The thing I love about Miyazaki is he really never tells us anything and always under promises and his games always over perform so I am so excited to dive into the DLC.
I think that miyazaki is pretty straightforward with his intentions and doesn't unnecessarily build hype or dance around the bush. For example he flat out confirmed that the dlc will not add another Ending to the game. which must have been a crushing blow to many people. But at least he isn't like "oh I can't say this or that teehee". There hasn't been an instance for me where he said something about the games that I didn't also see reflected when I got to play them eventually.
I can't stop thinking about the fact that Messmer's left eye is damaged and he only uses his right eye just like Melina who's name coincidentally also starts with M.. not to mention she turns into flame in the base game, there has to be a connection there
It also helps that almost all of demigods are twins of some sort (Malenia and Miquella, Morgott and Mogh) so Messmer possibly being Melina's twin isn't far off.
The m name isn't that big of a deal. Half the bosses in the game start with m. all the shardbearers name start with G, R, or M.. almost as if it was written by George R.R. Martin..
I don't think the wickerman actually killed all those corpses it has. It is like a giant walking corpse collector. Reaches down with its arms to pick up the dead giant/dragon/person and throws them into the fires within.
That’s kinda dumb considering the fact that he’s literally a boss. It was a war machine and it was probably fueled by the bodies burning. It has heads attached to its waist as trophies like a warrior would do. It could have definitely killed the corpses and the fact that you have to fight it suggests that it isn’t just “a giant walking around” lol
@@travman1987there were some screenshots of the wickergiant walking among other enemy NPC foot soldiers, so I could see him being something similar to the giant stone golems. Not bosses per se, but probably around the same health pool
It's kinda a moot point tho cause its basically a GUNDAM or a tank lol like if its coming through your house and stepping on all your shit people are going to die and then hell pick up the bodies as he goes to keep himself fueled. Bodies fuel the Erd Tree, bodies fuel the blasphemous blade, bodies/blood/fire are a power source in ER. In Dark Souls everyone is undead and you could argue the same in ER with the rune of death being stolen - Ur body maybe dead or immovable but your stuck there until you get recycled or experience a true death.
I hope this DLC would shed some light on the many unanswered questions on the base game, The Gloam eyed queen, The eclipse ritual, Miquela's plan, these things i am dying to know.
Something else to notice is the not only is the tree not producing or leaking sap at the end of the trailer but also the skies are clear from the veil so maybe by the end you somehow unveil the lands of shadow or completely undue what marika did to these lands
I've been thinking about Messmer's title, "The Impaler." If this is touching on Vlad the Impaler's mythos, another name he had was Dracula, which means Son of Dracul or SON OF THE DRAGON! How much you want to bet that slit yellow eye is not from dragon communion but was inherited from his father? Lansseax turned into a woman to commune with humans and loved Vyke. What if another dragon took human form and fathered Messmer with Marika? Dragons are surprisingly absent from the new trailer too.
Also, Mesmer's name is literally "Mesmer The Impaler" as you can see at the end of the trailer when they show the collector's edition so I'd say he probably did get involved in the war against the giants
Im starting to think that merika was a death bed companion before she became the god we know her as. This would further explain why she messed with the rune of death and the natural order. I think that it is her as a deathbed companion in that portrait in the dlc trailer.
I think the mother Messmer refers to is the formless mother that Mohg worships. Maybe Messmer is the empyrean chosen by the formless mother, which is why he has a throne similar to the other demigods. If the outer god related to the three fingers controls the land between, then maybe the formless mother controls the land of shadows?
"Foul gamers, emboldened by the flame of hype, in search of the DLC." Miyazaki himself confirmed Messmer is a "child of Marika". We must protect the wormy at all costs!
1:22 you missed something important, the shine from his left head, as we know a shine sometimes looks like this (+) like a plus, a simple draw that can artist do to make a shine/shiny thing, so yes it is Miquella symbol rune
Looking at the tree that miquella gestures towards, you can see that the central tree has the whitish fronds on the top of it that almost sprout out of the center. The tree that is wrapping around it does not have the whitish fronds. Do we know where godwyn was murdered? Is it possible that the strangler tree is related to godwyn and thats why miquella went to the shadow lands? Radahn couldn't be slain at the time so miquella knew he needed to go elsewhere. How did he know about the shadow lands? no idea. just a thought. I've also heard some people assume this is where shadow bound beasts came from. But I'm starting to thing the location isn't outright called "The Lands of Shadow". It's probably more like "the lands of shadow" in a general way. On top of that, I think they are called shadowbound because they are always behind you. They were a failsafe to be used against a rebelling Empyrean.
I just shared my opinions on a lot of this in a comment reply on Vaati, but I want to rehash some of it here too! Let's start by proposing someone's theory that Miquella purposefully worked with Ranni to assassinate Godwyn in order to create Deathroot and the Prince of Death, but we wonder why? Well here's now where Messmer comes to mind. Assuming naming conventions still apply, Messmer appears to be a child of Marika/Radagon, even inheriting Radagon's red hair, and his name starts with an M. This aligns with the theories that the smouldering butterflies correlate with Messmer much like Nascent with Miquella and Aeonian with Malenia. Messmer seems very much to be purposely concealed from the public eye. This can be assumed to be due to some sin or blasphemy, be that something in his birth or later actions deemed heretical to the Erdtree. Though hidden away in the Shadow Lands, it can be assumed that Messmer, if a secret triplet of Malenia and Miquella, was born in the Lands Between. In the Haligtree, there are statues of an young adult figure, theorized to be Godwyn, taking care of young Miquella and Malenia. If this is Godwyn, then we know that he sometimes took care of the twins in Marika's place, and with that in mind we can assume that he may even be one of the very few people that even know of Messmer's existence. One farfetched branch of this theory is that Marika, in fact, set the Numen Black Knife Assassins reluctantly on Godwyn to tie up that very loose end so that none remained who knew of or could pursue her forbidden child Messmer. But assuming Miquella and Ranni, instead, were in kahoots behind the Night of Black Knives, then perhaps this is because creating the Prince of Death and Deathroot would allow Godwyn to use Deathroot in order to seek out this hidden land and this lost demigod as well as strangle the Erdtree (if that's what we see as Deathroot wrapped around the Erdtree in the DLC). Perhaps Godwyn shared his knowledge of Messmer with Miquella or someone he wasn't supposed to. Perhaps Miquella caught scent of the blasphemous child through the dreamworld or the Land of Shadows as St. Trina. I want to clarify though that I'm pretty sure Godwyn was murdered in Stormveil acting as lord under the Golden Lineage which is why his body is found there, though buried underneath the Capital. Not entirely 100% positive on that, but I don't think he was murdered in the Land of Shadow if you were trying to posit that theory. And I also want to clarify that I think Miquella sent Malenia after Radahn to end his reign over the stars and make the Eclipse of Sol possible. The other possibilities could be to confirm his alignment with Ranni and uncovering the Dark Moon though she seems alone in that ambition. Perhaps defeating Radahn and unleashing the Meteor Shower rips a hole in the veil that conceals the Land of Shadows, or otherwise interferes in some strange magic or artifact that prevented it from being found? I stick to the eclipse theory, though, as Miquella is heavily related to the whole plot of the eclipse to open the gateway to the soulless demigods and grant Godwyn a true death. I hope the Eclipse is seen to some degree within the DLC whether metaphorically or physically, and some even speculate already that this Land of Shadow to be the forgotten City of the Sun mentioned on a shield carried by skeletons. Sorry for rambling, but I hope this provides some interesting points to consider!
The silver branches remind me of the Age of the Fell Curse ending, in which the entire Erdtree turns silver. Of course, most people don't go for that ending, so they tend to never see the silver Erdtree, lol.
not sure this matters, but the crescent moon 🌙 configuration of the rune (with the upper left open) is the same as moon-phase behind the gobbling-worm enemy
Ok now this may be nothing, but this is also in Messmer staff in the DLC main picture when he sits on the throne The staff is the vertical line on the right, and the snake makes the broken circle
That's how both of the moons in the base game appear as well. (Yes, there are two moons over the Lands Between, and likely not by accident.) Not to say you don't make a good point-I feel there are a number of reasons to believe the Carian royals may have a role in the DLC, possibly including Ranni...
@@yosi572 Something else I always found cool is that the Halo Scythes used by Cleanrot Knights resemble Malenia's Great Rune, but with the blade forming only part of the ring. These scythes can sling golden halos developed by Miquella. Furthermore, Cleanrot Knights possess an ability to summon an array of spears from the ground-remimiscent of an attack Messmer uses in the trailer...
Really think that Messmer and Melina might've actually been Marika's true firstborns but both were erased from history, with Messmer maybe being the reason that she became burnt and bodiless
Tannith birthed this creature through consuming Eiglay & Rykard. The jewelry, the serpent, the red hair. The amalgamation of all powers. The Blasphemous blade was a replicant of what the Erd Tree was already doing. "A serpent never dies."
It's worth noting that the hands of the wicker man look almost exactly like the "hands" that are impaling the dead fire giants in the mountaintops of the giants.
5:36 This enemy is super intresting because it reminds me of a kodama ( like the little white creatures in Hayao miazaki's princess Mononoke ) but longer. If enemy why friend shaped?
At 7:52 there's a crest on the hilt of the spear that impaled the fire giants. It's also on the twinblade the player character uses in the trailer fight with Messmer.
The sap bleeding from the tree looks like it drips directly into the building under it. I wonder if Messmer constricted Miquellas tree with his own and is draining its sap as a power source for something. Also with grafting being such masive part of elden ring i wonder if we will see some tree grafting going on. The 2nd tree may have been grafted onto the 1st.
I think it’s interesting that in the poster of the dlc at the end showing messer on his throne that his snake is in his ear. Could this be hinting that he is being lied to in some way since snakes are considered liars
Messmer's cape symbol has a few interesting details. The one that stood out the most for me was the centerpiece. It is similar to the centerpiece of the Haligtree symbol: the same 8 looped design, only the Haligtree is one that opens up to branches of growth upward, while Messmer's is one of snakes in a closed loop with a downward pointing arrow. A thing I didn't notice until going to the official site was that under the title are the words 'Fall From Grace'. The winged serpents and the biblical implications of that had me thinking about Lucifer/Lightbringer imagery. What if it turns out Miquella is the fallen angel, so to speak having left Grace to go to the 'underworld' to try to defeat Messmer and rule there - helping to heal the world from below in a way that he is powerless to do above? It reminds me of the scenario in For Love of Evil in the Incarnations of Immortality series.
Something I thought you might want to check out for one of your videos is that the ornamentation on the depraved perfumer’s robe has some crazy similarities to Mesmer’s aesthetic. Looks like two red serpents wrapped around a silver spear or tree and the item description for the robe describes it as a curse upon the Erdtree. Really interesting stuff and may have some implications for what his motives will be in the DLC.
The pink butterflies look like the ones by the Elphael Inner Wall site of grace, right before the rot where year have the last interaction with millicent.
For me, I believe that the runes work differently in the Land of Shadow. For example, maybe the rune we see at 2:05 is indeed a sign of Miquella, but it's just different than the one he has in the Lands Between. Because, all the Shadow one is is his one in the Lands Between but with a piece missing, and flipped. Hence the name the "Land of Shadow", it is an incomplete world of the Lands Between.
There is also something i noticed when they showed the part where a Samurai is fighting against a lady dual weilding blades on one of those attacks the lady with dual blades did the samuria did some kind of dodge move or i could be wrong.
I don't know why, but the swirling/coiling tree always looked to me somewhat like a grub, or some sort of a parasite that has its hands on the other tree..
I don't know if somebody mentioned on the comments yet but one thing that cought my attention is the emblem on the preorder box, it has the fire, the snakes, and the other seems like the thorns symbol, in the spell briars of punishment description mentions that is a heretical attack whick impales from below, the impale part united with the fact that everything on messmer's apperarance has a profane vibe makes me wonder if we are going to see more about that magic
If you look closely at the tree side by side it looks as though each shot is from a different side. Like in the first photo, you’re seeing the tree from the back and then on the right photo you’re seeing the tree from the front.
I have a hunch that the rune we see could be tied to the albinaurics. It looks like their rippled crescent axe and halberd and theyre tied to miquella as well
The DLC promo art has Messmer sitting on a throne and one of the snake heads and his staff make the exact same symbol as the golden rune in the trailer.
It's interesting that the guy who pulls the thing out of his skull is part of a cutscene and therfore probably part of some kind a major bossfight. I'm wondering what kind of boss he could be
An interesting note, the eastern wall of leyndell, guarding the path to the forbidden lands, has scorch marks on the outside, and the area is covered in deep ash.
I wonder if that emitted radiance from Miquella in that last scene is from that golden "sap" that's missing from that tree? makes me wonder if that's Miquella's objective (or one of his objectives)? and if we're going to be helping him claim it? so many questions! also, the veil is kind of missing in that last shot! and the tree's canopy is quite grey as well.
I think the baldahin at the top of the tree will somehow come into contact with all the great rune towers. And the place that we will explore will also be between the towers, where now we only have a little bit of the sea
5:36 i speculate that this will work mechanically similar to the spirit calling snail, so hopefully he is harmless if we get close, so long as ypu can avoid its spirit summon 😅
One question I have regarding the line, "touch *THE* withered hand..." involves whether or not Miquella is the one speaking that line because there are so many possible answers. It's said that Miquella has divested from his body in journeying to the Shadow Lands so he may be indifferently referencing his own former body, but that phrasing opens up the possibility that it may not even be Miquella in the cocoon. Or perhaps that someone other than Miquella will guide us INTO the DLC. It's far from a deep observation but it's curious.
I found it interesting that the only place that depict Winged Serpents in Elden Ring is at the Temple of Eiglay, but again not the same as we see in the trailer.
In the shot of the trailer with the new symbol/great rune thingy, it looks like the sap amber stuff from the tree is falling off in the background in a steady stream to the land below. Idk if I’m seeing that right or if that would imply anything just thought it could be cool
Regarding "following in the footsteps of Miquella", in the opening shot with torrent running, you can see what appear to be faint golden footpints on the ground that the player/torrent is following.
Interesting thing i noticed is the guy our character does kung fu against is the same knight we see in the screenshot riding on horseback next to wickerman, but he is in the area with hanged baners on the walls that do not represent sigil seen on the side of his horse in the image. Instead as far as i was able to see through the rough layer of blur its depicting the symbol of messmer
I really think the "sap" are actually spears of light. They look like two spears or stakes that are connecting the two trees. In one angle we get from the trailer it looks like we see the end of one of these trails of "sap", but it comes to a point. It doesn't look like it's dripping. A tree twisting around another one could cause it to choke out and steal nutrients from it, but it can also strengthen any shared points. I think the spears are trying to hold the twisted tree over the other tree at the strongest twisted points, to kill the other tree. I think Mrika stole a part of this other tree and grafted it to the crucible tree, creating the erdtree. Miquella came here to do a similar thing for his Haligtree, but Marika left her firstborn Messmer in the Land of Shadows to stop this from happening. He is the impaler, as in impaling the trees, not just people or enemies. He is trying to kill the tree so Miquella cannot usurp their mother.
Something I noticed while watching the trailer with my mom was that the big hippo enemy sort of look like a mix of a dragon and a bear with a bit of the big caelid dogs. They have big heads and are very mangy like the caelid dogs, but their bodies are hairy like bears and they have both large square teeth and sharp teeth, like how a bear is omnivorous. But it's also gray and it has a big dorsal horn like all non-ancient dragons. Just a bit more bear-dragon speculation. My mom also noticed during the scene with the old man pulling the thing out of his head that it looks sort of like the stems of the crucible that come out of the hippo, and thats all I can imagine it as, it just doesn't look like a sword or a rune, it looks too plant-like.
Sleeeeeeeeeep. ER currently has items that buff you from sleep even though nothing attacks us with sleep as far as I know, and we can craft way more sleep items than we ever use. My guess is that there will be a lot of sleep content. Also, I hope that red dancer is related to the blue dancer charm. Thanks for pointing all this stuff out. I can't wait for the DLC!
small note on the wickerman, it's largely thought to be a creation of Romans/Greeks painting the native Celts in a bad light. not that it would necessarily effect the lore etc.
It was confirmed by Miyazaki that messmer is a child of marika though, which the bigger question is.....why did she put her son here then made everything he is blasphemy in the lands between
One thing i think nobody has talked about is the evergaols and if we will see them in the dlc. I bring this up because that glowy worm guy (i have named him gerald) looks alot like the snake ball things that gather around evergaols. Evergaols occupy the same land they are placed in, but shrouded and invisible to the world; they appear to be guarded by a primitive imitation of the glow worm(s) of the shadowland. My main questions are these: could this new realm basically be a massive god-powered evergaol, and could the knowledge of how to create such a realm have spread to the lands between?
This could be nothing but if you look in the background at the tower when you show what we think is Miquella's rune near the beginning of the video the tower looks like an upright version of it.
Something I noticed when looking at the tree in the trailer, which I specifically noticed at the end with the miquella scene, is that the tree sort of looks like a baby clinging onto someone/something, although this could just be me looking too deeply into it
Miyazaki is very humble and modest. Has a lot of pride but never outwardly expresses that. He’s a perfectionist and visionary. Nothing but admiration and respect 🫡
I haven’t seen anyone mention this but the Painting of the old man with the pregnant woman next to him ( 0:31 )looks a lot like morgott does after we kill him in Leyndell. I’m looking at him right now all shriveled up and his face is strangely similar. The only difference between the two is long and short hair. Maybe it’s just because they both look old af
The Sap isn't the only thing different in that last shot of the tree. The baldachin is gone as well. Our mission may be to kill the Shadow tree to remove the veil, reconnecting the two lands (perhaps not literally or maybe it will just appear in the main map at the end lol).
I have to say, I never thought about it, but Rennalas great rune could well be Miquellas. It looks identical to his twins as phantastically illustrated here and grants rebirth, which fits with his eternal youth curse. It would even explain the fact that Rennalas rebirth is incomplete - it’s not her rune to begin with. And it is said in game that Miquella tossed his great rune aside, which could well mean return it to his father who gave it to his Ex. This might also explain why the metamorphosis in the cocoons never finished for everyone at the Heiligtree, but that would be anticipated by Miquella after tossing the rune aside, so I am not sure on that.
7:09, in the key art, Messmer's spear and his snake are in the shape of the rune everyone is assuming is Miquella's. So, is it really Miquella's? People have also pointed out that Messmer's red flames are accented by a lot of black - 6:49. His name is Messmer the Impaler. Anyone else notice that when you see Marika/Radagon hanging in the Erd Tree, they are impaled by a red & black spear?
I don't see a lot of people mention the red spear thing. Or the fact that Giant's Flame is said to be the only thing that can burn the Erdtree, and the fire giants have all been impaled as well.
one thing to say...Miyazaki is a genius..he uses the outside arts as influence and ideology to his games..Pure genius and makes perfect art with the Souls games and forever has the god tier of creators.
Perhaps Mesmer wasn't erased from history by others, but erased himself in order to bide time. Mesmer is an abbreviated "mesmerize" and snakes have long been associated with charming and hypnosis. I think mind control could be at least a small part of his kit.
Just my opinion but that knight beside the wicker basket giant within the video made me recall the symbol of the Hammer talisman. It must've something to do with that given the mace on that knight's hand as well.
Does anyone noticed that the shield wielded by that horseman with a hammer looks similar to the structure on the monk just below his torso? Maybe they are associated with the same faction....can't wait to explore this brand new world
Has anyone noticed that Miquella breaks the hair color rule? He has never been depicted with red hair despite being Radagon's child. That combined with the posture of the collector's edition statue of Messmer (similar to the cleanrot knights, who all use impaling/thrusting weapons), makes me wonder if the hair color is the small detail Miyazaki said everyone is missing. Maybe Messmer is actually Miquella.
Has anyone noticed that in the shot where Miquella waves his hand at the shadow tree, it looks like 2 people in a loving embrace? Could that symbolize some form of union between the land of shadow and the lands between? Or the union of two factions or people?
I have 3 questions about the dlc 1) will there be any npc quest changes in main game before going to dlc 2) are you going to DLC through varre quest or just the get the secret medallions to go through moghs portal? 3) roughly what level should we go in dlc?
Has anyone talked about how the arm that is coming out of the cacoon is elongated in very much the same way Messmer's arms are elongated as well. Maybe it's not Miquella in the cacoon or maybe it's way to show they're siblings.
The thing I love about Miyazaki is he really never tells us anything and always under promises and his games always over perform so I am so excited to dive into the DLC.
He hasn't said much but he has confirmed Messmer is a "child of Marika".
They're literally opposite of CDPR on 2020
It’s cause they don’t love bomb. It’s all up to our interpretation till it drops
I think that miyazaki is pretty straightforward with his intentions and doesn't unnecessarily build hype or dance around the bush.
For example he flat out confirmed that the dlc will not add another Ending to the game. which must have been a crushing blow to many people. But at least he isn't like "oh I can't say this or that teehee".
There hasn't been an instance for me where he said something about the games that I didn't also see reflected when I got to play them eventually.
@@TheGoodHunterXIII he did say to beat elden ring it would take 30 hours and we all know it took way longer then that
I can't stop thinking about the fact that Messmer's left eye is damaged and he only uses his right eye just like Melina who's name coincidentally also starts with M.. not to mention she turns into flame in the base game, there has to be a connection there
καλη θεωρια
It also helps that almost all of demigods are twins of some sort (Malenia and Miquella, Morgott and Mogh) so Messmer possibly being Melina's twin isn't far off.
Also just like spirit ranni.
Could be a Radagon/Marika type deal with Messmer/Melina
The m name isn't that big of a deal. Half the bosses in the game start with m. all the shardbearers name start with G, R, or M.. almost as if it was written by George R.R. Martin..
a video from Vatti and Ziostorm in the same day, we're eating good today boys
Zio > vat
Mesmer appearance is really like cleanrot knights even the spear and he's stance and tallness
I don't think the wickerman actually killed all those corpses it has. It is like a giant walking corpse collector. Reaches down with its arms to pick up the dead giant/dragon/person and throws them into the fires within.
That’s kinda dumb considering the fact that he’s literally a boss.
It was a war machine and it was probably fueled by the bodies burning.
It has heads attached to its waist as trophies like a warrior would do.
It could have definitely killed the corpses and the fact that you have to fight it suggests that it isn’t just “a giant walking around” lol
He didn't kill the corpses bc corpses are already dead by definition. Unless they were undead or sm.
dramatic chords
@@travman1987there were some screenshots of the wickergiant walking among other enemy NPC foot soldiers, so I could see him being something similar to the giant stone golems. Not bosses per se, but probably around the same health pool
It's kinda a moot point tho cause its basically a GUNDAM or a tank lol like if its coming through your house and stepping on all your shit people are going to die and then hell pick up the bodies as he goes to keep himself fueled. Bodies fuel the Erd Tree, bodies fuel the blasphemous blade, bodies/blood/fire are a power source in ER. In Dark Souls everyone is undead and you could argue the same in ER with the rune of death being stolen - Ur body maybe dead or immovable but your stuck there until you get recycled or experience a true death.
I hope this DLC would shed some light on the many unanswered questions on the base game, The Gloam eyed queen, The eclipse ritual, Miquela's plan, these things i am dying to know.
I keep thinking the gloam eyed queen wasn’t killed but imprisoned in the shadow lands🤷♀️
Gloam eyed queen is Melina, she literally one eye that is gloam like
@@rican_921nahh
Yeah it would make sense for the eclipse ritual to have something to do with it since an eclipse casts a shadow on the world
Also don't forget the mystery surrounding Godwyn & also what happens to Tanith after she got done eating rykard's remains
Something else to notice is the not only is the tree not producing or leaking sap at the end of the trailer but also the skies are clear from the veil so maybe by the end you somehow unveil the lands of shadow or completely undue what marika did to these lands
That Lion Head boss looks like Morgott and Mohg inside a Chinese Dragon Festival costume.
all three wear the same clothing. like same style and color
So its two brothers goofing around and having some fun lol
I've been thinking about Messmer's title, "The Impaler." If this is touching on Vlad the Impaler's mythos, another name he had was Dracula, which means Son of Dracul or SON OF THE DRAGON! How much you want to bet that slit yellow eye is not from dragon communion but was inherited from his father? Lansseax turned into a woman to commune with humans and loved Vyke. What if another dragon took human form and fathered Messmer with Marika? Dragons are surprisingly absent from the new trailer too.
Also, Mesmer's name is literally "Mesmer The Impaler" as you can see at the end of the trailer when they show the collector's edition so I'd say he probably did get involved in the war against the giants
It would be crazy if any notable characters in Elden Ring had been impaled...
Im starting to think that merika was a death bed companion before she became the god we know her as. This would further explain why she messed with the rune of death and the natural order. I think that it is her as a deathbed companion in that portrait in the dlc trailer.
I think the mother Messmer refers to is the formless mother that Mohg worships. Maybe Messmer is the empyrean chosen by the formless mother, which is why he has a throne similar to the other demigods. If the outer god related to the three fingers controls the land between, then maybe the formless mother controls the land of shadows?
"Foul gamers, emboldened by the flame of hype, in search of the DLC."
Miyazaki himself confirmed Messmer is a "child of Marika".
We must protect the wormy at all costs!
🗿
1:22 you missed something important, the shine from his left head, as we know a shine sometimes looks like this (+) like a plus, a simple draw that can artist do to make a shine/shiny thing, so yes it is Miquella symbol rune
Looking at the tree that miquella gestures towards, you can see that the central tree has the whitish fronds on the top of it that almost sprout out of the center. The tree that is wrapping around it does not have the whitish fronds.
Do we know where godwyn was murdered? Is it possible that the strangler tree is related to godwyn and thats why miquella went to the shadow lands? Radahn couldn't be slain at the time so miquella knew he needed to go elsewhere.
How did he know about the shadow lands? no idea. just a thought.
I've also heard some people assume this is where shadow bound beasts came from. But I'm starting to thing the location isn't outright called "The Lands of Shadow". It's probably more like "the lands of shadow" in a general way. On top of that, I think they are called shadowbound because they are always behind you. They were a failsafe to be used against a rebelling Empyrean.
I just shared my opinions on a lot of this in a comment reply on Vaati, but I want to rehash some of it here too!
Let's start by proposing someone's theory that Miquella purposefully worked with Ranni to assassinate Godwyn in order to create Deathroot and the Prince of Death, but we wonder why? Well here's now where Messmer comes to mind. Assuming naming conventions still apply, Messmer appears to be a child of Marika/Radagon, even inheriting Radagon's red hair, and his name starts with an M. This aligns with the theories that the smouldering butterflies correlate with Messmer much like Nascent with Miquella and Aeonian with Malenia. Messmer seems very much to be purposely concealed from the public eye. This can be assumed to be due to some sin or blasphemy, be that something in his birth or later actions deemed heretical to the Erdtree. Though hidden away in the Shadow Lands, it can be assumed that Messmer, if a secret triplet of Malenia and Miquella, was born in the Lands Between. In the Haligtree, there are statues of an young adult figure, theorized to be Godwyn, taking care of young Miquella and Malenia. If this is Godwyn, then we know that he sometimes took care of the twins in Marika's place, and with that in mind we can assume that he may even be one of the very few people that even know of Messmer's existence. One farfetched branch of this theory is that Marika, in fact, set the Numen Black Knife Assassins reluctantly on Godwyn to tie up that very loose end so that none remained who knew of or could pursue her forbidden child Messmer. But assuming Miquella and Ranni, instead, were in kahoots behind the Night of Black Knives, then perhaps this is because creating the Prince of Death and Deathroot would allow Godwyn to use Deathroot in order to seek out this hidden land and this lost demigod as well as strangle the Erdtree (if that's what we see as Deathroot wrapped around the Erdtree in the DLC). Perhaps Godwyn shared his knowledge of Messmer with Miquella or someone he wasn't supposed to. Perhaps Miquella caught scent of the blasphemous child through the dreamworld or the Land of Shadows as St. Trina.
I want to clarify though that I'm pretty sure Godwyn was murdered in Stormveil acting as lord under the Golden Lineage which is why his body is found there, though buried underneath the Capital. Not entirely 100% positive on that, but I don't think he was murdered in the Land of Shadow if you were trying to posit that theory. And I also want to clarify that I think Miquella sent Malenia after Radahn to end his reign over the stars and make the Eclipse of Sol possible. The other possibilities could be to confirm his alignment with Ranni and uncovering the Dark Moon though she seems alone in that ambition. Perhaps defeating Radahn and unleashing the Meteor Shower rips a hole in the veil that conceals the Land of Shadows, or otherwise interferes in some strange magic or artifact that prevented it from being found? I stick to the eclipse theory, though, as Miquella is heavily related to the whole plot of the eclipse to open the gateway to the soulless demigods and grant Godwyn a true death. I hope the Eclipse is seen to some degree within the DLC whether metaphorically or physically, and some even speculate already that this Land of Shadow to be the forgotten City of the Sun mentioned on a shield carried by skeletons.
Sorry for rambling, but I hope this provides some interesting points to consider!
The silver branches remind me of the Age of the Fell Curse ending, in which the entire Erdtree turns silver. Of course, most people don't go for that ending, so they tend to never see the silver Erdtree, lol.
So excited for Dark Souls 2 2: 2!
Why like your own comment?
not sure this matters, but the crescent moon 🌙 configuration of the rune (with the upper left open) is the same as moon-phase behind the gobbling-worm enemy
yes! thank you for noticing the purple glintstone in the lanterns (sort of a parallel to the red glintstone lamps & braziers in Volcano Manor)!
Ok now this may be nothing, but this is also in Messmer staff in the DLC main picture when he sits on the throne
The staff is the vertical line on the right, and the snake makes the broken circle
That's how both of the moons in the base game appear as well. (Yes, there are two moons over the Lands Between, and likely not by accident.)
Not to say you don't make a good point-I feel there are a number of reasons to believe the Carian royals may have a role in the DLC, possibly including Ranni...
@@yosi572 Something else I always found cool is that the Halo Scythes used by Cleanrot Knights resemble Malenia's Great Rune, but with the blade forming only part of the ring. These scythes can sling golden halos developed by Miquella.
Furthermore, Cleanrot Knights possess an ability to summon an array of spears from the ground-remimiscent of an attack Messmer uses in the trailer...
Messmer is a child of Marika. Definitely a Demi god.
Yes literally confirmed by Miyazaki
Really think that Messmer and Melina might've actually been Marika's true firstborns but both were erased from history, with Messmer maybe being the reason that she became burnt and bodiless
Love your channel man, keep making good content 🙌
Tannith birthed this creature through consuming Eiglay & Rykard. The jewelry, the serpent, the red hair. The amalgamation of all powers. The Blasphemous blade was a replicant of what the Erd Tree was already doing. "A serpent never dies."
That rune that the knight is inspecting looks a lot like the pose of Messmer sitting in the throne (the snake coiled next to his spear)
I noticed this same thing!
It also looks a lot like the pre-order gesture "Ring of Miquella"... Just saying.
The third great hollowing begins 💀
great? 4 months is nothing man, we can wait.
Nah it's 4 months, we already waited 2 years
The fact we already know when it coming out, its not a hollowing no more
This is far from being a hollowing, the fact that we got a trailer + release date means that the hollowing ended
@@HeevaEgoexactly
also the rune at the beginning has a resemblance to the ripple crescent halberd which could also have some meaning behind it
The prisoner being the one to show the gesture is like concrete linkage between Miquella and Griffith to me.
amazing work from you and the other creators, hours of discussions found in 3 mins video.
0:54 that helm is almost identical to the Drangleic helm Drummond gives you. Even the weird can opener looking thing on top
At the end of the trailer, the tree is also missing the veil.
the hand is pulling the veil somehow
It's worth noting that the hands of the wicker man look almost exactly like the "hands" that are impaling the dead fire giants in the mountaintops of the giants.
5:36 This enemy is super intresting because it reminds me of a kodama ( like the little white creatures in Hayao miazaki's princess Mononoke ) but longer. If enemy why friend shaped?
💯 0
So hyped about the DLC, I need answers!!
At 7:52 there's a crest on the hilt of the spear that impaled the fire giants. It's also on the twinblade the player character uses in the trailer fight with Messmer.
The sap bleeding from the tree looks like it drips directly into the building under it. I wonder if Messmer constricted Miquellas tree with his own and is draining its sap as a power source for something.
Also with grafting being such masive part of elden ring i wonder if we will see some tree grafting going on. The 2nd tree may have been grafted onto the 1st.
Amazing lore vid so many questions yet to be answered your speculation really gets one thinking
the guy with the spike in him
the spike kinda looks like the emblem the knights have
It’s still a mystery to me how they released the trailer a few before before the anniversary instead of the actual day itself.
They do what they want, that's why.
Troll
I think it’s interesting that in the poster of the dlc at the end showing messer on his throne that his snake is in his ear. Could this be hinting that he is being lied to in some way since snakes are considered liars
Messmer's cape symbol has a few interesting details. The one that stood out the most for me was the centerpiece. It is similar to the centerpiece of the Haligtree symbol: the same 8 looped design, only the Haligtree is one that opens up to branches of growth upward, while Messmer's is one of snakes in a closed loop with a downward pointing arrow. A thing I didn't notice until going to the official site was that under the title are the words 'Fall From Grace'. The winged serpents and the biblical implications of that had me thinking about Lucifer/Lightbringer imagery. What if it turns out Miquella is the fallen angel, so to speak having left Grace to go to the 'underworld' to try to defeat Messmer and rule there - helping to heal the world from below in a way that he is powerless to do above? It reminds me of the scenario in For Love of Evil in the Incarnations of Immortality series.
Something I thought you might want to check out for one of your videos is that the ornamentation on the depraved perfumer’s robe has some crazy similarities to Mesmer’s aesthetic. Looks like two red serpents wrapped around a silver spear or tree and the item description for the robe describes it as a curse upon the Erdtree. Really interesting stuff and may have some implications for what his motives will be in the DLC.
The pink butterflies look like the ones by the Elphael Inner Wall site of grace, right before the rot where year have the last interaction with millicent.
For me, I believe that the runes work differently in the Land of Shadow. For example, maybe the rune we see at 2:05 is indeed a sign of Miquella, but it's just different than the one he has in the Lands Between. Because, all the Shadow one is is his one in the Lands Between but with a piece missing, and flipped. Hence the name the "Land of Shadow", it is an incomplete world of the Lands Between.
Bonus emote only worth it if we can shoot through the circle
There is also something i noticed when they showed the part where a Samurai is fighting against a lady dual weilding blades on one of those attacks the lady with dual blades did the samuria did some kind of dodge move or i could be wrong.
I don't know why, but the swirling/coiling tree always looked to me somewhat like a grub, or some sort of a parasite that has its hands on the other tree..
There are trees in real life that do this called strangler figs. They steal the sunlight and nutrients from the "host" tree and kill them.
I don't know if somebody mentioned on the comments yet but one thing that cought my attention is the emblem on the preorder box, it has the fire, the snakes, and the other seems like the thorns symbol, in the spell briars of punishment description mentions that is a heretical attack whick impales from below, the impale part united with the fact that everything on messmer's apperarance has a profane vibe makes me wonder if we are going to see more about that magic
i might just be crazy, but at 7:10 the shape made with the staff and the snake looks like a similar shape to the rune shown earlier
100% intentional
And the "Miquella's Ring" pre-order gesture.
Also re the tree at the end, as well has having no sap. 1. the canopy is grey instead of golden, could be burnt? 2. there's no veil either.
If you look closely at the tree side by side it looks as though each shot is from a different side. Like in the first photo, you’re seeing the tree from the back and then on the right photo you’re seeing the tree from the front.
I have a hunch that the rune we see could be tied to the albinaurics. It looks like their rippled crescent axe and halberd and theyre tied to miquella as well
The DLC promo art has Messmer sitting on a throne and one of the snake heads and his staff make the exact same symbol as the golden rune in the trailer.
2:35 Isn't that stuff they're wearing very similar to what the singing bats wear?
1:11 Also, look at Messmer's staff and the way the snake is coiled around it.
thank you ziostorm for the great videos, always come to this channel for updates and lore
It's interesting that the guy who pulls the thing out of his skull is part of a cutscene and therfore probably part of some kind a major bossfight. I'm wondering what kind of boss he could be
I think after he rips his head/spine out some other entity will use him as a weapon, similar to the Elden Beast and Radagon
An interesting note, the eastern wall of leyndell, guarding the path to the forbidden lands, has scorch marks on the outside, and the area is covered in deep ash.
We still have some empyreans shadows that haven’t showed up in the game hope they do in the DLC
I wonder if that emitted radiance from Miquella in that last scene is from that golden "sap" that's missing from that tree? makes me wonder if that's Miquella's objective (or one of his objectives)? and if we're going to be helping him claim it? so many questions! also, the veil is kind of missing in that last shot! and the tree's canopy is quite grey as well.
The symbol in the horse picture with the Wickman has the same shape as in the old man who pull it
I think the baldahin at the top of the tree will somehow come into contact with all the great rune towers. And the place that we will explore will also be between the towers, where now we only have a little bit of the sea
Zio gets me so stoked...not that I needed anything more to be stoked on.
The handle on the spears summoned by Mesmers attack look a lot like the snake people in Volcano Manor, like Rya. Perhaps a connection there.
5:36 i speculate that this will work mechanically similar to the spirit calling snail, so hopefully he is harmless if we get close, so long as ypu can avoid its spirit summon 😅
One question I have regarding the line, "touch *THE* withered hand..." involves whether or not Miquella is the one speaking that line because there are so many possible answers. It's said that Miquella has divested from his body in journeying to the Shadow Lands so he may be indifferently referencing his own former body, but that phrasing opens up the possibility that it may not even be Miquella in the cocoon. Or perhaps that someone other than Miquella will guide us INTO the DLC. It's far from a deep observation but it's curious.
I found it interesting that the only place that depict Winged Serpents in Elden Ring is at the Temple of Eiglay, but again not the same as we see in the trailer.
In the shot of the trailer with the new symbol/great rune thingy, it looks like the sap amber stuff from the tree is falling off in the background in a steady stream to the land below. Idk if I’m seeing that right or if that would imply anything just thought it could be cool
I just saw that’s it’s in another image too on the PlayStation store and it looks as if it’s pouring into a temple or structure of some sort
Regarding "following in the footsteps of Miquella", in the opening shot with torrent running, you can see what appear to be faint golden footpints on the ground that the player/torrent is following.
Interesting thing i noticed is the guy our character does kung fu against is the same knight we see in the screenshot riding on horseback next to wickerman, but he is in the area with hanged baners on the walls that do not represent sigil seen on the side of his horse in the image. Instead as far as i was able to see through the rough layer of blur its depicting the symbol of messmer
I really think the "sap" are actually spears of light. They look like two spears or stakes that are connecting the two trees. In one angle we get from the trailer it looks like we see the end of one of these trails of "sap", but it comes to a point. It doesn't look like it's dripping. A tree twisting around another one could cause it to choke out and steal nutrients from it, but it can also strengthen any shared points. I think the spears are trying to hold the twisted tree over the other tree at the strongest twisted points, to kill the other tree. I think Mrika stole a part of this other tree and grafted it to the crucible tree, creating the erdtree. Miquella came here to do a similar thing for his Haligtree, but Marika left her firstborn Messmer in the Land of Shadows to stop this from happening. He is the impaler, as in impaling the trees, not just people or enemies. He is trying to kill the tree so Miquella cannot usurp their mother.
Will any npc quest change in main game? And is it best going to moghs through varre or the the portal in the snow field?
Something I noticed while watching the trailer with my mom was that the big hippo enemy sort of look like a mix of a dragon and a bear with a bit of the big caelid dogs. They have big heads and are very mangy like the caelid dogs, but their bodies are hairy like bears and they have both large square teeth and sharp teeth, like how a bear is omnivorous. But it's also gray and it has a big dorsal horn like all non-ancient dragons. Just a bit more bear-dragon speculation.
My mom also noticed during the scene with the old man pulling the thing out of his head that it looks sort of like the stems of the crucible that come out of the hippo, and thats all I can imagine it as, it just doesn't look like a sword or a rune, it looks too plant-like.
Sleeeeeeeeeep. ER currently has items that buff you from sleep even though nothing attacks us with sleep as far as I know, and we can craft way more sleep items than we ever use. My guess is that there will be a lot of sleep content.
Also, I hope that red dancer is related to the blue dancer charm.
Thanks for pointing all this stuff out. I can't wait for the DLC!
Assuming this is miquella’s, is it coincidence that the great runes associated with the 3 empyreans look very similar?
small note on the wickerman, it's largely thought to be a creation of Romans/Greeks painting the native Celts in a bad light. not that it would necessarily effect the lore etc.
It was confirmed by Miyazaki that messmer is a child of marika though, which the bigger question is.....why did she put her son here then made everything he is blasphemy in the lands between
the shadow erdtree is in the shape of a hand (in a pose grasping or if it were holding a platter on its fingers)
One thing i think nobody has talked about is the evergaols and if we will see them in the dlc. I bring this up because that glowy worm guy (i have named him gerald) looks alot like the snake ball things that gather around evergaols. Evergaols occupy the same land they are placed in, but shrouded and invisible to the world; they appear to be guarded by a primitive imitation of the glow worm(s) of the shadowland. My main questions are these: could this new realm basically be a massive god-powered evergaol, and could the knowledge of how to create such a realm have spread to the lands between?
This could be nothing but if you look in the background at the tower when you show what we think is Miquella's rune near the beginning of the video the tower looks like an upright version of it.
Something I noticed when looking at the tree in the trailer, which I specifically noticed at the end with the miquella scene, is that the tree sort of looks like a baby clinging onto someone/something, although this could just be me looking too deeply into it
Miyazaki is very humble and modest. Has a lot of pride but never outwardly expresses that. He’s a perfectionist and visionary. Nothing but admiration and respect 🫡
The very top of the shadow tree looks different in that final shot, with brighter branches
I haven’t seen anyone mention this but the Painting of the old man with the pregnant woman next to him ( 0:31 )looks a lot like morgott does after we kill him in Leyndell. I’m looking at him right now all shriveled up and his face is strangely similar. The only difference between the two is long and short hair. Maybe it’s just because they both look old af
The Sap isn't the only thing different in that last shot of the tree. The baldachin is gone as well. Our mission may be to kill the Shadow tree to remove the veil, reconnecting the two lands (perhaps not literally or maybe it will just appear in the main map at the end lol).
I have to say, I never thought about it, but Rennalas great rune could well be Miquellas.
It looks identical to his twins as phantastically illustrated here and grants rebirth, which fits with his eternal youth curse. It would even explain the fact that Rennalas rebirth is incomplete - it’s not her rune to begin with. And it is said in game that Miquella tossed his great rune aside, which could well mean return it to his father who gave it to his Ex. This might also explain why the metamorphosis in the cocoons never finished for everyone at the Heiligtree, but that would be anticipated by Miquella after tossing the rune aside, so I am not sure on that.
My guess is Messemer is the reason the Erdtree is a phantom tree because he burned it down. That would also be the reason Lyndell is covered in ash
7:09, in the key art, Messmer's spear and his snake are in the shape of the rune everyone is assuming is Miquella's. So, is it really Miquella's?
People have also pointed out that Messmer's red flames are accented by a lot of black - 6:49. His name is Messmer the Impaler. Anyone else notice that when you see Marika/Radagon hanging in the Erd Tree, they are impaled by a red & black spear?
I don't see a lot of people mention the red spear thing. Or the fact that Giant's Flame is said to be the only thing that can burn the Erdtree, and the fire giants have all been impaled as well.
one thing to say...Miyazaki is a genius..he uses the outside arts as influence and ideology to his games..Pure genius and makes perfect art with the Souls games and forever has the god tier of creators.
Perhaps Mesmer wasn't erased from history by others, but erased himself in order to bide time. Mesmer is an abbreviated "mesmerize" and snakes have long been associated with charming and hypnosis. I think mind control could be at least a small part of his kit.
Just my opinion but that knight beside the wicker basket giant within the video made me recall the symbol of the Hammer talisman. It must've something to do with that given the mace on that knight's hand as well.
Does anyone noticed that the shield wielded by that horseman with a hammer looks similar to the structure on the monk just below his torso? Maybe they are associated with the same faction....can't wait to explore this brand new world
Im actually really curious on how weapon scaling would work with the sekiro level system
Presumably, there would be no weapon scaling in the DLC.
You should be expected to have Max level gear in a Fromsoft DLC
I think it will work on similar principle to how Vendrick and Giant's Souls worked in DS2.
Where are these images in the website???
I really love seeing the Souls lore channels back in full swing. It's been nothing but great content for the last 3 days.
Look at the cover art and how tye snake and Messmers weapon make the symbol of a great rune.
9:03 Veil on the right is missing on the left erdtree
Has anyone noticed that Miquella breaks the hair color rule? He has never been depicted with red hair despite being Radagon's child. That combined with the posture of the collector's edition statue of Messmer (similar to the cleanrot knights, who all use impaling/thrusting weapons), makes me wonder if the hair color is the small detail Miyazaki said everyone is missing. Maybe Messmer is actually Miquella.
One things for sure, Miyazaki we wouldst thou lordship sanction
Has anyone noticed that in the shot where Miquella waves his hand at the shadow tree, it looks like 2 people in a loving embrace? Could that symbolize some form of union between the land of shadow and the lands between? Or the union of two factions or people?
I have 3 questions about the dlc
1) will there be any npc quest changes in main game before going to dlc
2) are you going to DLC through varre quest or just the get the secret medallions to go through moghs portal?
3) roughly what level should we go in dlc?
There’s a scene that shows a tower full of pots,I’m willing to bet that’s how they load bodies into the “Wickerman”
Has anyone talked about how the arm that is coming out of the cacoon is elongated in very much the same way Messmer's arms are elongated as well. Maybe it's not Miquella in the cacoon or maybe it's way to show they're siblings.