Simone’s 8th: The 2023 US Nationals Debrief
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- 2023 U.S. NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS REVIEW
* Simone wins her 8th national title: What routines are we adding to the Simone highlight reel?
* We discuss Shilese Jones and Leanne Wong recording their best results of this Olympic cycle-as well as the injury Jones is dealing with
* The women’s AA podium was older than the men’s AA podium!
* Progress, and a couple bad looks, from USAG this week
* The deal with floor scoring and the biggest nerd headlines from nationals
* Who is MORE likely and who is LESS likely to make Worlds after this meet
* Reviewing our biggest questions from the preview: Did we learn anything?
* Asher Hong and Colt Walker both won the men’s competition (we’ll explain) as we discuss selection of the men’s Worlds team and our highlights from the weekend
* Plus, the investigation into Tom Farden, which defending champions won’t be at Worlds, and other gymternet news
Sam actually explained the moment with Alicia on broadcast-they were laughing about how watching the footage of the 2008 Olympics was like watching a movie instead of something they’d actually lived. I like the dinosaur dress theory better but oh well. 😂
Sam confirmed it was actually the dinosaur dress theory on socials!
@@casalazar10 🙏 amazing!
Yes, NBC’s broadcast was greatly improved. They must’ve gotten my emails 😂
I am so thrilled to see more gymnasts performing a second vault.
You both nailed the commentary on floor scoring here. Spot on.
This was such a joyous podcast! I love all the celebraing- dispite some of the more difficult news. I will be following from now on!!
Thank you!
The broadcast was so much better. Being able to watch routines without Tim D talking the entire time like he gets paid per word was 🔥
My team:
Simone Biles (best AA, will definitely be used on all 4 events)
Shilese Jones (2nd best AA, could be used for all 4 events)
Leanne Wong (3rd best AA, consistent, can fill in on any event, could be used for floor if she performs better than Roberson)
Skye Blakely (very solid beam and bars)
Joscelyn Roberson (solid cheng that will come clutch in team final, can definitely medal individually, solid floor as well)
Alternate: Jordan Chiles (consistent AA, better execution/artistry than Carey, can fill in on any event, will be a hype teammate for team final)
Vault
Blakely/Wong/Jones (DTY)
Roberson (Cheng)
Biles (YDP)
Bars
Biles
Blakely
Jones
Beam
Wong/Jones
Blakely
Biles
Floor
Roberson/Wong
Jones
Biles
To me Simone, Shilese, and Leanne are the locks but the other 2 team slots are wide open in my mind going into camp.
Why the hell would you leave Skye off??? She’s more of a “lock” than Leanne!!!
@@tambam6744 Deep breaths 🧘♀️
@@tambam6744Agreed!! Leanne is absolutely not a lock. The only locks are Simone, Shi and Skye
I'm putting it out there now. KHOI YOUNG is the male version of Simone Biles.. He is just getting started..
He could be. He’s young and has really exciting skills.
Let’s talk about Shilese and how I think she could beat Andrade for silver in AA at Worlds if both are healthy/injury free.
Am I wrong?
That’s possible!
I think if Shilese does her Bars upgrade and execute well. If she upgrades her Vault could definitely get Silver!
For sure, especially since we don’t know what difficulty Andrade will do on floor. Andrade has the advantage on vault, they’re about even on bars and beam, so it comes down to floor
Very possible
@@nassaj8082 What vault would she upgrade to?
Love that abortion care for USAWG is the hill that Jessica is gonna die on. Im with you queen!
I'm with her! I will stand with her on the hill.
@GloriaOBriensings same, and im glad she brought it up, and continues to bring it up. It wouldnt have been something i would have been aware of as a man when making considerations of places to hold a practice center.
Diversity of voices at the table is important!
"Abortion care"??
Um killing babies is not a very caring thing to do, nor is it ever necessary to save a mother's life. If complications arise it is perfectly legal in every state to save her life by using humane methods to remove the baby or do an early delivery. Directly and intentionally killing the baby prior to delivery (abortion) does nothing to benefit her health.
training center in Minnesota
Pros:
- good education system
-healthcare
-central US
Cons:
-cold
Cold is a big con. Snow has the potential to cancel one if not several national team camps due to travel issues. It’s happened with Tramp & tumbling national team camps in the past.
Guys when is world team trials and where can I watch it
41:00 it’s important to add that they devalued her ring jump, and had they not Suni would’ve scored a 14.6.
Nd night one, with a fall on the LOSO she lost 0.2 in difficulty and 1.0 from her score.
All that to say, if Suni gets full credit and hits she can get a 14 mid on beam
I think that the World Team will be:
Simone Biles
Shilease Jones
Skye Blakely
Leanne Wong
K Lincoln
Josc Robertson
I would love to hear how the "highest scoring" team for Men was determined, because if you take out the bonus and use average for 2 day or highest score either day does not include Asher (Donnell beat Asher on VT/SR both days) in a 3 up situation. Also either Stephen or Curran were on the top 3 highest scoring teams. The top one was Khoi, Yul, Donnell, Paul, and Curran. I'm not mad about who they chose, but it wasn't as straight forward. Per selection procedures it was any team configuration 2 pts of the highest scoring team would be the pool of athletes to choose from at their discretion.
Before pan am's earlier this year they released the tables with the different combinations of scores. That would be interesting to see for this. I don't have the energy to look up the scores I would have to do it by hand because I don't have a computer at the moment, so kudos to you for figuring out what you did. I guess the bonuses from really helped Asher because it's weird to think that he wouldn't make the highest-scoring team? I agree with you that there's nothing wrong with the team they chose but I'm sad for some of athletes who didn't get chosen. I can definitely see them deciding of course our all-around champion is going and also Asher had the best performance of the team last year at worlds. It is very sad to me that the way things are set up event specialists miss out on a world championship medal. I wonder if the philosophy would have been different if we had already qualified our team to the Olympics. I know they don't have to rank incredibly high to qualify that team but it seems like they're still experimenting with how to get the best performance out of the men's team. There certainly won't be an instant result when trying to get them onto the podium.
The bonuses are out of control for the men. It completely changed the results.
@@Appaddict01I understand the concept because clean low difficulty routines were not getting the Americans anywhere on the international stage. I do believe they may have expected results a little faster than is reasonable. It's going to take awhile for a large amount of gymnasts to get these more difficult skills consistently in competition. I thought that there would be more gymnasts pushing the difficulty this year than there were but I guess there were more this year than there were last year? Also I haven't gone back and watched a lot of the routines that we're not shown on the broadcast. I know the bonuses were less this year than last year I think that's good but again I don't have the details in front of me to see how the D scores this year compared to last year. I think Asher has a good balance of both difficulty and execution. Khoi was a good example of execution helping him on his lesser difficult events. I will be interested to see how Paul Juda scores internationally. I'm sure they're going to be constantly were you thinking how to pick the team. Are the rules for picking the Olympic team already spelled out or is that not decided until next year?
What is the significance of the national team? I thought they choose the worlds team from the national team, which was already announced (top 10 from nationals)
Not for Women’s.
They choose the National Team for money sponsoring for athlete training.
They choose up to 18 for Worlds Selection.
They can add more out of the Top 10 for National Team at a later date, most likely the first camp after worlds in November 2023.
It’s still a bit convoluted and unfair in some ways, but this is their compromise for now.
Alicia and Chellsie are still trying to fix the Forster years much less the Liukin/Karolyi/Kelly/Karolyi regime years etc.
@@JoshuaFazeli thank you!
Really good question! National Team members get money from usag that supports their training. It really makes a difference in paying for training. And of course can lead to endorsements etc…
TL;DR/my summary: the two best options for best team score AND the most potential medals are:
1. Simone, Shilese, Skye, Kaliyah, and Leanne.
2. Simone, Shilese, Skye, Josc, and Leanne.
**
My long explanations/thought process:
Definitely Simone, Shilese, and Skye.
Medal potential on vault (Simone and Skye), bars (Shilese, potentially Skye, possibly Simone), beam (Simone and Skye, potentially Shilese) and floor (Simone, potentially Shilese).
Simone and Shilese would do all 4 in quals, and all 4 in team. Skye would do vault, bars, beam in quals and team. Now we're looking for floor... especially in team.
Kaliyah has medal potential on floor and could do quals and team. But she doesn't have much to help out on the other apparatuses. You'd need a 4th person to do each for quals and be a buffer/ fill in if needed during team... that would most likely be Leanne.
Instead of Kaliyah, you could do Josc. She could do vault, beam and floor in quals and do vault and possibly floor for team, and has medal potential on floor. Then Leanne could do bars and floor in quals, and possibly floor in team.
It wouldn't really work well to do Kaliyah and Josc, (if you have Simone, Shilese, and Skye) cause they could both do floor in quals and/or team, both have medal potential on floor, but neither would be a good 4th person for bars in quals. Being stuck with only 3 up in quals isn't awesome.
Now, let's assume Suni shows awesome bars and gets picked for that.... she could do bars and beam in quals, and in team. She'd be in contention for bars medal. Leanne could fill in the 4th vault in quals and also do floor in quals... but that still leaves only 3 on floor in qualifications... and Suni likely won't be doing floor, so again 3up in quals isn't awesome.
So basically the two best options for best team score AND the most potential medals are:
1. Simone, Shilese, Skye, Kaliyah, and Leanne.
2. Simone, Shilese, Skye, Josc, and Leanne.
World Championships Team Selection Event, 9/18-20.....that's definitely a mouthful 😂
WELL Now that the vault Ds have been lowered across the board to be more in line with the other events, it doesn't matter that Great Britain has Amanars. We love to see them, but they're only maxed at 15.4 now. Technically, Team USA could potentially outscore GB's vault on bars alone. Imagine that! Not to mention, some of US DTY could be on par with GB Amanars..possibly. ijs
Selecting world's team this year is going to be hard a lot of sentiments and emotions
Worlds team: Simone Shi Skye Leanne Jade, alt Jordan
AA finals: Simone + Shi
VT: Simone + Jade
Bars: Shi
Beam: Simone + Skye
Floor: Simone + Leanne
Pan Ams team: Kayla Kaliya Josc Tiana Zoe, alt Nola, individual Katelyn. Although they might swap Tiana and Nola because of bars
AA: Kayla and Katelyn
VT: Josc
UB: Zoe and Katelyn
BB: Tiana and Josc
FX: Kaliya and Josc
I think Suni and Jordan will be offered Pan Ams but decline it
If Jordan doesn’t make the Worlds Team, they should offer the traveling alternate to Kaliya if she is performing well.
This could really help her mental toughness and get her to the next level.
I see greatness in this kid. ✨
Also: Does Kayla have a high enough AA to contend at the Pan Ams for AA?
@@JoshuaFazeli yeah she can go 54+ for sure now that her DTY is back. Don’t know who else at pan Ams will be able to rival that especially if Andrade and Black don’t attend
@@JoshuaFazeli I think Kaliya should go to pan ams over being an alternate (although doing both would be great for her if possible). She really needs some international scores on floor since that’s the event where the international judges differ the most from USA judges I think
@@Plaspos I’m hoping Kaliya gets both. She is the type of gymnast that could gain so much from being a traveling alternate at a major world championships.
Just the podium training alone would help her onto that Olympic Team.
Then in October she can get her scores she needs to see at Pan Am Games and hopefully WOGA will look at the international judges scores objectively and get her to a place that seriously competes for the Olympic Team next summer.
Or Leanne Wong
The traveling alternate could Suni Lee.
Tbh I doubt it. She’s barely comeback and hasn’t hit one of her best events that they’d definitely would use her for and we have many good beam workers to work with. Also she has kidney issues so it’s kind of a safe bet that may be considered when deciding the team.
For those on Android who are having trouble with the sound, we found this troubleshooting video that we think might help. The quickest solution is to reset the device. ruclips.net/video/CHNtce7cQK0/видео.html
I saw someone comment that they just closed the app and it worked.
That worked for me too. I didn't have to restart my phone 😊 just close and restart the app
Are you allowed to ask Alicia that about Sam in the mix zone during Worlds?
Locks for worlds
-Simone, Shilese, Leanne
Most likely to make it
-Joscelyn, Skye
Maybe will make it
-Jordan,Jade,Zoe
SMALLL CHANCE of making it
-Tiana,Kayla
Trigger Warning: Kerry Perry is said in the first 10 seconds of this video.
What's wrong with her?
@@DJcyberslash Re-listen all of 2017 Gymcastic podcasts.
That’s your homework.
@@JoshuaFazeli Learn full stack web development. That's your homework.
Dumb response.
Worlds Team (as of Nationals):
Assured (barring injury):
Simone Biles
Shilese Jones
Leanne Wong
Likely:
Skye Blakely (cannot fall on any apparatus during Selection Camp and up to Worlds preliminaries, mental toughness is in question and yes I said it 🙄)
Suni Lee (dependent on health + being able to do a bars routine)
Jordan Chiles (needs to show selection committee she can be consistent and score .5 - .7 higher on all events except vault)
Kaliya Lincoln (Reminds me of Gabby Douglas in 2011 when she had that disastrous beam at Nationals but Kaliya had it on bars, needs to show the committee she will not fall on any event during Selection Camp, just needs 13’s for bars and beam to be in the mix with her vault and floor scores, esp. if Suni is on the team)
Still in the Mix:
Jocelyn Roberson (needs to show selection committee she can score 2nd highest on vault, 3rd highest on floor, and does not fall on bars and beam)
Jade Carey (Needs to show improvement on splits and dance leaps and must fall into top 2 on vault and top 3 on floor while scoring mid 13’s on bars and beam)
Katelyn Jong (Needs to show selection committee she is Top 3 for bars and beam and cannot fall on any event thru Worlds Prelims to show consistency)
Tiana Sumanasekera (Must show she can score 14 on at least 2 or 3 events and does not fall on bars and beam)
Outside Shot:
Zoe Miller (Needs 14.7+ thru World Prelims and cannot fall on beam)
Nola Matthews (Needs higher D scores to compete and with no falls)
Couldn’t agree more with literally every point you made. Simone being back is obviously huge, but the highlight for me was Leanne’s floor the second night. On fire.
Leanne definitely is not a lock, skye is.
@@FlyingPancake0390I know this is controversial but I would basically build the team around that Floor performance because it was STUNNING.
Head Coach: Landi’s
Assistant Coach: Jenny Rowland (I know it’s a dream but…)
@@marsbars2889We all ❤ adore ❤Skye but she is not a lock:
She falls in competitions more often than not, and it happens at unfortunate moments. She needs more mental strength during competitions.
Leanne is a World AA Silver medalist and never falls. She’s a lock.
@@JoshuaFazeliLeanne fell at classics 2022 and at classic 2023 had a komova beam dismount equivalent to a fall. Not counting her worlds selection camp problems because she was injured. I’ve been a Leanne fan since 2018 so it’s great to see her go 8/8 at nationals but she is not at the consistency of Kyla/Aly/Simone yet.
Neither Leanne nor Skye are locks. Skye because suni could beat her on bars and beam at camp even only doing a 5.8 bars routine. Leanne because Jordan absolutely can defeat her in the AA at camp if they both hit, and specifically on bars and floor where Jordan/Leanne are most likely to compete. Now Jordan herself has had eras of consistency and also random falls, so even if she outscores Leanne I could see them taking Leanne instead.
The only locks are Simone and Shi.
When will the US World team be announced?
Sept. 20th -- stay tuned. We'll have a reaction show when the news drops.
Not sure of its just me but I'm not getting any audio on this vid
We just checked the audio on multiple devices... seems to be working for us. Anyone else having this issues?
Works for me
No audio for me on my Android
No audio here either
I don't have audio on my android either, thank you.
She has a diamond in her teeth?
locks def: simone, shilese, skye
specialist: kaliya lincon
supporting spot: leanne
i honestly dk why people are saying skye isn’t a lock when she was the 2nd highest scorer on 3 events, numerically it’s smarter to take her along w a floor specialist (kaliya lincoln) and strong aa support to fill in anywhere (leanne)
Jade did better than her scores indicate. She was underscored on everyone of her routines. Jade has been invited to the selection camp. Jade is veteran with lots of success in the international competitions.
yeah she's the one gymnast that tends to score better internationally it's very suspicious.
Why not bring the facility to Atl… i would love that!
Can someone explain the bonuses the men get?
This is a very crude explanation but they get a percent bonus based on how high their D score is. The level at which the bonus starts is different for each event. The idea is to get the men to try more difficult skills without fear of missing national team and therefore funding if higher difficulty causes them to make a mistake at a qualifier. At the last Olympics they were several points behind other teams maximum possible score because our difficulty was just not comparable to the podium teams. Even with clean routines they really didn't have a chance to make the podium. They lowered the bonus points this year as compared to last year and those bonuses were not taken into account in putting together the world team.
It's either in last year's US classic or Nationals that Brett McClure explains more details about what maximum possible start scores they want to see to be competitive. I rewatched them on RUclips while impatiently waiting for the new gymnastics season to start if you are interested enough to search out.
Still disagree with taking highest potential team. Spencer, if any of your 3 bars workers cant go in TF last minute, you have to sub in lincoln or joc on bars and possibly beam. Toooooo risky. Tokyo taught us that. Accept *slightly lower vault scores (joc added a few tenths only) and avoid potential disaster. A team needs 4 all-arounders for insurance purposes and one specialist. Leanne is top 5 on all 4 events and 14+ on 3 events. She deserves the team.
You could probably also get away with 3 AA and 2 event specialist as long as the are strong on 3 events
@vjones4769 yes for sure, especially if they are different events. In this specific case, I wouldnt have two specialists that are strong on the exact same 2 events (vault and floor) and BOTH potential disasters on bars. If Suni were full strength on bars and beam, then her as a specialist and a "leg event' joc or lincoln as other specialist ok. But not the team Spencer named. Simply maximizing *potential high score without considering worst case scenarios is foolhardy, again exhibit A is Tokyo when Simone withdrew 5 minutes before bars one touch warmups.
@@wileecoyote671 absolutely agreed. The committee relied too heavily on one person (Simone) to carry the team. Jade should have absolutely been on the team over Grace. I think Tom Forster and team were trying to distance themselves from the stink of the previous regime. (Which is understandable, but honestly also why they took silver).
i watched this whole thing to find out who spencer didn't recognize!!!! i need the scoop
When is worlds?
September 30-October 8
What’s the white leo curse???
Normally when gymnasts wear white leos (for whatever reason) they have a disastrous competition and/or have a bunch of falls and mistakes. No idea why honestly 😅
@@elishadeesI did not realize that was a thing but knew what they meant when they said the white leo curse. I just know I wouldn't be able to focus and paranoid about what might show through my white leotard!
@@elishadees ok!!! Ty!!!
@@joyfuljaj id be more afraid to get my period in a white leo
Are Suni and Jade getting invited to camp?
They are not 😢
@@tv-21 Source? Sun can petition based on injury and Jade has an Olympic gold medal to toss her weight around with plus her AA score wasn't that low and she may contribute to team USA on vault.
Human rights? Babies are humans too. 🤦♀️
when they changed it back to a 5 person team they also needed to change the rules to 4 up on each event at worlds/olympics in team final. 3 up 3 count still caters to specialists and 3 people isn't a team! 3 up 3 count screws over gymnasts who deserve to be on the team like leanne. sorry but suni doesn't deserve to be on the team, no matter what she does in the next few weeks, and neither does lincoln. if someone gets injured or simone gets the spins again, it's not fair to the others; it's not fair even if everyone is healthy. the team SHOULD be simone, shilese, leanne, josc and skye, alt: jade.... and they need to pick the team at nationals like the men and get rid of all the games and politics..
I don't see how you can justify leaving Skye off of the team right now. Also, Jade and Josc's dance movement is mid. They're clear what they want Americans to do a better job at internationally, and I say we send the ones who would do those things.
@@KaiOpaka thanks for watching!
@@KaiOpakaJade won individual gold and bronze last year.