In general I agree, but there are times when it's useful. I've used it on a rebreather to quickly disable ADV, for example. I'd never put it on OC rig, as it's just one more thing that can be overlooked.
I have used them and do like them . Its like anything know your equipment for yourself and those you dive with well. Just a 2 minute briff before a dive in not enough. Its like anything it can fail but does not often. I have a few spares to it works. I have them on both regulators.
My instructor at the DPV course told me that I absolutely had to have these parts on my regulators. Otherwise there would be a danger that the air shower would be activated by the water pressure while driving and air would flow out unnoticed.
I had one on a BC air supply on an OC rig. I rigged it to be always on with a zip tie. Just never wanted to have to deal with on or off in a high stress situation. Eventually removed entirely. I think I would rather deal with free flow than not have air.
I installed one of these once on my bailout, seemed like a good idea to stop losing any gas from a leaking regulator. Luckily I tested it at home, I had an IP creep and long story short I ran away and my hose went boom!
I had one of these when I did my Trimix certification in 2006. Switching it on and off seemed to damage the valve inside the 1st stage and caused intermediate pressure to rise. When I removed it the constant problems suddenly stoped. Sold them for a surprisingly good price on eBay.
If you use one without a downstream deman valve on another port an OPV is mandatory. That said I dont believe they have a place in regular OC use. But on my ADV I don't mind. Next set up won't have an ADV either.
I guess given the choice in a failure I'd rather have to much gas coming out instead of not enough. It's probably why second stages fail or freeze open. It's why I'd NEVER use an aqualung acd first stage because I know that they have failed closed at depth. My first stages all have a shut off already called a tank valve and my second stages all have an adjustment knob to adjust flow to mitigate gas loss at least a bit allowing for an exit.
what about the use on scootering? Going at a certain speed can make your regulator which you are not using (sidemount, bailout, decostage,...) going into freeflow. Personally I'm not using it but another instructor adviced it to me in this scenario.
I have used these valves for scootering for that purpose in the past. I have since removed them, because of the points mentioned in the video. Now I will pressurise my bailouts and close them when scootering. This is also easier to explain to a buddy who might need your bailout. Another important point is the need for an overpressure relief valve if you use it on a bailout.
I generally agree with this. If you have a VERY good use-case for it, and are aware of the drawbacks? Sure. However, as stated, it's a failure point (even if tiny), can be a hazard if you or a buddy need gas NOW. You'll also want an OPV (another failure point) if connected to regulator on an open tank, with only 1 first stage, otherwise you risk a hose exploding.
How would you risk a hose exploding? The valve in shut-off position is no different than a closed demand valve on the second stage. Still wouldn't put it on my system. If I'm switching to my alternate, I want it to work right away and not require any fiddling.
@@bloodymarvelous4790 If pressure creeps up on the low-pressure side, the 2nd stage regulator will naturally vent that excess pressure. However, if it's closed off, there's nowhere for the pressure to go except causing something to fail (like the hose, or the shut-off-valve). The pressure can creep on the LP side if (for example) the HP seat inside the 1st stage doesn't create a PERFECT seal.
I don't like the idea of adding potential failure points, but seems that a good post dive cleaning and changing the o rings annually would mitigate that. What are your thoughts on its practicality as another tool to manage a free flow? Could very quickly shutoff the free flow, switch to alternate and then address the free flow as trained.
If freeflow happens because of first stage freezing, which causes intermediate pressure to rise, then shutting it down with this would cause the hose to explode. Second stage is designed to leak when pressure rises too much. You should have one component in the system that gives up on that situation. This gadget removes that safety feature from the regulator.
I run one on my O2 for my rebreather (Kiss Sidewinder, MCCR). Reaching the O2 first stage is quite difficult and the shut off allows me easy access while on the surface and during an SCR or bailout event. The downside is forgetting to turn it on can eventually lead to hypoxia, but in reality i check my PPO2 frequently enough to notice, and my loop volume would shrink as i metabolized O2 to where i’d add dil. My habit is to check my PPO2 every time i add dil, so i’d see it then.
Only place I saw these make sense was on Richard Harris's twin meg setup on his primary meg's adv since they both get plumbed with the same dil tank, so shutting it off at the tank isn't desireable. Unless you're doing something extreme like that then this seems like just an unnecessary failure point.
On the stage regulator seems to make really no sense. 1.Stage getting loose? I do not see this. On a Rebreather, the shut offs are a no go in any way. It makes no sense at all educated or not. Thank you Achim. Thank you Juan!
@@bloodymarvelous4790 I do not understand what you want to tell. If you comment on my lines, I would like to understand it. Maybe you care for explaining.
From my humble position of only a few hundred dives I'd suggest it would be better in this guy's case to address the original problem by proper servicing and care of the second stage. If that's an XTX50 it should not have this issue. Otherwise I see just increased risk of an equipment and/or human factors failure.
Bad idea. Totally useless and dangerous part. we have divers forgot to switch there regulator from pre dive to dive mode. And they are experts. In my opinion it is just one more thing that can make me worry before during and after the dive.
In general I agree, but there are times when it's useful. I've used it on a rebreather to quickly disable ADV, for example. I'd never put it on OC rig, as it's just one more thing that can be overlooked.
I have used them and do like them . Its like anything know your equipment for yourself and those you dive with well. Just a 2 minute briff before a dive in not enough.
Its like anything it can fail but does not often. I have a few spares to it works. I have them on both regulators.
My instructor at the DPV course told me that I absolutely had to have these parts on my regulators. Otherwise there would be a danger that the air shower would be activated by the water pressure while driving and air would flow out unnoticed.
I had one on a BC air supply on an OC rig. I rigged it to be always on with a zip tie. Just never wanted to have to deal with on or off in a high stress situation. Eventually removed entirely. I think I would rather deal with free flow than not have air.
I installed one of these once on my bailout, seemed like a good idea to stop losing any gas from a leaking regulator. Luckily I tested it at home, I had an IP creep and long story short I ran away and my hose went boom!
I was taught Should also run a OPV to help illuminate just that scenario
I had one of these when I did my Trimix certification in 2006. Switching it on and off seemed to damage the valve inside the 1st stage and caused intermediate pressure to rise. When I removed it the constant problems suddenly stoped. Sold them for a surprisingly good price on eBay.
If IP rises only with the valve shut off, you may have a leaky first stage.
If you use one without a downstream deman valve on another port an OPV is mandatory. That said I dont believe they have a place in regular OC use. But on my ADV I don't mind. Next set up won't have an ADV either.
I guess given the choice in a failure I'd rather have to much gas coming out instead of not enough. It's probably why second stages fail or freeze open. It's why I'd NEVER use an aqualung acd first stage because I know that they have failed closed at depth. My first stages all have a shut off already called a tank valve and my second stages all have an adjustment knob to adjust flow to mitigate gas loss at least a bit allowing for an exit.
Cannot agree more guys!
what about the use on scootering? Going at a certain speed can make your regulator which you are not using (sidemount, bailout, decostage,...) going into freeflow. Personally I'm not using it but another instructor adviced it to me in this scenario.
I have used these valves for scootering for that purpose in the past. I have since removed them, because of the points mentioned in the video. Now I will pressurise my bailouts and close them when scootering. This is also easier to explain to a buddy who might need your bailout. Another important point is the need for an overpressure relief valve if you use it on a bailout.
I generally agree with this. If you have a VERY good use-case for it, and are aware of the drawbacks? Sure.
However, as stated, it's a failure point (even if tiny), can be a hazard if you or a buddy need gas NOW. You'll also want an OPV (another failure point) if connected to regulator on an open tank, with only 1 first stage, otherwise you risk a hose exploding.
How would you risk a hose exploding? The valve in shut-off position is no different than a closed demand valve on the second stage.
Still wouldn't put it on my system. If I'm switching to my alternate, I want it to work right away and not require any fiddling.
@@bloodymarvelous4790 If pressure creeps up on the low-pressure side, the 2nd stage regulator will naturally vent that excess pressure. However, if it's closed off, there's nowhere for the pressure to go except causing something to fail (like the hose, or the shut-off-valve). The pressure can creep on the LP side if (for example) the HP seat inside the 1st stage doesn't create a PERFECT seal.
I don't like the idea of adding potential failure points, but seems that a good post dive cleaning and changing the o rings annually would mitigate that. What are your thoughts on its practicality as another tool to manage a free flow? Could very quickly shutoff the free flow, switch to alternate and then address the free flow as trained.
If freeflow happens because of first stage freezing, which causes intermediate pressure to rise, then shutting it down with this would cause the hose to explode. Second stage is designed to leak when pressure rises too much. You should have one component in the system that gives up on that situation. This gadget removes that safety feature from the regulator.
I run one on my O2 for my rebreather (Kiss Sidewinder, MCCR). Reaching the O2 first stage is quite difficult and the shut off allows me easy access while on the surface and during an SCR or bailout event. The downside is forgetting to turn it on can eventually lead to hypoxia, but in reality i check my PPO2 frequently enough to notice, and my loop volume would shrink as i metabolized O2 to where i’d add dil. My habit is to check my PPO2 every time i add dil, so i’d see it then.
Only place I saw these make sense was on Richard Harris's twin meg setup on his primary meg's adv since they both get plumbed with the same dil tank, so shutting it off at the tank isn't desireable. Unless you're doing something extreme like that then this seems like just an unnecessary failure point.
I use one on my full face mask. I dont shut it off unless i have to remove the mask.
On the stage regulator seems to make really no sense. 1.Stage getting loose? I do not see this. On a Rebreather, the shut offs are a no go in any way. It makes no sense at all educated or not. Thank you Achim. Thank you Juan!
I'd rather notice any problems with the stage while using my main, and not when I'm fully reliant on the stage cylinder.
@@bloodymarvelous4790 I do not understand what you want to tell. If you comment on my lines, I would like to understand it. Maybe you care for explaining.
From my humble position of only a few hundred dives I'd suggest it would be better in this guy's case to address the original problem by proper servicing and care of the second stage. If that's an XTX50 it should not have this issue. Otherwise I see just increased risk of an equipment and/or human factors failure.
I run a bailout tank. I don’t think I’d want one on my setup.
When narc’d and under stress, I can see this going very badly regardless of experience.
I can't see the application for this. Too many points of failure. Not for me.
Bad idea. Totally useless and dangerous part. we have divers forgot to switch there regulator from pre dive to dive mode. And they are experts. In my opinion it is just one more thing that can make me worry before during and after the dive.
Seems like an extra item with a lot of failure spots. I would rather train to turn off the tank rather than install this weak point.
it is a total nonsense. Maibe on a full face mask that works on positive pressure....But on any other equipment.... definitivly not