I enjoyed your thoughts. I started a delivery job a year ago and lost 25 pounds. Since then I changed very little in my form and am throwing about 50 feet further on my backhand. Forehand is about the same though.lol
I have played disc golf for 10 years. In my opinion, I have good form, and I’m a 950-rated player who can throw 400 feet consistently. This is the first year I’ve started implementing strength training. Last summer, while competing in local tournaments, I noticed that the players I was losing to often had athletic backgrounds in other sports, like ice hockey, and they looked like athletes. I also have a background in sports, but my physique didn’t compare to theirs. That’s when I realized that if I wanted to take my game to the next level, I needed to hit the gym. Since then, I’ve focused on hypertrophy training, max strength training, explosive lifts like cleans and snatches, as well as plyometrics. Last week, I started consistently hitting 110 km/h (compared to last summer when I couldn’t even reach 100 km/h) with a tech disc. Living in Finland, I’ll have to wait about five months to see how this translates to actual distance throws. My form has also improved. My head position is now on point, thanks to rotational cable exercises and landmine drills, which have strengthened my core and taught me to control my trunk rotation independently from my head. So, is it the form or the strength? I believe that, at some point, you can only improve your form by getting stronger. Strength allows you to put your body into positions that can handle the loads of a powerful throw. For me, form is the foundation-you need to learn it first. But remember, all bodies are different, and they move differently. However, you can’t achieve perfect form without an athletic body, so strength is equally important. Ultimately, you can’t separate the two.
There's several components to a complete game. Form, strength, endurance, knowledge of your discs, hole strategy, and environmental conditions adaptability. And all of those become more difficult if you have neglected the bottom row of the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Add Flexibility to that. You mentioned injuries early on. And I think that flexibility is a big reason for it. Endurance is also extremely important and great point
Great video! I've been thinking about this a lot myself. As I've gotten older, I've gotten weaker. I started developing a strength and endurance training plan for myself to work on that. I do believe that does help, and it's good to work on imbalances - even those caused playing this sport.
Great discussion! After a year of intentional strength and mobility training I simply feel more capable and balanced. I don't think it made me throw farther, yet I got stronger. My brace is a lot sturdier and I don't hurt as much when I have to push my limits. Fitness will raise your ceiling for sure, and it will certainly help with many other things outside of DG. Could just be all one big rebound effect (you feel better overall and are able to practice better so skill increases faster but you still must also practice your form to get there in the end) but there's many ways to look at it.
I think mobility and flexibility is also super important. Limited mobility in my upper back has held me back (as far as distance driving goes) for years. I started doing dead hangs every day about 8 months ago which is really improving my twisting mobility and I'm now throwing about 50 feet further than I ever have before. I'm 47 yrs old and I've been playing for 14 years. I think mobility and form go hand in hand. I would say that the ideal ratio is something like 30% strength, 30% mobility, and 40% good form. That being said, I also think that genetic build is the most important dictator of how far any given person will ultimately be able to throw.
Try the new all weather Jake wolf white out marvel. P2 clone but it really good hand feel helped me in winter a lot. Also I have thrown further since exercising in April, but the correlation is I feel healthier. Also better stability and core, allowing me to access better form.
Your closing statement summed it up best, for a newer player form will matter most unless its a physical inability stopping them. conditioning will matter as well but you'll also condition as you play more. Once you have a solid form and move on past casual, play strength and speed training and endurance will matter more now. At that part you should be throwing over 400' controlled and form will net you less gains as well.
@@roosbowlab4971 I would say most important is probably core. Training explosiveness by doing stuff like plyometrics and olympics lifts is likely the way to go. Honestly though, the best program is whatever gets you into the gym. That’s why I don’t do any strength training too specific to disc golf, because that’s what I enjoy most in the gym.
@@TylerTiede Thanks for fast and good answers. Ive been going to the gym now for 2-3 months. Feels easier to get distance. My big problem is the form but was at a field now and might found something ive neglected. Realy liked this video and the last one "powerpocket". Subscribed now, should have done it earlier.
Jesus dude…that thumbnail😂Why you gotta do Gannon like that? He’s still a kid. The guy stretched his frame out first and now he’s gonna start building some muscle
Trebuchet had a tidbit in his video recently talking about how the disc effectively weighs 30 pounds as you pull it through on the backhand. Strength and explosiveness is needed to help make that move!
Can you tell us your strength levels in general, life max bench, deadlift, pull up amount and such. I have no idea what the numbers should be for an average person to reach 500+ ft. Also a tip for your grip problem from snowy Finland. Try handball glue in spray form, works great!
I spent all offseason working out and I went from 350 to 400 without working on my form at all. Then I stopped working out and slowly lost all the extra distance over the next year or so
For context I have always been active in sports, wrestling, skateboarding, hiking, and weightlifting. But now that I’m weight lifting and fondness stability, I’m sore the next day and that messes up my form and throwing. I would love to hear pros talk about managing soreness from weights and disc golf
@ for sure I have noticed if I decrease protein intake for a day or so I have more soreness. I am already getting about 130-160 gram per day but thanks for recommendation
form matters the most in the start of your disc golf journey. Once you learn to throw with a proper nose angel and limited power leaks like rounding I think form starts to deliver diminishing returns. After that i believe strength and athleticism are the most important factors for distance with athleticism outweighing strength. Youll get more bang for your buck doing exercises such as power cleans and mobility work than limiting yourself to the basic bodybuilding exercises.
If we are talking pure disc speed; technique obviously, limb length (longer whip = greater potential speed, emphasis on potential), flexibility for improved rotation and injury resistance, core strength (fast twitch muscles for acceleration, slow twitch for stability). I'm sure there's more people could add, and you don't necessarily need to have all of these in spades, short dudes with shorter arms can still bomb. But it certainly doesn't hurt to be built like Anthony Barela.
Muscles matter, but optimizing for speed probably helps more than optimizing for lifting strength (beyond the basic threshold of enough strength to keep you stable and avoid joint pain, anyway). In my group, the guy who's farthest ahead of the rest of us is primarily a tennis player, for example. The average power lifter probably wouldn't get particularly good launch speed, because they're training for heavy instead of fast.
I’ve spent a lot of time watching the online disc golf discourse about form and physical fitness does not come up often enough if ever at all. I’ve even been downvoted on reddit for bringing it up. Someone said “Gannon clearly doesn’t work out”. Easy fact check of his off season instagram posts shows that’s not true lol. Pro disc golfers are all athletes. They have varying wingspan and physical strength, but I think one thing thats universal is probably a strong core, flexibility, and strong glutes.
Many, many, many amateur men throw shorter off the tee than Paige. AB and Gannon and Calvin and Ricky and Eagle and Simon and Holyn Handley and twenty or thirty of the other top pros are tall and have a distinct advantage because their levers are longer which creates a better trebuchet to sling a disc. McBeth lifts weights to be strong but also has a massive natural talent for throwing mechanics. Strength training could do everyone good just to live to he a strong healthy adult into our later years. I'm 66 and play a lot of disc golf but I have been pretty active my whole life so when I started disc golfing three years ago I already had decades of overall conditioning from mountain biking, hiking, snowboarding, kiteboarding, skateboarding, kayaking. I don't get tired playing disc golf and I sometimes play two rounds back to back. Most of the disc gold injuries I see are from throwing forehand.
McBeth doesn’t have natural talent for throwing mechanisms lol. He practiced like anyone else and got better. Having a baseball background helps. But i feel like a lot of people throw out “natural talent” when in reality McBeth was obsessed with this and practiced an absurd amount.
Before watching; If you just play some its form to enjoy no pain. If you need to practice and play play play play and... play, you need muscles to offload wear and tear, just like you need to strengthen muscles to stable eg. joints already having injured yourself in our normal day to day life. And also endurance ofc, but strength is not directly coupled with endurance, else they would not use both words for different things ;)
coming of my reply to Tyler and herb: imagine a person with a heavy strong base (legs and hips and maybe lower torso) and then a wirey mid and upper torso. then a widish shoulder width with strong shoulders. Then the arms are really long with small light hands strong enough to grip the disc as light as possible :) ...... with PERFECT form :) somebody make an AI clip out of that lol
Explosiveness is more important than anything. Strength does almost nothing. I'm a big guy (over 6 feet tall and 230 pounds) and when I started in the late 90's I threw about 150 feet. I was very strong but not explosive.
I'm going with 80% form, 15% arm length, 5% strength. Let's think the other way: if you lost 10% strength how much would it affect you? Now take away 10% form which includes footwork, hip timing, reachback, grip, nose angle, spin, all 10% worse. It's not even close man. Just adding 3 degrees nose angle alone takes off like 50 feet.
As another short guy I did a deep dive on his form and he is wicked explosive. Everything that a lanky guy would do smooth, Emerson us full speed runs into and decels with a lot of hip mobility and frankly supreme faith in his joints
if the answer was form alone, then women could throw just as far as men. the science answer is simply how much muscle and form does it require to perform the amount of energy needed to move a disc from point a to point b. that answer is surprisingly more dependent on form than it is strength, you simply need the amount of strength to perform the proper form needed to satisfy the equation the reality is that all body types have different options to achieve this, whether it's super strong or super weak, the answer always remains = whatever it takes to satisfy the equation of moving the disc from point a to point b
@@TylerTiede taller doesnt mean long levers. but yes, usually taller people have longer arms RELATIVE speaking. but that does equate into larger forces and faster speeds. so as long as you have some kind of resistance in the muscle structure to use, longer and skinnier is faster. THINK about the whip, is the end of the whip fat and heavy or thin and light?
Nick Crush and Taylor "Disc Tay" are both trained athletes in track and absolutely destroy the discs. Of course with improved form, they can get even farther. But I think Gannon Buhr settles this debate. 2 years ago, he was throwing far for a pro in his skinny form. Then he started lifting and put on some weight and added even more distance.
"You can have all the strength you want, but if it comes out floppy, what's the point?" Like, A body builder isn't beating anyone in FPO. Yeah, they're is strong, but they don't know what to do with disc. Disc golf is also shot/disc selection, reading wind, gauging distances, etc. So, I believe you are only talking about distance and durability here.
Tiger Woods talks about strength helping him in his sport. If you want to do something for a long period of time I believe you do need to had strength and endurance training.
Strength helped him, but he also suffered long-term from overpractice and repetitive motion injuries. Obviously, Tiger did a lot right on top of being a generational talent, but most of us are hoping to be able to walk into our 60s.
i mean, you can probably just look at the steroid era of baseball when more strength and explosiveness was resulting in more dingers. the argument in this video seems to be for targeted and intentional training for disc golf, not necessarily that get jacked = throw far.
I have naturally strong fast twitch muscles and because of that I can push 500ft for on course distance and avg around the mid 70s for arm speed and my fastest recorded was 78.7. With all that being said. I have never spent any real time on strength training for my upper body and am constantly plagued with shoulder and elbow injuries. I plan on getting a gym membership this off season to try and be proactive in injury prevention. Before anyone cries internet distance. I’ve played for 15 years, distances were taken with rangefinders, and speed was with a tech disc
I think Gannon is one of the people who takes care of his body the best on tour. Ya he’s a stick but he puts on like 20 lbs of muscle every offseason, we just cant see it. He never gets injured and continues to increase his distance each year.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I enjoyed your thoughts. I started a delivery job a year ago and lost 25 pounds. Since then I changed very little in my form and am throwing about 50 feet further on my backhand. Forehand is about the same though.lol
I have played disc golf for 10 years. In my opinion, I have good form, and I’m a 950-rated player who can throw 400 feet consistently. This is the first year I’ve started implementing strength training. Last summer, while competing in local tournaments, I noticed that the players I was losing to often had athletic backgrounds in other sports, like ice hockey, and they looked like athletes. I also have a background in sports, but my physique didn’t compare to theirs. That’s when I realized that if I wanted to take my game to the next level, I needed to hit the gym.
Since then, I’ve focused on hypertrophy training, max strength training, explosive lifts like cleans and snatches, as well as plyometrics. Last week, I started consistently hitting 110 km/h (compared to last summer when I couldn’t even reach 100 km/h) with a tech disc. Living in Finland, I’ll have to wait about five months to see how this translates to actual distance throws.
My form has also improved. My head position is now on point, thanks to rotational cable exercises and landmine drills, which have strengthened my core and taught me to control my trunk rotation independently from my head. So, is it the form or the strength? I believe that, at some point, you can only improve your form by getting stronger. Strength allows you to put your body into positions that can handle the loads of a powerful throw.
For me, form is the foundation-you need to learn it first. But remember, all bodies are different, and they move differently. However, you can’t achieve perfect form without an athletic body, so strength is equally important. Ultimately, you can’t separate the two.
@@TerhoOjell-Järventausta extremely well said! Glad to hear about your progress :)
Thanks! And thank you for the great video and good luck with the off season training! ☺️ Btw fun fact, your surname Tiede means science in Finnish 😅
There's several components to a complete game. Form, strength, endurance, knowledge of your discs, hole strategy, and environmental conditions adaptability. And all of those become more difficult if you have neglected the bottom row of the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Add Flexibility to that. You mentioned injuries early on. And I think that flexibility is a big reason for it. Endurance is also extremely important and great point
100%
Great video! I've been thinking about this a lot myself. As I've gotten older, I've gotten weaker. I started developing a strength and endurance training plan for myself to work on that. I do believe that does help, and it's good to work on imbalances - even those caused playing this sport.
Great discussion! After a year of intentional strength and mobility training I simply feel more capable and balanced. I don't think it made me throw farther, yet I got stronger. My brace is a lot sturdier and I don't hurt as much when I have to push my limits. Fitness will raise your ceiling for sure, and it will certainly help with many other things outside of DG. Could just be all one big rebound effect (you feel better overall and are able to practice better so skill increases faster but you still must also practice your form to get there in the end) but there's many ways to look at it.
I think mobility and flexibility is also super important.
Limited mobility in my upper back has held me back (as far as distance driving goes) for years.
I started doing dead hangs every day about 8 months ago which is really improving my twisting mobility and I'm now throwing about 50 feet further than I ever have before. I'm 47 yrs old and I've been playing for 14 years.
I think mobility and form go hand in hand. I would say that the ideal ratio is something like 30% strength, 30% mobility, and 40% good form.
That being said, I also think that genetic build is the most important dictator of how far any given person will ultimately be able to throw.
Try the new all weather Jake wolf white out marvel. P2 clone but it really good hand feel helped me in winter a lot.
Also I have thrown further since exercising in April, but the correlation is I feel healthier. Also better stability and core, allowing me to access better form.
Your closing statement summed it up best, for a newer player form will matter most unless its a physical inability stopping them. conditioning will matter as well but you'll also condition as you play more. Once you have a solid form and move on past casual, play strength and speed training and endurance will matter more now. At that part you should be throwing over 400' controlled and form will net you less gains as well.
Great video topic. Here for it!
What type of strenght training do you think is the best? Wich muscle group is most important do you think?
@@roosbowlab4971 I would say most important is probably core. Training explosiveness by doing stuff like plyometrics and olympics lifts is likely the way to go.
Honestly though, the best program is whatever gets you into the gym. That’s why I don’t do any strength training too specific to disc golf, because that’s what I enjoy most in the gym.
@@TylerTiede Thanks for fast and good answers. Ive been going to the gym now for 2-3 months. Feels easier to get distance. My big problem is the form but was at a field now and might found something ive neglected. Realy liked this video and the last one "powerpocket". Subscribed now, should have done it earlier.
Jesus dude…that thumbnail😂Why you gotta do Gannon like that? He’s still a kid. The guy stretched his frame out first and now he’s gonna start building some muscle
@@marnoster 😂😂😂 I had to find one from when he was younger
Trebuchet had a tidbit in his video recently talking about how the disc effectively weighs 30 pounds as you pull it through on the backhand. Strength and explosiveness is needed to help make that move!
Great topic!
Can you tell us your strength levels in general, life max bench, deadlift, pull up amount and such. I have no idea what the numbers should be for an average person to reach 500+ ft.
Also a tip for your grip problem from snowy Finland. Try handball glue in spray form, works great!
@@putkipihvi324 squat around 225, bench 170, deadlift 330
I spent all offseason working out and I went from 350 to 400 without working on my form at all. Then I stopped working out and slowly lost all the extra distance over the next year or so
For context I have always been active in sports, wrestling, skateboarding, hiking, and weightlifting. But now that I’m weight lifting and fondness stability, I’m sore the next day and that messes up my form and throwing.
I would love to hear pros talk about managing soreness from weights and disc golf
More protein = less soreness
@ for sure I have noticed if I decrease protein intake for a day or so I have more soreness. I am already getting about 130-160 gram per day but thanks for recommendation
form matters the most in the start of your disc golf journey. Once you learn to throw with a proper nose angel and limited power leaks like rounding I think form starts to deliver diminishing returns. After that i believe strength and athleticism are the most important factors for distance with athleticism outweighing strength.
Youll get more bang for your buck doing exercises such as power cleans and mobility work than limiting yourself to the basic bodybuilding exercises.
If we are talking pure disc speed; technique obviously, limb length (longer whip = greater potential speed, emphasis on potential), flexibility for improved rotation and injury resistance, core strength (fast twitch muscles for acceleration, slow twitch for stability). I'm sure there's more people could add, and you don't necessarily need to have all of these in spades, short dudes with shorter arms can still bomb. But it certainly doesn't hurt to be built like Anthony Barela.
I only saw distance gains after starting explosive weight training. Although my form has improved
Muscles matter, but optimizing for speed probably helps more than optimizing for lifting strength (beyond the basic threshold of enough strength to keep you stable and avoid joint pain, anyway). In my group, the guy who's farthest ahead of the rest of us is primarily a tennis player, for example. The average power lifter probably wouldn't get particularly good launch speed, because they're training for heavy instead of fast.
I’ve spent a lot of time watching the online disc golf discourse about form and physical fitness does not come up often enough if ever at all. I’ve even been downvoted on reddit for bringing it up. Someone said “Gannon clearly doesn’t work out”. Easy fact check of his off season instagram posts shows that’s not true lol.
Pro disc golfers are all athletes. They have varying wingspan and physical strength, but I think one thing thats universal is probably a strong core, flexibility, and strong glutes.
Many, many, many amateur men throw shorter off the tee than Paige. AB and Gannon and Calvin and Ricky and Eagle and Simon and Holyn Handley and twenty or thirty of the other top pros are tall and have a distinct advantage because their levers are longer which creates a better trebuchet to sling a disc. McBeth lifts weights to be strong but also has a massive natural talent for throwing mechanics. Strength training could do everyone good just to live to he a strong healthy adult into our later years. I'm 66 and play a lot of disc golf but I have been pretty active my whole life so when I started disc golfing three years ago I already had decades of overall conditioning from mountain biking, hiking, snowboarding, kiteboarding, skateboarding, kayaking. I don't get tired playing disc golf and I sometimes play two rounds back to back. Most of the disc gold injuries I see are from throwing forehand.
McBeth doesn’t have natural talent for throwing mechanisms lol. He practiced like anyone else and got better. Having a baseball background helps. But i feel like a lot of people throw out “natural talent” when in reality McBeth was obsessed with this and practiced an absurd amount.
Many many many many many many amateur men throw farther than 95% of the fpo field at worlds 2024
Before watching;
If you just play some its form to enjoy no pain.
If you need to practice and play play play play and... play, you need muscles to offload wear and tear, just like you need to strengthen muscles to stable eg. joints already having injured yourself in our normal day to day life. And also endurance ofc, but strength is not directly coupled with endurance, else they would not use both words for different things ;)
I mean if you really want a number, it’s closer to 80/20 with form being way more important.
coming of my reply to Tyler and herb:
imagine a person with a heavy strong base (legs and hips and maybe lower torso) and then a wirey mid and upper torso. then a widish shoulder width with strong shoulders. Then the arms are really long with small light hands strong enough to grip the disc as light as possible :) ...... with PERFECT form :) somebody make an AI clip out of that lol
Explosiveness is more important than anything. Strength does almost nothing. I'm a big guy (over 6 feet tall and 230 pounds) and when I started in the late 90's I threw about 150 feet. I was very strong but not explosive.
I'm going with 80% form, 15% arm length, 5% strength.
Let's think the other way: if you lost 10% strength how much would it affect you? Now take away 10% form which includes footwork, hip timing, reachback, grip, nose angle, spin, all 10% worse. It's not even close man. Just adding 3 degrees nose angle alone takes off like 50 feet.
Paige threw 541ft in a Max distance contest.. That's impressive for anyone.. And she's 100lbs.. But what do I know, i can't throw over 180ft😢😢😢
It has to be like 90% technique when Emerson Keith can dust every one of your friends who thinks he has a cannon.
As another short guy I did a deep dive on his form and he is wicked explosive. Everything that a lanky guy would do smooth, Emerson us full speed runs into and decels with a lot of hip mobility and frankly supreme faith in his joints
if the answer was form alone, then women could throw just as far as men.
the science answer is simply how much muscle and form does it require to perform the amount of energy needed to move a disc from point a to point b. that answer is surprisingly more dependent on form than it is strength, you simply need the amount of strength to perform the proper form needed to satisfy the equation
the reality is that all body types have different options to achieve this, whether it's super strong or super weak, the answer always remains = whatever it takes to satisfy the equation of moving the disc from point a to point b
@@herbstomp003 Generally speaking, I think being taller means strength is less important. or more specifically having a big wingspan.
@@TylerTiede taller doesnt mean long levers. but yes, usually taller people have longer arms RELATIVE speaking. but that does equate into larger forces and faster speeds. so as long as you have some kind of resistance in the muscle structure to use, longer and skinnier is faster. THINK about the whip, is the end of the whip fat and heavy or thin and light?
Nick Crush and Taylor "Disc Tay" are both trained athletes in track and absolutely destroy the discs. Of course with improved form, they can get even farther. But I think Gannon Buhr settles this debate. 2 years ago, he was throwing far for a pro in his skinny form. Then he started lifting and put on some weight and added even more distance.
"You can have all the strength you want, but if it comes out floppy, what's the point?" Like, A body builder isn't beating anyone in FPO. Yeah, they're is strong, but they don't know what to do with disc. Disc golf is also shot/disc selection, reading wind, gauging distances, etc. So, I believe you are only talking about distance and durability here.
I think strength affects backhand more than forehand. Form affects forehand more than backhand
@@adeeperclean7006 I would think the opposite.
Tiger Woods talks about strength helping him in his sport. If you want to do something for a long period of time I believe you do need to had strength and endurance training.
Strength helped him, but he also suffered long-term from overpractice and repetitive motion injuries. Obviously, Tiger did a lot right on top of being a generational talent, but most of us are hoping to be able to walk into our 60s.
80% timing, 15% form, 5% strength imo
Form and speed. Strength isn’t nearly as important as speed
@@GrantHoldahl more strong = more go fast
i mean, you can probably just look at the steroid era of baseball when more strength and explosiveness was resulting in more dingers. the argument in this video seems to be for targeted and intentional training for disc golf, not necessarily that get jacked = throw far.
@@maxray29 yeah I think that’s the part a lot of people miss
Definitely not accurate regarding injuries per Capita vs contact/team sports
I have naturally strong fast twitch muscles and because of that I can push 500ft for on course distance and avg around the mid 70s for arm speed and my fastest recorded was 78.7. With all that being said. I have never spent any real time on strength training for my upper body and am constantly plagued with shoulder and elbow injuries. I plan on getting a gym membership this off season to try and be proactive in injury prevention.
Before anyone cries internet distance. I’ve played for 15 years, distances were taken with rangefinders, and speed was with a tech disc
Look at silas and ezra..seems they throw the same distance….
I think Gannon is one of the people who takes care of his body the best on tour. Ya he’s a stick but he puts on like 20 lbs of muscle every offseason, we just cant see it. He never gets injured and continues to increase his distance each year.