@@MrVictor1227 Man fuck the Golden Order. Embrace the Loathsome Dungeater. Let the fallen leaves tell the story of the curse of the Loathsome Dungeater🗣️🗣️🗣️💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥🔥🔛🔛🔛🔝🔝🔝🤫🤫🤫🧏♂️🧏♂️🧏♂️
I believe Messmer is the one who stole the flame of ruin from the giants, reminding everyone of the giants' bodies impaled on the mountaintops with thorn spears. Also, Messmer could be the Blood Star that thorn sorcerers saw and are searching for (which also, I've been seeing, it is related to the formless mother and that could be the reason behind the entrance being on Mogh's Castle).
You may be right about the blood star. But there's an inconsistency about the giant thing. Since Messmer has red hair and a name that starts with M like the twins Miquella and Malenia this hints at Messmer being a child of Marika and Radagon. If that's the case then he couldn't have been the one to kill all the giants since Marika's war against them predates her union with Radagon, who's red hair is a symbols of the giant's curse that was given to Marika after her genocide of the giants.
The flame is the blood star, thorn sorcerers are blind and can only see the blood star. We see fire monks escort them to near the flame where we can see them stare at the flame/star.
I've been thinking that the thorn sorcerors are likely connected here to the gigantic wicker man we've seen, and would explain their connection to the flame of ruin (with its huge prelate-like bowl). That they continue to wander the land spreading it feels like an echo of the things from a prior age now sealed in shadow. Messmer seems to bind together all of the flames of blasphemy that sought to burn the tree.
The ancient serpent deity is the one rykard likes also there’s a few weapons that’ll reference it , hence why volcano manor is on mount gelmir rykard followed the same religion
@@TheTromaster I forgot where I read this, but I think it’s stated that Miquella discarded his flesh and went to the shadow realm in a similar manner as Ranni inhabiting a doll that resembles Renna. The lanky arm is what I assume to be his discarded flesh, and likely not out of resentment towards Mohg, but the fact that it’s literally a corpse is why he was unresponsive.
@Wyrdist He is literally Miquella's antithesis. Miquella is associated with sleep, purity (unalloyed), femininity and has a very angelic appearance. Mesmerizing is another word for hypnotizing (aka forced "sleep" as opposed to a natural and peaceful state). Messmer is obviously physically imposing and basically the devil (snakes, fire, serpent eyes, dragons). I believe we could have something of a Marika/Radagon situation going on here. The symbolism in their duality is just too striking to me. I believe he is inspired by Jungian psychology and something of a shadow self of Miquella, hence Shadow of the Erdtree.
I think Messmer is thematically the opposite of Godwyn. If Godwyn is the perfect demigod-prince loved by everyone then Messmer was such a crazy and destructive guy that Marika locked him up in an entirely different land to keep him the f away from everyone.
But it’s like no one knows of him. It’s odd because he’s mostly likely a child of radagon meaning he’s most likely younger than other demigods so why banish him to the land of shadows, or maybe she tasked him there instead.
@@teekay851 Compared to the other Demi-Gods, Godwyn was practically universally loved and was the only Demi-God to actually unite major factions under the Golden Order without mass slaughter as the main tool. This made him the perfect target for those that hated the Golden Order, which leads to his death and our Tarnished Journey. From the lore we have, he wasn't inherently malicious.
@@agm5424 funny enough pretty much everyone loves Messmer, so much they abandoned their lives in the lands between to become his servants like Renalla's younger sister, commander Gaius and children of noble houses.
I am still blown away by the trailer, the amount of new content, new formidable bosses, weapons, it’s just pure artistry, Elden Ring is my favorite game of all time, and this DLC will elevate it to another level, looks to be FROM’s best DLC ever, which is an order so tall I’ll be amazed if they achieved it, I am so grateful for this DLC, really! “Mother, wouldst thou truly lordship sanction, in one so bereft of light?” Oh so good!!
Me too, friend. Very grateful to be a part of this journey with all you fellow tarnished!!! If you asked me before Elden Ring came out what my favorite was, it would have been a game I haven't even played in years...Can't wait!
Miyazaki said, in his interview, that Messmer and the rest of the DLC story was already written from Martin together with the base game story-world as one whole part. They decided later, to separate it like that into base game and dlc. Very interesting to think about. It is all going to be more connected than it may seem at first, its not really a "different" story
Messmer has serpents (a blasphemous enemy to the Erdtree), thorns (used by sinners, enemies to the Erdtree), bloodflame (symbol of the formless mother (enemy to the Erdtree)), dragon communion eyes (dragons are enemies to the Erdtree) and red hair of the giants (enemy to the Erdtree). He even shares skin color with the godskins (enemies to the Erdtree. All he needs are Omen horns, Albinauric legs and Misbegotten's Boris Johnson haircut to cover all groups the Erdtree/Golden Order hates. The NPC saying "O Marika. He is your unwanted child." outside the Impaler's Catacomb supports his mother being Marika. It's puzzling why Godwyn (the only known dead child of Marika) would be unwanted and what it has to do with an "impaler", so another child (Messmer) makes sense. Maybe he's Godwyn's twin? Or Miquella, Melania and Messmer are triplets? All I know is that it's badass for him to have been planned from the start.
The impaler catacomb is red herring look at the sainted hero tomb. In it wecan see Rosus cast a light that removes the shadow of the enemies in the tomb. This allows them to be vulnerable to attack and we even see a gladiator in shadow form. The gladiators armor closely resembles messmer armor, snakes on both their helmets is an obvious similarity.
Marika shattered the Elden Ring, and Radagon worked to fix it, the theory is that Radagon's existence was to oppose Marika's rebellious nature towards the greater will which is a pretty good theory, and another point to make is the idea that Messmer was another empyrean who was shunned to the land of shadows after his blasphemous and sinful acts against the Golden Order@@DarksideGmss0513
@@DarksideGmss0513 He wasn't an enemy no but he himself didn't like his red hair that was so connected to the giants. Melania and Radahn aren't stated to be enemies to the Erdtree, but still have Radagon's red hair. And in the end he was sort of an enemy to what Marika wanted to do with the Elden ring
Wow I can’t believe I missed the detail with the impaled giants! Great video. I wonder if the “snakes” (plural) are instead a two-headed snake. There’s a lot of obscure symbolism and interpretation around a double-ended snake and it could be something worth exploring
I have a pretty big theory. In the beginning of the game you see a painting of Godfrey in the crucifixion pose. With a big impalement in his chest/stomach. Messmer says in the trailer that “those stripped of the grace of gold” he would kill them. When Queen Marika stripped their grace. She sent Godfrey and his army to the badlands. I believe that Messer was her secret assassin. Once they were stripped of their grace, Messmer killed Godfrey and his army. Godfrey was described as the strongest man to have ever walked the lands between. So if he was KILLED.. who killed the strongest man to ever live? Why did we not hear about it? I believe that it was the perfect setup for Messer. The reason that we never heard of him was because anyone who was stripped of grace and left the lands between. Met their end by Messmers flame. What do you think about this?
In addition, The Golden order banned fire magic while they were in power. Hence why Marika send her army to kill the giants so she wouldn’t have to worry about the giants fire god. What if Messmer became closer to god hood than any of the other Demi gods? What if at first he was just the impaler, then he developed a mix with of fire/destined death magic. Then he was sent away? I haven’t thought about this second one crazy in-depth but I would love to hear other peoples theories or comments about mine (:
@@swordam1063 well I thought that at first as well… but seeing the red “spear” impaling queen Marika inside of the Erdtree. I feel like something happened to them. I feel like Messer has something to do with the true intentions of the shattering.
The veil behind the Erdtree actually looks like the interior of the Queen's Bedchamber. And if you think about it, the tree looks like it's upside-down, with the root system where the canopy should be. I think the shadow realm (maybe the afterlife?) is basically an upside-down version of the Lands Between, and when people die they return to the Erdtree through the roots and are taken back to the land of the living. I also think Messmer is Miquella's male alter, while St Trina (the radiant figure riding Torrent in the original promotional material) is his female alter, just like Marika and Radagon. And Messmer looks a whole lot like Malenia.
miquella is already miquella’s male alter? but the idea of a flipped world is what i’m hoping for too. it’ll be like totk where you have double the map to explore
@@YeetThyBaby true enough. It’s been implied that Marika had children besides the ones we faced in the base game right? Or at least that there were other “lesser” demigods about?
Another thing about that great rune, if you preorder SotE, you get an emote called Ring of Miquella, which compared to that rune, confirms that that rune belongs to Miquella.
I saw the snakes and first thought of him as a disciple of rhykard. But after the confirmation of him being Marikas kid I think he's a sort of loki lucifer like figure who betrayed Marika
Those theories are not mutually exclusive. You see lava and mechanical devices handling lava in the trailer (1:07). Maybe he became friends with Rykard and rebelled as a result. The snake imagery backs this up, too. Alternatively, he's a twisted shadow of Miquella created by Mogh's interference. There are references to blood in the narration, and why is it Miquella who is guiding us?
I think he's the originator of the snake cult stuff. Like the snakes being associated with traitors of the erdtree maybe stsrted with him? I think rhykard was attempting to emulate him by adopting the snake stuff. Either way this stuff is very cool and can't wait to see where it takes us
Messmer is the firstborn of Marika conceived when she was still a human lady of the numen people and married to that guy in the picture, a Numen lord who's Messmer's father. Messmer has the grace of gold in his eyes, which might indicate that Marika received godhood from the Greater Will while pregnant. Messmer uses thorn sorceries and fire while upholding the sigil of the serpent, which suggests he revolted against his mother and the Golden Order and, to counter it, he gathered knowledge of all heretic powers, including giant's flame and thorn sorceries, so he was banished to the Shadow Realm. Basically the "Prodigal Son" and "Satan" tropes in the same character. Also, he may be to the Blood Star what Malenia is to The Rot and Mohg is to the Formless Mother.
There's zero evidence supporting your theory of her having children that aren't from Godfrey or Radagon. If anything, Messmer's red hair is reminiscent of Radagon. Now to go so far as to think there is a third father, who's actually the old dude in the painting who became a horrible skeleton boss... That's ridiculous
I think messmer’s flame is a crucible flame. It’s clearly a flame we’ve never seen before and it has a thorny/vine like growth to it when it’s manifested and if you look close, it looks like it’s golden somewhat. Almost as if the grace of gold has been super heated in a kiln of some kind. Or, you know, a crucible perhaps.
my theory is that mesmer is the unwanted child of Queen Marika and in the trailer we see a rune that seems to look like the rune of the unborn. this rune is called the “Rune of the Unwanted” i think we will use this rune combined with the rune of the unborn to attach it to the eldin ring and then miquela will be reborn. and that will be our new ending i also have a bunch of theory’s i would gladly explain if anyone wants and it explains how marika gotten to the lands between and also how i believe farum azula was originally in the lands of shadow but was transported to the lands between bringing marika with it
I bet the Great Rune looking thing that we see sticking out of the ground (7:28) is going to be the Shadow Realm version of Site of Grace. We know that the grace of the Erdtree is not present in this realm so there has to be an alternative, and Miyazaki said we will follow Miquela's footsteps.
Between the giant being impaled by spears similar to his and the voice saying "those bereft of grace shall find death in messmers flame" could it be possible that he was a sort of executioner for the golden order?
There's an inconsistency about the giant thing. Since Messmer has red hair and a name that starts with M like the twins Miquella and Malenia this hints at Messmer being a child of Marika and Radagon. If that's proven to be the case then he couldn't have been the one to kill all the giants since Marika's war against them predates her union with Radagon, who's red hair is a symbol of the giant's curse that was given to Marika after her genocide of the giants.
I agree, like others mentioned before that Messmer could be the forgotten son of Marika and Radagon. Adding to his whole snake aesthetics, I wanna point out that Miquella's supposed "cocoon", could also be interpreted looking like a hatched snake egg - so one could argue that Mohg may have not stolen and fed Miquella but Messmer (as others also pointed out), which no one knew about. This of course would open up speculation, how and why Miquella went to the Land of Shadows.
But I could be Messmer and we have to take few steps back when it comes to Melina. Maybe it represents them both. He was the fire starter and she was lit up to burn the tree for the first time. He also have one eye closed.
@@yuomovaeh3028I think Melina is one of those characters that we know the least of. She might as well be in shadow land when she is not in the lands between.
He’s Miquella’s Radagon. It could be very clear. Trailer opens up on Miquellas hand, Messmer is first introduced by his hand, the trailer ends with Miquellas extended hand. That’s all I need.
Yeah it was pretty clear to me it’s Miquella. The red hair and it’s the same frame for Miquellas hand in Mohg’s palace vs his reveal. I didn’t think it would even be a debate who it is
Look up the lore of the Blood Star. I’m p sure that Messmer is the source of thorn sorceries, being that sinners who lost their eyesight became able to see him. He seems to have elements of multiple enemies of the Erdtree: snakes, dragons, possibly giants. It is possible that by killing Marika’s enemies, he becomes corrupted by them himself, and that is why he must stay in the realm of shadow. I actually think Messmer is somewhat of a red herring. I think his lineage and purpose will be easy to figure out. The big reveals I think will have to do with the man and woman in the portrait. The man seems to be another boss at some point. Maybe this is the explanation for why Marika removed Destined Death from the Elden Ring.
I been trying to find hints and connections to Messmer. I been reading a lot of item descriptions and here are my conclusions. My big take away is that he was likely a dragon hunter during the time of the crucible. His pet snake also partook in eating dragons and might be the reason it had wings. At some point he lost an eye and he to saw the blood star (Like Mogh). The Blood star is likely to be the flame inside the caldron the Fire giant protects. He eventually reached the flame and communicated with the Formless mother. One important detail about communing with the formless mother is that the worshipper need to blind and punish themselves. The thorn sorcerers impale themselves, Mogh impales the formless mother and his eye has been impaled by his horn, Messmer is called the impaler. He was eventually killed or sealed away for blasphemy, possibly burning Erdtree the first time (tarnished archeologist pointed out that the tree was likely burned once and it is likely why we need grace to see the Erdtree). After his defeat the gladiators were likely dressed to look like Messmer as punishment for their crimes and to reminds crowds the win over a blasphemous foe. It also might help explain why thorns are used to represent a guilty individual and why we see fire monks and the Thorn Sorcerer together and also why Fire prelates wield Thorn whips, that are said to be inspired by Briars of sin. This are some of the items that are likely related to Messmer in some way and can support the theory above. -The giant's seal -Burn O Flame! -Flame of the Fell God -Bloodboon -Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear -Briars of Punishment -Flame Sling. -Dragon Communion Seal -Drake Knight Set -Duelist Helm -Devourer's Scepter -Blasphemous Blade -Staff of the Guilty -Fire Monk Hood -Shield of the Guilty -Guilty Hood -Thorned Whip -Depraved Perfumer Robe (two red snakes embroider in the front)
formless mother? blood? is this a formless oedon reference? speaking of which, formless oedon successfully impregnates an npc and said npc gives birth to his child. what if…
7:26 this is called "Ring of Miquella", and the pre-order bonus gesture references that (just like the base game pre-order bonus gesture with the Elden Ring)
@@-thebatman- right, I’m more referring to the order in which her children were born. As it is, we’ve been thinking that Melina is one of her youngest know children along with Miquela and Malenia… or is the GEQ or otherwise born in the Lands Between. But perhaps Malina was born before Marika’s conquest reached the Lands Between. Wild speculation: Heck, Maybe Marika created Melina and Messmer without birthing either. The Erdtree and Shadow Tree were wildly overgrown Two Fingers. Elden John is some sort of representation of Messmer…. Other fun nonsense.
@@jennydeaf9O9I didn’t see the Hailiggtree, I’ll watch again. Foot could be mean base, base could mean foundation, foundation could be origin, origin of the Erdtree in the Lands Between could be the burning or deaths of the land of Shadow Erdtree and Parasite tree. Look, I’m not making a serious effort here, just a convoluted errant thought.
Melina is still one of the biggest enigmas around, given her association with Destined Death. Perhaps there was a time when she acted as the Gloam-Eyed Queen, having challenged Marika's authority by enacting the god hunt. Never having the heart to dispatch her daughter, Malekith would be sent in Marika's stead. Malekith would have seized the Rune of Death & by using its power against her, Melina would be robbed of her original body, but not her spirit, hence being "burned & bodiless". This exact scenario mirrors the fate of Godwyn & Ranni, meaning that the Rune of Death delivers both physical & spiritual deaths as the wielder demands. Through such a humbling defeat, Melina resigned herself to the role of Kindling Maiden as an act of atonement.
Considering elden ring characters use of old english, the word "realm" would refer to a different kingdom/land, so this would mean that the "realm of shadow" would just be the land that the shadowed erdtree resides in, instead of it being a completely different dimension. Also messmer's arms and legs, being as long as they are, remind me of the godskin apostle, with it's lanky frame which is mostly focused on it's arms and legs
As a theory, Messmer is the dream world Godwin. -Godwin uses a sword spear -Godwin fought the dragons, however they respected him and Fortisax stood by his side as a close friend even after death My theory is that it is Godwin, however he lost his soul in the night of black knives, letting him forget his name and his ideals, becoming a twisted dream version of going down the route of depravity with dark flames and snakes.
The beginning of this video goes so hard cause all I could focus on was the Bloodborne soundtrack. Giving me emotional flashbacks to Gehrman the first hunter. Damn ye
Something I'd like to point out, the snakes on Messmer are very similar to Rya. On the description of Daedicar's Woe it states that Daedicar had many children. Could these snakes be her children like Rya?
Mesmer is definitely the brother of Melania and Miquella. Marika had three children with each spouse apart from Radagon. 3 with Godfrey (Godwyn, Morgott, Mohg) 3 with Rennala (Radahn, Ranni, Rykard) but only 2 with Radagon (Melania, Miquella) so it would make sense that he is the exiled brother of the latter.
Just had an interesting theory that I’d like to throw out there regarding Miquella. As Elden Ring has a lot of religious inspired stuff, what if Miquella is inspired by ideas of the Holy Trinity from the Bible. God is often called 3 in 1 Father Son and Holy Ghost (God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit) what if there are 3 Miquellas in one. You could have Son/Jesus Miquella (who is young Miquella or possibly “Kind Miquella”, Holy Ghost Miquella or Saint Trina (the spirit at the end of the trailer), and Father Miquella, one we have yet to see. Maybe Cacoon Miquella is a version of Miquella who will be resurrected like Jesus was resurrected.
My theory is that Messmer is the first born child of Marika and Radagon making him Miquella and Melania's full brother. Maybe he was banished there by Marika for something he'd done in the past. And whatever it was was so horrible that he and the memories people had of him were wiped from/kept out of the land in between intentionally. I find it hard to believe they'd add a new character that has little to nothing to do with what actually going on in the story and was never mentioned in the main game. There has to be a connection in their lineage somewhere..
From the lore ive seen. Radagon even though he was marika didnt start coming around until the Carian Manor and Golden Order started fighting and him and Rennala fell for eachother. This is where marika became a god. I dont think she was able to be radagon yet
Also in the title (Check 1:11), the "O" in "Shadow of the Erdtree" is 2 dragons devouring each other. Could be another hint to Dragon Communion next to the eyes and armor.
I have a question for you all... Why are snakes considered traitors to the Erdtree? Well, I think we have our answer. Messmer is the "original" traitor. He was the proud and mighty son of Radagon, born with the power of flame due to his father being cursed by the Fire Giants. He was more than likely an Empyrean, but Messmer decided to betray the Erdtree for some reason, leading to his exile and expungement from the annals of history. From then on, snakes were considered traitors to the Erdtree due to Messmer's connections to serpents... Also, unique tidbit of information... Messmer is not a _new_ character that was written into the world by Hidetaka Miyazaki. He has been stated to have been one of the characters that was originally created by G.R.R.M, which means that Miyazaki and the team deliberately made no mention of him throughout the game. Interesting thought, no?
Im sure there is a story reason Messmer's name seemingly is wiped from all mention in the base game. If we are to assume he is a child of Marika I think of all her children that is the one she wanted to keep hidden, but why? I guess due to whatever he did. Which is wild considering Mogh and Morgot get to roam free and Malenia did her whole scarlett rot curse on the lands. I do at least hope there is some good build up to him prior to the boss fight, I'd like to know more than just "cursed child banished for reasons we're not gonna explain."
The only issue with saying that Messmer is the originator of the rebellion against the Erdtree is that the gladiators were fighting the serpent in the arenas during the time of Godfrey before Radagon, so the timeline doesn't quite line up.
@@TSpoon823 That's why I'm still more than a little doubtful about this theory... Edit: Another possibility is that Messmer has decided to take on the aspects of the enemies of the Golden Order as a way to spite Marika for abandoning him and leaving him to rot. I mean, he wields fire, he's garbed in snakes, even his eyes look like he's partaken in Dragon Communion.
@@WaterFlame3030 yeah. Something like that is possible. I think along with themes of Gold, Fire, and Sleep, the Crucible is central to this DLC too. I wonder if the serpent is a traitor to the Erdtree because it sided with the dragons and aspects of the crucible rather than seeking to evolve with the age of the Erdtree. And maybe the shadow land is the main place where crucible worship remained. And maybe Messmer went that way and was banished as a result as he tried to overthrow the Erdtree through the power of the snake/dragon. Could Messmer be mocking Marika for wanting a Tarnished to become Lord when we first hear him talk? After banishing him for his allegiance to the snake and crucible, why would Marika then turn around let a Tarnished, bereft of light, become Elden Lord?
My strongest opinion is that he is the empyrean sealed away LONG AGO, sealed in death. his "flames" start up is similar the death runes left after the Maliketh fight. The godskins wield similar flame just white and we know thats a lack luster vision of the OG death. Miquella is going to either kill or release Messmer. We know miquella isn't a fighter like Ranni so we will be responsible for either or like a choice. I also felt it weird Melinna and Miquella being the only siblings not having another sibling and he resembles their closely. We never know exactly when the Deathe rebellion took place in comparison to the twins being born either. We just know that they appeared after Marika/Radagon became a god, and then again we dont know we that happened exactly. [E] The line of " All those stripped of grace meets death. Embraced by Messmer's flames" to me adds even more ties to Destine death. The Godskins have serpentine qualities at well. Messmer is holding his ruins in his pre order picture and the other one is Miquella's. Im just excited for the lore !! UGH MAY CHOAS TAKE THE WORLD !!!
here are my 2 messmer theories: 1. he is marika’s child but he’s so sinful that marika banished him. because miquelland takes in anyone who’s rejected by the world, it takes in messmer by accident. messmer now wreaks havoc in miquelland. because he’s been banished for so long, there are no traces of him in the lands between, there is no chair for him at the erdtree, and morgott doesn’t name drop him. 2. there is a painting in the trailer showing the guy who pulls out his spine (spine guy) and a woman holding her stomach standing next to him. i think that the woman here is trina, and she isn’t blonde but has red hair, like how marika’s hair turns red when turning into radagon, which is why the woman’s hair in the painting appears darker rather than brighter. they both are wearing trina-esque fashion, so i think the woman is probably trina. messmer also refers to his execution as an embrace. all the demigod children in elden ring take after their parents in some way. malenia boasts her strength like how her father was renowned as a champion (even if it’s fake news), godrick is obsessed with strength because he wants to live up to godfrey’s name, rennala’s children all study some sort of effed up arcane arts, and miquella is known for being kind and merciful like his mother. messmer referring to his attack as a form of kindness hints towards the fact that he could be marika or miquella/trina’s son. i think messmer is like pontiff sullyvahn. he’s born in miquelland, a kind of alternate dimension world, and learns all sorts of effed up things and then goes apeshit. he’s fighting us probably because he doesn’t think we’re good enough to be miquella’s consort, and he wants to avoid another mohg situation
Also The lion like boss on this Trailer was Take reference from Creature name Barong from Indonesia Balinese Folklore, a lion like Creature who Guides the Atma/ Energy of living to Loka/The Underworld & Enemy of Ragda the witch.
You knocked it out of the park with this one. I respect the care you put into all of these videos. Very thorough and even if some thing’s turn out to be incorrect, the video was very entertaining 🤙🏼
Insert Charlie meme: Norse mythology may be the key for a lot of the lore. One giant example: Yggdrasil looks a lot like the Erd tree. Shadow of the Erd tree looks a lot like the roots. I.e. the roots of the Golden Order. At the roots of Yggdrasil is Nidhogg the serpent dragon Or Messmer. Everything that is considered blasphemous to the Erd tree lives at the roots of the Erd tree.
Guys Miquella’s corpse in Mogh’s palace is wearing an engagement ring with a two headed serpents which is Messmer’s symbol. But that ring was giving to him by Mogh. I wonder what’s the connection?
It’s very likely that Mesmer is yet another demigod. And is standing against miquella and his quest having divulged himself of the golden lineage, one which messmer idolized despite being shunned and hidden in the shadow of said grace
I wonder if this is the "unwanted and soulless demigod child" some of the ghosts mentioned in the main story. Also, we know Miquella was working towards restoring soul of Godwyn, so perhaps he was also trying to restore this Messmir as well? Or perhaps Messmir is related to Godwyn in some way?
An issue with the beginning and of the video is that Fromsoft DLC should always be looked with the eyes of a new adventure. Gael wasn’t mentioned before the DLC. And their endings are self contained, even DS2’s new ending doesn’t require the anti-hollow crown to be completed.
I mean, it's confirmed that he's Marika's child, but we don't necessarily know who the father is. Just because his hair is red isn't definitive proof of anything, it could just be because of his dragon magic or something
One thing I noticed is that his title is the same as Vlad the Impalers. Vlad has many myths about him, such as being the source of the story’s of Dracula. But one thing that I would like to bring up is the title of his father which was dragon. And if you look at Messmer’s eyes they look like dragon eyes. Now it’s possible that this means Messmer has partaken in dragon communion, this wouldn’t surprise me. It’s also possible that his father could be a dragon, though this seems a bit less likely. But one theory that probably isn’t true is, maybe Messmer did something akin to dragon communion but with a Serpent? I don’t really know what this would entail but it sure would be interesting. Or maybe Messmer will just have a final phase where he turns into some kind of vampiric dragon, idk.
Messmer's spear has the same design as Fire Monk spear decorations in their camps! Also the tip of the spear reminds of flame, just like the weapon held by the bigger Fire Monks!
Hmmm this is interesting to note, Messmer has dragon symbolism as well as the snakes which is which might link him the the dragon cult in the capital as well. I'm almost wondering if he was the general leading the siege on the capital that had the huge dragon battle in the middle of the city. There's all kinds of lore around the earlier times in the history of the Lands Between in reference to dragons and he seems linked in some way to that. One other thing that is striking to me is his name "Messmer, the Impailer". Could this be in reference the spear impailed in Marika's side when we see her at the end of the game? If so why is that significant? One of my theories around this is that it may be a type of curse that rendered Marika unable to birth more demi god children. Thus making the possibility of obtaining the throne of Elden Lord and even godhood (replacing her) an easier task for those looking to conquer the Lands Between from the Golden Order. This Messmer guy may be a previously unmentioned Third child of Marika and Radagon with Empyrean status as well. Due to these events in the history prior to the game it seems he succeeded in his namesake title of "Impailer" but failed in his siege attempt on the capital and may have been banished to this shadow realm seen in the DLC for his crimes against the Erdtree and the Golden Order. Just some interesting thoughts 😊👍
I think messmer is actually a ‘good guy’ but as probably the primary ‘shadow of the erdtree’ being personified into him, I’m guessing he’s the one who does the golden orders dirty work &/or provides some sort of great power & has been locked away, used as a battery….ORRR all the bad qualities the golden order needs to rule but shoved down into another realm
In regards to the eclipse video, and Godwyns lack of soul. 4:29 here, the bit about Miquella divesting his flesh, potentially to escape Mogh or whatever to otherwise travel to the shadow lands in his soul form. And the eclipse theory being to resurrect (renew, rebirth) Godwyn, perhaps souls can travel to this land when they are severed from flesh (Godwyn may be here too), or perhaps Miquella found another way to do this on his own, and will use his own soul to make Godwyn whole again (rebirth) and at the same time achieving his goal of growing into an adult from an eternal child. Miquella would've looked up to Godwyn in some way I'm sure, as a (seemingly) pure being without flaws, and also perhaps had some non-insidious jealousy of that flawlessness, and in his plan to rebirth himself found a way to simultaneously resurrect godwyn, essentially the two becoming the same being. Which also has parallels to Marika/Radagon.
due to his connection with smoldering butterflies which relates him to malenia and miquella and the fact that the ghost outside of the impalers catacombs talking about a lost sibling it feels all from confirmed that he’s a son of marika and radagon, which makes him empyrean, which brings up the terrifying idea of him hosting an outer being on top of all the abilities he already has
imagine he’s a reoccurring enemy that changes up and becomes more difficult every encounter, his last fight being a 3 phase one… Keeping him alive for the story and progression of the tarnished
3:40 alot of people don’t seem to look closely but if I'm not mistaken, that's part of Melinas dress, but of course we don't get a full picture so it could be anything. I just think that Melina might be hunting us down or we might get more on her later in the DLC
I remember the effort Miquella put in to try to revive Godwyn and when I think about Miquella going into some land of dreams to see his fallen Lord, I immediately think of Godwyn's forever death through living deep in dreams, Messmer is probably a new character to us as most FromSoftware Dlcs are where we always think the dlc is gonna explain lore, but it only does so by adding more puzzle pieces. Since he is tied to the rune of death and there is a huge theme in this game about characters having alter-egos or new forms I would not be suprised if he was some new form of Godwyn
I can’t wait for the repeating crossbow we see in the trailer, even though it isn’t very good, I love Gael’s auto crossbow in ds3 and I can’t wait to use one in Elden ring
I think it makes the most sense for Messmer to just be Messmer and not something that was hidden within plain sight. Maybe hidden in some item description, but here’s why I say that. George RR Martin wrote the mythos. Miyazaki made a Dark Souls game with Dark Souls storytelling based off that mythos. As someone who hardly knows these things, I think something along the lines of an entire mythos will never “get justice” in a Souls game. Before anyone let FromSoft breathe, there was all these assumptions. Messmer was not one of those assumptions. Honestly, there’s probably another character that’s like Messmer if we ever get to read what Martin wrote. The dlc won’t give us the rest of the answers but i guess my point is that we never had them (obviously). This is a long comment and probably looks like a rant but yes it’s fun to speculate. Great video
I've recently went back and just kinda doing more exploring. Some areas I said "f that" (specifically the worm face area in altas plateau lol). But now that I'm level 220 😅 I walk around like the final boss just unphased lmao. Anyways I've found at least 5-6 new items and 2-3 areas I never discovered. I knew that the lightning ram ashe of war existed... I just never got it myself. Totally missed that whole area on top by the capital entrance. Just blows my mind every time I discover a new item 200 hours into the game. The feeling you get on your first playthrough is simply unmatched by anything else, especially modern. Its like a great movie where I wish I could delete my brains save file and replay it again and again 😂.. Truly just a masterpiece of a game.
From what I have gathered: Messmer is Elden Ring's Nameless King. He's always been apart of the story, and the dlc will tell us why he isn't in the legends of the Erdtree.
Crazy idea, Messmer is a child of Marika from before she became the vassal of the Greater Will/Golden Order when she was still just a regular mortal, and he embraced a number of forbidden powers so as to keep up and aid her but then had to be hidden away for some reason. This could set him up as a foil to the Tarnished; a grab bag of different powers and rising above his lowly origins, claiming a great rune(s) and a throne.
A little cool detail is that one of the attacks we see Mesmer does him impaling his spear into the ground and thrusting it to make some other spears poke up from the ground is actually the blasphemous version of the attack we get to use as an ash of war in the cleanrot spear which is a holy weapon.
You see lava and mechanical devices handling lava in the trailer (1:07). Maybe he was an ally of Marika but became friends with Rykard and rebelled as a result. The snake imagery backs this up, too. Alternatively, he's a twisted shadow of Miquella created by Mogh's interference. Considering the narration telling us thst those who lose grace will face him it's a bit of a long shot, but I can't shake the idea that he only exists in Miquella's mind. He's the blood of Mogh slowly taking Miquella over. There are references to blood in the narration. He uses fire like Mogh and his outfit resembles Mogh's. Also, why is it Miquella specifically who is guiding us?
I have a theory: Mesmer is the son of Queen Marika and Mesmer wanted to burn the erd tree so he seeked out the giants flame that never stops burning and while doing this impaled all the giants. When Mesmer finally stole a piece of the giants flame he went to the erd tree and tried to burn it which is why some of the branches at the erd tree are burned. So Queen Marika bound and imprisoned Mesmer in the shadow realm and he has been trying to get back ever since. This could explain why he has flame as weapon and why it’s so powerful because he stole a piece from the giants flame. Also at the gracelocation before Godfrey boss fight there is a throne that has a almost like a veil surrounding it and that same throne and veil looks exactly like the erd tree in the DLC trailer, which could mean only thing the veil or curtain looking thing that surround the erd tree in the trailer is a veil placed over the shadow realm to imprison Mesmer this would explain why it’s called the “shadow realm” because it is the veil is causing a shadow and in that shadow the shadow realm is kept safe. Also like I said before it’s very interesting that at the grave location before Godfrey fight looks exactly like how the wrd tree looks in the dlc trailer, perhaps that seat and room was Mesmers throne and room and queen Marika copied the veil that surrounds the seat in the grace location room as a way to insult and belittle Mesmer because he betrayed queen Marika his mother. Please let me know your thoughts
I’m getting Hela from Thor: Ragnarok vibes. Theory time: when Marika arrived in the land of shadow/lands between, she and Mesmer destroyed all opposition to her. But then as Marika moved into her new age she cast her violent child aside or left them in the Land of Shadow to start her Golden Order. He still seems somewhat loyal to her from his voice line, but that might not be the case. Would also make sense that Miquella, the golden son, would return to challenge this darker aspect of the Golden Order before beginning his new age.
Messmer is heavily inspired by Satan from "Paradise Lost Poem" by Milton. He is depicted sitting on throne with giant tree behind (Tree of knowledge reference) and the snake on his spear reminds a lot on snake from Eden with Adam and Eve on each side.
Messmer was likely an enemy of the golden order well before the shattering. If that’s the case then Messmer was an issue while Malekith was still active in the setting. It’s possible that Marika didn’t just have Malekith kill him because Messmer was just too strong which is why he was sealed in the land of shadow. This is terrifying from a lore perspective as every demigod is said to be kept in line by Malekith’s power except for Messmer apparently
Messmer design screams "President of the "I hate the Golden Order" Club
All my homies hate the golden order
This was made by I hate the golden order club
@@tasosplat3589 No.I love the Golden Order
@@MrVictor1227 Man fuck the Golden Order. Embrace the Loathsome Dungeater. Let the fallen leaves tell the story of the curse of the Loathsome Dungeater🗣️🗣️🗣️💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥🔥🔛🔛🔛🔝🔝🔝🤫🤫🤫🧏♂️🧏♂️🧏♂️
@@MrVictor1227 watch out goldy if i see you on realm of shadows it's on sight
I remember seeing a comment that says that Messmer is the embodiment of every ''Sin''.
-Dragon Communion
-Blood Incantations
-Scarlet Rot
-Red Snakes
Don’t forget deathblight if the texture and color of his flame magic is anything to go off of.
Thorn sorcery too
IT'S NOT A PHASE MOM!
@@yuomovaeh3028 thorn sorcery= blood incantations
Messmer, the first Edge Lord
I believe Messmer is the one who stole the flame of ruin from the giants, reminding everyone of the giants' bodies impaled on the mountaintops with thorn spears. Also, Messmer could be the Blood Star that thorn sorcerers saw and are searching for (which also, I've been seeing, it is related to the formless mother and that could be the reason behind the entrance being on Mogh's Castle).
damn good analysis
God damn I love this idea 👏
You may be right about the blood star. But there's an inconsistency about the giant thing. Since Messmer has red hair and a name that starts with M like the twins Miquella and Malenia this hints at Messmer being a child of Marika and Radagon. If that's the case then he couldn't have been the one to kill all the giants since Marika's war against them predates her union with Radagon, who's red hair is a symbols of the giant's curse that was given to Marika after her genocide of the giants.
The flame is the blood star, thorn sorcerers are blind and can only see the blood star. We see fire monks escort them to near the flame where we can see them stare at the flame/star.
I've been thinking that the thorn sorcerors are likely connected here to the gigantic wicker man we've seen, and would explain their connection to the flame of ruin (with its huge prelate-like bowl). That they continue to wander the land spreading it feels like an echo of the things from a prior age now sealed in shadow. Messmer seems to bind together all of the flames of blasphemy that sought to burn the tree.
Serpent god curved sword:
"Curved sword fashioned in the image of an ancient serpent deity
and tool of a forgotten" religion practiced on Mt. Gelmir.
This is one of the smarter comments I seen, as opposed to people asking if he is Miquella
The ancient serpent deity is the one rykard likes also there’s a few weapons that’ll reference it , hence why volcano manor is on mount gelmir rykard followed the same religion
@@Wyrdist right, the only comparable feature to Miquella is the lanky arm.
@@TheTromaster I forgot where I read this, but I think it’s stated that Miquella discarded his flesh and went to the shadow realm in a similar manner as Ranni inhabiting a doll that resembles Renna. The lanky arm is what I assume to be his discarded flesh, and likely not out of resentment towards Mohg, but the fact that it’s literally a corpse is why he was unresponsive.
@Wyrdist He is literally Miquella's antithesis. Miquella is associated with sleep, purity (unalloyed), femininity and has a very angelic appearance. Mesmerizing is another word for hypnotizing (aka forced "sleep" as opposed to a natural and peaceful state). Messmer is obviously physically imposing and basically the devil (snakes, fire, serpent eyes, dragons). I believe we could have something of a Marika/Radagon situation going on here. The symbolism in their duality is just too striking to me.
I believe he is inspired by Jungian psychology and something of a shadow self of Miquella, hence Shadow of the Erdtree.
I think Messmer is thematically the opposite of Godwyn. If Godwyn is the perfect demigod-prince loved by everyone then Messmer was such a crazy and destructive guy that Marika locked him up in an entirely different land to keep him the f away from everyone.
But it’s like no one knows of him. It’s odd because he’s mostly likely a child of radagon meaning he’s most likely younger than other demigods so why banish him to the land of shadows, or maybe she tasked him there instead.
...Godwyn wasn't loved by everyone though? Are you implying both of them have a reputation that belies the true story underneath?
@@teekay851 Compared to the other Demi-Gods, Godwyn was practically universally loved and was the only Demi-God to actually unite major factions under the Golden Order without mass slaughter as the main tool. This made him the perfect target for those that hated the Golden Order, which leads to his death and our Tarnished Journey. From the lore we have, he wasn't inherently malicious.
@@TheRealBlakers man I want a godwyn DLC one day. No idea what that would be... but they could make it work
@@agm5424 funny enough pretty much everyone loves Messmer, so much they abandoned their lives in the lands between to become his servants like Renalla's younger sister, commander Gaius and children of noble houses.
I am still blown away by the trailer, the amount of new content, new formidable bosses, weapons, it’s just pure artistry, Elden Ring is my favorite game of all time, and this DLC will elevate it to another level, looks to be FROM’s best DLC ever, which is an order so tall I’ll be amazed if they achieved it, I am so grateful for this DLC, really!
“Mother, wouldst thou truly lordship sanction, in one so bereft of light?” Oh so good!!
Me too, friend. Very grateful to be a part of this journey with all you fellow tarnished!!! If you asked me before Elden Ring came out what my favorite was, it would have been a game I haven't even played in years...Can't wait!
Fanboying hard
@@HellonearthlABB yes I am
@@HellonearthlABB 👍
@@HellonearthlABB Yes we are, my Tarnished friend!
Miyazaki said, in his interview, that Messmer and the rest of the DLC story was already written from Martin together with the base game story-world as one whole part. They decided later, to separate it like that into base game and dlc. Very interesting to think about. It is all going to be more connected than it may seem at first, its not really a "different" story
Messmer has serpents (a blasphemous enemy to the Erdtree), thorns (used by sinners, enemies to the Erdtree), bloodflame (symbol of the formless mother (enemy to the Erdtree)), dragon communion eyes (dragons are enemies to the Erdtree) and red hair of the giants (enemy to the Erdtree). He even shares skin color with the godskins (enemies to the Erdtree.
All he needs are Omen horns, Albinauric legs and Misbegotten's Boris Johnson haircut to cover all groups the Erdtree/Golden Order hates.
The NPC saying "O Marika. He is your unwanted child." outside the Impaler's Catacomb supports his mother being Marika. It's puzzling why Godwyn (the only known dead child of Marika) would be unwanted and what it has to do with an "impaler", so another child (Messmer) makes sense. Maybe he's Godwyn's twin? Or Miquella, Melania and Messmer are triplets?
All I know is that it's badass for him to have been planned from the start.
Except Radagon who has red hair wasn't an enemy.
The impaler catacomb is red herring look at the sainted hero tomb. In it wecan see Rosus cast a light that removes the shadow of the enemies in the tomb. This allows them to be vulnerable to attack and we even see a gladiator in shadow form. The gladiators armor closely resembles messmer armor, snakes on both their helmets is an obvious similarity.
Marika shattered the Elden Ring, and Radagon worked to fix it, the theory is that Radagon's existence was to oppose Marika's rebellious nature towards the greater will which is a pretty good theory, and another point to make is the idea that Messmer was another empyrean who was shunned to the land of shadows after his blasphemous and sinful acts against the Golden Order@@DarksideGmss0513
@@DarksideGmss0513 He wasn't an enemy no but he himself didn't like his red hair that was so connected to the giants. Melania and Radahn aren't stated to be enemies to the Erdtree, but still have Radagon's red hair.
And in the end he was sort of an enemy to what Marika wanted to do with the Elden ring
Probably some kind of omen, misbegotten and/or albinaurics work for him
Wow I can’t believe I missed the detail with the impaled giants! Great video. I wonder if the “snakes” (plural) are instead a two-headed snake. There’s a lot of obscure symbolism and interpretation around a double-ended snake and it could be something worth exploring
I have a pretty big theory. In the beginning of the game you see a painting of Godfrey in the crucifixion pose. With a big impalement in his chest/stomach. Messmer says in the trailer that “those stripped of the grace of gold” he would kill them. When Queen Marika stripped their grace. She sent Godfrey and his army to the badlands. I believe that Messer was her secret assassin. Once they were stripped of their grace, Messmer killed Godfrey and his army. Godfrey was described as the strongest man to have ever walked the lands between. So if he was KILLED.. who killed the strongest man to ever live? Why did we not hear about it? I believe that it was the perfect setup for Messer. The reason that we never heard of him was because anyone who was stripped of grace and left the lands between. Met their end by Messmers flame. What do you think about this?
In addition, The Golden order banned fire magic while they were in power. Hence why Marika send her army to kill the giants so she wouldn’t have to worry about the giants fire god. What if Messmer became closer to god hood than any of the other Demi gods? What if at first he was just the impaler, then he developed a mix with of fire/destined death magic. Then he was sent away? I haven’t thought about this second one crazy in-depth but I would love to hear other peoples theories or comments about mine (:
this makes me think Messer might potentially still be allied with Marika
@@swordam1063 well I thought that at first as well… but seeing the red “spear” impaling queen Marika inside of the Erdtree. I feel like something happened to them. I feel like Messer has something to do with the true intentions of the shattering.
My brothers in Greater Will, his name is Messmer.
@@cheesecrew complete mistype on my half 😂 thank you!
The veil behind the Erdtree actually looks like the interior of the Queen's Bedchamber. And if you think about it, the tree looks like it's upside-down, with the root system where the canopy should be. I think the shadow realm (maybe the afterlife?) is basically an upside-down version of the Lands Between, and when people die they return to the Erdtree through the roots and are taken back to the land of the living. I also think Messmer is Miquella's male alter, while St Trina (the radiant figure riding Torrent in the original promotional material) is his female alter, just like Marika and Radagon. And Messmer looks a whole lot like Malenia.
Miquella is male.
@@PS3Vids10tell that to marika and Radagon, in the words of ace Ventura "Rey Finkle is Einhorn, Einhorn is Rey Finkle..."
miquella is already miquella’s male alter?
but the idea of a flipped world is what i’m hoping for too. it’ll be like totk where you have double the map to explore
thats a good theory, maybe that is the purpose of the erdtree sap being collected
Messmer is not an alter ego of miquella. Miyazaki said he messmer is a child of marika
Messmer can literally be so many people FromSoft really cooked with this one ez goty
He's Marikas child, Miyazaki has already answered this
Google translate is inconsistent, cant use it as concrete evidence@YeetThyBaby
@@YeetThyBabyto be fair, that doesn’t exactly narrow the list 💀
@@uglahboi6074 yes it does, he has red hair so he's a child of Radagon and Marika, so his siblings are Malenia and Miquella.
@@YeetThyBaby true enough. It’s been implied that Marika had children besides the ones we faced in the base game right? Or at least that there were other “lesser” demigods about?
Great observation on the Giants in the mountain tops... The IMPALED Giants.
what if i said his literally me
Whoooaa! Do you know where Miquella is?! Please please I beg you. 😊
@HeyTarnished That's not the right question... Do you have a long snake? @Williamhowlett9570
He's... Not his
I believe you, now impale me
Your not that guy pal , your not that guy.
Another thing about that great rune, if you preorder SotE, you get an emote called Ring of Miquella, which compared to that rune, confirms that that rune belongs to Miquella.
I saw the snakes and first thought of him as a disciple of rhykard. But after the confirmation of him being Marikas kid I think he's a sort of loki lucifer like figure who betrayed Marika
Those theories are not mutually exclusive.
You see lava and mechanical devices handling lava in the trailer (1:07). Maybe he became friends with Rykard and rebelled as a result. The snake imagery backs this up, too.
Alternatively, he's a twisted shadow of Miquella created by Mogh's interference. There are references to blood in the narration, and why is it Miquella who is guiding us?
I think he's the originator of the snake cult stuff. Like the snakes being associated with traitors of the erdtree maybe stsrted with him? I think rhykard was attempting to emulate him by adopting the snake stuff. Either way this stuff is very cool and can't wait to see where it takes us
Messmer is the firstborn of Marika conceived when she was still a human lady of the numen people and married to that guy in the picture, a Numen lord who's Messmer's father.
Messmer has the grace of gold in his eyes, which might indicate that Marika received godhood from the Greater Will while pregnant.
Messmer uses thorn sorceries and fire while upholding the sigil of the serpent, which suggests he revolted against his mother and the Golden Order and, to counter it, he gathered knowledge of all heretic powers, including giant's flame and thorn sorceries, so he was banished to the Shadow Realm. Basically the "Prodigal Son" and "Satan" tropes in the same character.
Also, he may be to the Blood Star what Malenia is to The Rot and Mohg is to the Formless Mother.
I like your theory, I think it's a closest one to actual lore...
There's zero evidence supporting your theory of her having children that aren't from Godfrey or Radagon. If anything, Messmer's red hair is reminiscent of Radagon.
Now to go so far as to think there is a third father, who's actually the old dude in the painting who became a horrible skeleton boss... That's ridiculous
But why does his skinny hands and huge palm look exactly like miquella's from the cocoon?
I think messmer’s flame is a crucible flame. It’s clearly a flame we’ve never seen before and it has a thorny/vine like growth to it when it’s manifested and if you look close, it looks like it’s golden somewhat. Almost as if the grace of gold has been super heated in a kiln of some kind. Or, you know, a crucible perhaps.
According to Miyazaki he is Marika's child
That isn't concrete as that information was google translated which are notorously inconsistent
@@ravelordnito6099 however he has red hair
@@ravelordnito6099 multiple translators have come forward and confirmed it :)
@ra42077やさしいな、俺なら教えないわ草
@@ravelordnito6099 no it's pretty much correct he has the red hair of radagon.
Messmer has to be a son of radagon/marika surely, the red hair is a dead giveaway
He is, Miyazaki has already answered this in an interview
@@YeetThyBaby oh ok, I didn't know this
Or it could be the red hair of the fire giants? Since he has symbols of almost all groups that the Golden Order hates.
my theory is that mesmer is the unwanted child of Queen Marika and in the trailer we see a rune that seems to look like the rune of the unborn. this rune is called the “Rune of the Unwanted” i think we will use this rune combined with the rune of the unborn to attach it to the eldin ring and then miquela will be reborn. and that will be our new ending i also have a bunch of theory’s i would gladly explain if anyone wants and it explains how marika gotten to the lands between and also how i believe farum azula was originally in the lands of shadow but was transported to the lands between bringing marika with it
Unless he was lying Miyazaki allready confirmed in a interview there is no new endings..
Some amazing revaltions in this video. Like the way his spear resembles the great Rune shown. Tons of lore and speculation from that alone.
I bet the Great Rune looking thing that we see sticking out of the ground (7:28) is going to be the Shadow Realm version of Site of Grace. We know that the grace of the Erdtree is not present in this realm so there has to be an alternative, and Miyazaki said we will follow Miquela's footsteps.
Between the giant being impaled by spears similar to his and the voice saying "those bereft of grace shall find death in messmers flame" could it be possible that he was a sort of executioner for the golden order?
Could explain the heretical rise. He might’ve sided with the dragons as well
thats wut i was thinking only executioners would say something like that
Yeah to be honest as cringe as some people might find it he reminds me a hell of alot of MCU Hela if the assumptions about his lore are correct
I cringe at this shitty game. @@aydenbonnet9630
There's an inconsistency about the giant thing. Since Messmer has red hair and a name that starts with M like the twins Miquella and Malenia this hints at Messmer being a child of Marika and Radagon. If that's proven to be the case then he couldn't have been the one to kill all the giants since Marika's war against them predates her union with Radagon, who's red hair is a symbol of the giant's curse that was given to Marika after her genocide of the giants.
I agree, like others mentioned before that Messmer could be the forgotten son of Marika and Radagon. Adding to his whole snake aesthetics, I wanna point out that Miquella's supposed "cocoon", could also be interpreted looking like a hatched snake egg - so one could argue that Mohg may have not stolen and fed Miquella but Messmer (as others also pointed out), which no one knew about. This of course would open up speculation, how and why Miquella went to the Land of Shadows.
Smoldering butterfly has always been thought to represent Melina.
But I could be Messmer and we have to take few steps back when it comes to Melina.
Maybe it represents them both. He was the fire starter and she was lit up to burn the tree for the first time. He also have one eye closed.
It's going to be really interesting to see how and if Melina is somehow relevant to the lore of DLC
i dunno, melina does not use any flame abilities, the only connection she has to flame is she is used as fuel to burn the erdtree.
@@yuomovaeh3028I think Melina is one of those characters that we know the least of. She might as well be in shadow land when she is not in the lands between.
Definitely is
He’s Miquella’s Radagon. It could be very clear. Trailer opens up on Miquellas hand, Messmer is first introduced by his hand, the trailer ends with Miquellas extended hand. That’s all I need.
Could be. All that was stated was a he’s a child of Marika which Miquella is.
Yeah it was pretty clear to me it’s Miquella. The red hair and it’s the same frame for Miquellas hand in Mohg’s palace vs his reveal. I didn’t think it would even be a debate who it is
And messmer's hands look similar to miquella's
as the person says "touch the withered arm" the withered arm grabs the tarnished. Fromsoft went nuts on creative storytelling in one little trailer
Look up the lore of the Blood Star. I’m p sure that Messmer is the source of thorn sorceries, being that sinners who lost their eyesight became able to see him. He seems to have elements of multiple enemies of the Erdtree: snakes, dragons, possibly giants. It is possible that by killing Marika’s enemies, he becomes corrupted by them himself, and that is why he must stay in the realm of shadow.
I actually think Messmer is somewhat of a red herring. I think his lineage and purpose will be easy to figure out. The big reveals I think will have to do with the man and woman in the portrait. The man seems to be another boss at some point. Maybe this is the explanation for why Marika removed Destined Death from the Elden Ring.
I been trying to find hints and connections to Messmer. I been reading a lot of item descriptions and here are my conclusions.
My big take away is that he was likely a dragon hunter during the time of the crucible. His pet snake also partook in eating dragons and might be the reason it had wings. At some point he lost an eye and he to saw the blood star (Like Mogh). The Blood star is likely to be the flame inside the caldron the Fire giant protects. He eventually reached the flame and communicated with the Formless mother.
One important detail about communing with the formless mother is that the worshipper need to blind and punish themselves. The thorn sorcerers impale themselves, Mogh impales the formless mother and his eye has been impaled by his horn, Messmer is called the impaler.
He was eventually killed or sealed away for blasphemy, possibly burning Erdtree the first time (tarnished archeologist pointed out that the tree was likely burned once and it is likely why we need grace to see the Erdtree). After his defeat the gladiators were likely dressed to look like Messmer as punishment for their crimes and to reminds crowds the win over a blasphemous foe. It also might help explain why thorns are used to represent a guilty individual and why we see fire monks and the Thorn Sorcerer together and also why Fire prelates wield Thorn whips, that are said to be inspired by Briars of sin.
This are some of the items that are likely related to Messmer in some way and can support the theory above.
-The giant's seal
-Burn O Flame!
-Flame of the Fell God
-Bloodboon
-Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear
-Briars of Punishment
-Flame Sling.
-Dragon Communion Seal
-Drake Knight Set
-Duelist Helm
-Devourer's Scepter
-Blasphemous Blade
-Staff of the Guilty
-Fire Monk Hood
-Shield of the Guilty
-Guilty Hood
-Thorned Whip
-Depraved Perfumer Robe (two red snakes embroider in the front)
Best theory by far
Serpent God curved sword too
formless mother? blood? is this a formless oedon reference?
speaking of which, formless oedon successfully impregnates an npc and said npc gives birth to his child. what if…
Maybe the Smoldering butterfly is for Messmer, and not Melina as theorized earlier
7:26 this is called "Ring of Miquella", and the pre-order bonus gesture references that (just like the base game pre-order bonus gesture with the Elden Ring)
Mayhaps Marika had children in the land of Shadows, Mesmer and Melina
Miyazaki said in an interview he is a child of Marika
@@-thebatman- right, I’m more referring to the order in which her children were born. As it is, we’ve been thinking that Melina is one of her youngest know children along with Miquela and Malenia… or is the GEQ or otherwise born in the Lands Between. But perhaps Malina was born before Marika’s conquest reached the Lands Between.
Wild speculation: Heck, Maybe Marika created Melina and Messmer without birthing either. The Erdtree and Shadow Tree were wildly overgrown Two Fingers. Elden John is some sort of representation of Messmer…. Other fun nonsense.
@@jennydeaf9O9I didn’t see the Hailiggtree, I’ll watch again. Foot could be mean base, base could mean foundation, foundation could be origin, origin of the Erdtree in the Lands Between could be the burning or deaths of the land of Shadow Erdtree and Parasite tree. Look, I’m not making a serious effort here, just a convoluted errant thought.
Melina is still one of the biggest enigmas around, given her association with Destined Death. Perhaps there was a time when she acted as the Gloam-Eyed Queen, having challenged Marika's authority by enacting the god hunt. Never having the heart to dispatch her daughter, Malekith would be sent in Marika's stead. Malekith would have seized the Rune of Death & by using its power against her, Melina would be robbed of her original body, but not her spirit, hence being "burned & bodiless". This exact scenario mirrors the fate of Godwyn & Ranni, meaning that the Rune of Death delivers both physical & spiritual deaths as the wielder demands. Through such a humbling defeat, Melina resigned herself to the role of Kindling Maiden as an act of atonement.
@@jefftheindianchief8279
holy flip i think u got it!
Considering elden ring characters use of old english, the word "realm" would refer to a different kingdom/land, so this would mean that the "realm of shadow" would just be the land that the shadowed erdtree resides in, instead of it being a completely different dimension. Also messmer's arms and legs, being as long as they are, remind me of the godskin apostle, with it's lanky frame which is mostly focused on it's arms and legs
As a theory, Messmer is the dream world Godwin.
-Godwin uses a sword spear
-Godwin fought the dragons, however they respected him and Fortisax stood by his side as a close friend even after death
My theory is that it is Godwin, however he lost his soul in the night of black knives, letting him forget his name and his ideals, becoming a twisted dream version of going down the route of depravity with dark flames and snakes.
I dont think godwyn is blasphemous and a traitor though (the snakes is a symbol of both of that),plus how did Godwyn become a blonde to a red head?
The beginning of this video goes so hard cause all I could focus on was the Bloodborne soundtrack.
Giving me emotional flashbacks to Gehrman the first hunter. Damn ye
Something I'd like to point out, the snakes on Messmer are very similar to Rya. On the description of Daedicar's Woe it states that Daedicar had many children. Could these snakes be her children like Rya?
I believe that one boss in the trailer riding a horse was base on a character design competition Vaatividya held that won 2nd place.
Messmer is totally distorted miquella. He has absorbed all of the forces not included in the erdtree order becoming the shadow of the erdtree.
miquella's title is the "unalloyed."
which means pure, free from
outter influence.
i like ur guess.
Just noticed that Messmer's design has his left eye sealed just like Melina and Ranni (her true form)
What made Rykard "blasphemous" was probably him taking after Messmer.
Mesmer is definitely the brother of Melania and Miquella. Marika had three children with each spouse apart from Radagon. 3 with Godfrey (Godwyn, Morgott, Mohg) 3 with Rennala (Radahn, Ranni, Rykard) but only 2 with Radagon (Melania, Miquella) so it would make sense that he is the exiled brother of the latter.
Just had an interesting theory that I’d like to throw out there regarding Miquella. As Elden Ring has a lot of religious inspired stuff, what if Miquella is inspired by ideas of the Holy Trinity from the Bible. God is often called 3 in 1 Father Son and Holy Ghost (God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit) what if there are 3 Miquellas in one. You could have Son/Jesus Miquella (who is young Miquella or possibly “Kind Miquella”, Holy Ghost Miquella or Saint Trina (the spirit at the end of the trailer), and Father Miquella, one we have yet to see. Maybe Cacoon Miquella is a version of Miquella who will be resurrected like Jesus was resurrected.
My theory is that Messmer is the first born child of Marika and Radagon making him Miquella and Melania's full brother. Maybe he was banished there by Marika for something he'd done in the past. And whatever it was was so horrible that he and the memories people had of him were wiped from/kept out of the land in between intentionally. I find it hard to believe they'd add a new character that has little to nothing to do with what actually going on in the story and was never mentioned in the main game. There has to be a connection in their lineage somewhere..
I think this too
The smoldering butterfly description said an eternally burning butterfly found near wildfires and elsewhere so we can rule out the butterfly
From the lore ive seen. Radagon even though he was marika didnt start coming around until the Carian Manor and Golden Order started fighting and him and Rennala fell for eachother. This is where marika became a god. I dont think she was able to be radagon yet
Also in the title (Check 1:11), the "O" in "Shadow of the Erdtree" is 2 dragons devouring each other. Could be another hint to Dragon Communion next to the eyes and armor.
So happy to see you making these kind of videos again, they've been seriously missed .
Messmer screams the Snake God Rykkard gave his body to. He is basically a mix of Malenia, Mogh and Snake God/Rykkard.
The smouldering butterfly is linked to melina as she is used as kindling.
Not at all confirmed, the smouldering butterfly makes way more sense to be messmer, apparently miyazaki said he is the child of marika as well.
I have a question for you all... Why are snakes considered traitors to the Erdtree? Well, I think we have our answer. Messmer is the "original" traitor. He was the proud and mighty son of Radagon, born with the power of flame due to his father being cursed by the Fire Giants. He was more than likely an Empyrean, but Messmer decided to betray the Erdtree for some reason, leading to his exile and expungement from the annals of history.
From then on, snakes were considered traitors to the Erdtree due to Messmer's connections to serpents... Also, unique tidbit of information... Messmer is not a _new_ character that was written into the world by Hidetaka Miyazaki. He has been stated to have been one of the characters that was originally created by G.R.R.M, which means that Miyazaki and the team deliberately made no mention of him throughout the game.
Interesting thought, no?
Im sure there is a story reason Messmer's name seemingly is wiped from all mention in the base game. If we are to assume he is a child of Marika I think of all her children that is the one she wanted to keep hidden, but why? I guess due to whatever he did. Which is wild considering Mogh and Morgot get to roam free and Malenia did her whole scarlett rot curse on the lands.
I do at least hope there is some good build up to him prior to the boss fight, I'd like to know more than just "cursed child banished for reasons we're not gonna explain."
The only issue with saying that Messmer is the originator of the rebellion against the Erdtree is that the gladiators were fighting the serpent in the arenas during the time of Godfrey before Radagon, so the timeline doesn't quite line up.
@@TSpoon823 That's why I'm still more than a little doubtful about this theory...
Edit: Another possibility is that Messmer has decided to take on the aspects of the enemies of the Golden Order as a way to spite Marika for abandoning him and leaving him to rot. I mean, he wields fire, he's garbed in snakes, even his eyes look like he's partaken in Dragon Communion.
@@WaterFlame3030 yeah. Something like that is possible. I think along with themes of Gold, Fire, and Sleep, the Crucible is central to this DLC too. I wonder if the serpent is a traitor to the Erdtree because it sided with the dragons and aspects of the crucible rather than seeking to evolve with the age of the Erdtree.
And maybe the shadow land is the main place where crucible worship remained. And maybe Messmer went that way and was banished as a result as he tried to overthrow the Erdtree through the power of the snake/dragon.
Could Messmer be mocking Marika for wanting a Tarnished to become Lord when we first hear him talk? After banishing him for his allegiance to the snake and crucible, why would Marika then turn around let a Tarnished, bereft of light, become Elden Lord?
My strongest opinion is that he is the empyrean sealed away LONG AGO, sealed in death. his "flames" start up
is similar the death runes left after the Maliketh fight. The godskins wield similar flame just white and we know thats a lack luster vision of the OG death. Miquella is going to either kill or release Messmer. We know miquella isn't a fighter like Ranni so we will be responsible for either or like a choice. I also felt it weird Melinna and Miquella being the only siblings not having another sibling and he resembles their closely. We never know exactly when the Deathe rebellion took place in comparison to the twins being born either. We just know that they appeared after Marika/Radagon became a god, and then again we dont know we that happened exactly. [E] The line of " All those stripped of grace meets death. Embraced by Messmer's flames" to me adds even more ties to Destine death. The Godskins have serpentine qualities at well.
Messmer is holding his ruins in his pre order picture and the other one is Miquella's.
Im just excited for the lore !!
UGH MAY CHOAS TAKE THE WORLD !!!
Is this a mirror world of our world ? It's screaming that for me
Geographically and
architecturally, no.
The bending of the
tree in the trailer is
identical to miquella's
haligtree.
It's a dreamscape that probably does mirror the real world yes.
I strongly feel like lore-wise this DLC will open up a lot more questions than it will provide answers
This isn't a DLC...
This looks like a full-on game.
here are my 2 messmer theories:
1. he is marika’s child but he’s so sinful that marika banished him. because miquelland takes in anyone who’s rejected by the world, it takes in messmer by accident. messmer now wreaks havoc in miquelland. because he’s been banished for so long, there are no traces of him in the lands between, there is no chair for him at the erdtree, and morgott doesn’t name drop him.
2. there is a painting in the trailer showing the guy who pulls out his spine (spine guy) and a woman holding her stomach standing next to him. i think that the woman here is trina, and she isn’t blonde but has red hair, like how marika’s hair turns red when turning into radagon, which is why the woman’s hair in the painting appears darker rather than brighter. they both are wearing trina-esque fashion, so i think the woman is probably trina.
messmer also refers to his execution as an embrace. all the demigod children in elden ring take after their parents in some way. malenia boasts her strength like how her father was renowned as a champion (even if it’s fake news), godrick is obsessed with strength because he wants to live up to godfrey’s name, rennala’s children all study some sort of effed up arcane arts, and miquella is known for being kind and merciful like his mother. messmer referring to his attack as a form of kindness hints towards the fact that he could be marika or miquella/trina’s son.
i think messmer is like pontiff sullyvahn. he’s born in miquelland, a kind of alternate dimension world, and learns all sorts of effed up things and then goes apeshit. he’s fighting us probably because he doesn’t think we’re good enough to be miquella’s consort, and he wants to avoid another mohg situation
Exactly what I was thinking, he’s about to be the pontiff of Elden ring
Also The lion like boss on this Trailer was Take reference from Creature name Barong from Indonesia Balinese Folklore, a lion like Creature who Guides the Atma/ Energy of living to Loka/The Underworld & Enemy of Ragda the witch.
You knocked it out of the park with this one. I respect the care you put into all of these videos. Very thorough and even if some thing’s turn out to be incorrect, the video was very entertaining 🤙🏼
Insert Charlie meme: Norse mythology may be the key for a lot of the lore. One giant example: Yggdrasil looks a lot like the Erd tree. Shadow of the Erd tree looks a lot like the roots. I.e. the roots of the Golden Order. At the roots of Yggdrasil is Nidhogg the serpent dragon Or Messmer. Everything that is considered blasphemous to the Erd tree lives at the roots of the Erd tree.
Messner must be Radagon's child, given his red hair
Miyazaki: "here's the DLC."
Us: "Thou shall be forgiven."
Did I just see the holy tree wings as a ash of war? FINALLY !
The first thing I thought when I saw Messmer is "Drake Knight"
Guys Miquella’s corpse in Mogh’s palace is wearing an engagement ring with a two headed serpents which is Messmer’s symbol. But that ring was giving to him by Mogh. I wonder what’s the connection?
It’s very likely that Mesmer is yet another demigod. And is standing against miquella and his quest having divulged himself of the golden lineage, one which messmer idolized despite being shunned and hidden in the shadow of said grace
I wonder if this is the "unwanted and soulless demigod child" some of the ghosts mentioned in the main story. Also, we know Miquella was working towards restoring soul of Godwyn, so perhaps he was also trying to restore this Messmir as well? Or perhaps Messmir is related to Godwyn in some way?
Messmer looks like Elden Ring's Soul of Cinder. Containing various elements possessed by the various other bosses.
I honestly thought that was Miquella in his older body in the shadow realm
Honestly I thought that messmer was just Miquella after the blood cocoon
I heard someone say that messmer is actually the one in the cocoon in mohgs arena and now I can’t stop thinking it’s right
An issue with the beginning and of the video is that Fromsoft DLC should always be looked with the eyes of a new adventure.
Gael wasn’t mentioned before the DLC.
And their endings are self contained, even DS2’s new ending doesn’t require the anti-hollow crown to be completed.
messmer couldnt have been involved in the moutain top cause he wouldnt have been born yet. he is the child of marika and radegon
I mean, it's confirmed that he's Marika's child, but we don't necessarily know who the father is. Just because his hair is red isn't definitive proof of anything, it could just be because of his dragon magic or something
And radagon is Marika so he could possibly be the son of radagon and someone else
@@bradengoldsberry then this only means that radagon hit it off with egle the immortal serpent.
One thing I noticed is that his title is the same as Vlad the Impalers. Vlad has many myths about him, such as being the source of the story’s of Dracula.
But one thing that I would like to bring up is the title of his father which was dragon. And if you look at Messmer’s eyes they look like dragon eyes.
Now it’s possible that this means Messmer has partaken in dragon communion, this wouldn’t surprise me. It’s also possible that his father could be a dragon, though this seems a bit less likely.
But one theory that probably isn’t true is, maybe Messmer did something akin to dragon communion but with a Serpent? I don’t really know what this would entail but it sure would be interesting.
Or maybe Messmer will just have a final phase where he turns into some kind of vampiric dragon, idk.
Messmer's spear has the same design as Fire Monk spear decorations in their camps! Also the tip of the spear reminds of flame, just like the weapon held by the bigger Fire Monks!
Hmmm this is interesting to note, Messmer has dragon symbolism as well as the snakes which is which might link him the the dragon cult in the capital as well. I'm almost wondering if he was the general leading the siege on the capital that had the huge dragon battle in the middle of the city. There's all kinds of lore around the earlier times in the history of the Lands Between in reference to dragons and he seems linked in some way to that.
One other thing that is striking to me is his name "Messmer, the Impailer". Could this be in reference the spear impailed in Marika's side when we see her at the end of the game? If so why is that significant? One of my theories around this is that it may be a type of curse that rendered Marika unable to birth more demi god children. Thus making the possibility of obtaining the throne of Elden Lord and even godhood (replacing her) an easier task for those looking to conquer the Lands Between from the Golden Order. This Messmer guy may be a previously unmentioned Third child of Marika and Radagon with Empyrean status as well. Due to these events in the history prior to the game it seems he succeeded in his namesake title of "Impailer" but failed in his siege attempt on the capital and may have been banished to this shadow realm seen in the DLC for his crimes against the Erdtree and the Golden Order. Just some interesting thoughts 😊👍
I think messmer is actually a ‘good guy’ but as probably the primary ‘shadow of the erdtree’ being personified into him, I’m guessing he’s the one who does the golden orders dirty work &/or provides some sort of great power & has been locked away, used as a battery….ORRR all the bad qualities the golden order needs to rule but shoved down into another realm
So there are other demigods that we haven’t seen before
In regards to the eclipse video, and Godwyns lack of soul. 4:29 here, the bit about Miquella divesting his flesh, potentially to escape Mogh or whatever to otherwise travel to the shadow lands in his soul form. And the eclipse theory being to resurrect (renew, rebirth) Godwyn, perhaps souls can travel to this land when they are severed from flesh (Godwyn may be here too), or perhaps Miquella found another way to do this on his own, and will use his own soul to make Godwyn whole again (rebirth) and at the same time achieving his goal of growing into an adult from an eternal child. Miquella would've looked up to Godwyn in some way I'm sure, as a (seemingly) pure being without flaws, and also perhaps had some non-insidious jealousy of that flawlessness, and in his plan to rebirth himself found a way to simultaneously resurrect godwyn, essentially the two becoming the same being. Which also has parallels to Marika/Radagon.
due to his connection with smoldering butterflies which relates him to malenia and miquella and the fact that the ghost outside of the impalers catacombs talking about a lost sibling it feels all from confirmed that he’s a son of marika and radagon, which makes him empyrean, which brings up the terrifying idea of him hosting an outer being on top of all the abilities he already has
imagine he’s a reoccurring enemy that changes up and becomes more difficult every encounter, his last fight being a 3 phase one… Keeping him alive for the story and progression of the tarnished
3:40 alot of people don’t seem to look closely but if I'm not mistaken, that's part of Melinas dress, but of course we don't get a full picture so it could be anything. I just think that Melina might be hunting us down or we might get more on her later in the DLC
I remember the effort Miquella put in to try to revive Godwyn and when I think about Miquella going into some land of dreams to see his fallen Lord, I immediately think of Godwyn's forever death through living deep in dreams, Messmer is probably a new character to us as most FromSoftware Dlcs are where we always think the dlc is gonna explain lore, but it only does so by adding more puzzle pieces. Since he is tied to the rune of death and there is a huge theme in this game about characters having alter-egos or new forms I would not be suprised if he was some new form of Godwyn
I love that lore videos are coming out before the DLC has released. These games are amazing
I can’t wait for the repeating crossbow we see in the trailer, even though it isn’t very good, I love Gael’s auto crossbow in ds3 and I can’t wait to use one in Elden ring
I think it makes the most sense for Messmer to just be Messmer and not something that was hidden within plain sight. Maybe hidden in some item description, but here’s why I say that. George RR Martin wrote the mythos. Miyazaki made a Dark Souls game with Dark Souls storytelling based off that mythos. As someone who hardly knows these things, I think something along the lines of an entire mythos will never “get justice” in a Souls game. Before anyone let FromSoft breathe, there was all these assumptions. Messmer was not one of those assumptions. Honestly, there’s probably another character that’s like Messmer if we ever get to read what Martin wrote. The dlc won’t give us the rest of the answers but i guess my point is that we never had them (obviously). This is a long comment and probably looks like a rant but yes it’s fun to speculate. Great video
The lenght of Messmers Arm fits the lenght of that in Moghwyn room more than Miquellas arm
I've recently went back and just kinda doing more exploring. Some areas I said "f that" (specifically the worm face area in altas plateau lol). But now that I'm level 220 😅 I walk around like the final boss just unphased lmao.
Anyways I've found at least 5-6 new items and 2-3 areas I never discovered. I knew that the lightning ram ashe of war existed... I just never got it myself. Totally missed that whole area on top by the capital entrance. Just blows my mind every time I discover a new item 200 hours into the game.
The feeling you get on your first playthrough is simply unmatched by anything else, especially modern. Its like a great movie where I wish I could delete my brains save file and replay it again and again 😂.. Truly just a masterpiece of a game.
From what I have gathered: Messmer is Elden Ring's Nameless King. He's always been apart of the story, and the dlc will tell us why he isn't in the legends of the Erdtree.
Crazy idea, Messmer is a child of Marika from before she became the vassal of the Greater Will/Golden Order when she was still just a regular mortal, and he embraced a number of forbidden powers so as to keep up and aid her but then had to be hidden away for some reason.
This could set him up as a foil to the Tarnished; a grab bag of different powers and rising above his lowly origins, claiming a great rune(s) and a throne.
A little cool detail is that one of the attacks we see Mesmer does him impaling his spear into the ground and thrusting it to make some other spears poke up from the ground is actually the blasphemous version of the attack we get to use as an ash of war in the cleanrot spear which is a holy weapon.
Now imagine messmer is just the face of the DLC and the penultimate boss and there’s something even more terrifying after him
We `bout to get sucked into a painting again aren`t we
The great rune could relate to the sap from the tree dripping into that round thing behind the big castle
Guys, I found out who he is. He is Vlad.
You see lava and mechanical devices handling lava in the trailer (1:07). Maybe he was an ally of Marika but became friends with Rykard and rebelled as a result. The snake imagery backs this up, too.
Alternatively, he's a twisted shadow of Miquella created by Mogh's interference. Considering the narration telling us thst those who lose grace will face him it's a bit of a long shot, but I can't shake the idea that he only exists in Miquella's mind. He's the blood of Mogh slowly taking Miquella over. There are references to blood in the narration. He uses fire like Mogh and his outfit resembles Mogh's. Also, why is it Miquella specifically who is guiding us?
I have a theory: Mesmer is the son of Queen Marika and Mesmer wanted to burn the erd tree so he seeked out the giants flame that never stops burning and while doing this impaled all the giants. When Mesmer finally stole a piece of the giants flame he went to the erd tree and tried to burn it which is why some of the branches at the erd tree are burned. So Queen Marika bound and imprisoned Mesmer in the shadow realm and he has been trying to get back ever since. This could explain why he has flame as weapon and why it’s so powerful because he stole a piece from the giants flame. Also at the gracelocation before Godfrey boss fight there is a throne that has a almost like a veil surrounding it and that same throne and veil looks exactly like the erd tree in the DLC trailer, which could mean only thing the veil or curtain looking thing that surround the erd tree in the trailer is a veil placed over the shadow realm to imprison Mesmer this would explain why it’s called the “shadow realm” because it is the veil is causing a shadow and in that shadow the shadow realm is kept safe. Also like I said before it’s very interesting that at the grave location before Godfrey fight looks exactly like how the wrd tree looks in the dlc trailer, perhaps that seat and room was Mesmers throne and room and queen Marika copied the veil that surrounds the seat in the grace location room as a way to insult and belittle Mesmer because he betrayed queen Marika his mother. Please let me know your thoughts
Glad I'm not the only one who thought messmer and miquella mightve been the same.
I’m getting Hela from Thor: Ragnarok vibes.
Theory time: when Marika arrived in the land of shadow/lands between, she and Mesmer destroyed all opposition to her. But then as Marika moved into her new age she cast her violent child aside or left them in the Land of Shadow to start her Golden Order. He still seems somewhat loyal to her from his voice line, but that might not be the case. Would also make sense that Miquella, the golden son, would return to challenge this darker aspect of the Golden Order before beginning his new age.
The old guy in the painting is like that old guy in the statue with the branch.
Messmer is heavily inspired by Satan from "Paradise Lost Poem" by Milton.
He is depicted sitting on throne with giant tree behind (Tree of knowledge reference) and the snake on his spear reminds a lot on snake from Eden with Adam and Eve on each side.
Messmer was likely an enemy of the golden order well before the shattering. If that’s the case then Messmer was an issue while Malekith was still active in the setting. It’s possible that Marika didn’t just have Malekith kill him because Messmer was just too strong which is why he was sealed in the land of shadow. This is terrifying from a lore perspective as every demigod is said to be kept in line by Malekith’s power except for Messmer apparently