When Pat Gelsinger promised to leave AMD in the rear-view mirror for good he probably should have also grabbed a map to make sure that he was actually going in the right direction 😂
Intel really traded stability stability and temp, to beat AMD in cinebench by a few point and now might have lost not just gamer but server in their stupidity because they overreacted to competition
Man I been saying Intel was lost for 4 years and just got heckled by tech blog masses. Can't believe I'm reading this stuff now. It tooks years for popular opinion to move and the hate to simmer down for AMD fans.
Intel: "Why don't you git gud, losers?" *while slapping AMD in the face* AMD: *slap Intel in the face after a decade of their abuse* Intel: *Now suffering from PTSD and refusing to go therapy* Meanwhile Nvidia is constantly struck in Top 10 anime battle with it's past self
I'm playing around with mine now. Mine is right on the edge of stability and just another 100mhz on the cache frequency will cause a hard crash immediately.
I bought a 13900k when it launched. I spent months off and on trying to diagnose why it wasn't stable. I ended up having to drop my ram speed to ABSURDLY low speeds to get stability in any sort of testing. I could get no help from support and was told I was to blame. I just assumed I got very unlucky with a bad sample. Looks like I am done with intel. I should also mention it go more unstable over time, requiring me to come back and underclock even more about a year later.
Keep emailing them because I got blamed for overclock when I came back with it's a K version that overclock to 5.8 im getting a replacement Tomorrow and have 30 days to send defect one back to Intel
NASA is nothing more than a tax collector rockets cannot fly in space there is nothing for it to PUSH OR PULL any type of rocket into space would be free floating and not moving but keep voting and praying both an illusion just like space travel
Damn, intel absolutely dropped the ball on this. People expects Intel to be the pinnacle of stability while amd has become a meme on how unstable it is. But now, it's the other way around. Jumped to amd for the first time on the 7800x3d with a 6000mhz cl30 ram kit and it's been rock solid for the past 7 months. I hope Intel can fix this on the 15th Gen or people will jump ship soon; end users and enterprises!
it's been like a year since AMD chips were literally catching fire. They're never going to be seen as the pinnacle of stability. It's more likely that Intel has finally succumbed to ye olde diversity.
It always makes me laugh when people try to picture Intel as stable and reliable. I only had problems since Intel began to fall behind and desperately tried to keep up with AMD. Luckily I switched to AM5 last year and don't have to deal with random crashes anymore.
I didnt just spend on a 13900KS but I got an 800$ mobo with a 4090 and cant get 2hrs of gameplay without a crash. This is gonna turn into a class action lawsuit.
that is my issue. even if Intel refunds my 13900k, I still have my Z790 Hero which means I'm stuck with 13th or 14th (12th is too slow) which is clearly defective.
@@mehck2Not really? At the very least faster than the instability issues that stall you out completely It’s not like it’s an i7-4770K and you’re back on DDR3. It’s just 2-3 generations old. Ryzen 2000 would still be fine going backwards from Ryzen 5000 but of course it’ll be a bottleneck if literally everything else is current. (Though a more apt comparison would be going Ryzen 3000 from Ryzen 7000 in terms of performance loss but they’re AM4 vs AM5 so of course different socket)
@@rhythmandblues9302 Now I know why the prebuilt i9s are cheaper or at least the same price than the i7. Just yesterday, I came close to buying an MSI Aegis, i9-14900K AIO cooler, 32GB RAM, 2TB NVME with a 4080 super for $2300. Glad I had second thoughts.
I just ordered an i9-12900KF to replace that goddamn heat plate that is my i9-13900K. Thank God my Z790 motherboard can fit a 12th gen. I'm tired of riding the dragon. I regularly hit TjMax. It's gotten to the point I can't even use Unity any longer, and doing things like exporting videos from Premier causes my process to try to cook itself even if I'm using the GPU for everything that I can. I hit TjMax so much and it throttles so much as a result that I honestly get better results with my older 9th gen build. I NEVER hit TjMax on my previous build, and I actually have a better AIO cooler on this new build than I do with the 9th gen build. I've got aggressive curves on my fans and my poor pumps are working overtime just to keep it under 50c for light loads. Any heavy loads and I'm hitting 80c immediately and spiking in the 90s with the occasional dance with TjMax at 100c.
contemplating what you did, just from a 14700k to 12900kf, But those temps on your config are a concern too. What AIO did you get (ie 280, 360 ect), what case, and what speed are you running you ram? Contract frame and thermal paste used?
So glad I went team Red this time. I've been an Intel guy my whole life. The introduction of Ryzen, combined with stuff like this, has swayed my opinion over time. 🤷♂
All the back yard renovation AND Tech News, too! Thank you, Joe and Paul! Everyone does their version of the Tech News, but your witty and sarcastic delivery ever reminding me that I am at the mercy of the manufacturers and vendors is second too none. While there isn't much that can be done, I can at least laugh about it while bending over and taking whatever they dish out while they line their pockets with cash.
Not right is an understatement for these processors. Numerous people have substantially underclocked and undervolted them and the 13900K and 14900K processors keep on having crashes.
@@evildarkeevildark5943 some assume it's about cpu-cache conectivity, which was changed in 13 gen, that's why 12 gen has no problems if W chipset has problems, and it is on 125W preset, then problem is processor itself not how people use it edit: sometimes disabling e-cores helps, when e-core to cache connectivity is fried, that is, so it's more like 25% chance you will get problems in next 6 months no matter what
@@evildarkeevildark5943 Word on the street is that all 13th and 14th gen cpus have the issue and will eventually be unstable but it does seem like the i3s and i5s will be old by the time that happens. i7s are a bit iffy right now but im sure in the next year or so we will see how well they hold up.
Yeah, but if I recall correctly it wasn't about stability but I/O and latency issues in demanding scenarios that he chased down. Nevertheless, there seem to be multiple hardware bugs, design flaws or BIOS/firmware issues at play here. As I've just recently bought a 14700KF myself, I am worried. While I've seen some quirks, working around them yielded a fairly stable system so far. Fingers crossed that my sample belongs to the 50% that work fine. :)
@@seylaw Yeah but it wasn't even in demanding scenario's the Intel CPUs would lag out on a drag and drop, crap. Also your CPU might be fine now but there is the issue of CPUs from RPL degrading, especially the one with higher core counts, something to do with connections between the main dies and the i/o dies. I'd return it if I still could
@@kayk3639 While this is a plausible theory, we still need more evidence to be sure. It could also be a combination of several factors, e.g. the bending issue and QA issues. At least I use a contact frame from day 1 to be safe on that front. My problem is, my alternatives are limited as I want great gaming and high multi-core performance and want to keep using DDR4 RAM from a previous build to save costs. You can't get that combination from AMD for the great prices that I got my Intel gear for - 14700KF (339 EUR) and a NZXT N5 Z690 (109 EUR, both incl. VAT and shipping). AM4 is too old and performs rather poorly in newer games. And while I could get the 7800X3D for 339 EUR right now, AM5 mandates DDR5 RAM (100 EUR for 32 GB) and a decent motherboard would cost me 220 EUR. This makes the AM5 route simply not cost efficient enough while delivering slightly better gaming performance but significantly less productivity performance (which I need for code compilation tasks).
As an AMD adherent, I just want to tell Intel: Get your act together. I don't want AMD to be the only game in town, because I know they'll behave just like Intel did when _they_ were.
@@richardsmith9615 AMD is just as crappy as intel when it comes to shady business tactics. don't kid yourself just because the other isn't doing as poorly. they are both sharks swimming in the same pond. AMD has been pushing shady licensing practices as of late.
It's probably multi layered problem, and the company has shareholders and silicon design competitors what do you expect, them saying all the case details just like that?
Need to keep it swept under a rug until arrow lake launches to keep selling as many raptor lake cpus as possible. When arrow lake launches they can declare raptor lake defective and tell everyone to buy arrow lake as a replacement.
The great tragedy here is userbenchmark! They will either spiral down in grief or their denial might grow so large as to consume whats left of their logic circuits!
@@HoldinContempt level1 was saying the data centers are seeing these chips dying in workstation hardware. 0 overclocking/volting. 50:50 chance that some part of it is failing. some its 1 core, others its the imc.
@@Azureskies01rumor is that Arrow lake is going to be on Intel 20A, which is three nodes ahead of Intel 7, with Intel 4 and Intel 3 in between. And allegedly TSMC has said they expect Intel 20A/18A to be a N3 competitor. Five nodes in four years baby!
Finally this is getting real traction. I thought I was going nuts with this 14900k. I can't push past 5.5Ghz no matter how much voltage I push to it. Doesn't get hotter than 70C at 5.5 with the proper voltage and no crashing.
pat even stole bunch of amd engineer to help them design cpus , jim keller , raja kadouri , and many more ........well that didnt help intel atall . lol , looks like ex amd engneers planted bugs in intel cpus , hahahahahah
That alone is scary, makes you wonder how many other game companies have banned players for cheating that may have just been caused by hardware issues. If I was them I'd be looking into logs if they have them as to what CPU they may have been running.
The nail in the coffin Intel needs. I was thinking of purchasing a 14900k to give a last breathe to my mobo.Fuck it, i'll wait to see if AMD comes up with a 9800x3d...
They already said the X3D 9000 series is coming, sometime after the launch of the vanilla chips. Supposedly they have made a lot of innovations in how the X3D works so it should be even more impressive than it has been on the 5000 and 7000 series CPUs. Intel is a joke.
@@kramnull8962 not at all. Non X3D is a cheaper alternative but still far better than anything Intel has on offer. Look at the latest benchmarks of the 9950X… 40% faster than a 14900K. Imagine the X3D versions…
@@mattspeer01 Same thing was said before the launch of the 7xxx as well. Here's a statement about what happened then. @ZeroB4NG 4 hours ago welp, seems i picked the perfect time to jump from Intel to AMD when i bought into the 7800X3D hype instead of just the next "boring but reliable"-Intel... not so reliable anymore it seems. I mean my Asus AM5 board had trouble booting with the first DDR5 kit i bought and i ended up buying another Kit, which sucked with the whole bios updates mess with burning up CPUs and boards and all that, but ... oh well. 1 Reply
@@mehck2yup, needs to be a total recall. The cpus are defective period. Beating around the bush and blaming everything else is not going to change that.
@@jm67x Nope. An ocean going animal being wet is hardly extraordinary. First line of the Wikipedia entry for 'Squib (explosive)': "A squib is a miniature explosive device used in a wide range of industries, from special effects to military applications." 'Ere in't north o' England, t' phrase means sommut like _going off like a wet firework_ . Or t' opposite o' _keeping your powder dry_ .
Oh yeah?!? Well here in Houston, Texas it's 3:30am, the temperature is 80 (26.7 in commie units), the relative humidity is 85% and we've just had a hurricane. So it looks like our weather is just a whole lot better than yours! >:-(
same here across the channel in the Netherlands. record breaking rains all winter and it hasn't really stopped since.... also way too cold for mid July, had like 2 days of summer so far....
The fact that they're talking about a new release of CPUs while their current re-release of CPUs (just renamed 13000 series) are broken and people are wondering if they'll even get their money back or a replacement... Amazing.
@@EndeavorabIe Which motherboard designs? You mean W680 and Z680? They don't seem to have a ton in common, so that the issue occurs with server-grade hardware also seems to suggest that the issue is deeper than e.g. power limits.
Netherlands here, what is this "sun" people speak of? Isn't that that orange disc in the sky I see rising every morning, only for it to dissapear a few hours later?
ya know people, AMD is very much an option....im actually surprised anyone would go with Intel at this current time for anything, Epyc for servers, Threadripper for workstations and 7800X3D for gaming and all the super powerfull small stuff for handhelds....where does Intel even come into the picture atm?
The reason I went Intel was because it’s a laptop and these last few generations with ecores Intel pulled a uno reverse card and where before AMD had the lead in laptops with the first 8core/16thread laptop parts, now Intel is competing against that with 32 thread parts, and as someone who was coming from a multithreading starved 4core/4thread i5, 32 threads is intoxicating. Also pretty sure that Intel had a lead in single threaded performance or 1% lows or something *in the laptop segment* , quick sync, and thunderbolt all for what was supposed to only be a trade off of 2 hours of battery life (8 hours for AMD vs what was supposed to be 5-6 hours for this gen Intel) it seemed the better deal. Definitely feeling a little burned now though.
@@levygaming3133 Obviously it was your choice but I couldn't imagine buying an Intel laptop since 9/11th gen. Intel has innovated nothing since and they have done naught but pump power to the hungry CPUs for minimal gains. For a laptop, this inefficiency has translated to ridiculous heat transfer. IDK how people continue to buy Intel knowing that their CPUs need almost 3x the power to compete, particularly on a battery powered machine.
@@davide4725 I mean it wasn’t that much more inefficient according to the reviews though. The Intel laptop got 5 or 6 hours of video playback depending on the reviewer whereas the competing AMD chip got 8. Ideally 2 hours for twice as many threads seemed like an easy decision. Also this was mobile, before the x3d “laptops” were a thing, and AMD has reduced cache on their normal laptop chips. And so if I remember correctly, Intel beats non-X3D chips and X3D beats Intel. And so when you then reduce the cache even further, I seem to remember Intel comparing quite favorably. I didn’t just blindly buy Intel because “I only trust Intel because it’s all I’ve ever used”, I did actually put a lot of research into this and actively bought it in spite of my previous Intel CPU. Also because the laptop that made the most sense for me ultimately didn’t (and still doesn’t) have an AMD equivalent option. Edit: you’ve been very polite, I just take issue with “Intel has not innovated” and especially saying Intel hasn’t innovated since just before the last time they actually innovated. I had a skylake CPU without hyper threading from back when Intel wanted to pretend that 4 cores aught to be enough for anybody, and just like Ryzen forced Intel to actually compete and stop gatekeeping hyper threading, E cores have been a game changer and while even with the Ecores Intel still can’t beat either of the Ryzen 9 CPUs on desktop, in laptops where Ryzen 9 still means an 8 core 16 thread part with either one half or maybe even 1/4 the L3 cache of the desktop parts, the ecores are something that AMDs mobile parts don’t really have an answer to yet. (I know rumors are AMD has something for that but that’s still very much TBD.)
Hi Joe & Paul! Thanks again for the video! I have a suggestion: Please add a "cool tech product or story" in the Tech Briefs! It would a great way for me to learn about cool stuff in the tech world. Okay thanks again!
It would be nice to know what the actual numbers are etc. My 13900k has been flawless for 1.5 yrs. now. The fastest and most stable build I've ever had. Overclocked DDR - no problems at all.
My 14900k bought end of December 23 first seemed okay, besides some "Status access violations" every now and then in Chrome. In March became worse with random applications crashing, basically nothing remained open. Tried several bios versions and settings, lot of time wasted. Sent it back to my retailer and got a new one the same day. My temps are super low because of custom loop, so that's not the issue. The new one has been working fine so far. Has got better silicon rating according to the Asus uefi as well. Hopefully won't have to exchange it every 3 months.
The Nvidia report months ago about Intel CPUs crashing their code has been vindicated too. Intel has some serious questions to answer about the bad SKUs.
I must be so lucky that I should play the Lotto because I have a 13900ks and a 13700k for my son and no problems for the past 1.5 years almost. My buddy has a 13900k and had no problems either.
Maybe you are, I hope so. It seems like degradation based on thermals, the more you use the computer the higher the likelihood over time of it breaking down.
I use a 13900K and haven't had any issues yet, but I haven't updated my bios or motherboard drivers or anything and I only run my cpu at 5.1ghz and I've ran it in manual mode since day 1, since I never trusted motherboard manufacturers to apply a safe setting out of the box... fingers crossed it doesn't have any issues.
I've had no issues with my 14900K gaming build from months ago. Hopefully that continues to function as per normal. I don't recall anyone mentioning the average length of time when the degradation started occurring. Guess I'll have to read some articles.
@@soccersensation actually if you read and normalize wendel data its closer to 99% percent and some game dev event said it was 100%, event if its “only” 50% its really really big failure rate, if i was you, i will demand return and will just buy 12th gen or change to amd
My 13700k / 4090 build has been flawless for almost 2 years now. Started on Z790 ddr4 msi tomahawk then switched over to the ddr5 msi tomahawk months later when it was released. Contact frame since day one as well. 13700k oc to 5.6ghz on all 8 p cores, All 8 E core oc to 4.4ghz, Ring oc to 5.0ghz at 1.34v. Even the mem controller has been very solid. 32g.b Corsair rgb vengeance 6400 cl32 hynix A-Die oc to 7200 34-41-41-83 at 1.45v. On a msi z790 tomahawk. I use my system everyday 7 days a week for over 8 hours a day for work / gaming. I can't complain.
This is one of those few moments when you're glad you don't have the money to buy these high-end products. After so many years of trusting Intel I am tremendously disappointed with this news. I still have hope that in the next generation this will become a turning point.
Same, I'm on DDR4 though. Still beat 7800x3d when it should in balanced power plan. Power save a better R23 score of 18900. Not in gaming of course. But work. 30K is my max without a better cooler. When you are on a 6800xt there is way more advantage to FPS limiting and saving 125w of GPU usage, that the actual power draw of the 13700k isn't bad at all. Still loving those package 4W average idle usage, after hours on end.
My 13700k / 4090 build has been flawless for almost 2 years now. Started on Z790 ddr4 msi tomahawk then switched over to the ddr5 msi z790 tomahawk months later when it was released. Contact frame since day one as well. 13700k oc to 5.6ghz on all 8 p cores, All 8 E core oc to 4.4ghz, Ring oc to 5.0ghz at 1.34v. Even the mem controller has been very solid. 32g.b Corsair rgb vengeance 6400 cl32 hynix A-Die oc to 7200 34-41-41-83 at 1.45v. On a msi z790 tomahawk. I use my system everyday 7 days a week for over 8 hours a day for work / gaming. I can't complain.
The problem seems to be in the memory controller. For some reason it seems to run hotter than everything else. A lot hotter. Delidded a CPU and looked at it at standby power and the memory controller was a hotspot even with the CPU not doing anything. The IR video showed it hotter than anything else and that appears to match at least most of the symptoms.
I have a 13900K. I noticed some weird behavior starting a couple months back where over time my memory usage would creep up while idle. A restart would lower it back down. I thought I had a memory leak that I couldn't nail down so I reformatted 2 weeks ago. All was good for the first week or so. But a couple days ago I noticed that I think its starting to do it again. I was thinking it was related the Gigabyte Command Center (GCC) software. But now I'm not so sure. The worst thing is, its very hard to be certain that its a CPU issue and not a software, motherboard or RAM issue.
I don't know why anyone bought 13th or 14th gen in the first place, even before these issues arose. AMD has been better in basically all regards - heat, efficiency, platform longevity, performance. And now those intel users can't even get stable systems with lower clocks and performance than promised. I feel for these people who basically got scammed.
@@webtiger1974PTGthat’s a bit excessive. Intel does still have some niches this generation. For example if you look up comparaisons of the 7800 and 7800x3d vs i7’s you’ll see people recommending that it boils down to X3D for gaming and i7 for productivity. Similarly in laptops there is a major hole in AMDs lineup that i9s fill. The i9 (mobiles) have more multithreading performance than AMDs 8 core 16 thread monolithic chips like the 6900hx - 7740hs - 8740hs for a modest hit to battery life without completely sacrificing battery life like the 7950hx3d and it’s 100 minutes or less battery life. Of course, that all assumes that the parts work and don’t fail, which it’s looking like isn’t exactly a guarantee.
@@webtiger1974PTG It makes very little sense to me tbh. I used to love Intel but after Zen 2 and 3s improvements there's no case (for consumer desktops) where it is worth buying Intel. With sockets lasting 2 years max, 300W+ TDPs needing insane cooling solutions and now these issues, I just don't understand how people can continue to ignore the writing on the wall.
That’s what happens when you turn a brand into a god, even when people saw Intel chips were no longer the best they keep buying, after years of high prices, customer abuse, high heat and now failing components. They love it, how many pc builds do you see where they are sticking Intel chips in them it’s hilarious 🤣🤣🤣.
Done with Intel. Ryzen and Radeon for my gaming needs and Mac for work. For my gaming needs Radeon cards are more than enough and decently priced unlike GimpVidea...I know they rule in AI but for my limited use cases like messing around occasionally in SD a 3060 is enough. It's 2024, I don't want my computer eating more power than my circular saw, why should I want that? Why should I be forced to use a car's engine radiator to cool down a stupid CPU in 2024? Why should I have to deal with stability issues and hardware failures after paying top dollar for this shite? Screw them. Time for these companies to take the some L's as usually it's only us, the consumers taking L's.
So if you were running AMD last year and your chip caught fire you'd have the same attitude toward them that you now do toward Intel. This isn't a company issue - it's a corporate vs consumer issue. Playing cheerleader for brands doesn't protect us consumers from those brands shitting on us. Think about it.
@@MadBlazer89 I'm saying brands don't matter, it's all corporations screwing us. It's Intel now, it was AMD before, it's gonna be AMD again later, then Intel after that. Get it? Stop fanboying corporations.
My 14900k lasted 2 weeks before I had severe wonkiness failed to extract nvidia drivers, failing to install software and video out of memory issues (no hard crashes) sent for RMA and replacement touch wood seems to be working
My first 14900K became so unstable after less than 2 months it was basically unusable. They honored the warranty, and sent me an RMA replacement, but it was a slightly annoying hassle. Took over a month to get it, which I figured, so I bought a second 14900K to keep my PC up and running, and it's been a night and day difference. Now I have a brand new, factory-sealed 14900K that I will probably sell to try and recoup some of the money from buying the second chip. Oh yeah, and it was unstable with all the power limits set to Intel factory.
3 месяца назад
Rarely game but use my i9-13900KF system mostly for photo processing and video, typically experience a crash every three weeks for no apparent reason. Sometimes I get a cluster of crashes (3 or less) but then good business for thee to four weeks. This is the most crash prone system I've ever owned regardless of processor used.
I do contract/vendor at intel. I have worked on site at one of the fabs for 12 years. the company is going to pot. they no longer have any focus and the culture has turned to more concerned about what bathroom to use, than making a good reliable product, they are chasing anything and everything and not doing the things that made them what they are/were!
I am so glad that I chose x670e platform instead of Z790. I honestly had some issues and regretted not getting Intel while using some programs that would utilize Intel iGPU acceleration.
Intel have lost me this year after nearly 20 years. I will run my 13600kf till I decide to upgrade but next upgrade will be an amd x3d chip of some description. I was hoping to go 14700k at some point to keep upgrade cost down but I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole now. My trust is lost.
Running the 14900k on the MSI z790 Tomohawk Max Wifi and conteplating if I should be worried since my games crashes quite often, I need to sent the ICCmax from 400A to 307A at 253 PL1=PL2 for it to stabilize and not crash. DDR5's run at 6000 with XMP enabled.
Wendell and Steve told viewers to get in touch because they have some recommendations for people to try (Steve hinted he is investigating another angle/probable cause at the moment).
There is a hidden setting in that bios. It is a voltage curve for your load line. Look up 'CPU' in your bios search engine and it will come up with most of the other vital settings. That curve is default to be an overvolt. *I have searched the bios over and cannot find that same setting. I have to look it up in the search engine. If anyone else ever changed that to a 5 - 7, that curve would kill any chances of hitting 5.5Ghz.
built my first pc ever last summer, really glad I stay with the 12th gen i7 and didn't move to the 13th or 14th gen when I built hubbies a few months later
@@lucasrem speaking from money and budget, CAMM2 Motherboard is cheaper than regular SoDimm because it uses less electrical circuit underneath the PCB, it uses less mounting mechanism (than compared to 4 dimms slots), but also more tight, it offers more physical Bus width than 4 dimms of DDR5 using just 1 module. And a single CAMM2 64GB module is cheaper than 16GB × 4 sticks of DDR5 while also faster. And offer tighter CAS Latency timings thanks to its physical advantages. Long story short, you save more money while getting more speed
Guess I got lucky and instead of going with a 13th gen i9 when I wanted to upgrade I decided to go 11900k because at the time microcenter was selling a combo deal of cpu high end msi z590 mobo and 64gb ram for $380. It's far more cpu than I need and an added perk is that the 11900k has a super low system latency which games love along with the very strong single core performance. I'll be good for years to come.
I’m still running coffee lake because of these poor manufacturers’ quality assurance , ASUS (both motherboards and monitors) and MSI high end motherboards failing
I'm glad when I was getting ready to build my new PC last year, the 7800X3D came out with glowing reviews as I was about to pull the trigger on a 13900K system, and luckily the mobo issues came to the surface and were patched in the days after I ordered the mobo so luckily I got the patched bios on day one (though ASUS were sneaky about it claiming that you weren't covered by the warranty if you used the bios to fix the f'up they were responsible for) . Not only that, but the money I saved got me more ram and the extra I needed for a steam deck, so win win win it seems.
i do have a feeling Nvidia's new product market prices are about to get very low by the last quarter. Great video, again. your sarcasm in every intro has me rollin everytime.
I have a i7-13700K set to 153W and Tjmax set to 70°C (and disable most of the extra boosting technology). I was concerned about silicon degradation of these high wattage CPUs (I keep mine a long time e.g 25 years), but they should never have been clocked this high as default
Well, looks like AMD can redistribute their entire marketing budget to R&D, since nobody is doing a better job of selling AMD CPUs than Intel right now.
This feels vaguely similar to the nVidia power connector melting problem that just won't go away no matter how much the issue is talked about. Wonder if it's something to do with the e-core / p-core decision making that sometimes just bamboozles Windows into confusion and the wrong choice. Would be interesting to see the OS behind the crashes in a similar pie chart. BTW the "thumbs up" like insert was a bit of a shock. I'm watching this pre-watershed, and was not expecting... that. I laughed once I got over the shock.
When Pat Gelsinger promised to leave AMD in the rear-view mirror for good he probably should have also grabbed a map to make sure that he was actually going in the right direction 😂
He meant that AMD is laps ahead
Oh that's harsh....😂
Hahah spot on. 🤣
wdym? amd has had far worse bugs
@@najeebshah. 1) It's just a snarky joke
2) F with the whataboutism.
3) I can't think of a (relatively recent) AMD f-up that had a 100% failure rate
Intel really traded stability stability and temp, to beat AMD in cinebench by a few point and now might have lost not just gamer but server in their stupidity because they overreacted to competition
It's even worse than that. Those W680 chipset boards were running them at 125W maximum and they were still failing.
Man I been saying Intel was lost for 4 years and just got heckled by tech blog masses. Can't believe I'm reading this stuff now. It tooks years for popular opinion to move and the hate to simmer down for AMD fans.
Intel: "Why don't you git gud, losers?" *while slapping AMD in the face*
AMD: *slap Intel in the face after a decade of their abuse*
Intel: *Now suffering from PTSD and refusing to go therapy*
Meanwhile Nvidia is constantly struck in Top 10 anime battle with it's past self
No love for Intel here, but their server CPUs are still stable.
Game devs using K SKU CPUs in game servers is a kinda bad reflection on them.
@@incandescentwithrageHardly, it makes a lot of sense in some cases. Certainly not all of them, but some.
my 13900k unfortunately fell ill to this...OVER 6 MONTHS AGO! No one believed me at micro center...so annoying
Same
@@lord461was forced to use my fucking replacement plan prematurely
Micro center sold you a defective product and refused to honor their warranty?
@@HoldinContempt ima pay them a visit again. I used my replacement plan to replace my mobo AND cpu and swapped to am5
I had to delid my processor. Temps seemed to cause mine
I remember Wendell mentioned one of the tests that would fail was so small that it could be run solely on the CPU cache.
Beans Rise
You did replicate it, consistently ?
What he meant by run in the CASH ?
Wendle just talks a lot
@@lucasremwaffle
They were alluding that it might be the cache or the interconnect to it that's failing.
@@John.Philip.Tan876 no no, it's a cash problem and Intel wants everyone to move to the new sockets and CPUs!
/j
I'm playing around with mine now. Mine is right on the edge of stability and just another 100mhz on the cache frequency will cause a hard crash immediately.
I bought a 13900k when it launched. I spent months off and on trying to diagnose why it wasn't stable. I ended up having to drop my ram speed to ABSURDLY low speeds to get stability in any sort of testing. I could get no help from support and was told I was to blame. I just assumed I got very unlucky with a bad sample. Looks like I am done with intel.
I should also mention it go more unstable over time, requiring me to come back and underclock even more about a year later.
How many years you going to throw into a 1.8 year old cpu story.
Keep emailing them because I got blamed for overclock when I came back with it's a K version that overclock to 5.8 im getting a replacement Tomorrow and have 30 days to send defect one back to Intel
the price of the 12900K has gone back up at Microcenter, i wonder why? 🤔
@@MrSamadolfo Everything goes up this time of the year, so they can mark off at slack friday.
You have to increase voltage on the 13900k for it to stay stable sadly
"In the NASA headquarters from Interstellar" 😂
Ayooo Jarrod here!!!
Any thoughts if mobile CPUs are affected?
NASA is nothing more than a tax collector rockets cannot fly in space there is nothing for it to PUSH OR PULL any type of rocket into space would be free floating and not moving but keep voting and praying both an illusion just like space travel
Hmmm. I wonder where they could be, and where on earth are they getting this inside info? *Spots Steve playing with his lanyard.* 🤨
ofc not they re much more power limited @@mc_sim
My 13900k can't even run stock settings stable anymore. and it's been like 7 months of light use. I don't even benchmark or stress test.
its over broh, the whole platform is a dumpster fire, go 12gen or older 🙂
I'm so happy I do research when buying a CPU, buying the 7800x3d has been one of my best CPU purchases.
@@transformerstuff7029 Microcenter has that cpu in a bundle, its the cheapest way to get it if ur building a pc
You have to increase voltage for it to be stable, set it to "intel's failsafe" in the bios
My 12900k crashes at least once per day if I run on 5.2 Ghz (with water cooling etc.)
5.1 Ghz is stable.
Damn, intel absolutely dropped the ball on this. People expects Intel to be the pinnacle of stability while amd has become a meme on how unstable it is. But now, it's the other way around. Jumped to amd for the first time on the 7800x3d with a 6000mhz cl30 ram kit and it's been rock solid for the past 7 months. I hope Intel can fix this on the 15th Gen or people will jump ship soon; end users and enterprises!
it's been like a year since AMD chips were literally catching fire. They're never going to be seen as the pinnacle of stability. It's more likely that Intel has finally succumbed to ye olde diversity.
There were hit or miss with AMD CPUs (although I had tried them used).
It always makes me laugh when people try to picture Intel as stable and reliable. I only had problems since Intel began to fall behind and desperately tried to keep up with AMD.
Luckily I switched to AM5 last year and don't have to deal with random crashes anymore.
As far as it goes it only affects I9 so just don't be greedy for that if you need mixed use CPU.
@@StroggKingumy 13700k failed so your straight up wrong
I didnt just spend on a 13900KS but I got an 800$ mobo with a 4090 and cant get 2hrs of gameplay without a crash. This is gonna turn into a class action lawsuit.
that is my issue. even if Intel refunds my 13900k, I still have my Z790 Hero which means I'm stuck with 13th or 14th (12th is too slow) which is clearly defective.
You using 4 ram sticks or 2???? Try using just 2..... If so....
it will cost you less to get a 12700k for 200$ NEW, or switch to AMD.
@@warriorofice33 12700k is dog slow though
@@mehck2Not really? At the very least faster than the instability issues that stall you out completely
It’s not like it’s an i7-4770K and you’re back on DDR3. It’s just 2-3 generations old. Ryzen 2000 would still be fine going backwards from Ryzen 5000 but of course it’ll be a bottleneck if literally everything else is current. (Though a more apt comparison would be going Ryzen 3000 from Ryzen 7000 in terms of performance loss but they’re AM4 vs AM5 so of course different socket)
I can crash my 14900k 100% of the time by running handbrake. Latest bios.
Ugh, God. I’m sorry…
… I almost bought one, two weeks ago. The missus wouldn’t let me. I was unhappy with her, at the time. But now…?
@@rhythmandblues9302 the other half is always right 😂
@@rhythmandblues9302 Now I know why the prebuilt i9s are cheaper or at least the same price than the i7. Just yesterday, I came close to buying an MSI Aegis, i9-14900K AIO cooler, 32GB RAM, 2TB NVME with a 4080 super for $2300. Glad I had second thoughts.
@@rhythmandblues9302 don’t let her see you typing this. She will never let it go.
Disable multiplying works ?
I just ordered an i9-12900KF to replace that goddamn heat plate that is my i9-13900K. Thank God my Z790 motherboard can fit a 12th gen. I'm tired of riding the dragon. I regularly hit TjMax. It's gotten to the point I can't even use Unity any longer, and doing things like exporting videos from Premier causes my process to try to cook itself even if I'm using the GPU for everything that I can. I hit TjMax so much and it throttles so much as a result that I honestly get better results with my older 9th gen build. I NEVER hit TjMax on my previous build, and I actually have a better AIO cooler on this new build than I do with the 9th gen build. I've got aggressive curves on my fans and my poor pumps are working overtime just to keep it under 50c for light loads. Any heavy loads and I'm hitting 80c immediately and spiking in the 90s with the occasional dance with TjMax at 100c.
what cpu cooler you are using? if a simple one dont expect anything of it..
Do you use a contact frame?
Are you too slow to use thermal velocity boost?
BitwiseMobile
Mobile gaming machine ? Why not that 14900 F or a Xeon ?
contemplating what you did, just from a 14700k to 12900kf, But those temps on your config are a concern too. What AIO did you get (ie 280, 360 ect), what case, and what speed are you running you ram? Contract frame and thermal paste used?
So glad I went team Red this time. I've been an Intel guy my whole life. The introduction of Ryzen, combined with stuff like this, has swayed my opinion over time. 🤷♂
All the back yard renovation AND Tech News, too! Thank you, Joe and Paul! Everyone does their version of the Tech News, but your witty and sarcastic delivery ever reminding me that I am at the mercy of the manufacturers and vendors is second too none. While there isn't much that can be done, I can at least laugh about it while bending over and taking whatever they dish out while they line their pockets with cash.
Not right is an understatement for these processors. Numerous people have substantially underclocked and undervolted them and the 13900K and 14900K processors keep on having crashes.
I feel like its a user problem more then a poduction.. most ppl just under or overclocking ther cpu and they cry afther something is wrong..
@@evildarkeevildark5943 No, it's not a user problem, when servers using these chips have the same case of failures.
@@evildarkeevildark5943 some assume it's about cpu-cache conectivity, which was changed in 13 gen, that's why 12 gen has no problems
if W chipset has problems, and it is on 125W preset, then problem is processor itself not how people use it
edit: sometimes disabling e-cores helps, when e-core to cache connectivity is fried, that is, so it's more like 25% chance you will get problems in next 6 months no matter what
@@cheesyvoid3143 it must be the 13900k and the 14900k? because my 14600k are fine
@@evildarkeevildark5943 Word on the street is that all 13th and 14th gen cpus have the issue and will eventually be unstable but it does seem like the i3s and i5s will be old by the time that happens. i7s are a bit iffy right now but im sure in the next year or so we will see how well they hold up.
Bryan at TechYesCity has been on the subject of the 13900K/14900K design flaw for a long time.
Yeah, but if I recall correctly it wasn't about stability but I/O and latency issues in demanding scenarios that he chased down. Nevertheless, there seem to be multiple hardware bugs, design flaws or BIOS/firmware issues at play here. As I've just recently bought a 14700KF myself, I am worried. While I've seen some quirks, working around them yielded a fairly stable system so far. Fingers crossed that my sample belongs to the 50% that work fine. :)
@@seylaw Yeah but it wasn't even in demanding scenario's the Intel CPUs would lag out on a drag and drop, crap. Also your CPU might be fine now but there is the issue of CPUs from RPL degrading, especially the one with higher core counts, something to do with connections between the main dies and the i/o dies. I'd return it if I still could
@@kayk3639 While this is a plausible theory, we still need more evidence to be sure. It could also be a combination of several factors, e.g. the bending issue and QA issues. At least I use a contact frame from day 1 to be safe on that front. My problem is, my alternatives are limited as I want great gaming and high multi-core performance and want to keep using DDR4 RAM from a previous build to save costs. You can't get that combination from AMD for the great prices that I got my Intel gear for - 14700KF (339 EUR) and a NZXT N5 Z690 (109 EUR, both incl. VAT and shipping). AM4 is too old and performs rather poorly in newer games. And while I could get the 7800X3D for 339 EUR right now, AM5 mandates DDR5 RAM (100 EUR for 32 GB) and a decent motherboard would cost me 220 EUR. This makes the AM5 route simply not cost efficient enough while delivering slightly better gaming performance but significantly less productivity performance (which I need for code compilation tasks).
@@kayk3639 what dies? intel's RPL has a single die.
@@seylaw The I/O is the so-called "design flaw" he has commented on, along with others (GamersNexus, etc.).
"PC Canada, a store in Canada that sells PC's", thanks for that clarification Paul.
As an AMD adherent, I just want to tell Intel: Get your act together. I don't want AMD to be the only game in town, because I know they'll behave just like Intel did when _they_ were.
AMD Never acted like Intel did when they ran Tick-Tock. AMD were dominant for a few years in the early 2000's
feel the same way about apple m series cpus.
prolly risc people also watching this and thinking... what not to do.
@@richardsmith9615 AMD is just as crappy as intel when it comes to shady business tactics. don't kid yourself just because the other isn't doing as poorly. they are both sharks swimming in the same pond. AMD has been pushing shady licensing practices as of late.
Intel's silence is insane. They don't even care anymore.
It's probably multi layered problem, and the company has shareholders and silicon design competitors what do you expect, them saying all the case details just like that?
lawsuit is coming...
@@StroggKinguIntel shill
Need to keep it swept under a rug until arrow lake launches to keep selling as many raptor lake cpus as possible. When arrow lake launches they can declare raptor lake defective and tell everyone to buy arrow lake as a replacement.
@@mattspeer01 The shilling and feigned ignorance on this (on very videos explaining the issue) is hilarious.
The great tragedy here is userbenchmark! They will either spiral down in grief or their denial might grow so large as to consume whats left of their logic circuits!
its their ics failing. almost like after years of trouble getting 10nm to work they never got it perfected.
So at this point if intel does not make a product exclusively on TSMC then its trash thats not worth buying?
Will Arrow lake be on a different node? I was hearing intel 7 but if intel 7 is just a refined 10 then uhhhh.....
Intel gonna be ded
@@Azureskies01 7 is 10+++ but they branded it 7 as they say its comparable in square coverage.
i refuse your reality and replace it with my own!
@@HoldinContempt level1 was saying the data centers are seeing these chips dying in workstation hardware. 0 overclocking/volting. 50:50 chance that some part of it is failing. some its 1 core, others its the imc.
@@Azureskies01rumor is that Arrow lake is going to be on Intel 20A, which is three nodes ahead of Intel 7, with Intel 4 and Intel 3 in between.
And allegedly TSMC has said they expect Intel 20A/18A to be a N3 competitor.
Five nodes in four years baby!
Finally this is getting real traction. I thought I was going nuts with this 14900k. I can't push past 5.5Ghz no matter how much voltage I push to it. Doesn't get hotter than 70C at 5.5 with the proper voltage and no crashing.
Intel pooped their pants while chasing AMD performance LOL
pat even stole bunch of amd engineer to help them design cpus , jim keller , raja kadouri , and many more ........well that didnt help intel atall . lol , looks like ex amd engneers planted bugs in intel cpus , hahahahahah
@@parm2-x7h lol what... keller and koduri both joined before Pat was even back at intel. And Keller left in 2020, again before Pat came back
Not really, they just haven’t dropped the NM yet. Once they do, amd is going to be way behind.
@@cuzr702 LOL keep on dreaming
@@BleepBlop-rh9lm Look at the NM difference.
My 13900 will crash while doing nothing every once in a while
Same bro
Going to rma?
Being banned by game developers for hardware malfunctions is wild!
it's new to me, first I have hear of it
That alone is scary, makes you wonder how many other game companies have banned players for cheating that may have just been caused by hardware issues. If I was them I'd be looking into logs if they have them as to what CPU they may have been running.
The nail in the coffin Intel needs. I was thinking of purchasing a 14900k to give a last breathe to my mobo.Fuck it, i'll wait to see if AMD comes up with a 9800x3d...
They will. They will keep doing X3D CPUs until the tech matures to the point that non-V cache processors are the minority.
They already said the X3D 9000 series is coming, sometime after the launch of the vanilla chips. Supposedly they have made a lot of innovations in how the X3D works so it should be even more impressive than it has been on the 5000 and 7000 series CPUs. Intel is a joke.
@@mattspeer01 So what you are saying is AMD's non 3d is a joke as well.
@@kramnull8962 not at all. Non X3D is a cheaper alternative but still far better than anything Intel has on offer. Look at the latest benchmarks of the 9950X… 40% faster than a 14900K. Imagine the X3D versions…
@@mattspeer01 Same thing was said before the launch of the 7xxx as well.
Here's a statement about what happened then.
@ZeroB4NG
4 hours ago
welp, seems i picked the perfect time to jump from Intel to AMD when i bought into the 7800X3D hype instead of just the next "boring but reliable"-Intel... not so reliable anymore it seems.
I mean my Asus AM5 board had trouble booting with the first DDR5 kit i bought and i ended up buying another Kit, which sucked with the whole bios updates mess with burning up CPUs and boards and all that, but ... oh well.
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Intel will sweep this under the rug
It's never going to happen. 2 generations of the top series chips defective? swept under the rug? it's never going to happen.
@@mehck2yup, needs to be a total recall. The cpus are defective period. Beating around the bush and blaming everything else is not going to change that.
They can't it's years of CPU sales failing over the next 1-2 years with many already failing. They are refunding people now.
@@N4CR it’s absolutely crazy. I’ve blue screened so many times and had several errors from doing nothing basically. I’ve never had a cpu this bad
Meanwhile, in Great -Britain- Rainland, so far July has been a bit of a damp squib.
You import CPU's into the empire ?
I believe the phrase is 'damp squid'.
@@jm67x Nope. An ocean going animal being wet is hardly extraordinary.
First line of the Wikipedia entry for 'Squib (explosive)': "A squib is a miniature explosive device used in a wide range of industries, from special effects to military applications."
'Ere in't north o' England, t' phrase means sommut like _going off like a wet firework_ . Or t' opposite o' _keeping your powder dry_ .
It's great to see John Linneman not only give us digital foundry content, but also giving us the tech news, he works so hard.
Been a nice cool 14°C here in the UK all month with enough rain to save on using the shower 😂
Oh yeah?!? Well here in Houston, Texas it's 3:30am, the temperature is 80 (26.7 in commie units), the relative humidity is 85% and we've just had a hurricane. So it looks like our weather is just a whole lot better than yours! >:-(
same here across the channel in the Netherlands. record breaking rains all winter and it hasn't really stopped since....
also way too cold for mid July, had like 2 days of summer so far....
@wargamingrefugee9065 I see you use words that you don't understand lmfao 😂
@@joeymadden7456 Well I understand enough of them to pretty much know what I mean when I write them.
+37 C in shade, no electricity for 6 hours, then 3 hours of electricity, then the cycle repeats
Absolutely outstanding that he kept his composure on the paragraph following 3:30
The fact that they're talking about a new release of CPUs while their current re-release of CPUs (just renamed 13000 series) are broken and people are wondering if they'll even get their money back or a replacement... Amazing.
LIterally just bought a laptop with a 13900hx in it, now I'm debating sending it back.
Not the same.. also it’s related to 2 specific motherboard designs
I don't think the laptop SKUs are affected but the problem seems to be unrelated to motherboards
@@EndeavorabIe It's happening with every mobo available.
Laptop chips are different in architecture and use significantly less power, which means they're unlikely to degrade
@@EndeavorabIe Which motherboard designs? You mean W680 and Z680? They don't seem to have a ton in common, so that the issue occurs with server-grade hardware also seems to suggest that the issue is deeper than e.g. power limits.
It's not just that they suck? 😂 Man Intel innovation never stops. More free money from the government tho.
Bet you voted for it.
Those memes with Wendell and Steve were hilarious.
Netherlands here, what is this "sun" people speak of? Isn't that that orange disc in the sky I see rising every morning, only for it to dissapear a few hours later?
Same in the UK. No summer here.
ya know people, AMD is very much an option....im actually surprised anyone would go with Intel at this current time for anything, Epyc for servers, Threadripper for workstations and 7800X3D for gaming and all the super powerfull small stuff for handhelds....where does Intel even come into the picture atm?
The reason I went Intel was because it’s a laptop and these last few generations with ecores Intel pulled a uno reverse card and where before AMD had the lead in laptops with the first 8core/16thread laptop parts, now Intel is competing against that with 32 thread parts, and as someone who was coming from a multithreading starved 4core/4thread i5, 32 threads is intoxicating.
Also pretty sure that Intel had a lead in single threaded performance or 1% lows or something *in the laptop segment* , quick sync, and thunderbolt all for what was supposed to only be a trade off of 2 hours of battery life (8 hours for AMD vs what was supposed to be 5-6 hours for this gen Intel) it seemed the better deal.
Definitely feeling a little burned now though.
@@levygaming3133 Obviously it was your choice but I couldn't imagine buying an Intel laptop since 9/11th gen. Intel has innovated nothing since and they have done naught but pump power to the hungry CPUs for minimal gains.
For a laptop, this inefficiency has translated to ridiculous heat transfer. IDK how people continue to buy Intel knowing that their CPUs need almost 3x the power to compete, particularly on a battery powered machine.
@@davide4725 I mean it wasn’t that much more inefficient according to the reviews though. The Intel laptop got 5 or 6 hours of video playback depending on the reviewer whereas the competing AMD chip got 8. Ideally 2 hours for twice as many threads seemed like an easy decision.
Also this was mobile, before the x3d “laptops” were a thing, and AMD has reduced cache on their normal laptop chips. And so if I remember correctly, Intel beats non-X3D chips and X3D beats Intel. And so when you then reduce the cache even further, I seem to remember Intel comparing quite favorably.
I didn’t just blindly buy Intel because “I only trust Intel because it’s all I’ve ever used”, I did actually put a lot of research into this and actively bought it in spite of my previous Intel CPU. Also because the laptop that made the most sense for me ultimately didn’t (and still doesn’t) have an AMD equivalent option.
Edit: you’ve been very polite, I just take issue with “Intel has not innovated” and especially saying Intel hasn’t innovated since just before the last time they actually innovated. I had a skylake CPU without hyper threading from back when Intel wanted to pretend that 4 cores aught to be enough for anybody, and just like Ryzen forced Intel to actually compete and stop gatekeeping hyper threading, E cores have been a game changer and while even with the Ecores Intel still can’t beat either of the Ryzen 9 CPUs on desktop, in laptops where Ryzen 9 still means an 8 core 16 thread part with either one half or maybe even 1/4 the L3 cache of the desktop parts, the ecores are something that AMDs mobile parts don’t really have an answer to yet. (I know rumors are AMD has something for that but that’s still very much TBD.)
Frank Hill looks at Intel “That boy ain't right. I tell you what.”
Hwat*
*Hank Hill
AMD must be rubbing their collective hands with unabashed glee.
7800XD dancing in the hyper lane to the bank.
I have a 12700K and sooooo glad i didn't wait to build after this news.....
I really appreciate Steve and the whole gamersnexus team. Thanks for being a positive part of the pc community as well Paul!
Hi Joe & Paul! Thanks again for the video! I have a suggestion: Please add a "cool tech product or story" in the Tech Briefs! It would a great way for me to learn about cool stuff in the tech world. Okay thanks again!
So, hanging onto my 12900K and just setting it in the goodies cabinet was a smart move on my part, instead of selling it as I considered doing.
It would be nice to know what the actual numbers are etc. My 13900k has been flawless for 1.5 yrs. now. The fastest and most stable build I've ever had. Overclocked DDR - no problems at all.
My 14900k bought end of December 23 first seemed okay, besides some "Status access violations" every now and then in Chrome. In March became worse with random applications crashing, basically nothing remained open. Tried several bios versions and settings, lot of time wasted. Sent it back to my retailer and got a new one the same day. My temps are super low because of custom loop, so that's not the issue. The new one has been working fine so far. Has got better silicon rating according to the Asus uefi as well. Hopefully won't have to exchange it every 3 months.
The Nvidia report months ago about Intel CPUs crashing their code has been vindicated too. Intel has some serious questions to answer about the bad SKUs.
That failure rate...
Yeah!
That is really bad.
ok that mini PC-Keyboard is so impressive it almost makes up for the fact is a 60% keyboard
I must be so lucky that I should play the Lotto because I have a 13900ks and a 13700k for my son and no problems for the past 1.5 years almost. My buddy has a 13900k and had no problems either.
I have a 14700kf and am wondering the same. I have had no issues so far.
Maybe you are, I hope so.
It seems like degradation based on thermals, the more you use the computer the higher the likelihood over time of it breaking down.
Final product, Keyboard PC blew my brains out. Thank you for including that! $400-600 USD seems reasonable honestly for the specs!
I use a 13900K and haven't had any issues yet, but I haven't updated my bios or motherboard drivers or anything and I only run my cpu at 5.1ghz and I've ran it in manual mode since day 1, since I never trusted motherboard manufacturers to apply a safe setting out of the box... fingers crossed it doesn't have any issues.
I did crash 2 times then i did what you did and its beennfine so far
😒 Microcenter has raised the price on the 12900K bundle, expect 12th gen to hold their value better
I've had no issues with my 14900K gaming build from months ago. Hopefully that continues to function as per normal. I don't recall anyone mentioning the average length of time when the degradation started occurring. Guess I'll have to read some articles.
In some article it’s reported 100% failures rate, so it’s just a matter of time
@@wahdangun It was said to be 50%. The average length of time before issues started occurring for those 50% is what I will be researching.
@@soccersensation actually if you read and normalize wendel data its closer to 99% percent and some game dev event said it was 100%, event if its “only” 50% its really really big failure rate, if i was you, i will demand return and will just buy 12th gen or change to amd
My 13700k / 4090 build has been flawless for almost 2 years now. Started on Z790 ddr4 msi tomahawk then switched over to the ddr5 msi tomahawk months later when it was released. Contact frame since day one as well. 13700k oc to 5.6ghz on all 8 p cores, All 8 E core oc to 4.4ghz, Ring oc to 5.0ghz at 1.34v. Even the mem controller has been very solid. 32g.b Corsair rgb vengeance 6400 cl32 hynix A-Die oc to 7200 34-41-41-83 at 1.45v. On a msi z790 tomahawk. I use my system everyday 7 days a week for over 8 hours a day for work / gaming. I can't complain.
im switching to amd for my next build i was alraedy giving up on intel after they decided to rip us off with their e core scheme
GN : do a video about ''bad intel''
every tech youtuber : okey we got new content .
This is one of those few moments when you're glad you don't have the money to buy these high-end products. After so many years of trusting Intel I am tremendously disappointed with this news.
I still have hope that in the next generation this will become a turning point.
hope you good paul and family :)
I have been running a 13700k for 4 months, not a problem..
My 13700 is fine as well, but my 13900 crashes constantly regarless of bios revision or settings.
Same, I'm on DDR4 though. Still beat 7800x3d when it should in balanced power plan. Power save a better R23 score of 18900. Not in gaming of course. But work.
30K is my max without a better cooler.
When you are on a 6800xt there is way more advantage to FPS limiting and saving 125w of GPU usage, that the actual power draw of the 13700k isn't bad at all.
Still loving those package 4W average idle usage, after hours on end.
My 13700k / 4090 build has been flawless for almost 2 years now. Started on Z790 ddr4 msi tomahawk then switched over to the ddr5 msi z790 tomahawk months later when it was released. Contact frame since day one as well. 13700k oc to 5.6ghz on all 8 p cores, All 8 E core oc to 4.4ghz, Ring oc to 5.0ghz at 1.34v. Even the mem controller has been very solid. 32g.b Corsair rgb vengeance 6400 cl32 hynix A-Die oc to 7200 34-41-41-83 at 1.45v. On a msi z790 tomahawk. I use my system everyday 7 days a week for over 8 hours a day for work / gaming. I can't complain.
@@SVT_LIGHTNING built mine in the spring just got a 4080 super!
I've had mine for about a year, no problems yet... *knocks on wood*
But I have seen reports of 13700k CPUs also having issues, unfortunately.
Thanks, Paul!!
Love you!!
The problem seems to be in the memory controller. For some reason it seems to run hotter than everything else. A lot hotter. Delidded a CPU and looked at it at standby power and the memory controller was a hotspot even with the CPU not doing anything. The IR video showed it hotter than anything else and that appears to match at least most of the symptoms.
I'm so glad that I got a 12900K bundle at a great price, when the 13900K launched. I didn't miss out on much.
Ha! That frame grab you got of Wendel has him looking like Dr. Strangelove. Absolutely perfect.
Intel's CEO is dreading there might be a Steve under his bed.
Excellent summary of Wendell's findings. Thanks!
I have a 13900K. I noticed some weird behavior starting a couple months back where over time my memory usage would creep up while idle. A restart would lower it back down. I thought I had a memory leak that I couldn't nail down so I reformatted 2 weeks ago. All was good for the first week or so. But a couple days ago I noticed that I think its starting to do it again. I was thinking it was related the Gigabyte Command Center (GCC) software. But now I'm not so sure. The worst thing is, its very hard to be certain that its a CPU issue and not a software, motherboard or RAM issue.
3:31 I died. Well played.
I don't know why anyone bought 13th or 14th gen in the first place, even before these issues arose. AMD has been better in basically all regards - heat, efficiency, platform longevity, performance.
And now those intel users can't even get stable systems with lower clocks and performance than promised. I feel for these people who basically got scammed.
Because they are fanboys
@@webtiger1974PTGthat’s a bit excessive. Intel does still have some niches this generation.
For example if you look up comparaisons of the 7800 and 7800x3d vs i7’s you’ll see people recommending that it boils down to X3D for gaming and i7 for productivity.
Similarly in laptops there is a major hole in AMDs lineup that i9s fill. The i9 (mobiles) have more multithreading performance than AMDs 8 core 16 thread monolithic chips like the 6900hx - 7740hs - 8740hs for a modest hit to battery life without completely sacrificing battery life like the 7950hx3d and it’s 100 minutes or less battery life.
Of course, that all assumes that the parts work and don’t fail, which it’s looking like isn’t exactly a guarantee.
@@webtiger1974PTG It makes very little sense to me tbh. I used to love Intel but after Zen 2 and 3s improvements there's no case (for consumer desktops) where it is worth buying Intel. With sockets lasting 2 years max, 300W+ TDPs needing insane cooling solutions and now these issues, I just don't understand how people can continue to ignore the writing on the wall.
That’s what happens when you turn a brand into a god, even when people saw Intel chips were no longer the best they keep buying, after years of high prices, customer abuse, high heat and now failing components. They love it, how many pc builds do you see where they are sticking Intel chips in them it’s hilarious 🤣🤣🤣.
Done with Intel. Ryzen and Radeon for my gaming needs and Mac for work. For my gaming needs Radeon cards are more than enough and decently priced unlike GimpVidea...I know they rule in AI but for my limited use cases like messing around occasionally in SD a 3060 is enough. It's 2024, I don't want my computer eating more power than my circular saw, why should I want that? Why should I be forced to use a car's engine radiator to cool down a stupid CPU in 2024? Why should I have to deal with stability issues and hardware failures after paying top dollar for this shite? Screw them. Time for these companies to take the some L's as usually it's only us, the consumers taking L's.
You took the biggest L by using a MAC.
So if you were running AMD last year and your chip caught fire you'd have the same attitude toward them that you now do toward Intel. This isn't a company issue - it's a corporate vs consumer issue. Playing cheerleader for brands doesn't protect us consumers from those brands shitting on us. Think about it.
@@mehck2 you are trying to contradict me but then repeat exactly what I said.
@@MadBlazer89 I'm saying brands don't matter, it's all corporations screwing us. It's Intel now, it was AMD before, it's gonna be AMD again later, then Intel after that. Get it? Stop fanboying corporations.
@@mehck2 Again, WHERE did I fanboyed for corporations? It's the second time you call me a fanboy. All I said is that I am done with Intel.
That folding PC is pretty cool!
My 14900k lasted 2 weeks before I had severe wonkiness failed to extract nvidia drivers, failing to install software and video out of memory issues (no hard crashes) sent for RMA and replacement touch wood seems to be working
If it's too hot for you just come to the UK, it's the coldest summer in years.
My first 14900K became so unstable after less than 2 months it was basically unusable. They honored the warranty, and sent me an RMA replacement, but it was a slightly annoying hassle. Took over a month to get it, which I figured, so I bought a second 14900K to keep my PC up and running, and it's been a night and day difference. Now I have a brand new, factory-sealed 14900K that I will probably sell to try and recoup some of the money from buying the second chip. Oh yeah, and it was unstable with all the power limits set to Intel factory.
Rarely game but use my i9-13900KF system mostly for photo processing and video, typically experience a crash every three weeks for no apparent reason. Sometimes I get a cluster of crashes (3 or less) but then good business for thee to four weeks. This is the most crash prone system I've ever owned regardless of processor used.
I do contract/vendor at intel. I have worked on site at one of the fabs for 12 years. the company is going to pot. they no longer have any focus and the culture has turned to more concerned about what bathroom to use, than making a good reliable product, they are chasing anything and everything and not doing the things that made them what they are/were!
"I dont know, ask me tomorrow."
Translation: "I do know, but embargos prevent me from saying i know"
I am so glad that I chose x670e platform instead of Z790. I honestly had some issues and regretted not getting Intel while using some programs that would utilize Intel iGPU acceleration.
Intel have lost me this year after nearly 20 years. I will run my 13600kf till I decide to upgrade but next upgrade will be an amd x3d chip of some description. I was hoping to go 14700k at some point to keep upgrade cost down but I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole now. My trust is lost.
Running the 14900k on the MSI z790 Tomohawk Max Wifi and conteplating if I should be worried since my games crashes quite often, I need to sent the ICCmax from 400A to 307A at 253 PL1=PL2 for it to stabilize and not crash. DDR5's run at 6000 with XMP enabled.
Wendell and Steve told viewers to get in touch because they have some recommendations for people to try (Steve hinted he is investigating another angle/probable cause at the moment).
There is a hidden setting in that bios. It is a voltage curve for your load line. Look up 'CPU' in your bios search engine and it will come up with most of the other vital settings. That curve is default to be an overvolt. *I have searched the bios over and cannot find that same setting. I have to look it up in the search engine.
If anyone else ever changed that to a 5 - 7, that curve would kill any chances of hitting 5.5Ghz.
loved the bit about steve!
I remember a few years ago Intel patented self-degrading/recycling CPUs. I see they implemented it finally.
built my first pc ever last summer, really glad I stay with the 12th gen i7 and didn't move to the 13th or 14th gen when I built hubbies a few months later
Personally, I can't wait for a widely available CAMM2 Motherboard. Both Intel and AMD
niezzayt
SO-DIMM, you need removable memory back
Why you need that ? noy happy on what u use now ? or just need upgrades as a hobby ?????
@@lucasrem speaking from money and budget, CAMM2 Motherboard is cheaper than regular SoDimm because it uses less electrical circuit underneath the PCB, it uses less mounting mechanism (than compared to 4 dimms slots), but also more tight, it offers more physical Bus width than 4 dimms of DDR5 using just 1 module.
And a single CAMM2 64GB module is cheaper than 16GB × 4 sticks of DDR5 while also faster. And offer tighter CAS Latency timings thanks to its physical advantages.
Long story short, you save more money while getting more speed
@@lucasrem oh, and don't forget, Single module of CAMM2 already counted as Dual Channel.
Not Single Channel.
G'day Paul & Joe,
5:07 that pic was Brilliant 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
So happy I chose to go AMD for the first time in my life and went with a 7800X3D on my latest build.
lol that intro was awesome!
Guess I got lucky and instead of going with a 13th gen i9 when I wanted to upgrade I decided to go 11900k because at the time microcenter was selling a combo deal of cpu high end msi z590 mobo and 64gb ram for $380. It's far more cpu than I need and an added perk is that the 11900k has a super low system latency which games love along with the very strong single core performance. I'll be good for years to come.
The tech news theme is the waking up on sunday morning fanfair of my life!
Guess I'll stay with my i9-9900K then.
I’m still running coffee lake because of these poor manufacturers’ quality assurance , ASUS (both motherboards and monitors) and MSI high end motherboards failing
I'm glad when I was getting ready to build my new PC last year, the 7800X3D came out with glowing reviews as I was about to pull the trigger on a 13900K system, and luckily the mobo issues came to the surface and were patched in the days after I ordered the mobo so luckily I got the patched bios on day one (though ASUS were sneaky about it claiming that you weren't covered by the warranty if you used the bios to fix the f'up they were responsible for) . Not only that, but the money I saved got me more ram and the extra I needed for a steam deck, so win win win it seems.
Imagine still being an Intel fanboy.
I watching you userbenchmark.
Muserbenchark
Superbirthmark
Why are they selling stock because AI is utter BS, other than coping real art and real people it SHAT.
i do have a feeling Nvidia's new product market prices are about to get very low by the last quarter.
Great video, again. your sarcasm in every intro has me rollin everytime.
I have my 13900k limited to 160w with heavy undervolt.
It runs well for the task it should do. But I have done this since the start
I have a i7-13700K set to 153W and Tjmax set to 70°C (and disable most of the extra boosting technology). I was concerned about silicon degradation of these high wattage CPUs (I keep mine a long time e.g 25 years), but they should never have been clocked this high as default
@@peterwstacey Why not set up thermal velocity boost in XTU?
@@kramnull8962 It's doing dev work in Linux. Lots of COM ports on PCIe slots and then analysis of results in python, that kind of stuff 👍
@@kramnull8962 it's running Linux and we need stability more than speed for this particular dev work
@@kramnull8962 it's running Linux for Dev work. Easier to do it in the BIOS for that.
Here in southern Nevada we had our hottest day ever a few days ago. 120°... It was brutal
Sand gets hot.
That mini-PC is very cool
Well, looks like AMD can redistribute their entire marketing budget to R&D, since nobody is doing a better job of selling AMD CPUs than Intel right now.
Thanks for the tech news! I can't think of a better way to cap off my birthday 😁
I bought a 14900k awhile ago for my build and now I'm debating weather or not to use it. Amd switch possibly??
4:30 note to self, only upgrade to a 13600k or 14600k from my 12400f when the time comes 🤣
Or Ryzen *shrugs*
@@TheHighborn If you can jam an AMD CPU in the LGA 1700 socket.
Are the small IPC and CA 1Ghz clock boost going to be enough of a performance increase to matter at all at that point?
Yep, same here
@@taavikiisk it probably would work longer than a 13900/14900k
This feels vaguely similar to the nVidia power connector melting problem that just won't go away no matter how much the issue is talked about.
Wonder if it's something to do with the e-core / p-core decision making that sometimes just bamboozles Windows into confusion and the wrong choice. Would be interesting to see the OS
behind the crashes in a similar pie chart.
BTW the "thumbs up" like insert was a bit of a shock. I'm watching this pre-watershed, and was not expecting... that. I laughed once I got over the shock.
It happens in Linux too. It’s not that.
Does not sound like they are just faulty it sounds like a design issue