Rolling D&D Stats: Tic Tac Toe Method Version 2! | Nerd Immersion
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2024
- I'm back with another Rolling Stats episode! This time it's a different version of the Tic Tac Toe method. I think I like this one better, what do you think?
Thanks for watching!
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A fun idea would be a direct comparison between all of those, using the exact same results of die rolls and see where you get the best / worst stats :D
As a DM i let my players choose to either Point buy, standard array, or Roll.
if they choose to roll
I give them two options
4d6 then reroll 1's, take the three highest (lowest roll: 6, highest: 18)
or
6d4 reroll 1's, take the four highest. (lowest roll:8, Highest: 16)
@@celecitaxerror9553 I wonder what that would look like as a 4×4 grid to use the vid method but the d4s
@@HuchiaZ idk what it looks like in a 4x4 grid
but i know what it looks like in a graph. hahaha
using 6d4 keeping the 4 highest will result in an almost flat line floating above 12
Placing that one on a corner is a bad idea, corners have three lines touching them so a bad corner number spoils many opportunities... Damn there's a meta to this method.
If you can make any line, condensing the worst to the corner means you only need to use the 1 once and it’s used with 2 6’s.
By swapping the 1 and the 2, you can replace your 13 with a 14. Not a huge swing, but still nice.
Yeah, my gut says that was the very last die he rolled, and he was hoping for another 5 or 6 for that spot
Having a low dump stat makes for fun and challenging encounters. Having two makes for moments your table will talk about for years.
All high stat Mary sue characters are a lot of fun in one-shots though.
@@Solnoric I'm speaking from a purely statistics advantage point of view, I do understand the joy of dump stats, one of my favorite characters is a monk that has no formal education.
Wasn't expecting to be learning to min-max a fucking tic tac toe board today
This right here ^^
That version sounds even more fun than the last and could help session 0/character creation be even more fun if you're next expecting any gameplay on the first night.
Its nice to see someone roll stats for all of the characters that i came up with, but will never be able to play.
Fun way to roll stats. I think some people believe this method yields higher values because of the numbers used in this demo. In fact, this is essentially roll 3d6 8 times and take the highest 6. 4d6 drop the lowest 6 times yields a higher result- avg value for 3d6 is like 10.5, the avg value for this method is around 11.6, whereas the average 4d6 drop lowest is 12.3 Not saying its not good, just FYI would yield slightly lower results on avg then 4d6 method commonly used. The only way I would see to improve the avg result over 4d6 drop lowest would be to expand the tic tac toe grid to a 4x4 and draw lines through the 4 rows and 4 columns and 2 diagonals, dropping lowest in any line. Essentially your are then just doing 4d6 drop 8 times and dropping the lowest 2 outcomes.
Well, no. The first thing he rolled was a 6 and he put it in a spot where it could contributed to 4 different stat rolls. His other 6s got put in corners that contribute to 3 stat rolls each. It’s not 8 independent stat rolls, it’s a matrix that yields 8 interdependent stat rolls.
He rolled 9 dice and placed them strategically to make the highest numbers hit the most rolls.
Center (4) -> Corners (3) -> Edges (2)
Edit: Also, if you randomly assign the positions of the dice (which would slightly more closely approximate 8 random rolls) you could end up with some wacky situations like having a 1 in the center, which means a full half of your stat rolls are going to have a 1 in them, maxing out half of your choices at the 1/36 shot for 13. This method is simply not comparable to 8x3d6 or 6x4d6-1 because each of those methods have independent rolls while in this method all of your stats are affected by a much smaller pool of shared dice.
@@tobistein6639 good point! I neglected the inter connected aspect of the roles if user dictates dice position on the matrix.
@@coachvincent in fact, if you put the lower values on the middle lines (ignoring the center of the board) they will only affect 2 values, while the corners affect 3. So yeah, not the same a rolling 8 times at all. This is like rolling a bunch of dice and then picking one by one which ones you wanna use.
Roll for stats. Use point-buy. Whatever you and your playgroup wants to do! It's a game, and whatever is fun for the party and their DM is what matters :)
This version is better than the previous one.
And yes, you did roll INSANELY well.
Remember the good old days where we ran with the first rolls we got and we enjoyed playing characters with flaws because it made for better roleplay
Unfortunately people hate flaws now. People can't handle having a character who's not perfect at every thing.
My issue is with 5e hating players being powerful. You have to be a spellcaster, multiclass, or both to get something fun rolling... And having a max of 15 in the point buy or standard array feels terrible. When I roll, I'm happy to take a couple of 10s or even an 8 or 7, so long as I can get the defining characteristics I need for the character idea.
There's a difference between weak, and boring. Having the majority of your stats be a +1 or +0 isn't weak... It's boring.
Nothing feels worse than rolling stats, and getting middling stats across the board. Techniques like this are a good compromise between randomness and strategy. You could get high stats you need to make a fun build, or justify using your ASIs to get interesting feats, AND you can choose to intentionally take a low stat or two for RP purposes.
A way that i have been liking lately has been a fusion between rolling and point buy that allows for low stats but without having objectively better characters in the party. Works like standard roll 4 drop 1, but you have a point total that you have to hit. So for example standard standard array has a 12 average, the the point total is 72. You roll your dice and assign your stats, then take 72-(stat total) to get your point pool to add or subtract. I tend to have an upper cap on any stat be 18, lower cap as 6
For higher stat game, you can just up the average, like an average of 14 would 84, for example.
People are like "this gives you too strong stats it's overpowered" and then they turn down point buy because they want to roll stats FOR SOME UNEXPLAINED REASON (it's because they want to roll extremely high stats and point buy means they have to work for their stats)
„For some unexplained reason“
Ever heard of this thing called fun? It’s great you should try it out. And rolling also adds a layer of randomness and you probably end up having a weakness which is great for roleplaying.
@@the4given196 I rolled my 5 STR Skeleton Bard and they're the most fun character I've ever played
@@coreymartin9630 im playing a rogue rn with 17 int but only 6 charisma(hes an assassin so the int is just for roleplay). its amazing to be a literal mastermind and the by far smartest character of the group, but as soon as someones nice to him hes literally confused and awkward.
A Rogue with 18 Charisma and 6 Dexterity is great. I once convinced an Ogre to leave us alone and go look for a giant chicken to eat after doing a Kentucky accent. I then got eaten by a Dire Wolf that I failed to dodge.
@@the4given196 I think that's what they were referring to. People who think rolling for stats to potentially get an advantage is fun shouldn't take umbridge of this. Especially when the difficulty/experience of the DnD session can be adjusted by the person who sets up this method.
I do something similar but I put them in order of how I roll them from left to right up to down, and then list out all the results so I can see what all my options are. I like to do it like this so I can plan on what kind of character I'm going to play and if I want to give them any weaknesses I can play off of for roleplay.
This was just the group of gents with magnificent facial hair.
I think it works better if you have to use the sudoku totals, no diagonals, as "whatever 6 lines we want" means no low scores unless you roll terribly
For anyone curious, that would give you: 11, 12, 15, 8, 14, and 15. It's still fairly good (a bit better than standard array iirc but it's not insane).
If you play with honor and sanity, you can use all eight lines
The optimal method for this would be to put the lowest number in the top middle, since then it only affects 2 lines
Any middle works, the board is 4-way symmetrical
This average would come out to bigger stats, so beware if you want to do this method. Nothing wrong with big numbers, but some games definately wont benefit from the method. Fun idea, definstely a gimic I could see in an rpg book.
Yeah agreed. I'll stick with point buy. Tic tac toe is a fun method but PCs are already OP by default.
I know I'm a little late to the party, but I would like to point out that this guy got VERY lucky with his dice rolls. 7 of his 9 dice were above a 3.
Now that's a method I haven't seen in a while.
It definitely cuts down on the usage of dice, and certainly adds to the flavor to dice rolling by making it a mini game.
My concern with this method is that a reduction in the number of dice being rolled can lead to more skewed results when those rolling D6's.
For rolling straight 3d6 and going down the line, the probability of rolling higher numbers gets cut in half (18 dice rolled vs. 9 dice with this method). For rolling "4d6kh3" (4d6, keep the 3 highest), this cuts it down to just under a third (24 dice rolled vs. 9 dice rolled by this method).
It's an interesting twist, sure, but going this route can leave the PC with some very wonky stats, especially if their natural dice rolling tendencies are low.
One of my DM’s does a thing where after you’ve rolled for stats. You can reduce any one stat by 2 to increase another stat by 1
This is why I started telling my players I don't care what method they use to roll stats, just bring six stats you feel good about.
Bold. But if you're players are responsible than it actually works out nicely
@@brianclarke9861 Eh. The worst they can do is bring Johnny Six Eighteens to the table, and then I adjust the encounter CR up two levels and send religious assassins after the guy Clearly Chosen by the Gods.
@@themocaw I like this take tbh good on you for jumping on something that works
Center spot houses 4 lines, so put the 6 (or highest number you rolled) there
Corners house 3 lines, so put your next best 4 rolls there (not sure about exact positions)
Sides house 2 lines so your worst rolls go there (again unsure about exact position)
My guess is that you would want your highest Corner roll and lowest Side roll to be a chess knight move away from each other to avoid having them both in the same 3 dice combination. Also, your best Corner rolls should be in opposite corners to utilize the Center roll in between
Simpler is sometimes better.
Start with a base number Roll 2D6 and add them.
The base number is either a 4 or a 5 or a 6.
A 4 base Gives 6 to 16
A 5 base gives 7 to 17
A 6 base gives 8 to 18.
Which ever base number the DM and players agree on.
This "ubermensch " is so powerfull i dont know what to play with him.. ( probably a human fighter champion... )
"I AM THE PEAK OF HUMAN PHYSICALITY"
Paladin, the class that wants like 3 or 4 good stats at once, that is who you play
@@LittlePinkBowser bloodhunter, monk and barbarian are also classes that want 3+ good stats
If that was a (lets be basic joke) I am here for it.
But on a serious note any class that is M.A.D. (multiple attribute dependant) 3 high stats. Focus on your class after the rolls is what i like to do.
It is fun seeing what you can work with based on rolls first.
If you do this, but can't use diagonals, then there are only 6 options, meaning that you have to use every available line. I don't think that's better or worse, but it's a small change that would have a big impact.
I built a system I call the Waterfall Method. It is d6,d5,d4,d3,d2 and keep all.
It works great for my table in giving stats that average above 72, but not making any one stat too powerful
could you elaborate slightly? this sounds like a fun method, I'd like to try it 🤔🤓
@@MorganBondelid sure! so it is
d6,d5,d4,d3,d2
if you are using physical dice, roll a d6 and a d4. then take half of a d10, a d6, and a d4 (or flip a coin). repeat for each stat
when adding all totals together, you will on average get around a 75, but since it is middle-weighted you likely won't have multiple 18s making some players out-class everyone else.
the range of dice used gives us a minimum of 5, and a maximum of 20 in each stat. however, due to using these specific dice, the odds of getting below 7 are very low. similarily, rolling an 18 or above has the same odds as rolling an 18 with the more traditional 4d6 drop 1.
this gives me a comfortable midrange of stats, with the majority falling into the 9-16 range. That said, It has enough randomness to get occasional 9-7 and 16-18, with the true outliers of 6-5 and 19-20 being very rare, but possible.
thanks for asking, I hope it goes well!
If the dice are placed randomly, the average is 12.7166 as you have 8 lines to choose from and pick 6, which would cost about 28/27 points in point buy, so pretty close to standard.
However, since you rolled 1 at a time and placed them, it could be potentially higher through strategic placement by putting a 6 in the middle and low numbers on middle outer lines
I like the mini game. Makes stat generation fun and certainly more generous than some other methods.
the interesting thing about this method is that every dice gets atleast used in 1 stat. with the middle dice beeing used in atleast 2 and up to 4
the corner dice in atleast 1 and up to 3
and the side die in 0 up to 2
i am trying to figure out what the average would be but it looks a bit tricky to get that
i did try rolling a few of them and it looks like its extremly hard to get anything over 16 and below 10.
average of the endstat looks like 13. which makes it very close to point buy but with less extremes.
(i know this is a joke system but its also interesting from a math standpoint)
You have to think carefully about where you place your numbers, a low number on a corner can spoil up to three lines.
@@devin5201 You could negate the "corner value boost" by limiting the lines to just horizontal and vertical. Every die would be used exactly twice. You could add a die or two rolled to lessen the risk of multiple '1's, but that does increase the risk of "whoops, all sixes".
I like this method, but I feel like there should be some sort of a system to counteract the power swing. With just 9 dice it'd be very easy to roll all averaging 2.5 per die (making the average Ability Score only 7.5) or an averaging die of 4.5 (making the average Ability Score the more standard 13.5.
Maybe low rolls should have an extra bonus - like an extra starting feat for every '1', and an extra starting proficiency with every '2'? And maybe a minor "anti-feat" for every 6, like an enemy or an addiction or some such. A mostly narrative complication.
Regardless, I like how this reduces the amount of dice you have to roll, but still having some. I like rolling dice, don't get me wrong, but rolling 24 dice in 6 groups of four and removing a die and adding the rest together is a lot of busywork that doesn't really "add" to the character. It's just numbers.
I feel like placing them in order from left to right, top to bottom is a good way to prevent too much midmaxing
Yeah I like the concept of randomly determining that ahead of time
If you're unfortunate enough to roll a 1 for the center slot, you're left with half your stats having a max of 13.
Overall this isn't very good at all, either way. Just roll normally, you don't need some weird convoluted way to roll for stats
Looking at this method I feel like it gives some very strong stats. to balance it out a bit I would say maybe chose the line by choosing strongest and weakest, then the 2nd strongest and 2nd weakest
2 other you choose wich ever you want or same method again. I feel it would make for a more intresting characters since their is more chance of them getting some proper weakness. In this case you would get 17/16/15/14/11/8 and even then, it's still strong.
You could just make it so you only use the horizontal and vertical lines,
Then it'll give roughly the same stats as normally.
Keep in mind his rolls were cracked (really high) so he was able to get away with very few weaknesses. Maybe try it out a little bit and see how worse rolls effect it.
I think I just found new my favourite rolling method
I saw this on a comment in the r/dnd subreddit yesterday and this video got recommended. Mom pick me up im scared.
Gamble. Middle is the highest value, corners next highest. Not sure if thats by design, but wanted to point that out.
Rolling stats is DEFINITELY something I do NOT miss!
I use 30 point point buy and you can go up to 18 (still 2 points for every point above 13). This allows to put a 13 in every stat or if you want two 18s you get 8s in all your other stats.
@@XanderHarris1023 so you're telling me you allow someone to have a 20 in a stat, at level 1?
@@THEPELADOMASTER Sure, but then you need four dump stats.
I have one problem with this method. As others have pointed out, the average numbers seem to work out pretty well, but you would be more likely to have all great stats or all horrible stats at the same time, as at least the center die has to be used in multiple stats. I enjoy the rp of having low stats, but having more than 1 or 2 sucks
Odds are really good you'll have at least one 5 or 6, so save the middle for a higher roll.
Obviously don't put a 1 in the middle for best scores. But even then, you only have to use mid for at most two scores
As much fun as this is, point buy is just more balanced and easier to control as a DM. Additionally, it's better for planning characters as most DMs will not force a homebrew Stat generation method on the player.
The truly psychotic method: 1d20 per ability score; no re rolls, Down the line, and you have to pick your class/race before you roll
the way god intended
DM: alright roll up your stats
Player: righto >pulls out 9 d6's
Personally I'd either say do one of the following to make it more balanced:
#1: The placement of each die is pre-determined but you get to pick your 6 lines. I.E. Roll each d6 and place them going from top left, top middle, top right, est. but you get to pick your 6 lines.
#2: Choose your 6 lines first but you get to place each die wherever you want AFTER you pick your lines.
It feels like this version gives you way too much flexibility to get beefed up stats. Honestly the best characters need to have some kinda flaw. Granted you didn't roll below a 3 for all but two of your dice in this method, but this shows how you can easily avoid that 1 as much as possible.
Or you should just give everyone 12 across the board if you want it to be balanced low-end.
@@TheLastSane1 It's less a matter of balance and more a matter of realism and fun. A character who has both strengths and weaknesses, I personally feel, is more fun to run.
Seeing all of these methods for rolling stats is why I love point buy, if I'm to be honest. I love having low stats and high ones. But, well, this is coming from someone who created a character who developed skills specific for an environment and has immediately left that environment. I mean, come on, what dnd player goes out of their way to make their character unoptimised for adventuring for the sake of compelling character motivations?
Many people do
That's an overpowered character
I love this!
My version:
Start with a 6 in the middle. Then roll each of the 8 and place them down in clockwise order. If you want to be a very nice GM, let them switch two of the dice at the end.
Maybe you can switch the final die with any other number except for the six instead.
Or just roll normally
Only works if you drop a six in the center square.
Ultimate risk/reward mode. Roll 1d20 per stat.
I prefer using 1d12+5 as my preferred method
People who complain about "too high stats" are allergic to fun, and are often DM tyrants
Let me guess, you dont dm often do you?
@@YanYanicantbelievethistakenffs Every week for the last two years. Along with several other prior years for a total of five years DM'ing. There's no such thing as "too high stats". its all relative.
What if you roll a d6 with a d10 and say 10 is anywhere but 1-9 is left to right top to bottom of the grid
That's ... a pretty cool way to roll for your attributes, but I still prefer point buy or standard array because they both guarantee that all players start out equal. Sorry, this method just doesn't do it for me. If somebody rolls a half dozen ones, twos and threes, (s)he is still basically screwed.
Everything equal and balanced is super boring. If get bad rolls then play it that way, have fun with it. You'll die in a few sessions then get to try again.
@@seekingfurtherlight34 Thank you, that is about the stupidest thing I have ever read anywhere.
@@morganpetros9635 Not a big reader then? lol. I agree with you, though. Outshining someone based on stats feels bad.
What I would do instead is have everyone at the table roll a single die -- once everyone has rolled at least one, have the DM roll the remainder to finish the grid. Everyone places their die where they want it after they roll, similar to what Ted did. Then the entire crew starts with those stats. Make a line of two 1's and a 5? Oh well, looks like everyone is getting a major dump stat.
@@commodoreblood Couldn't you still outshine someone by rolling d20s or weapon die? So shouldn't you always just take the median (11 on a d20) and call it fair and balanced?
@@commodoreblood To be fair I have been at a table where someone rolled very well and everyone else rolled pretty average and what we decided was everyone used the higher stat but got to assign them where they wanted it.
8 directions for numbers so use 1 for comliness so what do you use the 8th for. Or just cut out the 2 least amounts.
This is very cool and fun to have been thought of (might even use it in the future). But at what point do you just point buy and save the trouble haha
Yeah well you see, then you don't get a godlike character. Honestly, I feel like these videos are about trying to make an op character but trying to conceal it with convoluted dice rolling rules
I love this!!! I’m keeping this one
This is fun
WOW 👏👏👏👏🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Thank you ❤️
Forget the dice and just max out everything if that’s how you want to play.
Dice pool method still the superior rolling rubric: 24d6 divided among each stat, each needs min 3d6, juggle excess as you like.
Oh that seems balanced
Ma gonna have to steal this
(For myself dw)
Cool 😃
The fact that your lowest score is a 12 shows me that this doesn't work
So 87 is your total stats, that is a bit high for a lvl 1.
I use the 4 method,and get a 14 average roll. Used 7 different die sets to prove I wasn’t cheating
You mean the roll 4 drop the lowest
That's fun, though after almost 30 years I've come to treasure low stats in certain scores rather than being some kind of Mary sue of a PC.
Fun way to build for a power-game one off though
I know, right?! I stand by point buy for the same-ish reason. Of course, an 8 isn't the same as rolling 3 ones, but it works for role play, as well as mechanics.
His high stats there are not because of the method, he literally had
3 sixes 2 fives and 2 fours
@@xadielplasencia3674 unless you roll disastrously low across all nine dice you can game this method to produce good stats. Yes, his rolls helped but it's easy to lay them out so you get bonuses to each stat at a minimum.
@@Solnoric It does help but not that much, and Id have to crunch the numbers to know if it is better or worse than rolling 4 and dropping the lowest
I think this is my new permanent method.
This is cool
Here you go: 2d20, drop the lowest. No rerolls, no exceptions.
Wow you can almost play a viable monk with those
Just do matrices. I don't remember how but just do it
I like the inventive method, I will say that your stats are heavily dependent on whatever number is in the middle space
I think it the order/where you place them should be determined ahead of time
@@NerdImmersion I don’t think the issue is with the ability to pick positions, I think its more that the middle space and its value does a lot to dictate the quality of the result. if you roll a 1 or 2 in that position, then the average of half of the lines possible and 2 of the scores you will have to take is below 10, if the middle space is 6 as is in the example, then the average of half of the lines becomes 13, close to 4d6 drop the lowest, it might be worth making the middle a guaranteed 4 in order to keep players more even stats wise, I do like the method though
OP.
Cannot place them as you wish... otherwise this is 9d6kh3....
Roll them individually, place them IN ORDER of left to right, top to bottom, and then SELECT your line including diagonally. Do this 6 times for your Stat line, either in order (Str to Cha) or place each random stat in an attribute of your choice
I have a computer programm that I made that can graph the odds of each result so that I can compare them. How am I supposed to keep up with that ?
Skip diagonals and you’ll set with 6 numbers
Seems super swingy and likely worse than standard due to dropping lowest. 24(drop 6) dice versus 9 dice. My method got three 13s as best.
Switching the 1 and 2 would've given you very slightly better numbers.
I would use this method, but not allow the diagonals
thats a very interesting idea. i would say allowing diagonals is kinda equivalent to the roll 4d6 DISCARD 1.
it allows you to discard 2 non diagonals for diagonals.
But then wouldn't be the same as rolling 3d6 6 times?
The same people that complain that 5e creates superpowered characters are also the same people who use rolling methods like this to get superhero stats.
I click this vid to make fun of this concept, but this is actually a good idea
Colour me surprised
Welp, my last roll went: 14,12,12,10,10,10
A good way to make this more balanced might be to replace some or all of the dice with D4s
Sounds like a min max method
This would suck if I rolled 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2...
Good method but I think I would have the middle start with 4/5 regardless. Having 6 in the middle can lead to MANY stats being too high. Which does not rule out the possibility for a 18 if ya get lucky but making it much more rare
Role a d10 then plus 8
So the lowest you can get is a 9?
That's fucking stupid
Wat
Too high 😏
Why? Just why? Was just rolling the numbers too simple? We gotta play tic tac toe just to see if I get screwed again on a dice roll?
*rolls nine ones*
...huh.
I gotta say, this character would be quite boring. They're too good at everything.
Hmmmmmmm
Meh. I prefer weaker characters to be honest. It is more fun to be weak and do something great than being strong and doing something great.
I mean he rolled quite high. 3x6 a five and 3x4 gets you a long way
Then just arrange them in a weaker configuration and pick the weakest 6 lines instead. In the example rolled if you place them like so
6 5 4
6 1 4
6 4 2
The 8 lines come out as
9
10
10
11
11
12
15
18
If you pick the 6 weakest scores that is 9,10,19,11,11,12 which for 5e point buy is only 15 points worth. That is most certainly a weaker than average 5e character.
Arranged how it is done in the video in point buy would be at least 49 points (43 points would get 15,15,15,14,13,12) Considering that in 5e the first 5 points count as 1 and then the next 2 points count as 2, assuming that the pattern is followed then another 2 points would be needed to bump the 15 to a 16, 2 points for a 16 to go up to a 17 and another 2 points for a 17 to go up to a 18.
Considering that the range is at least between 15 points and 49 points worth of stats, this is a very versatile way of doing things that you can basically pick how powerful you want your character to be by placing the dice differently and picking different lines.
Why do your D6 have a line signifying the 6? There's no way to roll a 9.
Classic 3d6 for each ability score is the best. What you roll you stick with. Also no swapping ability scores. This is great for a system where each class has minimum ability scores for entry
If your character has all 6 scores below 8, so be it. You'll be stuck with no player class since you don't meet the prerequisites.
Don't worry. You won't be playing this lame duck for long. They will die in the first 10 minutes of session 1 and you'll get to roll a new character.
This seems like an easy way to get extremely strong stats. Not a big fan of this.
Sad. BECMI or bust
Lmao broken
... Why does people hate Pointbuy at such level that they start making this kind of stuff?. XD
WAY to strong
I will never understand why people don't just use point buy.
Same reason bad mobile games still make money. The human Brian is hardwired to enjoy gambling. Or to put it simple, Rolling dice is fun.
This seems it would make characters too strong
Too powerful