Welcome, O’Connor-Heads! (That’s the name we landed on, right?) thanks so much for tuning in! Hope you’ll sub and stick around for some more spiritually stimulating and thought-provoking conversations like this one 🙏 what was your favorite part of the episode?? 👇
The complexity conversation around 38:00 was one of the easiest to grasp versions of that conversations. I appreciate the skill of each of you to make it so (seemingly) simple!
Alex seems much more jollier in this interview than in others. Much more relaxed, comfortable and enthusiastic. Really happy to see him this way. Must be refreshing to take a break from all those perspective sharing/defending discussions and be in a more relaxed setting with normal conversation for once. As a believer he's one of my go-to athiest when I want to understand the criticism of my faith better. Great interview Dwight!
Do you have anyone like him on the Christian side? Not looking for any gotchas just interested in someone who actually takes atheists seriously but isn't an atheist himself.
@@Archanox Dan McClellan is an interesting example of someone with a particular set of beliefs but who also isn't afraid of what the information says. Very interesting guy, although I guess for many people he wouldn't count as a Christian enough.
First Rainn goes on Alex's show, then Alex goes on Rainn's show . . . This is soooo coool. I love seeing good people support each other. I wish more of the world was like this. I've been watching Alex ever since he started his cosmic skeptic channel and it fills me with joy that he's made such an impact and is getting much more renown.
As a Christian, I admire the conversations Alex has had and his research into the Bible. It's hard to believe how young he is with his depth of knowledge!
I also agree! My gut instinct though is that Alex already knows that he believes in Jesus, but you can make a good career and good entertainment out of what he is doing. I can't help but feel that he is already leaning towards God making himself known in Jesus, but just playing devils advocate because it's fun, entertaining and he is still working through the details of his faith etc. I could be totally wrong in my gut instinct here of course, but time will tell 💯
The biggest issue with NDEs is twofold. One, is that we know how good the brain is at filling in the gaps. This makes complete sense when we see how everyones NDE correlates to their own experiences, and not some unified singular experience. The second is that many people who have a NDE also experience nothing. Again, there is no singular experience that happens. SOME people see loved ones. Others dont.
Was excited to see the two of you come together for a discussion. I wish more philosophical podcast episodes were like this one. I love when intellectually curious people come together to explore ideas without the emotional burden of proving their own view is correct. Thank you for bringing conversations like this to us, Rainn!
I could listen to you two all day and night. You don't bring that "vs." "destroy" spirit with you, you just talk respectfully. Alex is incredible smart and knowledgable, and Rainn is cool as hell and his questions are plain brilliant!
I agree with that. A lot of people also seem to "like" as long as he doesn't say something they disagree with. Then he is immediately a huge "disappointment" and "insincere" and whatnot. Like the recent Wess Huff thing.
@@Archanoxthat’s not true. He says a lot of things theists disagree with but they like him because unlike other atheist speakers (like Matt dillahunty, for example) he isn’t a raging condescending douche.
@@etaylor8028 Sure he says things theists disagree with, I mean things like the Wess Huff situation. He is actually objectively right with his critique on Wess...well misrepresenting the dead sea scrolls. And yes I am not particularly fond of people like Dillahunty, I get that.
Such a heart-warming conversation! Love to see people questioning things not just for the sake of the argument but to just truly make sense of this life we live. Thank you!
I’m reminded of how curiosity begins young and doesn’t really ever leave us… the process of searching can take us to such beautiful places. When we can join someone in their journey and share the experience, it can really bring deep delight to the soul. We are made for discovery… we are made for meaning. We are made to search together. Love what you do, Alex and Rainn 🧐🫨😍🙃😇
What do you mean you are a fan of his work? That's like, being Charlie Brown and trying out to be a professional field goal kicker, and still using Lucy to hold the ball.
Finished watching “Reclaiming Spirituality”, the talk you had with Alex a few months ago. In it, you asked him to be a guest for this very interview. I’m surprised and happy that it’s here so soon!
@@SoulBoom Religion is astrology and you are sick for entertaining this trash. Nothing has done more harm to humanity than religion, which is LITERALLY astrology and everyone knows it. You are taking advantage of the mentally ill you sick man.
Awesome pod man! As a Muslim, I'm beginning to believe that experience and cooperation with raw nature is the only true belief in God. The faith and patience required to surrender to nature are qualities we no longer use or require in a fast-paced modern civilization. Therefore, I think that about 90% of global population don't really "believe" (sadly, myself included). The farmers, bedouins, Amish, and whoever lives off the land, are certainly better believers than I am, irrespective the name, colour, and language the religion they follow. Just a hunch.
When you consider our modern living we have strive to put a barrier between ourselves and the wild. Lighting to provide light after sundown, heating to stave off winter, and air conditioning to elevate summer heat. We eat the same meals all year round, rather than seasonal etc.
It's funny because I got to this same point of view via mereological nihilism (I started thinking about it after Alex and William Lane Craig discussed it) and thinking about the refutation of the arguments that the mind is separate. I'm not sure we can say that we are completely separate, I think we're only partially separate.
@@fang_xianfu Very interesting. While I can't say I'm familiar with that philosophy, I do often believe that the human mind is, in fact, both the Cartesian Demon (in that our thoughts, senses, and perceptions are not rooted in reality), and the Demiurge (in that it crafts our mental perceptions, and literally crafts our physical world). I truly believe the Abrahamic faiths are talking about the human brain when referencing Satan. And I do not think the universe (or nature, or reality) owes the human brain its comprehensibility (such as our erroneous philosophical, scientific, and civilizational pursuits). Rather, we owe it our surrender and cooperation, like any tree or animal. The brain is nothing more than a survival organ, ensuring our life by way of necessary illusions. Thus, Satan is the Angel of Life. The Paradox of Life is that by pursuing it, you die. But pursuing death, you live.
Religion is tied to a place, to an environment. Though I often ask myself why monotheism emerged in the desert, but Eskimos, living in another harsh and mostly minimal so to say environment, did not come to the same conclusion as the abrahamic religions. Sure, the tribes of the desert also encountered the opposite, meaning the oasis, the delta of a river, and thus developed an idea of Paradise, and an ideal better world from all points of view. Today we can experience and survive almost every earthly environment - except the depth of the ocean for the moment - but the connection with nature is, as you say and we all know it, lost.
Love is that profound experience of the most intense care towards another individual, rooted in the acknowledgment of their vulnerability as a sentient being amidst all the complexities and uncertainties of existence.
Will definitely watch this when I get home, but I always enjoy listening to respectful conversations. Sadly so many discussions nowadays are not respectful and often not even discussions anymore.
I've been following Alex since he was with the new atheist movement. I'm older than him but have followed his journey in a very similar way. Seeing him evolve and feeling the evolution in myself has been exciting, enjoyable, and almost, unifying? In a way it just makes me feel like, hey, there are people out there showing the right way to do it. The way I engage with topics has been improved by following his journey. His conversations have forced me to be better. Plain and simple. Not to mention the way I engage with these topics in my playwriting has become significantly more nuanced. I love these talks. I'll be sticking around!
I like listening to Alex as a Christian and hearing his perspective why he feels I am wrong. Solidifies the things I do not know about God and it makes me find out more.
Regarding the atheist spiritualist - this is pretty much how I identify. The most useful definition for spirituality that I've found is ones relationship with unknowables. There are certain things that we simply are not equipped to know, such as what happens to our consciousness after death. Forging a relationship with these things that we can't know, somehow reconciling them with your world view otherwise - that's the basis of spirituality. Religion, at least organized religion, I see as a one-size-fits-all attempt to almost prescribe spirituality. I truly believe that spirituality is a deeply personal thing, arrived at through introspection. No one's spirituality, their relationship with these "unknowables" is going to be the same.
@@kokemon84 Let's try that again eh? I didn't say unknown, I said unknow~able~. A critical difference. We all accept that, at some level, things become unknowable. From simply being impossible to observe, such as consciousness after death, to epistemological limits. Eventually, someone broadening their understanding of the world will butt up against these limits. These things that we simply cannot, as humans, know. You can either choose to ignore these things, or forge some relationship with them. It seems like a common thread for most religions and life philosophies is coming to some kind of understanding on how these things might work. That understanding is what I define as "spirituality". Again, nothing to do with what is currently unknown. That's the realm of hard sciences, not spirituality.
Love is "just neurons firing" and that in itself is mind boggling and profound. It's all a matter of how you phrase it though - put a "just" before a statement and that automatically makes something feel less important. A materialist viewpoint doesn't reduce or negate the wonder and beauty of existence. Everything we understand about reality comes from a scientific perspective that is rooted in the objective material world, everything else is just superstition. (This is of course is just my opinion). Note: I haven't listened to the conversation yet, just responding to the video description. I'm a big fan of you both by the way, always enjoy hearing your thoughts.
Wow. Alex explaining how computers would be inconceivable just a few hundred years ago… makes me realize that just because the universe developing naturally seems inconceivable doesn’t mean it is.
@@ameyers67 As far as a theory of creation? Because evolution itself certainly exists. You see it in everything from bacteria and viruses to metamorphosis in frogs to other animal species over the course of long-term human examination showing new evolutionary traits over years or decades. I think the crux of the question is,'Where did our patterned existence come from?' Because it certainly didn't come from nothing. And since it's patterned and intelligible, it must have a first cause.
The watch argument always turns from "who made this?" and into "I know who made this!" Reveals our bias more than it actually investigates how things come into being.
I suggest “friendly exmuslim” if youre looking for more discussions. For muslims, i guess you could watch Saajid Lipham and yusufponders, i suggest them because they dont have the ali dawah/mohammed hijab style of fake confidence and loudness but theyre more moral values oriented as opposed to empirical evidence oriented
@@enigmaticaljedi6808it always amazes me that people actually think all Christians have no rationality or skepticism. All the billions that have become Christians over the course of history. So stupid. 😂
Hi Alex, I have a question for you: If you open Paint in your computer, draw a triangle, and save the triangle in a png, when you turn off the computer, would you be able to find the triangle inside the computer just by cutting it open? Do you think this implies that the triangle is immaterial? Decoding of signal and data in a specific shape, or form, or color, is perfectly material, as far as I am concerned. This is why I think you are too generous with that point being detracted from a materialistic worldview. Regarding consciousness: it can easily be explained as an emerging property. Exactly like a bee-hive is much more complex than a single bee.
Yes thats what i always thought aswell! Also, trying to deconstruct the thing(consciousness)which you need to deconstruct things. Sounds like a paradox and therefore probably is one of the most difficult things to do for humans. Its like trying to understand what space and time is as a whole, while beeing bound by it. Its a mystery which i think is almost impossible to comprehend and investigate. In the past Alex i feel like was more comfortable pointing out that there are just things we cant really investigate, but now he opens up to supernatural, immaterial realities which i think is foolish.
yes, this. he always uses this argument without ever addressing the counterargument if you know what you're looking for you can in fact find the triangle. imagine simpler computer - a calculator, and you store a number in its memory. if you cut it open you can measure the voltage differences in the memory, which gives you a binary number that you can convert into the original number you stored. we can do this because we built the calculators, we have the manuals. but we can simplify it further, imagine an abacus in which you store a number by moving a few beads, when you take it apart where is the material representation of the number? this may be what consciousness is, a pattern that we don't understand yet. this is as if we opened up a computer to look for the triangle but we didn't build the computer so we have no manuals and we don't even know what a triangle is
@@elshook09 completely agree with you, however I need to defend the devil (in this case Alex): I think the reason he is so set into this argument, is that even if we account for interpretation models, used to convert electric signal or whatever it would be, into a color, then where does the idea of colour comes from? And I think that the answer is to be found in the very fabric of reality, or perhaps into evolutionary boundaries, those are the reason why colours exist, in these types and numbers. Not because an abstract idea of "redness" exists in the world of ideas, as Alex so much desires. I think he doesn't address the counterargument because he genuinely didn't give it enough weight. What he de facto does, by conceding the existence of an immaterial "redness" is to use a god in the gap argument. Eventually he will need to deal with this. Together with his views on consciousness, and the argument of evolution providing evolutionary answers, and not real answers, in a materialistic worldview, which can all easily be disproven, yet he considers them "good arguments".
To continue with the bees... Consider what we believe to be the mechanism bees use to communicate the location of a source of pollen. If this 'dance' they do is the means of communication and minds are just interpretive, how could there be any objective communication in that interpreted 'dance'? Given the short life of a bee, is it realistic to expect this to be a learned interpretation or some intrinsic property?
I love to listen to Alex he always has something intelligent and well thought out to say. Sometimes it makes my head hurt, but it is always a well thought out argument.
Great interview! Really interesting conversation that leaves you with plenty to think about. I'm a big fan of Alex and loved seeing him as relaxed as he was. Props to Rainn for keeping it intelligently chill.
Alex, you mentioned that the biggest problem with materialism is that when you imagine things, you don’t actually have them inside your mind. But let me propose that you don’t need to, because everything is information. Even when you are looking at something that you believe to be real, your mind is only being stimulated by information, who is to say that the only way to stimulate our mind and “see” something is through our eyes. I say that the fact that you can imagine something that isn’t ”real” means that your mind can be stimulate by other type of information that does‘t come from your eyes. I am not a Materialist, but Information itself is just the arregement of matter, and to Interpret Information you don’t need to have a conciousness, Like Computers.
i am an atheist. and i do not think consciousness and feelings are illusions. I think they are very real. infact, i take my first person experiences very seriously. i just think all experiences, including my feelings and thoughts, are dependent on the wiring of my brain. so i am a materialist in that sense. because there are scientific evidences that suggests brain injury can alter the way you perceive reality and even, in extreme cases, your personality. and i know a lot of atheists that think like that too it's freewill I don't believe in. but that does not mean i cannot notice my human emotions and experience life.
Seems like believers tend to characterize atheism as having an inherent lack of awe for our universe, because if they did they couldn't not believe in a being who created it. In fact it's quite the opposite, they awe is the same… but it's from a different angle.
@kylehubbs651 provide evidence for the origin of life, provide evidence for consciousness, provide evidence for the precise detail involved to ensure life exists, including the mathematical precision in the alignment of the cosmos.
@@summan41man Atheists aren't the ones claiming they know the answers to all of the unknowns in nature yet (although we have some good ideas about each of the things you rattled off) --- but theists do make that claim they know! Provide evidence for your claim that a god exists and did all of those things you spouted out. That's the difference between atheists and theists. Atheists are comfortable saying "we don't know yet" while theists say "we don't know so it must be a god". Throughout human history countless unexplained natural phenomena have been attributed to gods --- movements of the cosmos, weather events, appearance of diseases and sickness, etc. Every single time when we've discovered what was the actual cause of those events its been a natural explanation not a supernatural one. Every time. Gods are a human placeholder for unknown knowledge. So you make the positive claim a god exists the burden of proof is with you to provide the evidence. We'll wait.
@@summan41man The difference between atheism (by way of skepticism) and theism is that when there is insufficient evidence to reach a conclusion the atheist says "we don't know yet" while the theist says "we don't know therefore god". Throughout human history unknown natural phenomena like movements of the cosmos, weather events, disease and sickness, harvests, etc. were given supernatural god explanations. Every single time we've been able to uncover what actually causes those phenomena the answer has been natural and not supernatural. Every. Single. Time. A god has been demonstrated to be the answer exactly zero times. Saying "we don't know so I can't imagine anything else explaining it besides a god" has a name - the fallacy from personal incredulity. We may not have every question in the universe solved yet but we make progress every day. The key is to wait until you can demonstrate an answer before arriving at a belief. And you apparently claim you have the answer to all of these questions. So why don't you provide your evidence of a god that will convince the rest of us? Because the people actually studying the origins of life, consciousness, cosmology, etc. overwhelmingly reject supernatural causes as the explanation. Go convince them too. We've chased gods away from mountain tops, under the sea, out of the sky and all the way beyond space and time. Finding new dark corners to hide in doesn't impress anyone who cares about learning the truth.
Praise God! After enduring numerous challenges, I'm now a proud homeowner, blessed with an incredible $155,000 monthly income. God's faithfulness has restored my family's happiness and prosperity, fulfilling His promises. Everything is falling into place, and I'm grateful for His unwavering love and provision. God bless America!
It is simply the digital market. That's been the secret to this wealth transfer. A lot of folks in the US amd abroad are getting so much from it, God has been good to my household Thank you Jesus
Ha, I just thought about how Alex is a kinda William James the way he synthesizes all people's experiences. Alex's own seeking and learning and journey and his great respect for all is a great example to all to listen, connect and learn from each other's experiences. Good job man. Peace.
I used to think people exaggerated the total shift in perspective when your child is born until I saw my son come out of my wife. I could feel the earth moving beneath my feet and my body felt like it was floating. There were definitely intense emotions, but the physical experience was borderline spiritual and totally unexpected. It was as if I was taking part of some very real ritual that I could feel changing my life in real time. Wild experience
@@zacshifler A possible alternate explanation is that evolutionary psychology provides us with a natural justification for intense emotional and rewarding experiences; especially when we propagate our own genetics or survive a near-death experience. Having said that, I don't think there's really any way to know for sure if these experiences are supernatural or purely part of our natural genetic code.
@tex959 I'm not even trying to offer an explanation. Only saying that I had a very acute experience that came out of nowhere. I'm not an emotional person (which may be why it hit me like a ton of bricks). The physical sensation I felt only lasted moments, but it certainly carried over into my sons life. It changed me. The only thing I can compare it to was a dream I had one night where my "soul" left my body like a kleenex from right between my eyebrows. It flew towards the sky fast like a jet. It spread out as it traveled further from my body. I could see the ground from the sky and eventually the earth from space. It lasted maybe 10 seconds but it was the only time I ever felt euphoria. I woke up seconds later wishing I could go back to that feeling. It's possible I stopped breathing as I have severe sleep apnea. Also possible my brain dumped dmt just once in my life while I was sleeping. I dont know. I do know that dream impacted me like very few events in my life and I can recall it with precision. The brain is weird. Life is weird
@@tinymcgoo1195 I wouldn't expect people to feel it. As I said, I didn't expect it when it happened. The point I was making was that the experience was totally out of my control. Like a panic attack, but positive
@rainn awesome work, but as a sound guy I couldn’t help but notice that the noise gate used was a tad aggressive and cut out some of Alex’s audio. For removing that hiss you can still use the gate, but you can also try the noise reduction process if you use audition or a denoiser. Amazing work as always, huge fan.
I think the reason he is fascinated is because the doctrine answers a lot of the questions that traditional Christianity doesn't. It's a bit disconcerting to see so-called Christians turn into Richard Dawkins and treat with scoffing and derision, anyone who deals with the claims of the LDS faith seriously. At least Alex is talking to Mormons instead of at them or about them.
58:39 I’ve actually had a NDE during my double lung transplant (I was born with Cystic Fibrosis.). I was in a dark room and there was a table in the distance that was lit. I walked over to see my great grandmother (who died when I was around 4), my mom’s dad who died in ‘95 (who I never met) and an empty chair. I asked if this was it and my Great Grandma without looking up said “Nope. Not yet.” And then I came to. My experience on bad acid was 10x worse. I thought I had died and went outside of my apartment and wondered around until my friend saw me and picked me up. The acid was WAY worse 😂
I like that Rainn is reaching out to understand atheism. Rainn, you should have a conversation with Matt Dillahunty from The Line (and Atheist Experience). He's an incredible communicator. Would love to see you and him have a chat.
No, no, he isn't. He's very inconsistent in his worldview. Have you not heard of the dillahunty dodge? He always goes around the question with "it doesn't convince me, and I don't really know what's true, and that's all i know, that i don't know"
Alex is light years ahead of Matt Dillahunty. Matt usually has an ax to grind and goes straight to debate mode. Alex is more about having a conversation of sharing and learning information
The best way to dissect Dillahunty's debate style is to flip the script. Would you say a devout christian granting themselves victory with "Im not convinced" is a good debator? You wouldnt. The notion that an interlocutor doesnt have to assert any belief structure and assumes his worldview as some form of default state is childish and ridiculous. Its like opening a debate with "For the sake of this debate lets assume I'm right and you're wrong, and we can start there."
color me enlightened. really enjoyed listening to alex here, after first seeing him on surrounded. and I say that as a judaism-curious catholic. especially great within rainn’s positive and measured world view. this intellectual AND positive vibe is so lacking in podcast land. anyway, thank you both. 🕊️🖤
Out of curiosity, what fascinates you about a conversion to Judaism as a Catholic? If this is what you are implying. Unless you mean the roots of your faith.
@ good question. not totally sure yet. sifting through the scripture, the politics, and culture of the time. learning about constantine (and preceding caesaropapacy) made me want more clarity. of course, i have also observed evangelical christianity stateside (grew up with it), and find it to be so perverted. honestly, I see a lot of pure evil there in mini-mega church land. and the cultural fruit 🍊from it raises my hackles. especially in the us, but christian nationalism is a global illness. i also need to be incredibly careful of my own confirmation bias having grown up with it. doesn’t change all the jesus feels though! i feel my faith deeply. physically, even. I just want to make sure that I serve the right master and He, hasn’t yet chosen to clarify that for me. thanks for asking.
44:38 - YES!!!!!! EXACTLY RIGHT! It sounds silly that you'd have to be a studied genius in order to believe in God. You just need an open and humble heart to feel the Holy Spirit of truth (aka the Holy Ghost or comforter (John 14:26))
Yes I loved his Christian apologist takes in his newest video where he destroyed 25 Christians with simple arguments and proved how illogical Christianity is
Having failed two IVF treatments, i was starting to lose my faith. However, me and my wife, along with one couple who too failed twice went to a preacher who prayed for our pregnancy. Amazingly, the couple (The wife) got pregnant immediately after the prayer, and now she's 7 months pregnant. Though we are not the fortunate one, my faith in God and His miracle has been restored. More than such 160 couple had already succeed from the prayer, i have heard it with my own ears, and seen it with my own eyes, so these atheist agnostic thing has become just a stupid thing for me hence. Praise be to the Triune God❤
Go submit your findings to the appropriate scientific community. Youll convert millions. Or...you won't. The same stories can be said of any preacher from any religion or belief. And people do tell these stories. Go beleive in them also
Thank you for sharing your journey and your heartfelt testimony Kima! While your experience is of course so unique and personal, it also speaks to the power of hope, prayer, and the support of a compassionate community during difficult times. Thanks so much for sharing with us. 💙
@kimasailo6629 it'll take you less than a minute to find out bud. You aren't aware of all the miracles and healing gurus out there ? Seems weird to have such a stance on the god you were brought up with, thinking that yours is correct without noticing that this supposedly occurs in every other religion 😂 Funny how I've to name the Hindu one, yet you never named your magic man.
All of this episode was my favorite. We need more people like Rainn and Alex in our world. I'm very similar to Alex on his journey of faith and belief. There are things that as an agnostic myself I share with Alex, and at the same time there are things that in my own journey I put more stress on, such as while we weren't meant to do life alone, the audience of one is even more important. I would say more but I'm not giving up on my dream of meeting Rainn and having a conversation with both him and Alex, for they both have had a hand in how I think about these things. Rainn, I can see you having a conversation with Penn Jillette. He's similar to Alex on some things, different on others. Just to give you a taste, Penn says things that the Dawkins or the Hitchens of the world would disagree with and all three men are atheists.
As I get older (34 now) and people start to die around you, I see the benefit of religion. If practicing Christianity could help my parents rest easier at the lead up to their inevitable death; it may be a worthwhile undertaking; even if I don’t fully believe it.
@Amor_fati.Memento_Mori If the OP is saying that participating in religion, even without the belief part, can still be beneficial to families, I would agree with that for some. That doesn't mean that there aren't negative side effects of religion. I believe that sometimes there is more good than harm in religious rituals, depending one's unique culture, friends, and family. There are plenty of exceptions to that generalization. Having said all that, I think it's good to be honest and tell people if you're skeptical of a religious belief system even if you participate. If being honest gets someone excommunicated, so be it.
I didn't find this to be the case. I was the caregiver for both my terminally ill parents (9 mos apart) until their deaths at home. Religion didn't make anything easier and for me made it more difficult because I was surrounded by religious family that incorporated their rituals and vernacular into the process.
25:00 Yes! God organized reality from preexisting eternal matter/energy and divided these distinctions to enable experience, both the good and evil so we could come to know these things for ourselves in the only way possible if we so choose.
Great discussion. I think what makes it difficult for many to envision reality without a supreme being of some sort comes down to a few things: We have this inherent feeling that we each exist as individuals (i.e., consciousness). We cannot easily think on an evolutionary or universal time/space scale due to how infinitesimally small we and our existence are. We want to be special and/or see a larger meaning to our existence rather than just being an infinitesimally small cog in an evolutionary wheel.
It's so sad hearing someone I respect like Rian talk such drivel about how he doesn't understand how the planets or life could've formed so must be God.
i love how Alex is teaching us!! much of the content he discusses is stuff that i learned in my college classes. really great discussions, thank you so much!
"There's no distinction between material objects, but there is a distinction between minds" The mind carves up the content of experience (rationally) into distinct things, not just what we see, but what we hear, feel, smell, touch, and emote too, creating invisible "borders" around each by which a thing is known as being not-other. But then the mind itself is like a picture-frame in its own right, a border containing all such content distinguishing self from other. Breach that border, crack it open and unfold to see what lies beyond.
I loved that first converseation you had with Alex. I'm looking into the Baha'i faith - religion fascinates me. What would be the best introduction Rainn?
The biggest problem people have when they compare Atheist & Christian worldviews is that they tend to ignore the fact that essentially we're both using the same data. The question isn't what does a world with or without god looks like. Its what better explains the world we're looking at. My problem with Rain explaining his brief time exploring atheism was that he viewed it more within the former rather than the latter.
My main criticism of Rainn’s position at the beginning is saying that god is all these concepts and things that we already have a word for. God is love… but love is already a word and concept. What reason do we have to add a word to it?
Welcome, O’Connor-Heads! (That’s the name we landed on, right?) thanks so much for tuning in! Hope you’ll sub and stick around for some more spiritually stimulating and thought-provoking conversations like this one 🙏 what was your favorite part of the episode?? 👇
We have O'Connorrhea
favorite part was "short king of the Jews"
I thought we settled on "Baby-face Killahs"
Or Cosmagnostics
Or can u ask him, he can bet for his words or not?🤔🤔🤔
The complexity conversation around 38:00 was one of the easiest to grasp versions of that conversations. I appreciate the skill of each of you to make it so (seemingly) simple!
Alex seems much more jollier in this interview than in others. Much more relaxed, comfortable and enthusiastic. Really happy to see him this way.
Must be refreshing to take a break from all those perspective sharing/defending discussions and be in a more relaxed setting with normal conversation for once.
As a believer he's one of my go-to athiest when I want to understand the criticism of my faith better.
Great interview Dwight!
It was the mustache holding him down
Right?? And he looks more handsome here too
@Kineticfriction13 🤣🤣 That must be it. 🤣🤣
There is no Rainn, only Dwight!
I find it amusing how many religious fans alex has. Does any of his content/work ever give you pause or make you second guess your faith?
Alex consistently exemplifies how to constructively interact with people that are fundamentally different from you.
well said and agreed!
Do you have anyone like him on the Christian side? Not looking for any gotchas just interested in someone who actually takes atheists seriously but isn't an atheist himself.
@@Archanox Dan McClellan is an interesting example of someone with a particular set of beliefs but who also isn't afraid of what the information says. Very interesting guy, although I guess for many people he wouldn't count as a Christian enough.
@@fang_xianfu seems like interesting guy. Will take a look
@@Archanox I think Cliffe Knechtle, he actually makes interesting conversations without trying to be rude
First Rainn goes on Alex's show, then Alex goes on Rainn's show . . . This is soooo coool. I love seeing good people support each other. I wish more of the world was like this. I've been watching Alex ever since he started his cosmic skeptic channel and it fills me with joy that he's made such an impact and is getting much more renown.
THE PEATERSON "WHAT DO YOU MEAN" GETS ME EVERY TIME
Was the "Peat" in "Peaterson" deliberate? If so, that was subtle!
@@benjiman_OBEoh it was and it was awesome.
he should make a whole video just impersonating Peterson that would be hilarious
saddest thing was that Rainn totall missed it
@ he could be an aspie
As a Christian, I admire the conversations Alex has had and his research into the Bible. It's hard to believe how young he is with his depth of knowledge!
Right?
I’m Christian too and I respect Alex a lot
He has a degree in theology, I believe. Not sure at what level.
I also agree! My gut instinct though is that Alex already knows that he believes in Jesus, but you can make a good career and good entertainment out of what he is doing. I can't help but feel that he is already leaning towards God making himself known in Jesus, but just playing devils advocate because it's fun, entertaining and he is still working through the details of his faith etc. I could be totally wrong in my gut instinct here of course, but time will tell 💯
@@NovaRae3He's agnostic but atheist leaning.
11:28 amazing Jordan Peterson impression 😂
It came out of nowhere too 😂😂
this made my day haaha
I had to rewind. "Wait was that Alex?" 🤣
It really came out from nowhere lol
LMAOOOO
The biggest issue with NDEs is twofold. One, is that we know how good the brain is at filling in the gaps. This makes complete sense when we see how everyones NDE correlates to their own experiences, and not some unified singular experience.
The second is that many people who have a NDE also experience nothing. Again, there is no singular experience that happens. SOME people see loved ones. Others dont.
I learned about Rainn Wilson because of his acting. But I now genuinely respect and love Rainn Wilson because of his mind. You’re doing great work!
Was excited to see the two of you come together for a discussion. I wish more philosophical podcast episodes were like this one. I love when intellectually curious people come together to explore ideas without the emotional burden of proving their own view is correct.
Thank you for bringing conversations like this to us, Rainn!
I could listen to you two all day and night. You don't bring that "vs." "destroy" spirit with you, you just talk respectfully. Alex is incredible smart and knowledgable, and Rainn is cool as hell and his questions are plain brilliant!
Alex is so smart and good at speaking that religious ppl all go: “oh I like this one”😂
He's great!!
I agree with that. A lot of people also seem to "like" as long as he doesn't say something they disagree with. Then he is immediately a huge "disappointment" and "insincere" and whatnot. Like the recent Wess Huff thing.
@@Archanoxthat’s not true. He says a lot of things theists disagree with but they like him because unlike other atheist speakers (like Matt dillahunty, for example) he isn’t a raging condescending douche.
@@etaylor8028 Sure he says things theists disagree with, I mean things like the Wess Huff situation. He is actually objectively right with his critique on Wess...well misrepresenting the dead sea scrolls. And yes I am not particularly fond of people like Dillahunty, I get that.
This😂😂😂 IT seems like Christians like him more than athiests at this point,
Such a heart-warming conversation! Love to see people questioning things not just for the sake of the argument but to just truly make sense of this life we live. Thank you!
My mother told me that when I have kids, I will start believing. 3 kids later, and I still don't.
11:30 that Peterson impression is so god damn funny dude
I’m reminded of how curiosity begins young and doesn’t really ever leave us… the process of searching can take us to such beautiful places. When we can join someone in their journey and share the experience, it can really bring deep delight to the soul. We are made for discovery… we are made for meaning. We are made to search together. Love what you do, Alex and Rainn 🧐🫨😍🙃😇
❤️
I'm a Christian and a big fan of Alex's work and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate these conversations, thank you both.
Bro, you’re a Christian you love this guy he hates our God and doesn’t believe in it
🙏
What do you mean you are a fan of his work?
That's like, being Charlie Brown and trying out to be a professional field goal kicker, and still using Lucy to hold the ball.
You’re a Christian and a fan of someone that spits in the face of Jesus? ….you are no Christian, shame on you , Christ is King
crazy crossover LETS GO ALEX
💙
And if you liked this one, you will like the podcast they have in Alex' channel
I could listen to Alex all day. So thoughtful and articulate.
@FuzzyWuzzy01 most atheist feel the same
Finished watching “Reclaiming Spirituality”, the talk you had with Alex a few months ago. In it, you asked him to be a guest for this very interview. I’m surprised and happy that it’s here so soon!
We're happy too! 😄
@@SoulBoom Religion is astrology and you are sick for entertaining this trash. Nothing has done more harm to humanity than religion, which is LITERALLY astrology and everyone knows it. You are taking advantage of the mentally ill you sick man.
Rain i love these crossovers. They keep blowing my mind lol never thought id see Alex here
Oh I must have missed you on Alex's podcast, I'll go back and watch after this :)
Thank you for being here!!
Awesome conversation guys. This show constantly shifts my paradigm. Some real brain food. Thank you for sharing!
I’m not even half way through and this is one of the most eye opening Alex O’Conner interviews I’ve seen thus far.
Awesome pod man! As a Muslim, I'm beginning to believe that experience and cooperation with raw nature is the only true belief in God. The faith and patience required to surrender to nature are qualities we no longer use or require in a fast-paced modern civilization. Therefore, I think that about 90% of global population don't really "believe" (sadly, myself included). The farmers, bedouins, Amish, and whoever lives off the land, are certainly better believers than I am, irrespective the name, colour, and language the religion they follow. Just a hunch.
When you consider our modern living we have strive to put a barrier between ourselves and the wild. Lighting to provide light after sundown, heating to stave off winter, and air conditioning to elevate summer heat. We eat the same meals all year round, rather than seasonal etc.
It's funny because I got to this same point of view via mereological nihilism (I started thinking about it after Alex and William Lane Craig discussed it) and thinking about the refutation of the arguments that the mind is separate. I'm not sure we can say that we are completely separate, I think we're only partially separate.
@@benjiman_OBE Exactly. And thus, in a way, we have put a barrier between ourselves and God.
@@fang_xianfu Very interesting. While I can't say I'm familiar with that philosophy, I do often believe that the human mind is, in fact, both the Cartesian Demon (in that our thoughts, senses, and perceptions are not rooted in reality), and the Demiurge (in that it crafts our mental perceptions, and literally crafts our physical world). I truly believe the Abrahamic faiths are talking about the human brain when referencing Satan. And I do not think the universe (or nature, or reality) owes the human brain its comprehensibility (such as our erroneous philosophical, scientific, and civilizational pursuits). Rather, we owe it our surrender and cooperation, like any tree or animal.
The brain is nothing more than a survival organ, ensuring our life by way of necessary illusions. Thus, Satan is the Angel of Life. The Paradox of Life is that by pursuing it, you die. But pursuing death, you live.
Religion is tied to a place, to an environment. Though I often ask myself why monotheism emerged in the desert, but Eskimos, living in another harsh and mostly minimal so to say environment, did not come to the same conclusion as the abrahamic religions. Sure, the tribes of the desert also encountered the opposite, meaning the oasis, the delta of a river, and thus developed an idea of Paradise, and an ideal better world from all points of view. Today we can experience and survive almost every earthly environment - except the depth of the ocean for the moment - but the connection with nature is, as you say and we all know it, lost.
This is the most amazing crossover that I never could've seen coming! Appreciate you both more than you know!
Love is that profound experience of the most intense care towards another individual, rooted in the acknowledgment of their vulnerability as a sentient being amidst all the complexities and uncertainties of existence.
Will definitely watch this when I get home, but I always enjoy listening to respectful conversations. Sadly so many discussions nowadays are not respectful and often not even discussions anymore.
Rainn, this is growing to be one of my favorite podcasts.
🥹🙏
I've been following Alex since he was with the new atheist movement. I'm older than him but have followed his journey in a very similar way. Seeing him evolve and feeling the evolution in myself has been exciting, enjoyable, and almost, unifying? In a way it just makes me feel like, hey, there are people out there showing the right way to do it. The way I engage with topics has been improved by following his journey. His conversations have forced me to be better. Plain and simple. Not to mention the way I engage with these topics in my playwriting has become significantly more nuanced. I love these talks. I'll be sticking around!
This was fantastic. Great job Rainn and Alex!
I like listening to Alex as a Christian and hearing his perspective why he feels I am wrong. Solidifies the things I do not know about God and it makes me find out more.
Nobody knows anything about "God". There are no God facts.
Regarding the atheist spiritualist - this is pretty much how I identify. The most useful definition for spirituality that I've found is ones relationship with unknowables. There are certain things that we simply are not equipped to know, such as what happens to our consciousness after death. Forging a relationship with these things that we can't know, somehow reconciling them with your world view otherwise - that's the basis of spirituality.
Religion, at least organized religion, I see as a one-size-fits-all attempt to almost prescribe spirituality. I truly believe that spirituality is a deeply personal thing, arrived at through introspection. No one's spirituality, their relationship with these "unknowables" is going to be the same.
Yes. We're all on a different path while religion claims a monopoly on the truth
Sounds really dumb
@kokemon84 that's just like, your opinion, man.
@ookami38 sounds like sophistry lol "relationship with the unknown" what a silly thing to say
@@kokemon84 Let's try that again eh? I didn't say unknown, I said unknow~able~. A critical difference. We all accept that, at some level, things become unknowable. From simply being impossible to observe, such as consciousness after death, to epistemological limits.
Eventually, someone broadening their understanding of the world will butt up against these limits. These things that we simply cannot, as humans, know. You can either choose to ignore these things, or forge some relationship with them. It seems like a common thread for most religions and life philosophies is coming to some kind of understanding on how these things might work. That understanding is what I define as "spirituality".
Again, nothing to do with what is currently unknown. That's the realm of hard sciences, not spirituality.
Love that little "What do you mean by God" Jordan Peterson impersonation 😂
Love is "just neurons firing" and that in itself is mind boggling and profound. It's all a matter of how you phrase it though - put a "just" before a statement and that automatically makes something feel less important. A materialist viewpoint doesn't reduce or negate the wonder and beauty of existence. Everything we understand about reality comes from a scientific perspective that is rooted in the objective material world, everything else is just superstition. (This is of course is just my opinion).
Note: I haven't listened to the conversation yet, just responding to the video description. I'm a big fan of you both by the way, always enjoy hearing your thoughts.
I’m living for Alex’s Jordan Peterson impression. That was hilarious. “Well what do you mean believe in God”. With the fluttering fingers. Yes.
Alex is exceptionally smart, but it's the emotional maturity framing his thinking that is astonishing for his age.
What a terrific conversation! I learned so much! Sending much appreciation and love.
Wow. Alex explaining how computers would be inconceivable just a few hundred years ago… makes me realize that just because the universe developing naturally seems inconceivable doesn’t mean it is.
But would still imply it has a maker, just like the computer
@@ryanhise6294right
Evolution is like believing that sending a tornado through a junkyard a million times would make a new and better car.
@@ameyers67 As far as a theory of creation? Because evolution itself certainly exists. You see it in everything from bacteria and viruses to metamorphosis in frogs to other animal species over the course of long-term human examination showing new evolutionary traits over years or decades. I think the crux of the question is,'Where did our patterned existence come from?' Because it certainly didn't come from nothing. And since it's patterned and intelligible, it must have a first cause.
Awesome!! Been waiting for this ever since you went on within reason. Hope this blows up
Love Alex, he really makes you think. Thanks Rain for having him on.
I really enjoyed this conversation! I think about this stuff a lot. Thank you very much Rainn and Alex for this episode!
We need to transcend our own stories. Reality doesn’t care; it’s on us to make meaning.
The watch argument always turns from "who made this?" and into "I know who made this!"
Reveals our bias more than it actually investigates how things come into being.
When he started asking you about the table, I was soooo waiting for you to say, "You make a chair, but you don't sit on it." 🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
😆
Dude, I was about write "Why is CosmicSkeptic talking to Dwight from The Office" as a joke, but it actually IS DWIGHT! What the hell!
As a Muslim who doesn’t really believe in my faith anymore (although I love my upbringing) I’d love to hear more discussions on that faith
I suggest “friendly exmuslim” if youre looking for more discussions.
For muslims, i guess you could watch Saajid Lipham and yusufponders, i suggest them because they dont have the ali dawah/mohammed hijab style of fake confidence and loudness but theyre more moral values oriented as opposed to empirical evidence oriented
“I will die on this fence” is a great line
I started watching Alex awhile ago as an atheist and now I'm watching him as a Christian ❤🙏
My condolences to your loss of rationality and skepticism
@@enigmaticaljedi6808hope one day u realize atheists who become Christians have far more rational than someone like u could ever have
So as a now Christian have you found any good defeaters to his arguments of animal suffering and the problem of evil?
@@enigmaticaljedi6808it always amazes me that people actually think all Christians have no rationality or skepticism. All the billions that have become Christians over the course of history. So stupid. 😂
If only some of Alex’s audience would grow up along with him… You guys are ridiculous with your petty childish comments.
This was a great interview, thanks Rainn
Thanks for watching! Hope you’ll stick around for more spiritually-stimulating conversations 🙏
@SoulBoom I will, just subscribed!
Hi Alex, I have a question for you:
If you open Paint in your computer, draw a triangle, and save the triangle in a png, when you turn off the computer, would you be able to find the triangle inside the computer just by cutting it open?
Do you think this implies that the triangle is immaterial?
Decoding of signal and data in a specific shape, or form, or color, is perfectly material, as far as I am concerned. This is why I think you are too generous with that point being detracted from a materialistic worldview.
Regarding consciousness: it can easily be explained as an emerging property. Exactly like a bee-hive is much more complex than a single bee.
Yes thats what i always thought aswell!
Also, trying to deconstruct the thing(consciousness)which you need to deconstruct things. Sounds like a paradox and therefore probably is one of the most difficult things to do for humans.
Its like trying to understand what space and time is as a whole, while beeing bound by it. Its a mystery which i think is almost impossible to comprehend and investigate.
In the past Alex i feel like was more comfortable pointing out that there are just things we cant really investigate, but now he opens up to supernatural, immaterial realities which i think is foolish.
yes, this. he always uses this argument without ever addressing the counterargument
if you know what you're looking for you can in fact find the triangle. imagine simpler computer - a calculator, and you store a number in its memory. if you cut it open you can measure the voltage differences in the memory, which gives you a binary number that you can convert into the original number you stored. we can do this because we built the calculators, we have the manuals. but we can simplify it further, imagine an abacus in which you store a number by moving a few beads, when you take it apart where is the material representation of the number? this may be what consciousness is, a pattern that we don't understand yet. this is as if we opened up a computer to look for the triangle but we didn't build the computer so we have no manuals and we don't even know what a triangle is
@@elshook09 completely agree with you, however I need to defend the devil (in this case Alex): I think the reason he is so set into this argument, is that even if we account for interpretation models, used to convert electric signal or whatever it would be, into a color, then where does the idea of colour comes from? And I think that the answer is to be found in the very fabric of reality, or perhaps into evolutionary boundaries, those are the reason why colours exist, in these types and numbers. Not because an abstract idea of "redness" exists in the world of ideas, as Alex so much desires. I think he doesn't address the counterargument because he genuinely didn't give it enough weight. What he de facto does, by conceding the existence of an immaterial "redness" is to use a god in the gap argument. Eventually he will need to deal with this. Together with his views on consciousness, and the argument of evolution providing evolutionary answers, and not real answers, in a materialistic worldview, which can all easily be disproven, yet he considers them "good arguments".
To continue with the bees... Consider what we believe to be the mechanism bees use to communicate the location of a source of pollen. If this 'dance' they do is the means of communication and minds are just interpretive, how could there be any objective communication in that interpreted 'dance'? Given the short life of a bee, is it realistic to expect this to be a learned interpretation or some intrinsic property?
@@domenico26752 Where does this 'emerging property' come from, where from or how does this property emerge?
A a Christian , man Alex is such a breath of fresh air , very intellectual and respectable
I love to listen to Alex he always has something intelligent and well thought out to say. Sometimes it makes my head hurt, but it is always a well thought out argument.
Great interview! Really interesting conversation that leaves you with plenty to think about. I'm a big fan of Alex and loved seeing him as relaxed as he was. Props to Rainn for keeping it intelligently chill.
Yeesssss!!! I've been waiting for this!!!!
Alex, you mentioned that the biggest problem with materialism is that when you imagine things, you don’t actually have them inside your mind. But let me propose that you don’t need to, because everything is information. Even when you are looking at something that you believe to be real, your mind is only being stimulated by information, who is to say that the only way to stimulate our mind and “see” something is through our eyes. I say that the fact that you can imagine something that isn’t ”real” means that your mind can be stimulate by other type of information that does‘t come from your eyes. I am not a Materialist, but Information itself is just the arregement of matter, and to Interpret Information you don’t need to have a conciousness, Like Computers.
lovely conversation!
Really enjoyed you on Alex's channel and just had to listen to him on yours. Good conversation, I'll definitely subscribe for more of your podcast.
🙏🙏
i am an atheist. and i do not think consciousness and feelings are illusions. I think they are very real. infact, i take my first person experiences very seriously. i just think all experiences, including my feelings and thoughts, are dependent on the wiring of my brain. so i am a materialist in that sense. because there are scientific evidences that suggests brain injury can alter the way you perceive reality and even, in extreme cases, your personality. and i know a lot of atheists that think like that too
it's freewill I don't believe in. but that does not mean i cannot notice my human emotions and experience life.
What a pleasantly surprising combination of people to see have a conversation
Every time I think I couldn’t love Alex more, he explores new horizons 🥹
Seems like believers tend to characterize atheism as having an inherent lack of awe for our universe, because if they did they couldn't not believe in a being who created it. In fact it's quite the opposite, they awe is the same… but it's from a different angle.
It's from an angle of assumption, so essentially is religious in It's essence
@@summan41man Nah, its from an angle of evidence and completely different than the assumptions of religions
@kylehubbs651 provide evidence for the origin of life, provide evidence for consciousness, provide evidence for the precise detail involved to ensure life exists, including the mathematical precision in the alignment of the cosmos.
@@summan41man Atheists aren't the ones claiming they know the answers to all of the unknowns in nature yet (although we have some good ideas about each of the things you rattled off) --- but theists do make that claim they know! Provide evidence for your claim that a god exists and did all of those things you spouted out. That's the difference between atheists and theists. Atheists are comfortable saying "we don't know yet" while theists say "we don't know so it must be a god". Throughout human history countless unexplained natural phenomena have been attributed to gods --- movements of the cosmos, weather events, appearance of diseases and sickness, etc. Every single time when we've discovered what was the actual cause of those events its been a natural explanation not a supernatural one. Every time. Gods are a human placeholder for unknown knowledge. So you make the positive claim a god exists the burden of proof is with you to provide the evidence. We'll wait.
@@summan41man The difference between atheism (by way of skepticism) and theism is that when there is insufficient evidence to reach a conclusion the atheist says "we don't know yet" while the theist says "we don't know therefore god". Throughout human history unknown natural phenomena like movements of the cosmos, weather events, disease and sickness, harvests, etc. were given supernatural god explanations. Every single time we've been able to uncover what actually causes those phenomena the answer has been natural and not supernatural. Every. Single. Time. A god has been demonstrated to be the answer exactly zero times. Saying "we don't know so I can't imagine anything else explaining it besides a god" has a name - the fallacy from personal incredulity. We may not have every question in the universe solved yet but we make progress every day. The key is to wait until you can demonstrate an answer before arriving at a belief. And you apparently claim you have the answer to all of these questions. So why don't you provide your evidence of a god that will convince the rest of us? Because the people actually studying the origins of life, consciousness, cosmology, etc. overwhelmingly reject supernatural causes as the explanation. Go convince them too. We've chased gods away from mountain tops, under the sea, out of the sky and all the way beyond space and time. Finding new dark corners to hide in doesn't impress anyone who cares about learning the truth.
Thanks for having Alex on, Rainn!
1:00:52 - that's a great point, what happened to Jesus's perfected physical resurrected body after he ascended?
Fantastic Episode! Really enjoyed that so thank you!
Praise God! After enduring numerous challenges, I'm now a proud homeowner, blessed with an incredible $155,000 monthly income. God's faithfulness has restored my family's happiness and prosperity, fulfilling His promises. Everything is falling into place, and I'm grateful for His unwavering love and provision. God bless America!
That's a major turn around. Praise be to Jesus our Lord. Hallelujah
But then, what do you do? How do you come about that in that period?
It is simply the digital market. That's been the secret to this wealth transfer. A lot of folks in the US amd abroad are getting so much from it, God has been good to my household Thank you Jesus
Big thanks to Mrs Christine Elizabeth lerma
Her top notch guidance and expertise on digital market changed the game for me
Ha, I just thought about how Alex is a kinda William James the way he synthesizes all people's experiences. Alex's own seeking and learning and journey and his great respect for all is a great example to all to listen, connect and learn from each other's experiences. Good job man. Peace.
I used to think people exaggerated the total shift in perspective when your child is born until I saw my son come out of my wife. I could feel the earth moving beneath my feet and my body felt like it was floating. There were definitely intense emotions, but the physical experience was borderline spiritual and totally unexpected. It was as if I was taking part of some very real ritual that I could feel changing my life in real time. Wild experience
@@zacshifler
A possible alternate explanation is that evolutionary psychology provides us with a natural justification for intense emotional and rewarding experiences; especially when we propagate our own genetics or survive a near-death experience. Having said that, I don't think there's really any way to know for sure if these experiences are supernatural or purely part of our natural genetic code.
@tex959 I'm not even trying to offer an explanation. Only saying that I had a very acute experience that came out of nowhere. I'm not an emotional person (which may be why it hit me like a ton of bricks). The physical sensation I felt only lasted moments, but it certainly carried over into my sons life. It changed me.
The only thing I can compare it to was a dream I had one night where my "soul" left my body like a kleenex from right between my eyebrows. It flew towards the sky fast like a jet. It spread out as it traveled further from my body. I could see the ground from the sky and eventually the earth from space. It lasted maybe 10 seconds but it was the only time I ever felt euphoria. I woke up seconds later wishing I could go back to that feeling. It's possible I stopped breathing as I have severe sleep apnea. Also possible my brain dumped dmt just once in my life while I was sleeping. I dont know. I do know that dream impacted me like very few events in my life and I can recall it with precision.
The brain is weird. Life is weird
@@zacshifler thanks for the explanation. You're right about the brain and life being weird
How do you explain people that don't feel this? There are human and non-human animals that frequently reject their offspring.
@@tinymcgoo1195 I wouldn't expect people to feel it. As I said, I didn't expect it when it happened.
The point I was making was that the experience was totally out of my control. Like a panic attack, but positive
@rainn awesome work, but as a sound guy I couldn’t help but notice that the noise gate used was a tad aggressive and cut out some of Alex’s audio. For removing that hiss you can still use the gate, but you can also try the noise reduction process if you use audition or a denoiser.
Amazing work as always, huge fan.
19:55 “Have you heard the bad news?” LOL 🤣
Why is this max resolution of 1080p, I need those pixels!
Alex out here subtly preaching for Mormonism
Haha I know he's seems really fascinated by the Mormons in the last 2-3 videos I've seen from him
Its’s a shame however as it harms Alex’s credibility, Mormonism lacks the historical evidence of traditional Christianity.
@@ExerciseForLifePls?? “Mormons believe the Old and New Testament. They simply believe more has happened than what is just contained there.
@@ExerciseForLifePls there's objectively more evidence. that's his whole point lol
I think the reason he is fascinated is because the doctrine answers a lot of the questions that traditional Christianity doesn't. It's a bit disconcerting to see so-called Christians turn into Richard Dawkins and treat with scoffing and derision, anyone who deals with the claims of the LDS faith seriously. At least Alex is talking to Mormons instead of at them or about them.
58:39 I’ve actually had a NDE during my double lung transplant (I was born with Cystic Fibrosis.). I was in a dark room and there was a table in the distance that was lit. I walked over to see my great grandmother (who died when I was around 4), my mom’s dad who died in ‘95 (who I never met) and an empty chair. I asked if this was it and my Great Grandma without looking up said “Nope. Not yet.” And then I came to. My experience on bad acid was 10x worse. I thought I had died and went outside of my apartment and wondered around until my friend saw me and picked me up. The acid was WAY worse 😂
I like that Rainn is reaching out to understand atheism. Rainn, you should have a conversation with Matt Dillahunty from The Line (and Atheist Experience). He's an incredible communicator. Would love to see you and him have a chat.
No, no, he isn't. He's very inconsistent in his worldview. Have you not heard of the dillahunty dodge? He always goes around the question with "it doesn't convince me, and I don't really know what's true, and that's all i know, that i don't know"
He is a joke.
An overgrown tantrum throwing baby. He makes atheists look reeeeaaaaally bad.
Alex is light years ahead of Matt Dillahunty. Matt usually has an ax to grind and goes straight to debate mode. Alex is more about having a conversation of sharing and learning information
Thanks for the rec!
The best way to dissect Dillahunty's debate style is to flip the script. Would you say a devout christian granting themselves victory with "Im not convinced" is a good debator? You wouldnt. The notion that an interlocutor doesnt have to assert any belief structure and assumes his worldview as some form of default state is childish and ridiculous.
Its like opening a debate with "For the sake of this debate lets assume I'm right and you're wrong, and we can start there."
color me enlightened. really enjoyed listening to alex here, after first seeing him on surrounded. and I say that as a judaism-curious catholic. especially great within rainn’s positive and measured world view. this intellectual AND positive vibe is so lacking in podcast land. anyway, thank you both. 🕊️🖤
Out of curiosity, what fascinates you about a conversion to Judaism as a Catholic? If this is what you are implying. Unless you mean the roots of your faith.
@ good question. not totally sure yet. sifting through the scripture, the politics, and culture of the time. learning about constantine (and preceding caesaropapacy) made me want more clarity. of course, i have also observed evangelical christianity stateside (grew up with it), and find it to be so perverted. honestly, I see a lot of pure evil there in mini-mega church land. and the cultural fruit 🍊from it raises my hackles. especially in the us, but christian nationalism is a global illness. i also need to be incredibly careful of my own confirmation bias having grown up with it. doesn’t change all the jesus feels though! i feel my faith deeply. physically, even. I just want to make sure that I serve the right master and He, hasn’t yet chosen to clarify that for me. thanks for asking.
@ looks like my reply to you got deleted or held for mod.🤷🏻♂️ Too long and heartfelt to rewrite. But yes, roots, basically.
Mormon theology takes care of the problem Rainn has with hell
i love both of them, avid viewer of each. another amazing ep 😭🤍
44:38 - YES!!!!!! EXACTLY RIGHT! It sounds silly that you'd have to be a studied genius in order to believe in God. You just need an open and humble heart to feel the Holy Spirit of truth (aka the Holy Ghost or comforter (John 14:26))
I can tell that Alex is a good faith actor and I really appreciate how he thinks about this
Alex is one of the greatest accidental Christian apologists I’ve listed to. His path to truth is beautiful to watch unfold.
What a clown take
Yes I loved his Christian apologist takes in his newest video where he destroyed 25 Christians with simple arguments and proved how illogical Christianity is
Having failed two IVF treatments, i was starting to lose my faith. However, me and my wife, along with one couple who too failed twice went to a preacher who prayed for our pregnancy. Amazingly, the couple (The wife) got pregnant immediately after the prayer, and now she's 7 months pregnant. Though we are not the fortunate one, my faith in God and His miracle has been restored. More than such 160 couple had already succeed from the prayer, i have heard it with my own ears, and seen it with my own eyes, so these atheist agnostic thing has become just a stupid thing for me hence. Praise be to the Triune God❤
Go submit your findings to the appropriate scientific community.
Youll convert millions. Or...you won't.
The same stories can be said of any preacher from any religion or belief.
And people do tell these stories.
Go beleive in them also
Thank you for sharing your journey and your heartfelt testimony Kima! While your experience is of course so unique and personal, it also speaks to the power of hope, prayer, and the support of a compassionate community during difficult times. Thanks so much for sharing with us.
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@@skindred1888 Name one such Hindu preacher.
@kimasailo6629 it'll take you less than a minute to find out bud.
You aren't aware of all the miracles and healing gurus out there ?
Seems weird to have such a stance on the god you were brought up with, thinking that yours is correct without noticing that this supposedly occurs in every other religion 😂
Funny how I've to name the Hindu one, yet you never named your magic man.
@skindred1888 Why don't you just name the Guru, and the miracles he did? Instead of babbling nonsense
All of this episode was my favorite. We need more people like Rainn and Alex in our world. I'm very similar to Alex on his journey of faith and belief. There are things that as an agnostic myself I share with Alex, and at the same time there are things that in my own journey I put more stress on, such as while we weren't meant to do life alone, the audience of one is even more important. I would say more but I'm not giving up on my dream of meeting Rainn and having a conversation with both him and Alex, for they both have had a hand in how I think about these things. Rainn, I can see you having a conversation with Penn Jillette. He's similar to Alex on some things, different on others. Just to give you a taste, Penn says things that the Dawkins or the Hitchens of the world would disagree with and all three men are atheists.
As I get older (34 now) and people start to die around you, I see the benefit of religion. If practicing Christianity could help my parents rest easier at the lead up to their inevitable death; it may be a worthwhile undertaking; even if I don’t fully believe it.
How can you practice it without believing it?
@Amor_fati.Memento_Mori
If the OP is saying that participating in religion, even without the belief part, can still be beneficial to families, I would agree with that for some.
That doesn't mean that there aren't negative side effects of religion. I believe that sometimes there is more good than harm in religious rituals, depending one's unique culture, friends, and family. There are plenty of exceptions to that generalization.
Having said all that, I think it's good to be honest and tell people if you're skeptical of a religious belief system even if you participate. If being honest gets someone excommunicated, so be it.
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I didn't find this to be the case. I was the caregiver for both my terminally ill parents (9 mos apart) until their deaths at home. Religion didn't make anything easier and for me made it more difficult because I was surrounded by religious family that incorporated their rituals and vernacular into the process.
I stand in awe of Alex. What an enigma.
25:00 Yes! God organized reality from preexisting eternal matter/energy and divided these distinctions to enable experience, both the good and evil so we could come to know these things for ourselves in the only way possible if we so choose.
Great discussion. I think what makes it difficult for many to envision reality without a supreme being of some sort comes down to a few things:
We have this inherent feeling that we each exist as individuals (i.e., consciousness).
We cannot easily think on an evolutionary or universal time/space scale due to how infinitesimally small we and our existence are.
We want to be special and/or see a larger meaning to our existence rather than just being an infinitesimally small cog in an evolutionary wheel.
It's so sad hearing someone I respect like Rian talk such drivel about how he doesn't understand how the planets or life could've formed so must be God.
Great interview!
I get happier every time Alex does a JP impression
i love how Alex is teaching us!! much of the content he discusses is stuff that i learned in my college classes. really great discussions, thank you so much!
I'm an agnostic of agnosticism. I don't know whether or not it is possible to know whether or not there's a god.
Idk.. I think I am agnostic about your position. 😂
@@tinymcgoo1195 🤣
Its probably impossible to verify a non-personal type deity / or god, but I'm pretty sure that the Bible contains a lot of human inspired mysticism.
"There's no distinction between material objects, but there is a distinction between minds"
The mind carves up the content of experience (rationally) into distinct things, not just what we see, but what we hear, feel, smell, touch, and emote too, creating invisible "borders" around each by which a thing is known as being not-other.
But then the mind itself is like a picture-frame in its own right, a border containing all such content distinguishing self from other. Breach that border, crack it open and unfold to see what lies beyond.
Died at "are those like the Keebler elves?"
Loved this convo!
Alex does a great job of toeing the line. He makes sure to never be too direct about his Atheism which keeps the Christians viewers clicking.
This conversation made me a happier person, that is all.
I loved that first converseation you had with Alex. I'm looking into the Baha'i faith - religion fascinates me. What would be the best introduction Rainn?
I’m glad Alex came on after their first episode on his show!
The biggest problem people have when they compare Atheist & Christian worldviews is that they tend to ignore the fact that essentially we're both using the same data. The question isn't what does a world with or without god looks like. Its what better explains the world we're looking at. My problem with Rain explaining his brief time exploring atheism was that he viewed it more within the former rather than the latter.
This was so great. I could watch them talk for hours.
That low-key Jordan Peterson impersonation Alex did at 11:30 was hilarious haha. Great conversation though, by the way 🙏
I've always wanted to hear alex talk about NDEs. thanks for this!
My main criticism of Rainn’s position at the beginning is saying that god is all these concepts and things that we already have a word for.
God is love… but love is already a word and concept. What reason do we have to add a word to it?
Comfort. But of course, to him, its insulting to say its that simple