GoGo, you mentioned the guy's bike had a wrecked steering damper. Do you have any speculation why the steering damper let the slapper get that far out of hand? Crappy steering damper? Didn't have the damping set high enough?
Hey mate how you goin? I'm the guy GoGo is talking about. It all happened pretty quick. Eric's diagnosis is absolutely on point to what I think happened to me. I was powering hard with the front sort of bordering on hovering just the slightest bit skewed. When the front gained more contact it had so much leverage over the whole front end, the steering damper and mounting plate may as well have been made of snot. It did nothing. Everybody who reads this, do yourself and your family a solid. Get some links, a Super clamp and some super stops. DO NOT buy the Power Parts Triples! If you're not on perfect smooth roads you may quickly find out how flexible they are trail braking hard into bumpy downhill bends or worse, how much more flexi head shake they allow during maximum burn even in a straight line. Be advised I am no novice, I have been a pretty loose unit on Motorbikes since the air cooled two stroke days on and off road. As I sit on my front porch still in a shitload of pain typing this on my phone I am wishing I had found Eric's links Superclamp two weeks earlier and spent the couple of grand AUD ... As it stands now, I wasted a grand on the Power Parts Triples, and am looking at 20+ grand in parts or another bike to fix mine not to mention the fact that I will be the better part of a year before my left arm and knees are in any condition to ride. Eric has pics of the indentations the forks left in the frame at the steering head and the broken damper mount/ steering stopper, and more... I have no part in Eric's business. I want to convince other KTM addicted Hooligans like myself and probably most of you, to lessen your risk and still do what you want to do. If anything I say or any of the pictures help save one other person from the same thing that happened to me, it's worth it.
@@kramdrallim I'm very sorry to hear about your continued pain. I hope things will improve. Yes, I saw GoGo's video where he tested the Powerparts clamp and the amount of flex was disturbing. I had been considering buying it but changed my mind after seeing that. I did buy and install a Superclamp along with a Sportlink. I love them. I have some Superstops that arrived yesterday that I will install this weekend. Thank you for sharing your experience. You will definitely save someone from having to go through the same thing.
Eric, top notch advice and expertise. You are not trying to sell accessories you are creating real world necessities from real world experience from those who bleed orange the Duke nation. I just bought a set. This along with the +10 sport link I purchased from you will give me a better price of mind. Next will be the super clamps !! Keep up the good work with the R & D.
If you feel up for it, there are some springs available at KTech that are the same dimensions and will work. I swapped out the 85N/mm on my EVO for a 105N/mm. It's been working fine for me and is much better suited for my weight.
The rubber bumpstops are not that crude of solution. I'm using wheel balancing led strips on the original stops - have to be replaced after each good whack yes, limiting angle also yes, but there's at least some squish to dampen the blow. Either way this is an interesting topic, and you're right - why don't we see violent shakers on the racetrack 🤔👌
lI dropped my rear on my ZX4RR about an inch. I also installed a steering dampener. I'm considering going with a -1+2 520 gear and chain kit. From what I understand that will help prevent any issues with tank slappers. I'm only 150 lbs. I might increase dampening on the rear too.
Eric, thanks for another insightfull video and nice product. Received my 15 mm sportlink a few days ago. Gonna put it on in the comming week. About the video; Is changing of the steeringdamper oil something that could possibly mitigate this problem? As i understand the stock steeringdamper is a little to soft. Greetz, Aldo
Much thanks, GoGo. The info you present is exhaustive and thorough-it truly reminds me of Keith Code’s venerable “Twist Of The Wrist” series of books. Damn good stuff 🤙
Really great content! Just bought some of your Superstops and wanted to know if we're supposed to do anything with the OEM steering stops when we install the Superstops?
I was doing 55 on a 2015 Triumph bonneville on my way to work. A car in front of me hit a deer and spun it horizontal in front of me. I jumped the deer right across it's stomach. This is the first time I experienced a tank slapper. I thought it was my time to die. I just hung on as best as I could. I know I wanted to slow down. I hit the rear brake and it started coming around on the left side. I instantly got off of it. I road it with that violent slapping for a little bit, so I hit the rear brake again and the rear end started to come around on the right side. I got off the brakes again. I figured out that that strategy wasn't going to work. All I could do was ride it out. I knew better then to hit the front brake. Well eventually my bike slowed down enough so I regained stability. I found myself on the shoulder of the road, riding along side of a guard rail. I gained all of my control and just accelerated back on the black top. I road on to work with no problems. No damage at all to the bike. This was the closes to death that I have ever been after riding for 50 years.
Great video GoGo! When you asked when was the last time you saw a race bike go into a crazy tank slapper, I thought "last time I saw a Harley race... ahhhh riiigghhht" 😊 With reference to the Superstops, I thought you were going to say that they are made out of D30 armour material....so they deflect and act a bit like a steering damper at slow bar oscillations/normal steering, but harden up if hit by tankslapping forks. Be interesting to know what you think about that!
Very well explained topic, but I would like to add 99% of these tank slapper videos we see online are rider error and maintenance neglect. I've ridden dozens of streetbikes, everything from GSXR 1000 to little Z300 to Africa twins, KTM 890 Dukes every style of bike you can imagine, save for cruisers, i really am not interested in cruisers, and I've never once had an issue with tank slappers. Some bikes were not very stable, the Z300 liked to weave at anything above 60mph on the stock tyres, some bikes were rock solid and almost impossible to turn, yet never had a tank slapper more than a single back and forth oscillation, even on bikes with no steering dampers, on our crap british roads riddled with potholes, by simply removing weight from the handlebars 99% of well maintained bikes will right themselves instantly, even from horribly sideways wheelies.
Just ordered a set 👍 I did want to ask where you’d recommend to find a sbk seat/tail for the gen 1&2 SDR. I’ve been having issues finding any sort of race fairings besides the headlight replacement plate
How do I stop the shake if I can’t raise the seat height any higher due to short inside leg? My forks have already been dropped through the clamps quite a bit. Thanks. Great video!
Jason, first thing is fork height. This is why I make the Superclamp. Because adjusting the front to help the rear, or rear to help the front, is not always the best way. Case in point, you are right to want to reduce your trail, but doing so by lowering your nose with fork height ALSO simultaneously flattens your swingarm angle - which makes the head shaking situation worse not better. What you could do to improve your anti-squat is change your gearing and chain length so that your axle is still up around 12 o'clock in the eccentric, so the bike is low as possible, but install a bigger rear sprocket. The bigger your rear sprocket is, the more antisquat you will have. Antisquat helps keep your nose planted on drives and hard acceleration.
@superduked33 Sir Go2, I have a brand new gen3 evo 1290r and I'm changing gearing like you said, I bought a 114 chain link and 41t rear only, is this better? Or even better if ill put 16t front ,41t rear with 114 chain link? Thank you so much sir go2 as I love the torque and want to learn small wheelie sometimes
Issue is the front wheel hovering. Out of corner or over crests its mostly incorrect sag and on a fast straight it's too slow rebound that caused all shakes (no steering damper installed). Also too slow compression will add to it.
I lowered the height at the back only 5mm . And suddenly headshaking like crazy. 5mm higher nearly nothing happens 😅 . But i like the orange bull a lot. I would like to purchase your sportlinks but im a bit curious because im from germany. The customs would be expensive
@superduked33 same thing happened to me when i crashed at the track back in oct. The mount for the damper cracked but didnt come off completely. I was unconscious so i dont remember why i crashed 😢
You are going in the right direction, but you are missing the point that the trail has. Why do we have trail and what is the purpose of the trail? It´s a lever. Loads act on levers. Think about what loads act on that lever and I think you´ll start to see it a little bit differently.
To much rider input has everything to do with the head shakes. Most riders don't realize that they are doing it. The duke has such an aggressive exeleration plus handlebar input is more exaggerated than clip-on. I have done this exercise at a track as soon as my head shake started to begin I just dot super light on my bars and it goes away. People tell me to change my steering damper, but that's just a Band-Aid in my opinion. I even took the damper of and same as soon I get loose one the bars the shakes go away.
@@bryansuperduke1290r just on hard acceleration but im running it in and need to get suspension set up properly I've not had chance yet never had an issue before
GoGo, you mentioned the guy's bike had a wrecked steering damper. Do you have any speculation why the steering damper let the slapper get that far out of hand? Crappy steering damper? Didn't have the damping set high enough?
Hey mate how you goin? I'm the guy GoGo is talking about. It all happened pretty quick. Eric's diagnosis is absolutely on point to what I think happened to me. I was powering hard with the front sort of bordering on hovering just the slightest bit skewed. When the front gained more contact it had so much leverage over the whole front end, the steering damper and mounting plate may as well have been made of snot. It did nothing. Everybody who reads this, do yourself and your family a solid. Get some links, a Super clamp and some super stops. DO NOT buy the Power Parts Triples! If you're not on perfect smooth roads you may quickly find out how flexible they are trail braking hard into bumpy downhill bends or worse, how much more flexi head shake they allow during maximum burn even in a straight line. Be advised I am no novice, I have been a pretty loose unit on Motorbikes since the air cooled two stroke days on and off road.
As I sit on my front porch still in a shitload of pain typing this on my phone I am wishing I had found Eric's links Superclamp two weeks earlier and spent the couple of grand AUD ... As it stands now, I wasted a grand on the Power Parts Triples, and am looking at 20+ grand in parts or another bike to fix mine not to mention the fact that I will be the better part of a year before my left arm and knees are in any condition to ride.
Eric has pics of the indentations the forks left in the frame at the steering head and the broken damper mount/ steering stopper, and more...
I have no part in Eric's business. I want to convince other KTM addicted Hooligans like myself and probably most of you, to lessen your risk and still do what you want to do. If anything I say or any of the pictures help save one other person from the same thing that happened to me, it's worth it.
Ryan, meet Kramdralim. He is our recovering brother from tank-slapper hell. His words are worth more than mine
@@kramdrallim I'm very sorry to hear about your continued pain. I hope things will improve.
Yes, I saw GoGo's video where he tested the Powerparts clamp and the amount of flex was disturbing. I had been considering buying it but changed my mind after seeing that.
I did buy and install a Superclamp along with a Sportlink. I love them. I have some Superstops that arrived yesterday that I will install this weekend. Thank you for sharing your experience. You will definitely save someone from having to go through the same thing.
@@ryand951 getting better each day. Thanx for the well wishes.
For someone who presents themselves in a very humble way. You've got more brains than 99% of the youtube motorcycle experts.
Eric, top notch advice and expertise. You are not trying to sell accessories you are creating real world necessities from real world experience from those who bleed orange the Duke nation. I just bought a set. This along with the +10 sport link I purchased from you will give me a better price of mind.
Next will be the super clamps !!
Keep up the good work with the R & D.
Thank you my brother
GoGo did it again genius. You’re now an inventor. Nice work❤❤❤
Rear preload increase made a big difference in the headshake issue on my G3. Still sorting my setup on my new SDR EVO. Thanks Eric nice work.
A spring suitable for your weight helps, though in the Evo your stuck with the 85N/mm spring.
If you feel up for it, there are some springs available at KTech that are the same dimensions and will work. I swapped out the 85N/mm on my EVO for a 105N/mm. It's been working fine for me and is much better suited for my weight.
The rubber bumpstops are not that crude of solution. I'm using wheel balancing led strips on the original stops - have to be replaced after each good whack yes, limiting angle also yes, but there's at least some squish to dampen the blow.
Either way this is an interesting topic, and you're right - why don't we see violent shakers on the racetrack 🤔👌
my 06 zx 14, has performance suspension , its very stable when it gets a little squirley
great video GoGo, guess I'll be buying these instead of the pucks for my gen1.
An amazing Topic and one well needed, thank you for all your advice.
My pleasure brother
lI dropped my rear on my ZX4RR about an inch. I also installed a steering dampener. I'm considering going with a -1+2 520 gear and chain kit. From what I understand that will help prevent any issues with tank slappers. I'm only 150 lbs. I might increase dampening on the rear too.
Eric, thanks for another insightfull video and nice product. Received my 15 mm sportlink a few days ago. Gonna put it on in the comming week. About the video; Is changing of the steeringdamper oil something that could possibly mitigate this problem? As i understand the stock steeringdamper is a little to soft.
Greetz, Aldo
Much thanks, GoGo. The info you present is exhaustive and thorough-it truly reminds me of Keith Code’s venerable “Twist Of The Wrist” series of books. Damn good stuff 🤙
Instead of rubber you could use. Something like non-Newtonian fluid. Like a speed bump of your handle bars.
Really great content! Just bought some of your Superstops and wanted to know if we're supposed to do anything with the OEM steering stops when we install the Superstops?
I was doing 55 on a 2015 Triumph bonneville on my way to work. A car in front of me hit a deer and spun it horizontal in front of me. I jumped the deer right across it's stomach. This is the first time I experienced a tank slapper. I thought it was my time to die. I just hung on as best as I could. I know I wanted to slow down. I hit the rear brake and it started coming around on the left side. I instantly got off of it. I road it with that violent slapping for a little bit, so I hit the rear brake again and the rear end started to come around on the right side. I got off the brakes again. I figured out that that strategy wasn't going to work. All I could do was ride it out. I knew better then to hit the front brake. Well eventually my bike slowed down enough so I regained stability. I found myself on the shoulder of the road, riding along side of a guard rail. I gained all of my control and just accelerated back on the black top. I road on to work with no problems. No damage at all to the bike. This was the closes to death that I have ever been after riding for 50 years.
WHAT. THE. HELL!!!!!!!
Great video GoGo! When you asked when was the last time you saw a race bike go into a crazy tank slapper, I thought "last time I saw a Harley race... ahhhh riiigghhht" 😊
With reference to the Superstops, I thought you were going to say that they are made out of D30 armour material....so they deflect and act a bit like a steering damper at slow bar oscillations/normal steering, but harden up if hit by tankslapping forks. Be interesting to know what you think about that!
great video GoGo, I'll be ordering these soon
Very well explained topic, but I would like to add 99% of these tank slapper videos we see online are rider error and maintenance neglect. I've ridden dozens of streetbikes, everything from GSXR 1000 to little Z300 to Africa twins, KTM 890 Dukes every style of bike you can imagine, save for cruisers, i really am not interested in cruisers, and I've never once had an issue with tank slappers. Some bikes were not very stable, the Z300 liked to weave at anything above 60mph on the stock tyres, some bikes were rock solid and almost impossible to turn, yet never had a tank slapper more than a single back and forth oscillation, even on bikes with no steering dampers, on our crap british roads riddled with potholes, by simply removing weight from the handlebars 99% of well maintained bikes will right themselves instantly, even from horribly sideways wheelies.
Just ordered a set 👍 I did want to ask where you’d recommend to find a sbk seat/tail for the gen 1&2 SDR. I’ve been having issues finding any sort of race fairings besides the headlight replacement plate
Great sound effects and facial distortion at 6:22. It really drives the point home 😅
Amazing video Eric
What about using thicker oil in the steering damper? Say 20w ?
That does help. I raced a full season this way.
How do I stop the shake if I can’t raise the seat height any higher due to short inside leg? My forks have already been dropped through the clamps quite a bit. Thanks. Great video!
Jason, first thing is fork height. This is why I make the Superclamp. Because adjusting the front to help the rear, or rear to help the front, is not always the best way. Case in point, you are right to want to reduce your trail, but doing so by lowering your nose with fork height ALSO simultaneously flattens your swingarm angle - which makes the head shaking situation worse not better. What you could do to improve your anti-squat is change your gearing and chain length so that your axle is still up around 12 o'clock in the eccentric, so the bike is low as possible, but install a bigger rear sprocket. The bigger your rear sprocket is, the more antisquat you will have. Antisquat helps keep your nose planted on drives and hard acceleration.
Thanks Eric. Much appreciated. Do you ship to the UK?
@superduked33 Sir Go2, I have a brand new gen3 evo 1290r and I'm changing gearing like you said, I bought a 114 chain link and 41t rear only, is this better? Or even better if ill put 16t front ,41t rear with 114 chain link? Thank you so much sir go2 as I love the torque and want to learn small wheelie sometimes
Issue is the front wheel hovering. Out of corner or over crests its mostly incorrect sag and on a fast straight it's too slow rebound that caused all shakes (no steering damper installed).
Also too slow compression will add to it.
I lowered the height at the back only 5mm . And suddenly headshaking like crazy. 5mm higher nearly nothing happens 😅 . But i like the orange bull a lot.
I would like to purchase your sportlinks but im a bit curious because im from germany. The customs would be expensive
email me off sueprduked.com KabelSalat
i need a guy like you for s1000rr setup
@superduked33 same thing happened to me when i crashed at the track back in oct. The mount for the damper cracked but didnt come off completely.
I was unconscious so i dont remember why i crashed 😢
Hey GoGo, will the steering stops work on Gen 1 and 2's?
Yes!
You are going in the right direction, but you are missing the point that the trail has. Why do we have trail and what is the purpose of the trail? It´s a lever. Loads act on levers. Think about what loads act on that lever and I think you´ll start to see it a little bit differently.
This is the real school 😊
To much rider input has everything to do with the head shakes. Most riders don't realize that they are doing it. The duke has such an aggressive exeleration plus handlebar input is more exaggerated than clip-on. I have done this exercise at a track as soon as my head shake started to begin I just dot super light on my bars and it goes away. People tell me to change my steering damper, but that's just a Band-Aid in my opinion. I even took the damper of and same as soon I get loose one the bars the shakes go away.
I'm just here for the physics.
😆🙃
My rc51 tank slapped me when landing a wheelie soft at 80 mph. Your explanation doesn't work
I think my gen3 shakes worse than my gen1 ever did
Mines not done it once in over 3 years/10,000 miles.
@@bryansuperduke1290r just on hard acceleration but im running it in and need to get suspension set up properly I've not had chance yet never had an issue before
It can happen. It sucks but there are things you can do to help. Email me off the site and we can talk about how your bike is setup. It can be better
You may need to look at your suspension set up and rear spring rate.
@@bryansuperduke1290r yeah I believe it just needs setting up I haven't touched it since I got it as like to leave it to bed in untill 1st service
It's not rocket science, just science used in space...
I think I love that and will be borrowing it repeatedly
"promo sm"