Just found your channel after my friend Matt on his EGSource channel tested your ToneX captures. Needless to say he loved them and mentioned that FOH guys said they needed the least EQ changes out of all that he's used. Having just bought two ToneX Ones, man these things are incredible and make amp hunting so much fun! Add to that the fact that we both play Duesenberg Starplayer TVs, what's not to like? Love your heart and your skills, blessings and keep going strong!
In a mix the difference will never be heard. Hell, in a blindfold test with $1200 cans on most people would have an incredibly hard time hearing the difference.
You're so correct. One step further... any difference heard I'm sure people cannot determine which is better! Hearing a difference is one thing (maybe possible though irrelevant). Believing something sounds better - next to impossible.
Thanks for the effort on this! Very valuable info on the latency difference in particular. Extremely important for those who want to go stereo or dual mono, wet/dry with two pedals. This means either 2x ONE or 2x normal ToneX pedal, or the tone will suffer.
Somehow I had this feeling that the ONE will be the slightly faster one. I will say again, I'm rather amazed how they crammed all of that inside a 1590A enclosure, after whatever space was left after the jacks switches and pots, and also maintain a humble price.
Perfect. That is the correct way to compare 2 waveforms... You couldnt have asked for a better result, the final test was nearly silent... They sounded identical to my ear.
Thanks for answering the one burning question I had about this little pedal. I sold my big box Tonex not long ago and missed it almost instantly, but then this little dynamo showed up on the market and it's perfect for my needs. And less expensive. This is all I needed to know before pulling the trigger on it.
Bro. This is important to know from the standpoint of dual pedal setups. That 1/4 ms difference is enough to drive most players crazy. Good to know that you "probably" would not want to mix Tonex with TOne! Thanks for making this!
@@ZachBrobstMusicYep! Although I’m still gonna argue the opposite-use the big box for dirt pedals (since you can load in tons of them, you can contol them with midi, and there are a few more volume controls on the big box which may come in handy for drives). But to each his own!
@@ZachBrobstMusic May depend on a hardware thing like A/D/A conversion? That's above my pay grade haha. But I'm not sure they'd want to INcrease the latency on the TX1 just to match the Big Box. Not sure how it all works.
It makes sense that the 0.25 msec difference in latency results in you hearing "comb filtering" when you add the two signals together. However, when using two tonex devices in a dual amp setup where one amp is panned full right and one full left, I don't think the 0.25 msec difference should not be an issue. You get the same effect if you are listening 3 inches closer to one of the monitors. (Sound travels about 1 foot in 1 msec.)
Thank you so much for the test! Tonex ONE was a bit louder in your test, so I'm 99.9% sure that they are identical in terms of the processing. It's surprising that ONE has the smaller latency, it should be the other way around, but it's fine with me, as I think I'm going to purchase it :)
Well, to be fair, the clip where I "interrupted" the main video was a different thing. When I compared the Big Box TONEX and TONEX ONE they were the exact same volume. However, as I mentioned, they weren't likely the EXACT same gain level because it's impossible to match the input trim between the two units.
Yeah I feel ya. At 3:27 though it’s very very close. But there’s no argument here, I admitted there has to be some kind of difference which is why it wouldn’t cancel completely. We’re on the same page 🤙🏼
It is strange for the little guy to have less latency. Far beyond the scope of this video, but I'd imagine the big box has some additional processing that takes a hair longer. I'd bet they use identical chips and ad converters.
I did load two identical presets on both devices. The problem isn’t the Gain control itself, the problem is the “Input Trim” control which you can’t control with the software and is near impossible to match perfectly on the two units because of how they’re made.
Very interesting results! When testing the latency, did you try swapping the outputs from the buffered splitter to see if the splitter introduced any latency?
I didn't, although I'd be more than shocked if there was any latency between different outputs of a splitter. However, IK Multimedia subsequently released an update for the big box ToneX to allow the latency to be the same as the ToneX One. So they also knew about the difference and, thankfully, were able to fix it!
It's a fun little gadget for sure and very usable for most applications, it's a bit like never mind the quality, feel the width when tailoring tones etc, I prefer to consider the aspect as pick-up/dynamic response time instead in my camp, it varies yet again depending on which particular guitar is being used at the time too...including obviously the players technique and the song style/genre etc...
Appreciate the hard work. Unfortunately the form factor won't do it for me. I wish IK had made it regular pedal size with 2 foot switches. Having only two patches readily available is a bummer.
Great content. Congratulations and thank you very much for sharing it! Did you try normalizing both audios to check if the phase cancelling gets to 100%?
Thank you! But I don’t imagine normalization would even cancel them 100%. Because no matter how hard I try, there will always be a gain discrepancy because of the input trim difference.
I would've liked to see your test tone recorded out of your interface and back in so that we can really see what the latency of the pedals are, because unless you tried to compensate, wouldn't that 3ms include the roundtrip latency of the D/A-A/D conversion on your interface? but good job highlighting the latency between the 2 models! maybe instead of "1/4/ of a ms" you could've shown the number of samples? That's how i measure when it's in the sub ms
Thanks for this. I was considering picking up the Tonex One and was curious as to the sound relative to the big box and the latency. It's a buy for me.
Great vid. On my IEMs I thought I could hear a tad bit more clarity from the big box unit. But in a mix no one will know at all and the difference could just be down to the input gain variance or slight variance in the internals as I am guessing a different chipset/DSP is being used . Who knows. Anyway great video
Maybe I missed it, but it seems like you didn't adjust the gain to have the same volumes. Only in this way you can understand if the two generated waveforms are similar (apart from the volume) and obtain the highest cancellation.
If the Tonex one was louder, could that account for part of the quicker response? Would be good to see multiple Tonex Ones to see if there's any component variation
@@thetoneshepherd Possibly a bad explanation , I'm wondering if there should be some ramping, given that they're trying to emulate the way a valve amp 'blooms'
@@roscius6204 I see what you mean, but these are the same profile. So if one “blooms” then the other would as well. The plain fact is, the big box version has slightly more latency due to the differences in circuitry, conversion, signal flow, etc.
Hi, great vid, thanks.. i wonder if i can record (via usb) two tracks simultaneously with tonex one? one being the clean di signal, and the other being processed.. the pedal version does it i guess but the small one, i cant be sure.. thanks
I'd consider tonex one if it was more like boss ir-2 with tiny screen for preset numbers, effects loop (so you can connect other pedals to it and hear them when playing through headphones or when recording via USB), separate headphones output.
That’s lot of features to pack in this already really small enclosure. And I’ve always been curious why effects loops are so important to folks. Genuine question-what does an FX loop do that putting the effects before or after the amps can’t do?
I currently have a Big Tonex and was hoping to add on a Tonex One to my rig to get stereo capabilities. Is the latency difference a big issue even when using different amp captures (assuming that I can control phase inversion issues on my line isolator box)?
So one of your conclusions: For stereo, use the same pedal (2 Tonex’s -or- 2 Tonex One’s) … or, does mixing two different platforms not really matter as far as comb filtering… does this indicate a real need for a Full Stereo pedal in the future?
Does this mean my big tonex and tonex one together would sound better if paired together with the same model tonex? I have started playing with both models in stereo and it sounds good to me but would like to know if it would sound better. Thanks for the video!!
Actually, in my opinion, it would be the opposite. It would sound a little bit better if they were different amps. The same exact amp would have a little bit of comb filtering… But again, that's assuming that you summed them to mono which doesn't happen very often. Keeping any combination of amps hard panned will likely be fine.
Dude! Great comparison.. Thanks for taking the time not just offer an opinion but actually show the process and clear explanation how good this unit is! Really appreciated
I didn't see where you accounted for the latency of your computer interface and it did not look like the pedals were being used as an aggregate interface themselves (If I missed this please forgive this comment). That would affect the overall latency. Also, unless they are using the exact same AD/DA chips, that will affect both latency AND phase cancellation of the pedals when compared to each other. Thanks for the test.
The latency of the interface doesn’t matter in this test because I simply lined up a dry through signal with a signal from the Tonex and started the test where the dry signal started. Does that make sense? May not be explaining that properly. But the interface delay is not a factor in this case.
@@thetoneshepherd Right but didnt the dry signal have to go out of the computer and into the Tonex (and then back into the computer)? I guess a better question is: where is the dry signal coming from that goes into the Tonex? Are you splitting the dry signal before going into both? Sorry for being obtuse...just trying to understand the signal flow.
But 1. Can you drop the same software presets on the TONEX ONE from the app? 2. On the TONEX ONE can you have those 20 slots on the dial be A/B per slot, giving you a total of 40 amps to use live?
Hello, I'm using your tones well. I also ordered when ToneX One came out this time, but if there is one Big Box ToneX and one ToneX One, how will you use it? The pedal I have now is Big Box ToneX, hx stomp!
@@thetoneshepherd And do you still use the input trim in 8.5 dB? In the first question, would it be okay to dual amplifier the Big Box and ToneX One? The rest of the effectors use hx stomp! Thank you!!
Yes, Input Trim is still at 8.5. There's a section in my other video where I show the settings on the TONEX ONE that compare to the Big Box. This link should take you right there ruclips.net/video/BgH6VQWgj5Y/видео.html&si=Z9QhidTK6BrbMRU6
And you could use the ONE and big box for stereo amps but I would caution you that unless they're hard panned and/or using different captures, they'll have comb filtering when run in mono.
No I don’t think so. You may need to change it depending on if you’re using it as a drive pedal or amp (maybe), but it’s meant to be a “set and forget” control. You can adjust the gain on the individual presets to compensate for a high or low trim setting.
I redid the test with a sine wave. Pretty much the same issue. It was just as easy/hard to align them but with the same issue that I can’t get the input trim on each unit exactly the same
@@thetoneshepherd The input trim is a nonissue if the signals can be recorded. Any daw will permit extremely fine level control to close the gap when close.
I’m not sure you’re completely understanding the issue. The issue is not how hard it is to line up the two wave forms. The issue is, in order for a null test to work perfectly, both pedals would have to have the exact same gain and volume settings. ANY variation in gain, volume, tone or alignment would make the null test to still reveal some audio. But since the input trims are impossible to match perfectly, you’ll always have a variation on Gain.
@@thetoneshepherd I understand the issue perfectly. The differences are not merely time & level (easy things to null) but also saturation, as fiendishly difficult as it gets to make equivalent. I was offering advice for the easy stuff. Sorry I wasn’t clearer. A lot can be deduced from the null test even when it achieves nothing even close to a null. I know you’re aware of that. I appreciate your efforts and you can rest assured I am not doubting you when I offer ideas. All the best.
Leo Gibson for sure will have a video soon with a detailed null test, Thanks for testing this VERY important thing that most reviewer's completely missed, BTW, did you tried to level match the files via peak normalization?, that should do better as both are supposed to be playing the same capture, maybe do the same test with 2 big ToneX to eliminate any variability on cables or other stuff, that should cancel completely
We're getting into cork sniffing and debating how many angels can you fit on the head of a pin. I own both and are used strictly as live into rack gear, tube power amps and cabs... I can't tell the difference between the two and "real amps" anymore. Beyond impressed
Man... If they had added spdif to either box and given us 48k 24 bit, we could patch this digitally into the Fractal stuff to get profiling into the Fractal. I did this with my OG Kemper... And the converters (or whatever) in th Fractal sounded better than the Kemper's for whatever reason. The Kemper player also doesn't have Spdif. Only th big units do. What a bummer.
Using a Universal Audio Sphere DLX into an Apollo x8p interface. Love that this mic can model many different other mics. I typically set it up to model the Senheiser 416 since I have and love that mic for voice over stuff.
Off topic. But can you enable/disable a stomp pedal that is within a preset? Like if my presets chain has a tube screamer in front, can I disable enable it? Or is that only for purely stomp captures using the tonex one as a stomp box? Thanks.
No, you’d have to make two different captures, one with the TS in front and one with it off. Does that make sense? No way to separate the pedal from the amp within a preset.
@@thetoneshepherd Yep makes sense. And I found my answer in watching many other videos, it was a major complaint... I have ZERO AMPS, so I wouldn't be capturing at all. I've been a home hobbyist forever and have been amp sim vst only for over 20 years. This would mean if I wanted a 5150 with and without an overdrive in front, I'd have to find 2 identical with and without overdrive. It's just a technical question, as I always use an overdrive, so not an issue. But if there is no latency when switching presets, doesn't seem like a big issue.
I thought the ToneX One sounded ever so slightly louder, but sonically it sounded the same to me. Very nice job. I might have to get one of those little fckrs! lol
@@thetoneshepherd It was the slightest amount. Almost unnticeable. And I definitely don't mean it as a criticism, just offering up what I heard. The test was great. I would definitely buy that little box to extend my toolkit for recording.
I CAN hear it. Neither bad. Just slightly different. Will anybody in the audience hear it or care? 98% wont hear it or care. Im just using it in a studio anyway. Ive gotten used to latency, playing through the DAW. You just get used to it. Ive beennusing Amplitube since the beginn8ng and now adde Tonex max to it and, yeah I dig it. In the studio. Live. I use my amp and a Boss core.
Interesting! I know a few of y’all have been saying you can hear a difference and I totally believe you do…but my ears are too dull to hear the difference haha
Yeah…I’m not so sure about that. Everyone is most certainly entitled to their own interpretation of the comparison, but spending three weeks with the units, I literally can’t tell any difference. And the null test was enough to confirm that assessment. @justmehere6094
@@thetoneshepherd Just basing it off the beginning of your video on the a/b part. Could be settings related, really anything/ I do think the 'big' pedal will last longer. Tonex 1 will have to use a lot of SMTs and micro componants, which simply don't last as long.
I like most of the newer modern units too, but it would take a stick of dynamite to convince me that I'm not already killing the pig with my GT-1 and original FA-1 attached properly already in the right cabs as is.
Yes…kind of. The problem is they’re also delayed from each other so I’d have to somehow find a way to delay the TONEX ONE around .25ms and THEN do the gain sweep. Not really sure how to do the former accurately.
Even if your a die hard gotta have Marshall stack at a gig the Tonex One is an amazing back up amp and cheap. Just have it in your case. It probably fits in your pocket. But it sounds so good so why not put on your pedal board and call it a day. What a time to be a guitar player it just gets better and better. Ah but I still have all my 100 watt Marshalls and 4x12s you'll have to take them from my dead hands lol
What you are hearing when they are out of phase is the difference signal. So, in theory, the only thing you are hearing is the difference between the two. That would indicate that they aren't even close to being the same. 😉 In fairness if there was a latency difference or a volume difference that would make the comparison invalid purely as a signal difference.
Correct…all of which was stated in the video, yeah? 🤷🏻♂️ Did you watch until the end? There was barely any signal once I lined them up correctly and reversed polarity.
Concurred. The final test was inaudible. That surprises me, cause I'd expect things like distortion to be time based, meaning they begin a modulation process at the start and would even be different using the same hardware or plugin.... It would take more nerdiness to investigate such a phenomenon... But great testing methodology and great video.
@@thetoneshepherd Yes I did. By eliminating the latency you virtually eliminated it. I would expect if you could perfectly match the output it would be better. It's entirely likely though that signal path and hardware, specifically in the analog stages, would also make a difference.
Until you want a affordable way to use profiles live use. Namm got no affordable good working options. Difference is so small except when you hone in on, one guitar track on headphones, isolates. Like with a microscope. So dumb.
I have seen 24,000 soyface tonex videos over the last few years comparing them by "use your ears bro!". Which is sadly usually the standard for soyface guru reviews and comparisons. See any video about the McGurk effect to see why that practice is Peak Doi
Someone who actually did a null test! CANNOT BE A GUITAR RUclipsR!!!! If you aren't anti science, nobody in the guitar world will take you seriously. You and Jim Lil rule!
@@thetoneshepherd don't let them hear you say that! I did a few audio mythbusting shows with Ethan Whiner on Glenn Fricker's channel and man, the amount of crap that comes to my real life businesses over it was nuts.
This is actually one of the best test on this. Great job
Thanks!
Just found your channel after my friend Matt on his EGSource channel tested your ToneX captures. Needless to say he loved them and mentioned that FOH guys said they needed the least EQ changes out of all that he's used. Having just bought two ToneX Ones, man these things are incredible and make amp hunting so much fun! Add to that the fact that we both play Duesenberg Starplayer TVs, what's not to like? Love your heart and your skills, blessings and keep going strong!
Dude that's so encouraging!! Can't tell you how much that means!
Awesome job man!! Thank you for the full dive here!
No problem 👍
In a mix the difference will never be heard. Hell, in a blindfold test with $1200 cans on most people would have an incredibly hard time hearing the difference.
Fact! These things rule!
You're so correct. One step further... any difference heard I'm sure people cannot determine which is better! Hearing a difference is one thing (maybe possible though irrelevant). Believing something sounds better - next to impossible.
Thanks for the effort on this! Very valuable info on the latency difference in particular. Extremely important for those who want to go stereo or dual mono, wet/dry with two pedals. This means either 2x ONE or 2x normal ToneX pedal, or the tone will suffer.
Thanks AA! Appreciate that!
Great, and and very informative video. Thank you so much.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you so much for doing this.
My pleasure!
Somehow I had this feeling that the ONE will be the slightly faster one. I will say again, I'm rather amazed how they crammed all of that inside a 1590A enclosure, after whatever space was left after the jacks switches and pots, and also maintain a humble price.
So amazing right!?
Perfect. That is the correct way to compare 2 waveforms... You couldnt have asked for a better result, the final test was nearly silent... They sounded identical to my ear.
100%
Thanks for answering the one burning question I had about this little pedal. I sold my big box Tonex not long ago and missed it almost instantly, but then this little dynamo showed up on the market and it's perfect for my needs. And less expensive. This is all I needed to know before pulling the trigger on it.
Sweeet!! Super glad this helped you snag a little one!
Well done. First time seeing one of your videos, and I enjoyed you test/comparison of the devices. Will be watching more of your videos. Thanks
Thanks a ton! Glad you liked it
Bro. This is important to know from the standpoint of dual pedal setups. That 1/4 ms difference is enough to drive most players crazy. Good to know that you "probably" would not want to mix Tonex with TOne! Thanks for making this!
Yep! Exactly! Would be best to pair two of like kinds 🤙🏼
@@thetoneshepherd how about using the TONEX One as a stomp box and the TONEX as your amp?
@@ZachBrobstMusicYep! Although I’m still gonna argue the opposite-use the big box for dirt pedals (since you can load in tons of them, you can contol them with midi, and there are a few more volume controls on the big box which may come in handy for drives). But to each his own!
@pinstripe_pedals - couldn't this be fixed via firmware update though?
@@ZachBrobstMusic May depend on a hardware thing like A/D/A conversion? That's above my pay grade haha. But I'm not sure they'd want to INcrease the latency on the TX1 just to match the Big Box. Not sure how it all works.
It makes sense that the 0.25 msec difference in latency results in you hearing "comb filtering" when you add the two signals together. However, when using two tonex devices in a dual amp setup where one amp is panned full right and one full left, I don't think the 0.25 msec difference should not be an issue. You get the same effect if you are listening 3 inches closer to one of the monitors. (Sound travels about 1 foot in 1 msec.)
That’s correct Mitchell. Likely not noticeable when hard panned. And also, likely less noticeable still with different amps on each side.
Thank you so much for the test! Tonex ONE was a bit louder in your test, so I'm 99.9% sure that they are identical in terms of the processing. It's surprising that ONE has the smaller latency, it should be the other way around, but it's fine with me, as I think I'm going to purchase it :)
Well, to be fair, the clip where I "interrupted" the main video was a different thing. When I compared the Big Box TONEX and TONEX ONE they were the exact same volume. However, as I mentioned, they weren't likely the EXACT same gain level because it's impossible to match the input trim between the two units.
@@thetoneshepherd I'm talking about AB here 2:24. ONE is tad louder. You can even see it on the meters.
Yeah I feel ya. At 3:27 though it’s very very close. But there’s no argument here, I admitted there has to be some kind of difference which is why it wouldn’t cancel completely. We’re on the same page 🤙🏼
You could have read the levels at a cursor point for both waveforms, making it more nerdy lol. But on the meter they looked identical.
It is strange for the little guy to have less latency. Far beyond the scope of this video, but I'd imagine the big box has some additional processing that takes a hair longer. I'd bet they use identical chips and ad converters.
Honest question: Why not use the software program to perfectly match their volume/gain instead of the knobs?
I did load two identical presets on both devices. The problem isn’t the Gain control itself, the problem is the “Input Trim” control which you can’t control with the software and is near impossible to match perfectly on the two units because of how they’re made.
wow! amazing cientific tests! Any mini second of delay makes difference for me that will put the tonex one in the loop of my HX Stomp! Many thanks!
Thanks! And yes, putting this in the loop of an HX Stomp is a great option!
Awesome video man! I have one arriving today
So rad!! Enjoy!
@@thetoneshepherd thanks man!
Very interesting results!
When testing the latency, did you try swapping the outputs from the buffered splitter to see if the splitter introduced any latency?
I didn't, although I'd be more than shocked if there was any latency between different outputs of a splitter. However, IK Multimedia subsequently released an update for the big box ToneX to allow the latency to be the same as the ToneX One. So they also knew about the difference and, thankfully, were able to fix it!
OUTSTANDING video. Just what I needed. Thank you.
Awesome!
Hey man this was so good of a video I also checked your other videos and subscribed. Good job!
Sincerely appreciated bro!! 🙏🏼
It's a fun little gadget for sure and very usable for most applications, it's a bit like never mind the quality, feel the width when tailoring tones etc, I prefer to consider the aspect as pick-up/dynamic response time instead in my camp, it varies yet again depending on which particular guitar is being used at the time too...including obviously the players technique and the song style/genre etc...
Lots of factors for every guitarist no doubt.
Hey thanks for a very neat video. I found it interesting even though I don’t use modelers. Looking forward to checking out more of your stuff!
Love it! Thanks!
Appreciate the hard work. Unfortunately the form factor won't do it for me. I wish IK had made it regular pedal size with 2 foot switches. Having only two patches readily available is a bummer.
You can have three if you load up browse mode. Or you can get the big box version 🤙🏼
Great content. Congratulations and thank you very much for sharing it!
Did you try normalizing both audios to check if the phase cancelling gets to 100%?
Thank you! But I don’t imagine normalization would even cancel them 100%. Because no matter how hard I try, there will always be a gain discrepancy because of the input trim difference.
Thanks for the reply.
Your test already proved the signal is practically identical. 🏆🔥🙏🏻
I would've liked to see your test tone recorded out of your interface and back in so that we can really see what the latency of the pedals are, because unless you tried to compensate, wouldn't that 3ms include the roundtrip latency of the D/A-A/D conversion on your interface? but good job highlighting the latency between the 2 models! maybe instead of "1/4/ of a ms" you could've shown the number of samples? That's how i measure when it's in the sub ms
I could have done all that, but then that wouldn’t have left any room for the real geeks to do their thing on RUclips. Gotta share the love. 😂
Thanks for this. I was considering picking up the Tonex One and was curious as to the sound relative to the big box and the latency. It's a buy for me.
For sure!! Glad it helped clarify that for ya
Great vid.
On my IEMs I thought I could hear a tad bit more clarity from the big box unit. But in a mix no one will know at all and the difference could just be down to the input gain variance or slight variance in the internals as I am guessing a different chipset/DSP is being used . Who knows. Anyway great video
The Input trim is a big factor in how much headroom and perceived clarity there is on a capture so that could be it.
Brilliant, great comparison
Thanks Oliver! Glad you liked it
Maybe I missed it, but it seems like you didn't adjust the gain to have the same volumes. Only in this way you can understand if the two generated waveforms are similar (apart from the volume) and obtain the highest cancellation.
I addressed that issue. It’s impossible to perfectly match the Gain because of the Input Trim issue.
If the Tonex one was louder, could that account for part of the quicker response?
Would be good to see multiple Tonex Ones to see if there's any component variation
Volume doesn’t affect speed of signal. Plus, the volumes were nearly identical.
@@thetoneshepherd Possibly a bad explanation , I'm wondering if there should be some ramping, given that they're trying to emulate the way a valve amp 'blooms'
@@roscius6204 I see what you mean, but these are the same profile. So if one “blooms” then the other would as well. The plain fact is, the big box version has slightly more latency due to the differences in circuitry, conversion, signal flow, etc.
@@thetoneshepherd Thanks, that makes sense.
Could the latency be partially related to different patch cables, even if the same length? Very good comparison!
I’ve done the test a couple times with different cables. Same result
Hi, great vid, thanks.. i wonder if i can record (via usb) two tracks simultaneously with tonex one? one being the clean di signal, and the other being processed.. the pedal version does it i guess but the small one, i cant be sure.. thanks
Thanks! Unfortunately, I don’t think you can
I'd consider tonex one if it was more like boss ir-2 with tiny screen for preset numbers, effects loop (so you can connect other pedals to it and hear them when playing through headphones or when recording via USB), separate headphones output.
That’s lot of features to pack in this already really small enclosure. And I’ve always been curious why effects loops are so important to folks. Genuine question-what does an FX loop do that putting the effects before or after the amps can’t do?
I like the black one better.
Me TOO!
I usually don't like fancy guitars but your Duesenberg is so elegant ! :)
It's been one of my main go-to guitars for 10 years. It's so solid!
Very informative thank you
Very welcome
Nice video.. interesting stuff
Thanks for watching!
I currently have a Big Tonex and was hoping to add on a Tonex One to my rig to get stereo capabilities. Is the latency difference a big issue even when using different amp captures (assuming that I can control phase inversion issues on my line isolator box)?
It won't be that big of a deal if you have different captures and hard pan them.
Oh no!! I was hoping to run them together. Guess if they are hard panned it won’t matter. Much.
Hard panning will most definitely help. In fact, you'll not notice it at all. It's only when it's summed to mono.
So one of your conclusions: For stereo, use the same pedal (2 Tonex’s -or- 2 Tonex One’s) … or, does mixing two different platforms not really matter as far as comb filtering… does this indicate a real need for a Full Stereo pedal in the future?
My recommendation would be to pair two of the same units together when running in stereo, yes.
Does this mean my big tonex and tonex one together would sound better if paired together with the same model tonex? I have started playing with both models in stereo and it sounds good to me but would like to know if it would sound better. Thanks for the video!!
Actually, in my opinion, it would be the opposite. It would sound a little bit better if they were different amps. The same exact amp would have a little bit of comb filtering… But again, that's assuming that you summed them to mono which doesn't happen very often. Keeping any combination of amps hard panned will likely be fine.
Thanks for the reply!
You got it!
Dude! Great comparison.. Thanks for taking the time not just offer an opinion but actually show the process and clear explanation how good this unit is! Really appreciated
You got it bro! Love it
I didn't see where you accounted for the latency of your computer interface and it did not look like the pedals were being used as an aggregate interface themselves (If I missed this please forgive this comment). That would affect the overall latency. Also, unless they are using the exact same AD/DA chips, that will affect both latency AND phase cancellation of the pedals when compared to each other. Thanks for the test.
The latency of the interface doesn’t matter in this test because I simply lined up a dry through signal with a signal from the Tonex and started the test where the dry signal started. Does that make sense? May not be explaining that properly. But the interface delay is not a factor in this case.
@@thetoneshepherd Right but didnt the dry signal have to go out of the computer and into the Tonex (and then back into the computer)? I guess a better question is: where is the dry signal coming from that goes into the Tonex? Are you splitting the dry signal before going into both? Sorry for being obtuse...just trying to understand the signal flow.
Correct, the source audio came from a sine wave (from a phone) that was then routed to a splitter and sent to each pedal and a clean through signal.
Thanks for that video!
Glad it was helpful!
Great work, subscribed!
I’m honored! Thanks!
just subscribed for the effort. nice job. splendid indeed.
Means a lot my friend! Thanks for the sub!
But
1. Can you drop the same software presets on the TONEX ONE from the app?
2. On the TONEX ONE can you have those 20 slots on the dial be A/B per slot, giving you a total of 40 amps to use live?
1. Yes
2. No
Hello, I'm using your tones well. I also ordered when ToneX One came out this time, but if there is one Big Box ToneX and one ToneX One, how will you use it? The pedal I have now is Big Box ToneX, hx stomp!
I would use the big box for drives and the small one for amps!
@@thetoneshepherd And do you still use the input trim in 8.5 dB? In the first question, would it be okay to dual amplifier the Big Box and ToneX One? The rest of the effectors use hx stomp! Thank you!!
Yes, Input Trim is still at 8.5. There's a section in my other video where I show the settings on the TONEX ONE that compare to the Big Box. This link should take you right there ruclips.net/video/BgH6VQWgj5Y/видео.html&si=Z9QhidTK6BrbMRU6
And you could use the ONE and big box for stereo amps but I would caution you that unless they're hard panned and/or using different captures, they'll have comb filtering when run in mono.
A question - do I need to trim input gain every time I change the guitar or put a pedal infront?
No I don’t think so. You may need to change it depending on if you’re using it as a drive pedal or amp (maybe), but it’s meant to be a “set and forget” control. You can adjust the gain on the individual presets to compensate for a high or low trim setting.
Record both signals with the input being only a switch click on your guitar. That would be easy to align.
I redid the test with a sine wave. Pretty much the same issue. It was just as easy/hard to align them but with the same issue that I can’t get the input trim on each unit exactly the same
@@thetoneshepherd The input trim is a nonissue if the signals can be recorded. Any daw will permit extremely fine level control to close the gap when close.
I’m not sure you’re completely understanding the issue. The issue is not how hard it is to line up the two wave forms. The issue is, in order for a null test to work perfectly, both pedals would have to have the exact same gain and volume settings. ANY variation in gain, volume, tone or alignment would make the null test to still reveal some audio. But since the input trims are impossible to match perfectly, you’ll always have a variation on Gain.
@@thetoneshepherd I understand the issue perfectly. The differences are not merely time & level (easy things to null) but also saturation, as fiendishly difficult as it gets to make equivalent. I was offering advice for the easy stuff. Sorry I wasn’t clearer. A lot can be deduced from the null test even when it achieves nothing even close to a null. I know you’re aware of that. I appreciate your efforts and you can rest assured I am not doubting you when I offer ideas. All the best.
Ah yes yes, sorry for the confusion. We're on the same page!
What time do you put the gain on the ac30 preset and prosonic preset??
At noon. I didn't touch anything once I brought the preset in. Just the Global Volume and Input Trim on the TONEX ONE
Leo Gibson for sure will have a video soon with a detailed null test, Thanks for testing this VERY important thing that most reviewer's completely missed, BTW, did you tried to level match the files via peak normalization?, that should do better as both are supposed to be playing the same capture, maybe do the same test with 2 big ToneX to eliminate any variability on cables or other stuff, that should cancel completely
Thanks! And yes, I already know two big boxes will cancel. That's an easy test that I've done before, but that's to be expected.
@@thetoneshepherd ok thanks, so I guess the minimal difference heard is due to levels and delay differences, but that's almost nothing
Totally.
We're getting into cork sniffing and debating how many angels can you fit on the head of a pin.
I own both and are used strictly as live into rack gear, tube power amps and cabs...
I can't tell the difference between the two and "real amps" anymore. Beyond impressed
What a time we're living in!
Sick Video Man 🔥🔥🔥
Thank you!
Perfect demo!
Thanks!
Fantastic video!!!!
Thank you very much!
Love the nerdy stuff!
Thanks me too!
Man... If they had added spdif to either box and given us 48k 24 bit, we could patch this digitally into the Fractal stuff to get profiling into the Fractal. I did this with my OG Kemper... And the converters (or whatever) in th Fractal sounded better than the Kemper's for whatever reason. The Kemper player also doesn't have Spdif. Only th big units do. What a bummer.
Maybe one day all your wildest gear dreams will come true! Still the best time to be a guitar player ever 🙌🏼
Hey! What kind of mic are you using?
Using a Universal Audio Sphere DLX into an Apollo x8p interface. Love that this mic can model many different other mics. I typically set it up to model the Senheiser 416 since I have and love that mic for voice over stuff.
@@thetoneshepherd Thank you! Sounds great.
Thanks! I love it
Off topic. But can you enable/disable a stomp pedal that is within a preset? Like if my presets chain has a tube screamer in front, can I disable enable it? Or is that only for purely stomp captures using the tonex one as a stomp box? Thanks.
No, you’d have to make two different captures, one with the TS in front and one with it off. Does that make sense? No way to separate the pedal from the amp within a preset.
@@thetoneshepherd Yep makes sense. And I found my answer in watching many other videos, it was a major complaint... I have ZERO AMPS, so I wouldn't be capturing at all. I've been a home hobbyist forever and have been amp sim vst only for over 20 years. This would mean if I wanted a 5150 with and without an overdrive in front, I'd have to find 2 identical with and without overdrive.
It's just a technical question, as I always use an overdrive, so not an issue. But if there is no latency when switching presets, doesn't seem like a big issue.
Yeah no issue switching between presets at all. And you could likely find what you’re looking for. There are tons of captures out there!
Great vid. Thanx!
You got it!
I thought the ToneX One sounded ever so slightly louder, but sonically it sounded the same to me. Very nice job. I might have to get one of those little fckrs! lol
I heard the same thing, Well done video.
There's a small chance it was louder but it would have been fractions of a db louder. And thus another reason they wouldn't cancel completely.
@@thetoneshepherd It was the slightest amount. Almost unnticeable. And I definitely don't mean it as a criticism, just offering up what I heard. The test was great. I would definitely buy that little box to extend my toolkit for recording.
Definitely comb filtering going on when the 2 are In parallel
Yes indeed
I CAN hear it. Neither bad. Just slightly different. Will anybody in the audience hear it or care? 98% wont hear it or care. Im just using it in a studio anyway. Ive gotten used to latency, playing through the DAW. You just get used to it. Ive beennusing Amplitube since the beginn8ng and now adde Tonex max to it and, yeah I dig it. In the studio. Live. I use my amp and a Boss core.
Interesting! I know a few of y’all have been saying you can hear a difference and I totally believe you do…but my ears are too dull to hear the difference haha
mmm, ....he big Tonex box sounds clearer and with a bit more headroom....
I thought so too
Yeah…I’m not so sure about that. Everyone is most certainly entitled to their own interpretation of the comparison, but spending three weeks with the units, I literally can’t tell any difference. And the null test was enough to confirm that assessment. @justmehere6094
@@thetoneshepherd Just basing it off the beginning of your video on the a/b part. Could be settings related, really anything/ I do think the 'big' pedal will last longer. Tonex 1 will have to use a lot of SMTs and micro componants, which simply don't last as long.
I like most of the newer modern units too, but it would take a stick of dynamite to convince me that I'm not already killing the pig with my GT-1 and original FA-1 attached properly already in the right cabs as is.
Yep, lots of other great options out there too!
@@thetoneshepherd Thank goodness for choices.
You could sweep the gain and find the lowest null point.
Yes…kind of. The problem is they’re also delayed from each other so I’d have to somehow find a way to delay the TONEX ONE around .25ms and THEN do the gain sweep. Not really sure how to do the former accurately.
@@thetoneshepherd You're totally right. 👍 Great video.
Even if your a die hard gotta have Marshall stack at a gig the Tonex One is an amazing back up amp and cheap. Just have it in your case. It probably fits in your pocket. But it sounds so good so why not put on your pedal board and call it a day. What a time to be a guitar player it just gets better and better. Ah but I still have all my 100 watt Marshalls and 4x12s you'll have to take them from my dead hands lol
Always good to still have real amps hanging around…but yeah, these are hard to pass up!
good job
Thanks!
What you are hearing when they are out of phase is the difference signal. So, in theory, the only thing you are hearing is the difference between the two. That would indicate that they aren't even close to being the same. 😉
In fairness if there was a latency difference or a volume difference that would make the comparison invalid purely as a signal difference.
Correct…all of which was stated in the video, yeah? 🤷🏻♂️ Did you watch until the end? There was barely any signal once I lined them up correctly and reversed polarity.
Concurred. The final test was inaudible. That surprises me, cause I'd expect things like distortion to be time based, meaning they begin a modulation process at the start and would even be different using the same hardware or plugin.... It would take more nerdiness to investigate such a phenomenon... But great testing methodology and great video.
@@thetoneshepherd Yes I did. By eliminating the latency you virtually eliminated it. I would expect if you could perfectly match the output it would be better. It's entirely likely though that signal path and hardware, specifically in the analog stages, would also make a difference.
Next we need the ToneX Go, like the Kitana Go.
Haha totally
Until you want a affordable way to use profiles live use. Namm got no affordable good working options. Difference is so small except when you hone in on, one guitar track on headphones, isolates. Like with a microscope. So dumb.
For sure!
“Comb filtering“… Maybe consider the definition of that term…
@@JoelDubay Huh? The definition of comb filtering is precisely what's happening here--a delayed signal of itself.
I have seen 24,000 soyface tonex videos over the last few years comparing them by "use your ears bro!". Which is sadly usually the standard for soyface guru reviews and comparisons. See any video about the McGurk effect to see why that practice is Peak Doi
We are waiting this pedal in Russia guys, you are just in the future😂
Oh man! Sorry you can't get it there!
@@thetoneshepherd Nothing is impossible, I believe, i believe, i believe i believe in Youuuu😁
My God the embargo lifting on this pedal is all over RUclips. They must be paying you guys good
I got paid approximately two Tonex ones. Not a penny more.
FIRSTTTTTTT
Niiice! It's not even public yet LOL
Someone who actually did a null test! CANNOT BE A GUITAR RUclipsR!!!! If you aren't anti science, nobody in the guitar world will take you seriously. You and Jim Lil rule!
Hahaha...I love Jim Lil! And I'm a firm UNbeleiver in tonewood LOL
@@thetoneshepherd don't let them hear you say that! I did a few audio mythbusting shows with Ethan Whiner on Glenn Fricker's channel and man, the amount of crap that comes to my real life businesses over it was nuts.
Oh I know. I stirred the pot a bit ago on Insta and there was blood 😂
Rule number one: Never believe digital tone modelers when they say it "sounds exactly the same".
Great advice!! Thanks for your help!
more straight through，good unit
For sure!