Bioshock - What If the Rapture Civil War Never Happened? | What Would Happen if Rapture Survived?
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2018
- Welcome back my Rapture Family to another brand new Bioshock video. In today's video,
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Hey guys, hope you enjoy!
Good Job Bioshockhub
the next video in german :)
Say could you make a what if rapture gets discoverd by the navy or goverment
Wait, where’s your Discord link that was mentioned?
I actually think it could be interesting to play a pre-bioshock bioshock like something leading up to the civil war
I'd really be interested in that.
I've wanted that since I played the first game. I hope they do it.
This is what I’m hoping for in bioshock 3.. leading up to or during the fall of rapture!
Check out bioshock infinite burial at sea dlc
Isn't that what bioshock burial at sea part one is ? You get to what it was like before. Unless you mean a whole game of it.
Okay, I've given it some thought, and I think in a hypothetical universe where Jasmine ended up telling Andrew Ryan about Jack and he accepted him as his son and heir or something the game would basically revolve around Jack learning to be the next leader of Rapture. When he grows up Jack gets to do Quests for his old and dying father to help the progress of Rapture then Fontaine/Atlas shows up out of no where and tries to "lead the lamb astray" and tries to convince Jack that his father's way of governing was wrong.
Basically the entire game you would get to have choices that works in the favor of either Andrew or Frank and by the time Andrew dies and leaves Jack to lead, Jack will rule rapture depending on who's side he picked.
Idk just a shower thought uwu
Neat!
Id actually play that as an alternate sequel instead of infinite
It be cool to have a ending where you take both sides into consideration and run atlus in a balanced way, your own way
This reminds me of Far cry 4 and Detroit . Also, another point here in the comments was that Rapture was destined to fail anyway with people like Ryan, Fontaine, and Ram Running it. However, if the civil war didn't take place Sullivan and Maconough as well as more decent officials would be still alive, and society would have still been running even if failing. So there's quite a chance in this scenario you stated that Rapture may be revived. Especially now that Ryan is weakening with age and Fontaine is yet far from establishing his empire. In the endings, I think there will be a good pacifist one and a neutral one where Jack just sides with Ryan or Fontaine and a Bad ending if he listened to people like Cohen.
I am thinking Rapture semi-open world with Jack travel to bathysphere and Atlantic Express to do an errand for his father and Sinclair who was Jack's personal advisor. The more Jack travel he stumble upon the factions in Rapture who want to do a favor to him. There was Ryan's questline involve about supervising and investigating the employees like Bill, Julie, Cohen and Steinman and uncovered Atlas's activities. Sinclair's questline are involve around a dirty business but paying fare with high skill of negotiation also the quest are involved the open the Rapture to join the world market and become business juggernaut. Atlast questline are about sabotaging Ryan's line of production and help the common people with the dark twist in the end like a dark parody of Atlas's Shrugged. Lamb's questline involved around prison riot, finding Eleanor and become a Darkhouse victor of Rapture. Eleanor/Delta questline are about protecting/rescuing the pair from Lamb's cult and regaining the humanity to Delta. Tennebuam's quest is the side quest about rescuing little sisters ad help her researching the splicer cure in opposed to Suchong's. Thinker's questline is about finding his former master and creator and returning his humanity and bring the accuser to justice. Also the DLC quest that is Jack went through tears and having an adventure in Columbia with the whole new questline.
A civil war would have occurred even without the discovery of ADAM, simply because the closed environment didn't allow for people to grow and develop, such as the construction crew who wound up jobless and stuck in Pauper's Drop.
Rapture was a paradise for the rich and powerful, but the people that are stuck at the bottom of the food chain cleaning out the drains and disposing of trash would grow tired of never having a chance to rise above their station. I know the IDEA of Rapture is that by your own hard work you can succeed, but that's not realistic in a closed environment. There's only room for so many business ventures of any type. Civil unrest is guaranteed, especially combined with the cabin fever people were beginning to suffer from.
What interests me most about a Rapture which survives is that they don't have the outside influence on style and trends. Before the fall we see Rapture in 1958/59 and it's still the Art Deco style of the '40s; they never had the impetus to move forward. Musical styles are stagnant as well. So much of society is influenced by the variety of styles and cultures around us, and Rapture didn't have that. I firmly believe that they would have continued to develop technologically speaking, but I envision Rapture staying stylistically the same. Imagine living in a '40s era with the grand Art Deco sweeping style and grandiose designs, but with modern convinences. Sign me up for that.
But the question is still “if”. In a universe where a civil war doesn’t happen. Cmon buddy
@@MikeMike-dv7iv my first two paragraphs dealt with why I felt it was an invalid question, but my third paragraph discussed what I thought a Rapture without a civil war would look like. Reading comprehension for the win, buddy.
I think that Rapture without civil wars at all will eventually lead to a fallen empire like Sparta. Sparta by it's own was indeed a powerfull nation but they vehemently refuse to change their ways of living. Many fled the territory and by the time of Constantino only 40 spartans were left. All old age and living in the ruins of their "glorious" capital city. With Rapture it will happen the same. The people will leave, one way or the other. Only a few will remain untill the entire city crumble.
A game in Rapture, pre Civil War would be nice/interesting to explore!
I'd like that.
Honestly id rather have one taking place DURING the civil war but before Jack arrives. Where you play as an Artist who came to rapture after escaping the Soviet Union who is forced to pick a side. It'd be more like prey that there are side quests to do and stuff along side the main quest, but big areas to explore still.
Option 3. I agree with you! Ryan's philosophy may sound ideal on theory, but in reality, there will be people who won't get a piece of the pie (reference to the Why Can't I Have A Slice of the Pie song from BaS lol) and these people would eventually create unrest. Hence, there would eventually be a conflict in one form or another, that's for sure.
Still, it's always fun to imagine an alternate reality where the civil war didn't happen. It'd interesting to see a game/dlc set in this AU. I imagine we'll be playing as Jack who grew up as Ryan's son and he investigates the darker sides of Rapture, such as the kidnapping of little girls for Little Sisters production (like in BaS). He can even team up with an AU Booker and Elizabeth who run a private family investigation agency in Rapture (aka DeWitt & DeWitt's Investigation). Oooh it just sounds very exciting!
Personally I would kill to have a Bioshock game/DLC set in one of the timelines/realities that maybe Elizabeth has come across where Jack was brought back to Rapture by Ryan instead of Atlas/Fontaine and would help in rebuilding it in either the image of Andrew or Frank. I feel like Infinite set up possible sequel and prequel game that could show the many different "what if?" scenarios that could revolve around Jack mostly, and maybe other characters like Andrew Ryan, Frank Fomtaine, Brigid Tenenbaum, Charles Milton Porter, Subject Delta, etc.
IMO Rapture was pretty much always destined to be destroyed. If you look at the philosophy that the society of Rapture is based on, that being a sort of anarcho-capitalist ideology, which by its nature is a breeding ground for trouble and civil unrest, then you begin to see that even without Atlas, the discovery of Adam and Ryan's questionable decisions, Rapture is still likely to suffer from some sort of civil conflict. You get a taste of this in the 'Bioshock' novel by John Shirley, where he describes Rapture being far too overcrowded as a result of the large influx of workers that were originally needed to actually build and maintain the city. Once the building process was complete, most of these majority manual workers were unnecessary and so found themselves out of work, and with Rapture society being what it was, labour demands were very low. Meaning that simply finding another job for your average blue-collar worker was a nightmare. Being poor and out of work in Rapture would have been a very scary prospect, considering that the philosophy of rapture emphasised the need to not have any form of state or government so that the market or 'great chain' is free to work totally unrestricted. This obviously means that there is no welfare state what so ever or any form of benefits, so unemployed workers had literally no support. Additionally, the fact that people were forbidden to leave Rapture was a fundamental reason as to why civil unrest was inevitable. So picture this, you are dirt poor, living in overcrowded accommodation, unemployed, receiving literally zero help from a government, and on top of all that you cannot even leave. This is the definition of an 'endless cycle of poverty'.
My overall point here is that the very philosophy and ideology that Rapture was founded on and based around was innately flawed. Factors like Adam, Atlas and Ryan just made an already bad situation worse. Rapture was a powder keg waiting to go off long before Atlas was even a guy. If Rapture had been based on a more democratic and state-run society, then there is no reason why it could not have worked. Alas, this was its biggest failing. Pretty much all of Raptures problems can be linked back to the philosophy at its heart. For example, the whole reason that people are allowed to buy a product which gives anybody the ability to shoot fire from their hands, or lift objects with their minds or any of the other abilities plasmids and tonics gave a person, is because there are no regulations in Rapture, meaning people can sell whatever they want to whomever they want, as many times as they want, without any repercussions. There are no regulations in Rapture because Ryan's philosophy stands totally against them. Thus you can see just from this example that the ideology of Rapture screwed it from the start. Regardless however, even without the additional factors that I have mentioned, some kind of workers revolution in Rapture would have been almost a certainty. Thus a civil war was always going to happen.
A forced Utopia is doomed to fail
It always has historically and always will.
Yessir
I´ve always been a fan of Ryan, so I believe that him, Mc Donaugh, Steinman, Cohen, and the developments of the whole society would eventually flourish the city, but I´m against the ADAM and the researchers of Tennenbaum, like the book says, Ryan didn´t help her. But I believe that if ADAM was controlled, it could happen the civil war anyway, you said at 5:40 some interesting reasons because maybe the problem would be political and social, not scientific. Ryan has two major enemies: Frank and Sofia, so maybe the civil war would come eventually, but without splicers, Big Daddies and Little Sisters.
Here’s a 5th option: the surface finds out about Rapture.
Ryan has a war with the surface, and basically you would have the rapture ideas and events be expanded to the surface. Plus there’s a chance that Rapture could be much larger at that point making it easier to come across.
I think that if the civil war never happened, bioshock would like you said be set in either a new setting or during a non civil war Rapture. I think either one is a possibility.
If the Rapture civil war never happened, I think in order for it to succeed the most likely way for it do so would be for Ryan, Fontaine/Atlas, and Lamb to die, loose power, or leave. That way any known possible cause for conflict could be done away with, because I doubt they would work together.
There is also a chance that without the civil war more time for research could be used to develop a cure for the side effects for Adam; that way if a civil war did happen the side effects/aftermath of the war wouldn’t be as bad.
It’s also worth noting that, without a civil war, what would happen to jack, delta, Eleanor, Etc.? How would things have gone differently than we saw them?
Also, if a civil war happened eventually at a later date, how would things like the big sisters affect the war?
It’s an interesting subject.
Thank you for the input
No problem
@@TheBioshockHubsay could you make a video on what would happen if the navy discovered like rapture gets discovered by the crew of a navy submarine during the civil war or before the civil war or after the civil war or after the events of BioShock 1 or after the events of BioShock 2 that would be awesome i wonder what would happen if the navy seal team went into rapture
I think that if there was no civil war , then Rapture could have had just survived another 10 years. The main flaw of this statement is that Ryan would have to deal with Lambs followers and with the plasmid addicts . Naturally , because he absorb Fontaine futuristics , he would have created some groups , mostly the poor , to become rebels . However , not with the same organisation like under Atlas . Ryan could have , in a way , defeated both the radicals and lamb .
Also I noted that you are unfamiliar about the fact that Jack is actually from rapture and he is genetically engineer to have those memories implanted in him and the whole airplane situation is kind of a farce.
'Would you kindly drop a like'
You clever boy
;)
If the Rapture Civil War never happened, Rapture likely still would've fallen after a certain time, but certain things would be different. Jack would be able to endure childhood, and Fontaine eventually would've been caught.
I think that civil war for rapture was inevitable, with the way rapture was structured there is always going to be an economic class disparity in rapture so even though ADAM was the catalyst for the civil war it would have happened even without ADAM.
Two reasons why there's no civil war.
1 - Splicers gone more feral, and starts killing the people who enters the arena.
2 - Mr Ryan and staff got clobbered by Splicers, until Mr Jack come in to survive on own.
It would be an interesting idea of free roaming through the entirety of Rapture if ADAM was never discovered and the civil war never happened. A flourishing Rapture would be nice to enjoy.
Atm using bioshok as the main plot fore a city in my pokemon rom, it takes place before the cival war, but adam is named blood of archieus and gives the player abilatys from pokemon. The main plot revolves around developing blood of archieus
I think this was a very interesting video/topic and I think rapture would flourish as well but what if Fontaine decided to kill Ryan before the war and stuff like that sorry that's a dumb idea but still it's cool
The only way Rapture’s fall could have been avoided is if they massed produced mindless clones to use as something akin to Warhammer40k servitors and replaced the working class. There’s also the issue of the Adam addiction, which could also have been treatable. The ideology that it follows is the literal opposite of the USSR, yet the same thing. Extremely radical capitalism enforced to the point of oblivion. Had Ryan considered that reasonable standards set for the poor might have been a good idea, he would have found the civil crisis less problematic. He should remember in capitalism, you need workers and consumers in the same way you need a heart and stomach. Abuse either, you die.
I actually just made a theory about what happened, and why the citizens of Rapture got mad, hear me out on this! I know my theory isn't the cause, I just like it to make fan theories, anyway my fan theory follows
Rapture, a city underwater, I mean.... How flippin' dope is that? Wouldn't you like t to live there? Only, there are things people might haven't thought about, Rapture looks nice and comfy yes but have you ever thought about the following things?
Never see daylight, never feel a raindrop, never feel the warmth of the sun and never feel a single breeze, never be able to watch the stars at night
That is kinda depressing you know? Since I thought about that, I wouldn't like it at all to live in Rapture, I prefer living in Columbia then, I mean, yes you can fall off to your death, but at least you feel the warmth of the sun and feel the breeze of the wind.
But anyway, The citizens of Rapture could not feel the warmth of the sun, or the breeze of the wind, or rain, and didn't see daylight, and it could be possible that that was he thing that drove them all mad, they lost themselves because of lack of daylight and the sun.
So yeah, even if there wasn't a war, I think people would've driven mad anyway
Also, here's some ideas for a potential Bioshock without the Rapture Civil War.
1. (In a vein similar to Bioshock 2). Sophia Lamb is building resentment of Ryan's Objectivist ideals, so she works to take territory in Rapture. As the citizens are caught in the crosshairs, to avoid eithers dreams from dying.. they form a truce. The former united city of Rapture is now living in a sort of Cold War environment. With Ryan's Rapture and Lambs Delphi Confederacy(she'd need to keep her government on the lighter side in order to be civil with Rapture, not to mention Lamb seemed to want to tend to the surviving citizens of Rapture in a maternal type way, despite her forceful methods in Bioshock 2) in a state of fluctuating peace, you play as citizen of the duel-city states, who has to make his way in that world, and decide who they want to align with. Individualism on one hand, but black market creeping in, Collectivism on the other, but with a motherly presence.
2. Things go mostly as they did in our own Bioshock 1, just before the Civil War with Fontaine. Except in this universe, the public on land make the connections they didn't make in ours, and the US government gets involved, and sends a CIA agent to infiltrate Fontaine's smugglers, to uncover the truth about Rapture. Two endings could happen. The first isn't much different than the original except Jack isn't there, and instead the CIA agent dies. The second one is where he is successful and the US military occupies Rapture and kills Andrew Ryan. Rapture then becomes the US Junta-city state of Neptune.
I know you don’t have that many subs but keep going Man you’re stuffs really good
Going to agree with a lot of people in the comments: civil war is inevitable, with or without ADAM. Having read the novel by John Shirley and taken a few psyche courses, it was a disaster waiting to happen. Which is great, because then it means we can play a game like this, so... yeah. Hell, even before reading the novel, the moment I found out the game's setting is an underwater city, I was like "gonna probably be a lot of cabin-fever lunatics running around"... well, this was true, but I grossly underestimated how much worse it was xD.
You need a few psyche course to figure this out. Simple shit post matter is, you give people magic casting and crime is inevitable. A gun doesn't make you special, but if I could shoot bees and fire from my hands I would be commiting robbery every day...
Great video.
Thank you
There would still be fighting among the poor and rich along side racism in puapers drop. Not a full fledged war but fighting as lamb,fontain,and ryan struggling for power atop people being sent tp persophone creating tension
Well Ryan would have more control if there was no war going on, so Lamb would probably be rotting in a prison cell with no hope of escape in this hypothetical situation.
New to the channel, just found it yesterday out of curiosity. And I've gotta say man, you had me at Would You Kindly
Welcome to the channel my friend :)
I'm not an Objectivist, but I do think Rapture stood a good chance of flourishing. They had the tech (look at Milton Porters work for example. Advanced Lancer Big Daddies, energy weapon development, Synthetic Intelligence.), plus the aid Adam could provide. Rapture was capable of great things. It's three main faults were drug abuse, criminal Syndicates, and Ryan's paranoia. If Ryan had kept a more level head, been more efficient in his efforts to eliminate Fontaine and his Syndicate of junkies and thugs, Rapture probably would've been fine. As a Kritarchist I especially think he should have focused on Fontaine and his criminals. You can heal drug abuse, help those who need aid. But crime.. that's a tougher anchor to break off.
- Also, got to say.. but this is one of your best videos ever!! I'd say it's top 3 for sure.
Rapture would end up being very dictatorial or falling apart. Rapture's biggest enemy is Ryan's ego. Ryan never wants a city made of great people like him; he wants a city where he's a king who sets a fair rule for everyone to play. The Fontaine thing is that. Fontaine found a way outside the system Ryan set up. With the whole city under Ryan's control, no one can compete against him under his own rule, so people who want to move up to Ryan's level have to resort to finding an out-of-the-box idea. Ryan couldn't accept it, but he acknowledged that Fontaine is better than him and ended up stealing Fontaine's business (ironic). I think if Rapture's civil war didn't happen, Ryan would eventually transfer himself into a robot (Mr. House), possibly merge himself with the Thinker, and lay down the rule for everyone to follow after his passing to keep Rapture in paradise, which would ironically turn Rapture into "Only God, Only King." Also, even if Ryan focused on Fontaine, the real problem would still remain, that the poor working class hates living in Rapture since there is no class mobility, and Fontaine uses them to build his army that rivals Ryan's security. Ryan could either force slavery on the poor working class, risk them leaving Rapture, or bite his nail and force his councils and everyone else to create a welfare for their work forces, which would also lead to everyone in the upper class turning against him and forcing Ryan to become a king, despite this. The only path I have seen working is Qatar and the Arab Emirate solution. That Ryan instead forcing all working class members out of Rapture, erasing their memory, replacing them with contract workers he hires from poorer areas on the surface, and once the contract is over, shipping them back and erasing their memory, repeating this process indefinitely. But this would turn Rapture from "no king, no gods, only man" to "only kings and serfs." Still Rapture's biggest enemy is Ryan's ego.
I finally I found it thank you Eric for telling me you made a vid on this allready
the real question is what if there was never any Adam discovered, would it flourish
sure they could sure do know some of war scenario would have happened if Atlas montane restart a civil war and it could be fun to have an open world game.
Like your Bioshock videos! But you should do some videos on the system shock series!?
0:15 ok song bird is booker comstock is booker, booker is booker who else is booker
"He's Squidward, he's Squidward, you're Squidward... I'M SQUIDWARD"
Jokes aside this is the bulk of why I hate Infinite. Multi universe "he was this guy in another universe and also him in another..." Is just a lame cop out and concession to actual quality story writing. Ever back yourself into a plot corner or hole, just teleport out with an alternate dimmension/timeline.
Nice videos. I think a good video idea would be what would happen with the city of rapture? How much years will it holds? How long until the thicker fails or until everything is flooded leaving just but a steel carcass. Sorry if you had a video like that already hehe
Since you said “would you kindly,” I must like the video now
What if jack would have kept rapture but done the good end by not harvesting little sisters. By sending them topside with tenebaum
"Would you kindly drop a like?"
Well, I'm afraid I can't do that, because...
...A MAN CHOOSES, AND A SLAVE OBEYS
I'm kidding, I'll like your video... but not because you told me to -3-
@@TheBioshockHub So you're liking it anyway? That programming is really good
@@anomicsly5854 Thanks for the classified info. Comes in handy.
I think the simple fact of plasmids existing makes war/crime inevitable. It's a shit post, but a gun doesn't make you special. You give me the power to shoot bees and fire from my hands and I'll commit crime every day because I can. I'm basically fucking magical at this point.
Rapture couldn't avoid a Civil War. If the VERY uneven economic system in Rapture didn't change (and Ryan wouldn't let it) the huge inequity (and the abuses inherent with a massive power imbalance) would have caused a Civil War. ADAM had nothing to do with a real cause of the Civil War. As for people leaving Rapture? As long as Ryan is still alive and in power, he won't let them. "You read your residency contract with Ryan Industries? "In perpetuity." We're all buried at sea." sm
It seems like a lot of people are agreeing with me that a Civil War would happen regardless.
Great video, I am wondering what if it would be Bioshock online game released, where people could take part in creation of Rapture from scratch (like Minecraft), taking part in inventions like gathering sea slugs etc, and finally would be choosing part of conflict (Atlas or Andrew Ryan) and to take part in exact war between those two fractions.
Idk man I'd say the main factor behind the Civil War was the mass inequality
i wish rapture was real and nothingf bad happend and i lived there
Basically like IRL, expansion is necessary for nations to exist. Sooo Rapture would have to further expand under the ocean.
If you guys are interested there is actually a novel that was written about how and why rapture was built (it goes into way more detail than the game)
Absolutely. I love the book.
No Atlas No Civil war by the way awezome video.
Thank you Martin
Bioshock: what If...? Edition
Bioshock should have taken place in 1980 instead of 1960. Would have given Rapture more time to exist and develop.
I think this video just described heaven
So another factor that will take part if Rapture did face the Civil War, Jack would actually be the next ruler of Rapture, where Andrew Ryan having instilling all of his ideals and ideology into his son while having issues with his mother because of reasons.
Edit: I meant to did not face the Civil war but you get the context.
So would that mean that Booker never gave away Anna?
Better if Infinite didn't happen.
Basically ryan could of used the surface as reason to fight them . Keep Rapture producing weapons etc. Keep expanding.
First I wanted to say that I’m really glad the Bioshock was there to help you through such a difficult time in your life. Now, I agree that the fall of rapture would of come sooner or later because of human nature. But let’s say that Fontaine had been gunned down which means that Atlas was never there. There’s still Dr. Lamb who’s another huge influence on the citizens of Rapture. Also, the fact that you had so much Adam abuse would make it hard for the city to flourish, specially since there was no police to enforce the law. So that alone would give Rapture a limited time before it started to decline. So in the end it was a Utopia that looked great on paper but completely flawed as soon as you added the human factor
Nice
Rapture could dominate the globe with trade , technology etc. They could develop nuclear weapons and be like north Korea and Switzerland combined. They would colonized the sea floor further and have colonists in different parts of the oceans of the world.
The same could be said for Columbia.
I’m a year late but please do more
If ryan had another ideology and ideals,rapture woyld be other place,I dont know
But the problem that maybe will not be bioshock.so im happy that it happen a civil war
parkside
Rapture would go down. The civil war was a punch to the face, an immidiate KO.
But with how the cities vision was, it would have been a slow decline. The Adam abuse would have slowly gone up instead of instaniously. But why shoudlnt it happen?
I has a bioshock what if or speculation what happens to the world if adam and the tech of rapture gets out like the slugs and everything what would all the countrys do and such.
Songbird booker Dewitt 😳
What if Ryan's boys successfully killed Fontaine?
What about Lamb?
She would be rotting in prison.
I think Rapture would always fall. Andrew Ryan's ideals are inherently flawed and toxic, and the working class forced to live under this corrupt libritarian society would rise up, especially if they had access to plasmids.
If you want to have a shit post answer, the fact that people could get a hold of lighting at their finger tips is reason enough for crime of any sort lmfao. A gun isn't anything special, but if I could shoot fire and bees from my hands I would be commiting robbery evey day.
yeah but you asked what would happen if there was no civil war
that simply doesnt include what would happen if people didnt abuse adam
thats the other way around and you cant just include this because of causality
if there was no civil war people would have abused adam anyway and that would have most likely lead to the downfall of rapture
That's true. I think regardless, Rapture was set up for failure. Whether it was the war, or ADAM usage, or class division, etc.
@@TheBioshockHub
yeah i agree
but maybe it would have worked out over time
but i guess without fountain someone else would have abused the desperation of the lower classes or the civil unrest would have lead to civil war anyway
ryan should have let the people leave rapture at will
but they were poor and trapped
i guess civil war was unavoidable
@@anteeantee8144 Either war, revolution, coup , or something similar.
10th comment