2096 An Unusual Spring Motor
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- You can find the STL files and more build details here www.thingivers...
the original video by Bailytwick1 is here • SPRING POWERED MOTOR
Don't forget to check out my companion channels TnT Onibus here / @tntomnibus and TnT Talk Time found here / @tnttalktime 
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A pendulum is another good mechanical analogy for a tank circuit. It stores energy as Gravitational Potential and Kinetic. It even has a resonant frequency.
I'm also baffled . Anyway I'm reminded that the energy in an engine used to compress the valve springs is returned after the apex of rotation of camshaft is reached, maybe 70% efficiency. Many think it's completely lost energy .
nic one mate - i agree - cheers
@@ThinkingandTinkeringMaybe a better outcome with four springs. One on the down stroke and the up stroke as well as on both sides of the flywheel🤙🏻
That's my intellectual property please tell this person to remove this video
@@jamesmatheson9624 no sir, you prove that statement first. And even if it were he changed a few things which makes it perefctly legal
Without the spring it would spin even longer!
You are right, that's must be a joke or something
I mean, it's a fine mechanical analogy for the tank circuit, but it isn't a "motor" and doesn't create and "free energy", or even store any energy that it didn't just steal from the flywheel.
It also won't have a specific frequency like an oscillator. It'll just slow down until it no longer has enough energy to overcome the spring..
Exactly what I was thinking. The energy returned to the flywheel by the spring.... Has to be less than than the energy it took to bend the spring plus the friction of the roller against the spring.
Throw it out of the window of the space shuttle, it’ll keep on spinning 😵💫
It has to run less time than just the wheel alone because of the friction you're adding.
its okay its made of ice actually
you also get less power out of an inductor and capacitor than you would if you just stored it in a capacitor. but they're still such useful circuits that they are everywhere. as a simple mechanical device i could see this having lots of uses for quickly interchanging types of motion and mechanical energies.
@@jameshughes3014 I was thinking this would only be useful if you wanted to store up energy in the flywheels spin to be used at a certain point in its revolution. maybe like a hammer or pile driver situation.
But probably with less variation in speed during a big chunk of the operating time. I mean, a less step gradient (but sawtoothy ) between the max and min (not being able to do a full turn) speeds, except at the very beginning where I expect a sharp drop the first time the peg contacts the blade, if I get it right
This video is what I call an idiot trap
A proper flywheel tank circuit would require the wheel to come to a stop and change direction of rotation. A good example can be found in mechanical wrist watches that employ a balance wheel and coil spring.
What would the difference in rotation time be between the unit with and without the spring?
Yer that's the real test of it makes any difference
Without the spring it will go longer, less resistance. It educational as a form of oscillating stabilizer, not as a magical generator
how effective is it? it looked like it slowed down as much as you'd expect without the spring.
I was curious about that too, maybe even last run time with the spring
Exactly. There is no reason to believe the wheel will run longer with the spring hindering the movement.
@@Real46 still fun tho
this will only shorten it because you ad more friction
It's a stabilizer, not an extender
But shouldn't this slow down more quickly simply due to the added friction? I don't get the point in adding the spring....
Springs have there own stoted potenchial energy,so its efectivly like incteasing the size of the flyfheel the more stored ennergy the longer it takes for it to spool down and release its energy
The friction can be reduced by adding small roller bearings with very low coefficient of friction to the end of the pin that comes in contact with the spring. That said, the system as is works because of the energy stored in the spring is used up in push the flying into its next circular motion.
@@kelvinnixon9502 Well okay but this would only mean a benefit If you could preload the spring. Otherwise IT Just magages a Part of the flywheels Power to operate.
And If you could simply add weight to the flywheels I think you should Go this way, have only one moving Part and reduce the noise.
Agreed. People seem to be ignoring the pressure required to push the spring downward will slow it more than the return spring action gain due to friction.
Im not sure the spring adds anything to that system apart from some mechanical losses.
The flywheel should spin for longer without the spring I’m afraid.
Another show to see if we are critically thinking
Yes, I agree with that. The spring can only return the energy that it has absorbed in the first place. In addition, however, the pin rubs over the surface and thus brakes the wheel.
@@MaikWeberyes and no. There is a Point the weight is in balance to itselve's weight. Than it phushes downwards. Do consider, a ocelating mechanism neads a bit of free binding. Maybe it is hitting a bit to much😅
Don't you have to spin it in the other direction as the push on the longer lever will require less force ?
Whatever force is absorbed by the spring is stored as elastic energy, regardless of how or where the wheel makes contact. It discharges exactly %100 of that energy back into the angular momentum after the cam passes the mid-way point. This implies that the same effect is reached regardless of direction of spin. Either the wheel encounters greater resistance at the beginning of the turn (and stores more energy in the spring) or it encounters less resistance and has more energy saved up in its kinetic momentum to push through the greater resistance at the end of the turn.
@@thescrape Have you tested it, or is that what you think? I will disagree with you as to say a 100% gets transferred back as that would assume the machine is perfect, thus efficiency and a lot of other forces suddenly come into play like resonance, stiffness of the spring/lever, etc. moving a mass with a lever from the middle point of the lever will take more power to start moving the spring. the same reason your car use more fuel when you jam the pedal down rather than accelerate slowly. Inertia is a big factor. You are essentially saying all energy will be transferred back to the wheel irrespective of the rotation direction, not taking into account the levering effect, for your statement to be true, both sides of the spring need to be anchored, which it is not, thus rotational direction should have an impact on the efficiency.
No Work is done, so no Power is generated. This isn't an actual motor but an almost-perpetual motion machine. Energy is lost (converted to heat, rather )through friction as the wheel spins, but the elastic coefficient of the spring gives as good as it gets (100%). Yes I am essentially saying all energy is transferred back into the wheel regardless of the rotation direction. Can you describe this "levering effect" using known Physics? Does it somehow invalidate the first law of Thermodynamics or are we squabbling over a miniscule efficiency trade-off? I believe the efficiency is equal, and you do not? Well only one of us is wrong, perhaps we can agree on that!😁
@@thescrape power is transferred between the flywheel and the spring, so work is definitely being done Levers are known physics, look it up. The point of impact when the flywheel are turned first to the short side of the lever need to move the spring from the middle, thus the springs force will initially be higher than at the end. To exasperate the effect, lift the spring higher to the bottom of the pin when the pin is at the very top of it's rotation, it will take more force to turn the flywheel towards the spring where it's anchored than the other way. I guess one of us is wrong.
could you show what a 'bad' tuning is, and how to achieve a good tuning? or is it just "the longer it spins, the better the tuning"? would putting a bearing on the lever pressing the spring improve performance, since there wouldn't be the friction of the arm dragging across the spring, as the bearing would simply roll along the spring surface instead of dragging?
For greater efficiency, I would suggest a roller bearing in place of the solid round stock for your drive pin. Also, in the end where you show your version in action, you rotated the flywheel in the wrong direction. Because of it's mechanical nature you have to take into account levers. The drive pin on your flywheel needs less force to bend your "spring" when it's farther from the fulcrum and your "spring" can return more energy to the drive pin when it's closer to the fulcrum. Yes, it kinda ran, but you could see it losing potential rapidly in the clockwise (for the viewer) direction. Now, if you were to use a straight lever with a counterweight instead of a spring mechanism, I believe the opposite would hold true.
Looks like fun, in the first demo the peg was hitting the spring further away from the fixed end (clockwise rotation), In your demo of your printed one it hit closer to the fixed end first (anti clockwise) I'm wondering if this makes any difference?
It does😂 the resonance point is to find the push back moment😮
I would assume, clockwise it loses more energy, pushing down the spring from the back, than coming from the front and the stored push up force is lower than in the counter clockwise run🤔
The first way you get more up-force, but over a shorter time, so there isn’t much difference in efficiency cw vs ccw.
@@steveschunk5702 I think testing is in order here, considering the loud click it's making and it's hitting the spring more in the center where the effect of the springs mass will come into play, not to mention the resonance that there will have to be.(Imagine a softer spring wobbling) By hitting it on the end first and sliding along would seem to be a better and smoother option and the wheel should loose less energy at a time like a lever... It's easier to start jacking a car up by using the end of the lever than grabbing it by the middle. There are a whole lot of forces moving around here, so I'm all for hitting the end of the spring first and waiting for someone to prove me wrong.
Nice. Have you measured the time of the rotation, i.e., from initiating the flywheel to its stop, with and without the spring.; of course you should have the same energy to start the flywheel which is quite difficult to do manually but with a "starter rope" it can be quite precise. What do you think ?
I'd like to see those results indeed
Well obviously without the spring it will be longer. Good question is how much.
@@MrHerhor67 then what's the deal with this contraption ?
@@peterfelecan3639 stabilization, like a watch escape
@@TheChzoronzon it means that the stabilization's price is energy perdition
Wouldn’t it help if the pin which strikes the spring had a small ball bearing fitted to eliminate drag on the spring ?
Why do you call this a Motor? It's as much a motor as a pendulum is
yeah it is i guess
You're spinning it the wrong way, the cam must push on least resistance end 1st, then as the cam travels along the spring the force increases which gives a better kick upwards.
Doing it in reverse as you are means the cam enters into springs most tensioned area and at exit on top on spring it's a weaker kick upwards!
Not bad, but if you turned the fly wheel the other way, I think it would be more effective.
I see the creator spun it in the right direction. Lol.
Robert, could you explain in more detail why this would have any advantage to just using a flywheel by itself? This one has the added friction of the peg rubbing on the spring with each turn. I don't see what you get out of this vs. just a flywheel; in this case, the flywheel is giving energy up to the spring, which then gives it right back, but with frictional losses. So what is gained by this?
Two questions about possible variations:
1. Is there a lower-friction way of pushing the spring? Perhaps a crank slider arrangement so the friction is at individual pivots rather than a peg rubbing on a strip of steel might work better?
2. This arrangement only stores and releases energy for the bottom 130˚ of rotation. Is there some way to arrange this so that more of the rotation of the flywheel is employed? Would that confer any benefits?
3. Is there any way to utilize an escapement like valve or something to gradually tap out energy from some stored source (elevated reservoir of water, sand, or even an elevated weight) to keep the wheel turning at a fairly constant speed? That might actually be useful.
I think it's more to do with the idea than actual practicality.
Anytime you do any form of energy transmission/conversion in a real life scenario, energy is lost. So a flywheel by itself will run longer.
That being said, a flywheel by itself has no practical application either. Not without a way to get the energy in and out. This could be a way to turn linear motion into rotary motion or vice versa.
this can allow a flywheel to not spin that fast while accumulating the same energy in the system
I see I've found the nutter side of YT again
It seems that it is merely a curiosity. Does nothing but elicit oohs and aahs from people as they pass by. Esthetic junk.
Its not junk the math is hard to see that its geometrically perfect. The pin doesnt have as much friction as it looks. for its sliding accros the pin the rotational force equals some where about 45 degrees whitch equates to a cutting force on that angle it has the most energy. It seems usless because no one wants to put out the energy and resources to build somthing like this big enough to make somthing happen. Using the leveraging force of the weel say about 10 feet in diameter driving a smaller wheel say about 10 inches bothe desighned the same but fed into each other by a gear force. And then ate the most leverage build your generator. Before you go perpetual you wind the clock every 12 hours. I would make the system restart it self with the excess energy and see how long it runs if you wanna test the efficiency of a system sping the wheel by letting it drop a rock. And then see how far it can lift it. If i had resources i would get into a bounch of stuff. You want to have a series of smaller wheels to lift. The more you add the more inturnal friction you get. An unballenced wheel and this concept would probably look pretty cool but some of the energy transfer would go into the slaush of liquid due to timeing. I feel like im venting.
Nice Rebuild!
Great that you give Background Info and Explanations, i know this Video for Years and always wondered about it, your replication does answered some queszions i had,
One day we will see an Ovwerunity Device on this Channel!
No, we won't. Hopefully he sticks to science and "sciencey things" and avoids snake oil.
Yes there will be overunity device next year 2 of Tesla's investions that where hidden. I got info from a scientist that worked with Tesla he told before his passing , I'm building when funds are available to me next year , the big question will Rob happily show on his channel.
A secret sauce the motor generator 2 flywheels 90° angle to each other , flywheels with identical gear ratio 1:1 , generator is horizontal positioned, the absolute must or it won't work the 4 pole 1800rpm motor has to run on 240v 60hz and 1800rpm it has to spin same direction as earth's rotation , yes the reason the electricity grid isn't 240v 60hz anymore but a VFD Variable Frequency Drive can fix that , as scientist said if Hz is off or rpm it won't lock in sync and no free power , the drive motor once sync will use alot less power that's when overunity starts.
The science with 1800rpm comes into the earth's rotation speed too which is 1800rpm also.
I wasn't told the size motor to generator kW difference I'm planning 2hp to 1kw as a test ratio then add more gen kW later if possible or just build bigger version.
Yes the equal sized flywheels where described as being 400mm in size with gear on outer edge I'd say good for 4 to 5kw generator with that size and weight 10 to 15kg.
It's real scientist even said if Hz is 58 it won't lock up it's that important and also have motor flywheel inline (left to right) with rotation of earth as close as possible .
@patrickskahill2661, good Lord, I hope that was intended as sarcasm. If not, I hope you haven't given all your money to the guy who pitched that to you.
A ball bearing race on the contact cam would increase efficiency
I can't see it being as efficient as simply letting the flywheel spin unhindered. Fun thought for a mechanism regardless. Maybe it can be altered to serve as an alternative output for a secondary device.
It'll eventually stop spining. Because of the size of the weight and the amount of initial spin it'll take a couple minutes, but it WILL STOP!
What about setting a coil around the magnets? Could the resistance of the coil/magnetic flux be tuned out? I might try this. Thanks for the inspiration.
this can allow a flywheel to not spin that fast while accumulating the same energy in the system
Robert, please show the difference of rotation 'Duration' with and without the spring, to illustrate the theory
The original video shows the "engine" clearly speed up during the last take, so, as I guessed right away, there has to be an electirc motor in the axle "bearing". You could hide tiny speaker wires under the paint.
you didn't guess you imagined - you also didn't watch the back up video - there is no attempt at free energy here
@@ThinkingandTinkering I meant the original video that You linked, not Your's recreation which obviously isn't a hoax, but an experiment, which just shows how it can't gain energy out of nowhere :)
I have a solution looking for a problem. I have now learnt FreeCad, and have mastered 3D printing. Now I have an almost infinite making capability. Nice.
Sorry but that is not an motor, it is a flywheel being slowed by friction from a spring rubbing against it. Energy from the flywheel is being used to push the spring. It is basically like the flywheel of a combustion engine pushing a valve open via a camshaft but minus the rest of the engine....wtf
We know Flywheel is equivalent to Inductor and Spring is equivalent to Capacitor but like electric circuit we cannot make mechanical circuit to make tank circuit, everytime you are bending the spring you are adding energy from flywheel to spring and not other way round, as *energy is conserved*
pushing the spring down requires energy which you don't get back so it will slow down fast than without the spring no free lunch
I'm a little confused about why this is here. Usually when you do a video about some magical motor that runs forever without power input, you're debunking it. LC tank resonators don't run perpetually either. This is possibly the most I've ever been disappointed in one of your videos.
i don't understand - why would anyone think this was perpetual motion? as i said in the video this is the mechanical equivalent of tank circuit - and to my mind - somewhat obviously - friction is going to stop it turning
@@ThinkingandTinkering perhaps what threw my expectations off was it being referred to as a "motor." Not trying to split hairs over vocabulary, but that seemed very misleading in this case. A flywheel is not a motor, whether or not it is attached to a resonant element. Otherwise motor means "anything with inertia," which makes the term nearly meaningless. That said, I probably should have just ignored the word choice.
I think it's an interesting mechanism and may give some resonant amplification at a specific speed if properly tuned. I hope you attach this resonant flywheel mechanism to a motor in a future video.
Did you test which direction spinning the wheel lasted longer? Did you test putting a small bear and small wheel on the pin so as to minimize drag when it hits the spring (or lubricant or both?)?
It's not awesome, it's not a motor, it is powered by your input and stops when that energy has been exhausted by friction. Wow.
Turning it the other way might be better, the initial push will be on the far end of the lever traveling down and coming closer to the anchor point of the spring which in turn will turn it up with more force since the spring is shorter now. The way you're doing it should also work, but I hear a loud tap every time it hits the shorter stiffer part of the spring first which means energy are lost through sound and thus more friction on the spring. As a test of my theory it would be interesting to see a timed experiment to either side and verify if I'm right or bonkers 🤣
You have to compare it to that same weight with those bearings but without the spring. Otherwise, the test is meaningless. I have skateboard wheels that spin that long.
Instead of a spring. What about a bi metal strip like in an old indicator? Supply a voltage to the strip and the fly wheel with a brush and when it contacts it heats up through resistance and clicks on giving a small kick to the wheel.
You spun it the wrong way and that piece making contact with the saw blade is round...not the same shape as on the video
It is rotating the wrong way! It would work better the other way due to the leverage of the spring.
If the spring was not there the flywheel wood spin for longer, so /i don't think this is a useful idea
A flywheel with extra friction, great...
Does it make a difference, where the original design has a flywheel whose weight is concentrated at the circumference vs your design where the weight of the flywheel is uniformly distributed across the radius?
With magnet bearing that thing would spin for ages.
Maybe it is more efficient, if entirely removing the spring?
The magnets are needed for the coil in the frame to add energy to make up for frictional losses using a battery in the base or a 2'' hole in the table so you can move it around a bit to show their are no wires,
very cool idea. I wonder how long it would spin without the spring vs having the spring? Guess I'll have to give that a go :)
Not hard to guess, there is extra friction on the rotating pin bumping the spring.
The spring can only supply as much energy as it is getting from the flywheel. The flywheel has a finite amount of energy input at the start. friction in the bearings and between the spring and flywheel further dissipate the available energy. I can't see how the system runs any longer than the flywheel on its own. The original is fake.
You were doing well to admit to not understanding how it could prolong the energy dissipation. I think that to call it fake is disrespectful. I, too, would like a direct comparison and, if this shows a real advantage, I'd want to know the underlying principle. If nothing else, he's given me a theory about how my guitar's delay pedal might work.
Could you get it to run longer if you got rid of the friction between the armature and spring?
Yes, to an extent but that is where the energy to compress the spring comes from. So to completely (as much as possible anyway) remove the friction at the contact point also would remove the needed energy to push the spring down making it closer to just being a flywheel. The purpose of the magnet weights in this build are for that very purpose. They reduce the friction by making the spring action softer in it's spring back. Hence easier to push the spring down.
In a tank circuit you've got cap impedance 1/2(pi)fC and inductor impedance 2(pi)fL. You fix one and adjust the other so that they cancel at a specific value of "f". It's an amazing thing to watch in circuit simulation software. Mechanical analogs would be mass, "springiness" and rotation speed, I'm guessing. Without giving it much thought because it's late, I'm half lit and probably shouldn't be posting RUclips comments.
Now all you need for the "RL TANK CIRCUIT" Is super-conductivity. A thermoacoustic heat engine is kind of the same thing, just a heat oscillator.
How does its motion compare to that of an unhindered flywheel? I assume it slows down more quickly because there will be some additional losses in the spring but perhaps this "tuned circuit" will maintain a constant speed for longer because of the resonance.
It must go on longer without the spring, because the reduction in energy when it compresses the spring is never going to be equalled by the return of energy by the spring, and some of the energy is lost through heat in the spring, something that would not happen if the spring were not there!
The energy equation does not look _sound_ 👀
@@peterweeds4682 I agree. In fact thinking about it it isn't really a good analogue of the LC circuit because the current in an LC circuit reverses direction as the capacitor charges and discharges. To model that more accurately the spring would need to be able to stop the flywheel and send it spinning in the opposite direction. I guess the only impact of the spring is to impose a small ripple on the motion of the flywheel but overall it will simply cause it to slow down faster due to the additional losses.
So if the spring both acts and resistance and thrust, which I assume is equal, what benefit does it have over just a free-spinning flywheel?
Maybe a better outcome with four springs. One on the down stroke and the up stroke as well as on both sides of the flywheel🤙🏻
Did it function in the opposite direction? I could see how the spring seems to work well in this direction
might be interesting to have 2 springs, one in each direction. :-)
@@CrudelyMade maybe in a multiple rotor setup
Needs to be tested.... Friction added. How long will it run with spring and without? I have a hunch.
will it keep going forever like that or just for a long time? That's neat, thanks.
I never knew about these. I always thought that spring motors always had to be rewound but this is great. What are some modern applications?
It should not spin for any longer than just the flywheel on it's own. There a frictional losses between the pin and the spring, noise and heat produced by the spring action. So, just teh flywheel itself should rotate longer. But it won't go click, click, click ..
This is so cool. Thanks for the demonstration. What an innovative way to make a flywheel too, using a barbell weight, thank you, your videos are amazing
I'm a bit concerned at how much this resembles all those perpetual motion machines that people try to pass as legitimate... I wouldn't think you'd go down the direction of pseudoscience so I'll hold out hope that this was either a mistake or a misunderstanding.
i don't understand - why would anyone think this was perpetual motion? as i said in the video this is the mechanical equivalent of tank circuit - and to my mind - somewhat obviously - friction is going to stop it turning
@@ThinkingandTinkering The original video shows the flywheel accelerating, which is only possible with an external power source. I don't think that's what you did here of course, but I also don't think it's quite the same thing as a tank circuit, at least not to the same extent as something like a pendulum or LC circuit. It seems to me that it's merely a way to get a non-constant rotational speed out of the flywheel, at the cost of additional friction. If you had an alternate setup that stores the entire energy of the flywheel into a coil spring and then causes it to reverse direction as that spring energy is released, that would seem more like a rotational analog to a tank circuit to me. But regardless, the original video seems to be a dishonest attempt at a perpetual motion machine which is why it's concerning to me.
@@OceanBagel Nowhere does he say anything about perpetual motion, any person with a basic knowledge of thermodynamics knows that perpetual motion machines do not exist.
@@Voidy123@Voidy123 I never said he called it a perpetual motion machine. I said it resembles a perpetual motion machine and that it might have been featured here by mistake. The original video wasn't a mistake, it was intentionally deceitful with a hidden power source driving the motor. And it did successfully deceive people, judging by the comments on that video and reuploads calling it free energy. Robert's version was not externally powered in this way and he didn't try to deceive anyone about the mechanism, but I still think it was a mistake to feature this mechanism without calling this out.
Motor? I'll just leave this here #2 should be germane, but isn't lol
1: one that imparts motion
specifically : PRIME MOVER
2: any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion: such as
a
: a small compact engine
b
: INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE
especially : a gasoline engine
c
: a rotating machine that transforms electrical energy into mechanical energy
Mate just had an idea, What if you marry a Peltier with some Nitinol metal and your Gens? If it somehow oscillates between the hot and cold side? The question is can the Nitinol do enough extra work to power the TEG and have some left over power?
Would have loved to seen two identical forced spins, one with the spring and one without to compare the durations of the spinning flywheel ... MISSED OPERTUNITY.
Why didn't you duplicate this machine 1:1? yours won't hang around forever. The spring's pushing force is negligible because it is placed straight. The old machine has a spring bent in the form of an arc, and it has a movable weight that shortens the arc, thereby increasing the strength of the arc. You did it wrong. Was it on purpose? Can't you duplicate it 1:1? Your machine is bad.
Dear sir plz spin the wheel in opposit direction. I think then it will run forever.
Plz check it....regards❤
Everyone forgets that... There's nothing in physics that says perpetual motion is impossible.
The caveat is, you'd have to eliminate all friction and resistance and part wear/degradation and if you've managed that somehow you have a machine that will operate in perpetuity - that's an engineering problem to solve.
Of course, physics steps back in once you've got that machine that runs forever and gently reminds you "that's very cool, however, if you take energy from it, it will stop... Thanks for playing".
A very entertaining and curious contraption but I don't think it quite works as a mechanical analog of the tank circuit. The flywheel just runs in one direction it I don't think it has a distinct resonance frequency. It has a clever simplicity so that the flywheel can keep spinning in the same direction but I don;t see it as a trank circuit equivalent. A pendulum fo rexample would maintain teh same resonant frequency and only it's amplitude would decay with losses. Perhaps, a closer approximation of the tank circuit sumulated with a flywheel would be a stretchy cord (or a non-stretchable one connected to a spring) spooled up onto the shaft and spinning the flywheel back and forth.
The interesting thing about this solution is that energy could be pumped in at every turn, giving a small push to the flywheel to maintain motion.
Please, just drop a bit of oil on the spring to reduce friction! 😀Or, use a connecting rod but of course, that'd kill the brilliant simplicity of this solution.
Place that in a vacuum, difficult but would reduce a lot. This I love though. All about the timing.
A simple machine. I wonder how efficient it could be with a low torque motor on bigger applications. Use the motor to basically keep it moving. But not use as much power as you would to just run a fly wheel. I know we have gone far past belt driven machinery in shops atleast. But there is potential
Not a particularly good analogy, because while the inductor needs the capacitor to form a circuit in which the current can keep "sloshing" repeatedly between the two, the flywheel would happily keep turning without the spring - actually, for longer than WITH the spring. A better illustration of this would be a heavy ball with a climbing incline on one side and a horizontal spring on the other: if you let the ball roll down the incline it will run into the spring, compress it, then turn around being accelerated by the decompressing spring and run back up the incline part way (then repeat). In this case, taking away either side would prevent any cycling for the ball - it would just roll away until friction expends all its energy and never return, just like one-way discharging a capacitor charge or inductor field alone would work...
And, most mechanical watches have an oscillating wheel, which gets a tiny kick from a spring driven system...spring plus flywheel, plus energy source
A torsional pendulum is probably a more direct flywheel utilising analogy to an LCR resonator. The spring constant is the C, the moment of inertia is L and the friction losses R. A simple spring, mass, damper system would be very similar, just no rotational inertia, a linear one instead. The direction of rotation (current) reverses like AC current does in a tank. With the mechanical system here the flywheel rotates only in one direction and the loading and unloading of the spring is transient (i.e non-sinusoidal) which means it has harmonic distortion. Its cool, and relatively efficient, but not as efficient as just the flywheel and its bearings if energy storage an motion for a long time are desired.
The closest electrical analogy to this system is probably a switching converter that is switching an otherwise shorted inductor charged with a large current periodically (briefly and synchronously twice per cycle) in series with a tank circuit. The spring cantilever is the tank resonator and the flywheel is the large shorted inductor. The inductor may as well be a capacitor connected periodically in parallel if that is easier to think about - you could consider it as an electrochemical battery too and the posts contacting the cantilever as active switching devices which periodically recharge the cantilever from the battery/inductor/capacitor whatever. This is a lot like a clock escapement, with the flywheel being the power source and the cantilever resonator being the frequency determining element.
There is one additional complexity however which the electrical system wouldn't model unless it was a bit more complex. The period of the cantilever and the rotation of flywheel force each other via the periodic coupling of the pin which is physically attached to the flywheel. This means the forcing period is inversely proportional to the current stored and the amplitude of the cantilever response will vary as the flywheel discharges, in fact as it decays it could scan across the cantilever resonance if started above resonance and its amplitude would peak and then decay as its slows. If the energy stored in the flywheel is very large with respect to the cantilever at least, if they were closer to on par you have something like a coupled resonator system and the behaviour would be complex, even chaotic for some tunings.
Wouldnt the forces be the same, u push the spring to come back up, forces should be the same or?
*Instructions unclear.* Mine keeps speeding up, and also, the neighbor's dog blew up for no apparent reason too.
I'm not saying the dog explosion was related, but..... (I never heard a cat laugh before now.)
How is this a "motor"
Its just a fly wheel with some extra load.
the spring can only push back with less force then it needed to compress so your better of without the spring at all.
If you want a mechanical equivalent to a LC tank look at a Pendulum or Harmonic oscillator
Imagine building a beefier version using a flywheel from a wood chipper and an automotive leaf spring! Perhaps that could drive a modest electricity generator?
why would I waste energy making something that wastes energy?
Still nice to watch though, watch.... yes, its like a watch, wind it up and it runs for a time, or is it 'runs to pass time'.....?
The machine you tried to copy was oscillating although the video did not make that totally clear. It was essentially the same as a balance wheel in a watch which is a very common mechanism. What you actually made was rotating and totally not a tank circuit.
Robert, I think you need to follow this up with an explanation to all of these commentors who think it is going to run longer because of the added sprung. I know you showed this as a mechanical analog to a tank circuit, but a lot of folks are thinking you just pitched something that is actually creating energy. Let them down easy.
Spring.
Next you will be saying that there is no Santa claus.
Even Santa Clause has to feed his reindeer.
i think you are right mate - i have been reading through the comments - i can't understand why they would think that but apparently they do - i will do my best mate lol
Now I want to figure out how big of a flywheel I need to push a generator to feed a battery bank... make power 24/7!!! What do you think, sir?
The flywheel needs to be balanced or it is a double pendulum with extra steps, hard to "tune" to a desired frequency. The beat frequency of wheel pin and spring will make it stop prematurely due to sudden static friction at zero crossing.
Intinya energi input harus lebih kecil dari pada energi output, agar putaran dapat berlanjut.
Could you supply the dimensions for the round wheel that has the drive pin . It probably isn’t critical but it would save
Me from guessing and wondering it I was doing it right.
It's not an exact equivalent of an LC circuit. The spring/mass oscillator is the exact equivalent. Adding a diode, another inductor and an infinite resistor all in series to the LC circuit would be closer to an exact equivalent.
A Toroidal Electro Mechanical Tank Circuit
In the center of a donut shaped toroidal 4 output/input coil, balanced on a cylinder, a magnetically reactive metal triangle, with the point down inside the rotating field.
One wire, output/input, connected to a Van Degraf antenna, in order to charge the environment or collect from the environment, can function as a source of input energy to charge the coil.
With a rotating magnetic field in the toroidal coil will cause the triangular piece of metal to resonate in the center. As the triangle metal piece moves it will also change the magnetic field generating electrical energy, multiplying across the other three wires and preserving the charge state for an extended amount of time.😊
Any amount of push up on the roller pin attached to the fly wheel, is lost in the energy needed for it to rotate and push the spring down with that roller pin.....so it just slows down and stops.
like a stationary magnet, and a magnet attached to the axle of the flywheel......as the magnet on the axle rotates around and is repelled by the frame magnet that is stationary, it slows the wheel down some, even tho as it passes by, the magnet on the flywheel axle is now pushed away and in the direction needed to apply a forward torque on the axle to keep it going the way it was rotating.................
So the "spring powered motor" is the same physics in reality, and all of the mechanical forced needed to rotate and press the spring down with the roller pin...........uses up any benefit of the spring pushing back up on the roller and assisting in turning the flywheel axle , as the roller pin goes on by.............so the net effect is loss as usual, and it slows down.
IF you are serious about perpetuating movement, i can share with you two of my designs that show real potential.
Has the host Murray-Smith ever got any of his own creations out of the lab or workshop into mass-production? Brits are notorious for failing to do so - their promising ideas, innovations and inventions are usually either left to gather dust or the patents are bought by a faraway, non-British company or corporation who often just sit on them for a decade or three.
Paul G
So how long did it go ? I know it would very with how much engery you put into it and spring amplitude. But still how how long did it go? Best Regards No Free Lunch.
No way that a rotating flywheel can be energy storage in a resonant system. Now if the flywheel reversed direction periodically and traded energy with a spring, that could be an analog to an LC tank circuit. With a rotating flywheel resonant storage cannot happen. Our friend is pulling our leg here.
So I understand that perpetual motion machines, and their electrical equivalents, are impossible, but, seems like your illustration of the electronic circuit using a spring and a capacitor is close, except for the resistance. Is there something to be said for the same circuit but with the a little extra current added in, to replace what is lost due to resistance? Or maybe I am just describing what an electrical motor is now?
*OVER-UNITY CONFIRMED!!!!!* :trollishgrin:
the reason why it works is the cam pushes the spring further away from the fixed or pivot point when the cam moves down at 0 degrees, when the cam moves through to 180 degrees, the point of contact is closer to the pivot point this increases the force applied to the cam pushing it up .. the small weight for tuning balances out the energy required to keep it oscillating ... is the cam had a bearing .. less friction it would improve the operation . However one would have to increase the counter weight on the cam to balance the system. ... something to bear in mind ... the more perfect anything is made the less chance it will work ... equal and opposite forces cancel each other out ..
Great vidio, got ta build that for a tiki bar toy. Thanks for the morning coffee...
That’s simply not going to spin any longer with the spring than without the spring, with random minor variations for lubrication differences on the bearing and sliding surfaces from one test to the next.
what if the lever was creating an air pumping action pushing the rotating weight faster by jetting it into directional force picking up speed when lever springs up driving up the pin and bellows air pressure going from the down stroke getting more out than put in if did keep running , the vid ended without our seeing it continue going or slow to a stop which is most likely by friction.
I think you spun your model in the wrong direction? …the first model shown went counterclockwise, so the rod was in a rotation that pushed down onto the end of the spring, then is pushed up by the stiffer inner section of the spring. Your model was spun in the opposite way.
But the distance the flywheel start contacting the spring and when it leaves... So it is not good, not efficient, not so good analogy for the circuit, I think
Just letting it spin with no rubbing on the spring would let it run longer though...
I feel like it should have to go back and forth to be a proper analogy. With the spring stopping the wheel and pushing it back.
Can it be made to do any work? Even if perpetual motion were possible, what good would it be if you can't put a load on it?