@@chevyinlinesix robot cantina has been getting consistent watches from me for quite some time. It's been a wonderful thing to watch things progress over time. It's a coffee and cantina habit for sure. 🤣
I write this under a previous video, but here it is again. If you could come up with a contraption that automatically adjusts fuel based on boost, you could eliminate the temperature issue. Old turbo diesels with mechanical injector pumps used a spring loaded diaphragm actuating a small piston to achieve this.
They have them on P-pumps and other similar inline injection pumps too. Of course the other way around it is to tune for full boost and use your right foot to control the fuelling as boost builds when accellorating.
Yeah, I reckon removing the wastegate or pulling the hose off so it can free float more fuel will make more boost. Also I would fit a smaller turbo a VQ38 off a 3 cylinder Daihatsu diesel.
The diesel Saturn has been alot of fun. Youve effectively made the perfect vehicle for mixed city and backroad use where the speed limits dont exceed 45 mph. Since the belly pan mod did such a wonderful job helping the insight it would be interesting to see the kubota go into that baby
Good morning! I thought about this the other day. It won’t be an exact science, but it should give some ball park figures. There is a method for calculating the approximate power at the wheels, and it is surprisingly accurate, and for the kabuta Saturn, it will be more than adequate. The method requires the vehicle’s weight with driver, a known 1/4 mile distance, and the vehicle’s trap speed at the 1/4 mile. These numbers, when plugged into the formula, will generate the approximate horsepower required, and will give us an idea of how much power the little engine is now making ;) The formula can be found online, and there are free phone apps available as well.
pro tip===A good rule of thumb to follow when shopping for a wheelbarrow: Find one whose handles are about as wide as your shoulders. If the handles are farther apart than that, you’ll have a hard time steering.
Interesting findings. Lower EGTs and full boost at 3200 rpm, about 200-300 rpm earlier. The monitoring data suggests, you have been shifting later with connected exhaust, especially first to second gear: Rpm 3093 vs 3580. Maybe set an rpm-alarm for more consistent shifting? I think the rev limiter is asking for a raise so it can stay a bit longer in its 'happy zone'. The embedding of monitoring data has added great value 👍
Keep in mind the engine is still running on the governor so I have to both watch the tach and "feel" the engine output. The EMS 3 has an alarm that I could use, but if I trigger the RPM MAX alarm it will switch the display from all channels to just RPM and that would spoil the data video.... no mater what, its still the fastest 3 cylinder 719cc Saturn in the world... lol
For me, as I was growing up in estern Germany in the 1980's, the engine sounds more like the 3 Cylinder-2-stroke engine (992qcm, 50PS, 91Nm torque, 0-60 miles/hours in 27sec.) in a Wartburg 353, a Companion of the Trabant 😊. But you reached now a better fuel economy than 10.3L gasoline/100km. Great project. Thank you.
The most important part of a turbo exhaust system is the the dump pipe coming off the turbine housing. That flat flange against the wastegate flap is robbing you of power and response. The best are individual pipes, 1 that exits out of the turbine side that immediately steps up drastically in diameter and sharply. No nice merge from 1.5 to 2 inches a sharp abrupt step is required. The wastegate side should have its own pipe that then merges into the main exhaust down stream. A divider in the turbine housing attached to the exhaust flange should be included for this to truely work. After doing this it will spool earlier and more than likely add a psi or 2 to the boost seen by the engine. Try it and thank me later 👍
Yeah, nice video! IMHO boost is rising very slowly, whole idea of wastegated turbo is that you can use smaller turbine case(A/R) so you boost up the quick on low rpm and not over boost it on high rpm. Ideal would be that you have a full boost at less than 2000rpm so low end torque and power would be much better. 😎👌
The turbo is frequently seen on kei cars with similar displacement, 660cc, but gas engines that spin 3x as fast. All that is to say the turbine would like more gas flow, but turbo selection for small engines is very limited.
The turbo acting as a muffler is a cool demonstration of part of how it works. When the exhaust valve opens, there is usually still a lot of pressure in the cylinder. That initial pressure blasting out of the exhaust makes the majority of the noise. The turbo functions by expanding pressurised exhaust through the turbine to extract its energy- net result, a weaker pressure pulse going out the tailpipe and less noise. If you put a super sensitive tach on the turbo you'd probably see a jump in the turbine RPM in time with each exhaust valve opening.
pro tip===When building or purchasing a birdhouse, remember that the size of the house’s hole determines which species can use the house. Most bird species will fit through a 1.25-inch hole-and most predators will not.
Dump old seed from your bird feeder periodically so rancid seed doesn’t attract raccoons or possums. Cleaning the feeder prevents the spread of disease among birds. (Pro tip: Cayenne powder mixed in with the seed is a good squirrel deterrent.)
Seems like the Kubota is asking for more fuel with the exhaust opened up. Turbo wrap and more boost wouldn’t hurt either. Having an exhaust outlet in a lower pressure, less turbulent area would also help too (and keep the EGT low, so more fuel and more boost). Excited to see the Predator twin going into the Renault. It’s not far off of the factory engine’s power numbers out of the box, and there’s plenty of room for turbos and intercoolers in that engine bay.
more fuel and exhaust wrap will raise egt. combustion temps will rise with more fuel, and the wrap will hold more of the heat in. The wrap could help turbo response as a result.
@@dukeofnyd1 Needs more fuel AND air. Can't just add fuel and more fuel or itll get too hot. He didn't double the boost in this video vs last. Added a few pounds vs last time, but also added fuel. What is "high" for egt depends on the engine. He is already near the limit he set. The power output of this engine so low to start with that boost doesn't do as much as you would think.
On the 12 valve Cummins engines, Cummins literature says they built the head with no water passages near the exhaust runners/ports for less heat exchange to the radiator and for better turbo performance. That the higher the EGT'S the more boost the turbo generates due to the heat causing closer tolerances on the turbine side.
Simple explanation from the old farmer's tale: Diesel engines make more power the hotter they get. Right up until they blow up, or melt, or both. Which is why you don't want to let your diesel-engine tractor roll over on its side. Apart from the resulting high level of personal excitement and danger, the engine will start consuming its own engine oil, and will speed up and up and up until it goes boom. By disconnecting your exhaust, you decreased back pressure, allowing the air-fuel charge to move more efficiently through the engine. This slightly decreased the exhaust temperature, reflecting a lower combustion temperature and yielding just a little bit less power for the amount of fuel you were giving it. Anyway, that's my two cents. Much of what works for gasoline engines works opposite for diesels, which is makes them so weird and wonderful.
The reason that the open exhaust slightly slowed down the car is because it was making more boost with the same amount of fuel and lost efficiency aka power. The egt’s your running are super safe. A stock turbo diesel will run 1100 to 1150 max egt’s. With that said you can run hotter and get away with it but there’s really no need for that unless your racing. The biggest gain you could achieve from this setup would come from an injection pump design for boost. Right now your fueling is based on rpm. If you had a boost reference pump you would be making full boost at probably 2000 rpm or lower. There’s a lot of potential left here. Maybe your turbo is about maxed out but if you get the fuel and boost to come in at a much lower rpm this thing will feel like a completely different machine. Keep the content coming and don’t be afraid to pull the fuel screw completely out. Your foot can do all the fuel control that is needed.
Another good episode! Part of my Sunday schedule is to watch Robot Cantina before I go to bed. You have become an enjoyable habit. Who could imagine I would be captivated by a Toyota running on a lawn mower engine and a diesel Saturn. I can't wait for the Renault with the V-twin. Phil
2:40 A more accurate way to measure is to put the screw on the back of the caliper ( at the end of the black strip ) Flip the caliper over and this will show what to do
Here's an idea...pre-heat the fuel by tapping into the coolant, or better yet, from the really hot oil return line from the turbo. Heat will lower the fuel's viscosity ratio and cause it to atomize more finely during the injection cycle, making cleaner exhaust at high power.
Love your episodes. It's a lot of fun watching how methodical you are. My engineering mind loves that. Exhaust systems are just that - systems. I suspect there was some kind of pulse scavenging effect going on that was ruined when you disconnected the rest of the system. It looks like the turbo made a little more boost and that could be why the EGTs were down. I suspect the right next more is a bigger downpipe and if there's time I would love to see that going to the remainder of the old system. Can you get the slightly better efficiency of the turbine and cooler EGTs with the extra scavenging? It saves you from building a whole system and if it's something that can carry over to the new project it's not a waste of time or money... For the predator - you have to do twin pipes... At some point you need twin pipes on it. But, you can also experiment with different systems, but straight duals have a unique sound somewhat like an older Harley. Not exactly the same, but somewhat. And lastly, I hope nobody says "you need backpressure..." or similar... If you think you need backpressure and it's as simple as that - shove a cork in your tailpipe... Exhaust systems are complex, fluid dynamic systems that have a variable heat and pressure relationship with acoustic tuning - i.e. the pulses can help or hurt things, reversion, etc. If you have a V8 drag car with headers and you run open headers at the flange - you will always go faster if you add a 15-18" collector extension. It's the same diameter pipe and there's no change in pressure, but the waves have more time to balance out. You can start with a longer pipe and paint it and where the paint burns off - cut it there. It will give you the best HP and TQ boost you can get. Change the cam, heads, intake, etc and that point changes too. Just remember - it's a system. It all has to work together. Oh, and BTW, I think the wheel bearing is going bad... ;-p
Thunderstorms happen more in summer because of the warm humid air. Along coastal regions, hurricanes are common during the summer months. Summer is the warmest season because the Earth is tilted toward the sun.
Jim, Usually on those turbos with a wastegate next to the outlet, yiu get whats called a 'Bell mouth' housing, which lets exhaust gas ecit smoothly rather than running up against the flange...
I think your timers for acceleration will be more accurate if instead, you do a rolling start. Maybe start the timers at 5 or 10 mph and go to 55 and 60 mph. Reason being, your launches aren’t consistent. (Not to your fault). But it can easily cost a second or 2 in your data. Keep the videos coming! I don’t miss any!
Makes sense. The turbo doesn't really run on pressure - it relies on thermal expansion. If you keep more of the heat in the turbo housing there is less loss to cooling therefore it takes slightly less power to spin the turbo for the same pressure. The flip side to this is you could potentially run more fuel with the exhaust off since the temps are lower. Which one is a better option will depend more on what you want it to do than anything else.
I was thinking the same exact thing. Not exactly what I expected, but once I thought about it for a second, that was the only thing that made sense to me.
A slight injection pump timing tweek and there's another second could be shaved! Would absolutely love to see that car on a dyno! There's gotta be a close shop that would do it for a shout-out and science, strictly for educational purposes that is. I'd guess 24 wheel hp as it sits
You should do a compound turbo set up, so add another turbo that feeds into this turbo that’s even bigger to get more airflow. Also try hooking up water methanol injection.
Another entertaining video, you make my Sundays, I was late today but usually it would be a bowl of oatmeal with maple syrup and Robot Catena. Never mind the detractors and nit pickers, most of the regulars come here for entertainment and we really appreciate it. Keep it coming, we really appreciate your sense of humour and ingenuity.
counterintuitively, a turbocharger isn't really driven by directly by exhaust pressure or flow, but rather by exhaust gas expansion, i.e. how a steam engine works. this means you actually _want_ higher EGTs, with a high temperature delta across the exhaust side of the turbo, and a larger exhaust outlet than you would have on a naturally aspirated exhaust manifold. edit: thinking about the size of the exhaust side inlet and outlet of an average mitsubishi TD04, you probably want a ~1:1.5 ratio of exhaust manifold to downpipe size, though that's for a gas engine, so ymmv.
Hotter exhaust gases flow better than colder exhaust gases. It's commonly known in the tuner world that heat wrapping your exhaust to contain heat in the exhaust improves flow. The result you have observed with lower exhaust temperature leading to slower acceleration is not only logical but also expected
On turbocharged engines you don't want your exhaust stream exit dumping at just any random angle into the passing slip stream. I know that v-band is tucked up behind the fender/coraplast, but just saying you may want to check whether there's enough turbulence happening there to make flow less than ideal - even the fact that there's a slipstream 4" away from and perpendicular to the exit can be problematic. The exhaust should dump same direction as airflow to be correct. Remember, N/A engines are less effected by this - but any back pressure on a turbo engine kills boost because it acts as a brake on the turbo.
@@WhateverpoopiepantsOh my bad. I forgot to ask you about it and instead relied on my decades of experience building forced induction engines and racing them.
@@Whateverpoopiepants ??? I did. Stop acting like you own the internet. I'll say things exactly the way I want to. I don't answer to you. There are a lot of people saying things about back pressure here that only apply to naturally aspirated engines. Even a small amount of resistance limits boost on a turbo setup. The exhaust setup he had was preferred to dumping the exhaust into you slipstream at any other angle than parallel with it.
backpressure pre turbo is what spools/powers it.. you have to have it. post turbo you want it as low as you can get it. the slip stream wont affect the exhaust flow. There's plenty of force pushing it out.
I know the guy who bought a used Trailblazer 5.3 for me to install paid the core charge up front, and never came back for the core, so that one was _kinda_ given away...... Great little series, looking forward to the Renault. Nice gear box to CVT setup.
@@robotcantina8957 Just had a stuck lifter, it's otherwise good, 243 heads, Gen 4 rods, but a 24X crank reluctor, so a 411 pcm can run it, it really is a pretty good score, well, if you want one.....
CANTINA, we love the short short videos, you have been putting out recently.. I watch them while I am waiting for my plane at the airport. thanks, ROBOT 👾👾👾👾
Wheel bearings in those Saturns were basically half junk when new. I had one that I ran up to 335,000 miles and I couldn’t even tell u how many wheel bearings I put in over the 12 years I drove that thing. I wanna say 3 sets in the front and 2 sets in the back.
Turbochargers are driven by adiabatic expansion, so what you need to look at is the pre and post turbine temperature to see the real impact of the full/no exhaust. Most likely you were losing expansion because of the free flowing exhaust, so there was less energy driving the turbine.
While maybe not conducive to a top mount intercooler, I did an experiment with a windshield washer pump that spray water directly onto the intercooler when activated. The results to the intake air temps were pretty interesting if you're looking for an interesting yet cheap experiment.
pro tip== Cars that have sat un-started for months, maybe even without oil, don't take kindly to an abrupt wake-up call. They can be as nasty as a grizzly bear prematurely jolted out of hibernation, and you will pay the price of its wrath. Whether a car has been sitting for three months or three years, certain steps must be taken before you can just fire it up and head down the road, especially if you want to ensure many happy years on the road. Before jumping in, do some basic checks, which include looking for leaks, corroded fittings, rotted hoses, or compromised seals. Also check for leaks in the power-steering system, engine, transmission, rear axle, and brakes.
Suggestion: when you alter the exhaust, also make sure it vents directly toward the rear and put a slightly flared diffuser on it so that the back pressure is a little bit reduced. It would be interesting to compare just a straight opening exit to one which is slightly flared to see if the same thing happens as in a rocket nozzle or not. [no not the thrust, just the pressure drop]
The full exhaust runs are on boost slightly earlier, because you have more exhaust gas temperature, which yields more go juice for the turbo at the same flow rate, as the gas is higher in energy. Means you can shove more fuel into the thing with the exhaust opened up.
Год назад+13
Now I understand why it's called MADMAN... I was monitoring the figures (mainly EGT and boost) like mad while you were flooring it :) good stuff, just keep it going, you really make our Sundays!
I think the difference was that the full exhaust got shifted into 2nd at a higher rpm, hitting a peak psi of 12 vs no exhaust peak of 6psi while in first gear. This caused it to build boost faster through 2nd giving it a slight edge. Although this is just me overanalyzing one run :) The shift rpms i saw (peak from frame by frame) started rolling at 3086rpm full ex vs 2937rpm free flow. shifted into 2nd at 3580rpm full ex vs 3140rpm free flow, then into 3rd at 3584rpm full ex 3476rpm free flow, both shifted into 4th at 3531rpm
One thing with the air cooled v twin, There are going to be issues with hot air recirculating. Air cooled VW engine compartments are sealed top to bottom to prevent this from occurring.
“Anyone can be a father. It takes someone special to be a dad, and that's why I call you dad because you are so special to me. You taught me the game, and you taught me how to play it right.”
Ya!! It seems like all of my favorite RUclipsrs knew I was gonna be layed up for a while. So they all put good videos out! So I know the saturn is only a temporary car but, would a propane injection cool the EGT’s at all? Just a suggestion, not a diesel expert by any means. Just always seemed like propane was nitrous for diesel guys. Thought the 670 was going in the insight? Either way us viewers have been chomping at the bit for a 670 swap! Thanks Jimbo, you rock😎
It liked the open exhaust if you notice in addition to lower EGT, you showed lower ECT and a little higher boost pressure. Adding the extra fuel would probably produce the performance increase expected🎉
Hey jimbo! I’ve been watching for a while and I think you need a Boost controller for the turbo wastegate, as the boost rises the waste gate slowly opens, therefore you loose flow over the turbo. I designed a basic one using an arduino and a few cheap parts, if your interested hit me up and I’ll supply you with a parts list and the code :) hope this can help you spool the turbo faster and keep that boost in the top end 👌🏻😁👍🏻
You can find my email in the "about section" on the channel home page. I'm not sure what direction we will be taking this car in the next few episodes but we are pretty much done with it.
Would still love to see a cheap water/meth kit slapped on the saturn. Some -20* washer fluid and a boost referenced spray nozzle should work. Tho fine tuning it all might be tricky, but the madman might help
I´d like to buy something small (light) off the trusty old Saturn when You scrap it, it´s been a quite reliable test bed but I think the Kubota would fit the Renault way better because the Renault is lighter. That would be fun to see and You´d have the only one there is. Have a beautiful day, Greets from Germany
Oh baby the big block predator V has found its home! That's going to be fun to watch. Keep up the excellent work. It might be usefull to check back pressure on the exhaust before the turbo.
lower exhaust temp means lower pressure (less expanded air) and the boost reference at rpm shows that (assuming the car has the same mass and wind direction speed extra). if you had a 4 or 3" dump pipe you would get better gains as the exhaust gasses leaving the back of the turbo is not traveling in a straight line out the back but leaving in a vortex and washing outwards (turbulent air),
Instead of a manifold you could do long tube headers; that would reduce exhaust temperature significantly. The manifold is the main choke point where heat is at its worst. Manifolds are also highly restrictive in terms of air flow, where good headers flow way better.
AFRs with diesels are not the same as a gasser. Diesels can run really rich or incredibly lean and still make power. As long as he keeps the EGTs from melting a piston and the head from lifting he's good.
Thanks for another great video on the Saturn. Compared to the Renault, I guess it has a better aerodynamic value, but the Renault has more lightness to it, so the race will continue! 👍💪✌
I mentioned this before but now it's the best time to bring this to the surface again. The engine needs a camshaft regrind, there are several companies who offer such services for Kubota engines and specifically needs a gas type cam profile to make it breath fire and get some RPM increase, the one it has makes the engine suffer loaded on variable RPM as it's set for maximum efficiency on stationary RPM and load. Now that the engine is more or less maxed out, with all the specs of the setup i do believe it should have of had much better performance. Keep the videos coming, it's my favorite channel so far.
I love the methodical testing on bizarre stuff. I think disconnecting the exhaust you upset the delicate balance of the system, clearly you need to give it MORE fuel and MOAR BOOST after you do that. ;)
Okay, I've checked on what EGT are safe (2.0 TDI 140hp tuned to 170bhp), 900*C egt and it takes fuel off. So You're safe :) Also, people are doing 900-95*C while ECU tuning it. Hope it helps!
I will be sad to see the Saturn go. It’s a neat little car that would get awesome fuel mileage and most likely be rock solid reliable. Looking forward to the next adventure. I really appreciate the diesel flavored variety. Thanks.
I’m blown away by this series of the Saturn with the 3 cylinder diesel engine. You are very scientific and that’s okay. I can’t wait to see what you can do with the “new car”!
removing the exhaust reduced the post turbo exhaust pressure which in turn reduced the EGT as the engine is doing less work because the exhaust is less restrictive. that loss of heat energy in the turbine housing is what cost you spool. a way you can remedy this is a fiberglass insulated turbo blanket that encases the turbine housing as well as wrapping the exhaust manifold in header wrap, doing this will keep EGT higher and help the turbo to spool up and start making boost much quicker, since heat energy is ultimately what spools it.
Sunday morning. No work, just grab a cup of Joe and enjoy a robot cantina video .😎
Literally waiting for my coffee when I realize this was up 😂
Also I have a lot of shite to deal with today and tomorrow, what a great start to the day 😎
Right there with ya indeed!
I'm at work drinking my morning coffee and watching this. It's such an interesting series, I watch every episode 🙂
@@chevyinlinesix robot cantina has been getting consistent watches from me for quite some time. It's been a wonderful thing to watch things progress over time. It's a coffee and cantina habit for sure. 🤣
I love how this is slowly escalating into MOAR POWAAAAAARRRRRRRR!!!!!!
I wish there was some way we could predict what you're going to do with that white car😂
I write this under a previous video, but here it is again. If you could come up with a contraption that automatically adjusts fuel based on boost, you could eliminate the temperature issue. Old turbo diesels with mechanical injector pumps used a spring loaded diaphragm actuating a small piston to achieve this.
yeah, some kinda servo instead of bolting the fuel adjustment down. fashion a gear system and there you go.
They have them on P-pumps and other similar inline injection pumps too. Of course the other way around it is to tune for full boost and use your right foot to control the fuelling as boost builds when accellorating.
It’s called a Aneroid Fuel Control or AFC for short.
Yeah, I reckon removing the wastegate or pulling the hose off so it can free float more fuel will make more boost. Also I would fit a smaller turbo a VQ38 off a 3 cylinder Daihatsu diesel.
Using vacuum
The diesel Saturn has been alot of fun. Youve effectively made the perfect vehicle for mixed city and backroad use where the speed limits dont exceed 45 mph. Since the belly pan mod did such a wonderful job helping the insight it would be interesting to see the kubota go into that baby
I like how Jimbo keeps saying "acculator" like it's a real word.
And I'm going to keep telling myself that until it doesn't bother me 😂😂
Was that the thing next to the flux capacitor?
@@SumfinOrUtter Yup, between that and the blinker fluid reservoir.
That's correct terminology for an engine that doesn't have sparkolators. At least that's what Derek from Vicegrip Garage would have you believe.
@Samsung Tvset Figures those Diesel guys would have diff'rent writins than stuff for digical engines.
Well if it's vacuum actuated via an accumulator maybe it's a portmanteau of accumulator and actuator?
Good morning! I thought about this the other day. It won’t be an exact science, but it should give some ball park figures.
There is a method for calculating the approximate power at the wheels, and it is surprisingly accurate, and for the kabuta Saturn, it will be more than adequate.
The method requires the vehicle’s weight with driver, a known 1/4 mile distance, and the vehicle’s trap speed at the 1/4 mile.
These numbers, when plugged into the formula, will generate the approximate horsepower required, and will give us an idea of how much power the little engine is now making ;)
The formula can be found online, and there are free phone apps available as well.
pro tip===A good rule of thumb to follow when shopping for a wheelbarrow: Find one whose handles are about as wide as your shoulders. If the handles are farther apart than that, you’ll have a hard time steering.
Interesting findings. Lower EGTs and full boost at 3200 rpm, about 200-300 rpm earlier.
The monitoring data suggests, you have been shifting later with connected exhaust, especially first to second gear: Rpm 3093 vs 3580. Maybe set an rpm-alarm for more consistent shifting? I think the rev limiter is asking for a raise so it can stay a bit longer in its 'happy zone'.
The embedding of monitoring data has added great value 👍
Definitely needs a bit more rpm, question is can the engine manage that
Keep in mind the engine is still running on the governor so I have to both watch the tach and "feel" the engine output. The EMS 3 has an alarm that I could use, but if I trigger the RPM MAX alarm it will switch the display from all channels to just RPM and that would spoil the data video.... no mater what, its still the fastest 3 cylinder 719cc Saturn in the world... lol
For me, as I was growing up in estern Germany in the 1980's, the engine sounds more like the 3 Cylinder-2-stroke engine (992qcm, 50PS, 91Nm torque, 0-60 miles/hours in 27sec.) in a Wartburg 353, a Companion of the Trabant 😊. But you reached now a better fuel economy than 10.3L gasoline/100km. Great project. Thank you.
The most important part of a turbo exhaust system is the the dump pipe coming off the turbine housing. That flat flange against the wastegate flap is robbing you of power and response. The best are individual pipes, 1 that exits out of the turbine side that immediately steps up drastically in diameter and sharply. No nice merge from 1.5 to 2 inches a sharp abrupt step is required. The wastegate side should have its own pipe that then merges into the main exhaust down stream. A divider in the turbine housing attached to the exhaust flange should be included for this to truely work. After doing this it will spool earlier and more than likely add a psi or 2 to the boost seen by the engine. Try it and thank me later 👍
Yeah, nice video! IMHO boost is rising very slowly, whole idea of wastegated turbo is that you can use smaller turbine case(A/R) so you boost up the quick on low rpm and not over boost it on high rpm. Ideal would be that you have a full boost at less than 2000rpm so low end torque and power would be much better. 😎👌
It's also not great with boost recovery after shift.
The turbo is frequently seen on kei cars with similar displacement, 660cc, but gas engines that spin 3x as fast. All that is to say the turbine would like more gas flow, but turbo selection for small engines is very limited.
Could probably use a turbo from a diesel Smart car, if I recall they're roughly around the same CC as the Kubota.
Just remove the waitse gate so you get maximum boost and the sweet turbo sounds
Can't wait to see that v twin in action!
takes me back when i put on of those on my riding mower and swapped the pulleys. damn thing smoked belts for breakfast
The turbo acting as a muffler is a cool demonstration of part of how it works.
When the exhaust valve opens, there is usually still a lot of pressure in the cylinder. That initial pressure blasting out of the exhaust makes the majority of the noise. The turbo functions by expanding pressurised exhaust through the turbine to extract its energy- net result, a weaker pressure pulse going out the tailpipe and less noise. If you put a super sensitive tach on the turbo you'd probably see a jump in the turbine RPM in time with each exhaust valve opening.
pro tip===When building or purchasing a birdhouse, remember that the size of the house’s hole determines which species can use the house. Most bird species will fit through a 1.25-inch hole-and most predators will not.
Dump old seed from your bird feeder periodically so rancid seed doesn’t attract raccoons or possums. Cleaning the feeder prevents the spread of disease among birds. (Pro tip: Cayenne powder mixed in with the seed is a good squirrel deterrent.)
Seems like the Kubota is asking for more fuel with the exhaust opened up. Turbo wrap and more boost wouldn’t hurt either. Having an exhaust outlet in a lower pressure, less turbulent area would also help too (and keep the EGT low, so more fuel and more boost).
Excited to see the Predator twin going into the Renault. It’s not far off of the factory engine’s power numbers out of the box, and there’s plenty of room for turbos and intercoolers in that engine bay.
Came here to say the same thing. Needs more fuel with the better volumetric efficiency from the exhaust delete
more fuel and exhaust wrap will raise egt. combustion temps will rise with more fuel, and the wrap will hold more of the heat in. The wrap could help turbo response as a result.
Egts are pretty low. Doubling boost shouldve cut the 0-55 by a significant amount. Needs fuel
@@dukeofnyd1 Needs more fuel AND air. Can't just add fuel and more fuel or itll get too hot. He didn't double the boost in this video vs last. Added a few pounds vs last time, but also added fuel. What is "high" for egt depends on the engine. He is already near the limit he set. The power output of this engine so low to start with that boost doesn't do as much as you would think.
I think the turbo he has is maxed now at 15psi. Would he be safe to run 20 or 30 psi?
On the 12 valve Cummins engines, Cummins literature says they built the head with no water passages near the exhaust runners/ports for less heat exchange to the radiator and for better turbo performance. That the higher the EGT'S the more boost the turbo generates due to the heat causing closer tolerances on the turbine side.
I sent the first madman video link to the guy who invented madman…
He loved it !
I just sent this one too
(I used to live in South Africa)
Simple explanation from the old farmer's tale: Diesel engines make more power the hotter they get. Right up until they blow up, or melt, or both. Which is why you don't want to let your diesel-engine tractor roll over on its side. Apart from the resulting high level of personal excitement and danger, the engine will start consuming its own engine oil, and will speed up and up and up until it goes boom. By disconnecting your exhaust, you decreased back pressure, allowing the air-fuel charge to move more efficiently through the engine. This slightly decreased the exhaust temperature, reflecting a lower combustion temperature and yielding just a little bit less power for the amount of fuel you were giving it. Anyway, that's my two cents. Much of what works for gasoline engines works opposite for diesels, which is makes them so weird and wonderful.
The reason that the open exhaust slightly slowed down the car is because it was making more boost with the same amount of fuel and lost efficiency aka power. The egt’s your running are super safe. A stock turbo diesel will run 1100 to 1150 max egt’s. With that said you can run hotter and get away with it but there’s really no need for that unless your racing. The biggest gain you could achieve from this setup would come from an injection pump design for boost. Right now your fueling is based on rpm. If you had a boost reference pump you would be making full boost at probably 2000 rpm or lower. There’s a lot of potential left here. Maybe your turbo is about maxed out but if you get the fuel and boost to come in at a much lower rpm this thing will feel like a completely different machine. Keep the content coming and don’t be afraid to pull the fuel screw completely out. Your foot can do all the fuel control that is needed.
The speed was less because of less density of the exhaust gasses. That allowed less force against the turbine wheel.
Another good episode! Part of my Sunday schedule is to watch Robot Cantina before I go to bed. You have become an enjoyable habit. Who could imagine I would be captivated by a Toyota running on a lawn mower engine and a diesel Saturn. I can't wait for the Renault with the V-twin. Phil
2:40 A more accurate way to measure is to put the screw on the back of the caliper ( at the end of the black strip ) Flip the caliper over and this will show what to do
Yes! I shouting at the screen “use the step measuring thing”, but I don’t think Jimbo heard me.
Here's an idea...pre-heat the fuel by tapping into the coolant, or better yet, from the really hot oil return line from the turbo.
Heat will lower the fuel's viscosity ratio and cause it to atomize more finely during the injection cycle, making cleaner exhaust at high power.
The perfect Sunday morning, church, run and then Robot Cantina. Thanks for the video. 👍
Great Sunday for an upload! I also came to hear him say acculator instead of actuator. Gets me every time.
Love your episodes. It's a lot of fun watching how methodical you are. My engineering mind loves that.
Exhaust systems are just that - systems. I suspect there was some kind of pulse scavenging effect going on that was ruined when you disconnected the rest of the system. It looks like the turbo made a little more boost and that could be why the EGTs were down. I suspect the right next more is a bigger downpipe and if there's time I would love to see that going to the remainder of the old system. Can you get the slightly better efficiency of the turbine and cooler EGTs with the extra scavenging? It saves you from building a whole system and if it's something that can carry over to the new project it's not a waste of time or money...
For the predator - you have to do twin pipes... At some point you need twin pipes on it. But, you can also experiment with different systems, but straight duals have a unique sound somewhat like an older Harley. Not exactly the same, but somewhat.
And lastly, I hope nobody says "you need backpressure..." or similar... If you think you need backpressure and it's as simple as that - shove a cork in your tailpipe... Exhaust systems are complex, fluid dynamic systems that have a variable heat and pressure relationship with acoustic tuning - i.e. the pulses can help or hurt things, reversion, etc. If you have a V8 drag car with headers and you run open headers at the flange - you will always go faster if you add a 15-18" collector extension. It's the same diameter pipe and there's no change in pressure, but the waves have more time to balance out. You can start with a longer pipe and paint it and where the paint burns off - cut it there. It will give you the best HP and TQ boost you can get. Change the cam, heads, intake, etc and that point changes too. Just remember - it's a system. It all has to work together.
Oh, and BTW, I think the wheel bearing is going bad... ;-p
Summer is all about the heat. Some areas might have dry heat, while others will be hot and humid. Summer weather has its own unique flavor.
Thunderstorms happen more in summer because of the warm humid air.
Along coastal regions, hurricanes are common during the summer months.
Summer is the warmest season because the Earth is tilted toward the sun.
Meteorologists see the summer starting in the north on June 1st and in the south on December 1st. This is based off temperature rather than astronomy.
Jim, Usually on those turbos with a wastegate next to the outlet, yiu get whats called a 'Bell mouth' housing, which lets exhaust gas ecit smoothly rather than running up against the flange...
I think your timers for acceleration will be more accurate if instead, you do a rolling start. Maybe start the timers at 5 or 10 mph and go to 55 and 60 mph. Reason being, your launches aren’t consistent. (Not to your fault). But it can easily cost a second or 2 in your data.
Keep the videos coming! I don’t miss any!
Makes sense. The turbo doesn't really run on pressure - it relies on thermal expansion. If you keep more of the heat in the turbo housing there is less loss to cooling therefore it takes slightly less power to spin the turbo for the same pressure.
The flip side to this is you could potentially run more fuel with the exhaust off since the temps are lower.
Which one is a better option will depend more on what you want it to do than anything else.
Yep, exactly what I was thinking. I noticed boost threshold was moved to a lower RPM with more heat in the manifold.
I was thinking the same exact thing. Not exactly what I expected, but once I thought about it for a second, that was the only thing that made sense to me.
Theres alot to it but yeah. Turbo blankets and exhaust wrap makes a huge difference
Actually it's a bit of both the faster the motor turns the faster the pulses are and thermal expansion and is part of the equation
Less exhaust restriction = less drive pressure. Less drive pressure = slower turbo spool. Slower turbo spool = slower acceleration.
A slight injection pump timing tweek and there's another second could be shaved! Would absolutely love to see that car on a dyno! There's gotta be a close shop that would do it for a shout-out and science, strictly for educational purposes that is. I'd guess 24 wheel hp as it sits
You’re welcome Jimbo, enjoying the series so far.
I didn’t realize how heavy that engine is! Dayum!
You should do a compound turbo set up, so add another turbo that feeds into this turbo that’s even bigger to get more airflow. Also try hooking up water methanol injection.
Another entertaining video, you make my Sundays, I was late today but usually it would be a bowl of oatmeal with maple syrup and Robot Catena. Never mind the detractors and nit pickers, most of the regulars come here for entertainment and we really appreciate it. Keep it coming, we really appreciate your sense of humour and ingenuity.
I’m waiting to see 40psi boost and toss and chunks flying everywhere 🤘
Great to see the Hemi BIG block go into the Renault!
counterintuitively, a turbocharger isn't really driven by directly by exhaust pressure or flow, but rather by exhaust gas expansion, i.e. how a steam engine works. this means you actually _want_ higher EGTs, with a high temperature delta across the exhaust side of the turbo, and a larger exhaust outlet than you would have on a naturally aspirated exhaust manifold.
edit: thinking about the size of the exhaust side inlet and outlet of an average mitsubishi TD04, you probably want a ~1:1.5 ratio of exhaust manifold to downpipe size, though that's for a gas engine, so ymmv.
5:12 didn't expect you looking a bit like Hulk Hoogan. Cool
Hotter exhaust gases flow better than colder exhaust gases. It's commonly known in the tuner world that heat wrapping your exhaust to contain heat in the exhaust improves flow. The result you have observed with lower exhaust temperature leading to slower acceleration is not only logical but also expected
Jimbo, just know that I believe in the Magic you bring to this Channel.
On turbocharged engines you don't want your exhaust stream exit dumping at just any random angle into the passing slip stream. I know that v-band is tucked up behind the fender/coraplast, but just saying you may want to check whether there's enough turbulence happening there to make flow less than ideal - even the fact that there's a slipstream 4" away from and perpendicular to the exit can be problematic. The exhaust should dump same direction as airflow to be correct. Remember, N/A engines are less effected by this - but any back pressure on a turbo engine kills boost because it acts as a brake on the turbo.
I take it you are joking ?
Where did you get that from ?
@@WhateverpoopiepantsOh my bad. I forgot to ask you about it and instead relied on my decades of experience building forced induction engines and racing them.
@@QuantumLeap83
Then why didn’t you say back pressure ?
@@Whateverpoopiepants ??? I did. Stop acting like you own the internet. I'll say things exactly the way I want to. I don't answer to you.
There are a lot of people saying things about back pressure here that only apply to naturally aspirated engines. Even a small amount of resistance limits boost on a turbo setup. The exhaust setup he had was preferred to dumping the exhaust into you slipstream at any other angle than parallel with it.
backpressure pre turbo is what spools/powers it.. you have to have it. post turbo you want it as low as you can get it. the slip stream wont affect the exhaust flow. There's plenty of force pushing it out.
I know the guy who bought a used Trailblazer 5.3 for me to install paid the core charge up front, and never came back for the core, so that one was _kinda_ given away......
Great little series, looking forward to the Renault. Nice gear box to CVT setup.
Wooot ! free engine! I reckon if nothing else it would make a great boat anchor.
@@robotcantina8957 Just had a stuck lifter, it's otherwise good, 243 heads, Gen 4 rods, but a 24X crank reluctor, so a 411 pcm can run it, it really is a pretty good score, well, if you want one.....
CANTINA, we love the short short videos, you have been putting out recently.. I watch them while I am waiting for my
plane at the airport. thanks, ROBOT 👾👾👾👾
Wheel bearings in those Saturns were basically half junk when new. I had one that I ran up to 335,000 miles and I couldn’t even tell u how many wheel bearings I put in over the 12 years I drove that thing. I wanna say 3 sets in the front and 2 sets in the back.
I cannot be-LIEVE how many videos I have watched about SATURNS now...
I mean... IT'S A SATURN
👍👍👍
Turbochargers are driven by adiabatic expansion, so what you need to look at is the pre and post turbine temperature to see the real impact of the full/no exhaust. Most likely you were losing expansion because of the free flowing exhaust, so there was less energy driving the turbine.
While maybe not conducive to a top mount intercooler, I did an experiment with a windshield washer pump that spray water directly onto the intercooler when activated. The results to the intake air temps were pretty interesting if you're looking for an interesting yet cheap experiment.
Nice a little mist assisted air to air intercooler action would be cheap and easy.
That’s what I said on the last video kinda was a let down when they didn’t try my idea
LoL seriously?
pro tip==
Cars that have sat un-started for months, maybe even without oil, don't take kindly to an abrupt wake-up call. They can be as nasty as a grizzly bear prematurely jolted out of hibernation, and you will pay the price of its wrath.
Whether a car has been sitting for three months or three years, certain steps must be taken before you can just fire it up and head down the road, especially if you want to ensure many happy years on the road. Before jumping in, do some basic checks, which include looking for leaks, corroded fittings, rotted hoses, or compromised seals. Also check for leaks in the power-steering system, engine, transmission, rear axle, and brakes.
The stories I could tell about corroded fittings and rotted hoses.....🔧🔧🔧🚙🚙
Nice tease at the end putting the Predator into the old Renault, looking forward to that video.
Glad you got rid of the gnome infestation. Great video as always.
Suggestion: when you alter the exhaust, also make sure it vents directly toward the rear and put a slightly flared diffuser on it so that the back pressure is a little bit reduced.
It would be interesting to compare just a straight opening exit to one which is slightly flared to see if the same thing happens as in a rocket nozzle or not. [no not the thrust, just the pressure drop]
The full exhaust runs are on boost slightly earlier, because you have more exhaust gas temperature, which yields more go juice for the turbo at the same flow rate, as the gas is higher in energy. Means you can shove more fuel into the thing with the exhaust opened up.
Now I understand why it's called MADMAN... I was monitoring the figures (mainly EGT and boost) like mad while you were flooring it :) good stuff, just keep it going, you really make our Sundays!
As a spaniard, I love the "MOROSO" sticker in the side 😆
Robot Cantina: Best show on RUclips !
I think the difference was that the full exhaust got shifted into 2nd at a higher rpm, hitting a peak psi of 12 vs no exhaust peak of 6psi while in first gear. This caused it to build boost faster through 2nd giving it a slight edge. Although this is just me overanalyzing one run :)
The shift rpms i saw (peak from frame by frame)
started rolling at 3086rpm full ex vs 2937rpm free flow. shifted into 2nd at 3580rpm full ex vs 3140rpm free flow, then into 3rd at 3584rpm full ex 3476rpm free flow, both shifted into 4th at 3531rpm
I hit LIKE because you asked nicely but I am dreading the Renault !
My theory- Less exhaust backpressure = more air through the motor, thats why EGTs dropped. You'll need more fuel to take full advantage of the change.
One thing with the air cooled v twin, There are going to be issues with hot air recirculating. Air cooled VW engine compartments are sealed top to bottom to prevent this from occurring.
This comment is way under rated, I assume they have this in mind. Hopefully.
@@Failure_Is_An_Option it deserves far more thumbs up, sorry if I got misunderstood.
I wish they werent such collectors cars, but seeing the kubota engine in a DeLorean trying to get to 88mph with those digital guages would be ideal.😂
Invited the whole family today for MOTHER'S DAY. Lot's of fun watching ROBOT CANTINA💖💖
We know Father's Day is coming around soon, too.
@@ocdman202 “Becoming a dad means you have to be a role model for your son and be someone he can look up to.”
“Anyone can be a father. It takes someone special to be a dad, and that's why I call you dad because you are so special to me. You taught me the game, and you taught me how to play it right.”
“The quality of a father can be seen in the goals, dreams and aspirations he sets not only for himself, but for his family.”
“Good fathers make good sons.”
Always looking forward to the robot cantina video when i get home from church
oh man that teaser at the end. 670 V-TWIN POWAH GET HYPE.
Ya!! It seems like all of my favorite RUclipsrs knew I was gonna be layed up for a while. So they all put good videos out! So I know the saturn is only a temporary car but, would a propane injection cool the EGT’s at all? Just a suggestion, not a diesel expert by any means. Just always seemed like propane was nitrous for diesel guys. Thought the 670 was going in the insight? Either way us viewers have been chomping at the bit for a 670 swap!
Thanks Jimbo, you rock😎
It liked the open exhaust if you notice in addition to lower EGT, you showed lower ECT and a little higher boost pressure. Adding the extra fuel would probably produce the performance increase expected🎉
You still need a duct around the intercooler to control the airflow through the center.
i was getting ready to go to bed, then i saw a new EP, SLEEP CAN WAIT.
Hey jimbo! I’ve been watching for a while and I think you need a Boost controller for the turbo wastegate, as the boost rises the waste gate slowly opens, therefore you loose flow over the turbo. I designed a basic one using an arduino and a few cheap parts, if your interested hit me up and I’ll supply you with a parts list and the code :) hope this can help you spool the turbo faster and keep that boost in the top end 👌🏻😁👍🏻
You can find my email in the "about section" on the channel home page. I'm not sure what direction we will be taking this car in the next few episodes but we are pretty much done with it.
Would still love to see a cheap water/meth kit slapped on the saturn. Some -20* washer fluid and a boost referenced spray nozzle should work. Tho fine tuning it all might be tricky, but the madman might help
I´d like to buy something small (light) off the trusty old Saturn when You scrap it, it´s been a quite reliable test bed but I think the Kubota would fit the Renault way better because the Renault is lighter. That would be fun to see and You´d have the only one there is.
Have a beautiful day, Greets from Germany
Do you want the Saturn badge from the front of the car? My email can be found on the channel home page in the "about" section.
14:00 that thing has factory disc breaks on the rear? damn thats amazing
Oh baby the big block predator V has found its home! That's going to be fun to watch. Keep up the excellent work. It might be usefull to check back pressure on the exhaust before the turbo.
Jimbo.... one word. Extractor! Patrons take note!
lower exhaust temp means lower pressure (less expanded air) and the boost reference at rpm shows that (assuming the car has the same mass and wind direction speed extra). if you had a 4 or 3" dump pipe you would get better gains as the exhaust gasses leaving the back of the turbo is not traveling in a straight line out the back but leaving in a vortex and washing outwards (turbulent air),
Instead of a manifold you could do long tube headers; that would reduce exhaust temperature significantly. The manifold is the main choke point where heat is at its worst. Manifolds are also highly restrictive in terms of air flow, where good headers flow way better.
The exhaust on makes boost quicker as to be expected with higher EGT. Adding a AFR gauge may help working out if the engine wants more fuel or boost.
AFRs with diesels are not the same as a gasser. Diesels can run really rich or incredibly lean and still make power. As long as he keeps the EGTs from melting a piston and the head from lifting he's good.
Great episode. Soon this Saturn will be faster than my car.
See you next year on the local 1000hp drag race.
Aw boi! V-TWIN POWER! This build has to be even more whacky. Could we get twin-charged? Supercharger plus turbocharger.
Now you need to route the exhaust through a stack straight out the hood like all the cool high performance diesel truck do!😄
The Garden Gnomes are sleeping in the Yard.
Yes the return of the BIG BLOCC
Your closing preview looks like fun. I know SOME of those little euro cars WERE 2cyl Air Cooled engines originally.
The classic example is the Renault 2CV. Air cooled flat twin, with a fairly curious gearbox arrangement to boot...
You should do a compound turbo setup on it, it would be able to make so much more power and do it more efficiently.
The higher temperature before the turbos is more efficient and can add more air in to the the intake
I Am watching since the start of SE02 and I absolutely love this series! Please keep us posted 🎉
I would just run a straight pipe exhaust. Even when you change the motor out to another car.. Great project thanks for sharing.
Thanks for another great video on the Saturn. Compared to the Renault, I guess it has a better aerodynamic value, but the Renault has more lightness to it, so the race will continue!
👍💪✌
I mentioned this before but now it's the best time to bring this to the surface again. The engine needs a camshaft regrind, there are several companies who offer such services for Kubota engines and specifically needs a gas type cam profile to make it breath fire and get some RPM increase, the one it has makes the engine suffer loaded on variable RPM as it's set for maximum efficiency on stationary RPM and load.
Now that the engine is more or less maxed out, with all the specs of the setup i do believe it should have of had much better performance.
Keep the videos coming, it's my favorite channel so far.
I have an 800 wheel hp or Civic Type R however I enjoy this little engine just as much
I love the methodical testing on bizarre stuff. I think disconnecting the exhaust you upset the delicate balance of the system, clearly you need to give it MORE fuel and MOAR BOOST after you do that. ;)
Okay, I've checked on what EGT are safe (2.0 TDI 140hp tuned to 170bhp), 900*C egt and it takes fuel off. So You're safe :) Also, people are doing 900-95*C while ECU tuning it. Hope it helps!
Definitely needs a hood exit tear drop screamer pipe. That's good for like 20% more power.
I will be sad to see the Saturn go. It’s a neat little car that would get awesome fuel mileage and most likely be rock solid reliable. Looking forward to the next adventure. I really appreciate the diesel flavored variety. Thanks.
I’m blown away by this series of the Saturn with the 3 cylinder diesel engine. You are very scientific and that’s okay. I can’t wait to see what you can do with the “new car”!
Love the no wind that you are aware of and then the video rolls and the trees and bushes are making a wild wind dance :D
Gotta be one of the coolest projects I've seen. I Hope to see more from the little diesel engine
removing the exhaust reduced the post turbo exhaust pressure which in turn reduced the EGT as the engine is doing less work because the exhaust is less restrictive. that loss of heat energy in the turbine housing is what cost you spool. a way you can remedy this is a fiberglass insulated turbo blanket that encases the turbine housing as well as wrapping the exhaust manifold in header wrap, doing this will keep EGT higher and help the turbo to spool up and start making boost much quicker, since heat energy is ultimately what spools it.