How (and Why) Spelunky Makes its Own Levels
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
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Spelunky will always keep you guessing, by making a fresh set of 16 levels every time you play. In this episode we look at how creator Derek Yu strikes a balance between random and authored levels to make stages that always feel fun and fair - and why it's important that this game never gives you the same level twice.
Quotes and info came from "Spelunky", by Derek Yu and Boss Fight Books
bossfightbooks...
With additional information from "Spelunky Generator Lessons" by Darius Kazemi
tinysubversions...
And, the ultra helpful "Yet Another Spelunky Mod" by TakeNapEveryDay
takenapeveryda...
You can play Spelunky Classic for free on PC
spelunkyworld.c...
Or on Mac
forums.tigsour...
Games shown in this episode (in order of appearance):
Spelunky (Derek Yu, 2012)
Super Mario World (Nintendo, 1990)
Super Castlevania IV (Konami, 1991)
Spelunky Classic (Derek Yu, 2008)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time (Konami, 1991)
Music used in this episode:
Adventure Begins (Spelunky, Eirik Suhrke)
Adventure Jingle (Spelunky, Eirik Suhrke)
Caves (Spelunky Classic, George Buzinkai and Jonathan Perry)
Credits (Spelunky Classic, George Buzinkai and Jonathan Perry)
Yeti Caves (Spelunky, Eirik Suhrke)
Temple A (Spelunky, Eirik Suhrke)
Credits (Spelunky Classic, George Buzinkai and Jonathan Perry)
Ice Caves Easter Egg (Spelunky, Eirik Suhrke)
Contribute translated subtitles - amara.org/v/C3...
its never stated enough how disgustingly good your editing is
well with just editing you won't get an amazing video....
And he nails it too with an in-depth video within a limited time, whcih is awesome!
Fucking disgusting
It’s absolutely ridiculous. I swear he just really loves doing clever charts and graphs and whatnot.
It either means the editing is not horrible enough to mention, or seamless enough to not notice.
Damn well now I’m paying attention to it and getting discouraged
This was awesome Mark! Exactly why I love this game so much. Like you said, it took many many many times playing through before I started to realize how it was all pieced together, but you do start to notice the patterns eventually, and yet it's always fresh and (most important) fun. I really want to pick up the book, I was really intrigued when I first heard about it. Cheers man, glad to know someone else loves Spelunky as much as me :)
hallo sno :00000
Oh, look at that, its snomaN! You both guys are inspiring me to make a game design/analysis channel in Brazilian portuguese, just wanted to let you know :)
Proof that spelunky fandom is underrated and non cringe 10/10
Wow, Mark doesn't even acknowledge you, and you made the Spelunky video first... 😕
always has been
The Amazing thing is that Spelunky basically started this trend of 'Rogue-lite' indie-games, but it still has one of the best level generators in the genre. While games like Isaac or Rogue Legacy generate only what rooms will be in the dungeon - but not the room themselves - Spelunky create levels from pieces of premade content creating ifinite number of possible adequate looking levels.
I can attest that in 200+ hours and multiple hell wins, I have never found a level which is impossible to progress through, although I have seen some on streams and youtube videos, along with levels you might get stuck in if you don't have the resources, like snake pits without bombs or ropes/mobility items.
Big Phat Walrus snake pits aren't meant to be 100% escapable, that's why they are risky! But you're right, every 10,000th level or so the algorithm will mess up and require a bomb to reach the exit.
Of course, some levels trap you if you don’t have bombs with traps or setpieces like the mothership.
That's why I love rougelikes that follow this style of level design, such as nuclear throne.
I think Isaac does randomly design levels, doesn't it?
I think this is my favorite video of yours. Really well done.
He's very good to listen to.
Wait you’re here?! Wow
Nice video! I really enjoy the "learning a system" part of games like spelunky. Guess I'm going to have to read that Spelunky book once I'm done with Empires of EVE.
Bit late, but trying to learn the jungle after mastering the caves was a nightmare!
Yes, Spelunky is a great example of how to do random generated levels right, and not as a crutch.
I'd like to see a similar video on Diablo 3 levels because - IMHO - that's a great example how to NOT do it right. I know Diablo has many fans, but the levels in that game are a pure definition of "soulless". There's absolutely nothing memorable in Diablo 3 level layout, there is no sense of pacing, no incentive to go just a little bit further to see what's next, they are just containers to put enemies in so you have something to click on and collect ridiculous amounts of loot. I have absolutely nothing against people who enjoy Diablo, I understand there is an inherent addictive quality to collecting loot and unlocking abilities but please... don't even try to say there's anything great in the way those levels are designed. I couldn't care less for "replayability" if I can barely stand going through the levels once.
The biggest testament to the quality of Spelunky's level generator is the shock and confusion you get when you play a game that doesn't have well-thought out level generation, and sometimes creates unwinnable maps, like The Swindle.
That's why you have to make sure there are no "islands", where you can't get to a certain point in the room, because it's blocked off.
To do a random generation, it exists probability mathematics.
Then, with that, you need to make the level 100 or 20 beateable, and if there's a combination where that percent is 0, you as a designer, need to get rid of it.
@@jkf16m96 dude, what the hell you just wrote
@@jkf16m96
Did you just have a stroke?
I just had a stroke reading that
Oooh, didn't know there was a book. Gonna have to grab that. Great job with the segment on visualizing the level generation - very polished, very easy to follow.
It's extremely rare but sometimes you can get a shop to spawn with a blocked entrance (dirt blocks). I have over 2000 deaths on the 360 version of this and have maybe seen this twice ever.
Conversely, I have yet to find the alien gun in a crate even though it's supposed to be possible. Go figure!
Plasma Cannon in crate is a 1/10,000 chance, so it makes sense that you haven't seen it yet
But what about an alien in a pot, still yet to see that.
I've seen the Plasma Cannon spawn in a crate in a few daily challenges but never in a legit game. I have ran into a few Yeti King levels where the path to the exit was completely blocked.
i was playing today and i found that! didnt know it was that rare :)
ive seen a blocked shop once
This is a game I've always meant to check out but never got around to it. I think this video might have pushed it into a must-play position. Thanks for the excellent video as always Mark!
+Writing on Games It's amazing. I think the main problem with it is that the difficulty curve is savage for the first hours, and people often get tired before learning to play.
Thanks for TrackMania my good sir.
Sometimes I tear up a little when I think about Spelunky and how excellently designed it is.
Another great episode as always. Mark, can I ask what typeface you are using or is it a trade secret? 4:12 looks a lot like Interstate but I can't tell. I'm mainly judging by the the quotation marks. It's sexy, I always love the lengths you go to make sure you design your videos properly, endlessly inspiring to someone who studies in the field of design. Keep it up!
Hahahaha I thought it might be DIN. Thanks!
Sounds like a compelling risk/reward. You can't make me pay for my crimes!
the cool thing about the map design is that it's basically how you would randomly generate a map for a tabletop game. you would have to have some system of making a path, filling out the extras, and then populating it
Fantastic video. That bit where you explained how the algorithm actually constructs the level was beautiful with those little visual assets and sound effects - great touch!
I haven't played a ton of Spelunky, but the bits that I did were a lot of fun and were extremely engaging. Really need to pay attention and be observant of the level's setup and enemies. I started to notice those repeating areas at points, and I think that was a genius idea. It allowed for smaller areas to become familiar, but the overall set-up of the levels was almost always different! Again, great video man - your shit's always great for gaining developer insight in a more structured (and accessible) manner!
you know i had the exact same reaction to terraria the levels are always fun and interesting as wel as being thematically and structurally consistent despite being randomly generated.
“I’ve never stumbled upon a crappy level”
Israel Blargh found an impossible level once
video link plz
Yep, mee to, after about 1800 games...
I found one yesterday that was impossible without items. 2 high corridor, with 2 spots on either end of the corridor where it was only one high.
A thwomp was stuck between those. Meaning I had to go through a 1 block space where I was on top of a thwomp. I had no bombs. RIP.
True, rarely the mothership will cause 3-4 to be impossible without a bomb. Very rare. But having a single bomb should get you through. Having zero bombs in Spelunky is a situation you never want to be in :)
Well, after 3600 runs(pls don't ask, I mess around with the shortcuts and spam quick restart waaaaayyy too much)and I rarely find an unwinnable situation
interesting, I'm going to start experimenting with this method.
same
THE OMEGA789
i made something similar but sometimes sometimes I block the exit..working on lol
Sparckman lol
Making this with click-team fusion?
THE OMEGA789
yaaaaaaaaaaaaap XD
Sparckman there is no other way ;)
I love clickteam
As great as this game is (play it daily atm) I wouldn't mind seeing a major update to it or even a Spelunky 2 with even more variety. More places to explore and either big levels or short ones. It's always the same size in Spelunky. I don't mind it that much since Spelunky is one of the best games I ever played. That's why I would love more!
I hope I win the lottery this weekend. Then I'll see into paying either Derek Yu or a different group who love Spelunky to make a huge update or Spelunky 2! :D
PS: I'd be ready to throw €60 at a Spelunky DLC.
SPELUNKY 2 IS CONFIRMED TO BE A THING NOW GET HYPE
Spelunky 2 exists now
Really great one. I thought the book was fantastic too, I hope Boss Fight get more designers to talk directly like this. It was kind of like the best postmortem ever? Anyway this is a really wonderful summary of Spelunky and edited so gorgeously, like you always do. Thanks for making it!
+Mike Cook Thanks Mike! Yeah, the book is great - tackles so many interesting aspects of development.
@@GMTK0:42
The way you described all the characteristics that make this game enjoyable, I could have sword you were describing any Pokemon mystery dungeon game. The only difference that I could tell was a leveling system vs score.
Those videos are so incredibly awesome. Helpful, entertaining, great prepared, wonderful spoken and with incredibly high quality. I am so sorry for not being able to support you on Patreon... Thank you so much for uploading those videos for free! Keep up the best work I have seen on RUclips yet!
Thanks! And any and all support is appreciated - leaving comments, sharing the vids, SMASHING that like button :)
ok... i discovered you channel yesterday and i have to say, your videos are awesome. A real sugar for my game designer brain! After seeing your spelunky video, i decided to include a procedural level generation in a school project. And i'll be sure to remember all your good tips for my futurs game jam submissions. Keep up the good work, you've got a new fan.
Loved this discussion of procedural generation done right. I love procedurally generated games, for example, Terraria, but I'd cite this as an example where it often goes awry, because I've generated levels several times that seemed to have no viable cave systems in range of the starting location, necessitating tedious digging in a random direction to find resources.
The first time I beat this game was one of my favorite game moments
Is this the same design pholsophy for Downwell?
I noticed similier layout design with different surprises.
+Aya ya Almost definitely - Downwell is heavily inspired by Spelunky (but awesome in its own way)
+Aya ya Yep, Spelunky was the first of this type of games. Now it's not alone but it's "The One".
Spelunky levels look notably better than, say, Minecraft's dungeons. Clearly the balance between "random generation" and "authorship" is a delicate one. Of course, this is something that RPG nerds have been dealing with in the form of random encounter tables for years. The comparison isn't perfect, but there's still a measure of authorship (what goes on this table and does it make sense) and random generation (roll d%).
Sometimes, it works well, and you can easily craft a narrative after a series of random encounters: "Those goblins were running from the werewolf who was cursed by the demonspawn." Other times, though, it's just a series of unrelated encounters that don't particularly make sense: "Wait, how did that ogre get food and water? She had a shadow spider nest on one side and a venomous tentacle demon on the other."
I don´t understand the first comparison. A minecraft Dungeon is basically a stone cube with a spawner in the middle and a chest. Of course a Spelunky level looks better. I think you meant something else with "Minecraft's Dungeons"
Rogther my guess is they meant any underground system in MC
@@daviddraper6468 yeah that is not good tbh, people are requesting a cave update for ages now
Love Spelunky but I'm sooo bad at it. Never came close to finishing it. I can't blame the game though. Everything feels spot on and the levels rarely feel unfair. You can always see the hazard and past runs inform you how to deal with each one. It's your fault if you mess up.
Hands down the best 2d indie game of all time. I just hope Derek or someone else makes a sequel or dlc because to me it feels there's even more possibilities for this genre of game. Great video
+jmiquelmb Oh man, I seriously think "Spelunky 2" would be more a exciting announcement to me than Half Life 3 at this point.
Maybe.
+Game Maker's Toolkit The annoucement of Half Life 3 at this stage would be something like "Oh... yeah... there was something... way in the past..." for me ^-^ Spelunky 2 on the other hand... well...
Oh yeah
That happened
SPELUNKY 2 BAYBEE
i had a feeling there would be a dunkey reference under that Read More ;P
you got it!
I got Spelunky years ago years ago, played a couple times, got frustrated and gave up rather quickly. Then Mark published this video and convinced me the game was worth another shot. Nearly two years later, I've put several hundred hours into the game, and it's become a slight obsession of mine. I bought Derek's book, play the daily challenge every day, and rank far higher than any of my friends. All because of this video. Thank you, Mark. Your channel is a blessing.
I feel sad, because I can tell from Mark's video how much of an amazing game Spelunky is... and I simply couldn't get into it.
you are right, mines 1-1 is a bitch
same, did not like it much. too hardcore for me.
@@josiahmartin329 It's only hardcore the first 500-1000 times. Then your fingers just magically do what you you want, and so does the guy.
Great content! Thank you for this. I know is 4 years too late but is still useful information.
Great video as usual! You're absolutely on point here. Spelunky was one of the first games with "procedurally generated" levels that I feel did it right. I find too many games that use the feature have maps that feel sterile and samey no matter what due to copy pasting assets & design and lack of detail among other issues. This one worked though. I can also say X-Com 2 did a good job with making its procedurally generated levels feel authored and if what I've heard from modders is correct, that's because Firaxis took a very similar approach of having it use authored templates and themes to avoid some of the dread issues of the technique.
Can you imagine a Dark Souls with randomly generated levels ? Or at least random enemy spawns ?
That would be something pretty cool, like you said forcing the player to master the mechanics instead of learning and remembering the levels (DS isn't just that ofc but it's still a big part of being good at the game).
+iopklmification I believe some of the Chalice Dungeons in Bloodborne are randomly generated.
+Game Maker's Toolkit Haven't played Bloodborne yet, but from what I've heard they get repetitive quickly and they're a little something on the side, not the core of the game.
But maybe they're the sign Miyasaki wants to randomize his formula after the souls series.
+Game Maker's Toolkit And mostly everybody hated them. Spelunky and Dark Souls are two of my top 10 favorite games, but in my opinion the souls formula is impossible to replicate unless every part of the game is carefully crafted.
Check out Chasm, it's a procedurally generated metroidvania, it isn't finished yet, though.
Look into a game called Necropolis :)
Very interesting episode as always :) Spelunky is a great game I spent over 200 hours playing
2018 anyone? Spelunky 2 is coming!
LOL 2019 here.... we're still waiting!
It needs to hurry the f up!
YEAHHHHHH BOIIIIII
o o f
less than 6 months to go though 👀
I vote that this general way of making randomly generated levels out of mostly premade room setups be called “Spelunkying.”
If you're sad that nerdwriter1 doesn't do videogames, then gmtk is your guy
The first rule in Spelunky is that you Don't Kill The Shopkeepers! Damn it. Great video BTW. Now I have to go play Spelunky for the thousandth time or so? Easily one of my favorite games in the last decade and I've often thought about the algorithym for creating levels in that game. I suspected it was grid based but it's really cool to hear all the other randomization. Such smart design.
Now, I know about that one thing with the eggplant everyone on Twitter was talking about. I'm actually torn about getting the book. On one hand, I'll be able to read up on what Derek Yu did to make the levels work with his proc-gen algorithm. On the other, I've known of how the levels were made for a while after reading the Spelunky Generator Lessons (URL: tinysubversions.com/spelunkyGen/), and I'm not a big fan of Spelunky's gameplay - or most 2D platformers, actually.
Regardless, I'm glad this games has somehow stood the test of Indie Time (i.e. the usual time it takes for most indie games to disappear from the popular conversation about games - roughly about 5-6 months), and I hope others - whether they be aspiring game developers or people looking for a good read - are able to read up on Derek Yu's design choices for what is possibly the most popular rogue-like since Rogue.
P.S. I'm so glad you're such an astute video developer, Mark. I was thinking of the Spelunky Generator Lessons, but I didn't know the full title. Thankfully (as I expected), you had a link to the lessons in the description for me to use in my own post for this. Great job on all of your videos, and I hope to keep placing these useful references in your Toolkit video descriptions.
2:22 Wrong. Strangely enough, I've seen Ice Caves levels where your path is completely blocked off and you _have_ to use bombs. In addition, the Alien Spaceship and King Yama special levels have an exit at the top and thus usually require ropes.
The way the levels are laid out, is often called a "digging" algorithm, where rooms either exist, or they don't, depending on how a path is carved out.
If you want to see the 90's game comparable to Spelunky, I would highly recommend "Captive", for the Atari ST. There's even a rather thorough article, breaking down it's level generation, in a step-by-step way!
Here's a link to the technical article:
captive.atari.org/Technical/MapGen/Introduction.php
I wonder how well a generative neural network would do at coming up with new levels for spelunky?
Inspiring and very informative, thanks for sharing your amazing knowledge Mark, I love Spelunky but certainly can cause all kinds of ragequits because it relentless difficulty.
Great video! A lot of interesting points as usual, especially that statement about the player being forced to make decisions that either end in regret from choosing poorly or satisfaction of a successful choice. I wonder if there is a golden ratio of failure vs success or an ideal graph for it maybe. Have you ever come across something like that or have an opinion on it yourself?
Great presentation of rooms being generated within the level! (Thanks for the mention of Yet Another Spelunky Mod.)
Really cool explanation of Spelunky's level mechanics! c:
man couldn't figure out what to use for the cover and really just went "f*&k it, ill just use an eggplant"
Boy do I want Mark to look at all the great design in 2
I have never played Spelunky, and never will. I'm sure it's a great game. I've played Eternal daughter - a metroidvania by Derek Yu - and loved it.
The artist who created the assets for Spelunky, by his on words, believes that logic was invented by a teenager in the 21st century, and that throwing temper tantrums in youtube comment sections is a mature response to critique.
To give you some idea what a mature response to criticism looks like: A few years ago, an inexperienced game developer started producing what were essentially shovelware games, and putting them on Steam Greenlight. One of his games - a management game called Chipper & Sons - attracted some attention when the trailer was reviewed by Jim Sterling, who described the game as 'terrifying', because the character models looked like dead-eyed animatronics. That developer's name was Scott Cawthon.
Wow,. Now that I think about it, FNAF is sort of structured like shovelware...
Did you know, you can carry the lamp in the shop if you remove the tile it's hanging from.
Spelunky 2 confirmed :)
You say that you're always able to progress without the use of items, yet this (steamcommunity.com/id/1TacocaT1/screenshot/913547533755311062) contradicts that statement.
You know when you've got something when you start naming the features. I remember the spectre in Saberwolf as "Avon" because it the willow the wisp would turn up with a jangly music, usually just as you were leaving the screen so you'd just get a couple of notes. Ding dong, Avon calling.
Saberwolf? Avon? Will-o-the-wisp? I have absolutely no clue what you’re on about.
every level of spelunky is personalized
Well, that's the design philosophy behind traditional roguelikes.
And that's why I kinda dislike some modern roguelike-likes with consistent progression between runs, it just kills the whole point of procedural generation in my opinion. Rogue Legacy for example feels really grindy and it can be brute forced (although you have to earn more money each run to be able to level up stuff, but it just doesn't work all that well in my opinion).
Binding of Isaac unlocks more stuff as you replay the game, but there are no consistent upgrades, so that's fine. Actually I think it's a nice idea for a game like this.
As nicely done as the Spelunky levels are, they aren't always perfectly made. In the mines it is possible (yet unlikely) to encounter completly walled off parts, because there is a wood-structure in the way, forcing you to use a bomb. Or the box and key aren't generated, so you have a hard time going to hell. Or in the jungle it's possible to encounter tiki-traps in places, so it's a 3 or even 4 tiles high jump, forcing you to use a rope.
But those levels are really rare, so they aren't that much of a bummer.
Example: In the temple, when I was playing, one time, a tiki trap stood in the way, forcing me to make a 4 block jump. If that trap wasn't there, I could have made it through without rope.
Actually, I believe that the key and the locked chest are "more guaranteed" to spawn than anything else. You can see this in Frozlunky. On the higher difficulties, even the 1-2 shop sometimes doesn't spawn, but the Udjat Eye is always there. I think when it supposedly isn't present, it's just that both the key and the chest were in a walled-off room above the main path.
i saw the title and said: cause they will remember everything and just complete it in 4 seconds like all speed runners do
What you said kind of reminds me of machine learning. To combat over-fitting (an A.I. committing its entire input data to memory to follow it exactly), its input data is kept new and varied so that the actual underlying patterns are learned rather than what the input was. For Spelunky, speedrunners have to actually master the game mechanics, not memorize the level layout.
learning about the tiny reach of my whip was really hard for me
Mark, I've watched a lot of videos your now (mostly within the last couple of hours). Your analysis does a lot to bridge the gap between the player and designer perspectives. A lot of the time, I feel that the player rarely ventures out of their precise perspective, which is a shame. Appreciating a game (or anything, really) requires that you appreciate the intent and work of the artist, as well.
I was looking for a video that went into the code in gamemaker and kinda explained it. would love to see a video like that about Spelunky and Wasteland Kings. :D Do you have the gamemaker files for wasteland kings and spelunky classic?
Excellent video! You're doing a great thing here for game artists, designers, and developers everywhere. You content is always very inspiring, and I hope you never stop!! Thank you!
Every time this guy says Mario my ears twitch. And he says it a lot
He put the eggplant emoji on his book cover...
i love this man.
0 ;38 which, in some games, spit out levels that are messy, unfocused and full of dead ends - my experience with FTL
Thank you for tackling such a great game! I had never seen Spelunky classic before and now I'm curious to go back and play it.
I love rogue-like games and played a lot of them, including some very hardcore, but for Spelunky... I tried to played it a few times, because everyone is agree to say it's awesome, but i don't know why, i can't enjoy it. Everytime i try to play it, i do a few levels, then i get bored and frustated, then i quit the game and just never launch it again. I really wanted to like this game, but idk, maybe it's because of this plateformer gameplay, it's not really what i like. I like other plateformer rogue-like, like the awesome Dead Cells for example, at least in Dead Cells we have a wiiiide variety of options in movement and attacks, but idk, in Spelunky it feels clunky, and the weak attack power of the character make me want to just avoid fights, so i rush to end of the level endlessly. Maybe i'm just doing it wrong :/
dude just disable the automatic title translations on your videos im sick of seeing titles in portuguese i want everything in english
YES FUCK MY NATIVE LANGUAGE
on a serious note, i dont like having titles in one language then the video itself in another
One of my favourite games of all time, Thanks for the amazing video as always 😁
How difficult is it for someone who is a good coder but useless at art? Also, can you actually make decent money from the games you create, let's assume it's above average in quality. Thanks for a great video, subbed and liked!
Ask Derek Yu why he allows Tiki traps to block the exits in the enterance gripsquare in like 0.1% of Jungle levels - 0/10 utterly unplayable
I kind of wish Spelunky and Spelunky 2 got the pixel-art treatment like Spelunky Classic did. I'm always a sucker for those kinds of looks.
Funnily enough, Spelunky was originally created in Game Maker, which was originally programmed by a Mark Overmars.
I've read a lot of forums and did a lot of research into Spelunky development, and I have to say it doesn't get much better then this video. Thanks for the great episode!
Btw would you be interested in doing in episode on Dwarf Fortress's world generation? It's a masterpiece!
Peashooter: I Love This Game, The Layout Changing, The Enemy Variants, Me Losing My Sanity When I Die On Temple 4-1 And Get Sent Back To 3-1 Just Every Time To See I Need To Get From The Mines With A Key To 3-4, But, The Ghost, Yes, It Chases You, Yes, Theres 3 Ways To Kill It. (UFO, Abyss, Lava,) But, Where Did It Come From, In Classic, We Know It Could Be Another Spelunker, Its Big Enough To Be One, But HD, Where Did It Come?
What We Know: Its Big, So Has A Big Hitbox, One Screw Up, Your Dead. Makes The Level And Music Weird. And Can Be Stunned By The Camera, But, Where Did It Come From, Its To Big To Be Another Spelunker. This Should Be Your Next Video. It Will Reveal Alot.
I'm sorry if I'm being annoying, but
~Shiren the Wanderer~
Great video as always, Mark!
i remember how i was in level 4-x, and there was no way going down because path down was locked, and i didnt had any bombs, 15 minutes of life wasted
Here's something that developers need to do more often.
MIX PROCEDURAL GENERATION WITH MANUAL DESIGN.
When designing a game manually, the developer has the opportunity to apply good concepts for level design.
However, procedural generation makes replayability and exploration much more dynamic and interesting.
Thing is, they can feel empty if you play for a while.
Thing is, you get the best of both worlds when you mix the two together.
Imagine No Man's Sky, except a few planets are hard coded so that they're always located at certain coordinates and are hand crafted by the developers.
This avoids the problem where everything feels empty and devoid of anything interesting, because interesting stuff is injected into the game.
You should try Caveblazers. It’s not as good as Spelunky I’d say, but the level design is very similar.
it's a masterpiece
spelunky is the game that inspired me to become a game developer, seeing the discussions on tigsource and knowing one guy made it was simply mindblowing at the time.
Very rarely, you need a bomb to get through a path
There was this Spelunky RUclipsr I watch (Israel Blargh), he was in the ice-caves (3-4), He got stuck since he the mothership blocked his way to go down, he didn't have any bombs left. IT WAS VERY SAD.
Reminds me a lot of the level generation used for Stone Soup: Dungeon Crawl. You should look into that, if you haven't heard about it yet.
In short, like many roguelikes, it uses a blend of procedural & random level generation combined with 'vaults' of entirely pre-made dungeon.
There's a lot of variation in the procedural levels, but even those tend to have a 'theme' in how they turn out depending on where in the dungeon they are made. The orcish mine's procedural levels are a spaghetti-like warren of tight corridors and occasional wide-roomed pockets. The Lair is an underground jungle with clumps of trees that unpredictably alternate between chokepoint-dense strands and massive clearings, with ponds and rivers scattered throughout. The Shoals are a chain of islands of indeterminate size -- the tide's coming & going revealing the landbridges and sandbars that connect them. And that's not even half of the dungeon's themes...
Gameplay wise, there's a lot of good design analysis to take away from the game, too. Stone Soup does a lot of things differently from most roguelikes. Like its emphasis that the game and all its features should be entirely beatable without looking up webguides (Remember how you learned 'elbereth', anyone?), automation for trivial / tedious activity, etc. Probably my favorite thing that the game does is randomize the appearance of scrolls and potions in each new game. This means that you -- as a player -- have to learn which color & viscosity the healing potions are alongside each of your characters. (The game is also merciful enough to auto-inscribe your potions with things that your character has noticed, such as "potion drunk by monster", and auto-inscribes the actual names of potions / scrolls / wands once you confirmed their identities by using them appropriately)
Please make a video on spelunky 2!!
Спасибо за русские субтитры!
My favourite and most played game out of all the games. I do wonder if anything will ever top it, for me.
If anybody is interested in watching videos of Spelunky, I recommend Tom Francis' Let's Plays, where he takes on the daily challenge. No longer updated, sadly, but there's a wealth of very funny stuff to see.
to this day ,even after spelunky two, I am in fascination of how much of a good game spelunky HD is
i love everything in Spelunky except the Ghost.
i'm generally quite the opposite of a 'rushing' or 'speedrunning' Player, so i end up encountering it basically 100% of the time.
i want to see the sights, and do the things. i don't need that to be there to force me to play the game, i'm already doing that.
i know what it's there for, but trying to use my resources to get as many of the goodies while getting to the exit just seems natural to me, rather than avoiding most of them.
I rarely spend so long in a level that the ghost comes without me wanting to, unless I'm doing a score run. IMO, the ghost makes the game better, as it forces you to prioritise tasks if you can't get them all done before the 2:30 mark. I just wish there were a way to make it come sooner when you want to, so I don't have to spend a minute waiting for the ghost to come just so I can ghost a vault.
The Ghost actually rewards players who wait and know how to play around it. If you can avoid getting touched it'll turn gems it touches into more valuable diamonds.
The only way I got my score to a million was by ghosting a lot and making it to hell
The randomly generated game I have the most experience with is Dark Cloud. Every floor of every level is randomly generated upon every entry, and I feel it is rather poorly done. There will be long empty corridors far away from what would generally be considered the main path that lead to a dead end room with only 1 enemy or item, enemies often get placed in these cramped corridors where it's really hard to fight them (which as far as I can tell is an inevitable consequence of the randomness and not a deliberate feature), character-specific barrier will get placed right next to each other, requiring you to switch characters in rapid succession (which again is not a deliberate feature but rather an unintended consequence of the randomness), and there's a few too many long tedious treks back to the exit point once you get the key and/or kill the last enemy because the layouts are abysmal and non-looping. And the randomly generated items and weapons make it very difficult to fulfill the game's primary mechanic- which is to level up your weapons and evolve them into their stronger forms. The weapon mechanics are poorly explained in the game, so it's very easy to not know what you're doing and permanently ruin the stats of a low-spawn rate weapon and waste precious items. And if you do know what you're doing, you'll just be frustrated that the game is so stingy about giving you the items you need. I think the game might know this, which is why I often found myself getting more weapons than I had the capacity to hold if I've been neglecting trips to the storage unit, but that seems to suggest the game wants me to grind all those weapons until they can be converted into synth spheres, and grinding isn't fun. Being denied the exact items you know you need to minimize grinding isn't fun either. The game is basically rife with questionable if not outright bad design decisions. How it's a greatest hits PS2 game is puzzling to me, I consider it a prime example of a game to show an aspiring game designer or otherwise design-minded player just because there's so many intuitively bad design choices to pick up on, features that are obviously "they shouldn't have done that" or "this needed expansion and/or tweaking". The game isn't good as is. I haven't played its sequel, but I hope they learned their lessons.
Guy Spelunky: Actively saves the same girl (or guy) damsel repeatedly throughout spelunky 1.
Gets with a different spelunker in spelunky 2.
Like, props bro, she made king yama into an eggplant.
Procedurally generated levels are perhaps the most impressive part of one of my favorite games in recent years, Deep Rock Galactic. The game has multiple different biomes, all of which have different rules for the procedural generation of terrain, so that elements are familiar and distinctive, but never the same. Long tunnels and giant caverns in Sandblasted Corridors, multi-tiered vertical chambers in Dense Biozone, cluttered rooms full of strange crystal shapes in Crystalline Caverns, and so on through the many different environments. These distinctive features make the different biomes more than just a cosmetic skin over the mission, but force you to use each character's unique traversal tool in particular ways. Combine this with the fact that most mission types also have rules for terrain generation (mining missions are mostly linear, point extraction revolves around a central hub chamber, etc) and you get an interesting mixture of new and familiar, so that you can never know exactly what's coming next, but nothing is every so outlandish or unexpected as to be impossible.
Still playing Spelunky HD in 2019. My favorite game genres are rogue-likes and rogue-lites, but the only other game that even comes close to Spelunky for enjoyment is Streets of Rogue, which you have already done a video on I believe.
$10 goes a long way these days.
Are you vvvortic?
Spelunky sins committed by player in background
1. Grabbed gold statue despite shop keep present
2. Approached Anubis from above and gets bodied hard
3. Attacks shopkeeper without weapon.
4. Didn't ghost gems (jk thats next level stuff he good)
5. Too reckless in Temple. Almost shot by arrow trap and whomp.
Question, if this is what makes spelunky unique and fun to play, then why people hate on No Man's Sky so much?
i haven't played both games, but from what i see is that both games have similar traits when generating a level (random generation on pre-made levels)
Would you mind doing a video like this one on The Binding of Isaac? In that game, the floors aren't on a 4 by 4 grid design, and the rooms aren't all squares. i imagine it works similarly, but i would like to know more about how its level generation works. Especially how it guarantees that there is always one item room, shop, cursed room, etc. on each floor.
It's pretty similar to Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall dungeon generation, Daggerfall had the issue that the hand-crafted "chunks" did not always come together well, but at the end of the day it was always possible to find a quest objective if you had necessary skills or spells and a lot of patience to transverse them.
I have replaced all the music files in Spelunky with new, high quality game sound tracks. You can find the file here if interested. Just replace the music folder and enjoy! www.filehosting.org/file/details/760396/Matthew%20King
The design certainly worked.
I mean I have played this game over 5000 times, not even joking it says I have had like 5000 runs, 98.7% of the time the run ended with my death.
I'm trying out a new type of "random + authored" comment.
Its simple. I just author some of the post, and then the rest of it i just about it so I could fit it and when I look back at the expense I can do it alllll and then you pay me for things like that and other wanky shit in my own house.
Perfecto balencio! 😗👌
I've had a few issues with the map gen and enemy placement from time to time, nothing is perfect obviously.
That being said, because each one is softly random I find myself getting bored with the game because it isn't focused on level design but tries to be and in return gets designs where you may need a bomb or rope to get something or in rare cases even complete a level.
I'm not going to say it is a bad game, but I do feel it hit the balance between authored and random where each stage felt more generic and without a quick scenery change would probably kill the game. The vast differences between each area, with the final being a mixture of everything.
In my personal experience I don't have high praises for it, but it isn't bad imo either.