Awesome list! Definitely need to use Cloudkill more, especially since I pretty much always have Heroes' Feast as a buff in Act 3. Love your videos! Just finished watching your latest playthrough. Hope you have a great holiday season and can't wait for the next streams in the new year!
@@CasualVeteranGamer Maybe movement is halved if they concentrate on an additional spell? Or they become lethargic when their concentration is broken? Or both? 🤔🤔🤔
Great list! Minor quibble with the equivalence of hex and hunter's mark: warlocks, the only class that get it by default, *have* to upcast it when they level up, and upcasting does nothing. Spending a level 1 or two warlock spell slot on hex is worthwhile, at level 5, I don't think it is. Whereas hunter's mark has about the same utility throughout, especially on a weapon-user who isn't dual-wielding.
That's a fair point, I guess the spell slot for hex isn't a waste if you don't have too many levels in warlock! I guess magic initiate: warlock can get it too, but it'll be just a single cast per long rest sadly.
@@CasualVeteranGamer That's fair, and there's a good many builds that use magic initiate for eldritch blast or take a few warlock levels: so it's not an edge case, I suppose. Having thought about this a little more, even for a high-level warlock, there's an argument to be made for hex because you may well be spending your first short-rest's worth of spell-slots on day-long buffs: conjure elemental and armor of agathys. So it wouldn't necessarily hurt to use hex with the last one before short resting, and then getting a solid buff on your eldritch blast in the future. If you're going into a combat looking to use levelled spells, though, hex doesn't feel worth it at higher levels.
If you level a pure warlock to level 12, I don't know what to tell you. Take 2 levels in warlock (still gets hex, and your subclass, great old one for the fear), take 6 sorcerer for obvious reasons, and 2 fighter for the action surge. At level 10 you do 3x eldritch blasts. with haste its x6, with quickened spell x9, with bloodlust elixir x12, action surge x15. Hex is a bonus action, so with hex you get x12. Since hex triggers on each attack roll and all 12x eldritch blasts is considered an attack roll, you are simply incorrect. An extra 1d6 x12 is not insignificant. You just traded a bonus action for a potential 72 dmg per turn on target until it dies. You can abuse the fountain in house of hope from the start of act 3 and get infinite long rests while maintaining permanent buffs such as the until long rest bless you get from donating at the water queen's palace. To name just one. Gear yourself with stuff that gives reverberation and you'll be either knocking everyone prone in round 1, or fearing everyone you didn't hit. And hex is still viable all the way to end game, they key with hex is multiplying attack rolls.
There's more to the game than optimization. I was discussing the relative utility of hex and hunter's mark at high warlock levels, which I think is an interesting question. If you wanted to optimize a warlock dip, sure, that's one way to do it; there's others.
Nice video and interesting topic! Also, of note the 'Strange Conduit Ring' grants additional psychic damage (1d4) to the wearer's damage while Concentrating. I often have melee characters concentrate on any kind of spell even cantrips to get an additional damage rider on their attacks. (i.e., Hunter's Mark, Spritual Guardian, Guidance or Dancing Lights). Finally, not sure if you mentIoned it, but the Saving Throw for slipping on ice is affected by the casters 'Save DC'. I had Gale's Save DC at 23 or higher and NO ONE could make their save vs slipping (not even me)! Hilarious!!
Yeah, I like the grymskull helm so that even my martial members can potentially benefit from the strange conduit ring since it gives hunters mark. I don't think I mentioned that bit about how the spell save DC for sleet storm is from the caster. It's amazing when we get towards the end of the game and enemies have a big time resisting most spells!
Interesting fact, most likely a bug but if party is under Heroe’s Feast, the party is immune to Cloudkill damage. Not poison just Clouldkill. I’ve had Cloudkill comps that were so good. Also Monk lvl 10 are only class that gets immunity to poison in base kit.
You ARE immune to poison, not cloudkill. "You and everyone around can't be poisoned, diseased, or frightened. Your HP increases, and you make wisdom saves with advantage" - your answer is literally in the spell description.
@@CasualVeteranGamer Hero's feast - "You and everyone around can't be poisoned, diseased, or frightened. Your HP increases, and you make wisdom saves with advantage" So yeah, not a cloudkill bug, just the spell working exactly as intended.
No, you can still take Poison damage, you just can’t be afflicted with the Poisoned condition. But for some reason, you are immune to the Poison damage from Cloudkill. Test it yourself.
My favorite is Tasha's Laughter. Hardly the top level 1 spell, but the animation is lovely. Smashing your opponents while they're laughing their asses off, what's not to like?
What do you mean? It is one of the best level 1 spells there is though? Being able to shut down an enemy entirely in combat with a level 1 spell slot is insanely valuable. In some ways it is even better than hold person since hold person is a higher level spell and only works on humanoids, so they both have their place situationally.
a 10 turn stun at level 1 that basically works 50% of the time is completely broken. It gets replaced with more useful concentrations later. But till then, sleep/tasha is a must have in honor mode.
No Confusion? I’ve upcast that to usually level 5 for larger area which is quite a lot and took out a very large number of enemies without affecting my allies. It is a gamble as they might attack you anyway, but in large battles with multiple enemies it really helps. I guess it depends. Hold person at level 5 can take out 4 humanoids both wisdom saves. Confusion works on non-humanoids if I remember. It’s been a bit since I’ve used it. I tried to look up what is immune and I’m not finding a list. So, I should load an old save and find some undead to check.
Confusion was in my honourable mention list, and I've used it to great affect in places such as the house of grief. It can really turn battles in our favour, and as you found out, it's one of the only control spells that can even affect undead. Most of the time I don't end up casting it because I find one of the other spells is more suited, but it's certainly not a bad spell.
Globe of Invulnerability absolutley trivialised Raphael for me on Honour (granted I did set up a barrel trap). You can shove enemies out of the globe as well.
Depends. For combat it's not even a top 10, more like a top 4: Twinned haste on 2 casters. THE MIGHTY SPIRIT GUARDIAAAAAAAAANS! And Laezel seems like she's concentrating on hitting REAL hard. Sometimes I'll swap the 2nd caster and give Laezel the bow with haste, the 4th concentration will then be some area effect or simply call lightning. I like to give my sorlok fighter bloodlust elixir. 6 sorcerer, 2 warlok, 4 fighter. With haste its 2x actions and bonus action, quickened spell makes the bonus action a true action. If you kill someone that round, that's another action, 2 level fighter gives action surge. That's 4x actions 1x bonus action, all 5 can be used to cast eldritch blast x3 at level 10. 15x eldritch blasts with great old one, you basically stun the entire battlefield with 1 turn on the sorlok. At level 12 this does 105dmg per action if everything hits. Combo it with gear that reduces crit roll, and you crit most of those shots too. (also raphael doesn't have force resistance, and his soul pillars have force vulnerability...just saying. Turn 1 you can clear all 4 pillars, and still do 200+ dmg on something else) It doesn't matter what OP spell you concentrate on, nothing will ever be as good as adding another action to your party, especially if you can do 2. Even if sorcerers were nurfed to the ground and back, just having twinned spell haste is completely OP and worth designing a party around. Most fights, if you have 3x hasted characters the fight will end in turn 1. An extra action isn't just double damage, its a chance to remove enemy actions. A hasted character isn't suddenly 2x better, it's exponentially better because you just tipped action economy in your favor, the more you do it, the easier it gets.
Would be great to make the same video but for Solo run. I kinda agree with this list using a party, but going solo I never use spells like Hold Person because most battles have multiple enemies. And then I use Hunger of Hadar a lot if I’m warlock cuz no party members on the field.
Cantrips are spells. Which is why only Spellcasters get them, and they use the same concentration mechanic, and there are spell scrolls for some cantrips. In tabletop they're treated as level 0 spells. They're spells that don't require a spell slot.
uhmmm cantrips are just spells with no spell cost sir. What you just said is like saying regular melee attacks are not weapon attacks because they don't use other resources like superiority die. All monkeys are apes, not all apes are monkeys. Well, all cantrips are spells, not all spells are cantrips.
Awesome list! Definitely need to use Cloudkill more, especially since I pretty much always have Heroes' Feast as a buff in Act 3. Love your videos! Just finished watching your latest playthrough. Hope you have a great holiday season and can't wait for the next streams in the new year!
You must be very excited about the new subclasses! since you don't really use mods I think? Path of the Giants looks very fun!
Yeah, for sure! I use some mods now, but they're mostly quality of life mods. I added a few races recently as well!
@@CasualVeteranGamernew subclasses look great, plus more functions for modders to use! Can't wait.
It would so cool if there was a feat for 2 concentration spells at a time
Right like you can use two low levels or 1 high level
I think that might become an automatic pick for just about any spellcaster!
@@CasualVeteranGamer Maybe movement is halved if they concentrate on an additional spell? Or they become lethargic when their concentration is broken? Or both? 🤔🤔🤔
If it was only a first level spell ( can't be upcasted)
would it be too powerful a feat?
Sorcery points and twinned spell can double some concentration spells: magic weapon, elemental weapon, shield of faith, and probably more.
I learned here that I need to try cloudkill... always forget about it. Def agree with guidance and globe.
I find that Cloudkill is super fun to use and it's good at taking out groups of enemies. Just make sure to have hero's feast if possible!
Great list! Minor quibble with the equivalence of hex and hunter's mark: warlocks, the only class that get it by default, *have* to upcast it when they level up, and upcasting does nothing. Spending a level 1 or two warlock spell slot on hex is worthwhile, at level 5, I don't think it is. Whereas hunter's mark has about the same utility throughout, especially on a weapon-user who isn't dual-wielding.
That's a fair point, I guess the spell slot for hex isn't a waste if you don't have too many levels in warlock! I guess magic initiate: warlock can get it too, but it'll be just a single cast per long rest sadly.
@@CasualVeteranGamer That's fair, and there's a good many builds that use magic initiate for eldritch blast or take a few warlock levels: so it's not an edge case, I suppose. Having thought about this a little more, even for a high-level warlock, there's an argument to be made for hex because you may well be spending your first short-rest's worth of spell-slots on day-long buffs: conjure elemental and armor of agathys. So it wouldn't necessarily hurt to use hex with the last one before short resting, and then getting a solid buff on your eldritch blast in the future. If you're going into a combat looking to use levelled spells, though, hex doesn't feel worth it at higher levels.
If you level a pure warlock to level 12, I don't know what to tell you. Take 2 levels in warlock (still gets hex, and your subclass, great old one for the fear), take 6 sorcerer for obvious reasons, and 2 fighter for the action surge.
At level 10 you do 3x eldritch blasts. with haste its x6, with quickened spell x9, with bloodlust elixir x12, action surge x15. Hex is a bonus action, so with hex you get x12. Since hex triggers on each attack roll and all 12x eldritch blasts is considered an attack roll, you are simply incorrect. An extra 1d6 x12 is not insignificant. You just traded a bonus action for a potential 72 dmg per turn on target until it dies.
You can abuse the fountain in house of hope from the start of act 3 and get infinite long rests while maintaining permanent buffs such as the until long rest bless you get from donating at the water queen's palace. To name just one.
Gear yourself with stuff that gives reverberation and you'll be either knocking everyone prone in round 1, or fearing everyone you didn't hit. And hex is still viable all the way to end game, they key with hex is multiplying attack rolls.
There's more to the game than optimization. I was discussing the relative utility of hex and hunter's mark at high warlock levels, which I think is an interesting question. If you wanted to optimize a warlock dip, sure, that's one way to do it; there's others.
Nice video and interesting topic! Also, of note the 'Strange Conduit Ring' grants additional psychic damage (1d4) to the wearer's damage while Concentrating. I often have melee characters concentrate on any kind of spell even cantrips to get an additional damage rider on their attacks. (i.e., Hunter's Mark, Spritual Guardian, Guidance or Dancing Lights). Finally, not sure if you mentIoned it, but the Saving Throw for slipping on ice is affected by the casters 'Save DC'. I had Gale's Save DC at 23 or higher and NO ONE could make their save vs slipping (not even me)! Hilarious!!
Yeah, I like the grymskull helm so that even my martial members can potentially benefit from the strange conduit ring since it gives hunters mark.
I don't think I mentioned that bit about how the spell save DC for sleet storm is from the caster. It's amazing when we get towards the end of the game and enemies have a big time resisting most spells!
Sorry I only watched half your video I had trouble concentrating! 😂 #Dadjoke!
I barely had the concentration to finish making it myself haha!
Interesting fact, most likely a bug but if party is under Heroe’s Feast, the party is immune to Cloudkill damage. Not poison just Clouldkill. I’ve had Cloudkill comps that were so good. Also Monk lvl 10 are only class that gets immunity to poison in base kit.
Yeah, I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but it's been that way since the game was released. It's really useful though!
You ARE immune to poison, not cloudkill.
"You and everyone around can't be poisoned, diseased, or frightened. Your HP increases, and you make wisdom saves with advantage" - your answer is literally in the spell description.
@@CasualVeteranGamer Hero's feast - "You and everyone around can't be poisoned, diseased, or frightened. Your HP increases, and you make wisdom saves with advantage" So yeah, not a cloudkill bug, just the spell working exactly as intended.
No, you can still take Poison damage, you just can’t be afflicted with the Poisoned condition. But for some reason, you are immune to the Poison damage from Cloudkill. Test it yourself.
My favorite is Tasha's Laughter. Hardly the top level 1 spell, but the animation is lovely. Smashing your opponents while they're laughing their asses off, what's not to like?
What do you mean? It is one of the best level 1 spells there is though?
Being able to shut down an enemy entirely in combat with a level 1 spell slot is insanely valuable. In some ways it is even better than hold person since hold person is a higher level spell and only works on humanoids, so they both have their place situationally.
Indeed!
I think it becomes better as our spell save DC goes up since the enemies get extra savings throws when they are hit.
a 10 turn stun at level 1 that basically works 50% of the time is completely broken. It gets replaced with more useful concentrations later. But till then, sleep/tasha is a must have in honor mode.
No Confusion? I’ve upcast that to usually level 5 for larger area which is quite a lot and took out a very large number of enemies without affecting my allies. It is a gamble as they might attack you anyway, but in large battles with multiple enemies it really helps. I guess it depends. Hold person at level 5 can take out 4 humanoids both wisdom saves. Confusion works on non-humanoids if I remember. It’s been a bit since I’ve used it. I tried to look up what is immune and I’m not finding a list. So, I should load an old save and find some undead to check.
Yes it works on undead even, I loaded an old save
Confusion was in my honourable mention list, and I've used it to great affect in places such as the house of grief. It can really turn battles in our favour, and as you found out, it's one of the only control spells that can even affect undead. Most of the time I don't end up casting it because I find one of the other spells is more suited, but it's certainly not a bad spell.
Globe of Invulnerability absolutley trivialised Raphael for me on Honour (granted I did set up a barrel trap). You can shove enemies out of the globe as well.
Depends. For combat it's not even a top 10, more like a top 4: Twinned haste on 2 casters. THE MIGHTY SPIRIT GUARDIAAAAAAAAANS! And Laezel seems like she's concentrating on hitting REAL hard. Sometimes I'll swap the 2nd caster and give Laezel the bow with haste, the 4th concentration will then be some area effect or simply call lightning.
I like to give my sorlok fighter bloodlust elixir. 6 sorcerer, 2 warlok, 4 fighter. With haste its 2x actions and bonus action, quickened spell makes the bonus action a true action. If you kill someone that round, that's another action, 2 level fighter gives action surge. That's 4x actions 1x bonus action, all 5 can be used to cast eldritch blast x3 at level 10. 15x eldritch blasts with great old one, you basically stun the entire battlefield with 1 turn on the sorlok. At level 12 this does 105dmg per action if everything hits. Combo it with gear that reduces crit roll, and you crit most of those shots too.
(also raphael doesn't have force resistance, and his soul pillars have force vulnerability...just saying. Turn 1 you can clear all 4 pillars, and still do 200+ dmg on something else)
It doesn't matter what OP spell you concentrate on, nothing will ever be as good as adding another action to your party, especially if you can do 2. Even if sorcerers were nurfed to the ground and back, just having twinned spell haste is completely OP and worth designing a party around. Most fights, if you have 3x hasted characters the fight will end in turn 1. An extra action isn't just double damage, its a chance to remove enemy actions. A hasted character isn't suddenly 2x better, it's exponentially better because you just tipped action economy in your favor, the more you do it, the easier it gets.
Would be great to make the same video but for Solo run.
I kinda agree with this list using a party, but going solo I never use spells like Hold Person because most battles have multiple enemies. And then I use Hunger of Hadar a lot if I’m warlock cuz no party members on the field.
uhmmm Guidance is a cantrip, not a spell???
Cantrips are spells. Which is why only Spellcasters get them, and they use the same concentration mechanic, and there are spell scrolls for some cantrips. In tabletop they're treated as level 0 spells.
They're spells that don't require a spell slot.
uhmmm cantrips are just spells with no spell cost sir. What you just said is like saying regular melee attacks are not weapon attacks because they don't use other resources like superiority die.
All monkeys are apes, not all apes are monkeys. Well, all cantrips are spells, not all spells are cantrips.