The thing is, this dude is probably a great coach, but I think he doesn't really understand how to coach someone this new to the game. Like there are a lot of fundamental things that I feel like he's missing when coaching Grubby.
Everyone is ripping on this coach but I think this critic is acceptable ... Most people writing off as bad but I agree that he might be more used to people with the basics down ready to go to that next level
videos like this are always going to be tough for viewers because there is alot of nuance that is never talked about or made obvious. mac is a wonderful coach but his experience is in coaching professional players, so his lines of thinking and the things he chooses to "coach" you on may be more geared towards the typical pro player. at the same time, Grubby is not your average player, and he is certainly not your average new player. Grubby is a pro in his own right, just not in this game. He already has many years of skills and habits built up that you can identify across every game he plays. This can make it hard to call out Mac for not correcting or preventing something Grubby did, (even though casual viewers will do just that) when the reality is that Grubby is, at times, a very spontaneous, sometimes impulsive player. He wants to be where the action is and although he is quite analytical, he doesn't have the practice yet in League to make fast analytical decisions like he does in other games. tl:dr; Mac did nothing wrong; he is used to coaching pro players, not new players. Grubby did many things wrong, but the things he did wrong are the kinds of things he should be doing when he can execute them better. The full vod gave a better picture, but maybe not the wisest pairing of coach and newb.
I would've loved to hear something exciting from the coach, any insight, but there was none. I have no way of knowing how useful of a coach he is to his players, but based on what we saw from the two videos, it's just some guy who climbed the ladder years ago and that's it. I think that's the issue with what most people have, it's just some B-tier coach when everyone wanted A-S+ tier coaching.
@@wowandrss lmao ppl here don't know who mac is? he's legitimately one of the best coaches in europe. I would only really put peter dunn or dylan falco above him in terms of how valuable to a team he is but all 3 of them have very different strenghts. people overestimate what can be done in a single game. Some of his advice just won't come fully into fruition in nooby games where people don't yet know what their champs do. He's not going to catch every single detail because it won't stick anyway. and this is also not the type of coaching he normally does. Mac is one of the best coaches at making teams work a lot of his teams have been very successfull and quite a few star players made their breakthroughs under his coaching. I actually learned some things from this and i'm quite good at the game myself. there's very little good quality support coaching that focuses on vision and warding / roaming. And hearing the reasoning for doing certain things can be usefull. I never took into account backing on cannon waves, i always just did it on feeling. Also i trust what this guy says on support a lot. He just came off off a year where he coached hyllisang. Hyllisang has been a least top 2 support in the west for like a decade. Even if just a little bit of that mans brain sipped into the coaching that's extremely valuable insight. Ironically there are a lot of B-Tier coaches, mac just isn't one of them. the B tier ones are usually found making youtube content for entertainment value. Or they're on teams that aren't successful. Mac's been very succesful, One of the few coaches where you're confident they can get top 4 with any line up no matter the budget. Mac ironically is an A-S+ tier coach. But people probably would be happier with a champ specific coach. Someone like Bwipo who focusses a lot more on playing specific champions and matchups in lane. And teaching people how to play a specific champion. Personally i think for support focussing on concepts like this is way more valuable as laning is very difficult to teach since it's a duo lane and very matchup dependent. Teaching grubby to ward properly and to play around carries alone can get you to gold lmao. Playing around a fed carry is probably the easiest way to climb in league.
@@rv3427 When looking at how his teams have performed in the LEC and worlds vs other teams, I can't say i'm any more impressed. Mad Lions is a bottom tier LEC team. We just might have different standards. You might consider him S tier because he's a coach in the LEC while I see a team struggling in the LEC that has no chance at coming close to anything in the worlds. Like besides making money from sponsors and stuff, if you look at tournament winnings for the team and do the math, these guys are like minimum wage workers. They aren't superstars lmao. What other metrics would we use if not competitive rankings/earnings?
@@wowandrss yeah, results. So a team that placed runner up, and first place in 2/3 of the last lec splits is a mid to low tier lec team? They only really bombed in summer and still went to worlds as the LEC third seat. They legit went to worlds every year theyv been in lec as MAD. So at the very least theyve been top 3 or top 4 in the last 4 years of lol. And im not even counting the success they had with splice. Yes they are a budget team. But for a budget org they've over performed and produced some great players. They don't buy great players, they produce them. Please dont bring up results and math when you're making ignorant statements backed by reddit level analysis xd. Results speak for itself calling a team that has been at least top 4 every year low tier in the lec is straight up factually incorrect.
In my opinion this went totally fine. What did Mac really forget that was super important to say? Constantly drill fundamentals like "you need to sweep now" or "you need to use relic charges", which he didn't do but is also the stuff that you get better at just by playing the game a lot? Instead he was teaching about roam timings, which you never get better at by just playing on auto pilot, read: what half the people calling him out probably do in their low to medium elo games, just perma run down bot and hug adc
Comment to support this series! Very interesting to hear what Mac has to say and always fun to watch Grubby absorb the information super quickly, using his experience from other games to understand the strategic theories in League.
These comments are wild. Coaching is its own skill separate from the activity being coached. Grubby is a well established gamer who needs to understand the ebb and flow of League to catch up. He can always learn abilities and items while playing but seeing and grasping the big picture is so tough that some people who have played continuously for 10 years probably still don't get it. Mac obviously understands how the game works and how to coach. The comments during Grubbys previous games were mostly surface level "you hit the wrong button" or "you bought the wrong item" stuff which wont really help because he doesn't yet have the experience to make split second decisions.
Grubby is an interesting case. I always recommend people starting League to be in a farming role since support is much more macro oriented, requiring game knowledge. With Grubby's dota and wc3 background, he may be able to accelerate his learning experience to that step quickly
Agree but it could be a double edged sword because the game is very different and there might be some habits he carries over that are hard to get rid off. I believe when Pob or Agurin coach him in micro and grubby starts getting more muscle memory allowing him to focus on macro more he will become good very quick.
Support is litteraly one of the easiest roll to have success early. You don't need roams or so to be successful. They would of course optimize your gameplay but just doing good engaged in the Lanning phase and TF is enough to be usefully and climb quite high. Or you play enchanter and just learn how to trade in lane and the rest of the game you hg your carry. There is a reason why the league community calls the roll ELO inflated. Of course as August says a Dia Support is a dis Support but compared to other rolls you need to master less to reach dja
It may have to do with heroes if the storm as well. I came from HotS before I first tried League, I also found myself gravitating to support, a friend of mine has a similar story. Something about Support syncs up with typical HotS gameplay.
@XIplupIX But it doesn't teach real League of legends. It teaches bad habits and how to get carried for a new player. Also in my opinion it's less entertaining to watch
Having seen many GM/Master/Challenger coaches videos before, I can tell Mac is much better at teaching and going very in-depth. His knowledge is pretty vast. He doesn't pick up on a lot of things going on very fast and he admitted to that being his weakness in the previous video. In any case, best pro coach I've seen so far.
this coach is probabably fantastic when it comes to strategy and players who are progamers in this game, but to learn this game for a new player i feel he misses alot of basic stuff as i feel he cant feel himself into a new players mind that good
Im not gonna flame the coach but offer some more insight onto Alistar's kit that is overlooked or unknown by some new players. - Alistar's passive heal not only heals every X amount of kills but every kill/assist as well. - His E is affected by atk speed. Meaning if Alistar has more atk speed, then the chain will fill up faster and get to the auto stun quicker. This is why taking the atk speed set up isn;t entirely bad. - Alistar's R not only makes him super tanky but breaks any CC like a better QSS. So baiting enemies in when they go to CC you, break it with ult and then engage yourself. Breaks Malz and WW ult (QSS does not). - Alistar is very good against Sivir because it's almost impossible for her to block your combo. Although your W doesn't knock the person back, it still registers as an ability for Sivir spellshield, making it almost impossible for her to block your knock up. - Alistar is also very good against Malz with his delayed combo. Unlike Sivir's spellshield, Malz shield has a delay, so doing a delay combo works wonders. W to him and let the spell shield block the knock back and then Q him when shield is done. R breaks Malz ult. - Normal tower diving with Alistar is very easy, engage, pop R and tank the shots while your teammates kill. You can also wrap around towers and W people away from their tower if they are hugging their tower. - You can have a lot of fun Flash Q and W'ing people back away from their tower or into your own tower like a Lee Sin Insec.
I think the coach is super smart and very talented, playing Alistar in a super low elo game isn’t the most fun thing to do thou. On this level I would recommend going for carry role and learn how to snowball out of control😏
kinda right. It's probably easier too climb with hard carrying, but it teaches the wrong mindset for higher ranks. you don't need too carry a game to win. just play a solid game, be better than your counterpart.
Yeah I literally avoid actives cuz I'm too focused on my kit that I forget they are there ... I avoid hourglass for this reason I'll have it but never use it even when it could have saved me. I like passive get out of jail items that trigger on death or near death like shieldbow or guardian angel
@@the_cackling_kobold Terrible habit. I have some friends that have played for years and still can't wrap their heads around pressing 1 extra button to hit a single active item and they really suffer for it... Zhonyas Hourglass remains one of the best items in the game and you're severely limiting yourself if you don't learn at least that. If you play Dota as a support you could easily find all of your item slots have actives... You're probably older than 8. Learn to reach your finger up ONE row to 1-6, i swear it's not hard at all, it's purely a mental block.
Grubby if there is anything to take away from this game is that if you are support, your job is to babysit a nearest teammate. You have to go in and CC a target for them. It is never your job to farm, this isn't dota. You have to roam, ward and gank for your mid and bot. When you see your teammates fighting you should join, unless the fight looks real bad, because your sacrificing your life for a teammate is worth your ally not dying.
Honestly Mac could not have done a better job lol. Grub said it before the game even started that there’d be a gap between getting the info and implementing it, and Mac didn’t throw too much info to handle. Getting a pro coach does NOT mean immediately playing like a pro.
why are people so toxic to the coach i thought it was a fine coaching session grubby learned many useful things were there some things that he didnt do yes but i thought it was a good learning experience.
I just recently discovered your channel because of shotouts on the league subreddit, but loving your attitude towards the game. Reminds me of when I was learning the LoL, probably the most fun I had with the game. A bit of advice as a fellow support enjoyer: While Alistar kit is simple, I don't think the champ itself is the most beginner friendly one. For one, he is the only engage support where you literally need two of your abilities combined to be useful (unless you are peeling, where your W alone is enough). Also his main strenghts (AoE knockup, tankiness) are not necessarily that valuable in low Elo, since fights aren't that coordinated and people don't really understand tower dives either. I would recommend trying Nautilus/Leona instead, they are a bit more straightforward for both yourself and your teammates. You basically hook enemies with them and CC chain them for your teammates.
Seeing lots of negativity so trying finding a middle ground with this comment. While I agree that it's not ideal to have a coach who does not play the game or know all the details, it's very useful to start with a foundation of knowledge based on macro and wave management. I think a lot of new players overfocus on details and miss the fundamentals of waves, so starting with this as a baseline will create good habits and a good fundament to build on. New players tend to ignore waves and this thinking persists way too far up the rankings. By starting with some knowledge of waves and how to make plays on the map, Grubby can excel quickly. He is already a pro gamer with a lot of high level sensibilities and mindsets, so he is capable of understanding the context of the information.
Great content as always, it's good to get some different perspectives in the game. Grubby is wise enough to interpret and build understanding from Mac's advice without taking it as gospel. I think this will be a good start to reflect and get some theory, a solid foundation to build upon.
I thought this was great. It was clear both of them had fun and learned something along the way. Many of the comments I read are all about being as efficient as possible with playing and learning. I think Grubby can process this information much better than any usual newbie. He doesnt seem like the type of guy who will take it as strict rules.
I feel like there's a lot of basics completly overlooked, like explaing vision ranges, what each ward does and how vision works. Even that there's a visual indicator for the relic charges etc.
So one thing I'm looking forward to comparing your sessions between coaches not because Mac is a bad coach or anything. It's just he hasn't played the game himself for ages and I feel input from active players might show differences because of that... Or not. Just smth that's on my mind.
There may be different approaches to the game but also got to remember Mac coaches active top level players daily so it’s not like he’s coaching outdated concepts or anything
@@gboles97 Approach is what I meant to say yeah. I'm not too familiar with EU teams(or really any teams since some players I followed retired) so I didn't really know how deep his track record was tbh
@@gboles97 He doesn't coach active players. He is the manager for vitality, which is more on the business end. Also, he said in the previous game that he hasn't played the game for years. I agree with @AngelCopout that it would be interesting to see Grubby get coached by a current player. Even if it was just like a gold viewer, I think it would be pretty cool.
@@EvanNagao he had been mad lions head coach for the last 4 years until his contract expired this off season. So yes he has been a coach of active players for the past 4 years. Which means he’s been around league coaching top level. Like I said even if he hasn’t played himself he’s still been coaching in a major region so it’s not like he’s out of touch. The only difference between him and say agurin coaching him is just different approaches to the game. Some players are proactive/reactive than others which can be interesting to see which grubby meshes with more.
Grubby keep on going, this is very fun to watch 😊, granted he isn't soloq coach but still this is very fun and will help u later if you can memorize of course ❤
I don't know in Dota, but in League, support is a very selfless role. You live and die by the whims of your carry. You have to know when he's ready to take the fight so you can initiate. You don't soak up exp and gold as much as he should, so he gets fed. All the exp and gold should just do to you is to be more tank, heal more, cc more often, vision more in the map. I don't think playing more games makes people realize this stuff, that's why there's a lot of low elo support players competing in kills with their adc and very proud of being support carry, but I guess it depends on the champion they select, like that Master Yi support the other day... # D for vision
More of the coachinga please :) its fun to Watch even tough i think he shouldve said some more points (place pink ward in baron bit more inside to cover the whole piz with anti vision, sometimes only use W like on Atrox instead of thr ehole combo etc) nevertheless great video 👍🏼
Yeah.... Live game coaching is hard. Especially with stream delay. There's issues with communication lag even when you are in game with the person you are coaching. Definitely if you and Mac are still talking, ask him about his review of this game. Given my comment on the last one, I'm not surprised he needs a little more time to review and analyze what actually happened =p Also, I know he asked for Alistar, but you seem to have fun on bard, I seriously think bard can skip you on to some advanced concepts quickly, wrt roaming and chimes and breakpoints. What other people are noting has a granule of truth, also. His expertise is not necessarily relevant to this point in the game, with your pre30 mmr where everyone who belongs there is running around like headless chickens. He hasn't been there (pre30) in many years, so he isn't willing or able to call a smurf, but at this point anyone who is not running around like a headless chicken is definitely not on their first account. It takes half as long to make level 30 as it used to. Speaking of, smurf ekko for sure lmao. Also, what he said about scanning wards only applies to high level play as well, wards will tend to be random and sporadic before you hit ranked queues. I think you can stand to save your scanners (oracle lens and control wards) specifically for objectives and ganks, and known enemy wards. For example, if you see one placed, you can go back for it in the next minute. Don't use them leaving your base unless your team is getting smashed. Regarding wave management, you can lose a wave if you base or roam too far during the bounce, but 30 seconds is plenty of time to roam for wards, chimes, or an investigation mid.
bro i have to agree these concepts are too hard. like even early on, holding flash for jngler engage instead of dying works at high lvl, but low lvl u can probably just engage onto them anyways and u dont even know if jngler will gank, its just better to flash to live. Like this guy is good but definately not for a new player. i can come up with so many examples where i think he is just straight up wrong. like he is respecting his opponent wayyy too much. Also please make grubby press tab, we kept saying ekko is fed but we have no idea how fed since he never clicked tab ever.
In the previous video about general league meta concepts I think it’s useful for someone like Grubby who is a pro gamer focused around strategic play and wants to be up to speed with League meta concepts and theory. I don’t think his intention is to style on people with mechanics yet (Yas/Yone videos expressed that). He can learn specific champs, gameplay changes, matchups etc. if he plays the game more, getting that info is too specific when he only knows 20 champs in the game. He can learn solo queue carrying techniques when he decides to solo queue ranked and step out of low level quick play, and when he talks to ladder players. Things like how to manage back/roam timings, tower/minion theory and overall context about how the game is won at a high level are probably interesting especially for someone who is already a pro gamer across multiple titles. He has lane/micro solo queue playing coaches lined up which will help him progress those elements.
Hey Grubby , i'm an orphan and It's my birthday today , also my brother/relative is in the hospital and his last wish is to see you play Sion on his stream 😢
He quickly took a look at pyke, and determined it is a character he would not enjoy playing. He did mention je was interested even just a little only because his kit did not look like a support. Grubby is more into cooler characters, he called characters like yasuo "street fighter" where he likes to just play simple ones.
While I'm sure Mac is a good coach, I don't think he's the right coach for Grubby. At this stage, Grubby needs someone to explain the why of what he's doing, whereas Mac exclusively coaches people who already know the why, so is more inclined to skip that part. He's trying though, I'll give him that
Having just watched the Vod on Twitch of the coaching session I have a completely different perception than you tbh. Mac made sure to explain the "why" of the macro decisions pretty much all the time. If he didn't initially he did so after Grub asked him. I think this little session actually did a lot for Grubby.
From watching the video I think the level of engagements that happened early game would beg to differ ... I know he is new but I do think in order to get better he needs a little voice over his shoulder telling him not to engage when his adc is too far away that being said it's hard to tell cuz my god his adc sucked that game.
@@pilotpetrov3855 I think what annoys me most when reading comments like these, is that most people here have never been coached. So their only form of reference is the perfect ideal, or the way they would prefer someone teach them when they first started off. Both of which are impossible to achieve. Just have fun, Grubby isnt trying to go pro, there is no rush.
Item spikes in League are like if you went to the marketplace in WC3 and bought a single item for 5,000 gold that was an Orb of Corruption, a claws +20, and 2 gloves of haste all mashed together into one item. After you bought that item on your Lich, you'd just run into the enemy and slaughter because you're so strong now on a single character.
Pretty painful watch if i'm being honest. It's interesting to see the massive disconnect between high level coaching and basic concepts. In the end i'm not sure how useful this coaching is to a new player. Grubby needs a coach to teach the basic concepts first such as trading, wave manipulation, windows to punish as well as a general knowledge of all champs in the game. This is like trying to teach someone advanced algebra before knowing basic math. While some concepts may stick and be helpful in the future a much more basic understanding is needed first. As a side note this coach while fantastic at high level (as proven by his results) could actually be harmful as he clearly doesn't understand how to play the game at a micro level. Like he didn't know a control ward is 4 hits. It hasn't been 5 for some time. These are the details that need to be learned before taking in overarching concepts.
It's funny to see how little and old dated ingame knowledge Mac has compared to how good he is as a coach. I guess if your players know all the in game mechanics you don't need to teach them that anymore. I bet his macro (how to teamfight and move around the map) is very good but it's harder to teach a new player that is learning micro(controlling your champion).
I don't mean to be negative but this was straight up not a good coaching session. Someone like alois or neace would be a way better match with grubby. While Mac seems like a great guy with a understanding of the game that far exceeds mine and probably both neace and alois' depth as well, this was just not a good pairing. Neace got a lot of hate but he was experienced and adept at coaching the basics of the game to low elo players in a way Mac is not. I'm sorry to say I don't think Grubby is a significantly better player for this coaching.
Because the only anti-heal item Alistar can feasibly buy is Thornmail, and Aatrox isn't going to be hitting him. It's honestly way better for one of the carries to get it.
I'm sure he's trying his best but it really feels like he has no experience coaching newer players. The things he's trying to teach are a bit advanced for someone with minimal knowledge. If you do another coaching session picking someone who has experience with lower elo coaching would be good. I would recommend the Broken By Concept guys
Maybe you should start by getting coached in the champion first before learning pro macro plays. You can roam as much as you want and do absolutely nothing if I can't even execute a simple Alistar combo. Alistar is the most simple champ, yet you see, that grubby does not know how he works sadly. That should be the first thing to learn. His Q and W are separate skills btw
Terrible coaching for someone on your skill level you should try it again with someone else :( i was so hyped to see you learn some stuff but this was very underwhelming
its fine he doing a good job ... 5 hits on ward vs 4 is not a big deal. also not every coach has to blast someone for mistakes. its low level games we watching they gonna be wacky from all sides, part of the reason i love that he showing this, reminds me of when i played with da boys in a 5 stack and i was the only person that had played the game before, it was like trying to pilot a ship with a crew trying to sink the ship the entire time. it was chaotic but in a good way.
@@the_cackling_koboldThese comments keep saying, he's a bad coach. But never why, cause Mac is a good coach, I dont see him doing anything wrong, or missing the basics.
bruh people ripping on this coach man, like its fine, technical knowledge of the current game vs being able to teach the principles to someone doesnt exactly translate. i would say i know alot about league but i suck at teaching people the game
Oh, then why is it that the momment he left, grubby started started losing? Mac told him some real good macro advices, but its not so easy to replicate.
@@cap-ml7ky any coaching of a newer player is probably going to help them in the games where the coach can call out things live. This creates a little elo bubble that leads to correction in a few of the games after they no longer have that resource.
The thing is, this dude is probably a great coach, but I think he doesn't really understand how to coach someone this new to the game. Like there are a lot of fundamental things that I feel like he's missing when coaching Grubby.
Everyone is ripping on this coach but I think this critic is acceptable ... Most people writing off as bad but I agree that he might be more used to people with the basics down ready to go to that next level
Should have accepted the offer from Pobelter. Guy who is still actually playing the game.
@@ajy12345 That would be so sick!
When the coach said in the last video he hasn't played league in over 10 years his credibility went out the window.
ur wrong :(
videos like this are always going to be tough for viewers because there is alot of nuance that is never talked about or made obvious. mac is a wonderful coach but his experience is in coaching professional players, so his lines of thinking and the things he chooses to "coach" you on may be more geared towards the typical pro player. at the same time, Grubby is not your average player, and he is certainly not your average new player. Grubby is a pro in his own right, just not in this game. He already has many years of skills and habits built up that you can identify across every game he plays. This can make it hard to call out Mac for not correcting or preventing something Grubby did, (even though casual viewers will do just that) when the reality is that Grubby is, at times, a very spontaneous, sometimes impulsive player. He wants to be where the action is and although he is quite analytical, he doesn't have the practice yet in League to make fast analytical decisions like he does in other games.
tl:dr;
Mac did nothing wrong; he is used to coaching pro players, not new players. Grubby did many things wrong, but the things he did wrong are the kinds of things he should be doing when he can execute them better. The full vod gave a better picture, but maybe not the wisest pairing of coach and newb.
Well said
I would've loved to hear something exciting from the coach, any insight, but there was none. I have no way of knowing how useful of a coach he is to his players, but based on what we saw from the two videos, it's just some guy who climbed the ladder years ago and that's it. I think that's the issue with what most people have, it's just some B-tier coach when everyone wanted A-S+ tier coaching.
@@wowandrss lmao ppl here don't know who mac is? he's legitimately one of the best coaches in europe. I would only really put peter dunn or dylan falco above him in terms of how valuable to a team he is but all 3 of them have very different strenghts. people overestimate what can be done in a single game. Some of his advice just won't come fully into fruition in nooby games where people don't yet know what their champs do. He's not going to catch every single detail because it won't stick anyway. and this is also not the type of coaching he normally does. Mac is one of the best coaches at making teams work a lot of his teams have been very successfull and quite a few star players made their breakthroughs under his coaching. I actually learned some things from this and i'm quite good at the game myself. there's very little good quality support coaching that focuses on vision and warding / roaming. And hearing the reasoning for doing certain things can be usefull. I never took into account backing on cannon waves, i always just did it on feeling. Also i trust what this guy says on support a lot. He just came off off a year where he coached hyllisang. Hyllisang has been a least top 2 support in the west for like a decade. Even if just a little bit of that mans brain sipped into the coaching that's extremely valuable insight. Ironically there are a lot of B-Tier coaches, mac just isn't one of them. the B tier ones are usually found making youtube content for entertainment value. Or they're on teams that aren't successful. Mac's been very succesful, One of the few coaches where you're confident they can get top 4 with any line up no matter the budget.
Mac ironically is an A-S+ tier coach. But people probably would be happier with a champ specific coach. Someone like Bwipo who focusses a lot more on playing specific champions and matchups in lane. And teaching people how to play a specific champion. Personally i think for support focussing on concepts like this is way more valuable as laning is very difficult to teach since it's a duo lane and very matchup dependent. Teaching grubby to ward properly and to play around carries alone can get you to gold lmao. Playing around a fed carry is probably the easiest way to climb in league.
@@rv3427 When looking at how his teams have performed in the LEC and worlds vs other teams, I can't say i'm any more impressed. Mad Lions is a bottom tier LEC team. We just might have different standards. You might consider him S tier because he's a coach in the LEC while I see a team struggling in the LEC that has no chance at coming close to anything in the worlds. Like besides making money from sponsors and stuff, if you look at tournament winnings for the team and do the math, these guys are like minimum wage workers. They aren't superstars lmao. What other metrics would we use if not competitive rankings/earnings?
@@wowandrss yeah, results. So a team that placed runner up, and first place in 2/3 of the last lec splits is a mid to low tier lec team? They only really bombed in summer and still went to worlds as the LEC third seat.
They legit went to worlds every year theyv been in lec as MAD. So at the very least theyve been top 3 or top 4 in the last 4 years of lol. And im not even counting the success they had with splice. Yes they are a budget team. But for a budget org they've over performed and produced some great players. They don't buy great players, they produce them.
Please dont bring up results and math when you're making ignorant statements backed by reddit level analysis xd. Results speak for itself calling a team that has been at least top 4 every year low tier in the lec is straight up factually incorrect.
In my opinion this went totally fine. What did Mac really forget that was super important to say? Constantly drill fundamentals like "you need to sweep now" or "you need to use relic charges", which he didn't do but is also the stuff that you get better at just by playing the game a lot? Instead he was teaching about roam timings, which you never get better at by just playing on auto pilot, read: what half the people calling him out probably do in their low to medium elo games, just perma run down bot and hug adc
Comment to support this series! Very interesting to hear what Mac has to say and always fun to watch Grubby absorb the information super quickly, using his experience from other games to understand the strategic theories in League.
These comments are wild. Coaching is its own skill separate from the activity being coached. Grubby is a well established gamer who needs to understand the ebb and flow of League to catch up. He can always learn abilities and items while playing but seeing and grasping the big picture is so tough that some people who have played continuously for 10 years probably still don't get it. Mac obviously understands how the game works and how to coach. The comments during Grubbys previous games were mostly surface level "you hit the wrong button" or "you bought the wrong item" stuff which wont really help because he doesn't yet have the experience to make split second decisions.
Grubby is an interesting case. I always recommend people starting League to be in a farming role since support is much more macro oriented, requiring game knowledge.
With Grubby's dota and wc3 background, he may be able to accelerate his learning experience to that step quickly
Agree but it could be a double edged sword because the game is very different and there might be some habits he carries over that are hard to get rid off. I believe when Pob or Agurin coach him in micro and grubby starts getting more muscle memory allowing him to focus on macro more he will become good very quick.
Support is litteraly one of the easiest roll to have success early. You don't need roams or so to be successful. They would of course optimize your gameplay but just doing good engaged in the Lanning phase and TF is enough to be usefully and climb quite high. Or you play enchanter and just learn how to trade in lane and the rest of the game you hg your carry. There is a reason why the league community calls the roll ELO inflated. Of course as August says a Dia Support is a dis Support but compared to other rolls you need to master less to reach dja
It may have to do with heroes if the storm as well. I came from HotS before I first tried League, I also found myself gravitating to support, a friend of mine has a similar story. Something about Support syncs up with typical HotS gameplay.
@XIplupIX But it doesn't teach real League of legends. It teaches bad habits and how to get carried for a new player.
Also in my opinion it's less entertaining to watch
anything but yuumi, dont even unlock her
Mac is such a cool guy! So patient with grubby 😂😂
Also using warcraft references for teaching grubby is so cool 😂🤘
Having seen many GM/Master/Challenger coaches videos before, I can tell Mac is much better at teaching and going very in-depth. His knowledge is pretty vast. He doesn't pick up on a lot of things going on very fast and he admitted to that being his weakness in the previous video. In any case, best pro coach I've seen so far.
Loved this! Thank you Mac for giving your time to this collaboration. I appreciate it a lot
this coach is probabably fantastic when it comes to strategy and players who are progamers in this game, but to learn this game for a new player i feel he misses alot of basic stuff as i feel he cant feel himself into a new players mind that good
Im totally into this pro coaching series, by a real pro coach to a real pro player
The final stats screen had so many amazing gems. Xayah less dmg than Alistar. Nasus building thornmail into Ekko.
And nasus less damage than xayah
Im not gonna flame the coach but offer some more insight onto Alistar's kit that is overlooked or unknown by some new players.
- Alistar's passive heal not only heals every X amount of kills but every kill/assist as well.
- His E is affected by atk speed. Meaning if Alistar has more atk speed, then the chain will fill up faster and get to the auto stun quicker. This is why taking the atk speed set up isn;t entirely bad.
- Alistar's R not only makes him super tanky but breaks any CC like a better QSS. So baiting enemies in when they go to CC you, break it with ult and then engage yourself. Breaks Malz and WW ult (QSS does not).
- Alistar is very good against Sivir because it's almost impossible for her to block your combo. Although your W doesn't knock the person back, it still registers as an ability for Sivir spellshield, making it almost impossible for her to block your knock up.
- Alistar is also very good against Malz with his delayed combo. Unlike Sivir's spellshield, Malz shield has a delay, so doing a delay combo works wonders. W to him and let the spell shield block the knock back and then Q him when shield is done. R breaks Malz ult.
- Normal tower diving with Alistar is very easy, engage, pop R and tank the shots while your teammates kill. You can also wrap around towers and W people away from their tower if they are hugging their tower.
- You can have a lot of fun Flash Q and W'ing people back away from their tower or into your own tower like a Lee Sin Insec.
I think the coach is super smart and very talented, playing Alistar in a super low elo game isn’t the most fun thing to do thou. On this level I would recommend going for carry role and learn how to snowball out of control😏
kinda right. It's probably easier too climb with hard carrying, but it teaches the wrong mindset for higher ranks. you don't need too carry a game to win. just play a solid game, be better than your counterpart.
He uses actives so often this game it's amazing 😂
Yeah I literally avoid actives cuz I'm too focused on my kit that I forget they are there ... I avoid hourglass for this reason I'll have it but never use it even when it could have saved me. I like passive get out of jail items that trigger on death or near death like shieldbow or guardian angel
@@the_cackling_kobold Terrible habit. I have some friends that have played for years and still can't wrap their heads around pressing 1 extra button to hit a single active item and they really suffer for it... Zhonyas Hourglass remains one of the best items in the game and you're severely limiting yourself if you don't learn at least that. If you play Dota as a support you could easily find all of your item slots have actives... You're probably older than 8. Learn to reach your finger up ONE row to 1-6, i swear it's not hard at all, it's purely a mental block.
@@kirktown2046 nah I'm good
@@the_cackling_kobold Yep, no surprise. NA underachievers, learn nothing, ff 15.
@@kirktown2046 Dude is so toxic in league he's asking to ff on a youtube comment lmao
Grubby if there is anything to take away from this game is that if you are support, your job is to babysit a nearest teammate. You have to go in and CC a target for them. It is never your job to farm, this isn't dota. You have to roam, ward and gank for your mid and bot. When you see your teammates fighting you should join, unless the fight looks real bad, because your sacrificing your life for a teammate is worth your ally not dying.
Also put your Flash on F so you stop fat fingering it.
21:03 love how he pointed into the camera with his finger xd
Really chill guy
Honestly Mac could not have done a better job lol.
Grub said it before the game even started that there’d be a gap between getting the info and implementing it, and Mac didn’t throw too much info to handle.
Getting a pro coach does NOT mean immediately playing like a pro.
why are people so toxic to the coach i thought it was a fine coaching session grubby learned many useful things were there some things that he didnt do yes but i thought it was a good learning experience.
I just recently discovered your channel because of shotouts on the league subreddit, but loving your attitude towards the game. Reminds me of when I was learning the LoL, probably the most fun I had with the game.
A bit of advice as a fellow support enjoyer: While Alistar kit is simple, I don't think the champ itself is the most beginner friendly one. For one, he is the only engage support where you literally need two of your abilities combined to be useful (unless you are peeling, where your W alone is enough). Also his main strenghts (AoE knockup, tankiness) are not necessarily that valuable in low Elo, since fights aren't that coordinated and people don't really understand tower dives either.
I would recommend trying Nautilus/Leona instead, they are a bit more straightforward for both yourself and your teammates. You basically hook enemies with them and CC chain them for your teammates.
Both episodes were absolutely great! Full of knowledge and funny moments. 10/10 thanks!
Seeing lots of negativity so trying finding a middle ground with this comment. While I agree that it's not ideal to have a coach who does not play the game or know all the details, it's very useful to start with a foundation of knowledge based on macro and wave management. I think a lot of new players overfocus on details and miss the fundamentals of waves, so starting with this as a baseline will create good habits and a good fundament to build on. New players tend to ignore waves and this thinking persists way too far up the rankings. By starting with some knowledge of waves and how to make plays on the map, Grubby can excel quickly. He is already a pro gamer with a lot of high level sensibilities and mindsets, so he is capable of understanding the context of the information.
Great content as always, it's good to get some different perspectives in the game. Grubby is wise enough to interpret and build understanding from Mac's advice without taking it as gospel. I think this will be a good start to reflect and get some theory, a solid foundation to build upon.
I thought this was great. It was clear both of them had fun and learned something along the way. Many of the comments I read are all about being as efficient as possible with playing and learning. I think Grubby can process this information much better than any usual newbie. He doesnt seem like the type of guy who will take it as strict rules.
I feel like there's a lot of basics completly overlooked, like explaing vision ranges, what each ward does and how vision works. Even that there's a visual indicator for the relic charges etc.
So one thing I'm looking forward to comparing your sessions between coaches not because Mac is a bad coach or anything. It's just he hasn't played the game himself for ages and I feel input from active players might show differences because of that... Or not. Just smth that's on my mind.
There may be different approaches to the game but also got to remember Mac coaches active top level players daily so it’s not like he’s coaching outdated concepts or anything
@@gboles97 Approach is what I meant to say yeah. I'm not too familiar with EU teams(or really any teams since some players I followed retired) so I didn't really know how deep his track record was tbh
@@gboles97 He doesn't coach active players. He is the manager for vitality, which is more on the business end. Also, he said in the previous game that he hasn't played the game for years. I agree with @AngelCopout that it would be interesting to see Grubby get coached by a current player. Even if it was just like a gold viewer, I think it would be pretty cool.
@@EvanNagao he had been mad lions head coach for the last 4 years until his contract expired this off season. So yes he has been a coach of active players for the past 4 years. Which means he’s been around league coaching top level. Like I said even if he hasn’t played himself he’s still been coaching in a major region so it’s not like he’s out of touch. The only difference between him and say agurin coaching him is just different approaches to the game. Some players are proactive/reactive than others which can be interesting to see which grubby meshes with more.
This was great! I learned a lot and it was very entertaining. I love when grubby finds a good coach
Honeslty I thought Mac's coaching was brilliant, and I think Grubby is good enough at games to understand what to take from it
30:00 flash for the canon approved
Mac explains things very clearly and logically. Interesting for me who has been playing the game for over 13 years but more in a casual way. 🙂
I learnt a lot from this video, especially from the 20 minute mark.
Exciting! can't wait to watch his progresss
Cool to see a coaching session, would love to see you get coached by Neace!
Love this video, I’m hoping you even try more coaches in the future to keep learning this game!
Grubby keep on going, this is very fun to watch 😊, granted he isn't soloq coach but still this is very fun and will help u later if you can memorize of course ❤
Fun watch thanks grub!
I don't know in Dota, but in League, support is a very selfless role. You live and die by the whims of your carry. You have to know when he's ready to take the fight so you can initiate. You don't soak up exp and gold as much as he should, so he gets fed. All the exp and gold should just do to you is to be more tank, heal more, cc more often, vision more in the map. I don't think playing more games makes people realize this stuff, that's why there's a lot of low elo support players competing in kills with their adc and very proud of being support carry, but I guess it depends on the champion they select, like that Master Yi support the other day...
# D for vision
There are generally 2 support roles in Dota, one extremely selfless and other is flexible. But that may not be true for every match.
More of the coachinga please :) its fun to Watch even tough i think he shouldve said some more points (place pink ward in baron bit more inside to cover the whole piz with anti vision, sometimes only use W like on Atrox instead of thr ehole combo etc) nevertheless great video 👍🏼
Awesome series!
I feel like support wasn't the best role for this coaching. Something like top would be alot easier to coach more basic things
Yeah.... Live game coaching is hard. Especially with stream delay. There's issues with communication lag even when you are in game with the person you are coaching. Definitely if you and Mac are still talking, ask him about his review of this game. Given my comment on the last one, I'm not surprised he needs a little more time to review and analyze what actually happened =p
Also, I know he asked for Alistar, but you seem to have fun on bard, I seriously think bard can skip you on to some advanced concepts quickly, wrt roaming and chimes and breakpoints.
What other people are noting has a granule of truth, also. His expertise is not necessarily relevant to this point in the game, with your pre30 mmr where everyone who belongs there is running around like headless chickens. He hasn't been there (pre30) in many years, so he isn't willing or able to call a smurf, but at this point anyone who is not running around like a headless chicken is definitely not on their first account. It takes half as long to make level 30 as it used to. Speaking of, smurf ekko for sure lmao.
Also, what he said about scanning wards only applies to high level play as well, wards will tend to be random and sporadic before you hit ranked queues. I think you can stand to save your scanners (oracle lens and control wards) specifically for objectives and ganks, and known enemy wards. For example, if you see one placed, you can go back for it in the next minute. Don't use them leaving your base unless your team is getting smashed.
Regarding wave management, you can lose a wave if you base or roam too far during the bounce, but 30 seconds is plenty of time to roam for wards, chimes, or an investigation mid.
This guy is not the right person to coach you, AloisNL offered to coach you on stream some time ago and he would be a much better fit for you
some people are saying this coach isnt the best option since he is a pro player coach but i think he is pretty good
MORE!
Yone is a scaling champ, no matter how many deaths he managed to have, he can always come back around
bro i have to agree these concepts are too hard. like even early on, holding flash for jngler engage instead of dying works at high lvl, but low lvl u can probably just engage onto them anyways and u dont even know if jngler will gank, its just better to flash to live. Like this guy is good but definately not for a new player. i can come up with so many examples where i think he is just straight up wrong. like he is respecting his opponent wayyy too much.
Also please make grubby press tab, we kept saying ekko is fed but we have no idea how fed since he never clicked tab ever.
In the previous video about general league meta concepts I think it’s useful for someone like Grubby who is a pro gamer focused around strategic play and wants to be up to speed with League meta concepts and theory. I don’t think his intention is to style on people with mechanics yet (Yas/Yone videos expressed that).
He can learn specific champs, gameplay changes, matchups etc. if he plays the game more, getting that info is too specific when he only knows 20 champs in the game. He can learn solo queue carrying techniques when he decides to solo queue ranked and step out of low level quick play, and when he talks to ladder players. Things like how to manage back/roam timings, tower/minion theory and overall context about how the game is won at a high level are probably interesting especially for someone who is already a pro gamer across multiple titles.
He has lane/micro solo queue playing coaches lined up which will help him progress those elements.
Great video
Hey Grubby , i'm an orphan and It's my birthday today , also my brother/relative is in the hospital and his last wish is to see you play Sion on his stream 😢
You should try Nautilus Grubby.. hes very tanky.
if u enjoy playing support try pyke and rakan both have a fun playstyle
He quickly took a look at pyke, and determined it is a character he would not enjoy playing. He did mention je was interested even just a little only because his kit did not look like a support.
Grubby is more into cooler characters, he called characters like yasuo "street fighter" where he likes to just play simple ones.
While I'm sure Mac is a good coach, I don't think he's the right coach for Grubby. At this stage, Grubby needs someone to explain the why of what he's doing, whereas Mac exclusively coaches people who already know the why, so is more inclined to skip that part. He's trying though, I'll give him that
Having just watched the Vod on Twitch of the coaching session I have a completely different perception than you tbh. Mac made sure to explain the "why" of the macro decisions pretty much all the time. If he didn't initially he did so after Grub asked him. I think this little session actually did a lot for Grubby.
From watching the video I think the level of engagements that happened early game would beg to differ ... I know he is new but I do think in order to get better he needs a little voice over his shoulder telling him not to engage when his adc is too far away that being said it's hard to tell cuz my god his adc sucked that game.
@@pilotpetrov3855 I think what annoys me most when reading comments like these, is that most people here have never been coached. So their only form of reference is the perfect ideal, or the way they would prefer someone teach them when they first started off. Both of which are impossible to achieve. Just have fun, Grubby isnt trying to go pro, there is no rush.
@@cap-ml7ky Exactly
Item spikes in League are like if you went to the marketplace in WC3 and bought a single item for 5,000 gold that was an Orb of Corruption, a claws +20, and 2 gloves of haste all mashed together into one item. After you bought that item on your Lich, you'd just run into the enemy and slaughter because you're so strong now on a single character.
Mac telling him to do stuff and grubby ignoring him tilted me, mac's great...grubby is really an hard student.
This Xayah needs more coaching than Grubby
Big Grubbington on da cow 🐮
Pretty painful watch if i'm being honest. It's interesting to see the massive disconnect between high level coaching and basic concepts.
In the end i'm not sure how useful this coaching is to a new player. Grubby needs a coach to teach the basic concepts first such as trading, wave manipulation, windows to punish as well as a general knowledge of all champs in the game.
This is like trying to teach someone advanced algebra before knowing basic math. While some concepts may stick and be helpful in the future a much more basic understanding is needed first.
As a side note this coach while fantastic at high level (as proven by his results) could actually be harmful as he clearly doesn't understand how to play the game at a micro level. Like he didn't know a control ward is 4 hits. It hasn't been 5 for some time. These are the details that need to be learned before taking in overarching concepts.
Grubby isn't new to mobas and this is just a smaller part from a longer stream.
5:57 😅"hello world i am single"
what? i didnt get the joke
@@skinef2958 rakan killed xayah (his gf/wife).
This game wasn't looking so great early on. I think coach Mac's macro advice had a big effect on the outcome. Do they call him "Mac Macro", I wonder?
AloisNL coaching please!
yone did a good job too
It's funny to see how little and old dated ingame knowledge Mac has compared to how good he is as a coach. I guess if your players know all the in game mechanics you don't need to teach them that anymore. I bet his macro (how to teamfight and move around the map) is very good but it's harder to teach a new player that is learning micro(controlling your champion).
why go to pro players when you can collab with a real one trick mains that are streamer who knows 1000% of the champion' and their match ups
I don't mean to be negative but this was straight up not a good coaching session. Someone like alois or neace would be a way better match with grubby. While Mac seems like a great guy with a understanding of the game that far exceeds mine and probably both neace and alois' depth as well, this was just not a good pairing.
Neace got a lot of hate but he was experienced and adept at coaching the basics of the game to low elo players in a way Mac is not.
I'm sorry to say I don't think Grubby is a significantly better player for this coaching.
Bailaa troli bailaaa
Rakan w is just alistair wq lol… obviously you can play the two spells better but the way grubby was playing them 1 ability > 2
SIX ELEVEN SIXTEEN
i dont understand why did he tell him not to buy antiheal when enemy's most fed person is aatrox
Because the only anti-heal item Alistar can feasibly buy is Thornmail, and Aatrox isn't going to be hitting him. It's honestly way better for one of the carries to get it.
It makes 0 sense to put your anti heal on the fkin alistar, especially early
He did tell him to ignite the Aatrox for antiheal.
I'm sure he's trying his best but it really feels like he has no experience coaching newer players. The things he's trying to teach are a bit advanced for someone with minimal knowledge. If you do another coaching session picking someone who has experience with lower elo coaching would be good. I would recommend the Broken By Concept guys
none of the concepts he taught were advanced for an immortal rank dota player.
Maybe you should start by getting coached in the champion first before learning pro macro plays. You can roam as much as you want and do absolutely nothing if I can't even execute a simple Alistar combo.
Alistar is the most simple champ, yet you see, that grubby does not know how he works sadly. That should be the first thing to learn. His Q and W are separate skills btw
One
Terrible coaching for someone on your skill level you should try it again with someone else :( i was so hyped to see you learn some stuff but this was very underwhelming
im level 300 if you need a teamate ... i can play any position
please get someone else to coach you
its fine he doing a good job ... 5 hits on ward vs 4 is not a big deal. also not every coach has to blast someone for mistakes. its low level games we watching they gonna be wacky from all sides, part of the reason i love that he showing this, reminds me of when i played with da boys in a 5 stack and i was the only person that had played the game before, it was like trying to pilot a ship with a crew trying to sink the ship the entire time. it was chaotic but in a good way.
Alois is gonna coach him on the 28th this month so dw he'll get good live coaching soon.
@@the_cackling_koboldThese comments keep saying, he's a bad coach. But never why, cause Mac is a good coach, I dont see him doing anything wrong, or missing the basics.
Yikes, this guy is an LEC coach?
bad couch
he dont play in this game and giving a bad advice
Hes more of a sofa.
bruh people ripping on this coach man, like its fine, technical knowledge of the current game vs being able to teach the principles to someone doesnt exactly translate. i would say i know alot about league but i suck at teaching people the game
Oh, then why is it that the momment he left, grubby started started losing? Mac told him some real good macro advices, but its not so easy to replicate.
guys he's trolling xdd
@@cap-ml7ky any coaching of a newer player is probably going to help them in the games where the coach can call out things live. This creates a little elo bubble that leads to correction in a few of the games after they no longer have that resource.