How Japan Managed To Launch Rockets Into Orbit Without Steering
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Japan was the 4th country to launch a satellite into orbit using their own launch vehicle and they managed to do this despite not being able to use any guidance systems on their early rockets because of legal prohibitions on weapons development which included long range rockets. This meant using a clever launch system that placed the rocket at the correct angle to begin a gravity turn to take them to space.
JAXA's story on the Pencil rocket development
global.jaxa.jp...
Jonathan McDowell's paper on the Kappa and Lambda sounding rockets.
www.planet4589...
JAXA's own site on these launch vehicles.
www.isas.jaxa....
Open Aerospace details about Lambda 4s
open-aerospace...
Norbert Brugge's Spacerockets site on Japan's launch vehicles.
www.b14643.de/S...
My own video on the SS-520 from a few years ago
• The Smallest Rocket - ...
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Limitations breed innovation. Japan needed unguided stages, so they designed advanced passive stabilization. The soviets had limitations imposed by rail travel, so they designed rockets that look like bundles of straws. Innovative ideas to get around seemingly arbitrary problems is my favourite part of engineering.
I said this on a Curious Droid video the other day! Reminds me of game developers on the PS1 that were developing Silent Hill couldnt have the draw distance they wanted so they added the fog which is a huge part of what makes the game creepy but was a creative idea to get around the limitation of the hardware
The same point applies to a lot of things. Art, music, poetry. Video games. Limitations can be incredibly productive. Personal development: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, sometimes. Biological evolution can even happen when a limitation creates an adaptation which is then repurposed for something else. Communities only cohere when faced with some obstacle, some common purpose in which everyone can participate, and in turn they are shaped by the nature of the limitation and their way of solving it. The one sure way of halting progress and creating decay is to remove all meaning and all limitation, to cater to every need and desire /from outside/. Maximising human potential is not simply about solving limitations, although ending abject poverty may be the first step. It is about maximising participation in the solution to those problems. (And that raises questions about ownership, different forms of democracy, corporations and the state alike. But I don't pretend to know the answer.)
A lot of the Soviets' rocket advancements during the Cold War came from them being less advanced in nuclear weaponry. They were behind the US in warhead miniaturization technology, and so had to develop beefier ICBM rockets to be able to deliver the heavier payloads. This led to them beating the US in so many space race milestones.
"bundles of straws"
Reminds me of my little amateur rockets, only the straws (they were literally straw-segments) served in the place of 3 fins, one of which doubling as the lug for the launch-rod.
Amazon needed to send stuff to orbit so they got creative and contracted ULA and arianespace to do so.
"It took them 5 times to make this work"
That's genuinely impressive
Only 5?
@@DavidEdwards9801 It was actually 6, since there was the three-stage L-4T (Test) after the first several failures. They were trying to work out the problems they'd had with the first three stages, using something with a different name and that couldn't possibly reach orbit... so when it failed that wouldn't count against them. But it succeeded, and with a fourth stage might have gotten them into orbit. Meanwhile, the next "official" L-4S attempt failed.
That background looks like a bachelor's living room
orbital rocket speedrun
While ASTRA still not failing us to show how they fail
I think it’s funny how the Japanese rocket was designed to not be a weapon, yet it look most missile like of any orbital rocket I’ve seen.
Be glad its not shaped like a....
its not weapon , yet
Yea, because it is pointy it is scary. A missile that not pointy is not scary. Round is not scary.
@@Ortagonation Well said admirable Gen. Aladeen.
But this is a bit funny to me. Put something on orbit is already the half of the problem. If you want to harm someone, the rest is just control the payload re-entry in one piece. Anyway, control the re-entry point is must if you don’t want to drop your obsoleted Sat to someone’s garden.
So what is the point of that limitation?
Seems pretty logical; Europe is in the center, so it's launching straight up, Japan is all the way to the edge so they have to launch tilted.. and Australia is on the other side so they launch their rockets with the nose pointed towards the ground.
*Rocketlab has left the chat*
Entirely arbitrary! If you looked at the world properly, Europe would be Down Under.
l o l b e c a u s e
How do Australians avoid falling off the planet without seatbelts?
@@RCAvhstape >> A question for the ages. Truly.
As a child I watched in the middle of the 80's a documentary about the exploration of Halleys Comet.
They showed as well the launch of the Japanese spacecraft and I remember that I asked my father: "Why are the Japanese launching their rockets sideways?"
... My fathers answer was: "Because it is a small rocket." 🤣
Thank you for helping me understanding my (or rather my fathers) misconception after such a long time!
Fly safe!✌
😊😊
Fathers have all the answers to all questions dont you ever forget that.
Thank you for allowing everyone to look at rocket launches from a different angle.
Thank you for abusing my cranium with that pun. I blame you for the dent in my desk.
That was acute pun!
@@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT Obtuse people won't get it.
@@lo1bo2 That clearly triggered a reflex reaction.
@@lo1bo2 Who are theta criticize anyway
Absurdly high stage count? Insane twr? Spin stabilization? Sounds like my early rp1 career. That the Japanese made this work in real life gets my utmost respect.
I know right? 5 attempts to make it to orbit? I needed many more attempts to reach the same in RP-1.
"The (M-4S) second stage lacks those fins. I believe it must have been spin-stabilized?" [9:40] That too, but the M-20 second stage's stabilization was actually unique among space boosters. There were six things which happened at one-second intervals following first-stage burnout: Upper (cone) payload fairing jettison; Lower (cylinder) payload fairing jettison; First stage separation; Second stage spinup (six internal motors just below the transition section having exposed 90-deg nozzles); Split flares open; Second stage ignition.
It was the "split flares" (often called simply "flares") which were unique. These were six panels which comprised the bottom of the second stage's exterior and were hinged at their tops. After staging, a piston behind each one pushed it out to a 38-deg angle, approximating a cone-like geometry and thus providing additional stability.
In typical ISAS fashion, the concept was proven through a series of progressively larger/higher-fidelity tests: Wind tunnel 10%-scale models; The flares in their deployed geometry affixed to a 160 mm IIRC sounding rocket (presumably to determine basic aero coefficients); Operating split flares which appeared to be sized for flight on a Kappa rocket (if true, 420 mm and so about 1/3-scale); The real deal flown on the M-3D (M-4S minus live fourth stage) suborbital test flight which preceeded M-4S-1.
Thank you!
When you think of the restrictions the Japanese had, they had to work harder and think more critically than other nations to get into orbit. That really is impressive.
There are more examples in Japan of that grindset
Yeah but unfortunately, modern Japan is non risk taking entity. Therefore, it takes years for them to actually do anything without tons of approvals. A real shame really.
Yes, but in history the Japanese and Chinese have been notorious for stealing information and secrets from other countries than reverse engineer from there. Not trying to dock them at all but pretty amazing seeing humans figure out these problems
@@Voron_Aggrav yes. Such as their genocide and torture camps. Takes a lot of grit, to toss babies around and try and catch them on your bayonet.
@@junrosamura645 no. It’s not a shame. Last time they were willing to take risk, they put hitler and Stalin to shame
"Anybody can build a bridge that stands. It takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands."
- IDK where I heard that
thats awesome haha
Nobody does this content as good as you do. Thanks for your work Scott.
Imagine leasing out your airbnb and Scott Manley shows up, id be extra sensitive on how my house looks
@@matttzzz2Why? I'd be extra critical, period.
Almost any "scientist" who seeks the public dummy validation is a quack.
Always do your own research.
The striking thing for me is just how good the photograph of every step along the way are. Very sharp and colorful. It really goes to show how much of an industrial and engineering powerhouse Japan was becoming post-WWII.
Shots like 10:49 look straight out of a movie!
So Scott, you say it took them 5 attempts with that 4.5 stage launch vehicle to get that first satellite into orbit... I am properly impressed that they did it in only 5 attempts with that crazy, complicated launch profile! As you stated, first they had to set the launch vehicle at the exact angle to match the required orbital profile that would allow the satellite to get to LEO. If that went right, the next stages had to be spun up to remain stabilised & on target, then before the next stage sep, it had to be de-spun, then separated, then spun back up for stabilization and perfect LEO Insertion.
At 9:00 "It took them five attempts"
*IRL attempts*
I still can't do it in KSP after two dozen attempts.
Have you tried adding more boosters?
@@TheKrillWillRule Also, make sure to check your staging.
@@renerpho also make sure to pick up a few aerospace engineering textbooks and a orbital mechanics text book
I like the history of rockets so much !! Thank you for that. A lot of great, to me unknown, information.
I really would like to see a video of the Diamant Rocket launched by France for example.
Thank you Scott ! :)
If you haven't seen it you should watch his video on Rocket fuels and read the book that he references. Pretty incredible stuff.
This story is truly amazing, as people ultimately involved in the Japanese war machine managed to reinvent themselves and carried out something extraordinary, given the complications.
As opposed to those involved in the Nazi war machine who ended up being given jobs at NASA.
@@vaska00762 Both the US and the Soviet Union fetched them, to the point of having their own versions of the V-2. Japan effectively started from scratch
@@Deamon93IT that's true - not just their own copies, but captured V2s as well. Peenemünde was the R&D and manufacturing facility for the Nazis in WWII. Both the V1 and V2 were manufactured there. It's a fantastic facility to visit someday when the pandemic is over...
The USSR built a power station there afterwards, so the museum facility includes the rocket factory, power station and also a concentration camp annex - imprisoned Jews and trade unionists with highly skilled engineering backgrounds were transferred from main concentration and death camps to Peenemünde to manufacture many specialist parts for both the V1 and V2.
While individuals like Wernher von Braun got to escape to the US, much of the hardware that was left behind ended up part of the Soviet occupation zone, later the German Democratic Republic.
By contrast, many of the Nakajima and Mitsubishi facilities were either flattened through air raids, or demolished post-war and the engineers and staff members ended up doing all sorts - from working on the Shinkansen trains to designing and building motor scooters. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason America didn't want to take Japanese engineers for their own means was down to significant anti-Japan prejudice - internment of Japanese-Americans definitely set the tone for how much the US was totally unwilling to forget the past. Yet those Germans who were complicit in the Holocaust got a get out of jail free card in the form of American citizenship.
@@vaska00762 Your general sentiment is perfectly valid, but many of the specifics are not quite accurate:
V1 was tested but not manufactured in Peenemünde.
Peenemünde power plant was built before the war.
Any skilled mechanic on occupied territories was in danger of being sent as a slave to V2 production line or to some other German factory, of which there were many -- this fate was not reserved to any particular group, because skilled workers were always in short supply.
Most of the valuable instruments from the German rocket program, (including hundreds of rockets and pieces as large as entire supersonic wind tunnels), were evacuated to the USA. Nearly all of the documentation and nearly all upper management also went to the USA. (Soviets laboriously reconstructed V2 program based primarily on the materials remaining at various subcontractors, and by employing several thousands of lower level German specialists to restore the original manufacturing pipeline, which they ran in Germany after the war for some time, producing a handful of rockets, before evacuating everything to the USSR.)
USA, France and USSR all used German specialists in electronics, chemistry, jet and piston engines, rocketry, etc. The story of V2 is known the best to the general public, but overall it accounted for only a few percent of various German specialists "invited" by the Allies after the victory. Manfred von Ardenne has even been awarded Stalin Prize in the USSR for contributions to the Soviet nuclear bomb program!
@@vaska00762
while racism shaped everything going on at that time, the fact is that germany was globally recognized as leading the field of rocketry, and japan was not. if the reverse were true, different decisions may have been made.
I would love to see a video of all 5 attempts of the de-spin, orient, re-spin, ignition to orbit.
We're so lucky to be seeing live video links of most major events during Falcon 9 launches.
Must have been so satisfying to all involved on that 5th flight.
This is a KSP challenge. Mad respect to those who made it happen.
I've never got it working, much less with realism overhaul. Yeah, props to Japan for doing it IRL.
Also, those non-orbital sounding rockets collected lots of useful science data too.
Just yesterday i got Scott´s KSP video recommended, where he is doing that
Japanese confirmed to be very first kerbals 🙂 Used similar setups for "least delta V to orbit" challenges.
Already done it with a 1500 ton rocket, need lots of Launch Clamps though 🤪
I did a challenge for that a while back. Hands off launch only using those smartpart triggers for staging.
I called it Sosueme.
Rocket science is hard, but this adds a lot of extra hoops to jump through, I mean, ballistic guidance followed by spin stabilization, followed by stopping spin and reorienting before restarting spin. Thank goodness for thrust vectoring, but those engineers were top of their game.
Ooh I remember doing "unguided" SRB only challenges (no reaction wheels, rcs, or steerable fins -pure passive stability) in ksp. For timing consistency and telemetry modelling (for iterative development) I used kOS.
The hardest part was probably adjusting the fuel/timing for seperatron rotation manoeuvres & tediously adjusting srb fuel in the last 2 stages for accurate orbital insertion. Having a motor you can't turn off is really impractical sometimes.
Having done this in KSP as well, I'm amazed by Japan having done this without "revert to VAB" as an option to fix the trajectory!
@@skylerlehmkuhl135 LOTS of math beforehand. Not to mention the occasional expensive failure.
Really interesting! 👍
I was doing that stuff with Realism Overhaul and Realistic Progression. Really challenging, but super fun stuff.
I used smart parts instead. Finicky little buggers.
5:49 I just want to take a moment to appreciate how crazy and cool looking that haul truck is with the driver barely above the ground
“Can we have a Self-propelled modular transporter?”
“We have a Self-propelled modular transporter at home!”
*SPMT at Home*
When you are on holiday, but need to do an urgent video about rockets from 60 years ago...
🤣
I had the pleasure of seeing an epsilon launch a few years back at the uchinoura space center. Very impressive to watch, especially since it was a pre dawn launch and we got to see noctilucent clouds as a bonus!
Nearby Kagoshima is also a lovely place to visit, by the way. Highly recommended
I loved this background on the Japanese space program thank you Scott. As a child I sat there glued to the black and white TV programs on the Saturn 5 missions. James Burke, BBC2. I still have my A4 prints of the Saturn 5 launches, view from the moon and moon shots that were "free" with 50 tops of the Tyfoo tea packets. Filling in the gaps of space history we missed is so interesting.
I had a Cape Canaveral Suitcase like set, & our Living room ceiling stucco had circular patterns with a 30” diameter centre
Every Apollo launch I would launch the spring-loaded rocket at that centre target as my Moon
Parents were happy only 7 mission’s as a chip of stucco would drop with every launch Lol
Needless to say when Apollo retired, I got retired to only fire my rocket outside :)
Wish I still had that set for my own kids when they were at that fun age of imagination:)
I was 6 years old :)
Thanks Scott. Can always count on you for an informative video without any hype or nonsense.
I only had a passing interest in rocketry until finding your channel and AST’s little corner of the internet. Now I watch every video and find every one so interesting. Thanks and keep coming up with such interesting content as long as you can! Your work is appreciated!!
It's always great when a country can succeed at hard things without compromising on their political standards. The innovations they made to work within these restrictions are also a great bonus.
Unnecessary cheese.
Reminds me of my early KSP rockets which I would let do gravity turns on their own.
How long did those turns last?
Like my USS Catherine Wheel.
I used to just not do gravity turns. It would automatically tip to ~10 degrees, but after that I would just cut the engines/stage, and coast to apogee. But now I do rather shallow gravity turns, maybe only tipping to ~60 degrees by 50km, because I feel the “conventional” gravity turn is too steep. Matt Lowne’s gravity turn sucks in my opinion, because it takes so long, and creates a lot of drag.
@@fork9001 I change attitude at 1000, 8000 & 20000 then coast up to Apogee; not efficient at all
@@spacechannelfiver 1000 is way too soon. I go with 5.5 to 6.5k depending upon the crafts next stage max twr
The Japanese space program is a very interesting and multifaceted subject. I had the chance to work with NASDA during a time where Japan had three separate space agencies, each focused on a different area of development and utilization. The activities of each, and their combination into JAXA, is an interesting story unto itself.
Each of the Japanese engineering satellites is likewise an interesting story. I followed each closely during their flights to learn what I could apply to my own work at the time.
Also, the Japanese are the masters of the "shoestring catch", recovering missions that otherwise would have failed.
Three separate agencies? I know about ISAS and NASDA, what is the third one?
@ニッキーペレフルゴン
NAL (National Aerospace Laboratory )
Shoestring catch indeed. Hyabusa 1 was kind of miraculous, being one of the most impressive sustained displays of problem solving leading to a very good result there has ever been. NASA personnel have pulled of some fixes in their time, but the folk that kept Hyabusa 1 going were incredible
A lot of modern sounding rockets still use the passive guidance technique, the Japanese experience helped them, no doubt. These small rockets are becoming very popular for launching very small nanosatellites at low cost and the same sort of angled launch rails are used today at Andøya and Svalbard to launch hundreds of these skinny pencils every year.
And here I thought they chose Kappa in honour of that Japanese mythical troll like creature.
While all this was going on Japan was also developing liquid-fuel rocket technology, licensing tech from the US. A series of boosters derived from the Delta family followed, each version adding more and more Japanese components. Eventually a Japanese-designed and built liquid LV (with solid boosters), the H-II was developed. But that's another story...
Great video. Thanks for covering the lesser known rocketry attempts.
1950's Japanese rocket nerds deciding they aren't going to wait several decades to play KSP.
There’s one of these tilted rockets outside Ueno station, where I pass by frequently. I’d been wondering what’s up with it.
And now I know, thanks Scott!
That’s one stark AirBnB. “Boutique property with an austere aesthetic. TV, bed, smoke alarm; nothing extraneous”.
Also note the greige (gray-beige) color theme.
@@scottmanley I hope your review will reference the excellent ambience.
This is a piece of space history I was unaware of. Thank you.
still posting videos when on the road, legend!
Great video! love from Japan 🇯🇵
Mate. How the hell do you knock this stuff out from a random Hotel room with such amazing quality?. Its really spooky.
it is kind of ironic that given the initial need to avoid a weaponized rocket they went with increasingly larger solid rockets, then by the time you get to the Mu series, most weaponized ballistic missiles were large solid rockets, and the M-V outwardly looking identical to many large ballistic missiles today, but all this was kind of by accident as IRBMs and ICBMs in the 50s, 60s and 70s were liquid fueled beasts until you got large amounts of things like minuteman, peacekeeper and topols
"and if you're used to rockets then the first thing that stands out to you is likely the fact that it's not standing straight up and down like everybody else's rockets."
Also that it looks like it's from a Gerry Anderson production.
Thanks Scott. I live on an island across from Wallops flight facility and they still regularly launch sounding rockets like the Black Brant this way. They are great for inexpensive sub-orbital experiments. When not launching sub-orbital rockets we get to see the Antares payloads to ISS and soon the Rocket Lab Electron and Neutron.
An Air BNB in new jersey. That sounds like the sort of place someone on the run would willingly go and few others.
my Australian opal guy is in Las Vegas today... like 😬 condolences
"Do not underestimate the attractions of the Garden State"
I'm reminded of the days when I would spend hours assembling home made rockets from A, B, C, and D-cell solid rocket boosters. My favorite one was a rocket that would separate at apex, releasing small camera and parachute tied to the nose cone. When deployed, the wires to the parachutes and camera would tension as the chute deployed and that tensioning, in turn, would cause the camera shutter to activate. I got some pretty nifty pictures of the ground far below like this. Amateur rocketry was so much fun. Unfortunately, it has been banned almost everywhere now in the U.S. under the same restrictions as those imposed on personal drones, unmanned vehicles, etc.
Model rocketry is allowed in all states. Class 2 and Class 3 amateur rockets are more stringently regulated, but not banned.
@@-danR Sorry. Banned was too strong a word. I should have said "restricted."
@@glennpearson9348 restriction breeds resistance
@@cinellectualproperties894 Sorry, I am talking about model rockets. What are you talking about? Also, in rocket motor terms, restriction breeds acceleration.
Restrictions had good reasons, one of which I was a participant in: I forget the details of the rocket, only that we were trying to make our own fireworks (yeah, teenagers....). We had just gotten the altitude we wanted with a dummy payload, and in excitement we rushed the next one. It wasn't even a hundred feet up when there was a flash, and my friend said calmly, "Shit -- malfunction". Of course the rocket tilted and went crazy off-course....
And landed on the roof of the junior high school, where it skittered about burning. We were laughing, wishing we had this on camera, but laughter turned to puzzlement as smoke started coming up, dark smoke that the rocket shouldn't have been able to produce. We both realized what had happened at the same time and looked at each other with a "What the frak do we do NOW?" look.
Happily a neighbor had a ladder and a large fire extinguisher, or we would have been in serious trouble: our crashed rocket had managed to set the flat tar roof of the school on fire. It took just the right conditions; it was a hot summer sun and the tar was already soft from the sunshine (I've often wondered how long our footprints stayed up there in the tar along with the burn damage).
We gave up on fireworks as too risky, and changed our goal to sending my friend's pet gerbil up a thousand feet with a safe return to ground (yeah, teenagers!).
This was the first time I ever thought about the Japanese space program.
Thanks Scott
Not surprised the Japanese liked Kappa as a greek letter. 🐢
JK
The nissan skyline line about the sky.. line
Was great 😁 thanks and fly safe
What an amazing story. Thank you for the history lesson! Can’t wait for the next one :D
Oh! I think I’m pretty early on this one. I’ve done this in KSP with very different outcomes. 🤣
One of these days, I want to make it down to Tanegashima to catch a launch…. I hear that plane tickets and lodging are hard to come by, though.
hmmm, its not massively far from my in-laws in Kyushu
This channel definitely picks the best topics out of all the space channels
Damn, Japanese fisherman just can't seem to catch a break can they?!
but they do seem to be getting better at catching spent rocket stages!
@@mastershooter64 indeed, all that training led them to win ninja warrior
@@jacklobb3510 you're either dodging spent rocket stages or nuclear fireballs with extra fallout
damn, all those japanese rockets and ground hardware give off massive thunderbirds vibes
So my angled launches in KSP are actually a thing in real life. Cool! They were my solution to being super early in career mode while doing contracts with the cheapest rockets possible...limitations kind of like those of Japan's early space program
IJN: "So you want to join the war effort? What skills can you bring?"
This Guy: "I make rockets at home in my spare time."
IJN: "Perfect! Here's an 18" gun. Your job is to make it go boom!"
This Guy: "Sweet."
Later....
*Whistles walking past a guard carrying propellant in pockets*
I love the angled launch!! It's just cool, as are fins! Next some snazzy colours please!! (Great video, Scott!)
Kept a stash of propellants! hahahah rocket prepper. I like it.
I love these historic videos with so many cool pictures.
Hey Scott... Fantastic content about Japan's march to space.
Making boring stuff extremely interesting and entertaining... once again.
Thanks, Scott!
OMG, I've just understood why Haruki Murakami called "Sakigake" to the cult in his novel 1Q84. Thank you Scott!
I liked your idea so I did some digging but it seems that they both just used the name for its literal meaning: forerunner/precursor/pioneer/pathfinder/harbinger.
Scott, your videos are, one by one, answering every space question I've ever had (and some I didn't know I had)
Why couldn't they make more underwater aircraft carriers? Those things were brilliant.
@bruh and what, the Gerald Ford class carriers are cheap?
They did >> two by end of WW2 but didn’t see action but one did go on mission but it didn’t get completed
They welded two subs together & it carried 3 planes, similar to how helicopters stored on Destroyers, but planes took off on angled ramps
Only sub larger is the Russian missile sub. (The one that even had hot tubs for the men :)
One was surrendered & disabled, but reality sent back to U.S to examine the construction & then was reportedly sunk
The other was searched & finally found & confronted
Captain scuttled rather than surrender to American Navy who found it
@@ivanwigmore i know they made those, i'm just asking why won't they make others any more?
@@kristelvidhi5038 Underwater Aircraft Carriers are possible but too complex for easy operation.
The only advantage they could have is stealth, wich can be easily doomed by modern sonars.
That's not to say that they aren't awesome though!
@@davisdf3064 now the Russian's have that nuclear torpedo that can cause tsunamis with radioactive poisons.
Guy kept a stash of explosive propelant for personal use. Interesting guy. Worked out nicely so Yay him.
Pointy end up-ish, flamey end down-ish (?)
It's just like Scott to take on a subject that no-one else had thought of, and make another fascinating exposition. Thank you. My inner nerd is now satisfied.
Here's one for you, though: fins. You made it clear here why the Kappa had fins for passive stabilisation, but there are many rockets which have thrust gimbaling and also have fins, and others that do not. I may be mistaken, but I understand that later iterations of the Saturn V, if they had been manufactured, would likely have done away with the fins on the first stage. There's no getting away from it, though: fins do look cool.
I was designing a gimbal system for a turbopump fed liquid rocket engine,(it’s for an undergraduate student project) I was told that it’s prohibited since a gimbal system kinda implies the launch vehicle will have guidance which is a no-no even here in the US
2023:
What are you doing, son?
Designing a Kerbal propulsion system, Dad.
Is that even legal?
" *_knock knock knock!_* ... "
@@-danR About thirty years ago a guy who I let use my garage for working on his bigger stuff got that knock from the FBI. There had been some publicity in high-power rocketry publications about his experimenting with live TV links and guidance. So knock knock, they talked to him for a bit, quickly ascertained it's just something he did for fun, and came away with his thoughts as to how close the hobbyist state of the art was to producing something which might be of concern to law enforcement.
So yes, you can gimbal all you want to.
IIRC, Japan is the first country to put Sat on orbit with full solid engine. Impressive skill on prediction.
With no steering? Sounds super hard...
Absolutely Fascinating !
You learn something new EVERY day !
Thanks for these Vlogs !
More please !
Fly safe !
Stu.
Very interesting. On a somewhat related note and involving future tech. If Japan were to ever build a Space Elevator (assuming materials strong enough for this ever come into existance) it would also be at a noticeable angle. Though not for political reasons with their constitution. It would be scientifically required given their location on Earth in relation to the location of Eath's rotation and equator.
Space elevators use the centrifugal force of the Earth to keep the object at the "end" of the space elevator's cable(s) in place and the force of the mass at the end of this cable wanting to pull away from the Earth is what keeps that cord tensioned. The mass at the end of the Space Elevator isn't necessarily in a stable orbit. That mass would either fall into a much higher orbit or leave Earth entirely if the cable lost it's connection to the ground/mass detaches from cable. (though if the cable broke from the ground instead, the mass at the end would likely not escape Earth and would either fall into some kind of orbit or get dragged down to earth due to drag involving the cable. only if just the mass came off would that mass fall into higher orbit or escape Earth) The mass has to have extra energy in it's motion to keep the cables tensioned and lifted up against gravity so a normal orbit wouldn't be enough. The mass at the end would have to be somewhere beyond the geostationary orbital plane and the further away from equator you base your Space Elevator, the longer the cable has to be to reach the area needed to provided the force required to keep all that mass suspended against gravity.
Long story short only Space Elevators at the Equator would have the shortest possible cables and be vertically straight when seen from the ground. The mass at the end would migrate to a area close to or at the center of rotation of the Earth. This means the cables would be straight at the equator but would have a "lean" relative to the ground on the earth the further away you mount it from the Equator.
I believe if Japan ever built one, it would have a signifcant lean because of this and would be very noticeable. There have been a few sci-fi media (mainly anime. :P ) that depicts Japan having a space elevator and it has kinda bothered me that they are depicted has going straight up into the sky. I think they would instead go into the sky at a angle. Not sure how noticeable the angle would be but the angle would exist! I have yet to see one realistically shown in this manner. :P
Yah, the southernmost point of Japanese land is a coral reef (Okinotorishima) that only _barely_ pokes out of the middle of the Philippine Sea, at about 20.4°N. While the southernmost "real" land seems to be in the Yaeyama Islands east of Taiwan, at about 24.3°N, with the Ogasawara Islands a runner up around 25°N on the other side of the Philippine Sea.
Meanwhile, the island of Okinawa itself starts around 26°N, while the mainland of Kyushu starts only just south of 31°N.
It feels good to hear Goofy explaining and discussing bits of information about rocket science. I meant no disrespect, It feels nostalgic hearing the same intonations as that character's voice has.
"it took them 5 attempts" I hope this from a "wow, this is amazing" point of view -- i've seen attempts to release software updates take more than 5 goes ....
That Last video clip shows how much of a hot rod those were. That’s AGGRESSIVE!
The Japanese pilots just kinda forgot where the controls were, alright?
Based in Japan and NJ at one point or another. Very damn glad I no longer am in New Jersey, Japan was amazing, would never even visit New York or Jersey ever again.
Like we're supposed to be surprised that Japan does things just a bit different (or in many cases A LOT different). This is why I love Japan.
8:56 - "It took FIVE attempts to make this work". The fact that it only took 5 is absolutely staggering.
In 1967, I wondered if a multistage sounding rocket could reach orbit using a simple guidance system. Launching at an angle was a critical parameter for success. After several months and visits to two aerospace conventions, I had all the equations and a supplier's list of the sensors and components required. I didn't have the money to assemble the project, but I knew it was possible.
Do you by any chance happen to still have the equations saved somewhere?
Oh sure , best amateur rocket clubs now nowhere near orbit
@@the18thdoctor3 No need to keep the equations. You will find them in newer Orbital Mechanics and Celestial Navigation books. I used two earth horizon sensors, one looking forward and the other aft, to determine when the spinning final stage and payload were parallel to the earth's surface for the final orbital insertion velocity. A Half-stage was added to increase the perigee altitude and circularize the orbit. The most significant improvement on the system was a cold gas single nozzle lateral thrust guidance system. It reduced the gyroscopic precession error, for improved parallel orientation to the earth's surface. I witnessed a demonstration of an early system at one of the aerospace conferences. The company graciously gave me their equations. If you are interested in similar guidance systems you will find several papers and articles, with the equations, under "lateral thrust projectile steering" on the Internet.
@@eddiekulp1241 The USCRPL rocket "Traveler 4" passed the Karman Line into space in 2019. Give them a few more years and they could build an orbital vehicle. If not USC then UCLA, they have a very reliable liquid propulsion system.
great explanation Scott! As we were listening, my wife said "That guy is really smart!" I agree and love your casts. Keep it up!
Hayabusa 2 was the coolest probe ever
It was a little fleet carrier with an anti-tank round 🔥
And if you read John D Clarke's book "Ignition" you'll realise how crazy someone has to be to keep a personal stash of rocket propellant around...
I love your videos! You never responded to my email about farting into orbit around small asteroids, but it's okay, I understand haha.
This just reminds me of Kerbal and how I slightly tilt my launch platform so the rocket launches in a gravity turn.
Actually, launching at the gravity turn angle is the optimal trajectory, that is why vertically launched rocket pitch over to the gravity turn angle after tower clearance. The list of advantages to launching large rockets vertically is long, and far out-ways the performances losses of the initial sub-optimal vertical trajectory.
A long time ago, I initialized a Space Shuttle simulation wrong. It was sitting on the pad horizontally, it still made it to SRB separation, after having initially falling through the earth at liftoff then pitched up instead of down at tower clearance. Dynamic Pressure was about double and the Winds would have been ripped off, but it was a fun simulation to look at.
_*Outweighs_
Climbing vertically also lets you clear the thickest atmosphere as quickly as possible.
Clipping through the ground at launch for a stage skip? Groundbreaking.
Horizontal ?
Verticle ?
Between ?
Yes, an angle other than 0° or 90°
*************
Given the forward motion desired,
and the Earth's rotational factors.
(Yes, they change by time of year, and weather)
An adjustable launch platform, is highly desired.
IF constant platform, there will always be few optimal launch times !
Adjustable launch platforms, are now available. Each launch can be done with the most desirable angle.
As determined, by:
-- Time of day;
-- Phase of the moon;
-- Eatth's solar position;
-- Atmosphere motion;
-- Shifting of land;
-- Goals of the launch
*******
Bonus ??
-- An adjusrable platform, can have constant maintenance.
Its absolutely insane to me, that they reached orbit with just an angle, velocity and stabilization methods.
it is absolutely insane, and didn't happen. They had active control on the highest stages.
seems like a classic case of "best part is no part" lol
I had no idea that so-on and so-forth were letters in the Greek alphabet. Thanks Scott, I learned something new on this one. 😜but seriously, this was a great vid. I knew little about the early Japanese space program until now.
Incredible! I always thought this was something we only do in KSP!
That was great! It was nice to learn more about the developments that led to Japan's present status as a respectable and competent space-launch power. Scott's use of the angled launch profile to explain the sensitive path that Japan had to thread (for geopolitical reasons) really helped to make the subject matter more accessible. Thanks!
So, is the following correct? The disadvantage of launching at an angle is that the rocket has to fly a longer path through the thick part of the atmosphere? It would also have to deal with a higher Max Q (dynamic pressure).
Probably not that significant. All orbital rockets follow a profile where they start out (mostly) vertical, and make a slow gravity turn to transition to horizontal flight. This one just starts that turn a little earlier - on the pad, instead of just after clearing it.
I once built a quick and dirty single-stage model of the L-4S in 1:50 scale, out of paper and balsa scraps, without even a motor mount (liner), just making a paper tube on a dowel for a standard 14mm motor. It was only good for two or three flights, but looked great for its size and flew well.
Kinda funny they couldn't have guidance because it could be used as a ballistic missile yet you could absolutely make a dumb fire rocket do the same thing. (With more effort and potentially less accuracy but still)
Thanks for teaching me about the Japanese space program, they came up with a really creative solution to the restrictions they were given.
Are you sure that they didn't name the mission series after the Japanese folklore spirit(s) Kappa instead of the greek alphabet?
This is what the JAXA site told me.
the story about using left-over propellant from the main guns of the "Yamato" to make those first launches, priceless!
I love Japanese engineering! They take overly complicated ideas and remove all of the fluff.
Nice video. Audio different but very good. Loved the topic.
1:33 Hideo's "i" is pronounced as i in "discussion", not as "ai"
Thanks captain!
Japanese? Hi (ひ) is pronounced as hee, long E sound.
Am I missing something here?
Ok good first son.
I just listened to it...🤣 Oh these gaijin... Hee-de-oh.
@@mballer I'd say it's short e in this case. when it becomes a long e, the letter must accompany a dash sign, like "ひーでお". His name is "いとかわ ひでお" (糸川 英夫)