This is hands down, the absolute best motorcycle channel on the internet. I've come to expect consistent, top-notch content; yet you always blow expectations out of the water. Thanks for all the effort you put into making the roads safer, and the riders smarter.
In every video of his I watch all of his comments are nothing but absolutely positive and talking about how well done his videos are. Its so cool to see someone consistently put out content thats always just next level and that so many people appreciate.
"Like 3 homophobic men, your motorcycle is 550 lbs of pure desire to be straight." That was not a line I was expecting to hear but I'm so fucking glad I did.
That was such a well-scripted line, I genuinely paused the video to see who was discussing it in the comments 😂 Looks like it's also rather underrated.
Why does everyone have to accept people who make their whole identity about their sexual desires!? Why can't gay people just act like straight people and keep their sexual business to themselves!? Why do I have to approve of someone else's sexual desires when it's against my religious beleifs? Why don't my rights matter? Why do my rights have to be trampled for any group to have extra privelege over me? Just leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. Beleive what you want and ill beleive what I want. Im not trying to force gays to accept my identity so why are they trying to force me to accept theirs? Not only accept but affirm!! Im not affirming anything that is against my Catholic faith and is a sin! I'm not perfect but I strive to be. Stop trying to force me to denigrate my own values and religious identity to support your sexual identity. It has nothing to do with hate or homophobia.
@@CantTreadOnMe So other people have to act differently to who they are in order to fit into your narrow-minded worldview? Live and let live man. If you don't like someone, just turn around and walk the other way.
wow id love to ride one , being mostly an off road guy in the past ive intentionally stuck with manually adjusted suspension but maybe im missing out ?
Eh, another MS rider and I would be just as happy without it. Only a few times its ever felt like it was doing really well and the rest of time just soso. I would just as soon have a standard set of forks and shock that are tuned well. Eliminate all that electronic involvement and expense. I should have bought the base model...
Im in the fourth semester as a mechanical engineer student on uni and we had a lecture on linear vibrations course about skyhook on monday this week and how it works. Its good to see it from more source. Thanks.
Interesting stuff, good video.. I’ve only ever had 1 tank slapper in 33 years of riding, and it’s indelibly printed in my mind! It was under hard acceleration on my ZXR 750 on a patched/bumpy part of the road. The bar oscillation went from lock to lock.. I was genuinely a passenger! Luckily, got it under control and didn’t crash. I had to stop at the side of the road though - to get myself together 😲
Happened to me about 40 years ago on a Honda cbr400, going downhill at about 70mph. I'll never forget that experience. Nothing to do with suspension, more to do with wheel balancing.
Happened to me on an 09’ 1100 Hyper Motard, scared the dogshit out of me, I snatched it up into a wheelie and straightened the bars. I had to take a break until my knees stopped knocking, man what an F’d up ride that was. Be safe fellas ✌️
@@jamespegg6418 same time span on a KZ550 Kawasaki. I tried to accelerate out of it. LOL,Nope.Just held on tight and slowed down.Wound up selling that bike pretty quick.
I realize you'll never see this, but you're a script genius. It's the main reason I come back. Your content is superbly edited and has gotten (a LOT) better over time. Now I look forward to seeing everything new. Thanks Ryan. Happy 2022 season from Maine US. Tank slapper has only happened to me one time in my life. I was in Florida on a V-Four Honda VF750F Interceptor. I was going over an overpass and exactly as stated in the video, the front wheel came up. As it planted down again, I was on the downhill and totally unloaded the rear end. It slapped 4 times back and forth then somehow stopped on it's own. I rode 500 feet or so to the gas station where I spent a few minutes thanking all the deities. I had the cheapest tires a 90's young adult could afford, which in hindsight may have saved me the trip to the asphalt.
The "Honda" part of the phrase "V-Four Honda" is likely what saved you. Not that nobody has ever died on a Honda (of course they have), but Honda itself has always had a very strong focus on rider safety and reliable mechanical design - they stake their honor on their bikes because it was what they made for many, many decades before bothering with the car business. The fact that the bike recovered itself so quickly is a testament to their engineering. Meanwhile, you have stuff like the Harley Death Wobble, which comes out of nowhere for seemingly no reason whatsoever (bike moving in a perfectly straight line on a flat freeway), and is difficult to safely recover unless you are at low speed and lucky. I've read that it has something to do with the "rubber mount" design they use to save a few bucks in parts cost and manufacturing, and the only way to eliminate it is with aftermarket parts.
@@martuuk8964 The death wobble is caused by harmonics. It's stupid, but on some road surfaces the slow low end heavy a** cruising long bore v-twin's rocking will line up with the road surface's bumps. And like an extra kid jumping to super bounce another on a trampoline the extra shock at the right time sends the bike's engine off kilter at an unwanted angle into an uncontrollable lift. Thing is, there's no way to know. Engine speed is variable, and the speed the bike is going at to hit the bumps is also variable. It's one of those, "When the planets align the beast shall be summoned forth to lay waste to yon Harley.". And yeah, dampen the engine mount and it mostly gets rid of the problem. Not completely. It's just a basic design flaw of Harley. To get that distinctive Harley sound the engines are slightly unbalanced. No way around it if a customer wants a Harley to sound like a Harley. That sound is a holdover from before precision engineering engines and modern build tolerances. It's why even other cruisers that borrow the Harley aesthetic don't sound like a Harley. German and Japanese engineers won't let anything out the door that's designed unbalanced, they can't even conceive of doing so.
Ryan, you sir are truly a master of education. I have been riding my Multistrada 1200S for 5 years and only now do I fully understand the suspension (Skyhook) and why it is semi. To be honest I never tried to work it out, just accepted that it works.
@@MozzaBurger88 Both were. But I didn't get the Hitler joke about fully active suspension. Unless that was a joke about the anacronym being too close to fascism.
I don't have motorcycle and I don't ever plan on owning one. I seriously don't have the slightest inclination, yet I love watching this channel. Been watching for like two years, just thought I'd drop in and say hello.
Thanks Ryan. This would have to be a subject of discussion dating back well over 30 years when we first started seeing proper adjustable suspension. As an ex Australian Superbike racer, call it learning all you have mentioned the hard way by racing (at first) bikes with only preload at the rear and not changing the front fork oils with quicker intervals. See you didn’t cover, what 99.9999% of rider actually know is the front fork oils don’t last anywhere near as long as the service manuals suggest. One other part that was failed to be mentioned is the steering damper. If a bike has all the required adjustability, and set correctly for a riders weight, conditions etc.. then theses aren’t required. However, as most riders don’t have a clue as to set up their ride to perfection then these are then just an additional safety aid to slow down and stop the tank slappers. Ultimately the bike does want to go in a straight line, so just relax, don’t fight them, and the bike will sort itself out. When I earlier referred to learning the hard way was when I tried to physically recover one at 250 kph around my home track being Phillip Island and ended up separated from the bike. My fault, not the bikes. As my team manager politely pointed out after I returned via seeing the track doctor. 👍😎🇦🇺
That's not correct. There can always be conditions that will result in a tank slapper no matter what other settings you have. It is built into the geometry of the front steering and the shape and dynamics of the tire. All you need is for the front to get light over an irregularity in the road and that will set it off. A damper, which they all now have stops a small initial deviation from amplifying. Suzuki thought they could get away without one on the new 96 GSXR 750. It did make for quicker steering, except for the tank slappers. I know from experience. I fitted an after market Ohlin's steering damper mounted on the frame with a bracket Steve Martin gave me. From his superbike which needed a damper too. To much damping is bad but you need some and no amount of other setting can fix that. There is an inherent stability problem in all castoring wheels. Which is why supermarket trolley wheels do what they do. Did you have damper at Phillip Island?
My 1984 GPZ900R/ Ninja 900R has some skinny forks but it had an ADV system which is a gas charged system to supplement the front springs. Haven't experienced a tank slapper on this bike (provided the system is maintained) and I've tried after doing constant wheelies and going off mounds at railroad crossings.
@@marcusgeorge1825 It's not a typo issue. This term is misspoken over and over when it comes to suspension and it drives me nuts. If you (proverbial) are going to speak with authority about something, get the language right. And I do use and adjust the dampers and spring rate on my bikes, both motor and pedal. As for wet rags, sometimes I use them to cool off on a hot day or if I'm not feeling well. :D
As someone designing FSAE suspension, one thing i realised very quickly, is there IS a theoretical perfect solution, and that's continuous adjustment in real time, if that's unfeasible, there is simply no perfect setup and that's just it. So as long as you're in the ballpark, it's good enough, simple as that. From there tuning the suspension to personal preferences is the only thing to be done and you're as near perfect as it's physically possible without electronics.
@@PartikleVT Yes but as mentioned in the video CDC or otherwise also known as DDC has limitations. It's very good indeed, and easy in concept to implement, but in practice a lot of man hours go behind designing a reliable system that stays accurate even after hundreds of millions of adjustments. The programming is also difficult behind it as it's making a lot of adjustments, how can it tell the difference between a wheelie on a downwards slope vs the road suddenly dipping out from under the wheel such as riding off a ledge? It can't. To be honest in such a scenario it doesn't matter that it doesn't know because the damping will need to be softened on initial impact and then hardened once the wheels land but there are a few scenarios where it can "trip out". And then accurate BMS units are just expensive, again that have to stay reliable and accurate for a long time. The type BMW uses can register lean angles to 2 decimal points 100 times a second. Don't get me wrong they are entirely feasible to implement, but as we can see, there is a reason the bikes that have them START at 15k (with a few rare exceptions) and most near the lower end actually have very cheap forks with DDC picking up the slack in terms of ride quality. A true high end electronic suspension unit like the Öhlins Semi actives cost 3-4 grand for a reason. Trust me, they aren't making big margins on those systems.
@@AntaresSQ01 Hi, I have actually designed and patented (US9561701) an active electromechanical suspension that will use the suspension travel to charge the battery. It is even lighter than a standard suspension. I installed a prototype on my motorcycle several years ago and made a video. I have not been able to update the prototype for a while, because I am trying to manufacture an EV (scooter) that uses my other 2 patents, but if you are interested then let me know. ruclips.net/video/7J9_Zq-C0d8/видео.html
8 years with a Kawasaki 250 Ninja. Never had a tank slapper. But seen them, and taught about them at PRS. Then it was stolen. Until I get a new home, I'm not getting another motorcycle. This is why spring is hell for me. Ryan provides me content that's the next best thing.
@@leftcoaster67 250 is a great class for reliability. Good fuel economy, not so much power that they can break stuff (if they are decent quality), nothing too crazy to work on like synchronizing 4 carburetors, engine inspection and maintenance is similar to that of a lawn mower (and its very open and easy to get to compared to crammed in 4 cylinder engines), and of course takes like 1 qt of oil and everything super easy to maintain. Often even air cooled so no coolants to flush, just oil and that's it! My 250 Chinese Honda clone was pretty good, its biggest weakness was a weak frame (and one crazy 14 year old that would sometimes clutchless slam through gears WOT down the highway, but hey, I was that 14 year old so I can't complain too much, haha!). Made new engine frame mounts out of heavy sheet metal, and reliable as could be. I still got 90 mpg driving WOT doing 65 mph on gravel and pinned whatever speed it would do on highways. It even did 109 mpg with 2 people riding when my dad drove it, so not bad, and other than changing tires pretty often didn't have to do too much. Also changed sprockets for higher speeds (duel sport enduro, so they probably didn't plan for it to do 75-80 mph), did better than my skill level off-road too. I would be driving that right now but its parked halfway across the country, and if I spend 2 or 3 days non-stop driving it to me, well I'd make enough to pay for almost half of another one (and I'll probably move back close to it anyways and have to drive it back again). Otherwise not bad, very lacking for passing on highways and weak going into 50 mph headwinds, but other than that it was a fun reliable bike.
@@kawininji8874 Go get a shop to sort out your suspension settings if you're struggling to find the right ones yourself. A new supersport should not have tank slappers when set up right. Even my decade+ old second hand R6 can go full out without issue.
Always make sure to adjust your rear preload when riding with a passenger or with heavyish luggage. A few months ago I took a pillion for the first time ever. Only rode for maybe 10 minutes without adjusted rear suspension (I can only adjust preload on my 2012 V-Strom 650) and without adjusted tire pressure. It felt very wobbly and I was not confident at all. A few days later we rode again, but this time with properly inflated rear tire and preload set to maximum. Oh wow, what a difference! It almost felt as riding alone; even the tight u-turns were no problem. Now that I think about it, in hindsight the steering felt very light, I mean it felt like there was not much load on the front tire. I didn't experience any wobbly feeling, but I suspect I might have if I had been really aggressive with the throttle. So next time I think I'll adjust the front preload as well in order to shift the center of mass a bit forward. By the way, if you ride very aggressively (very fast acceleration) you might want to look into an aftermarket steering damper.
Accelerating hard enough to cause the front tire to just skim the road surface can also induce a slapper, when those little stones and cracks in the road surface begin knocking that front tire off alignment with the direction of acceleration, and a lack of weight allowing the front wheel to pivot.
Truly adore this channel's educational voice; humorous, accessible, and helpful. Thanks for so much great teaching. It's helped me grasp so many concepts as well as feel much more empowered about motorcycle ownership. Really impressed. Thank u.
Even going back as recent as 8 months and you can see how much the video quality increased recently, and this is still brilliant, it just all got, brillianter
Yes, I would engage the perfect suspension.....if available. Actually I do so each time when I start my car. That thing (Citroen C5) does have the system that matches your Skyhook idea. For the interested: The Citroen C5 has an active, hydro-pneumatic, suspension that controls every wheel individually. Sadly, it never got introduced to motorcycling. The system is incredibly brilliant! Even the ride height is adjustable... It would be great on my V-strom.
It doesn't change damping in way ryan describe here. Also drive c5 with hydro. Its cool system but far from mentioned here. It just can engage sport, harder setting depending on driver inputs.
I remember my first tank slapper, scary as hell. I was getting off of I4 doing about 120 mph during Bike Week in Daytona. I hit some small bump in the road and I thought I was going down. I managed to keep it upright, but it was a dern moment for sure!
Yah, highway construction, going on for miles on 295, they didn't really cone up or warn anyone they were doing some pavement work in one area. I hit it and went airborne at about 85 mph on crappy uneven road, then the wobbles come in. Luckily it all sorted itself out in about a second or so, though it seemed like an eternity. My butthole was so tight I bet you couldn't have pulled a banjo string thru with a bulldozer when that finally ended. I just vaguely remember saying to myself, don't lose the handlebars but don't fight them, off the throttle, let it settle out. Thankifully it heard my prayers. Don't want to go thru that again.
Boy this is one of the densest compilation of knowledege in any knowledge field. There is stuff in here for a year of learning in about 7 Minutes or even less. Congratulations on this marvelous video. I'm not much of a biker any more, too old, but I wish I had taken the time to learn this when I was younger. Kudos
Just got done watching a bunch of tank slapper vids and wanted to know the why behind it. Thank you so much for you video! I now know the why behind it. I hope those guys figured it out and got there bikes suspension dialed in. Very scary thing to happen!
It’s crazy to think that a RUclips channel influenced me to get into riding!!! I appreciate this channel so much and I hope it continues to be my number one source until the end of my days. Plus I hope you guys do a video in the Yukon so you can really test off-road adventuring.
Yes, experiencing a tank slapper was a part of learning to ride in the 1970s especially on twin shocked 750 plus bikes. Scary? well yes and if you survived, you bought better suspended/ true wheeled motorcycles. Else the funeral parlour did great business! Glad I survived. Thanks Ryan for explaining what went wrong when I was young. Ride Kymco AK550 auto motorcycle with Arrow pipe now I'm mature Aged pensioner. LOL
For purely processional commuters, you probably would want unflappable suspension. But for passion riding? You're clipping the wings of the visceral experience we signed up to risk our lives for. Great video
Excellent explanation and entertaining as always. The dentist on the GS got me, as well as the 25k and F@ck off, 😂😂😂 The $1500 I "forked" over on suspension upgrades and tuning were definitely the best money I have ever spent on farkles.
This channel is a treasure trove of information I did not know I needed and now cannot live without. With each new episode comes anticipation, enjoyment and education. Well done, F9! Bravo!
Other, more common causes of tank slappers include: 1/ Too much luggage weight behind the rear axle making the front and light. Watch out for luggage racks that protrude out back. 2/ Weight transfer off the front wheel caused by the drag induced by flat fronted touring screens.
Rarely comment on anything online, however, this guy and his team are The Benchmark for their diligence and attention to detail. Motorcycle press....this your competition.
Always check the manufacturers manual on how to adjust and/or service the suspension on your bikes, they're all different. Thank you for your uploading this.
Thanks Ryan, I've just had the suspension on my zx14 professionally adjusted after 5 years of leaving it how the shop originally set it up. This video made it all a lot easier to understand.
Absolutely love this channel and I'm always really excited whenever I get an alert of a new video. Ryan's knowledge seems to know no bounds, so I was surprised to see him get it backwards at 2:15 - the top part of the spring he is holding is the softest, stiffest is at the bottom.
the soft section of spring is what is causing the section with a wider gap to act in a progressive manner by preventing it from twisting and creating a shorter functional wire, increasing spring rate. this makes it the stiffest at the section closest to where the "soft" coils are. the short twists are not really a part of the spring, as far as springing functionality goes, more an accessory to the spring that using funky fysics to trick it into behaving nonlinearly. kind of like preloading negative twist onto the wire so when it is compressed, the section closer to the tight coils will not want to twist as much
Chalk board diagram shows advised position for installation, does it really matter? The spring reacts as a single unit, invert the fork assembly the spring still reacts the same.
I don't think it matters. The soft part of the spring will compress the most at first no matter if it is at the top or the bottom. All forces are linear.
This guy somehow finds such perfect examples of the principles he's teaching. 4:35 you can see *exactly* what he was just explaining so clearly. Amazing
I'm late to this party (just found FortNine a week or so ago). I really enjoy your explanations, vibe, friendly & disarming approach, and low-to-no sales tactics. You've got another fan!
Good suspension setup can really work wonders! Dave Moss has great videos on this topic on RUclips. My old Hypermotard had the tendency for speedwobbles, especially with much wind or bad roads. I took some time to really adjust the suspension and this problem was gone.
Consistently among the best videos/channels on all of RUclips, on any subject. All aspects are top notch, research, writing, camera, sound, infographics, presentation, music, etc. All finely tuned, ahem. Thank you.
Progressive springs, the right density oil, proper preload and tire pressure/wheel balancing, and not slamming your wheelies like a squid out of water are generally enough to protect you from ever having wobbles lol. A steering dampener is probably your best insurance though. Usually a tank slapper is a result of all of these failing, not just one, so it's good to protect yourself as much as you can with good maintenance. Overloading your bike can cause them too. Having wind resistance high above the center of gravity and a lot of weight at or behind the rear wheel is a great way to lighten the front end enough to cause some spooky moments. The skyhook thing is very interesting. Fully automatic suspension sounds great! Great video, as always.
fortnine.ca bien sûr. They're Nelson Rigg Adventure Dry bags, although mine are quite old. The new ones look like this: fortnine.ca/en/nelson-rigg-deluxe-adventure-motorcycle-dry-saddlebags - great bags!
May not see this... But thank you... I'm still learning on my own... Physically... But you have been a huge part of my awareness, patience, staying grounded. Ty
In motocross this was called headshake, if it ever happened to me I would counter it by hitting the rear break. And yes I set up the suspension properly.
I have had bikes for many many years and never really thought much about the suspension. I just had my xt660x suspension set up with Hyperpro progressive springs front and rear. Goodness me IT FEELS LIKE A DIFFERENT BIKE! Truly an amazing improvement and the best 600 UKP I ever spent on a bike for sure! Keep up the great work please! Simon
I didn't know the rear shock was affected by the angle changes. A fun fact is that on a variable spring it does not matter which way around they are placed. The weakest part will always compress first which makes perfect sense but a lot of people think you need to put them a certain way.
You could affect the amount of unsprung weight. If most of the spring has to move towards the end that compresses first it would act as unsprung weight. But to be fair, the amount of weight in the spring versus the wheel, brakes and lower fork is pretty much negligible.
After thinking about it some more there's also the effect of "waves" through the spring. Basically it takes a little time for the force to travel through the spring, and for the entire spring to equalize. The wave would travel faster through the stiffer part of the spring. ruclips.net/video/10-QGhm5hgc/видео.html Sorry for babbling, not at all meant as coming at you, it was just interesting to think about :)
Wheels not weighted properly can also cause them, and on super sports too much weight on your wrists can also cause them as well. I'm especially conscious about this on my r6.
@@Matty_Ice9 Yes, balancing or tires with wear or new poor quality tires can increase chance of it to happen. I had those. Also totally had forgotten, but in my youth I had a pocket bike - too firm grip would make it wobbly instantly! 🤔 Crazy sensitive steering, would not like that on an bike going over 25 mph 🙃
My 2 tank slapper were due to cracks in the road. The first one was in a curve which made me continue straight. Thankfully no oncoming traffic. Second one was on a highway going highway speeds and I just let go of the steering but just barely holding on to it to let it readjust itself and also no whiskey throttle. After a tankslapper you're so happy your alive and the rush of adrenalin is so crazy.
This is a great video. I talk to a lot of people that want steering dampers to "fix" front oscillation but I always tell them they're fixing the symptom instead of the cause.
Another way to preload the front end is to lower your forks. Not a ton, obviously, but small adjustments can do some pretty amazing things. I rode an R6 for a lot of years commuting. I found the front end too light for around town so I dropped the forks 10mm to plant the tire better. Worked wonders.
When I saw the title of this video I was hoping you were going to talk about steering dampers to avoid tank slappers. But I don't think you mentioned them. Are you perhaps going to make a sequel video which does elaborate on steering dampers. I believe they're extremely important in circuit racing, be it on and off road. But for some reason they're mainly used in rally racing (like Dakar) and almost never in motocross and enduro. I don't understand why.
Man, you've got a great gift of instruction. It's truly marvelous how you can make complex concepts understandable. Please post some teaching videos. Maybe Canadian civics or the history of the French and Indian War? I also appreciate the work you put into every video- the production value and pace. Thank You.
The Bose active suspension was great - and completely ignored by everyone. You have to wonder if the extreme power requirement and mass penalties it incurred 40 years ago (plus potentially uber-unreliable 1980s electronics) would be such an issue today... When I started riding ABS was a multithousand dollar option only on top end bikes. By the end of the 80s it was a few hundred dollars on scooters and now it's standard equipment to the point that non-abs is banned in many markets
Again: Good Job, as always! I see the comment regularly that this is the best Motorcycle related content on YT but after nearly exhausting your library I am convinced you have the best "Do-It-Yourself" content on the Inter-Web! I watch everything from Auto-Centric to Xylophone Repair and Race/All Terrain/Off Road/4X4 to DIY of every topic and I do not see the consistent high quality and creative thoughtfulness of F9. Nobody, Nowhere, Knowhow. I will shut up now and start at the top. Thanks for the great Videos and for sharing your talents.
Skyhook required no springs and no damping, but there are other methods of assisted fully active suspension. There is a normal coil spring to hold the weight of the bike or car at a "nuetral" position. But when you hit a bump the EM springs kick in and force the suspension to compress or rebound the correct amount.
You just described semi active suspension. Semi active uses springs, active uses no springing, the hydraulic pump reacts to pressure sensors to perform the task of the spring.
No. In my Understanding the difference between active and semi active is, wether the controlling system can apply it’s own force into the suspension or not. CDC, as described in the video, only controls the damping coefficient and therefore can only vary the reactive force acting against the suspension movement. Active Suspension, like The Bose Version, can introduce additional force or power with electric motors or hydraulics. Therefore they require quite a bit energy. Mercedes has a Active Suspension called ABC, where they move the mounting point of a traditional steel spring with hydraulics.
@@matthiasvolk6006 Well, considering an application of force requires a pump of some sort, and not having a pump requires springs, in what way does your definition differ from what I said? Aaah! the Mercedes method of getting around an F1 ban on active suspension! I see! So, why don't you tell me why you would have a spring in an active Systemj, other than to subvent a competitor rule? Or am I just being thick? Because I remember the Lotus system in its development phase ( I was in the same class as Clive Chapman, Colin Chapman's son) and it was very, very clear to both Colin and everybody else that an active system used computer controlled hydraulic rams/pumps etc to produce active suspension. That M-B may have come up with a system that uses springs just means that their system is semi-active, and I'm sure that they would claim the same. But enough about that, why don't you tell us all how a spring works in a system that is specifically designed to not use springs?
Yes, it got bad rep for poor maintenance I guess. My dad had 3, I also had 3 and still blame myself for selling the first of those because of "small" issues and it ended up going for scrap. I never got to the bottom of this, but I think the bad rep was "it leans too much" (older ones especially, but they kept the wheels firmly planted unlike the funny swing axle cars of their time), "it's too soft" (apparently people equate a bumpy ride with sporty aspirations"), but guess what, the moose test speed record is still held by the 1998 Citroen Xantia Activa. And finally, I guess what killed 2 of my 3 Citroens is a terminal hydraulic fluid leak (the first one did too, but I had that one repaired before selling it). But they all had 250.000+ km on them, and then people forget that other cars would have had springs, shocks etc replaced multiple times already...
@@MaartenvanHeek In my family we have had/ has nine large Citroën. 4 CX, 3 Xm, one C5 and the glorius C6. Only once have I had a major hydtaulic leak, it was on an 20 year old CX and was easy to fix by the roadside.
@@Svarthammarholet in my case it was on a 20 yo XM strut return line (fixed same night), second was a Xantia under the (hot) engine block so could not be fixed roadside and had to be towed, by that time including upcoming MOT repairs it was a total loss. Third was a diravi on another XM, after having it repaired 3 times in 3 months I was done with that car, as you can imagine :)
@@MaartenvanHeek In my experience it pays of to find a meccanic that really knows and love these cars if you want to keep them alive and healthy. They are in many ways completely different from all other brands. And ahh yes the good old Diravi, best ever power-steering in the history of automobiles..
When i built myself a ''bitsa'' motorcycle, based on a Norton featherbed frame, I had a problem with the rear wheel contacting the mudguard on full depression. To cure this, I fitted longer rear suspension units. This cured the problem, but also made the steering more responsive, by changing the angle between the front forks and the road. So even a small change in rear suspension can have a significant effect on steering. .
Canada’s greatest export since maple syrup Also if someone told me to get a quart of fork oil, I would have thought they were messing with me like asking to get some blinker fluid.
You can't have damping without some sort of non compressible liquid. Designs with non serviceable damper cartridges exist but those are also prefilled with fluid from factory. Makes sense to use oil, it can double as lubricant to the moving parts as well. Fork oil is essentially hydraulic fluid specially formulated to prevent foaming under rapid movement.
RF9 Dropping more bombs than an invading military. Well done! And thank you for the great video and many laughs, we really, really appreciate it. Gratefully,Dennis
I enjoy your vids and have learned a bunch thanks!! 1988 Honda GL1500 97k miles, my tank slapper issues were due to worn front tires, steering head bearings needed minor re-torquing and loose bolts securing front forks.
You stated the essential points of suspension in a clear consice way. Keep up the good work. Ive made rally shocks worked on race teams setting up suspension and I learn something from each of your videos.
Almost 20 years of riding and never stop learning from this channel. Tanks for your work.
I don’t even own a bike, anymore … and still enjoy these videos.
I like to think "tanks" was a puntentional typo. ~RF9
"Tanks" I see what you did there
I assumed tanks was just a child that never learned spell check... Or to wipe their own as.....
As they say in the mechanized marines...
-Bob Gump
This is hands down, the absolute best motorcycle channel on the internet. I've come to expect consistent, top-notch content; yet you always blow expectations out of the water. Thanks for all the effort you put into making the roads safer, and the riders smarter.
Their three and four year old content is just as spectacular.Easily better then anything on tv today.
Motojitsu is what really makes people ride smarter and safer .
and he's really funny too lol
Mahalo
In every video of his I watch all of his comments are nothing but absolutely positive and talking about how well done his videos are. Its so cool to see someone consistently put out content thats always just next level and that so many people appreciate.
I want to give you guys props for actually caring about audio levels and compression with your show. Wish more did that.
The more quality is in the content (he has the medal there) the less nuisance music and distractions are needed.
Of course he cares about compression that’s virtually what most of the video is about - damping,spring rates and compression!
"Like 3 homophobic men, your motorcycle is 550 lbs of pure desire to be straight."
That was not a line I was expecting to hear but I'm so fucking glad I did.
a true example of how to make people feel accepted without disturbing the flow of a great video ^°^
any bike of mine are gay as hell though >:)
That was such a well-scripted line, I genuinely paused the video to see who was discussing it in the comments 😂 Looks like it's also rather underrated.
Why does everyone have to accept people who make their whole identity about their sexual desires!? Why can't gay people just act like straight people and keep their sexual business to themselves!? Why do I have to approve of someone else's sexual desires when it's against my religious beleifs? Why don't my rights matter? Why do my rights have to be trampled for any group to have extra privelege over me? Just leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. Beleive what you want and ill beleive what I want. Im not trying to force gays to accept my identity so why are they trying to force me to accept theirs? Not only accept but affirm!! Im not affirming anything that is against my Catholic faith and is a sin! I'm not perfect but I strive to be. Stop trying to force me to denigrate my own values and religious identity to support your sexual identity. It has nothing to do with hate or homophobia.
@@CantTreadOnMe Chill out dawg it's just a joke, it wasn't aimed at you...
...wait a second
@@CantTreadOnMe So other people have to act differently to who they are in order to fit into your narrow-minded worldview?
Live and let live man. If you don't like someone, just turn around and walk the other way.
Basically just explained why electronic suspension is such a big deal, in a matter that most people can understand. Great work!
Coming from a Multistrada I would have to say yes to turning on an electronic suspension….. it was truly wonderful. Great video Ryan!
Yo you got any of those jobs laying around?
@@Hoppitot lol let him go check in the back real quick
@@well_as_an_expert_id_say hell I aint doing anything dude can take 3 months as long as he finds something
wow id love to ride one , being mostly an off road guy in the past ive intentionally stuck with manually adjusted suspension but maybe im missing out ?
Eh, another MS rider and I would be just as happy without it. Only a few times its ever felt like it was doing really well and the rest of time just soso. I would just as soon have a standard set of forks and shock that are tuned well. Eliminate all that electronic involvement and expense. I should have bought the base model...
Im in the fourth semester as a mechanical engineer student on uni and we had a lecture on linear vibrations course about skyhook on monday this week and how it works. Its good to see it from more source. Thanks.
The man of culture 3:37
Where?
@@THEGEEK2001 Budapest University of Technology and Economics in Hungary.
@@benceringbauer9477 doing MEng eng too. Goodluck bro
@@THEGEEK2001 Thanks. To you as well. We’ll need it:D
As a retired engineer, I SO love your videos and detailed descriptions. Thank you 😊
Engineers just can't help telling other people that they are, in fact engineers. Even after they are retired 😄
@@SavedbyHim wasn't Ryan an engineer himself?
@@hugoflores5806 Doubt it, otherwise we'd know for sure lol
@@hugoflores5806 I partially recall that he had an undergrad in Physics. Not 100% sure tho.
Interesting stuff, good video.. I’ve only ever had 1 tank slapper in 33 years of riding, and it’s indelibly printed in my mind! It was under hard acceleration on my ZXR 750 on a patched/bumpy part of the road. The bar oscillation went from lock to lock.. I was genuinely a passenger! Luckily, got it under control and didn’t crash. I had to stop at the side of the road though - to get myself together 😲
Happened to me about 40 years ago on a Honda cbr400, going downhill at about 70mph. I'll never forget that experience. Nothing to do with suspension, more to do with wheel balancing.
Happened to me on an 09’ 1100 Hyper Motard, scared the dogshit out of me, I snatched it up into a wheelie and straightened the bars. I had to take a break until my knees stopped knocking, man what an F’d up ride that was. Be safe fellas ✌️
What level of butt pucker would you say that experience was? 🤔
@@deborahchesser7375what an insane way to save yourself lmao
@@jamespegg6418 same time span on a KZ550 Kawasaki. I tried to accelerate out of it.
LOL,Nope.Just held on tight and slowed down.Wound up selling that bike pretty quick.
I realize you'll never see this, but you're a script genius. It's the main reason I come back. Your content is superbly edited and has gotten (a LOT) better over time. Now I look forward to seeing everything new. Thanks Ryan. Happy 2022 season from Maine US.
Tank slapper has only happened to me one time in my life. I was in Florida on a V-Four Honda VF750F Interceptor. I was going over an overpass and exactly as stated in the video, the front wheel came up. As it planted down again, I was on the downhill and totally unloaded the rear end. It slapped 4 times back and forth then somehow stopped on it's own. I rode 500 feet or so to the gas station where I spent a few minutes thanking all the deities. I had the cheapest tires a 90's young adult could afford, which in hindsight may have saved me the trip to the asphalt.
The "Honda" part of the phrase "V-Four Honda" is likely what saved you. Not that nobody has ever died on a Honda (of course they have), but Honda itself has always had a very strong focus on rider safety and reliable mechanical design - they stake their honor on their bikes because it was what they made for many, many decades before bothering with the car business. The fact that the bike recovered itself so quickly is a testament to their engineering. Meanwhile, you have stuff like the Harley Death Wobble, which comes out of nowhere for seemingly no reason whatsoever (bike moving in a perfectly straight line on a flat freeway), and is difficult to safely recover unless you are at low speed and lucky. I've read that it has something to do with the "rubber mount" design they use to save a few bucks in parts cost and manufacturing, and the only way to eliminate it is with aftermarket parts.
@@martuuk8964 The death wobble is caused by harmonics. It's stupid, but on some road surfaces the slow low end heavy a** cruising long bore v-twin's rocking will line up with the road surface's bumps. And like an extra kid jumping to super bounce another on a trampoline the extra shock at the right time sends the bike's engine off kilter at an unwanted angle into an uncontrollable lift. Thing is, there's no way to know. Engine speed is variable, and the speed the bike is going at to hit the bumps is also variable. It's one of those, "When the planets align the beast shall be summoned forth to lay waste to yon Harley.". And yeah, dampen the engine mount and it mostly gets rid of the problem. Not completely. It's just a basic design flaw of Harley. To get that distinctive Harley sound the engines are slightly unbalanced. No way around it if a customer wants a Harley to sound like a Harley. That sound is a holdover from before precision engineering engines and modern build tolerances. It's why even other cruisers that borrow the Harley aesthetic don't sound like a Harley. German and Japanese engineers won't let anything out the door that's designed unbalanced, they can't even conceive of doing so.
Ryan, you sir are truly a master of education. I have been riding my Multistrada 1200S for 5 years and only now do I fully understand the suspension (Skyhook) and why it is semi.
To be honest I never tried to work it out, just accepted that it works.
@@BrevityBuzz yet Ducati and Kawasaki market it as skyhook
The only situation in which a semi is preferable
2 videos in a week? What a time to be alive
Your joke about the 3 dudes is hilarious! Great job with the satire, and informative. Your channel is 100% better than any network
that one got me as well....😂😂
And the Godfather parts
@@MozzaBurger88 Both were. But I didn't get the Hitler joke about fully active suspension.
Unless that was a joke about the anacronym being too close to fascism.
The bullet proof crop top got me in this one
@@gregorylagrange the "final solution" "Endlösung" for the Nazis was the genocide of all jews....
The no background audio approach in the technical lecture part gives me a nostalgia of the 90's educational videos, I love it
I don't have motorcycle and I don't ever plan on owning one. I seriously don't have the slightest inclination, yet I love watching this channel. Been watching for like two years, just thought I'd drop in and say hello.
Thanks Ryan. This would have to be a subject of discussion dating back well over 30 years when we first started seeing proper adjustable suspension. As an ex Australian Superbike racer, call it learning all you have mentioned the hard way by racing (at first) bikes with only preload at the rear and not changing the front fork oils with quicker intervals. See you didn’t cover, what 99.9999% of rider actually know is the front fork oils don’t last anywhere near as long as the service manuals suggest. One other part that was failed to be mentioned is the steering damper. If a bike has all the required adjustability, and set correctly for a riders weight, conditions etc.. then theses aren’t required. However, as most riders don’t have a clue as to set up their ride to perfection then these are then just an additional safety aid to slow down and stop the tank slappers. Ultimately the bike does want to go in a straight line, so just relax, don’t fight them, and the bike will sort itself out. When I earlier referred to learning the hard way was when I tried to physically recover one at 250 kph around my home track being Phillip Island and ended up separated from the bike. My fault, not the bikes. As my team manager politely pointed out after I returned via seeing the track doctor. 👍😎🇦🇺
That's not correct. There can always be conditions that will result in a tank slapper no matter what other settings you have. It is built into the geometry of the front steering and the shape and dynamics of the tire. All you need is for the front to get light over an irregularity in the road and that will set it off. A damper, which they all now have stops a small initial deviation from amplifying.
Suzuki thought they could get away without one on the new 96 GSXR 750. It did make for quicker steering, except for the tank slappers. I know from experience. I fitted an after market Ohlin's steering damper mounted on the frame with a bracket Steve Martin gave me. From his superbike which needed a damper too. To much damping is bad but you need some and no amount of other setting can fix that.
There is an inherent stability problem in all castoring wheels. Which is why supermarket trolley wheels do what they do. Did you have damper at Phillip Island?
It's a DAMPER not a dampener. We aren't putting wet rags on our necks to cool down.
@@JF-lt5zc well done. You picked up a typo, which has been corrected. Thank you. So you use one? Anything of substance to add?
My 1984 GPZ900R/ Ninja 900R has some skinny forks but it had an ADV system which is a gas charged system to supplement the front springs. Haven't experienced a tank slapper on this bike (provided the system is maintained) and I've tried after doing constant wheelies and going off mounds at railroad crossings.
@@marcusgeorge1825 It's not a typo issue. This term is misspoken over and over when it comes to suspension and it drives me nuts. If you (proverbial) are going to speak with authority about something, get the language right.
And I do use and adjust the dampers and spring rate on my bikes, both motor and pedal.
As for wet rags, sometimes I use them to cool off on a hot day or if I'm not feeling well. :D
As always, thank you Ryan F9 and team for the thought, humor, effort and wit incorporated in these videos. Well done.
The humor is so witty, these videos are totally worthwhile even for cagers!
That was a hell of a save in the opening scene
That barrier was coming fast!
Thanks
ruclips.net/video/hgKOvJRnpko/видео.html
Full video
i'm not sure if at that stage is a save anymore or just pure luck :}
@@duroxkilo definitely the leg kick at the end that saved him 🤣🤣 I think it was just luck!
I Don't Pretend To Understand All Of The Science About Motorcycle Suspension But I Love The Way You Explain It! Thank You.
Came for the education, stayed forever for Ryan's brilliant witticisms 😊
A semester of Suspension theory in 7 minutes! and YES, I would make it perfect if I could (afford it)!
As someone designing FSAE suspension, one thing i realised very quickly, is there IS a theoretical perfect solution, and that's continuous adjustment in real time, if that's unfeasible, there is simply no perfect setup and that's just it. So as long as you're in the ballpark, it's good enough, simple as that. From there tuning the suspension to personal preferences is the only thing to be done and you're as near perfect as it's physically possible without electronics.
@@AntaresSQ01 CDC sounds cheap and easy to DIY from a programmers standpoint
@@PartikleVT Yes but as mentioned in the video CDC or otherwise also known as DDC has limitations. It's very good indeed, and easy in concept to implement, but in practice a lot of man hours go behind designing a reliable system that stays accurate even after hundreds of millions of adjustments. The programming is also difficult behind it as it's making a lot of adjustments, how can it tell the difference between a wheelie on a downwards slope vs the road suddenly dipping out from under the wheel such as riding off a ledge? It can't. To be honest in such a scenario it doesn't matter that it doesn't know because the damping will need to be softened on initial impact and then hardened once the wheels land but there are a few scenarios where it can "trip out". And then accurate BMS units are just expensive, again that have to stay reliable and accurate for a long time. The type BMW uses can register lean angles to 2 decimal points 100 times a second. Don't get me wrong they are entirely feasible to implement, but as we can see, there is a reason the bikes that have them START at 15k (with a few rare exceptions) and most near the lower end actually have very cheap forks with DDC picking up the slack in terms of ride quality. A true high end electronic suspension unit like the Öhlins Semi actives cost 3-4 grand for a reason. Trust me, they aren't making big margins on those systems.
@@AntaresSQ01 I can see how the system gets larger and larger and requires more and more sensors as you start adjusting it.
@@AntaresSQ01 Hi, I have actually designed and patented (US9561701) an active electromechanical suspension that will use the suspension travel to charge the battery. It is even lighter than a standard suspension. I installed a prototype on my motorcycle several years ago and made a video. I have not been able to update the prototype for a while, because I am trying to manufacture an EV (scooter) that uses my other 2 patents, but if you are interested then let me know.
ruclips.net/video/7J9_Zq-C0d8/видео.html
8 years with a Kawasaki 250 Ninja. Never had a tank slapper. But seen them, and taught about them at PRS. Then it was stolen. Until I get a new home, I'm not getting another motorcycle. This is why spring is hell for me. Ryan provides me content that's the next best thing.
Probably weren't doing any wheelies (certainly not by accident) with a 250. So for little bikes, usually not a problem.
@@jakegarrett8109 It was certainly a reliable steed. Maybe that's why I loved it.
@@leftcoaster67 250 is a great class for reliability. Good fuel economy, not so much power that they can break stuff (if they are decent quality), nothing too crazy to work on like synchronizing 4 carburetors, engine inspection and maintenance is similar to that of a lawn mower (and its very open and easy to get to compared to crammed in 4 cylinder engines), and of course takes like 1 qt of oil and everything super easy to maintain. Often even air cooled so no coolants to flush, just oil and that's it!
My 250 Chinese Honda clone was pretty good, its biggest weakness was a weak frame (and one crazy 14 year old that would sometimes clutchless slam through gears WOT down the highway, but hey, I was that 14 year old so I can't complain too much, haha!). Made new engine frame mounts out of heavy sheet metal, and reliable as could be. I still got 90 mpg driving WOT doing 65 mph on gravel and pinned whatever speed it would do on highways. It even did 109 mpg with 2 people riding when my dad drove it, so not bad, and other than changing tires pretty often didn't have to do too much. Also changed sprockets for higher speeds (duel sport enduro, so they probably didn't plan for it to do 75-80 mph), did better than my skill level off-road too.
I would be driving that right now but its parked halfway across the country, and if I spend 2 or 3 days non-stop driving it to me, well I'd make enough to pay for almost half of another one (and I'll probably move back close to it anyways and have to drive it back again). Otherwise not bad, very lacking for passing on highways and weak going into 50 mph headwinds, but other than that it was a fun reliable bike.
Ahh so that's why when my bike is loaded the front will wobble a bit under acceleration. Amazing video Ryan!
Noticed the same thing on my new zx6r, kinda scary coming from a 300 lol
@@kawininji8874 Go get a shop to sort out your suspension settings if you're struggling to find the right ones yourself. A new supersport should not have tank slappers when set up right. Even my decade+ old second hand R6 can go full out without issue.
Always make sure to adjust your rear preload when riding with a passenger or with heavyish luggage.
A few months ago I took a pillion for the first time ever. Only rode for maybe 10 minutes without adjusted rear suspension (I can only adjust preload on my 2012 V-Strom 650) and without adjusted tire pressure. It felt very wobbly and I was not confident at all. A few days later we rode again, but this time with properly inflated rear tire and preload set to maximum. Oh wow, what a difference! It almost felt as riding alone; even the tight u-turns were no problem.
Now that I think about it, in hindsight the steering felt very light, I mean it felt like there was not much load on the front tire. I didn't experience any wobbly feeling, but I suspect I might have if I had been really aggressive with the throttle. So next time I think I'll adjust the front preload as well in order to shift the center of mass a bit forward.
By the way, if you ride very aggressively (very fast acceleration) you might want to look into an aftermarket steering damper.
Accelerating hard enough to cause the front tire to just skim the road surface can also induce a slapper, when those little stones and cracks in the road surface begin knocking that front tire off alignment with the direction of acceleration, and a lack of weight allowing the front wheel to pivot.
@@exothermal.sprocket Yeah and gravity of moon is also possible to cause slappers.
You are leaving other motorcycle channels in the dust. You put in the proper work to create the best content.
Man... FortNine is just an exquisite taste.
The cinematography and teaching content is a never ending mixture in their recipe.
As usual, you found a way to cram weeks of education into 7 minutes of entertainment. Genius is an understatement for your material, sir.
Truly adore this channel's educational voice; humorous, accessible, and helpful. Thanks for so much great teaching. It's helped me grasp so many concepts as well as feel much more empowered about motorcycle ownership.
Really impressed. Thank u.
any subject, YOU make it interesting. I love Mini Clarkson, and i m not afraid to hide it ! Go on Little one ! we LOOOOOVE YOU
Even going back as recent as 8 months and you can see how much the video quality increased recently, and this is still brilliant, it just all got, brillianter
I’m new to motorcycling and I do not think I will ever cease to learn from this channel
0:30
Was out of pocket 😂
Yes, I would engage the perfect suspension.....if available. Actually I do so each time when I start my car. That thing (Citroen C5) does have the system that matches your Skyhook idea. For the interested: The Citroen C5 has an active, hydro-pneumatic, suspension that controls every wheel individually. Sadly, it never got introduced to motorcycling. The system is incredibly brilliant! Even the ride height is adjustable... It would be great on my V-strom.
it would be heavy on a bike and probably only practical on heavy baggers
It doesn't change damping in way ryan describe here. Also drive c5 with hydro.
Its cool system but far from mentioned here.
It just can engage sport, harder setting depending on driver inputs.
C6 has adjustable damping and one of the operating modes is actually called skyhook.
I remember my first tank slapper, scary as hell. I was getting off of I4 doing about 120 mph during Bike Week in Daytona. I hit some small bump in the road and I thought I was going down. I managed to keep it upright, but it was a dern moment for sure!
If you were going 120, you deserved to go down.
Yah, highway construction, going on for miles on 295, they didn't really cone up or warn anyone they were doing some pavement work in one area. I hit it and went airborne at about 85 mph on crappy uneven road, then the wobbles come in. Luckily it all sorted itself out in about a second or so, though it seemed like an eternity. My butthole was so tight I bet you couldn't have pulled a banjo string thru with a bulldozer when that finally ended. I just vaguely remember saying to myself, don't lose the handlebars but don't fight them, off the throttle, let it settle out. Thankifully it heard my prayers. Don't want to go thru that again.
Boy this is one of the densest compilation of knowledege in any knowledge field. There is stuff in here for a year of learning in about 7 Minutes or even less. Congratulations on this marvelous video. I'm not much of a biker any more, too old, but I wish I had taken the time to learn this when I was younger. Kudos
FortNine is undoubtedly a hands-on academy of physics!
Thank you for the premium contents
Just got done watching a bunch of tank slapper vids and wanted to know the why behind it. Thank you so much for you video! I now know the why behind it. I hope those guys figured it out and got there bikes suspension dialed in. Very scary thing to happen!
@ᴛᴇ𝒙ᴛ ᴍᴇ ᴏɴ ᴛᴇʟᴇɢʀᴀᴍ @𝑺𝒊𝒓_𝑭𝒐𝒓𝒕𝑵𝒊𝒏𝒆𝒆 hello?
Always a provocative and masterful production! Thank you!
It’s crazy to think that a RUclips channel influenced me to get into riding!!! I appreciate this channel so much and I hope it continues to be my number one source until the end of my days. Plus I hope you guys do a video in the Yukon so you can really test off-road adventuring.
Yes, experiencing a tank slapper was a part of learning to ride in the 1970s especially on twin shocked 750 plus bikes. Scary? well yes and if you survived, you bought better suspended/ true wheeled motorcycles. Else the funeral parlour did great business! Glad I survived. Thanks Ryan for explaining what went wrong when I was young. Ride Kymco AK550 auto motorcycle with Arrow pipe now I'm mature Aged pensioner. LOL
For purely processional commuters, you probably would want unflappable suspension. But for passion riding? You're clipping the wings of the visceral experience we signed up to risk our lives for. Great video
Excellent explanation and entertaining as always. The dentist on the GS got me, as well as the 25k and F@ck off, 😂😂😂
The $1500 I "forked" over on suspension upgrades and tuning were definitely the best money I have ever spent on farkles.
This channel is a treasure trove of information I did not know I needed and now cannot live without. With each new episode comes anticipation, enjoyment and education. Well done, F9! Bravo!
Other, more common causes of tank slappers include: 1/ Too much luggage weight behind the rear axle making the front and light. Watch out for luggage racks that protrude out back. 2/ Weight transfer off the front wheel caused by the drag induced by flat fronted touring screens.
Rarely comment on anything online, however, this guy and his team are The Benchmark for their diligence and attention to detail. Motorcycle press....this your competition.
Always check the manufacturers manual on how to adjust and/or service the suspension on your bikes, they're all different. Thank you for your uploading this.
Thanks Ryan, I've just had the suspension on my zx14 professionally adjusted after 5 years of leaving it how the shop originally set it up.
This video made it all a lot easier to understand.
Absolutely love this channel and I'm always really excited whenever I get an alert of a new video. Ryan's knowledge seems to know no bounds, so I was surprised to see him get it backwards at 2:15 - the top part of the spring he is holding is the softest, stiffest is at the bottom.
Noticed that too but not a suspension expert so wondered if I had got it wrong 😑
the soft section of spring is what is causing the section with a wider gap to act in a progressive manner by preventing it from twisting and creating a shorter functional wire, increasing spring rate. this makes it the stiffest at the section closest to where the "soft" coils are. the short twists are not really a part of the spring, as far as springing functionality goes, more an accessory to the spring that using funky fysics to trick it into behaving nonlinearly. kind of like preloading negative twist onto the wire so when it is compressed, the section closer to the tight coils will not want to twist as much
Chalk board diagram shows advised position for installation, does it really matter? The spring reacts as a single unit, invert the fork assembly the spring still reacts the same.
I don't think it matters. The soft part of the spring will compress the most at first no matter if it is at the top or the bottom. All forces are linear.
@@flechette3782 The issue was his pointing, not his aversion to the laws of physics.
These videos are so informative and intelligent.
I often finish them feeling smarter.
This guy somehow finds such perfect examples of the principles he's teaching. 4:35 you can see *exactly* what he was just explaining so clearly. Amazing
I'm late to this party (just found FortNine a week or so ago). I really enjoy your explanations, vibe, friendly & disarming approach, and low-to-no sales tactics. You've got another fan!
I had the phone in my hand and I'm still number 6. I guess it shows how much we love his work.
Good suspension setup can really work wonders! Dave Moss has great videos on this topic on RUclips.
My old Hypermotard had the tendency for speedwobbles, especially with much wind or bad roads.
I took some time to really adjust the suspension and this problem was gone.
The humor in this episode was especially on point!
Well done, well done!!!!!!!!
Consistently among the best videos/channels on all of RUclips, on any subject.
All aspects are top notch, research, writing, camera, sound, infographics, presentation, music, etc. All finely tuned, ahem.
Thank you.
Progressive springs, the right density oil, proper preload and tire pressure/wheel balancing, and not slamming your wheelies like a squid out of water are generally enough to protect you from ever having wobbles lol. A steering dampener is probably your best insurance though. Usually a tank slapper is a result of all of these failing, not just one, so it's good to protect yourself as much as you can with good maintenance. Overloading your bike can cause them too. Having wind resistance high above the center of gravity and a lot of weight at or behind the rear wheel is a great way to lighten the front end enough to cause some spooky moments. The skyhook thing is very interesting. Fully automatic suspension sounds great! Great video, as always.
Yeap, definitely top RUclips content! It almost feels like he had a full degree on VFS, and a big team behind cameras!
"500lbs of pure desire to be straight" Hahahahaha That one cracked me up! BTW, where did you get your F800 saddle bags from?
The jokes are rapid fire fast too, lmao.
fortnine.ca bien sûr. They're Nelson Rigg Adventure Dry bags, although mine are quite old. The new ones look like this: fortnine.ca/en/nelson-rigg-deluxe-adventure-motorcycle-dry-saddlebags - great bags!
Same, I laughed so hard I had to rewind because I couldn't hear the next 15 seconds worth.
@@FortNine Thanks!
I've just spat my lunch. Thanks Ryan!
Ryan's videos have gotten so good that I like them before I start watching them now
Same
May not see this... But thank you... I'm still learning on my own... Physically... But you have been a huge part of my awareness, patience, staying grounded. Ty
My heart! That squealing damping-control was… adorable.
Man imagine a twist of the wrist remake done by this guy
Haha, last time i cleaned up, i found the VHS under some dust. I would be totally up for that!
Dude I’d actually pay to support a version of that
Him and Motojitsu together would make the ultimate riding school
@@1Fine69c No, thanks. Can't stand motojistu
@@boo_ why is that? i think hes a good instructor
In motocross this was called headshake, if it ever happened to me I would counter it by hitting the rear break. And yes I set up the suspension properly.
Keep up the great work and awesome content Ryan! By far my favorite channel on the tube!
Never drove a bike since driving licence test, but I really like learning stuff from your channel... great work...
I have had bikes for many many years and never really thought much about the suspension. I just had my xt660x suspension set up with Hyperpro progressive springs front and rear. Goodness me IT FEELS LIKE A DIFFERENT BIKE! Truly an amazing improvement and the best 600 UKP I ever spent on a bike for sure!
Keep up the great work please! Simon
I didn't know the rear shock was affected by the angle changes. A fun fact is that on a variable spring it does not matter which way around they are placed. The weakest part will always compress first which makes perfect sense but a lot of people think you need to put them a certain way.
You could affect the amount of unsprung weight. If most of the spring has to move towards the end that compresses first it would act as unsprung weight.
But to be fair, the amount of weight in the spring versus the wheel, brakes and lower fork is pretty much negligible.
After thinking about it some more there's also the effect of "waves" through the spring. Basically it takes a little time for the force to travel through the spring, and for the entire spring to equalize. The wave would travel faster through the stiffer part of the spring. ruclips.net/video/10-QGhm5hgc/видео.html
Sorry for babbling, not at all meant as coming at you, it was just interesting to think about :)
@@kaggen No need to apologise. I am learning a lot of new things thank you.
Absolutely incredible stuff as always. This is one of the only channels that never ever let's down
You really should have covered the finale common cause of tank slappers. Out of adjustment or worn out neck bearings.
And the spring rates on bikes with dual rear suspension not matching perfectly (Harley Dyna).
Wheels not weighted properly can also cause them, and on super sports too much weight on your wrists can also cause them as well. I'm especially conscious about this on my r6.
@@Matty_Ice9 Yes, balancing or tires with wear or new poor quality tires can increase chance of it to happen. I had those.
Also totally had forgotten, but in my youth I had a pocket bike - too firm grip would make it wobbly instantly! 🤔 Crazy sensitive steering, would not like that on an bike going over 25 mph 🙃
And mis-adjusted forks in the triples shortening trail too much causing an overly nervous front end
And uneven fork oil levels due to a leaking seal or pitted fork tube
My 2 tank slapper were due to cracks in the road. The first one was in a curve which made me continue straight. Thankfully no oncoming traffic. Second one was on a highway going highway speeds and I just let go of the steering but just barely holding on to it to let it readjust itself and also no whiskey throttle. After a tankslapper you're so happy your alive and the rush of adrenalin is so crazy.
This is a great video. I talk to a lot of people that want steering dampers to "fix" front oscillation but I always tell them they're fixing the symptom instead of the cause.
Another way to preload the front end is to lower your forks. Not a ton, obviously, but small adjustments can do some pretty amazing things. I rode an R6 for a lot of years commuting. I found the front end too light for around town so I dropped the forks 10mm to plant the tire better. Worked wonders.
My 2011 very modded Mini Cooper uses linear springs. Always know what my suspension is gonna do.
Another informative and entertaining video! Great stuff!
The question at the end hit me unexpectedly. I found that to be very interesting with respect to the content of this video. Well done, sir!
It's almost unbelievable how good your are in explaining basic physics and its application. Thank you!
4:35 Paulo Gonçalves crash in 2016 Dakar rally. He kept going. Died in 2020 Dakar rally.
When I saw the title of this video I was hoping you were going to talk about steering dampers to avoid tank slappers. But I don't think you mentioned them. Are you perhaps going to make a sequel video which does elaborate on steering dampers. I believe they're extremely important in circuit racing, be it on and off road. But for some reason they're mainly used in rally racing (like Dakar) and almost never in motocross and enduro. I don't understand why.
such perfect timing, this video dropped after I just booked a hotel for an event.
Got more invigorated into riding from this channel. It’s fun too learn and a few pieces of gear made riding way more comfortable.
Man, you've got a great gift of instruction. It's truly marvelous how you can make complex concepts understandable. Please post some teaching videos. Maybe Canadian civics or the history of the French and Indian War? I also appreciate the work you put into every video- the production value and pace. Thank You.
The Bose active suspension was great - and completely ignored by everyone. You have to wonder if the extreme power requirement and mass penalties it incurred 40 years ago (plus potentially uber-unreliable 1980s electronics) would be such an issue today...
When I started riding ABS was a multithousand dollar option only on top end bikes. By the end of the 80s it was a few hundred dollars on scooters and now it's standard equipment to the point that non-abs is banned in many markets
My bike doesn't have ABS and I was wondering if you can feel it/notice it when braking?
@@joshslater9835 of course you can feel it. ABS allows to steer while braking fully, not just slide forward.
7:09 ~ Was actually sipping tea. 🙂
Same
Suspension is definitely one of the hardest things to get right on a motorcycle.
Check Dave Moss' tunning channel!
Ask the Superbike teams? They will agree with you!
@@andrechagas4549 Is that the guy who tells everyone to set their sag correctly most of the time, because they all jacked the preload up to max.
It's frigging Witchcraft if you don't do it often and on different bikes.
@@madman432000 full ergos and fork / shock setup
Again: Good Job, as always! I see the comment regularly that this is the best Motorcycle related content on YT but after nearly exhausting your library I am convinced you have the best "Do-It-Yourself" content on the Inter-Web! I watch everything from Auto-Centric to Xylophone Repair and Race/All Terrain/Off Road/4X4 to DIY of every topic and I do not see the consistent high quality and creative thoughtfulness of F9. Nobody, Nowhere, Knowhow. I will shut up now and start at the top. Thanks for the great Videos and for sharing your talents.
Ryan. It's so great to hear your coming to the UK, I doubt I'll be there but I hope you have a great time and safe travels.
Skyhook required no springs and no damping, but there are other methods of assisted fully active suspension. There is a normal coil spring to hold the weight of the bike or car at a "nuetral" position. But when you hit a bump the EM springs kick in and force the suspension to compress or rebound the correct amount.
You just described semi active suspension. Semi active uses springs, active uses no springing, the hydraulic pump reacts to pressure sensors to perform the task of the spring.
@@davidcolin6519 EM stands for electromechanical springs. Semi active systems only control the damping of the shocks.
No. In my Understanding the difference between active and semi active is, wether the controlling system can apply it’s own force into the suspension or not.
CDC, as described in the video, only controls the damping coefficient and therefore can only vary the reactive force acting against the suspension movement.
Active Suspension, like The Bose Version, can introduce additional force or power with electric motors or hydraulics. Therefore they require quite a bit energy.
Mercedes has a Active Suspension called ABC, where they move the mounting point of a traditional steel spring with hydraulics.
@@matthiasvolk6006 You used a lot of words to repeat what I just said.
@@matthiasvolk6006 Well, considering an application of force requires a pump of some sort, and not having a pump requires springs, in what way does your definition differ from what I said?
Aaah! the Mercedes method of getting around an F1 ban on active suspension! I see!
So, why don't you tell me why you would have a spring in an active Systemj, other than to subvent a competitor rule?
Or am I just being thick? Because I remember the Lotus system in its development phase ( I was in the same class as Clive Chapman, Colin Chapman's son) and it was very, very clear to both Colin and everybody else that an active system used computer controlled hydraulic rams/pumps etc to produce active suspension. That M-B may have come up with a system that uses springs just means that their system is semi-active, and I'm sure that they would claim the same.
But enough about that, why don't you tell us all how a spring works in a system that is specifically designed to not use springs?
Citroen has been producing the perfect suspension for decades, it's called Hydroactive.
To bad they stopped making this marvel of engineering in 2018.
Just because steel spring suspension was "good enough" for customers who are now focused on entertainment gadgets.
Yes, it got bad rep for poor maintenance I guess. My dad had 3, I also had 3 and still blame myself for selling the first of those because of "small" issues and it ended up going for scrap.
I never got to the bottom of this, but I think the bad rep was "it leans too much" (older ones especially, but they kept the wheels firmly planted unlike the funny swing axle cars of their time), "it's too soft" (apparently people equate a bumpy ride with sporty aspirations"), but guess what, the moose test speed record is still held by the 1998 Citroen Xantia Activa. And finally, I guess what killed 2 of my 3 Citroens is a terminal hydraulic fluid leak (the first one did too, but I had that one repaired before selling it). But they all had 250.000+ km on them, and then people forget that other cars would have had springs, shocks etc replaced multiple times already...
@@MaartenvanHeek In my family we have had/ has nine large Citroën. 4 CX, 3 Xm, one C5 and the glorius C6. Only once have I had a major hydtaulic leak, it was on an 20 year old CX and was easy to fix by the roadside.
@@Svarthammarholet in my case it was on a 20 yo XM strut return line (fixed same night), second was a Xantia under the (hot) engine block so could not be fixed roadside and had to be towed, by that time including upcoming MOT repairs it was a total loss. Third was a diravi on another XM, after having it repaired 3 times in 3 months I was done with that car, as you can imagine :)
@@MaartenvanHeek In my experience it pays of to find a meccanic that really knows and love these cars if you want to keep them alive and healthy. They are in many ways completely different from all other brands.
And ahh yes the good old Diravi, best ever power-steering in the history of automobiles..
Outstanding motorbike suspension lesson👍
Never in my 43 yrs of riding did I have a desire to do a wheelie ever. Respect your equipment. However,..I love you're videos!!
Why?
When i built myself a ''bitsa'' motorcycle, based on a Norton featherbed frame, I had a problem with the rear wheel contacting the mudguard on full depression.
To cure this, I fitted longer rear suspension units. This cured the problem, but also made the steering more responsive, by changing the angle between the front forks and the road.
So even a small change in rear suspension can have a significant effect on steering.
.
That homophobe joke was gold 😂
Canada’s greatest export since maple syrup
Also if someone told me to get a quart of fork oil, I would have thought they were messing with me like asking to get some blinker fluid.
You can't have damping without some sort of non compressible liquid. Designs with non serviceable damper cartridges exist but those are also prefilled with fluid from factory. Makes sense to use oil, it can double as lubricant to the moving parts as well. Fork oil is essentially hydraulic fluid specially formulated to prevent foaming under rapid movement.
@@frankthetankricard makes sense to me!
ruclips.net/video/RXJKdh1KZ0w/видео.html
Hum…Canadian Bacon with that Maple Syrup?
Don't forget to teach Ryan how to pronounce "Warwickshire" while he's there!
Here just for this comment 😂 worrickshir?
Yup, that made me laugh. Let’s hope he doesn’t go to Leicestershire 🤦♂️😂
Or Worcestershire ;)
You all beat me to it!
I don't know how I missed this when it came out. What a pleasant surprise to come across it now.
Best bike channel out there... good luck in the UK.. you will need all the suspension you can muster for our potholed roads...
Am I the only one who's still impressed that at 0:52 he didn't drop it?
I’m a simple man. I see Ryan, and I click watch.
RF9 Dropping more bombs than an invading military. Well done! And thank you for the great video and many laughs, we really, really appreciate it. Gratefully,Dennis
I enjoy your vids and have learned a bunch thanks!!
1988 Honda GL1500 97k miles, my tank slapper issues were due to worn front tires, steering head bearings needed minor re-torquing and loose bolts securing front forks.
You stated the essential points of suspension in a clear consice way. Keep up the good work. Ive made rally shocks worked on race teams setting up suspension and I learn something from each of your videos.