I agree with them: “I want machines and AI to do my monotonous, repetitive tasks like washing my dishes so I can go do my creative and intellectual work like writing books and painting.” I feel like we’re seeing the reverse so far.
That’s what they’ll end up doing once actually applied, the professional art jobs will decline since the company just needs you to create their vision, but we will always value the depth of humanity and the beauty of our creativity
It’s easier because it’s software. Which readily available and cheaper. Once we get very good cheap robots then all the repetitive tasks will start being replaced.
@@NotEvenOverThere I'll add that this is due to the economics surrounding the film, tv, music, art industry than anything about what AI can do. WarnerBros, or Disney, or insert entertainment mega-corp of your choice don't exist to create artistic expressions, they exist to make money, the artistic expression are a side effect of that goal. AI lets them make more money albeit at the cost of artistic expression. AI isn't even the only thing to do this. Think about the conditions of VFX artists, I'll be the first of anyone to say that CGI hate is forced and that computer effects are just as valid a tool of filmmaking as modelmaking, set design, costume design, makeup, fight choreography, etc. But the reason VFX have become so prevalent is because they can do things for much cheaper than they otherwise would, they can do spectacular set pieces, Avengers, Top Gun, insert action movie. It would be preposterous in 1986 to do the things they do in Maverick with real planes, miniatures, green screens, motion control rigs, matte paintings, etc. You'd spend a billion dollars doing that in '86 dollars, and they can do the same thing nowadays, because upping the ante with a big setpiece is economically feasible for these companies now, all because they can treat VFX artists, modellers, rotoscopers, riggers, animators, etc like absolute dirt. Sure there's a spectrum at work here bewteen artistic vision and soulless corporate profit. But the profit motive is definitely a factor, and very often hampers the art.
I’m not even particularly interested in this field, but watching both of you clash on some contradicting ideas of each others, all whilst being absolutely respectful and professional was just refreshing. Also I’ve never seen a guy that looked like such a meathead be so educated and articulate, this was also refreshing.😂
You would be mindblown studying Paul Chek’s work look him up 💚🙏💚 just met the man when he was 63ish lifting more weights than anyone I know… and healthy and sharper than anyone! Truly amazing that we can be learning from People like this!
Watching this is really making me appreciate the psychological difference in someone with a medical degree, and someone with a PhD that does research. The MD guy interacts with sick people all day and addresses their health problems, turning him more pessimistic, and the research guy is aware of every new advancement coming out soon, and is optimistic of the effect of these advancements.
@@saram3156 Well, he said that progress can be exponential, and it has been in the past. For you, now, it might seem that 15 years is optimistic, until they (geneticists) or a colleague of theirs makes a breakthrough discovery that moves the field years or even decades forward. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens more often than people think.
@@saram3156 He still presents a lot of logical and reasonable viewpoints, however. I mean just look back on our history up until now. Just a handful of incredibly immense breakthroughs have literally changed the entire face of the world and society we now enjoy and take hella for granted today. Only a matter of time before another exponential increase in innovation happens, just a matter of when really.
This is a good point. Gene research has been advancing rapidly since the late 90s and early 2000s (Metal Gear Solid was nearly all about it for example). Dr. Mike being optimistic about drugs, gene therapy and AI is because he (as mainly a researcher) sees the potential applications in a way isolated from most “morality” or “politics”, though he does kinda tack on at the end of that bit that most governments probably won’t regulate things correctly to get the best outcomes for all. It’s like when people in the 20th century said the invention of machines would allow everyone to work 3-4 day weeks and have more time for leisure and spending money to make the economy work. Instead we’re all sleep-deprived pauper slaves to uncles Jeff, Elon and Zuck. Hustling and grinding 24/7. 🙄 This is where Doctor Mike’s pessimistic view from being in the real world comes from. Also Dr. Mike revealing he was pumped to the gills on freak PEDs made me a bit more forgiving of his tangents and slightly odd views. I don’t agree with a lot of them, but I don’t think he’s a bad guy, and he’s never claimed to be an expert in those particular fields anyway.
i love how they can both disagree with each other but in a mature manner that facilitates further conversation and thought about the topics. this was super interesting to watch
That's how people interact when they respect eachother, and are not online s huge amount of time. Compare that to *some* people kn reddit who will argue with you even if you make the same point!
What? You don't like when two people just start shouting and insulting each other for no reason? Where I'm from the debate doesn't start until punches are thrown 🤣
I was thinking he could easily inject 💉 dope in that vein .. i cant find a single vein in both my arms so that's why i was thinking like this 😅 May lord give me strength to quit 🙏🏼
@@BhattiJatt you gotta give yourself that strength, keep trying, try talking to someone about helping you quit, get your mind off it, because if you want to quit, you can, it will take a while, but I believe in you
@@BhattiJatt get on methadone brother. saved me from certain death with fentanyl. ill have tapered down and be completely off the methadone too within a few months
I honestly wish doctor mike spoke more, because he gave amazing counter points and I just know he has much more to say. I know he's kinda just conducting the interview, but I think we could've gained more from a bit more of his insight
Yep, it felt like Dr. Israetel was more talking about a utopian future, but only from the perspective he sees it. Data shows down, but he argues its just some form of anomaly.
I appreciate how Doctor Mike keeps bringing all of this back to real people right now and their real life experiences and challenges. The fact is we are sadder, lonelier, don't have access to medication, are baraged with charlatans, need purpose and challenges , are creative beings who don't want to be replaced by AI etc etc.
Agreed. I came here for Mike Isratel but I’m astonished at how wrong he is on all of that stuff. “One day they’ll realize that miserable childhood was the best thing that ever happened to them” 🥴
@@patstephens5444 To be fair, he said he would like to think AI will take care of all the work so we can dedicate our time to enjoying life, which is how I think it should be, we need more free time to be creative and do what we love. Now, by saying this he is stepping out of his area of expertise and also he is speaking from a clearly privileged spot. But to his credit, he is not claiming to have the absolute truth and is willing to listen to different opinions and change his mind, which I appreciate.
@@patstephens5444I agree with you. I really enjoy Dr. Mike's content and have learned a great deal from him about hypertrophy but he has strong biased and sometimes seems unaware of the limits of his own knowledge & experience.
Yeah Dr Mike (Bald) is shockingly closed minded philosophically. I'm a huge fan of him from an exercise science standpoint but when it comes to deeper meaning, he's all intelligence and no wisdom.
@@laceyo1993 Kinda odd take to call someone "closed minded philosophically" when philosophy is one of those things we haven't solved yet, there is no "right way to think" He just has a different outlook on things.
I expected this to be about exercise and it's medical benefits, but them spending like an hour on pharmaceutical transhumanism was just as fascinating.
I absolutely LOVED this interview! Such a healthy back-and-forth, where none of you agree with the other "just cause" and be friends, but challenge each other. Well done both of you, this was truly a delight! Thank you!
The mental aspect of anabolics is something that needs to be talked about more. Everyone wants to talk about acne, testicular atrophy, gyno, etc., but the most dangerous is what it can do to your brain. Kudos to Doctor Mike, also Doctor Mike.
Well, I'd be more scared of the heart problems than the mental health effects by a LOT. The heart problems kill you, and isn't reversible. The mental health problems are reversible (by hopping off cycle) and probably won't kill you.
@@realization8919 the heart problems for vast majority are not an acute problem, they take years most likely decades to come. however the mental side can come instantly and will be around for as long as you take them. in worst case scenario they will not go completely away since you essentially taught yourself to be anxious etc.
He way Doctor Mike challenges Dr. Mike's views is refreshing. Many times Dr. Mike is the smartest person in a podcast with little to no arguments to his opinions. The man can talk most people to the ground. I'm a big fan of his but this is a fantastic discussion. Well done. Now I'm a big fan of yours as well.
His is challenging him very very minimally. He clearly disagrees but puts out very little push back. Also there should have a sociology scientist there as well.
I agree with Muscle Mike…..my kid’s school lectures parents constantly about screen time. Then the school hands the kids a screen, does all schoolwork on this screen, sends them home with the screen, to do their homework on the screen. Its INSANE.
Hypocritical for sure. I also feel the same. Now we have moved to the city... My kids just need to have their phone. No social experience at all. I'm planning to go back to the province again. City life is too fast and so modern. Maybe that's good. But I want my children to enjoy life in real time.
@lydiathompson8618 that’s probably not how it works, the whole system likely cannot be changed to suit the needs of an individual, especially a system that does not recognise what is wrong with itself
@@thewannabe6293definitely! I grew up outside without a phone biking around the neighborhood meeting kids my age and I would even do landscaping with my step dad; on weekends we'd play baseball or run laps. (eventually I got a flip phone) I had such a fun adventurous childhood and I learned things by going out and doing it I'm 19 and I have so many skills already and I know how to take care of myself and entertain myself. I think kids these days don't even know how to stay entertained without their phone or ipad.
I love how Doctor Mike D.O. keeps going back to real-life experience and the reality of what people go through on a daily basis. I have been diagnosed with depression and anxiety. I have been on medication for both for over 25 years and am currently on a good regimen of medication for both depression and anxiety. However, while these medications help to some extent, nothing compares to the benefits that I get from a consistent exercise regimen. If I didn't exercise on a regular basis, I would definitely either be in bed crying all day or having terrible panic attacks despite being on medication. Nothing can replace the benefits of exercise for me both physically and mentally. I'm just one person, but this has been my personal experience! Thank you, Doctor Mike!!
Agreed, working out is amazing for mental health. My mom is currently going through some severe anxiety, it's tough, I'm trying to convince her to come work out with me as a mother/son bonding thing, she always seems genuinely excited at the idea, but then flakes out the day of as things get out of control in her mind. Watching this play out over and over again with other things too, I have a lot of respect for people who have managed to deal with severe anxiety. I feel pretty helpless as a bystander, but I hope she finds a solution for herself, too. Cheers, mate.
I'm sorry for what you and your mom are going through. If you haven't seen Doctor Mike D.O. on "The Diary of a CEO " podcast, I highly recommend it. He talks about his battle with depression following the death of his mother. How he couldn't get out of bed to do simple daily tasks like brushing his teeth. It is a wonderful podcast with a powerful message. It may help both you and your mom battle this ugly disease!!
I'd say his desire wrt to exercise is like cooking. It used to be something we had to do, but now we have takeout, premade meals, etc. that make it no longer a strict necessity. People that do because they enjoy or find it therapeutic still do it anyway.
in defense of bald dr mike my assumption is that from his utopian view point, eventually medicine would get to the point where your depression and anxiety would be completely cured by medicine. I love dr. mike, but I hope maybe when he isn't in meathead juicing mode he can have an easier time realizing the contradictions with his optimistic idea of the future. at least it isn't really harmful.
@@malxnt if you think about it most of the best/most fearsome super villains are extremely charismatic in the public eye...that's how they become billionaires, political leaders, national heroes...they flash a Colgate smile and an I want a better world for our children speech and the world gobbles it up while they work on their doomsday device in some secret lab in a warehouse district that apparently nobody questions a constant stream of semi trucks hauling in electronics bits and bobs, and heaps of nuclear waste.
@@desertsavagery Yeah but those types of people don't tend to follow academia or admit when they're wrong. People like Trump, Andrew Tate, even Elon Musk, are very adamant in their beliefs and amass a following because of it. We see him admit several times in the discussion he might be wrong and is willing to listen to Mike and be civil and rational. I moreso meant I think he's funny and amiable. Besides, much this conversation was purely theoretical and not meant to be taken as fact. Nothing wrong with two scientists sitting down and theorizing about the future.
Doctor Mike and Dr. Mike are both such great active listeners! they both give each other space and room to talk and you can tell they listen properly and respond and reflect back to each other. this was one of the best interviews
Dr. Mike is the idealist I used to be about advancements in medicine, and Doctor Mike is the pragmatist I currently am refusing to believe big pharma would ever invent anything that useful that's also affordable and without long term side effects.
I wonder how much Israetel actually thinks about the sociological/political aspects of the pharmacological advancements he's talking about or is he speaking from a strictly scientific point of view. In a bubble those pills and genetic engineering sound great but I agree in a human society there's no way the average person would ever be able to access them.
Yup. The profit motive for pharma is way too high. Looking at the history of companies like Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline, etc, it’s clear that they don’t mind gambling with people’s lives for the prospect of turning a profit. Creating a permanent fix for a problem isn’t nearly as profitable as treating the problem forever.
I remember seeing late 90s forum posts on how there would be a immediate fix for hairloss via an easy pharmaceutical invention & that it would be here in the next decade. Well, it's 2024 & Dr. Mike is bald 🤷♂️ @RasmusSvedin
@sagedangelo-sylvia1925 a consipiratorial minded person might even see him as some kind of paid advocate for somebody... the "let's just reduce our flght/fight response" Make the populace more docile and malleable while stimulating positivity chemically. It literally sounds like a fallout vault experiment... we happy few etcetc. This guy is so smart and doesn't see that connection? Could be that idealistic but it's just hard not to go down the alterier motivations path.
Despite his struggles and letting us know how he feels, he's such a respectful and soft dude. I love that he controls it, but I wish he didn't put himself through that.
He's a professional athlete, you could say it's an extreme sport. Professional athletes do a lot of things that might be very unhealthy long term, even if they are not enhanced. It's a choice he made to achieve his goals in life, just like other people make other choices to achieve their goals. The problem is when people do this stuff without being educated about the consequences.
As someone who works in the tech sector with AI, I can say pretty confidently that the view of AI expressed by guest Dr Mike is very rosy. It's decades farther out than he thinks if we manage it at all.
Yeah he really seems to just assume that all tech will be exponential without stop. Where it is exponential as people pump resources into it. but then it reaches a point where it becomes more logarithmic.
Yeah, the curve is exponetial, for sure, but it pans out. The AI boom now is actually the second boom, the first one wasnt just as big. But LLMs are cool and all, but they are based on humans and it makes stuff up with a 100% belivability. Its cool. But useful to that extent? Nope. No way near. What he speaks of is artifical general intelligence and we are FAR off from reaching that. Also. Humanoids for everyone in 2030s? Are we just gonna stop creating other stuff and suck every resource out of the world? His optimism sure is a breath of fresh air, but it feels a little delusional.
@@Tobsson I don't know that I'd go as far as delusional, mostly because he is obviously not deeply involved or knowledgeable about the actual state of the technology and how it works (and thus how it is likely to evolve over the next decade or two). There's so much hype about "AI" (really LLMs) but it feels to me like 3D TV mostly.
@@Zelmel not as a whole, he feels very well educated on most of what he talks about, but I'm a lot more pessimistic about alot of what he talks about. Therefor it feels a little out there to be talking about AI solving all of our problems. I wouldn't use "delusional" for everything that he talks about. Just specifically the AI part. As someone who use AI a lot in my work I know how bad AI can be, but still feel amazing with the response it gives.
These two gentlemen are so humble yet chose to hype each other up. It’s so wholesome. Like when you meet someone else with the same first name as you and unwittingly become pals after just through namesake. What a discussion. Bravo!
Dr. Mike Israetel made some really bold statements that shook me a little bit, but it triggered a great discussion and it wasn’t like he gave a definitive answer. You can tell Dr. Mike (with hair) is much more hesitant and skeptical than Dr. Mike (without hair) about modernity, and I think we need both types of people. Edit: Woah thanks for the feedback and thanks for liking my comment Dr. Mike (with hair🙃)
Could you two please please please have a monthly episode discussing latest health news together???!!!! Love your two perspectives and push backs together! You are both so so so smart, mature and eloquent. It would be a monthly gem!
I love that Dr. Mike is so willing to admit the kind of role that luck plays in viral internet popularity. Too many influencers try to attribute their success solely to “the grind” or “the right mindset” while thousands of other people do the same stuff as them but go completely unnoticed. Super humble dude and I think it shows just how grateful he is for his success.
Doctor Mike is such a great interviewer, and Dr. Mike is such a great guest. Questions are asked, answers are given, and then Doctor Mike will follow up and ask pointed questions about those answers. But Dr. Mike is ready for them and happy to discuss them. Just delightful to see both sides so interested in talking and reaching, if not agreement, then understanding.
Dr Buff Mike , don't put yourself down my guy. I clicked in this podcast because of you ! I love your videos on your channel and I'm sure Dr Mike is also a great creator but I clicked on this because of you !
It’s very refreshing seeing an educated discussion between two people with completely different perspectives while also being respectful to each other. Great podcast!
I'm not sure about the educated. The AI thing is full of misconceptions. He needs to watch a few videos of how it actually works (I'm a mathematician and programmer, so I am more familiar with the roots of the topic).
What an intelligent, respectful, conversation. It's so refreshing to see people be able to have a discussion, and at times disagree with each other, while remaining courteous and thoughtful to the other's perspective. If only this kind of discourse was more prominently displayed on the interwebs.
Dr. Mike succeded at his goal. He helped me tremendously to break tru plateaus in the gym. Hope i get a chance to meet him. Love to shake his hand and say thank you. He's awesome
Mike Isratel is such an eloquent speaker and knows just how to get to the crux of what he's trying to say. Excellent communicator, loved having him on the show.
I started exercising a couple years ago, as a way to cope with my dad dying and some other things instead of getting back on fentanyl. I've been watching channels like Dr. Isratel and Derek from MPMD since I got into it. It feels like I've learned so much from those channels. I just exercise at home, but I'm really happy with the progress I've made with my figure. I have over 5 1/2 years clean now. The last time I used was Dec. 17, 2018; I woke up on the bathroom floor with the needle still in my arm.
I love watching podcasts like this, not even between these two per say, just the attitude they have is perfect. One of them talks, the other listens and asks questions. Most podcasts I see, one person talks and the other nods along and goes "Woah thats so cool" but they're not doing that which I really appreiciate. It's nice to hear just two people having a conversation that has a clear way to go as opposed to one that has no direction. Thanks Dr and Doctor Mike
I mean world class, both of you. This should be a regular thing, the way you two go back and forth with real points while also being respectful is rare to see. Please do more.
This podcast was very eye opening to me, not only what was spoken about but also the fact that both of these people are truly the definition of intellectuals. The fact that they are listening to each other speak without simply agreeing, and questioning in a logical manner and not just to prove they’re more clever but to truly understand each other and make the other see what they may have missed, and the fact that the other also answers with logic not ego, it’s just amazing and quite rare to see in this day and age.
Love Dr Mike Isratel and this talk. Showcases his humility, dead-pan humor, depth of knowledge, depth of thought and eloquence. Thanks for bringing him in.
Dr Mike talking about having no positive feeling let's me now see how hard he has to try to act "surprised" by something and not in a bad way. But as someone who is neuro divergent it is very comforting to see that other people who have other reasons for having this happen
If you look into the past, young girls used to face higher rates of rape, incest, harassment, and trauma. Kids used to go through puberty (if they got there) in factory jobs, dangerous apprenticeships, or straight up slavery. Cabin fever and widespread cocaine and heroin addiction effected women who were stuck at home caring for piles of kids and taking care of homes and farms. My grandmother died of breast cancer at 34. My grandfather died in a construction job cave-in. People who think screen time is the worst problem humanity has ever had would be utterly devastated by the tragedy and pain experienced every day at any era before now.
I love the idea that Dr. Mike thinks people who go to the gym would challenge themselves in other ways if we had a muscle making pill, and people who wouldn't have done the work anyway can still benefit from said pill. I think it's also important to remember that some people simply enjoy that specific kind of grind. Even with a muscle maker pill, we'd still have gyms. 3D printing exists, but we still have woodsmiths, because they find that journey beautiful. An easy alternative doesn't ruin that.
As someone who goes to the gym on a regular basis, It's been a while since my body shape isn't the thing I train for anymore (it's a nice plus don't get me wrong). I just like non-competitive sports, I run too, I like to get better at something by putting efforts into it. I don't like competition the only opponent I want is myself and I don't like combat sports cause I don't want to risk hurting people. So yeah gym and running are my favorite physical activities, because of what they are not just because I wanna look good (it's part of it, but not everything)
I work as an AI scientist and I love Mike Israetel, and I've lived through over and under estimations of progress, but some of the things he said makes me wanna jump into the screen. I am not philosophically more qualified than him, other than in the fact that I think more about AI and am surrounded by people who think about AI. It's great how he clearly loves to learn and is excited about multiple fields of science, but we are fundamentally limited by computability (in the theoretical sense, not the magnitude), and this is something we have no metric on how long it will take to escape.
Yeah. Most of his future-thinking talk was pure science fiction parroted (and actually directly quoted SamA) from people who stand to benefit from all of it in absurd and profound ways. He talks like his vision of 2030 is a foregone conclusion when a lot of things he talks about might not even be possible over any timeframe.
just saying that these are a blessing. having the FREE option to listen to well establish professionals is something I hope people see is truly priceless.
Doctor Mike earned a subscriber here. When it the conversation turned to the harms of social media he did awesome. I really like the way that he pushed back with evidence and also anecdotes from what he as a physician sees day to day. He did not let Dr Mike Israetel’s claim go unchallenged. 👏 bravo!
It was an interesting exchange. I think Israetel was essentially correct, the more 'modern' the world is, the better it objectively becomes, and subjective harms like the rise in anxiety really are primarily a mismatch between our genetic psychological makeup and a safer, easier world than it was meant to survive in. The rational conclusion from that is either that we eventually stop making the world better, or start changing our genetically programmed responses, which is the same conclusion Israetel put forward. The world needs both pragmatists to keep what we have afloat, and dreamers to push us forward...I think those are the two perspectives we see playing out here between Doctor Mike and Dr. Mike. Perhaps you're also a pragmatist, and perhaps I'm also a dreamer🙂
@@SeuOuwhile I think that was true for essentially all of human history, and in less developed countries it still is, in the developed world it absolutely getting worse. For instance, I live in Canada and the cost of living is insane. My parents work at the same place I do, and by the time they were my age they owned a house and I will never be able to buy a house, if things don’t change.
I'm half an hour in and this guy is fkn outstanding, you can just tell he's *so* mentally sharp and he's able to articulate his points so well it's inspiring.
@@billysgeowhat is cringe about AI? Maybe I'm not there in the video yet and he is glazing current gen AI but eventually it will absolutely make information and talent learning wildly more accessible.
Conversations like these is why Internet should exist. Amazing point of view. I’m genuinely amazed at the honest and open conversation that they both had, I get both the POV and agree with both of them. Looking over the “real-world” problems like dr.Mike is a very “child like” perspective that I needed. And the “hesitant” mindset like doctor Mike is what I already have. Dr. Mike’s perception of things really opened my brain. Amazing conversation. Loved it!!!
His success is due to his intelligence, humour and eloquence. I don't care about workout whatsoever, I watch every one of his videos because I'm still a science nerd and he has insane charisma
I've been watching Doctor Mike for years, but I just discovered doctor Mike a month ago or so and have been loving his content. Nice to see my two favorite doctors named Mike have an entertaining and educational chat.
The exact opposite for me. Dr. Mike was niche even a couple of years back but it was obvious his content was more intelligent than most bodybuilding-related stuff at the time. They are so different, yet great in their own ways.
I absolutely love Mike Israetel and was disheartened when he talked about having anxiety issues because of steroid use. As someone who had debilitating GAD (which is now under control) I cannot imagine what sort of illogical fears he lives with. He also mentioned that steroid use is linked with lower intelligence and I really hope it doesn't impact him. I want Mike to live a full, wonderful life.
Well he theoretically knows what is up so he makes his own decisions with "full" awareness. But the scary thing would be if he failed himself and went gonzo.
Man what a thoughtful and articulate guy Dr. Mike Israetel is. I have watched his channel before but the more serious side of him in this long form interview format is great.
If you like this side of him, he has a secondary channel, Mike Israetal: Making Progress where he discusses various issues and his point of view on them, very intellectual
Well, he said that progress can be exponential, and it's been in the past. For you, now, it might seem that 15 years is optimistic, until you or a colleague of yours makes a breakthrough discovery that moves the field years or even decades forward. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens more often than people think.
Dr. Mike is the epitome of "if you say something confidently, everyone will believe you." No disrespect to Dr. Mike, a lot of what he says is well thought out and researched, but he also makes outlandishly bold and false statements as if they were facts. It is refreshing to see someone with his point of view and elegance of speaking. But damn you rly gotta listen close to a few of the things he says so you don't just get swept up in agreeing with him. He's perfectly juxtaposed with Doctor Mike's own beliefs, creating a good checks and balances system so you don't just get swept up in whatever each of them is saying.
personally I don't have a Crystal ball but his intelligence and optimism multiply eachother leading to some overconfident beliefs in positive outcomes for the human race that work within the vacuum of his philosophical reasoning but seem ridiculous when you remember reality by just stopping and thinking for a second. Like, robot butlers for homeless people 10 years from now is a pretty obvious example. But also the lack of scepticism in how surrendering tasks to a vastly superior intelligence could be bad for us through our inability to first of all be able to check whether this intelligence truly has our best interests at heart ( because we are not smart enough and because we surrendered out checks and balances to it specifically) but also because better according to humans might not necessarily be better according to machines causing a gradual loss of humanity, and where that will lead is anyone's guess.. good or bad is no longer a statement you can make here. Furthermore I was talking under the assumption the machine is attempting to improve us which might be bad for us , there is always the possibility this inconceivable vast intelligence does not want to improve us one day but do rather the opposite , and having surrendered our entire infrastructure to it we would have no way of either knowing or resisting. Also separately I might be wrong but isn't a regulated free market economy an oxymoron. Or is it just an example of idealism where theory is just completely divorced from reality on the basis of moral principle. Ps I do really admire and enjoy Dr. Isreatel and am in no way trying to diminish his opinions or intelligence. I was just debating.
@@Orsteep Pretty sure they mean his opinions on AI and technology in the future. Which aren't statements or facts, but a lot of people in this comment section don't seem to understand the difference.
I agree with the point on bullying. I was bullied alot in grade school and high school, but I grew up to know that bullying was something I didn't like, so I didn't bully people and I teach my neices not to be a bully.
Yes but at the same time i dont think he really understands the rest of how social media impacts the brain. Like he says the exposure to negative outcomes will "toughen them up" but in many cases all it does is just crush and break people. Like think about how many people are messed up adults who need therapy. And thats before social media got as bad as it is now. I do think some adversity can make people grow stronger, but the kind of adversity we see now is like the kind of adversity kids who get a6used by thier parents face. Most people dont just "harden up" from being torn down like that. And its not just from bullying, the upward comparisons can take self criticism to levels of neuroticism and diagnosable illness.
The odds of two Russian Dr./Doctor Mikes existing, being known RUclipsrs and being in the same room is so improbable on a cosmic scale, my brain can't handle it.
Dr. Mike is very optimistic, and I do see where he's coming from societally and geneologically when he's compartmentalizing things like anxiety issues/depression/social media addiction on a macro-scale. The issue comes down to practicality for the individual, as someone who has struggled with mental illness and is just now getting the help I should have been pursuing for years those issues seem much larger to me, and to millions of others in similar conditions. I enjoy the tempering edge that Doctor Mike brought to the philosophical discussion, two sides of a coin and all that. Good watch.
The part of the “AI will fix the world” viewpoint that I really push back on is stratification. There is nothing that people with money and power, in general HATE more than poor and powerless people getting money and power. As AI and genomics and robotics improve exponentially (which I also think he’s misusing nominally), the rich and powerful will get more rich and powerful, and the poor and powerless will stay that way.
While i agree to an extent, there is a critical mass of inequality that people are not willing to accept. And when that point is reached, the poor do exercise their unquestionable power. Its happened hundreds of times throughout history. The top of the pyramid is eventually always held responsible by the bricks holding it up.
I mean look at how much better we love compared to someone in the industrial revolution things get better and some tech just gets out cars the Internet etc doesn't stay a thing of the rich forever
The difference now is the rich have apocalypse bunkers, nukes, and a millitary force. They know about the topling of greedy kings in the past and this time if it happens, they are willing to destroy all life on earth if the poora rebel, or easier yet, send the poors waring with eachother.
such has been the way for technological advancements through the course of history. Well said. I think there will be more equal distribution than say, plate armour for knights vs peasants in medieval europe, but definitely i expect there will be class divides still.
The world is still made of people so I'd say the worst case scenario of just the rich getting richer is not very likely. With AI it's kind of a coin flip whether it's going to be locked up inside the closed doors of some company and monopolized or if open source will prevail. Currently Zuck is driving for open source but if they came up with something AGI level first I'm not so sure they would share it. But I see it's pretty likely that we are going to continue the trend where even a single person can do increasing amounts. Like now with 3D printing you can manufacture stuff in your bedroom and have AI for an all knowing assistant so in the future some mad scientist types can do advanced medical research etc. all on their own making it more unlikely that a single company can somehow monopolize all knowledge and talent and dominate
Great to see two guys have an intelligent conversation regarding a swathe of different issues and solutions. Found doctor Mike through dr Mike. Gotta love em both. All the best from Scotland guys. 🏴
Wow, I love this! Big Mike's honest reflections and forward-thinking takes, Beewoop Mike knowing how to let their guest loose on a topic, the utterly casual yet respectable abidance of differing opinions. What a pair. These two could be their own show, I feel so good after listening to this.
I think it's more like he see's it as ultimately irrelevant. He argues that the world is safer today than it was 100 years ago...perhaps especially so for the rich, but even for the destitute. Do you see what I mean? In his view, things will continue to get better, both for the rich and the poor, the socially advantaged and the disadvantaged. Even if the wealthy and advantaged benefit the most from this, it doesn't alter the point being made. So I think he does take the things you mentioned into account...at the very least, I very much worry about the things you mentioned, yet I still agree with Dr. Mike.
@@SeuOu But for the middle and lower class things havent been improving, quite opposite. Owning a home has become more difficult then ever in human history. 100 years ago I could get piece of land and just build myself a house. Now, in the west, you need obscene amounts of money to get basic house.
@@SeuOuall signs in the environment, geopolitics, economy, domestic politics say otherwise. We are on the downside of the bell curve now unless some super miracle happens
the problem for 90% of the population centuries ago was not starving for bad harvests or for getting a common cold. His point is that nowadays we have problems that in a future might be just history, thanks to the advance of technology.
@@SeuOucorrect. The amount of gun deaths nowadays is highly publicized in America, but even compared to the 70s-90s the actual number TOTAL has plummeted. We’re around 40k per year in America now with many being suicides. Back before security cameras and the modern security measures we have we had numbers in the hundreds of thousands. Nothing really has changed all that much with firearm ownership but nowadays there’s tons more deterrents. Overall living conditions are better, even if inflation is HORRIBLE. There are less people starving and less people homeless than past decades. The quality of life in America is leagues better than it was 100 years ago. Even for the poorest of the poor.
Damn, I just saw a short of this interview, and Dr. Buff Mike's voice is just incredible and his way of speaking so engaging it drew me to come watch the whole podcast.
This is one of the best just most genuine discussions I've had the pleasure of seeing, pure curiosity and the need to understand better, I love this. If we could drop the ego and do this, things would be so much better for us humans.
Doctor Mike is an excellent interviewer. I have a ton of thoughts and opinions on this interview, but I'll just say Doctor Mike did a fantastic job at interviewing.
Found out about Dr. Mike *Israetel a week ago Tried to find a vid of the two Dr. Mike's reacting to each other but couldn't find any. This podcast is a gift
Now we need Mike Syria, Mike Jordan, Mike Iraq, Mike Iran, Mike Kuwait, Mike Oman, Mike Yemen, Mike Afghanistan, Mike Lebanon, Mike Egypt, Mike Qatar, Mike Bahrain, Mike Saudi Arabia, Mike Turkey and Mike Somewhere Else In The Middle East I Might Have Forgot (I'm avoiding 🇵🇸) On purpose
Personal Trainer here, I don't try to work my clients as hard as possible to prove how good my work is - it's about the nuance of getting to personal goals, and those pathways are very individual. It annoys me to see trainers making exercise horrible for people and wondering why they can't stick with it.
Thats why I could never be a PT, I love understanding the body and knowing how to train well for my goals where as most people just want results in a way that they can stick to it they dont care about learning everything
Those trainers are like me and need to focus on the more extreme side of fitness where you have people training properly progressively overloading dieting decently etc but with that they need to make sure their knowledge is also at a high point because these people have already taken steps to learn as much ad they can they just want extra help
Yep. If it was actually possible for everyone on the planet to sustain an optimal diet and training regime then everyone would be an athlete already. imo the key to making fitness sustainable long term, which is where you need to be if you want to see gains, is to leave something in the tank most sessions. You always know when you're pushing too hard. Getting anxiety when you're about to do a brutal set of squats close to failure is normal, but when you start feeling like that about the entire session it's time to dial it down a notch. Most people are not capable of sustaining that level of effort for any meaningful length of time (i.e. 3+ years). And ideally you want to be able to sustain whatever you're doing for the rest of your life.
Kirsten, I really like your training approach. When I first started going to the gym regularly, I was nervous and a bit shy, so I hired a PT to show me how to use the machines correctly etc...he only had one setting, low reps and every set to absolute muscle failure. I picked up a new injury every week until I finally cut ties. Now I train 10 hours a week, long warmup sets, higher rep range, stop at technical failure, and have zero injuries and good gains. I just wish he had been like you, looked at my scrawny middle aged beginner physique, and made a training plan I could actually do without dying, lol.
@@Johnpdf For sure, and that is part of being an effective personal trainer, we make the plan that gets people to their goal and teaches them what they want to know. I have worked with clients who want to learn about their bodies biomechanics, and how to push themselves - great fun for everyone involved - and I have worked with people who really just want to move their bodies and not get injured. I believe there is space for everyone's version of working out, and for sure appreciate the people who want to learn.
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9mbDXvDNqTU/mqdefault.jpg)
Doctor Mike watching Doctor Mike interview Dr Mike has been a pleasure.
Thx Dr. Mike
😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
AGHHHH My head just exploded. Not Slavic, though, I presume?
hello doctor mike !
If this is him with a brainfog, I can't imagine how witty this man would be with a clear mind.
Agreed. The other Dr Mike has a lot of videos going back years. Dude is quite smart.
He's like the Oppenheimer of sports science but dropping bombs of evidence based information
I mean you can literally see his thoughts 🧄🧠
Idiots can be witty. If he is talking bodybuilding it's fact based, but from this, but I noticed alot of the other topics on this show, all his thoughts come from his own ideas without any facts behind his thoughts.
Once he pointed it out, I realized Dr. Mike sounded different compared to his usual interviews. Of course, his Renaissance fitness videos are likely scripted which helps but his ADHD was in full force during this conversation. In his other videos he’s still funny but more concise in his explanations
Dr. Mike Israetal “feeling stupid” and yet being more articulate and insightful than a lot of intelligent people I know is pretty impressive.
He said a lot of stuff that sounded like it makes sense because he talks good but logically it doesn’t add up
I would like to think that these discussions are outlined a bit before they start filming, but Dr. Mike definitely speaks off the cuff on subjects where harder data is really required in order to be an equal participant in the conversation.
Doctor Mike does a great job of referencing data in order to challenge his guests and to hold them to account for their positions.
Honestly, very enjoyable watch.
I understand that though. You can be “smart”, like you can rationalize things and make sense, and have all that built up knowledge from years of effort, but also realize your actual brain processors aren’t working as well as they used to.
And THAT is frustrating.
@@nothanks9503 Such as?
He is just being fake humble, it's pretty gross
It's so rare seeing something like this where the world views are so different but equally supported and the differences are intelligently discussed
They aren’t equally supported, though. One is grounded in practical, evidence-based science and the other is speculating about science fiction concepts.
My wife has loved Dr. Mike for years and I have loved Dr. Mike for years too. I never expected to see you two together. I’ll let you figure out who loves which one.
Depends on who did the glute spread first
Underrated comment
@@shakir4969
Take my upvote
Are you sure you're not talking about Doctor Mike? It is almost infinetly more likely for a woman like your wife to be a fan of Doctor Mike, than Dr. Mike.
Doctor Mike - biggest medical youtuber in the world, boxer, looks like a male model. Very much a typical healthcare physician and talks infinetly more about his "patients" that our bro science buddy.
Dr. Mike Israetel - body builder, less into general healthcare and more into things that get you jacked and other fringe subjects. Has no "patients". Drugs like Trenbolone also have a negative effect on his "patience" as he would not give or prescribe it to anyone, it has no effect on his "patients". In fact, legally i do not believe he is allowed to have "patients" unless he has a very odd relationship with a lab rat.
@@travelreview5962 Sure, buddy, sure...
Israetel might be yolked out of his gourd but the most impressive thing about him is just how adept at talking he is. He was born to be a speaker. He can deliver these long monologues off the cuff that most people would struggle with reading off a teleprompter. Just a master class in the art of public speaking.
It's definitely impressive. However, just as with his physique, I'm certain it came with years of practice. Obviously he's a smart guy, but even if you look back to his early social media speaking a few years ago there's a huge difference.
Even more impressive considering what he had disclosed at the end about the side effects of steroid use.
Honestly, he seems like a genuinely great and intelligent guy but I found out that he was quite repetative and went off on a tangent quite a few times.I felt like skipping ahead.
That’s a very more plates more dates description
@@Reiza-jj5lf 100%
The absolute gritty honesty out of israetel is worth a view in itself
He’s hilarious too!
Yessss
Bro fr. Hes like a botihsativvah
I read that as girthy honesty at first
@@alecrechtiene558his reviewing celebrity workouts slay me
It is really nice to see Doctor Mike challenge Dr. Mike on some of his commendable, but sometimes assumption filled, optimism about acclimating and the way society advances. He assumes a linear progession and advancement for everyone, when the reality is that different people are affected very differently, and sometimes quite negatively, by certain things that are progessing in the world. Dr. Mike has been significantly benefitted, and deservedly so, by much of this and has a hard time seeing his bias. Ultimately, Dr. Mike is an incredible guy and deserves all the success he has achieved, but no one is perfect.
Spot on
honestly this. Dr. Mike is overtly optimistic about all this cause whilst yes, we might have the capability to fix all these problems through pharmaceuticals, our world is ran on monetary incentives whether we like it or not. Is there truly an incentive to fix all these issues, which will likely lower prices and certain demand? Or is it more likely that the problems we have today get stretched out as far as it can because they make the most amount of money.
And with AI, well it needs more data to train on than is humanly available. OpenAI is already close to bankrupcy because of the money spent on data centres. This idea that "oh AI will be the greatest thing ever" still has to contest with the fact that our mind, which AI basically tries to emulate, is so utterly complex that it's almost financially impossible to realistically keep something like that up, let alone train on it.
*Reads the dictionary once*
Yeah I think many people (especially with lower income) are still living in a world with some of our ancestral terrors. Getting enough food to survive, staying clear of "monsters" (violent partners) who seek to harm, scraping together money for life-saving medical care... Hopefully it quality of life can improve for *all*.
Kudos to Dr. Mike for not swearing in two whole hours.
But Dr Mike never swears in his videos
@@vikingthedude 😅😅😅
he is more into sexual analogies
On gear!!!
42:23
Zero bs. No frills. I’ve used gear. He’s 100% correct. Probably the most brutal honest review of gear usage I’ve ever heard
Thanks for your honesty. Doesn’t sound worth it at all. Sounds like only people with body dysmorphia would be willing to experience those side effects just for larger muscles and lower body fat. Like bulimics who are willing to destroy their bodies and tooth enamel (because of stomach acid) just to be smaller than most people can achieve with discipline and consistency alone. Only a person who is deeply mentally unwell would do that to themselves.
@@JellieJoShmo if athletics, physical performance in some way or just creating the most muscular body you can is the most important thing in your life that brings you satisfaction, then it makes complete sense to push into that direction as far as you can.
unwell? if you absolutely love running and thats what you want to do for a living and for your free time, wouldnt it be insane to essentially not enjoy your life just because someone on the internet thinks their values are worth more?
oh you spent 40 years of your life doing research, experiments or inventions to better the world? sucks to suck, i think thats worthless and you should have done what i did. see how this logic can be applied to anyone that specializes in a field and puts most of their effort into that.
It is absolutely spot on. I just came off of a tren cycle, and I cannot tell you how accurate the description is. Having to remind yourself that you like things, because they feel like a memory is hauntingly accurate.
One thing is to use a little bit of test and adding other stuff to that stack.
@@JellieJoShmo unfortunately if you want to excel at certain sports, it’s eventually going to be one of those things that you start dabbling into. I highly recommend that you avoid it unless absolutely necessary though. It can dramatically shrink your lifespan, particularly if you use it heavily.
I love how many topics they were able to disagree on, present evidence and make arguments for, and stay cordial and keep asking eachother questions. Wow is this uncommon. I was swayed by both people and came out feeling informed to form my own opinion instead of just being lead along. Love this!
I appreciated this as well 💚🙏💚
Yeah but Israetel's points were so bad
@@i-am-the-slimeCould you develop that opinion? Or is it just bad because you say so?
This happens in normal life most of the time. The internet loves showing extremes usually.
@@TheOddSnake Why should an artificial intelligence thats 1000x smarter than us, care about us?
Humans are wired to have empathy & still most geniuses dont care about things that doesnt impact themselves.
Especially with humanoid robots, that can do everything for the "godlike a.i." that he describes.
As someone that works in computer science he seems deluded. First he doesnt understand how the current & near future artificial "intelligence" works & second, even if it would work like he proposes, it wouldnt make much sense for that intelligence to care about such a flawed species like humans.
Even if you put a safety code, if the artificial intelligence is much smarter & able to evolve like HE dreams about, it would just overwrite it.
He has a really oversimplified view on things that he clearly doesnt understand, respectfully.
This entire podcast feels so healthy to listen to, I love how the ball goes from one court to the other, no yelling, no insulting, just points of view
I was immediately intimidated by Dr Mike’s comments on how he feels rage and such. But somehow the way he speaks is actually quite calm and soothing. He has a nice smile too. Definitely the coolest Dr Mikes on the planet.
Yeah, I get the personal goals he needs steroids for, but those psychological sides just seem awful to me. He's mentioned a few times that he plans to stop all PEDs in 2-3 years, hope he makes it there okay, he seems like a genuinely great guy.
@@SeuOu The guy must be really really sick when he openly speaks what the hell steroid use is and still uses them kind of joking how stupid he is since he wants to be jacked but psychologically and also somewhat chemically that gear dependency doesnt differ from alcohol or narcotic drugs (opioids etc) use. The dependency system is the same.
He is addicted and yes he knows that but he doesnt speak so tha Im an addict and right place for me to go is AA, but Im just not ready yet.
You get the same feeling from people who do contacts sports. There is something in having close to violence that centers them.
He takes the rage out in the gym and whoever his partner is when he is practicing Brazilian jiu jitsu
@roronoauchiha69 for like a full ten seconds I thought you meant romantic partner.
How refreshing. Two people with really opposing views on many things having a civil, polite and also intelligent discussion. Many thanks to you both.
Wish we had more of it.
@@dailymeditateandchill3262 Absolutely.
It helps that one party isnt jackwagon crazy
@@siege2928right I love Dr Mike for his exercise/fitness advice but listening him here there were so many points where he just sounded insane 😅😂
@@princeofparanoia9374 like what?
Dr. Mike has a disturbingly positive outlook on the future of humanity.
With no ounce of class consciousness
It's actually refreshing
I would say "delusional"
yeah it's scary😭
@@aaronfelcity1403I would argue that his class consciousness shows in his comments about New York real estate. He believes that homelessness and even hunger in developed countries are artificially created as a product of politics and greedy business practice. He specifically says “in a proper free market economy” implying that is what we don’t have
Also huge props to watch an actual honest to goodness conflicting ideals “discussion” that isn’t two grown man talking over each other or yelling. I love love that a lot. Two true gents.
Whenever Dr. Mike talks about the steroid-induced anxiety he feels it makes me so sad. He seems like such a good person and has done amazing stuff for the fitness world, and I'm excited for him to "retire", go natural, and enjoy things again. This is a great chat to listen to, lots of love to Dr. Mike and Doctor Mike!
He really doesn't need to go natural. He could be on a decent dose of trt and still maintain 80-90% of his mass. What Mike will struggle with is. People know him as a mass monster. Especially because he's very short. His height will have impacted his confidence. We know we can't grow up after a certain age but we can grow everything else. It's an insecurity issue. He will end up with serious health issues and. Then decide to stop.
He’ll be on hormones until he dies. HE WILL NEVER BE NATURAL. Dude has fucked himself up for like. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s gone before 50
@@LL-hs4jo Exactly, there are certain steroids he's probably on like tren and/or npp/deca that are known to cause anxiety even at small doses let alone the high doses he's probably on due to being on contest prep.
Yeah we will still love him in smaller size. 🙂
I can't imagine going through this all the time without going crazy... Like guy going on a rampage type of crazy.
I saw this somewhere else and I don’t remember who said it but I agree with them: “I want machines and AI to do my monotonous, repetitive tasks like washing my dishes so I can go do my creative and intellectual work like writing books and painting.” I feel like we’re seeing the reverse so far.
Stavros halkias has a hilarious bit about this
That’s what they’ll end up doing once actually applied, the professional art jobs will decline since the company just needs you to create their vision, but we will always value the depth of humanity and the beauty of our creativity
It’s easier because it’s software. Which readily available and cheaper. Once we get very good cheap robots then all the repetitive tasks will start being replaced.
@@TheKBC14 Its not cheaper though, there's a huge energy cost to all the processing power of both developing this generative AI and using them.
@@NotEvenOverThere I'll add that this is due to the economics surrounding the film, tv, music, art industry than anything about what AI can do. WarnerBros, or Disney, or insert entertainment mega-corp of your choice don't exist to create artistic expressions, they exist to make money, the artistic expression are a side effect of that goal. AI lets them make more money albeit at the cost of artistic expression. AI isn't even the only thing to do this. Think about the conditions of VFX artists, I'll be the first of anyone to say that CGI hate is forced and that computer effects are just as valid a tool of filmmaking as modelmaking, set design, costume design, makeup, fight choreography, etc. But the reason VFX have become so prevalent is because they can do things for much cheaper than they otherwise would, they can do spectacular set pieces, Avengers, Top Gun, insert action movie. It would be preposterous in 1986 to do the things they do in Maverick with real planes, miniatures, green screens, motion control rigs, matte paintings, etc. You'd spend a billion dollars doing that in '86 dollars, and they can do the same thing nowadays, because upping the ante with a big setpiece is economically feasible for these companies now, all because they can treat VFX artists, modellers, rotoscopers, riggers, animators, etc like absolute dirt. Sure there's a spectrum at work here bewteen artistic vision and soulless corporate profit. But the profit motive is definitely a factor, and very often hampers the art.
I’m not even particularly interested in this field, but watching both of you clash on some contradicting ideas of each others, all whilst being absolutely respectful and professional was just refreshing. Also I’ve never seen a guy that looked like such a meathead be so educated and articulate, this was also refreshing.😂
You would be mindblown studying Paul Chek’s work look him up 💚🙏💚 just met the man when he was 63ish lifting more weights than anyone I know… and healthy and sharper than anyone! Truly amazing that we can be learning from
People like this!
Check out jocko willink - he’s so similar but instead was a navy seal commander hahah
You worded it exactly as I was gonna say 😂
Not all of us meatheads eat crayons you know 😂
@@fishnutz5196only the smart ones
I like how these two do have differing opinions on certain things but they can disagree in a very professional, coherent, respectful manner
Watching this is really making me appreciate the psychological difference in someone with a medical degree, and someone with a PhD that does research. The MD guy interacts with sick people all day and addresses their health problems, turning him more pessimistic, and the research guy is aware of every new advancement coming out soon, and is optimistic of the effect of these advancements.
Perfect, nutshell summary of these two, largely, very great minds before us. From the both of you. Love it, thanks!!
@@saram3156 Well, he said that progress can be exponential, and it has been in the past.
For you, now, it might seem that 15 years is optimistic, until they (geneticists) or a colleague of theirs makes a breakthrough discovery that moves the field years or even decades forward. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens more often than people think.
@@saram3156 He still presents a lot of logical and reasonable viewpoints, however. I mean just look back on our history up until now. Just a handful of incredibly immense breakthroughs have literally changed the entire face of the world and society we now enjoy and take hella for granted today. Only a matter of time before another exponential increase in innovation happens, just a matter of when really.
this is such a good point omg
This is a good point. Gene research has been advancing rapidly since the late 90s and early 2000s (Metal Gear Solid was nearly all about it for example). Dr. Mike being optimistic about drugs, gene therapy and AI is because he (as mainly a researcher) sees the potential applications in a way isolated from most “morality” or “politics”, though he does kinda tack on at the end of that bit that most governments probably won’t regulate things correctly to get the best outcomes for all.
It’s like when people in the 20th century said the invention of machines would allow everyone to work 3-4 day weeks and have more time for leisure and spending money to make the economy work. Instead we’re all sleep-deprived pauper slaves to uncles Jeff, Elon and Zuck. Hustling and grinding 24/7. 🙄
This is where Doctor Mike’s pessimistic view from being in the real world comes from.
Also Dr. Mike revealing he was pumped to the gills on freak PEDs made me a bit more forgiving of his tangents and slightly odd views. I don’t agree with a lot of them, but I don’t think he’s a bad guy, and he’s never claimed to be an expert in those particular fields anyway.
i love how they can both disagree with each other but in a mature manner that facilitates further conversation and thought about the topics. this was super interesting to watch
That's how people interact when they respect eachother, and are not online s huge amount of time. Compare that to *some* people kn reddit who will argue with you even if you make the same point!
Couldn't agree with this statement anymore. Very refreshing to see
What? You don't like when two people just start shouting and insulting each other for no reason? Where I'm from the debate doesn't start until punches are thrown 🤣
@@TheActualSage profile checks not out...i guess😂
@@ruzhyophoenix4370reddit is anonymous. Real life isn't. That's the diff
that vein is giving him immense bloodflow to the brain fr
That’s a varicose vein, it is a very damaged blood vessel.
I was thinking he could easily inject 💉 dope in that vein .. i cant find a single vein in both my arms so that's why i was thinking like this 😅
May lord give me strength to quit 🙏🏼
@@BhattiJatt you gotta give yourself that strength, keep trying, try talking to someone about helping you quit, get your mind off it, because if you want to quit, you can, it will take a while, but I believe in you
@@BhattiJatt get on methadone brother. saved me from certain death with fentanyl. ill have tapered down and be completely off the methadone too within a few months
@@BhattiJattfind treatment in your area. Subutex or methadone
I honestly wish doctor mike spoke more, because he gave amazing counter points and I just know he has much more to say. I know he's kinda just conducting the interview, but I think we could've gained more from a bit more of his insight
Agree!
Yep, it felt like Dr. Israetel was more talking about a utopian future, but only from the perspective he sees it. Data shows down, but he argues its just some form of anomaly.
I appreciate how Doctor Mike keeps bringing all of this back to real people right now and their real life experiences and challenges. The fact is we are sadder, lonelier, don't have access to medication, are baraged with charlatans, need purpose and challenges , are creative beings who don't want to be replaced by AI etc etc.
Agreed. I came here for Mike Isratel but I’m astonished at how wrong he is on all of that stuff. “One day they’ll realize that miserable childhood was the best thing that ever happened to them” 🥴
@@patstephens5444 To be fair, he said he would like to think AI will take care of all the work so we can dedicate our time to enjoying life, which is how I think it should be, we need more free time to be creative and do what we love.
Now, by saying this he is stepping out of his area of expertise and also he is speaking from a clearly privileged spot. But to his credit, he is not claiming to have the absolute truth and is willing to listen to different opinions and change his mind, which I appreciate.
@@patstephens5444I agree with you. I really enjoy Dr. Mike's content and have learned a great deal from him about hypertrophy but he has strong biased and sometimes seems unaware of the limits of his own knowledge & experience.
Yeah Dr Mike (Bald) is shockingly closed minded philosophically. I'm a huge fan of him from an exercise science standpoint but when it comes to deeper meaning, he's all intelligence and no wisdom.
@@laceyo1993
Kinda odd take to call someone "closed minded philosophically" when philosophy is one of those things we haven't solved yet, there is no "right way to think"
He just has a different outlook on things.
I love how Doctor Mike Listened carefully to Dr. Mike with no or little interruption. That’s literally a good example of a great listener 🎉
Yeah I'm always impressed by that because I myself am NOT a very good attentive listener and I'm so bad for getting super excited and interrupting 🤣
It helped that Big Dr. Mike is a great speaker
I expected this to be about exercise and it's medical benefits, but them spending like an hour on pharmaceutical transhumanism was just as fascinating.
All he does is talk about exercise on his own channel he’s not gonna do the same thing on a podcast
Yeah it got deeply philosophical and I love it
I absolutely LOVED this interview! Such a healthy back-and-forth, where none of you agree with the other "just cause" and be friends, but challenge each other. Well done both of you, this was truly a delight! Thank you!
The mental aspect of anabolics is something that needs to be talked about more. Everyone wants to talk about acne, testicular atrophy, gyno, etc., but the most dangerous is what it can do to your brain. Kudos to Doctor Mike, also Doctor Mike.
Well, I'd be more scared of the heart problems than the mental health effects by a LOT. The heart problems kill you, and isn't reversible. The mental health problems are reversible (by hopping off cycle) and probably won't kill you.
... Unless you harm someone else, or otherwise land yourself in legal trouble, because the inside thoughts came out at the wrong time.
@@realization8919 the heart problems for vast majority are not an acute problem, they take years most likely decades to come. however the mental side can come instantly and will be around for as long as you take them. in worst case scenario they will not go completely away since you essentially taught yourself to be anxious etc.
Testicular atrophy and gyno probably could be mitigated with keeping your shbg low.
@@dsabo i have those symptoms without steroids lmao... 🤣🤣🤣 the psychological ones
He way Doctor Mike challenges Dr. Mike's views is refreshing. Many times Dr. Mike is the smartest person in a podcast with little to no arguments to his opinions. The man can talk most people to the ground. I'm a big fan of his but this is a fantastic discussion.
Well done. Now I'm a big fan of yours as well.
His is challenging him very very minimally. He clearly disagrees but puts out very little push back. Also there should have a sociology scientist there as well.
I find it crazy that Dr. Mike is ever the smartest guy on a podcast
Why?@@DamianSAAAN
@@DamianSAAAN So you disagree with him on something so he must be unintelligent right?
@@billysgeo Minimally yes, but still. Doing it more could have made the discussion more of a debate. He's trying to understand his point.
I agree with Muscle Mike…..my kid’s school lectures parents constantly about screen time. Then the school hands the kids a screen, does all schoolwork on this screen, sends them home with the screen, to do their homework on the screen. Its INSANE.
I am a teacher and we don't do this. If you don't like it, say something.
Hypocritical for sure. I also feel the same. Now we have moved to the city... My kids just need to have their phone. No social experience at all. I'm planning to go back to the province again. City life is too fast and so modern. Maybe that's good. But I want my children to enjoy life in real time.
@lydiathompson8618 that’s probably not how it works, the whole system likely cannot be changed to suit the needs of an individual, especially a system that does not recognise what is wrong with itself
@@lydiathompson8618yeah let’s just tell them to not use screens and it’ll all go away
@@thewannabe6293definitely! I grew up outside without a phone biking around the neighborhood meeting kids my age and I would even do landscaping with my step dad; on weekends we'd play baseball or run laps. (eventually I got a flip phone) I had such a fun adventurous childhood and I learned things by going out and doing it I'm 19 and I have so many skills already and I know how to take care of myself and entertain myself. I think kids these days don't even know how to stay entertained without their phone or ipad.
To both Mikes, it's nice to hear a discussion where both are open.
I love how Doctor Mike D.O. keeps going back to real-life experience and the reality of what people go through on a daily basis. I have been diagnosed with depression and anxiety. I have been on medication for both for over 25 years and am currently on a good regimen of medication for both depression and anxiety. However, while these medications help to some extent, nothing compares to the benefits that I get from a consistent exercise regimen. If I didn't exercise on a regular basis, I would definitely either be in bed crying all day or having terrible panic attacks despite being on medication. Nothing can replace the benefits of exercise for me both physically and mentally. I'm just one person, but this has been my personal experience! Thank you, Doctor Mike!!
Agreed, working out is amazing for mental health. My mom is currently going through some severe anxiety, it's tough, I'm trying to convince her to come work out with me as a mother/son bonding thing, she always seems genuinely excited at the idea, but then flakes out the day of as things get out of control in her mind. Watching this play out over and over again with other things too, I have a lot of respect for people who have managed to deal with severe anxiety. I feel pretty helpless as a bystander, but I hope she finds a solution for herself, too. Cheers, mate.
I'm sorry for what you and your mom are going through. If you haven't seen Doctor Mike D.O. on "The Diary of a CEO " podcast, I highly recommend it. He talks about his battle with depression following the death of his mother. How he couldn't get out of bed to do simple daily tasks like brushing his teeth. It is a wonderful podcast with a powerful message. It may help both you and your mom battle this ugly disease!!
I'd say his desire wrt to exercise is like cooking. It used to be something we had to do, but now we have takeout, premade meals, etc. that make it no longer a strict necessity. People that do because they enjoy or find it therapeutic still do it anyway.
in defense of bald dr mike my assumption is that from his utopian view point, eventually medicine would get to the point where your depression and anxiety would be completely cured by medicine. I love dr. mike, but I hope maybe when he isn't in meathead juicing mode he can have an easier time realizing the contradictions with his optimistic idea of the future. at least it isn't really harmful.
This jawn like an articulate super villain origin story. He said “I remember I once liked trees”
Hahaha what a perfect way to put that!
But so charismatic honestly
As someone who likes trees, I’m so sad for him.
@@malxnt if you think about it most of the best/most fearsome super villains are extremely charismatic in the public eye...that's how they become billionaires, political leaders, national heroes...they flash a Colgate smile and an I want a better world for our children speech and the world gobbles it up while they work on their doomsday device in some secret lab in a warehouse district that apparently nobody questions a constant stream of semi trucks hauling in electronics bits and bobs, and heaps of nuclear waste.
@@desertsavagery Yeah but those types of people don't tend to follow academia or admit when they're wrong. People like Trump, Andrew Tate, even Elon Musk, are very adamant in their beliefs and amass a following because of it.
We see him admit several times in the discussion he might be wrong and is willing to listen to Mike and be civil and rational. I moreso meant I think he's funny and amiable. Besides, much this conversation was purely theoretical and not meant to be taken as fact. Nothing wrong with two scientists sitting down and theorizing about the future.
Great to see Dr Mike getting more mainstream recognition (completely unhinged humor included)
Absolutely agree
Just wish his politics were better, he listens to Sam Harris who is a very well known islamaphobe and a bunch of other bad opinions
You “just wish his politics were better” ? Sounds like you wish he agreed with your political opinions rather 😅
Literally everyday I see him on a different podcast even really obscure ones with a few thousand subscribers and I watch them all lol
@@Rockardo_ All religions are flawed and some much more flawed than others. Sorry that reality doesn’t agree with your preferences.
Doctor Mike and Dr. Mike are both such great active listeners! they both give each other space and room to talk and you can tell they listen properly and respond and reflect back to each other. this was one of the best interviews
Dr. Mike is the idealist I used to be about advancements in medicine, and Doctor Mike is the pragmatist I currently am refusing to believe big pharma would ever invent anything that useful that's also affordable and without long term side effects.
I wonder how much Israetel actually thinks about the sociological/political aspects of the pharmacological advancements he's talking about or is he speaking from a strictly scientific point of view. In a bubble those pills and genetic engineering sound great but I agree in a human society there's no way the average person would ever be able to access them.
Both of these guys are brainwashed and so are you and I, isn’t life great?
Yup. The profit motive for pharma is way too high. Looking at the history of companies like Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline, etc, it’s clear that they don’t mind gambling with people’s lives for the prospect of turning a profit. Creating a permanent fix for a problem isn’t nearly as profitable as treating the problem forever.
I remember seeing late 90s forum posts on how there would be a immediate fix for hairloss via an easy pharmaceutical invention & that it would be here in the next decade. Well, it's 2024 & Dr. Mike is bald 🤷♂️ @RasmusSvedin
@sagedangelo-sylvia1925 a consipiratorial minded person might even see him as some kind of paid advocate for somebody... the
"let's just reduce our flght/fight response"
Make the populace more docile and malleable while stimulating positivity chemically.
It literally sounds like a fallout vault experiment... we happy few etcetc.
This guy is so smart and doesn't see that connection? Could be that idealistic but it's just hard not to go down the alterier motivations path.
Despite his struggles and letting us know how he feels, he's such a respectful and soft dude. I love that he controls it, but I wish he didn't put himself through that.
What are you talking about
@@VintageVoid3 you have trouble reading? You haven't watched the video because it hasn't been live for long enough for you to have finished it 🫡
@@braddo7270 It's worse than that, they didn't even watch the first minute!
@@vvoof2601 haha I'm used to it on here 🤣
He's a professional athlete, you could say it's an extreme sport. Professional athletes do a lot of things that might be very unhealthy long term, even if they are not enhanced. It's a choice he made to achieve his goals in life, just like other people make other choices to achieve their goals. The problem is when people do this stuff without being educated about the consequences.
As someone who works in the tech sector with AI, I can say pretty confidently that the view of AI expressed by guest Dr Mike is very rosy. It's decades farther out than he thinks if we manage it at all.
Yeah he really seems to just assume that all tech will be exponential without stop. Where it is exponential as people pump resources into it. but then it reaches a point where it becomes more logarithmic.
Yeah, the curve is exponetial, for sure, but it pans out. The AI boom now is actually the second boom, the first one wasnt just as big. But LLMs are cool and all, but they are based on humans and it makes stuff up with a 100% belivability. Its cool. But useful to that extent? Nope. No way near. What he speaks of is artifical general intelligence and we are FAR off from reaching that.
Also. Humanoids for everyone in 2030s? Are we just gonna stop creating other stuff and suck every resource out of the world?
His optimism sure is a breath of fresh air, but it feels a little delusional.
@@Tobsson I don't know that I'd go as far as delusional, mostly because he is obviously not deeply involved or knowledgeable about the actual state of the technology and how it works (and thus how it is likely to evolve over the next decade or two). There's so much hype about "AI" (really LLMs) but it feels to me like 3D TV mostly.
@@Zelmel not as a whole, he feels very well educated on most of what he talks about, but I'm a lot more pessimistic about alot of what he talks about. Therefor it feels a little out there to be talking about AI solving all of our problems.
I wouldn't use "delusional" for everything that he talks about. Just specifically the AI part. As someone who use AI a lot in my work I know how bad AI can be, but still feel amazing with the response it gives.
That's just what you might be working on or aware of..
These two gentlemen are so humble yet chose to hype each other up. It’s so wholesome. Like when you meet someone else with the same first name as you and unwittingly become pals after just through namesake. What a discussion. Bravo!
Dr. Mike Israetel made some really bold statements that shook me a little bit, but it triggered a great discussion and it wasn’t like he gave a definitive answer. You can tell Dr. Mike (with hair) is much more hesitant and skeptical than Dr. Mike (without hair) about modernity, and I think we need both types of people.
Edit: Woah thanks for the feedback and thanks for liking my comment Dr. Mike (with hair🙃)
I think buff Mike is really reaching with his predictions.
We need both hairy and bald Mikes.
@@thedeathcake I think so too. I think he’s aware of that though, but it does raise eyebrows. I still have a lot of respect for him though.
He's very optimistic and I like that. We need both of them. One to inspire motivation and one to inspire caution.
@@danieldiri2969absolutely, there's a golden mean in the middle that leads to sustainable improvement
Could you two please please please have a monthly episode discussing latest health news together???!!!! Love your two perspectives and push backs together! You are both so so so smart, mature and eloquent. It would be a monthly gem!
I love that Dr. Mike is so willing to admit the kind of role that luck plays in viral internet popularity. Too many influencers try to attribute their success solely to “the grind” or “the right mindset” while thousands of other people do the same stuff as them but go completely unnoticed. Super humble dude and I think it shows just how grateful he is for his success.
And shouted out his videographer
@@Sa3vis Scott the video guy, the man, the myth, the legend.
Yeah, it’s great. With his science background he’s very aware of biases and fallacies.
Doctor Mike is such a great interviewer, and Dr. Mike is such a great guest.
Questions are asked, answers are given, and then Doctor Mike will follow up and ask pointed questions about those answers.
But Dr. Mike is ready for them and happy to discuss them. Just delightful to see both sides so interested in talking and reaching, if not agreement, then understanding.
Dr Buff Mike , don't put yourself down my guy. I clicked in this podcast because of you ! I love your videos on your channel and I'm sure Dr Mike is also a great creator but I clicked on this because of you !
Same❤
It’s very refreshing seeing an educated discussion between two people with completely different perspectives while also being respectful to each other. Great podcast!
I'm not sure about the educated. The AI thing is full of misconceptions. He needs to watch a few videos of how it actually works (I'm a mathematician and programmer, so I am more familiar with the roots of the topic).
What an intelligent, respectful, conversation. It's so refreshing to see people be able to have a discussion, and at times disagree with each other, while remaining courteous and thoughtful to the other's perspective. If only this kind of discourse was more prominently displayed on the interwebs.
Absolutely. They are both intelligent adults, and they actually act like adults. Very rare in today's world.
In fairness, it's easy when the person you're talking to doesn't have morally grotesque points of view
Intelligent? He said he wants an exercise pill that eliminates physical exercise lol wtf
@@Dr.SpatulaNot as easy of a trope to find in the wild as it should be (I formed my sentence very deliberately there)
Dr. Mike succeded at his goal. He helped me tremendously to break tru plateaus in the gym. Hope i get a chance to meet him. Love to shake his hand and say thank you. He's awesome
he won't care if camera is not rolling
@qwerty-rh6ht That doesn't matter to me. He's giving great advice that works. Can't say the same about most exercise internet celebrities.
I've waited for Doctor Mike and Dr Mike for some time now
(Edit: I changed it.. *giggles*)
I was literally thinking about it yesterday.
@@bolillo5013 SAME! I'm glad to see this episode
Yup both are awesome
Doctor Mike and Dr. Mike*
@@thechugdude Fair, haha
Mike Isratel is such an eloquent speaker and knows just how to get to the crux of what he's trying to say. Excellent communicator, loved having him on the show.
I started exercising a couple years ago, as a way to cope with my dad dying and some other things instead of getting back on fentanyl. I've been watching channels like Dr. Isratel and Derek from MPMD since I got into it. It feels like I've learned so much from those channels. I just exercise at home, but I'm really happy with the progress I've made with my figure. I have over 5 1/2 years clean now. The last time I used was Dec. 17, 2018; I woke up on the bathroom floor with the needle still in my arm.
Good stuff my man. Just keep improving 💪
Hell. YES. 5 1/2 years is an incredible accomplishment man.
Have you tried signing up for Americas Got Talent?
Wtf 😂😂@@Siethon1
Congrats on changing your life for the better!
I love watching podcasts like this, not even between these two per say, just the attitude they have is perfect. One of them talks, the other listens and asks questions. Most podcasts I see, one person talks and the other nods along and goes "Woah thats so cool" but they're not doing that which I really appreiciate. It's nice to hear just two people having a conversation that has a clear way to go as opposed to one that has no direction. Thanks Dr and Doctor Mike
Am I the only one that finds Dr. Mike’s voice and tone soothing 🫣
Which one?
No, he is soothing. And not just because i want to rub his smooth dome.
@@gregorteply9034 Both
@@gregorteply9034 the one with the soothing voice...
No
I mean world class, both of you. This should be a regular thing, the way you two go back and forth with real points while also being respectful is rare to see. Please do more.
It's like a breath of fresh airto watch two people who disagree engage in a good faith discussion! Why don't we ever get that on mainstream media?
Because it’s uncomfortable. I felt uneasy listening to buff Mike but I’m glad I now have his perspective to consider.
Do you happen to live in America?
This podcast was very eye opening to me, not only what was spoken about but also the fact that both of these people are truly the definition of intellectuals. The fact that they are listening to each other speak without simply agreeing, and questioning in a logical manner and not just to prove they’re more clever but to truly understand each other and make the other see what they may have missed, and the fact that the other also answers with logic not ego, it’s just amazing and quite rare to see in this day and age.
Love Dr Mike Isratel and this talk. Showcases his humility, dead-pan humor, depth of knowledge, depth of thought and eloquence. Thanks for bringing him in.
This was a fantastic collaboration! I'm genuinely shocked Dr. Mike was able to make it through a 2 hour conversation without making an overt sex joke!
Hahaha!! Same thing I was thinking
Well the erectile dysfunction kinda!
Right! And Israetel was great too.
Dr Mike talking about having no positive feeling let's me now see how hard he has to try to act "surprised" by something and not in a bad way. But as someone who is neuro divergent it is very comforting to see that other people who have other reasons for having this happen
If you look into the past, young girls used to face higher rates of rape, incest, harassment, and trauma. Kids used to go through puberty (if they got there) in factory jobs, dangerous apprenticeships, or straight up slavery. Cabin fever and widespread cocaine and heroin addiction effected women who were stuck at home caring for piles of kids and taking care of homes and farms. My grandmother died of breast cancer at 34. My grandfather died in a construction job cave-in. People who think screen time is the worst problem humanity has ever had would be utterly devastated by the tragedy and pain experienced every day at any era before now.
It’s not good for your eyes or physical fitness but we don’t need to catastrophize it either.
Just because kids are physically safer doesn’t mean they are healthy, mentally or physically
I have to say, I came from Israetel and the algorithm brought me to Doctor Mike.
I follow both, but watch waaay more Dr Mike than Doctor Mike.
💀@@jzen1455
Other way around for me but I am happy I found both 😊
You guys talking NEEDS to be a regular thing. Genuinely this was amazing. The discourse was amazing
There's so much room for diet / fitness talk they didn't get to
I love the idea that Dr. Mike thinks people who go to the gym would challenge themselves in other ways if we had a muscle making pill, and people who wouldn't have done the work anyway can still benefit from said pill.
I think it's also important to remember that some people simply enjoy that specific kind of grind. Even with a muscle maker pill, we'd still have gyms. 3D printing exists, but we still have woodsmiths, because they find that journey beautiful. An easy alternative doesn't ruin that.
3D printing has downsides. Woodcraft exists because 3D printing can't replace it.
You are right.
The moment someone invents this pill someone's going to try a 10x cycle of it
As someone who goes to the gym on a regular basis, It's been a while since my body shape isn't the thing I train for anymore (it's a nice plus don't get me wrong).
I just like non-competitive sports, I run too, I like to get better at something by putting efforts into it.
I don't like competition the only opponent I want is myself and I don't like combat sports cause I don't want to risk hurting people.
So yeah gym and running are my favorite physical activities, because of what they are not just because I wanna look good (it's part of it, but not everything)
Good point but the 3D printer was not the best example.
They have very different limits than molded plastics and even more limits than steels or woods
Two hours of intellectual and witty conversation, what a gift. The algorithm did me good this time.
I work as an AI scientist and I love Mike Israetel, and I've lived through over and under estimations of progress, but some of the things he said makes me wanna jump into the screen. I am not philosophically more qualified than him, other than in the fact that I think more about AI and am surrounded by people who think about AI. It's great how he clearly loves to learn and is excited about multiple fields of science, but we are fundamentally limited by computability (in the theoretical sense, not the magnitude), and this is something we have no metric on how long it will take to escape.
Where can I learn more about this theoretical-sense limit of computability? Would love to know more.
Well, there is an unscrupulous solution that will shade the A gray and without a doubt is being explored.
Yeah. Most of his future-thinking talk was pure science fiction parroted (and actually directly quoted SamA) from people who stand to benefit from all of it in absurd and profound ways.
He talks like his vision of 2030 is a foregone conclusion when a lot of things he talks about might not even be possible over any timeframe.
Correct. Thank you.
Ngl, he seems like a nice guy, but Istraetel really seems to to be a good example of the Dunning Kruger effect
just saying that these are a blessing. having the FREE option to listen to well establish professionals is something I hope people see is truly priceless.
Doctor Mike earned a subscriber here. When it the conversation turned to the harms of social media he did awesome. I really like the way that he pushed back with evidence and also anecdotes from what he as a physician sees day to day. He did not let Dr Mike Israetel’s claim go unchallenged. 👏 bravo!
It was an interesting exchange. I think Israetel was essentially correct, the more 'modern' the world is, the better it objectively becomes, and subjective harms like the rise in anxiety really are primarily a mismatch between our genetic psychological makeup and a safer, easier world than it was meant to survive in. The rational conclusion from that is either that we eventually stop making the world better, or start changing our genetically programmed responses, which is the same conclusion Israetel put forward. The world needs both pragmatists to keep what we have afloat, and dreamers to push us forward...I think those are the two perspectives we see playing out here between Doctor Mike and Dr. Mike. Perhaps you're also a pragmatist, and perhaps I'm also a dreamer🙂
@@SeuOuwhile I think that was true for essentially all of human history, and in less developed countries it still is, in the developed world it absolutely getting worse. For instance, I live in Canada and the cost of living is insane. My parents work at the same place I do, and by the time they were my age they owned a house and I will never be able to buy a house, if things don’t change.
@@SeuOu bro, great comment
I'm half an hour in and this guy is fkn outstanding, you can just tell he's *so* mentally sharp and he's able to articulate his points so well it's inspiring.
“Sure” probably the most respectful way to say I don’t exactly agree but go ahead😂
Yep. It's the polite way of recognizing an argument then setting your counter up. I use it in debate all the time 😂
Bro is riding the AI hype train soooo hard, it’s cringe!
@@billysgeowhat is cringe about AI? Maybe I'm not there in the video yet and he is glazing current gen AI but eventually it will absolutely make information and talent learning wildly more accessible.
@@grantking4032bro snap back to reality
@@billysgeo you are ignorant about how AI works and its exponential groawth
Conversations like these is why Internet should exist. Amazing point of view. I’m genuinely amazed at the honest and open conversation that they both had, I get both the POV and agree with both of them. Looking over the “real-world” problems like dr.Mike is a very “child like” perspective that I needed. And the “hesitant” mindset like doctor Mike is what I already have. Dr. Mike’s perception of things really opened my brain. Amazing conversation. Loved it!!!
watching people with different opinions is definitely underrated nowadays, people are quick to click off the video as soon as they dont agree
His success is due to his intelligence, humour and eloquence. I don't care about workout whatsoever, I watch every one of his videos because I'm still a science nerd and he has insane charisma
Mikes also really a science nerd, but his cup of tea is human biology and physiology.
What I appreciate most about Dr.Mike (the bald one) is how much credit he gives his team and Scott the video guy. That's a stand up fella right there
I've been watching Doctor Mike for years, but I just discovered doctor Mike a month ago or so and have been loving his content. Nice to see my two favorite doctors named Mike have an entertaining and educational chat.
I found both semi-recently and I was hoping Doctor Mike would have Dr. Mike on at some point
The exact opposite for me. Dr. Mike was niche even a couple of years back but it was obvious his content was more intelligent than most bodybuilding-related stuff at the time. They are so different, yet great in their own ways.
I absolutely love Mike Israetel and was disheartened when he talked about having anxiety issues because of steroid use. As someone who had debilitating GAD (which is now under control) I cannot imagine what sort of illogical fears he lives with.
He also mentioned that steroid use is linked with lower intelligence and I really hope it doesn't impact him. I want Mike to live a full, wonderful life.
Well he theoretically knows what is up so he makes his own decisions with "full" awareness. But the scary thing would be if he failed himself and went gonzo.
The amount of sublteties, humor, and sarcasm woven into great well-informed discussion is just beautiful.
This guy is so well spoken it’s fascinating
Dr Mike is the only gear bro that nattys trust because he never fed us bullsh*t. Worthy of his success.
Man what a thoughtful and articulate guy Dr. Mike Israetel is. I have watched his channel before but the more serious side of him in this long form interview format is great.
Agreed, I prefer this version of him. Dr Mike DO got the best out of Isratel for sure
If you like this side of him, he has a secondary channel, Mike Israetal: Making Progress where he discusses various issues and his point of view on them, very intellectual
14:50 as a researcher of gene therapy for deafness, I can tell you that 15 years is very optimistic. One can only hope 😊
Sadly, some things are easier to fix than others, and it's usually the "less important" things
Well, he said that progress can be exponential, and it's been in the past.
For you, now, it might seem that 15 years is optimistic, until you or a colleague of yours makes a breakthrough discovery that moves the field years or even decades forward. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens more often than people think.
Yeaa but ure just a human though
Not mentioning that many diseases are polygenic too
We're banking on AGI resolving hurdle after hurdle. We won't have AGI until around then.
Dr. Mike is the epitome of "if you say something confidently, everyone will believe you." No disrespect to Dr. Mike, a lot of what he says is well thought out and researched, but he also makes outlandishly bold and false statements as if they were facts.
It is refreshing to see someone with his point of view and elegance of speaking. But damn you rly gotta listen close to a few of the things he says so you don't just get swept up in agreeing with him.
He's perfectly juxtaposed with Doctor Mike's own beliefs, creating a good checks and balances system so you don't just get swept up in whatever each of them is saying.
Exactly. Some of the statements are wildly inaccurate and also only speaking on his one-sided perspective.
hell yeah, dont provide any examples from the video and just give blanket statements. what did this accredited doctor say that you think is false?
personally I don't have a Crystal ball but his intelligence and optimism multiply eachother leading to some overconfident beliefs in positive outcomes for the human race that work within the vacuum of his philosophical reasoning but seem ridiculous when you remember reality by just stopping and thinking for a second.
Like, robot butlers for homeless people 10 years from now is a pretty obvious example. But also the lack of scepticism in how surrendering tasks to a vastly superior intelligence could be bad for us through our inability to first of all be able to check whether this intelligence truly has our best interests at heart ( because we are not smart enough and because we surrendered out checks and balances to it specifically) but also because better according to humans might not necessarily be better according to machines causing a gradual loss of humanity, and where that will lead is anyone's guess.. good or bad is no longer a statement you can make here. Furthermore I was talking under the assumption the machine is attempting to improve us which might be bad for us , there is always the possibility this inconceivable vast intelligence does not want to improve us one day but do rather the opposite , and having surrendered our entire infrastructure to it we would have no way of either knowing or resisting.
Also separately I might be wrong but isn't a regulated free market economy an oxymoron. Or is it just an example of idealism where theory is just completely divorced from reality on the basis of moral principle.
Ps I do really admire and enjoy Dr. Isreatel and am in no way trying to diminish his opinions or intelligence. I was just debating.
Can you give a few examples of his outlandishly bold and false statements?
@@Orsteep Pretty sure they mean his opinions on AI and technology in the future. Which aren't statements or facts, but a lot of people in this comment section don't seem to understand the difference.
I agree with the point on bullying. I was bullied alot in grade school and high school, but I grew up to know that bullying was something I didn't like, so I didn't bully people and I teach my neices not to be a bully.
Yes but at the same time i dont think he really understands the rest of how social media impacts the brain. Like he says the exposure to negative outcomes will "toughen them up" but in many cases all it does is just crush and break people. Like think about how many people are messed up adults who need therapy. And thats before social media got as bad as it is now.
I do think some adversity can make people grow stronger, but the kind of adversity we see now is like the kind of adversity kids who get a6used by thier parents face. Most people dont just "harden up" from being torn down like that. And its not just from bullying, the upward comparisons can take self criticism to levels of neuroticism and diagnosable illness.
The odds of two Russian Dr./Doctor Mikes existing, being known RUclipsrs and being in the same room is so improbable on a cosmic scale, my brain can't handle it.
They are also athletes
Mikhail is like John. Very common name. Also being Jewish and a doctor, very common :)) much higher probability
It's actually not. Humans existing and you being born is improbable on a cosmic scale. The next part isn't that unlikely.
Is Isratel Jewish too? I knew Mike was
AI will handle it for you😆
Dr. Mike is very optimistic, and I do see where he's coming from societally and geneologically when he's compartmentalizing things like anxiety issues/depression/social media addiction on a macro-scale. The issue comes down to practicality for the individual, as someone who has struggled with mental illness and is just now getting the help I should have been pursuing for years those issues seem much larger to me, and to millions of others in similar conditions. I enjoy the tempering edge that Doctor Mike brought to the philosophical discussion, two sides of a coin and all that. Good watch.
In reality, we keep ignoring things like inequity, hate groups and accessibility, so definitely an optimist.
The part of the “AI will fix the world” viewpoint that I really push back on is stratification. There is nothing that people with money and power, in general HATE more than poor and powerless people getting money and power. As AI and genomics and robotics improve exponentially (which I also think he’s misusing nominally), the rich and powerful will get more rich and powerful, and the poor and powerless will stay that way.
While i agree to an extent, there is a critical mass of inequality that people are not willing to accept. And when that point is reached, the poor do exercise their unquestionable power. Its happened hundreds of times throughout history. The top of the pyramid is eventually always held responsible by the bricks holding it up.
I mean look at how much better we love compared to someone in the industrial revolution things get better and some tech just gets out cars the Internet etc doesn't stay a thing of the rich forever
The difference now is the rich have apocalypse bunkers, nukes, and a millitary force. They know about the topling of greedy kings in the past and this time if it happens, they are willing to destroy all life on earth if the poora rebel, or easier yet, send the poors waring with eachother.
such has been the way for technological advancements through the course of history. Well said. I think there will be more equal distribution than say, plate armour for knights vs peasants in medieval europe, but definitely i expect there will be class divides still.
The world is still made of people so I'd say the worst case scenario of just the rich getting richer is not very likely. With AI it's kind of a coin flip whether it's going to be locked up inside the closed doors of some company and monopolized or if open source will prevail. Currently Zuck is driving for open source but if they came up with something AGI level first I'm not so sure they would share it. But I see it's pretty likely that we are going to continue the trend where even a single person can do increasing amounts. Like now with 3D printing you can manufacture stuff in your bedroom and have AI for an all knowing assistant so in the future some mad scientist types can do advanced medical research etc. all on their own making it more unlikely that a single company can somehow monopolize all knowledge and talent and dominate
I know every comment is about Dr. Mike and Dr. Mike being the greatest crossover of all time but it is.
I like that this feels like two pros bouncing ideas off each other, you can see their minds working and thinking
Great to see two guys have an intelligent conversation regarding a swathe of different issues and solutions. Found doctor Mike through dr Mike. Gotta love em both. All the best from Scotland guys. 🏴
Wow, I love this! Big Mike's honest reflections and forward-thinking takes, Beewoop Mike knowing how to let their guest loose on a topic, the utterly casual yet respectable abidance of differing opinions. What a pair. These two could be their own show, I feel so good after listening to this.
The two Mike's together made the point beautifully that just because the technology exists, that doesn't mean we're going to use it properly.
I don't think Dr Mike takes into account class disparity, intersectionality and wealth hoarding. But his optimism is refreshing.
I think it's more like he see's it as ultimately irrelevant. He argues that the world is safer today than it was 100 years ago...perhaps especially so for the rich, but even for the destitute. Do you see what I mean? In his view, things will continue to get better, both for the rich and the poor, the socially advantaged and the disadvantaged. Even if the wealthy and advantaged benefit the most from this, it doesn't alter the point being made. So I think he does take the things you mentioned into account...at the very least, I very much worry about the things you mentioned, yet I still agree with Dr. Mike.
@@SeuOu But for the middle and lower class things havent been improving, quite opposite. Owning a home has become more difficult then ever in human history. 100 years ago I could get piece of land and just build myself a house. Now, in the west, you need obscene amounts of money to get basic house.
@@SeuOuall signs in the environment, geopolitics, economy, domestic politics say otherwise. We are on the downside of the bell curve now unless some super miracle happens
the problem for 90% of the population centuries ago was not starving for bad harvests or for getting a common cold. His point is that nowadays we have problems that in a future might be just history, thanks to the advance of technology.
@@SeuOucorrect. The amount of gun deaths nowadays is highly publicized in America, but even compared to the 70s-90s the actual number TOTAL has plummeted. We’re around 40k per year in America now with many being suicides. Back before security cameras and the modern security measures we have we had numbers in the hundreds of thousands.
Nothing really has changed all that much with firearm ownership but nowadays there’s tons more deterrents.
Overall living conditions are better, even if inflation is HORRIBLE. There are less people starving and less people homeless than past decades.
The quality of life in America is leagues better than it was 100 years ago. Even for the poorest of the poor.
Damn, I just saw a short of this interview, and Dr. Buff Mike's voice is just incredible and his way of speaking so engaging it drew me to come watch the whole podcast.
Can we just appreciate the honesty and transparency of Dr. Israetel? He's such an amazing guy and his scientific approach is so interesting
This is one of the best just most genuine discussions I've had the pleasure of seeing, pure curiosity and the need to understand better, I love this. If we could drop the ego and do this, things would be so much better for us humans.
Doctor Mike is an excellent interviewer. I have a ton of thoughts and opinions on this interview, but I'll just say Doctor Mike did a fantastic job at interviewing.
++++
This jacked Doctor Mike is an excellent communicator. I loved his ideas
He's basically the best source of fitness information on youtube.
Found out about Dr. Mike *Israetel a week ago
Tried to find a vid of the two Dr. Mike's reacting to each other but couldn't find any.
This podcast is a gift
Israetel. I'm sure auto correct got you on that one
Now we need Mike Syria, Mike Jordan, Mike Iraq, Mike Iran, Mike Kuwait, Mike Oman, Mike Yemen, Mike Afghanistan, Mike Lebanon, Mike Egypt, Mike Qatar, Mike Bahrain, Mike Saudi Arabia, Mike Turkey and Mike Somewhere Else In The Middle East I Might Have Forgot
(I'm avoiding 🇵🇸) On purpose
@@bullymaguire632 to be fair we do already have a Mike Jordan lol
The bromance between them going back and forth saying, your better no You're better, is what I love and live for. More of this please!!
Personal Trainer here, I don't try to work my clients as hard as possible to prove how good my work is - it's about the nuance of getting to personal goals, and those pathways are very individual. It annoys me to see trainers making exercise horrible for people and wondering why they can't stick with it.
Thats why I could never be a PT, I love understanding the body and knowing how to train well for my goals where as most people just want results in a way that they can stick to it they dont care about learning everything
Those trainers are like me and need to focus on the more extreme side of fitness where you have people training properly progressively overloading dieting decently etc but with that they need to make sure their knowledge is also at a high point because these people have already taken steps to learn as much ad they can they just want extra help
Yep. If it was actually possible for everyone on the planet to sustain an optimal diet and training regime then everyone would be an athlete already. imo the key to making fitness sustainable long term, which is where you need to be if you want to see gains, is to leave something in the tank most sessions.
You always know when you're pushing too hard. Getting anxiety when you're about to do a brutal set of squats close to failure is normal, but when you start feeling like that about the entire session it's time to dial it down a notch. Most people are not capable of sustaining that level of effort for any meaningful length of time (i.e. 3+ years). And ideally you want to be able to sustain whatever you're doing for the rest of your life.
Kirsten, I really like your training approach. When I first started going to the gym regularly, I was nervous and a bit shy, so I hired a PT to show me how to use the machines correctly etc...he only had one setting, low reps and every set to absolute muscle failure. I picked up a new injury every week until I finally cut ties. Now I train 10 hours a week, long warmup sets, higher rep range, stop at technical failure, and have zero injuries and good gains. I just wish he had been like you, looked at my scrawny middle aged beginner physique, and made a training plan I could actually do without dying, lol.
@@Johnpdf For sure, and that is part of being an effective personal trainer, we make the plan that gets people to their goal and teaches them what they want to know. I have worked with clients who want to learn about their bodies biomechanics, and how to push themselves - great fun for everyone involved - and I have worked with people who really just want to move their bodies and not get injured. I believe there is space for everyone's version of working out, and for sure appreciate the people who want to learn.
Great chat between two gentlemen. It's great when a RUclips video makes you that little bit smarter.