Hey! Thanks for watching, hopefully this video is good I've been really busy with school, family, and general life stuff so I had to pull a few all nighters to get this out, but hopefully y'all still enjoy, and thanks for watching :)
Yeah it did basically mirror Lugias Fall, as it got tons worse in SwSh Ho-Oh finally started thriving, then we go to gen 9 and Ho-Oh is one of the best Ubers and Lugia isn't even on the list basically lol
I think it won't fall, even with it's piss poor offenses it could do super great as a set up sweeper with the lower offenses in OU, not to mention it's still, especially for OU, great tanking abilities.
It's like a bulkier Scream Tail with better offenses to boot. Air Slash/Earth Power hits pretty much any relevant threat, and it could dump speed to go Curse + Dual Wingbeat/Earthquake. A psychic noise set could flatline stall too
Honestly, they should've kept the frostbite condition cause like, can you imagine Aeroblast being a mirror to Sacred Fire but with frostbite? Mons like Miraidon and Kyorge would have to think twice than to switch in.
I think on paper this is a good idea, but sadly Lugias lack of good offensive stats, and ability to be broken so quickly by most other Ubers would hold it back from using even Frostbite Aeroblast effectively, though that is a really cool idea
@EvelynIsBased Yeah, I see Lugia more like "OP wall" than "meh bulky attacker." I feel like if it got Toxic and Thunder Wave back in addition to some utility moves like Knock Off, it would be so much better. I always felt like Uber is missing that defensive pressure since most legendaries are by design to be overly strong. But when it comes to the more overly "unbreakable," they kinda suck lol (rip Terapagos, could've been the best spinner in the tier).
@EvelynIsBased But adjusting the old legendaries' stats by a bit would help a lot so you don't have to create a new form each time in the future to keep up with the newer legendaries.
Once they start redistributing the stats of older mons (or rather, _if_ they ever do so), Lugia is my first Legendary pick to give a revamp to its offenses. From both its showing in the movie (which it actually was originally made for) and its dex entries in the games, Lugia is definitely _not_ meant to be a passive mon. Tell me why a Legendary that is so powerful that a single flap of its wings can cause a 40 day storm has a weaker Hurricane than freaking _Masquerain._ (The answer is probably because Game Freak still had PTSD with the Psychic type during Gen 2's development, so they nerfed the hell out of Lugia's offenses so if the Dark and Steel types being added didn't work, then Lugia would at least still be manageable). An easy fix would be to take 20 points from its Attack and put it into its Sp. Atk. An offensive stat as low as 70 may seem weird for a Legendary, but Spectrier and Urshifu are things that exist, so it'll probably be fine. Lugia is out here already setting records for cover Legendaries anyways with both of its offensive stats being as low as 90. Then they should also buff Aeroblast. Make it 120 bp and 100% accurate, or at least give it 10 base PP so _Air Slash_ isn't being picked over it. "But then Ho-oh will be-" Nah. Sacred Fire and Aeroblast were never equals. A 50% chance to Burn is unquantifiably better than an 8.33% (6.25% before Gen 7) higher crit chance. Plus, come Gen 4 Sacred Fire was coming off of a base 130 Attack stat while Aeroblast came off of a base 90 Sp. Atk stat. Lugia's main issue is that it has a passive stat spread, but the lore, and thus Game Freak, _don't want it to be passive._ So they remove moves like Toxic and Thunder Wave from its moveset, as well as universally nerf Recover (and it doesn't even learn Roost in Gen 9...). But if they're going to do that, then they should at least give it the respect of a boost to its offenses at the same time. If they end up making it into the ultimate Calm Mind cheeser, then at least give it that instead of forcing it to eat hits and prolong games while simultaneously having an 8 PP signature move.
I entirely agree with all of this honestly, they dislike how passive it is, but rather than give it buffs to make it a bulky offense user, they just remove it's movepool. Aeroblast is useless, especially coming off it's awful SpA, it can't find good times to heal, and it's not bulky enough to even be the best tank in Ubers anymore, even if it had toxic or twave.
A bad typing, awkward offensive stats/move pool, an Ability reliant on being at an HP it will never be at unless it has HDB for Gen 8-9, and really good hazard removal support in older Gens. All of this really kept getting more and more exposed as the surrounding power level went up. Every good team has coverage to hit it without trying, and in return you get status support that you might not even see the benifits from if the game is short. If you go for Calm Mind I feel like at best it staves off an Arceus form from doing to much in a stale mate, and at worst it barely takes down an opponents Pokemon before getting forced into Roost spam or an outright 2 hit KO.
I always forget how weak Lugia really is. It's definitely a hold over from GameFreak overbalancing the Psychic type which I'd argue it never actually needed to be nerfed as hard as it was with Dark and Steel since those two typings have been a problem every since they were introduced. I'm still baffled by how Gen 6 removed Steel's resistance to Ghost and Dark but kept the Psychic resist.
Yeah, Lugia was definitely held back due to Psychic types being so potent in early gens, and with Psychic being one of the worst types now, Lugia is really feeling that burn off
You forgot one important job Lugia also performed in ADV ubers. Choice Band. And you probably need to mention how good it is in Sun Stall. Rain is actually a mid style in Adv Ubers
Thank you for the comment, I wasn't super aware of the Gen 3 Metagame at the time of making this video so I wasn't super aware of exactly everything so I guess I was bound to miss some stuff, thank you for putting some extra info in :)
We need Primal Lugia. Mega Lugia. Lugia Origin Form. Shadow Lugia even. Lugia is struggling and a new form would really help justify some of the changes that Lugia really needs.
Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like a lot of transformations would be a nerf for it, as it loses Multiscale. But maybe the type change/stat boosts would outweigh it
Ironically Multiscale is actually not very good for it in the first place, keeping Multiscale up is almost impossible for it to do with hazard damage, and it forces a tank to constantly be at full HP, which isn't really great. I think Red Orbs massive SpA boost and immunity to water attacks (as well as nerfing thunders accuracy) is way too beneficial to put down, especially over Multiscale.
Probably because Lugia is fairly weak compared to other ubers mons and is much more bulky instead, meaning it's much better used on stall teams, which have dwindled in viability since gen 2 ubers. In gens 7-9, though, stall is incredibly uncommon due to pretty extreme power creep. Especially with the loss of Toxic and nerf of Recover, not even Boots can keep it afloat this time. It's always been a mon with a very specific role, that role being less needed over time as the playstyle that role fits on continues to get worse. Edit: I had no clue it lost Thunder Wave as well. So it's basically just a wall that's a sitting duck. Damn
Another thing too is that Psychic as a defensive typing is pretty ass most of the time. Weak to the commonly spammed offenses of Dark and Ghost (notably Knock Off), weak to Bug / U-turn pivoting (in Lugia's case it's thankfully a neutrality), only resists itself and Fighting. Compare that to Fairy, which sports the same Fighting resist, Dark and Bug resistances instead of weaknesses, a complete immunity to Dragon, and on top of that, only two weaknesses to types that aren't too spamable offensively. You need to bring something really impressive to the table if you want to work as a defensive Psychic. I think the absolute quickest way to fix Lugia would be to swap out Multiscale for basically any other defensive ability. Multiscale realistically is kinda overkill in the best case scenario, doesn't synergize with Lugia nearly as well as Dragonite, who punishes you for being too passive. Magic Guard or Magic Bounce would help the most I'd imagine
Magic Guard would be quite interesting, allows life orb sets to back up poor offenses, removes stealth rock weakness, doesn't allow it to be toxiced, would actually let it set up. I'd love to see them give it something like that
That would even make some sense. Lugia is a powerful flying guardian of the sea. Who would imagine stealth rocks, toxic damage, and other stuff would casually hurt it? Lugia feels like a Pokémon that should be directly attacked to hurt it. It should be styled as a long-range powerful Pokémon, not a bulky Pokémon that otherwise can’t do stuff with its compromised bulk.
i wish they would acutally nerf broken pokemon instead of an already failing legendary, like toxic and thunder wave was the only thing lugia really had its just dead meat now
I definitely see where that's coming from, I hope if we ever get a legends game for gen 2 we can get another Lugia form that's better without dropping it's niche as a defensive legend
I can only think of a few ways to save Lugia, and I doubt any will happen. Also, it probably needs multiple of these: -Make it Water/Flying -Give it Scald -Give it Stored Power -Make Aeroblast inflict Frostbite or something else really strong -Make Aeroblast 10 pp -Make Aeroblast 120 bp -Give Lugia some stupid good ability like Magic Guard, Regenerator, or Poison Heal instead of Multiscale -Give back lost moves -Give it Knock Off -Give it Flip Turn or U-Turn -Flip the defenses and offenses 😂 -Give it Power Trick or a Special Attack equivalent
I think out of these, Scald, Stored Power, All Aeroblast buffs, and a new ability in Magic Guard would really help Lugia, and put it far more on par with other legendaries, even if still below them.
In Gen 8 VGC my most successful team involved abusing speed control to let Kyogre wreak havoc. The two legendaries I used were Kyogre and Lugia, and my core non legendaries were Indeedee-m and Drifblim. Basically, psychic surge activated Drifblims unburden with psychic seed, and Drifblim then set up tailwind to let Indeedee-m move second with choice specs psychic surge or something else. Lugia also used dmax aeroblast to boost kyogres speed for water spout, but the amount of times I won with opponents activating its weakness policy meant it proved more useful than Kyogre in a lot of situations. It also used a calm mind set with roost and earth power, which synergized perfectly with unburden Drifblims strenth sap + will-o-wisp. The amount of dark weak pokemon on the team also baited out Incin a lot, but the only target for him to click knock off against was Indeedee-m, since Drifblim had strength sap and instantly used its item, and Lugia ran weakness policy.
i LOVE gen 2 and their remakes. heart gold made ho-oh my favorite between it and lugia, but i do feel bad for the ladder as power creep grew more and more potent.
one minor fix would be to make Aeroblast crit 100% of the time. coming off a 90sp.atk stat this wouldnt be too broken and it would give lugia a niche + winning mu against opposing calm mind users
This would certainly help make CM a fair bit more viable, but it also then runs into the issue of having to deal with the consequences of an 8PP move, which when coupled with the aforementioned 90 Sp. Atk, though solid, just leaves it struggling to stand out as an attacker. Still, it’d help carve out that niche vs. opposing CM, for sure! It’s clearly been fine defensively (in large part), so I also feel like it needs to do something more for its team, than to just sit there. Teleport might be amazing for it… but what if it was a signature that also recovered 20-25% of its HP? Too easy, boring, or reminiscent of Regen Teleporters in the Slow family? Yeah… admittedly so. But honestly, a move like this can instantly make it far less of a momentum sink, at least. Tailwind + Teleport signature is a somewhat insane move, but hilarious idea nonetheless that may also ruin VGC in the process. If Ho-oh *has* to get something as well, then they can also get… a physical Flying Hex, or something. Lmao… let’s be real, though. Lugia’s the one who needs the help, not Ho-oh.
I'd make it 80bp but phaze with normal priority and can't be used consecutively. Which yeah... makes this move really broken as anything Lugia outspeeds can just get yeeted by it (while making sure it's incompatible with Gholdengo)
Breaking News: Gholdengo stocks rise in Ubers, OU economy fails But nah that's actually not an awful idea, balanced by not being able to be used twice is good, low damage, but still though sadly the issues remain for what makes Lugia bad, even if it can force pivots really well with that
@@EvelynIsBased it did well despite being in a tier with Calyrex Shadow. The stall team in question was for gen 8 national dex AG. Mega Sableye/Quagsire/Tyranitar/Chansey/Lugia/Giratina-A It achieved over 97gxe
This is true, in Gen 6 it was ranked as a B Tier mon, when gen 7 rolled around I think it fell somewhere around C-, it's just way outclassed after gen 7
I'd like this but I do worry about them just changing Lugia to be offensive and removing it's niche of being a defensive legendary, rather than finding a way to make it good.
@@EvelynIsBased unfortunately unless there's a massive power nerf I don't know if lugia will ever be great defensively again. Psychic/Flying has only gotten worse defensively with time, ghost and dark keep getting better offensively, and gamefreak has constantly introduced more powerful min maxed mons each gen.
The only problem with Lugia is that its special attack and speed base stats should have been switched. Lugia being able to take advantage of a base 110 special attack stat means it is not forced to be a fast wall.
i wish they rework lugia simular too its anime version. it is stated it can gets stronger the angrier it gets, maybe they can make aeroblast work simular too rage fist
Even with Miraidon soon being (maybe) banned I don't think it'll change how good it is after, Lugia just kinda sucks now lol, power creep hits it way hard. Even in Nat Dex Ubers it's not super great, D rank by almost every Viability Ranking, and countered by half the best mons in the tier, Primal Groudon, Yveltal, Necrozma, just a tough outlook for Lugia overall sadly
Mewtwo, the birds,Lugia,Ho-oh, the beasts, Dialga, Palkia and Giratina, etc not having proper signature abilities feels extremely wonky when other box cover legendaries do. (With some of them being downright broken). I also think it is goofy how Lugia is a defensive oriented legendary Pokemon stat wise, sure it makes it stand out but in every other gen with box cover legendaries one is physical and the other is special other than like Zacian and Zamazenta, but that is a different issue.
I think some of these mons have fine uses even without Signature abilities, see Moltres Flame Body, Zapdos Static, both are great, Ho-Oh having Regenerator is great. I think here it's just an issue of Lugia being bad because Multiscale sucks for it, it doesn't use it well. Mewtwo also could do with another ability though I agree with that, especially for Palkia and Dialga too.
@@EvelynIsBased Yeah, but I feel like Ho-oh and Lugia should have better abilities and Lugia should have stats swapped around. Mewtwo, Palkia, Dialga and Giratina you'd think would have downright broken abilities as well, tbf.
Agreed on Mewtwo, and the creation trio, but Ho-Oh is one of the top Ubers, I worry changing it ability would actually make it worse, it's ability to pivot into strong attackers, deal damage, and swap back out and in with more health is half of it's niche, on top of its great use of recoil moves without having to worry about over doing recoil damage due to regenerator
@@EvelynIsBased I could see that, but I think you could give it an ability like regenerator a little bit more specific to Ho-oh that still works, but maybe more busted.
If it got follow me it'd be a lot better. That way it can use its ability to really tank that first phase, allowing sweepers to set up for snowballing.
Give him a Mega Evolution with same method of evolving Mega Ray just let Lugia equipped its signature Aeroblast to Mega Evolve. Its stat will be like this HP - 106 ATK - 90 -20 = 70 DEF - 130 +20 = 150 SP.ATK - 90 +50 = 140 SP.DEF - 154 +40 = 194 SPD - 110 +10 = 120 Its ability is Mythical Wing which gives priority to every flying type moves and increases all flying type move damages by 20%. It also neutralize every super effective hits to its flying typing. And when it's send out in the battle during the 1st phase it will destroy any hazard moves to its own field. My setup will be like this Bold Nature HP - 240 EV DEF - 252 EV SPEED - 16EV Item - Leftover Moveset Calm Mind Roost Aeroblast Earth Power Let it setup calm mind during his normal form with Multiscale ability and then after 2-3 calm minds Mega Evolve it and wreck everything with Priority move Aeroblast +20% additional damage
Think this all makes good sense and checks out, though breaking hazards after coming in first phase doesn't make a lot of sense, Multiscale doesn't do that for any other mon so unless we wanna buff Dragonite with that, which I don't think we should, it can keep the weakness to Rocks, especially with how good that mega evolution is. Overall that would make it an insane calm mind sweeper, especially late game, would probably be overwhelming to Ubers, but also a possibility of it not being, especially if things like Miraidon aren't banned.
I would give Lugia a new signature ability in Mastery: This pokemon's offensive stat is multiplied by 1.5 when using STAB. Okay tbh i don't think it'll fix anything, the metas are too anti psychic and flying for its own good, I just want an excuse to toss out Aeroblasts and Psycho Boosts.
Yeah probably won't fix much, especially given Base Power multipliers typically outdo stat multipliers, hence why Adaptability is such a good ability. Hitting a 260 Draco Meteor off of 90 SpA is typically better than hitting a 130 Draco Meteor off a higher SpA
Lugia sucks outside of Gen 9 because it has an identity crisis in its overall Pokemon design - it has the stats of a wall, but a horrible defensive typing and support movepool. only whirlwind and toxic are really useful. psychic/flying is one of the worst type combinations defensively, and Lugia has a signature move that is an attack, and it's a good move - but only backed by 90 special attack, pitiful by Ubers standards. i honestly think lugia could be allowed in past gen OU metagames and it would not cause issues. it's just a worse toxapex. if black kyurem was ever allowed in OU, lugia pre gen 9 could be OU too
Lol it could not be allowed it past OU gens and be okay unless we're talking Gen 8, and even that'd be problematic as it'd slow down games a lot, and frankly tiers are balanced by enjoyment, we don't want Lugia to come in and be the sitting duck Mon and make you wait a millennium to win. But no, I mean hell it wasn't C tier until gen 8, in Gen 7 Ubers it's B tier I believe, Gen 6 it's A-, it's not great as on offensive mon, but it is a great tank that is outclassed in Ubers. It does not belong in OU, as it simply would not be enjoyable, it's a worse stall mon than Toxapex, but not a worse offensive one
@@EvelynIsBased Tbh, the volume of said sound effects could also just be lowered, so it’s more of a “background” sound effect. Distracts from your words a lot less
Actually kinda enjoy the gen 8 Metagame, though 9 can be annoying due to Terastilization kinda making Hyper Offense king, but new tools like Ogerpon Water, Tusk, and old things like Lando and Gliscor are still good options to slow it. Anyways 6 fucking ground types in OU moment
I think gen 7s meta is the most balanced as it's the most controlled. Mega in of itself is "broken" but since we can see which Megas in particular are broken, we can ban those Megas, and leave ones that are fair to roam the tier. You can't really do that with something like Terastilization since it's universal and the same for each pokemon. Banning Tera for a pokemon isn't possible so we just ban the Pokemon, and banning Tera leaves the Meta in most people's eyes fairly uninteresting. It's honestly the core reason why Mega evolution has always been my favorite competitively.
lugia's bad but calling it the worst in a world where artikuno exists (even if now it's good in vgc) there's also other legendaries like silvally and wo chien who are so forgettable and just bad they deserve the spot way more
Lugias most notably bad at least, it's a box art legendary with a box art legendary BST of 680, Wo-Chien, while technically a legendary, has a BST of 580, and Sivally, while also technically a legendary, has a BST of 570, I mostly titled it under the idea of an actual box art legendary, rather than pokemon who "technically" fall under the requirements
Articuno and Regice should also be noted as Pokémon who did as badly as Lugia. Heck, Articuno can be doubly noted because Articuno’s Galarian counterpart is also Psychic/Flying and also is therefore the worst of the Galarian birds by default. Also, Kantonian Articuno isn’t even good in general: Rillaboom and Dragons and Landorus is good, Snow buffs defense, and Articuno only has an evasion-boosting ability. Articuno is literally now conditionally good in balance metas where Rillaboom, Dragons, and Landorus are rampant and counters are pressured away. While that is a pretty common state, it still isn’t the state of literally any Landorus-I. Also, it was good in Gen 8 UU stall for some reason.
@iantaakalla8180 Might make a video about Articuno in singles, but this video was meant to be about Box art legendarys, or just ones with BSTs above or at 600. Articuno and Regice imo aren't really notably bad, as they already just have the BST of any normal Pokemon with poorly optimized stats.
Hey! Thanks for watching, hopefully this video is good I've been really busy with school, family, and general life stuff so I had to pull a few all nighters to get this out, but hopefully y'all still enjoy, and thanks for watching :)
Don’t stress yourself too much making content but great video keep up the good work
Funny how Ho-oh got better throughout the generations. Mirroring Lugia’s fall
Yeah it did basically mirror Lugias Fall, as it got tons worse in SwSh Ho-Oh finally started thriving, then we go to gen 9 and Ho-Oh is one of the best Ubers and Lugia isn't even on the list basically lol
@@EvelynIsBasedhell even in UUbers it's bad.. Worse than mons like reshiram which is usually outclassed by chi yu and white kyurem
Even funnier considering Ho-Oh relies on Heavy-Duty Boots for avoiding its 4x stealth rock weakness and STILL does better than Lugia
@@VixstraLargewell lugia needs boots more to keep multiscale
Needs and wants it but can't run it lol, leftovers is superior for it
Lugia not beating those OU allegations after those nerfs
I wouldn't be surprised to see a test for it in OU at least
I think it won't fall, even with it's piss poor offenses it could do super great as a set up sweeper with the lower offenses in OU, not to mention it's still, especially for OU, great tanking abilities.
@EvelynIsBased Too weak for UUbers, yet still too strong for OU. Time for them to make an RUbers.
@@EvelynIsBasedI wouldn't be surprised to see a test later regardless
It's like a bulkier Scream Tail with better offenses to boot. Air Slash/Earth Power hits pretty much any relevant threat, and it could dump speed to go Curse + Dual Wingbeat/Earthquake. A psychic noise set could flatline stall too
honestly i expect lugia to fall to OU some generation. just needs a little bit more power creep.
lugia is already just a worse toxapex as it is
Honestly, they should've kept the frostbite condition cause like, can you imagine Aeroblast being a mirror to Sacred Fire but with frostbite? Mons like Miraidon and Kyorge would have to think twice than to switch in.
I think on paper this is a good idea, but sadly Lugias lack of good offensive stats, and ability to be broken so quickly by most other Ubers would hold it back from using even Frostbite Aeroblast effectively, though that is a really cool idea
@EvelynIsBased Yeah, I see Lugia more like "OP wall" than "meh bulky attacker." I feel like if it got Toxic and Thunder Wave back in addition to some utility moves like Knock Off, it would be so much better. I always felt like Uber is missing that defensive pressure since most legendaries are by design to be overly strong. But when it comes to the more overly "unbreakable," they kinda suck lol (rip Terapagos, could've been the best spinner in the tier).
@EvelynIsBased But adjusting the old legendaries' stats by a bit would help a lot so you don't have to create a new form each time in the future to keep up with the newer legendaries.
Once they start redistributing the stats of older mons (or rather, _if_ they ever do so), Lugia is my first Legendary pick to give a revamp to its offenses. From both its showing in the movie (which it actually was originally made for) and its dex entries in the games, Lugia is definitely _not_ meant to be a passive mon. Tell me why a Legendary that is so powerful that a single flap of its wings can cause a 40 day storm has a weaker Hurricane than freaking _Masquerain._ (The answer is probably because Game Freak still had PTSD with the Psychic type during Gen 2's development, so they nerfed the hell out of Lugia's offenses so if the Dark and Steel types being added didn't work, then Lugia would at least still be manageable).
An easy fix would be to take 20 points from its Attack and put it into its Sp. Atk. An offensive stat as low as 70 may seem weird for a Legendary, but Spectrier and Urshifu are things that exist, so it'll probably be fine. Lugia is out here already setting records for cover Legendaries anyways with both of its offensive stats being as low as 90.
Then they should also buff Aeroblast. Make it 120 bp and 100% accurate, or at least give it 10 base PP so _Air Slash_ isn't being picked over it. "But then Ho-oh will be-" Nah. Sacred Fire and Aeroblast were never equals. A 50% chance to Burn is unquantifiably better than an 8.33% (6.25% before Gen 7) higher crit chance. Plus, come Gen 4 Sacred Fire was coming off of a base 130 Attack stat while Aeroblast came off of a base 90 Sp. Atk stat.
Lugia's main issue is that it has a passive stat spread, but the lore, and thus Game Freak, _don't want it to be passive._ So they remove moves like Toxic and Thunder Wave from its moveset, as well as universally nerf Recover (and it doesn't even learn Roost in Gen 9...). But if they're going to do that, then they should at least give it the respect of a boost to its offenses at the same time. If they end up making it into the ultimate Calm Mind cheeser, then at least give it that instead of forcing it to eat hits and prolong games while simultaneously having an 8 PP signature move.
I entirely agree with all of this honestly, they dislike how passive it is, but rather than give it buffs to make it a bulky offense user, they just remove it's movepool. Aeroblast is useless, especially coming off it's awful SpA, it can't find good times to heal, and it's not bulky enough to even be the best tank in Ubers anymore, even if it had toxic or twave.
Could be spicy if the add frostbite to gen 10, give Aeroblast a 50% proc chance, and slap it on Articuno too 👀
VGC in tears with the Articuno buffs 😭
Lugia is my favorite legendary, sad to see the homie struggle like this
Lugias one of my favorites too, sad to see them strip it of every move it could have and just push it worse each gen
A bad typing, awkward offensive stats/move pool, an Ability reliant on being at an HP it will never be at unless it has HDB for Gen 8-9, and really good hazard removal support in older Gens. All of this really kept getting more and more exposed as the surrounding power level went up. Every good team has coverage to hit it without trying, and in return you get status support that you might not even see the benifits from if the game is short. If you go for Calm Mind I feel like at best it staves off an Arceus form from doing to much in a stale mate, and at worst it barely takes down an opponents Pokemon before getting forced into Roost spam or an outright 2 hit KO.
I always forget how weak Lugia really is. It's definitely a hold over from GameFreak overbalancing the Psychic type which I'd argue it never actually needed to be nerfed as hard as it was with Dark and Steel since those two typings have been a problem every since they were introduced.
I'm still baffled by how Gen 6 removed Steel's resistance to Ghost and Dark but kept the Psychic resist.
Yeah, Lugia was definitely held back due to Psychic types being so potent in early gens, and with Psychic being one of the worst types now, Lugia is really feeling that burn off
Yeah with the most iconic interaction of psychic vs steel being the abra line bending spoons, it seems odd for steel to resist psychic.
You forgot one important job Lugia also performed in ADV ubers. Choice Band. And you probably need to mention how good it is in Sun Stall. Rain is actually a mid style in Adv Ubers
Thank you for the comment, I wasn't super aware of the Gen 3 Metagame at the time of making this video so I wasn't super aware of exactly everything so I guess I was bound to miss some stuff, thank you for putting some extra info in :)
poor luiga... get well soon luigi... :
We need Primal Lugia. Mega Lugia. Lugia Origin Form. Shadow Lugia even. Lugia is struggling and a new form would really help justify some of the changes that Lugia really needs.
Thank you Normal type from popular video game franchise, Pokemon, I agree. But nah seriously a Primal Lugia would be sick
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed :)
Lugia is so mid that in the mix and mega metagame, it is allowed to mega evolve as if it weren't an uber along with fellow mid psychic solgaleo.
I've actually played a bit of that tier lol, it's not even good still if I remember, right?
@@EvelynIsBased I use it with a red orb, it's actually ok but I can't say the same for higher than 1400 elo games
Solgaleo is much more offensive and the signature move is so good
Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like a lot of transformations would be a nerf for it, as it loses Multiscale. But maybe the type change/stat boosts would outweigh it
Ironically Multiscale is actually not very good for it in the first place, keeping Multiscale up is almost impossible for it to do with hazard damage, and it forces a tank to constantly be at full HP, which isn't really great. I think Red Orbs massive SpA boost and immunity to water attacks (as well as nerfing thunders accuracy) is way too beneficial to put down, especially over Multiscale.
Probably because Lugia is fairly weak compared to other ubers mons and is much more bulky instead, meaning it's much better used on stall teams, which have dwindled in viability since gen 2 ubers. In gens 7-9, though, stall is incredibly uncommon due to pretty extreme power creep. Especially with the loss of Toxic and nerf of Recover, not even Boots can keep it afloat this time. It's always been a mon with a very specific role, that role being less needed over time as the playstyle that role fits on continues to get worse.
Edit: I had no clue it lost Thunder Wave as well. So it's basically just a wall that's a sitting duck. Damn
Gotta love the sitting duck legendary, truly peak Game Freak design
On the other hand, Articuno is no longer the sitting bird legendary.
That STS music at end is just 🔥
Im glad im not into comp, i get to enjoy Lugia. Pokemon 2000 is the main reason why it wont be topped.
Another thing too is that Psychic as a defensive typing is pretty ass most of the time. Weak to the commonly spammed offenses of Dark and Ghost (notably Knock Off), weak to Bug / U-turn pivoting (in Lugia's case it's thankfully a neutrality), only resists itself and Fighting. Compare that to Fairy, which sports the same Fighting resist, Dark and Bug resistances instead of weaknesses, a complete immunity to Dragon, and on top of that, only two weaknesses to types that aren't too spamable offensively. You need to bring something really impressive to the table if you want to work as a defensive Psychic. I think the absolute quickest way to fix Lugia would be to swap out Multiscale for basically any other defensive ability. Multiscale realistically is kinda overkill in the best case scenario, doesn't synergize with Lugia nearly as well as Dragonite, who punishes you for being too passive. Magic Guard or Magic Bounce would help the most I'd imagine
Magic Guard would be quite interesting, allows life orb sets to back up poor offenses, removes stealth rock weakness, doesn't allow it to be toxiced, would actually let it set up. I'd love to see them give it something like that
That would even make some sense. Lugia is a powerful flying guardian of the sea. Who would imagine stealth rocks, toxic damage, and other stuff would casually hurt it? Lugia feels like a Pokémon that should be directly attacked to hurt it. It should be styled as a long-range powerful Pokémon, not a bulky Pokémon that otherwise can’t do stuff with its compromised bulk.
i wish they would acutally nerf broken pokemon instead of an already failing legendary, like toxic and thunder wave was the only thing lugia really had its just dead meat now
At this point just give lugia a mega or his shadow form. It looks so mighty yet doesn’t deliver that feeling in today’s meta game
I definitely see where that's coming from, I hope if we ever get a legends game for gen 2 we can get another Lugia form that's better without dropping it's niche as a defensive legend
I can only think of a few ways to save Lugia, and I doubt any will happen. Also, it probably needs multiple of these:
-Make it Water/Flying
-Give it Scald
-Give it Stored Power
-Make Aeroblast inflict Frostbite or something else really strong
-Make Aeroblast 10 pp
-Make Aeroblast 120 bp
-Give Lugia some stupid good ability like Magic Guard, Regenerator, or Poison Heal instead of Multiscale
-Give back lost moves
-Give it Knock Off
-Give it Flip Turn or U-Turn
-Flip the defenses and offenses 😂
-Give it Power Trick or a Special Attack equivalent
I think out of these, Scald, Stored Power, All Aeroblast buffs, and a new ability in Magic Guard would really help Lugia, and put it far more on par with other legendaries, even if still below them.
Can't wait Game Freak to give Lugia the Delibird to Iron Bundle treatment
In Gen 8 VGC my most successful team involved abusing speed control to let Kyogre wreak havoc. The two legendaries I used were Kyogre and Lugia, and my core non legendaries were Indeedee-m and Drifblim. Basically, psychic surge activated Drifblims unburden with psychic seed, and Drifblim then set up tailwind to let Indeedee-m move second with choice specs psychic surge or something else. Lugia also used dmax aeroblast to boost kyogres speed for water spout, but the amount of times I won with opponents activating its weakness policy meant it proved more useful than Kyogre in a lot of situations.
It also used a calm mind set with roost and earth power, which synergized perfectly with unburden Drifblims strenth sap + will-o-wisp. The amount of dark weak pokemon on the team also baited out Incin a lot, but the only target for him to click knock off against was Indeedee-m, since Drifblim had strength sap and instantly used its item, and Lugia ran weakness policy.
Actually a pretty interesting use for Lugia, cool to see how it did in another format.
i LOVE gen 2 and their remakes. heart gold made ho-oh my favorite between it and lugia, but i do feel bad for the ladder as power creep grew more and more potent.
Lugia should be in OU tbh
one minor fix would be to make Aeroblast crit 100% of the time. coming off a 90sp.atk stat this wouldnt be too broken and it would give lugia a niche + winning mu against opposing calm mind users
This would certainly help make CM a fair bit more viable, but it also then runs into the issue of having to deal with the consequences of an 8PP move, which when coupled with the aforementioned 90 Sp. Atk, though solid, just leaves it struggling to stand out as an attacker. Still, it’d help carve out that niche vs. opposing CM, for sure!
It’s clearly been fine defensively (in large part), so I also feel like it needs to do something more for its team, than to just sit there. Teleport might be amazing for it… but what if it was a signature that also recovered 20-25% of its HP? Too easy, boring, or reminiscent of Regen Teleporters in the Slow family? Yeah… admittedly so. But honestly, a move like this can instantly make it far less of a momentum sink, at least. Tailwind + Teleport signature is a somewhat insane move, but hilarious idea nonetheless that may also ruin VGC in the process.
If Ho-oh *has* to get something as well, then they can also get… a physical Flying Hex, or something. Lmao… let’s be real, though. Lugia’s the one who needs the help, not Ho-oh.
I'd make it 80bp but phaze with normal priority and can't be used consecutively. Which yeah... makes this move really broken as anything Lugia outspeeds can just get yeeted by it (while making sure it's incompatible with Gholdengo)
Breaking News: Gholdengo stocks rise in Ubers, OU economy fails
But nah that's actually not an awful idea, balanced by not being able to be used twice is good, low damage, but still though sadly the issues remain for what makes Lugia bad, even if it can force pivots really well with that
Lugia had a fantastic time as a staple on Stall in the Anything goes tiers of gen 6, 7, and 8 national dex. It is your first scout for Mega Rayquaza
That's actually quite interesting, I've never played Anything Goes so it's neat to hear that of all places it did well there prior to Calyrex Shadow
@@EvelynIsBased it did well despite being in a tier with Calyrex Shadow.
The stall team in question was for gen 8 national dex AG.
Mega Sableye/Quagsire/Tyranitar/Chansey/Lugia/Giratina-A
It achieved over 97gxe
Might just be me, but I thought mewtwo fell off more around gen 7 because of lunala and necrozma
This is true, in Gen 6 it was ranked as a B Tier mon, when gen 7 rolled around I think it fell somewhere around C-, it's just way outclassed after gen 7
Gamefreak should release a shadow lugia with potent offenses to give lugia some new life.
I'd like this but I do worry about them just changing Lugia to be offensive and removing it's niche of being a defensive legendary, rather than finding a way to make it good.
@@EvelynIsBased unfortunately unless there's a massive power nerf I don't know if lugia will ever be great defensively again. Psychic/Flying has only gotten worse defensively with time, ghost and dark keep getting better offensively, and gamefreak has constantly introduced more powerful min maxed mons each gen.
This really is all true sadly, I wish they could keep it defensive and good, but as power level increases Lugia will always struggle :/
The only problem with Lugia is that its special attack and speed base stats should have been switched. Lugia being able to take advantage of a base 110 special attack stat means it is not forced to be a fast wall.
i wish they rework lugia simular too its anime version.
it is stated it can gets stronger the angrier it gets, maybe they can make aeroblast work simular too rage fist
That's actually an interesting idea, wouldn't mind seeing that as a feature
my experience with lugia is that cm roost toxic is pretty good in natdex ubers. id imagine its bad in regular ooberse with miraidon running around
Even with Miraidon soon being (maybe) banned I don't think it'll change how good it is after, Lugia just kinda sucks now lol, power creep hits it way hard. Even in Nat Dex Ubers it's not super great, D rank by almost every Viability Ranking, and countered by half the best mons in the tier, Primal Groudon, Yveltal, Necrozma, just a tough outlook for Lugia overall sadly
Mewtwo, the birds,Lugia,Ho-oh, the beasts, Dialga, Palkia and Giratina, etc not having proper signature abilities feels extremely wonky when other box cover legendaries do. (With some of them being downright broken). I also think it is goofy how Lugia is a defensive oriented legendary Pokemon stat wise, sure it makes it stand out but in every other gen with box cover legendaries one is physical and the other is special other than like Zacian and Zamazenta, but that is a different issue.
I think some of these mons have fine uses even without Signature abilities, see Moltres Flame Body, Zapdos Static, both are great, Ho-Oh having Regenerator is great. I think here it's just an issue of Lugia being bad because Multiscale sucks for it, it doesn't use it well. Mewtwo also could do with another ability though I agree with that, especially for Palkia and Dialga too.
@@EvelynIsBased Yeah, but I feel like Ho-oh and Lugia should have better abilities and Lugia should have stats swapped around. Mewtwo, Palkia, Dialga and Giratina you'd think would have downright broken abilities as well, tbf.
Agreed on Mewtwo, and the creation trio, but Ho-Oh is one of the top Ubers, I worry changing it ability would actually make it worse, it's ability to pivot into strong attackers, deal damage, and swap back out and in with more health is half of it's niche, on top of its great use of recoil moves without having to worry about over doing recoil damage due to regenerator
@@EvelynIsBased I could see that, but I think you could give it an ability like regenerator a little bit more specific to Ho-oh that still works, but maybe more busted.
I think that's understandable as well, a unique ability without removing Regenerators benefits would be really good
If it got follow me it'd be a lot better. That way it can use its ability to really tank that first phase, allowing sweepers to set up for snowballing.
They need to give it back psycho boost like it had in gen 3. Calm mind psycho boost aeroblast probably not great but is an good attacking option
Actually in gen 8 Lugia was the worst uber.. Worse than other shits stuff like cinderace the next worst ubers
what is lugia's typing :D
Psychic flying
It start losing at the same time it started looking ridiculous and unimposing.
No coincidence.
Give him a Mega Evolution with same method of evolving Mega Ray just let Lugia equipped its signature Aeroblast to Mega Evolve.
Its stat will be like this
HP - 106
ATK - 90 -20 = 70
DEF - 130 +20 = 150
SP.ATK - 90 +50 = 140
SP.DEF - 154 +40 = 194
SPD - 110 +10 = 120
Its ability is Mythical Wing which gives priority to every flying type moves and increases all flying type move damages by 20%. It also neutralize every super effective hits to its flying typing. And when it's send out in the battle during the 1st phase it will destroy any hazard moves to its own field.
My setup will be like this
Bold Nature
HP - 240 EV
DEF - 252 EV
SPEED - 16EV
Item - Leftover
Moveset
Calm Mind
Roost
Aeroblast
Earth Power
Let it setup calm mind during his normal form with Multiscale ability and then after 2-3 calm minds Mega Evolve it and wreck everything with Priority move Aeroblast +20% additional damage
Think this all makes good sense and checks out, though breaking hazards after coming in first phase doesn't make a lot of sense, Multiscale doesn't do that for any other mon so unless we wanna buff Dragonite with that, which I don't think we should, it can keep the weakness to Rocks, especially with how good that mega evolution is. Overall that would make it an insane calm mind sweeper, especially late game, would probably be overwhelming to Ubers, but also a possibility of it not being, especially if things like Miraidon aren't banned.
If not for Multiscale, Lugia would be easily OU. And not even good there (see Deoxys-FrauD, who was easily unbannable in SM, and now isn't even UU)
Not Deoxys Fraud 😭
But yeah I agree with that lmao, multiscale doesn't break it, it just limits it from OU
Just bring lugia to gen 9 OU.
Or don't lol
I would give Lugia a new signature ability in Mastery: This pokemon's offensive stat is multiplied by 1.5 when using STAB.
Okay tbh i don't think it'll fix anything, the metas are too anti psychic and flying for its own good, I just want an excuse to toss out Aeroblasts and Psycho Boosts.
Yeah probably won't fix much, especially given Base Power multipliers typically outdo stat multipliers, hence why Adaptability is such a good ability. Hitting a 260 Draco Meteor off of 90 SpA is typically better than hitting a 130 Draco Meteor off a higher SpA
@@EvelynIsBased Isn't adaptability a 33% power boost?
Nope, infact Adaptability itself doesn't boost moves at all, it simply boosts STAB from a 1.5x boost into a 2x boost
Mega Lugia 👀
I also think Lugia's the worst cover Legendary, but for entirely different reasons than yours.
Lugia would be peak if it wasn't ass, I won't take this slander 🙏🏼
@@EvelynIsBased TOO BAD!
Lugia sucks outside of Gen 9 because it has an identity crisis in its overall Pokemon design - it has the stats of a wall, but a horrible defensive typing and support movepool. only whirlwind and toxic are really useful. psychic/flying is one of the worst type combinations defensively, and Lugia has a signature move that is an attack, and it's a good move - but only backed by 90 special attack, pitiful by Ubers standards.
i honestly think lugia could be allowed in past gen OU metagames and it would not cause issues. it's just a worse toxapex.
if black kyurem was ever allowed in OU, lugia pre gen 9 could be OU too
lugia, a worse toxapex: too strong for OU, ban to ubers pls
gen 2 curselax, an AG-power level pokemon: necessary for the balance of OU, don't ban
Lol it could not be allowed it past OU gens and be okay unless we're talking Gen 8, and even that'd be problematic as it'd slow down games a lot, and frankly tiers are balanced by enjoyment, we don't want Lugia to come in and be the sitting duck Mon and make you wait a millennium to win. But no, I mean hell it wasn't C tier until gen 8, in Gen 7 Ubers it's B tier I believe, Gen 6 it's A-, it's not great as on offensive mon, but it is a great tank that is outclassed in Ubers. It does not belong in OU, as it simply would not be enjoyable, it's a worse stall mon than Toxapex, but not a worse offensive one
"Lugia (Almost) Always Sucks"
Lugia being good for 6 generations
What did you mean by this?? 😂😂
this video would be better with fewer obnoxious sound effects
Noted, appreciate the feedback
@@EvelynIsBased Tbh, the volume of said sound effects could also just be lowered, so it’s more of a “background” sound effect. Distracts from your words a lot less
He kinda sucks in smash too lmao
Gotta be one of the worst legendaries to get out of the Pokeballs
That assist would skyrocket in danger if she strafed like right or left.
Heres a solution. Dont play the gen 8 and 9 games... They are crap anyhow lol.
Gen 8 is dog 💩 but gen 9 is good wouldve been better without lag
Actually kinda enjoy the gen 8 Metagame, though 9 can be annoying due to Terastilization kinda making Hyper Offense king, but new tools like Ogerpon Water, Tusk, and old things like Lando and Gliscor are still good options to slow it. Anyways 6 fucking ground types in OU moment
@@EvelynIsBased I still prefer gen 7 pvp the only game with two battle gimmicks.
I think gen 7s meta is the most balanced as it's the most controlled. Mega in of itself is "broken" but since we can see which Megas in particular are broken, we can ban those Megas, and leave ones that are fair to roam the tier. You can't really do that with something like Terastilization since it's universal and the same for each pokemon. Banning Tera for a pokemon isn't possible so we just ban the Pokemon, and banning Tera leaves the Meta in most people's eyes fairly uninteresting. It's honestly the core reason why Mega evolution has always been my favorite competitively.
@@EvelynIsBased yeah I love megas too, I like running either mega lopunny or mega Venusaur.
lugia's bad but calling it the worst in a world where artikuno exists (even if now it's good in vgc) there's also other legendaries like silvally and wo chien who are so forgettable and just bad they deserve the spot way more
Lugias most notably bad at least, it's a box art legendary with a box art legendary BST of 680, Wo-Chien, while technically a legendary, has a BST of 580, and Sivally, while also technically a legendary, has a BST of 570, I mostly titled it under the idea of an actual box art legendary, rather than pokemon who "technically" fall under the requirements
Articuno and Regice should also be noted as Pokémon who did as badly as Lugia. Heck, Articuno can be doubly noted because Articuno’s Galarian counterpart is also Psychic/Flying and also is therefore the worst of the Galarian birds by default.
Also, Kantonian Articuno isn’t even good in general: Rillaboom and Dragons and Landorus is good, Snow buffs defense, and Articuno only has an evasion-boosting ability. Articuno is literally now conditionally good in balance metas where Rillaboom, Dragons, and Landorus are rampant and counters are pressured away. While that is a pretty common state, it still isn’t the state of literally any Landorus-I.
Also, it was good in Gen 8 UU stall for some reason.
@iantaakalla8180 Might make a video about Articuno in singles, but this video was meant to be about Box art legendarys, or just ones with BSTs above or at 600. Articuno and Regice imo aren't really notably bad, as they already just have the BST of any normal Pokemon with poorly optimized stats.
@@EvelynIsBased oooh yeah it kinda sucks for a box legend
Assault vest has something to say lmaoooo