Hello! Thank you all for watching! And apologies for no video last week this video took me a bit more time, also as I try to keep these videos not opinionated, I may put my opinions on specific topics in these pinned comments, and with Quiver Dance being a very mixed opinion within the Metagame, I wanted to state my opinion here: Quiver Dance is not naturally “overpowered”, it is incredibly good, and alongside proper coverage it can be very annoying, but it is not specifically “overpowered”. The issue of Quiver Dance for me more so comes along with match up fishing, which is a problem the tier already has in a general sense. If you use any random Quiver Dance Mon, theres a chance that it’ll happen to beat your opponents designated special wall, or unaware Mon (as shown in the video against Dahness). It’s much like Moody in a sense for why it would be banned, as while many matches it may just fail and not do a lot, it can feel very out of a players control if it suddenly sets up and wins simply because they didn’t have a different Special wall, even if having a different one would make their team worse against any other real set. I’d personally lean more towards a Ban vote, as it feels very oppressive in the teambuilder, in a match, and counterplay can make teams feel very passive and unenjoyable, something you wouldn’t expect out of a tier with such an interesting idea.
Did you know that Quiver Dance is not naturally “overpowered”, it is incredibly good, and alongside proper coverage it can be very annoying, but it is not specifically “overpowered”. The issue of Quiver Dance for me more so comes along with match up fishing, which is a problem the tier already has in a general sense. If you use any random Quiver Dance Mon, there is a chance that it’ll happen to beat your opponents designated special wall, or unaware Mon (as shown in the video against Dahness). It’s much like Moody in a sense for why it would be banned, as while many matches it may just fail and not do a lot, it can feel very out of a players control if it suddenly sets up and wins simply because they didn’t have a different Special wall, even if having a different one would make their team worse against any other real set. I’d personally lean more towards a Ban vote, as it feels very oppressive in the teambuilder, in a match, and counterplay can make teams feel very passive and unenjoyable, something you wouldn’t expect out of a tier with such an interesting idea.
It was literally the most banned Pokemon in scarlet and violet. Since it’s usage os effectively split across 4 forms and it’s a quiver dance sweeper, every form was in a BL tier for some point in scarlet and violet
I thought I was smart and niche when I thought it up, turns out I was too late to the party 😶🌫️ I started inheritance just a few days ago and I was wondering why I couldn't use it 😭😭
Yeah Venomoth is also a very good QD abuser, I honestly forgot it got Morning Sun, it does still struggle though occasionally as there isn't a whole lot of Grass, Poison, Psychic, or Bug type Pokemon to abuse it's STAB offerings, but I'm sure theres a few Mons that can abuse it
While the defensive sets can be really cool, my go to set for hands is Punching Gloves Iron Fist SD Mach Drain Thunderpunch from Infernape, with Max Attack and Hp it just kills EVERYTHING and invalidates basically everything other than Tusk, Gliscor, Landorus, and enemy defensive Hands
I believe it should be stated for the record that Oricorio got quiver dance in gen 9, the intro felt like it implied otherwise Also pom pom oricorio is PUBL, so less of a low tier than the rest! 2:30 there are multiple pokemon that learn thunder punch and something like drain punch or brick break, its just that it can be a bit awkward to actually use offensively since its naturally vulnerable to poison and burn and its slow burn sets have to compete with fighting types that are actually fast and bring a similar level of power, like sneeze and water ursh. There is the cop out option of like iron press with garganacl as the donor, but eh, surely this can be circumvented
I actually didn't know Oricorio only recently got QD, I thought it'd had it since Gen 7, apologies lol And yeah there are a lot of Mons that can in a way benefit Iron Hands for sweeping but I mostly was just trying to use it as a segway into what limits Pokemon within the tier, apologies if it seemed a bit misleading, thanks for watching though hopefully you enjoyed :)
Inheritance to me seems to be about being able to be unexpectedly powerful off of a random Pokémon... so banning what is really just a fundamental flaw with the idea itself seems a bit of a cop out even if it is justified
I don't see how it's a fundamental flaw, "Unexpectedly Powerful" combos would be things like Bramblin and Gholdengo, Volbeat and Iron Hands. Oricorio isn't unexpected lol, it gives every Pokemon Quiver Dance, Roost, Substitute, and a guaranteed STAB through Revelation Dance. On the other hand if you're talking about banning Quiver Dance the argument still fails, we don't allow things in tiers that make them less enjoyable, or force things in an unenjoyable way. You lose a lot of the creativity behind Inh if you're forced to run a passive, more tanky team constantly, cause you have to or you'll get swept by a random QD user. But thank you for commenting, it's interesting to hear outsiders opinions on it
OTS is not a valid option for every meta and singles especially has seemed to stray away from that option. Besides, it's just one of the problems with the move out of many
It's mostly what Patrick Star said, it's a drastic change to what is a typically universal rule within singles (no OTS), for what is one singular move, and it'd still be a problem within battles cause it still has the problem of Match up fishing, something OTS wouldn't fix
Small question out of curiosity, does the teir make a distinction between a pokemon as a Donor and a Recipient? For instance if i were absolutely insane would i be able to run a Recipient Oricorio after the ban, with its Donor being something like Magnazone, to use Oricorio-Fire as a Magnet Pull mon?
It sadly does not, though it would be interesting if the tier did I believe it's a part of the coding aspect for the tier. But sadly you can not use Oricorio, even as an inheritor. To offput this though, Magnet Pull itself is actually banned as it was decided very overpowered since you don't know what a Mon is inheriting from until it hits the field, and it would make it very hard to validate using any steel type when you're unsure if any time you send it out if you're sending it to it's doom, thanks for watching :)
@@EvelynIsBased thank you for the answer, and also yeah banning Magnet Pull sounds right considering it was the first thing i could think of to give Oricorio a niche
Bramblin and Brambleghast have the same (or a very similar), movepool, when inheriting from a Evolution line with the same Movepool, it will take from the first in the Pokedex, and as such will typically take from the lowest in the evolution line.
So you know how VGC has open team sheets now to avoid surprise strategies that can cheese random wins? This format is like making closed team sheets even more obscured. The cheese is baked into the format from its very nature, something else has to give or degenerate strategies are just going to get worse.
Hello! Thank you all for watching! And apologies for no video last week this video took me a bit more time, also as I try to keep these videos not opinionated, I may put my opinions on specific topics in these pinned comments, and with Quiver Dance being a very mixed opinion within the Metagame, I wanted to state my opinion here:
Quiver Dance is not naturally “overpowered”, it is incredibly good, and alongside proper coverage it can be very annoying, but it is not specifically “overpowered”. The issue of Quiver Dance for me more so comes along with match up fishing, which is a problem the tier already has in a general sense. If you use any random Quiver Dance Mon, theres a chance that it’ll happen to beat your opponents designated special wall, or unaware Mon (as shown in the video against Dahness). It’s much like Moody in a sense for why it would be banned, as while many matches it may just fail and not do a lot, it can feel very out of a players control if it suddenly sets up and wins simply because they didn’t have a different Special wall, even if having a different one would make their team worse against any other real set. I’d personally lean more towards a Ban vote, as it feels very oppressive in the teambuilder, in a match, and counterplay can make teams feel very passive and unenjoyable, something you wouldn’t expect out of a tier with such an interesting idea.
Did you know that Quiver Dance is not naturally “overpowered”, it is incredibly good, and alongside proper coverage it can be very annoying, but it is not specifically “overpowered”. The issue of Quiver Dance for me more so comes along with match up fishing, which is a problem the tier already has in a general sense. If you use any random Quiver Dance Mon, there is a chance that it’ll happen to beat your opponents designated special wall, or unaware Mon (as shown in the video against Dahness). It’s much like Moody in a sense for why it would be banned, as while many matches it may just fail and not do a lot, it can feel very out of a players control if it suddenly sets up and wins simply because they didn’t have a different Special wall, even if having a different one would make their team worse against any other real set. I’d personally lean more towards a Ban vote, as it feels very oppressive in the teambuilder, in a match, and counterplay can make teams feel very passive and unenjoyable, something you wouldn’t expect out of a tier with such an interesting idea.
@cacophony5642 This is a shocking fact, my brain is bestowed with knowledge
1
❤ 😂6:23 😅
Me running mixed lando to bait goodras having never faced an oricorio inheritor mon and not even aware any of this was happening:
Yeah Oricorio's ban happened so fast after it was discovered it barely even got to Ladder before it got shut down from the tier lol
Thank you evelyn for explaining why oricorio was banned from inheritance
the one tier ever where "ban oricorio" wasn't a joke
I'm pretty sure every Oricorio form has been banned from at least 1 lower tier this generation
It was literally the most banned Pokemon in scarlet and violet. Since it’s usage os effectively split across 4 forms and it’s a quiver dance sweeper, every form was in a BL tier for some point in scarlet and violet
Partners in crime banned it really quickly
i can't believe the dancing bird has been banned in inheritance on pokemon showdown. this is insane.
Insane indeed, Dancing Bird fans are in shambles.
Oricorio has been cheated out of her inheritance by Old Money
this is insane
I thought I was smart and niche when I thought it up, turns out I was too late to the party 😶🌫️
I started inheritance just a few days ago and I was wondering why I couldn't use it 😭😭
Trust me lol everyone has these experiences playing OM's, I'll think I'm mad creative and then see "---- is Banned"
But venomoth has morning sun + QV tinted lens to help with stabs
Yeah Venomoth is also a very good QD abuser, I honestly forgot it got Morning Sun, it does still struggle though occasionally as there isn't a whole lot of Grass, Poison, Psychic, or Bug type Pokemon to abuse it's STAB offerings, but I'm sure theres a few Mons that can abuse it
@@EvelynIsBasedtapu lele could prob go nuts with tinted lens qd
Oricorio is a very interesting pokemon, introduced back in Gen 7
True fact, hard to believe it honestly
It and its variants have always been quite underwhelming despite the many unique and quite good aspects provided by using them
While the defensive sets can be really cool, my go to set for hands is Punching Gloves Iron Fist SD Mach Drain Thunderpunch from Infernape, with Max Attack and Hp it just kills EVERYTHING and invalidates basically everything other than Tusk, Gliscor, Landorus, and enemy defensive Hands
dude its so wild watching yt videos and seeing ppl i know being in the smogon community is wild
It’s always fun to hear a Pokémon I like is doing good
I'm always amazed by how deep and complicated even off metas are for this video game for children. Love your videos, always a highlight of the day!
Thank you :)
waiter! waiter! more videos on low tier mons being banned from random oms please
i stole this comment from a meme on your reddit post of this vid
That shiny Iron Hands is an affront to my eyes. That Lati is GORGEOUS tho
Love your vids btw❤
I believe it should be stated for the record that Oricorio got quiver dance in gen 9, the intro felt like it implied otherwise
Also pom pom oricorio is PUBL, so less of a low tier than the rest!
2:30 there are multiple pokemon that learn thunder punch and something like drain punch or brick break, its just that it can be a bit awkward to actually use offensively since its naturally vulnerable to poison and burn and its slow burn sets have to compete with fighting types that are actually fast and bring a similar level of power, like sneeze and water ursh. There is the cop out option of like iron press with garganacl as the donor, but eh, surely this can be circumvented
I actually didn't know Oricorio only recently got QD, I thought it'd had it since Gen 7, apologies lol
And yeah there are a lot of Mons that can in a way benefit Iron Hands for sweeping but I mostly was just trying to use it as a segway into what limits Pokemon within the tier, apologies if it seemed a bit misleading, thanks for watching though hopefully you enjoyed :)
Inheritance to me seems to be about being able to be unexpectedly powerful off of a random Pokémon... so banning what is really just a fundamental flaw with the idea itself seems a bit of a cop out even if it is justified
Good thing you're wrong about why Interitance exists then.
I don't see how it's a fundamental flaw, "Unexpectedly Powerful" combos would be things like Bramblin and Gholdengo, Volbeat and Iron Hands. Oricorio isn't unexpected lol, it gives every Pokemon Quiver Dance, Roost, Substitute, and a guaranteed STAB through Revelation Dance.
On the other hand if you're talking about banning Quiver Dance the argument still fails, we don't allow things in tiers that make them less enjoyable, or force things in an unenjoyable way. You lose a lot of the creativity behind Inh if you're forced to run a passive, more tanky team constantly, cause you have to or you'll get swept by a random QD user. But thank you for commenting, it's interesting to hear outsiders opinions on it
if the problem with other quiver dance pokémon is that you can't predict when they'll show up, why not use an open team sheet like VGC?
OTS is not a valid option for every meta and singles especially has seemed to stray away from that option. Besides, it's just one of the problems with the move out of many
It's mostly what Patrick Star said, it's a drastic change to what is a typically universal rule within singles (no OTS), for what is one singular move, and it'd still be a problem within battles cause it still has the problem of Match up fishing, something OTS wouldn't fix
Small question out of curiosity, does the teir make a distinction between a pokemon as a Donor and a Recipient? For instance if i were absolutely insane would i be able to run a Recipient Oricorio after the ban, with its Donor being something like Magnazone, to use Oricorio-Fire as a Magnet Pull mon?
It sadly does not, though it would be interesting if the tier did I believe it's a part of the coding aspect for the tier. But sadly you can not use Oricorio, even as an inheritor.
To offput this though, Magnet Pull itself is actually banned as it was decided very overpowered since you don't know what a Mon is inheriting from until it hits the field, and it would make it very hard to validate using any steel type when you're unsure if any time you send it out if you're sending it to it's doom, thanks for watching :)
@@EvelynIsBased thank you for the answer, and also yeah banning Magnet Pull sounds right considering it was the first thing i could think of to give Oricorio a niche
while watching this video I got oricorio in random battles while showdown LOL
Oricorio in Randbats is peak
Great vid
not Evelyn calling a game only two generations old “back from” /lighthearted
This reminded me that X&Y is almost 11 years old and that hit me like a mental shock lol
@@EvelynIsBased oh noooooo
Why inheriting from bramblin and not brambleghast tho? Is It banned?
Bramblin and Brambleghast have the same (or a very similar), movepool, when inheriting from a Evolution line with the same Movepool, it will take from the first in the Pokedex, and as such will typically take from the lowest in the evolution line.
4:43 lmao oricorio not having a "no" option
SHE WASNT LYING
THAT EVELYN SURE CAN BASED
open team sheet?
This pokemon always pissed me off just by looking at it.
omggg ur voice
So you know how VGC has open team sheets now to avoid surprise strategies that can cheese random wins? This format is like making closed team sheets even more obscured. The cheese is baked into the format from its very nature, something else has to give or degenerate strategies are just going to get worse.
VGC started using open team sheets to prevent certain players from getting an unfair advantage by scouting opponents’ teams during tournaments
Birb