This is absolutely the best board game design series I have watched. Great info and presentation. Exactly what I needed to hear. Looking forward to the upcoming 7 other videos.
Don’t argue with a publisher: in this social media age, seems like everyone wants to argue 😀 You never know, next year, there might be a completely different person in that position that may like something else you have 🤷🏻♂️
"Watching playtesters"... oh, so much this. What is the table vibe? What is frustrating or engaging to them? Way more valuable than the reported feedback in my experience.
Nice insights as usual. Though I feel conflicted about the "the game doesn't belong only to you" point. From the production perspective, modern board games is similar to books (designer submit a finished design to publisher then wait them for the release), while video games is more like movies (someone pitched an idea/proposal/unfinished concept to producer/studio leader then the whole studio will make it together with a huge team). Thus why the designer's name being written on the game box becomes a norm, like a book author. So I personally think that putting a board game credit just to the publisher and not mainly to the designer is... unfair. I know the industry is still rather new, but considering about where the credit has to be put is important.
Yeah, I’m conflicted about it too. But I have seen how much creative work publishers put in and it’s substantial. The bit I’d challenge in your account is “the designer submits a finished game to publisher then waits for them to release”. While that is sometimes true, I reckon it’s far more common for the game to go through development with the publisher before release. And the artist/graphic designer/miniature-sculptor has far more impact over the eventual personality of the product than anybody involved in book-publishing. Where ownership lies is certainly variable - and case dependent. But I see games as products, and the game’s ruleset is just one component of the whole (the designer’s input). In most cases, I think it is the most significant part of the product - it has the most impact - so I agree that it is right and proper to put the designer’s name up front and centre. But the artist frequently deserves equal billing, and I’m glad to see them often getting it. And the publisher’s branding is always prominent too (correctly). For me, it feels like a very shared experience.
@@AdaminWales Since the designer gets about 5% commission I'd think about 5% of the credit would also be warranted. 95% credited to everyone else in the whole endeavor. It's a big team that brings a board game to market
@@tonyallen4265That's not the case with books. Authors also got a small portion of income from their published book (about 5-10% per copy), yet they deserved the main credit and recognition for the book. Probably, like Adam said, where board games differ from books is how much influence the publisher's contribution gives into the product. In books, publisher may choose the prettiest cover art, papers, layouts, editing etc. but the books' content by the author is all that matters the most. For board games, maybe the gameplay doesn't matter more than the components? (Which is not so true in my experience but I digress.)
@@AdaminWalesThank you for the response! Also sorry for my poor English :'D The crediting in the industry is rather nebulous, I see. Sure the artists and manufacturers deserve appreciation too, but it's just sad to see game designers (especially new designers) not getting recognition they deserved, after months or years of prototyping, iterations and playtests. A new designer from my country just got his game published by a Japanese publisher, people starts to talk about the game but very few of them mentioning the designer's name.
Liking this series. The feedback tips feel a bit contradictory though. Getting feedback from playtesters: nope. Giving (very critical) feedback as a playtester: yes. ?
Yes, I agree 😂 That’s the problem with using an unscripted format!! My intention was: 1. Watching playtesters is more valuable than listening to their feedback (but of course you can learn something by listening to them too). 2. When you receive negative feedback (from playtesters, publishers… anyone really) don’t get defensive about it. In my head it’s not contradictory. Of course, you should take on board some of what playtesters tell you. But even if you’re simply watching them, and they’re responding negatively to your game, you need to try to learn from it - not blame the playtesters. Something like that 😅
Great stuff from this channel. The only thing I could suggest is to own your own stuff. Literally. Everything I do I do, including paying for art out of my pocket. You will care more about your stuff if you take this route rather than throwing something off on a publisher that just sees it as another paycheck or not.
Yeah, I know - frustrating when you notice while editing… but probably not significant enough to re-film!!! Sorry Pam!! The text on screen was very clear and correct though :)
Hi Adam - Thanks so much for producing one of the richest, most practical video series for game design advice. I feel like I've struck "the motherlode" of experiential nuggets! One question from today's list: I see on your video discussions of getting professionally produced prototypes, that the components you show already have some great-looking artwork, graphic design & iconography. Do you do all your own art, or do you have any recommendations for good prototype art sources? Thanks for all you sow back into the hobby community!
You will get many varying opinions about this - and it’s a hot topic of debate. Many designers lift any images they can find off Google. I have always preferred to source public domain art wherever possible for this purpose, using sites like Pexels, Unsplash, Noun Projext, Pixabay. But over the last year, I’ve been experimenting with using Midjourney AI. That’s what the images are in these video clips. It looks great until you look closely and find all sorts of weird details. I stress to the publisher from the earliest stage that this is “proof of concept” only and the images are never made available for them to use commercially. it’s placeholder art, used to show a mood, a tone, or to suggest what the finished product “could be”. It will all be changed by the publisher. I do the graphic design myself :)
Hi Adam, thanks for all of your videos. I'm watching them a lot. They are really intersting! I had some ideas: - maybe you can do something like a Advent calender next year, in which you design every (few) day(s) or week a small game with just a few rules with a specific topic. E.g. game mechanism, theme, etc - do you have a discord or other platform where people can sit together and brainstorm or be creative about their board games?
Nice idea about an advent calendar - though I think I’d struggle to design even a game a month, let alone one per day. I never design very effectively when put under pressure! I don’t have any communities outside of RUclips I’m afraid, simply because of lack of time.
This is absolutely the best board game design series I have watched. Great info and presentation. Exactly what I needed to hear. Looking forward to the upcoming 7 other videos.
Really glad it’s useful to you Tony, thanks for watching!
May I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your hard earned wisdom. Carma never forgets an address. Well done pal ❤
Don’t argue with a publisher: in this social media age, seems like everyone wants to argue 😀 You never know, next year, there might be a completely different person in that position that may like something else you have 🤷🏻♂️
"Watching playtesters"... oh, so much this. What is the table vibe? What is frustrating or engaging to them? Way more valuable than the reported feedback in my experience.
Nice insights as usual. Though I feel conflicted about the "the game doesn't belong only to you" point. From the production perspective, modern board games is similar to books (designer submit a finished design to publisher then wait them for the release), while video games is more like movies (someone pitched an idea/proposal/unfinished concept to producer/studio leader then the whole studio will make it together with a huge team). Thus why the designer's name being written on the game box becomes a norm, like a book author.
So I personally think that putting a board game credit just to the publisher and not mainly to the designer is... unfair. I know the industry is still rather new, but considering about where the credit has to be put is important.
Yeah, I’m conflicted about it too. But I have seen how much creative work publishers put in and it’s substantial. The bit I’d challenge in your account is “the designer submits a finished game to publisher then waits for them to release”. While that is sometimes true, I reckon it’s far more common for the game to go through development with the publisher before release. And the artist/graphic designer/miniature-sculptor has far more impact over the eventual personality of the product than anybody involved in book-publishing.
Where ownership lies is certainly variable - and case dependent. But I see games as products, and the game’s ruleset is just one component of the whole (the designer’s input). In most cases, I think it is the most significant part of the product - it has the most impact - so I agree that it is right and proper to put the designer’s name up front and centre. But the artist frequently deserves equal billing, and I’m glad to see them often getting it. And the publisher’s branding is always prominent too (correctly). For me, it feels like a very shared experience.
@@AdaminWales Since the designer gets about 5% commission I'd think about 5% of the credit would also be warranted. 95% credited to everyone else in the whole endeavor. It's a big team that brings a board game to market
@@tonyallen4265That's not the case with books. Authors also got a small portion of income from their published book (about 5-10% per copy), yet they deserved the main credit and recognition for the book.
Probably, like Adam said, where board games differ from books is how much influence the publisher's contribution gives into the product. In books, publisher may choose the prettiest cover art, papers, layouts, editing etc. but the books' content by the author is all that matters the most. For board games, maybe the gameplay doesn't matter more than the components? (Which is not so true in my experience but I digress.)
@@AdaminWalesThank you for the response! Also sorry for my poor English :'D
The crediting in the industry is rather nebulous, I see. Sure the artists and manufacturers deserve appreciation too, but it's just sad to see game designers (especially new designers) not getting recognition they deserved, after months or years of prototyping, iterations and playtests. A new designer from my country just got his game published by a Japanese publisher, people starts to talk about the game but very few of them mentioning the designer's name.
Liking this series. The feedback tips feel a bit contradictory though. Getting feedback from playtesters: nope. Giving (very critical) feedback as a playtester: yes. ?
Yes, I agree 😂 That’s the problem with using an unscripted format!! My intention was:
1. Watching playtesters is more valuable than listening to their feedback (but of course you can learn something by listening to them too).
2. When you receive negative feedback (from playtesters, publishers… anyone really) don’t get defensive about it.
In my head it’s not contradictory. Of course, you should take on board some of what playtesters tell you. But even if you’re simply watching them, and they’re responding negatively to your game, you need to try to learn from it - not blame the playtesters.
Something like that 😅
@@AdaminWales Thanks for the clarification!
Great stuff from this channel. The only thing I could suggest is to own your own stuff. Literally. Everything I do I do, including paying for art out of my pocket. You will care more about your stuff if you take this route rather than throwing something off on a publisher that just sees it as another paycheck or not.
*Pam Walls, not Wallis
Yeah, I know - frustrating when you notice while editing… but probably not significant enough to re-film!!! Sorry Pam!! The text on screen was very clear and correct though :)
@@AdaminWales On the plus side, we've just given Pam some extra SEO brownie points :)
Hi Adam - Thanks so much for producing one of the richest, most practical video series for game design advice. I feel like I've struck "the motherlode" of experiential nuggets! One question from today's list: I see on your video discussions of getting professionally produced prototypes, that the components you show already have some great-looking artwork, graphic design & iconography. Do you do all your own art, or do you have any recommendations for good prototype art sources? Thanks for all you sow back into the hobby community!
You will get many varying opinions about this - and it’s a hot topic of debate. Many designers lift any images they can find off Google. I have always preferred to source public domain art wherever possible for this purpose, using sites like Pexels, Unsplash, Noun Projext, Pixabay.
But over the last year, I’ve been experimenting with using Midjourney AI. That’s what the images are in these video clips. It looks great until you look closely and find all sorts of weird details. I stress to the publisher from the earliest stage that this is “proof of concept” only and the images are never made available for them to use commercially.
it’s placeholder art, used to show a mood, a tone, or to suggest what the finished product “could be”. It will all be changed by the publisher.
I do the graphic design myself :)
Hi Adam, thanks for all of your videos. I'm watching them a lot. They are really intersting!
I had some ideas:
- maybe you can do something like a Advent calender next year, in which you design every (few) day(s) or week a small game with just a few rules with a specific topic. E.g. game mechanism, theme, etc
- do you have a discord or other platform where people can sit together and brainstorm or be creative about their board games?
Nice idea about an advent calendar - though I think I’d struggle to design even a game a month, let alone one per day. I never design very effectively when put under pressure!
I don’t have any communities outside of RUclips I’m afraid, simply because of lack of time.
Thanks, 10 very valuable advices, again ;-)
I just got into this series yesterday. What a wonderful time for the next video to drop!
I’m posting them every day until we’re done :) (except weekends)